Why is LED lighting disappearing?
Liron
instances where LED lamps were relaced with more conventional lighting.
What's going on?
Last December/January I went on a cruise, and the ship had replaced its
halogen spotlights in a particular hallway between cabins with LED lamps. I
think that all the other hallways where the cabins were had similar LED
lamps. Six months later I was on the same ship again and in the same
hallway the LED lamps were gone, replaced by more conventional halogen spot
lamps. There were halogen lamps in all the other hallways between cabins
that I visited. There was still a LED lamp in my cabin though, as there was
last time, although it was a different cabin.
Also, my local shopping centre had a strip of LED lights in the new section
that would provide indirect lighting by illuminating the ceiling with
different colours. Today I went back to the shopping centre and the LEDs
were replaced with flourescent lighting.
What's happening here?
Liron
RickR
LED products did not live up to expectations, whether in light quality
or quantity, or merely product life.
We are still quite early in the development of LED for general
lighting and there are many lessons to learn.
---
RickR
Wes
news:VKQmm.15035$ze1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
In my opinion, there is a TON of LED in the market right now, and sadly the
majority of it is "poor" at best. Most of the junk chips being used are
producing bluish light, not nearly as bright as claimed, and we're yet to
see if it last anywhere near as long as those sources claim. But since much
of that product is without an adequate heat sink (or method to keep the heat
away from the diodes) there is virtually no way possible to have the claimed
life.
Good quality LED light DOES exist, but it isn't cheap and it utilizes
premium grade diodes from a select few sources.
As a rep for one of the truly outstanding manufacturers, one of the issues
we face daily is the effort required to explain away the specifiers or end
users exposure to the "crap" LED they seen in home centers etc... It's
already gained a poor reputation amongst those that have "just enough
information to be dangerous"....
In my opinion, LED is here to stay, and eventually as manufacturing costs
decrease, it will be affordable to the masses. We're just not there yet....
Wes
TKM
"Wes" <we...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:UtednQn-Z7XZ2wHX...@giganews.com...
I agree. As one of the organizers of the Lighting for Tomorrow Residential
Luminaire Design Competition, I can tell you that we saw as many LED
luminaires submitted this year as in previous years and were surprised since
luminaire sales (mostly because of slow residential construction) were down.
There were also numerous screw-in products that tried to mimic incandescent
lamps which we did not see last year.
But, performance matters and the number of good-quality, high-performance
LED products is still quite limited and costs are not coming down very
rapidly. There's serious competition among LED and conventional downlight
products and a few MR and PAR lamp replacements though.
Terry McGowan
Jeff Jonas
>> instances where LED lamps were relaced with more conventional lighting.
>> What's going on?
>In my opinion, there is a TON of LED in the market right now, and sadly the
>majority of it is "poor" at best.
A movie theatre near me (Linden NJ) seems to have used LED under plastic strips
for a neon-look outside the theatre.
Large sections are already dead, others have chunks missing.
Genuine neon tubing would've been better.
AA
It ain`t a new problem
Now lighting has moved up the agenda beginning to see the opportunist
heavy sales guns who used to do conservatories,kitchens, double
glazing, photocopiers , fire extinguishers etc move into the ripe
Green Energy Efficient Lighting market
...juicy....
specially with all this legislation meaning that all your lightbulbs
are belong to us , all your lighting is going to be outlawed, you`ll
never get replacement lamps , we can do a great package , easy terms.
Finance payments probably last longer than the installation.
Hype did surround everyone for a while , requirement for LED products
to be marked Class 1 LED Product under EN60825 , the laser labelling
standard, was quietly dropped when the egg heads realised power
density was nowhere near a serious hazard.
Lot of overselling of product that wasn`t yet ready...Color Kinetics
ears should be burning.
Adam
Victor Roberts
As others have said or implied, many, or even most, LED
lighting products have been grossly oversold. The light
output of most LED lighting products is far below the
manufacturer's specifications, and the life of many products
is far shorter than claimed.
The staff for the cruise ship may have originally believed
the claims made by the company that sold them the lighting,
and then realized, after actual use, that the claims were
exaggerated.
The DOE runs an LED product testing program called Caliper,
and they have published a lot of interesting data; much of
which shows that many LED lighting product manufacturers
overstate their performance. The Caliper data also
identifies those LED products that really do meet their
claims. See:
http://www1.eere.energy.gov/buildings/ssl/caliper.html
--
Vic Roberts
http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
To reply via e-mail:
replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address
or use e-mail address listed at the Web site.
This information is provided for educational purposes only.
It may not be used in any publication or posted on any Web
site without written permission.
Nail wang
(50000-100000hours) because heat sink and chip qanlity, but it are
able to help saving energy by 70%,it says it only takes only 1-2 year
to get the cost back,
On 9月7日, 上午12时19分, Victor Roberts <x...@lighting-research.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 14:03:33 GMT, "Liron"
>
>
>
>
>
> <nom...@sick.of.getting.spam> wrote:
> >LEDlightingis supposed to be the way of the future. Yet I've seen two
> >instances whereLEDlamps were relaced with more conventionallighting.
> >What's going on?
>
> >Last December/January I went on a cruise, and the ship had replaced its
> >halogen spotlights in a particular hallway between cabins withLEDlamps. I
> >think that all the other hallways where the cabins were had similarLED
> >lamps. Six months later I was on the same ship again and in the same
> >hallway theLEDlamps were gone, replaced by more conventional halogen spot
> >lamps. There were halogen lamps in all the other hallways between cabins
> >that I visited. There was still aLEDlamp in my cabin though, as there was
> >last time, although it was a different cabin.
>
> >Also, my local shopping centre had a strip ofLEDlights in the new section
> >that would provide indirectlightingby illuminating the ceiling with
> >different colours. Today I went back to the shopping centre and the LEDs
> >were replaced with flourescentlighting.
>
> >What's happening here?
>
> >Liron
>
> As others have said or implied, many, or even most,LEDlightingproducts have been grossly oversold. The light
> output of mostLEDlightingproducts is far below the
> manufacturer's specifications, and the life of many products
> is far shorter than claimed.
>
> The staff for the cruise ship may have originally believed
> the claims made by the company that sold them thelighting,
> and then realized, after actual use, that the claims were
> exaggerated.
>
> The DOE runs anLEDproduct testing program called Caliper,
> and they have published a lot of interesting data; much of
> which shows that manyLEDlightingproduct manufacturers
> overstate their performance. The Caliper data also
> identifies thoseLEDproducts that really do meet their
> claims. See:
>
> http://www1.eere.energy.gov/buildings/ssl/caliper.html
>
> --
> Vic Robertshttp://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
> To reply via e-mail:
> replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address
> or use e-mail address listed at the Web site.
>
> This information is provided for educational purposes only.
> It may not be used in any publication or posted on any Web
> site without written permission.- 隐藏被引用文字 -
>
> - 显示引用的文字 -
Jeff Engel
time to check in with some interesting comments. Did anybody's projects
get fouled up by the bulb ban?
Thomas Paterson
I think that there's another factor potentially at play. You may have
seen pilot studies. Working with some big resort chains, we did pilot
studies 24-30 months ago, which ruled out LEDs at the time. Now we're
rolling them out in some of those locations. Sometimes a pilot study
results in a negative result, and the status quo is returned. I
suspect that happened on the cruise ship - it is certainly consistent
with what we saw with a cruise ship client recently.
Thomas Paterson
http://www.luxpopuli.com
Liron
Liron
"Thomas Paterson" <t_p_pa...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:310804f6-9e80-4775...@t11g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
Thomas Lee
headlights. So much huha about this light source.... but need patience
n time.....
The lumen package from LED lamps is still quite awhile to go, maybe
require another five years for it to achieve double its present
efficacy level ( efficiency light output against power input of LED
lamp ) of maybe 105 lumens per watt .
Majority of LED lamps are used in facade lighting, i.e general
illumination with pre-programmed DMX-controlled lighting patterns
change of a building.
Of course, for some application, LED lamps are being retrofit for
conventional halogen lamp source.
Heat sink dissipation is still a major area of concern in the context
of low-cost LED products and the problematic situation comes after the
completion of a project. After sales support will then be severly
tested as the symptoms pop up now and then.
So, what you have seen is the re-replacement of LED lights which is
not surprising at all as apparently it does not function as
appropriately as the conventional light source ( Application
Function ). It does not possess the light intensity of the MR16 12V
50W halogen dichroic lamp and maybe found not suitable later.
Some eight years ago, I recalled an upgarding project using LED
lighting in a Food Centre in S`pore and they have to changed it to
conventional PLC compact fluorsecent downlights as the lighting level
was way too low........
LED lighting now is the craze as the average burning hours of life
time is supposed to be 20,000 to 50,0000 hours..... but how
performance-correct it is, time will tell........Quality and average
burning hours ( lifetime ) will defintely be an issue of concern for
most brands, I suppose.....
Many are not willing to pay for the good quality ones, so all have to
live with the lower ones or average ones....
Cheers,
Thomas Lee
Victor Roberts
have a few comments and questions.
On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 15:24:55 -0800, pcf...@upwardaccess.com
wrote:
>A lot has changed (for the better IMHO) with LED based lighting products in the last year. Most of the
>innovation has been from China from my observations anyway. The things that the engineering and manufacturing
>teams are continually trying to improve upon are 1) the dispersation angle of the available LEDs are too
>narrow, and 2) the LED light output per chip needs enhanced, plus 3) incorporating changes to help resolve or
>at least improve on issues from #1 without increasing costs to prospective buyers. A possible 4) might be:
>Making "plug and play" LED products of a wide variety to allow potential displacement of the older
>incandescant, CFLs and T-XX fluorescents as they fail and need replacing.
Testing done by the US DoE under their CALIPER program has
shown that LED "replacement" lamps almost always perform
poorly, and the best LED-based lamps are those in fixtures
designed especially for LEDs. One key issue driving this is
the need to remove waste heat from LEDs first via conduction
and then via either conduction or convection; while
incandescent lamps can utilize radiation, and fluorescent
lamps can use convection directly. Existing fixtures have
no means to remove heat via conduction.
Also, I have seen no commercially available LED-based lamps
that are more efficient than good T5 or T8 fluorescent
lamps.
>Of course the LED replacement has
>to be as bright as what it replaces, which wasn't the case very often not too long ago but now you can get
>units that sellers will gaurantee performance and reliability for up to 2 years. You have to pay attention to
>the light output per LED and how many of these are included per replacement unit.
Have you validated any of these "guarantees" via
measurements per IESNA LM-79-08?
>I just purchased 2 LED floods that contained 78 LEDs per bulb, anf the LEDs were "3 chip" units that contain 3
>LEDs (white in my case...). I have seen up to 5 chip individual LEDs, plus there are also "Luxeon Clones"
>that get more output by driving the chips harder and building a heat sink into the product to dissapate the
>heat. The floods I bought were clearly marked to be equivilent to a 60 watt halogen in terms of light output,
>in practice they seem to be as bright as the others only at a higher color temp. They are noticably "whiter",
>ok for my application and I could have purchased a "warm white" unit for roughly the same cost as I recall.
>All of the replacements used 110v a.c. although 220v a.c. were available also. The pair cost me 23.00$
>including shipping.
I notice you said "seem to be as bright as the others [i.e.
halogen]" Don't you think that the comparison would be more
useful if it were based on an actual measurement using a
light meter, rather than a casual observation?
Also, your LED-based lamps were "noticeably 'whiter'"
because high CCT LEDs have higher efficacy than lower CCT
LEDs. I understand that you can purchase the lower CCT
variety at about the same cost, but do they generate the
same amount of light? Probably not.
>To summarize, it seems to me that the "LED Lighting Industry" which includes the big name corporations may
>have kept their LED R&D going but no real emphasis on taking the narkets from competing technologies (maybe
>because they already have older technology products heavily entrenched in those markets???). However, those
>companies with no "conflict of interest" due to being a manufacturer of competing technologies are continuing
>to develop at a rate much more focused most notably the chinese companies. These have evolved from a simple
>manufacturer of copycat discreet LEDs to developing necessary technologies that allow them the ability to
>compete and sometimes offer discreet LEDs with enhancements not available elsewhere, and using these to offer
>higher level products that can perform as well as if not better than the older technologies. The slightly
>higher entry level prices are easily returned to the buyer in energy savings over the life of the product.
Slightly higher entry level prices? I have yet to see an
LED-based replacement lamp with validated performance that
is less than 2X the cost of the "traditional" lamp it is
designed to replace, and the cost multiplier is often more
like 3X. The relatively small energy savings, if any, at
least compared to fluorescent or metal halide lamps, creates
very long payback periods, sometimes 10 years or more.
The only exception are when the LED system produces
significantly less light than the traditional system, and
the designers declare that "less is enough;" or the new LED
system is compared to an old, depreciated traditional system
that happens to be in place. I do not dispute that many
applications could be designed with lower light levels, but
an honest comparison would include a new traditional system
at the same light levels as the proposed LED system.
>The
>consumer can buy discreet LEDs, LED replacements for direct replacement of older technologies, and even
>complete products like desk lamps, trouble lights, flashlights, etc., from the same supplier via ebay using
>paypal. This evolution has transpired mostly in the last year or less. Somehow, I get the feeling that
>LEDs, LED technology development, and LED products are poised to capture the ever expanding lighting market
>space. regards, Joe.
Last year? In any case, LEDs have captured "color" light
applications such as signs and signals, and a niche market
of low output, mostly directional "white" sources. They are
a good fit for these applications, and I use LED flashlights
& bedside reading lamps, and have acquired a Cree LR6.
However, it remains to be seen whether or not LED-based
lamps are cost effective in the general lighting market that
is dominated by relatively high output fluorescent and metal
halide lamps.
[snip]
--
Vic Roberts
http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com