Manifold for mixing MIG gas
TmcGroup
CO2 tank and tailor your own MIG gas?
The cost of the gasses would be less and you can fool around with just about
any Argon/CO2 mix you can think of.
Thanks!
Chuck
Los Angeles
brad
using a "Y" and not a "T". A T will prevent good consistent mixing of the
gases. Both flowmeters used MUST be of the same pressure output. Most have a
50 psi outlet,but there are 30 psi and 80 psi outlet versions out there. If
two unlike pressure units are used,the mixture will always favor the gas
with the higher pressure flowmeter on it and, again,prevent consistent
results. Good Luck-brad
TmcGroup wrote in message <19991003184956...@ng-ce1.aol.com>...
JP
Sorry I don't know the answer to your question, but it is a great
question. Doing the same thing would be great for me as well. Want a
nice bead and no spatter, heavy on Argon, want penetration, roll on
the CO2, want to weld Al, use Argon straight....I like it. I hope you
don't mind if I jump in and add a few more questions!
1) How is the manifold physically made, I.E. valve types and and
piping to keep cross mixing into cylinders.
2) How do you calculate/adjust gas ratio percentages (as in
Ar/CO2-75/25)...by using 2 flow meters?
Thanks in advance,
JP
herman...@my-deja.com
you know gas is mixed properly and at what ratio it is mixed at. It is
adjustable to whatever mix you want, which allows you to do some
experimentation and also have repeatable results. My opinion of the
homemade mixer, while not always popular, is that you really cannot be
sure if it is getting mixed completely or what the mix is. If you are
trying to follow a procedure or use a flux cored wire that calls for a
75/25 mix, are you really sure what you are getting? My experience with
the homemade ones is that guys also tend to waste a lot of gas.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Roger Duncan
pressure upstream of a orifices the LP pressure gage reads flow for
that size orifice. The second type has a regulator that supplies a
fixed pressure to a needle valve and the flow is read by the height of
a ball in a tapered tube. The second type is what Brad is talking
about.
Keeping the regulated pressure equal is helpful. On commercial mixers
you set reduced pressures with hand a loader that sets pressures on
dome loaded regulators for the supply gases mixed. Then the gases goes
through heat exchangers to equalize temperature and next to micrometer
needle valves that are preset for gas mix by a stting table. The
needle valve are then fome tuned to get desired analyzed mix. Brad's
just setting the flow meter for desired percent of flow should be Ok
for most welding mixes with out wasting too much gas. To get mix
accuracy need to analyze.
A way of improving the mixing of the combined gases is to use a mixer.
Cole Palmer sells SS mixers that fit into tubes. It basically consists
of a flat strip of SS that hat has been cut across in the center of
the strip only to form posts. Each post in the center of the strip is
then formed and twisted so the gas flowing down the tube past the
mixer has to zigzag down the tube with a lot of turbulence. This is a
cheap practical mixer for Brads system. Even a spring inserted into a
hose would help. In ral world use probably not needed.
To prevent contamination, even if check valves are used, never let
supply cylinder pressure get less than 200 psi greater than regulator
reduced pressure setting or whatever is easy to read on your gages.
Another mixing method is by pressure into a cylinder. Needs a booster
pump to be real practical. Still should analize if you want to really
know what you have.
On Sun, 3 Oct 1999 23:14:19 -0400, "brad" <br...@microconnect.net>
wrote:
>Yes it can be done. Two things to keep in mind. The two gases MUST be mixed
>using a "Y" and not a "T". A T will prevent good consistent mixing of the
>gases. Both flowmeters used MUST be of the same pressure output. Most have a
>50 psi outlet,but there are 30 psi and 80 psi outlet versions out there. If
>two unlike pressure units are used,the mixture will always favor the gas
>with the higher pressure flowmeter on it and, again,prevent consistent
>results. Good Luck-brad
>TmcGroup wrote in message <19991003184956...@ng-ce1.aol.com>...
czr...@powerup.com.au
>Is it possible to hook up a manifold to a straight argon tank and a
>straight CO2 tank and tailor your own MIG gas?
>The cost of the gasses would be less and you can fool around with just
>about any Argon/CO2 mix you can think of.
It's really only economical for larger quantities but it does depend on
whether you can get your hands on the hardware cheaply.
The regulators designed for the job are reletively insensitive to the
actual manifold pressure. You also need to fit valves to prevent back
filling once a tank is nearing empty.
The larger the manifold the better, but this leads to waste as you need to
purge at the beginning and end of everyday and whenever you change gas
mix.
--
Regards,
Chris.
-----------------------------------------------------------
czr...@powerup.com.au <Chris Robinson>
Brisbane, Australia
-----------------------------------------------------------
Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps
it from betting on people. (W C Fields)
Ernie Leimkuhler
> I prefer a mixer, Smith equipment sells one, about $1000.00, and then
> you know gas is mixed properly and at what ratio it is mixed at. It is
> adjustable to whatever mix you want, which allows you to do some
> experimentation and also have repeatable results. My opinion of the
> homemade mixer, while not always popular, is that you really cannot be
> sure if it is getting mixed completely or what the mix is. If you are
> trying to follow a procedure or use a flux cored wire that calls for a
> 75/25 mix, are you really sure what you are getting? My experience with
> the homemade ones is that guys also tend to waste a lot of gas.
>
>
Well I have ben using a homade mixer for about 5 years and it works great.
I have it on my TIG with an Argon tank and a Helium tank.
Yes, I agree, the exact mix ratio is a guess, but it only cost me about
$50 to put it together and is a vast improvement over single gasses or
expensive mix tanks.
I can also use the mixer for MIG so I can mix in a little Helium with a
Argon / CO2 tank for stainless or strange steels.
If I was welding space shuttles I could see spending $1000 on a mixer, but
for chandeliers and furniture, no way.
The most important part about making your own manifold is to include one
way valves so you can't contaminate your tanks with the other gasses.
--
STAGESMITH - Custom Metal Fabrication - Renton, WA, US
"Apple Computer may have screwed up a few times over the years, but at
least they knew the century was going to end", Douglas Adams on Y2K
brad
enterprise,your mix is quite accurate. I learned this mixer trick from a
major manufacturer of aluminum products(using argon and helium) and little
was done in this shop besides major code work! Remember your flow will be
the combination of the two flowmeters. With that in mind your ratios are
very easy to figure.Good Luck-brad
herman...@my-deja.com wrote in message <7ta5h3$s4h$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>In article <37f81ab2...@news.remarq.com>,
> J...@noemail.com (JP) wrote:
>> Hi Chuck,
>>
>> Sorry I don't know the answer to your question, but it is a great
>> question. Doing the same thing would be great for me as well. Want a
>> nice bead and no spatter, heavy on Argon, want penetration, roll on
>> the CO2, want to weld Al, use Argon straight....I like it. I hope you
>> don't mind if I jump in and add a few more questions!
>>
>> 1) How is the manifold physically made, I.E. valve types and and
>> piping to keep cross mixing into cylinders.
>>
>> 2) How do you calculate/adjust gas ratio percentages (as in
>> Ar/CO2-75/25)...by using 2 flow meters?
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>> JP
>>
>> tmcg...@aol.com (TmcGroup) wrote:
>>
>> straight
>> ">"CO2 tank and tailor your own MIG gas?
>> ">"
>> ">"The cost of the gasses would be less and you can fool around with
>> just about
>> ">"any Argon/CO2 mix you can think of.
>> ">"
>> ">"
>> ">"Chuck
>> ">"Los Angeles
>>
>I prefer a mixer, Smith equipment sells one, about $1000.00, and then
>you know gas is mixed properly and at what ratio it is mixed at. It is
>adjustable to whatever mix you want, which allows you to do some
>experimentation and also have repeatable results. My opinion of the
>homemade mixer, while not always popular, is that you really cannot be
>sure if it is getting mixed completely or what the mix is. If you are
>trying to follow a procedure or use a flux cored wire that calls for a
>75/25 mix, are you really sure what you are getting? My experience with
>the homemade ones is that guys also tend to waste a lot of gas.
>
>
Robert Galloway
dentist uses a mixer to proportion nitrous oxide and oxygen in a wide
range of mixes and it seems to work well for his application.
bob g.
Robert Galloway
surplus medical equipment outlets for flowmeters. Medical flowmeters used
on wall O2 outlets should assure the correct proportion. The adequacy of
mixing should be assured by designing some turbulence into the post-mixer
flow path. No?
bob g.
On Mon, 4 Oct 1999 herman...@my-deja.com wrote:
> In article <37f81ab2...@news.remarq.com>,
> J...@noemail.com (JP) wrote:
> > Hi Chuck,
> >
> > Sorry I don't know the answer to your question, but it is a great
> > question. Doing the same thing would be great for me as well. Want a
> > nice bead and no spatter, heavy on Argon, want penetration, roll on
> > the CO2, want to weld Al, use Argon straight....I like it. I hope you
> > don't mind if I jump in and add a few more questions!
> >
> > 1) How is the manifold physically made, I.E. valve types and and
> > piping to keep cross mixing into cylinders.
> >
> > 2) How do you calculate/adjust gas ratio percentages (as in
> > Ar/CO2-75/25)...by using 2 flow meters?
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> > JP
> >
> > tmcg...@aol.com (TmcGroup) wrote:
> >
> > ">"Is it possible to hook up a manifold to a straight argon tank and a
> > straight
> > ">"CO2 tank and tailor your own MIG gas?
> > ">"
> > ">"The cost of the gasses would be less and you can fool around with
> > just about
> > ">"any Argon/CO2 mix you can think of.
> > ">"
> > ">"Thanks!
> > ">"
> > ">"Chuck
> > ">"Los Angeles
> >