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Confused on procedure.. 3G cert test.
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Stuart Wheaton
Feb 4, 2012, 8:34:45 AM2/4/12
to
I will probably be testing for 3G and 4G Mig certs in the near future.
I've been welding for many years, but the majority of the work in our
shop is 16ga. tube, so the idea of 3/8" plate is a little outside of my
comfort zone.
I was looking at the following website, which seems quite helpful, but I
cannot figure out what the guy is talking about when he gets to the
section about preparing the coupons for testing...
http://www.gowelding.org/3G_MIG_Welding_Certification.html
The root ought to be fused to the backing bar, right? Yet he talks
about splitting it off with a chisel? Can anyone clear up the procedure?
Also, does anyone have experience with the Hobart program in Troy, Ohio?
This is the closest AWS facility to us.
Thank you for your help.
Stuart
I've been welding for many years, but the majority of the work in our
shop is 16ga. tube, so the idea of 3/8" plate is a little outside of my
comfort zone.
I was looking at the following website, which seems quite helpful, but I
cannot figure out what the guy is talking about when he gets to the
section about preparing the coupons for testing...
http://www.gowelding.org/3G_MIG_Welding_Certification.html
The root ought to be fused to the backing bar, right? Yet he talks
about splitting it off with a chisel? Can anyone clear up the procedure?
Also, does anyone have experience with the Hobart program in Troy, Ohio?
This is the closest AWS facility to us.
Thank you for your help.
Stuart
Snag
Feb 4, 2012, 9:41:17 AM2/4/12
to
Stuart Wheaton wrote:
> I will probably be testing for 3G and 4G Mig certs in the near future.
>
> I've been welding for many years, but the majority of the work in our
> shop is 16ga. tube, so the idea of 3/8" plate is a little outside of
> my comfort zone.
>
> I was looking at the following website, which seems quite helpful,
> but I cannot figure out what the guy is talking about when he gets to
> the section about preparing the coupons for testing...
>
> http://www.gowelding.org/3G_MIG_Welding_Certification.html
>
> The root ought to be fused to the backing bar, right? Yet he talks
> about splitting it off with a chisel? Can anyone clear up the
> procedure?
Did you miss the part where he ground the center of the backer bar off
> I will probably be testing for 3G and 4G Mig certs in the near future.
>
> I've been welding for many years, but the majority of the work in our
> shop is 16ga. tube, so the idea of 3/8" plate is a little outside of
> my comfort zone.
>
> I was looking at the following website, which seems quite helpful,
> but I cannot figure out what the guy is talking about when he gets to
> the section about preparing the coupons for testing...
>
> http://www.gowelding.org/3G_MIG_Welding_Certification.html
>
> The root ought to be fused to the backing bar, right? Yet he talks
> about splitting it off with a chisel? Can anyone clear up the
> procedure?
"without penetrating the test coupon" ?
>
> Stuart
--
Snag
Learning keeps
you young !
Stuart Wheaton
Feb 4, 2012, 11:18:51 AM2/4/12
to
bar without nicking the stuff below it. Is this a test of grinding
skill or welding skill? What does the stuff about marking the root
penetration refer to? I weld a lot, but the grinding needs in my world
are taking down welds so that the covering can lie flat when it is
screwed on. You don't put a backer bar in 1x1 16 ga tube...
Part of the trouble is that the material we will be working with post
cert will still be mostly 1x1 box tube up to 11 ga. with some 1.5"
schedule 40 pipe and occasional plate gussets, the pipe is not for
pressure, just for structure or appearance. Once I get the cert, I will
never need to weld 2 pieces of 3/8" plate again.
Stuart
Snag
Feb 4, 2012, 3:08:26 PM2/4/12
to
like 45 years ago in high school/from my dad . Most of my welds look "OK" ,
but I seriously doubt they'd pass and kind of cert procedure . The one thing
I learned rather quickly is that a MIG welder will make a weld that looks
great but didn't penetrate . I make sure that I see fusion on both edges ...
even if it leaves a slight undercut .
But then I'm not welding man-rated stuff.
Ernie Leimkuhler
Feb 10, 2012, 4:15:26 AM2/10/12
to
As a Certified Weld Inspector I can clarify your situation.
The most common MIG tests are
1 inch plate v-groove with a backing bar
3/8 inch v-groove with a backing bar
and thick-to-thin i.e. 16 ga T-welded to a piece of 3/8 inch plate
There are no standard square tube or rectangular tube tests for MIG.
However any CWI can create one for a company.
The most common test given is the 3/8 inch plate test with a backing
bar.
This test qualifies you for up to 3/4 inch steel.
By doing the 3G (vertical up) and the 4G (overhead) you are qualified
for all positions (1,2,3 and 4) with Groove or Fillet welds.
When the coupon is cut from the test plate the small square of backing
bar must be removed.
It can be sawed off, ground off or ground and chiseled as long as no
harm is done to the remainder of the test coupon.
The weld metal above the plate surface on the face of the weld is also
removed.
The edges are smoothed and slightly rounded so you are left with two 1
inch wide, 3/8 inch thick and 6 inch long test coupon.
One is bent towards the face of the weld and one is bent towards the
root of the weld
As long as no discontinuity 1/8" or larger is visible after bending, on
both coupons, the test weld passes.
In article <jgjlp7$d59$1...@speranza.aioe.org>, Stuart Wheaton
The most common MIG tests are
1 inch plate v-groove with a backing bar
3/8 inch v-groove with a backing bar
and thick-to-thin i.e. 16 ga T-welded to a piece of 3/8 inch plate
There are no standard square tube or rectangular tube tests for MIG.
However any CWI can create one for a company.
The most common test given is the 3/8 inch plate test with a backing
bar.
This test qualifies you for up to 3/4 inch steel.
By doing the 3G (vertical up) and the 4G (overhead) you are qualified
for all positions (1,2,3 and 4) with Groove or Fillet welds.
When the coupon is cut from the test plate the small square of backing
bar must be removed.
It can be sawed off, ground off or ground and chiseled as long as no
harm is done to the remainder of the test coupon.
The weld metal above the plate surface on the face of the weld is also
removed.
The edges are smoothed and slightly rounded so you are left with two 1
inch wide, 3/8 inch thick and 6 inch long test coupon.
One is bent towards the face of the weld and one is bent towards the
root of the weld
As long as no discontinuity 1/8" or larger is visible after bending, on
both coupons, the test weld passes.
In article <jgjlp7$d59$1...@speranza.aioe.org>, Stuart Wheaton
Phil Kangas
Feb 12, 2012, 1:33:13 PM2/12/12
to
Hard wire MIG, without pulse arc, vertical and
overhead?
aahhh huh .... this I gotta see ..... ;>)}
"Ernie Leimkuhler" <er...@stagesmith.com> wrote in
message
news:100220120115262666%er...@stagesmith.com...
overhead?
aahhh huh .... this I gotta see ..... ;>)}
"Ernie Leimkuhler" <er...@stagesmith.com> wrote in
message
news:100220120115262666%er...@stagesmith.com...
Ernie Leimkuhler
Feb 12, 2012, 5:58:21 PM2/12/12
to
The trick is to run the machine very low with a small wire.
16 - 18 volts
160 - 200 inches per minute wire
0.035 inch ER70S-6 wire
In production welding the machine is usually set much hotter, but for
testing we go low and slow.
In article <jh90lc$jc0$1...@dont-email.me>, Phil Kangas
16 - 18 volts
160 - 200 inches per minute wire
0.035 inch ER70S-6 wire
In production welding the machine is usually set much hotter, but for
testing we go low and slow.
In article <jh90lc$jc0$1...@dont-email.me>, Phil Kangas
Phil Kangas
Feb 13, 2012, 7:53:36 PM2/13/12
to
Shouldn't the weldor qual test use the same
parameters
as used in production? This test is worthless.....
news:120220121458215426%er...@stagesmith.com...
parameters
as used in production? This test is worthless.....
news:120220121458215426%er...@stagesmith.com...
Stuart Wheaton
Feb 14, 2012, 6:55:00 AM2/14/12
to
On 2/13/2012 7:53 PM, Phil Kangas wrote:
> Shouldn't the weldor qual test use the same
> parameters
> as used in production? This test is worthless.....
I would not say worthless. If you can turn a 180 degree bend in a
> Shouldn't the weldor qual test use the same
> parameters
> as used in production? This test is worthless.....
finished weld, and have it stay attached to the base metal, you have
obviously shown a degree of skill as a welder. If the welding
procedure is critical to the final product, the welding procedure for
the actual weldment ought to be qualified, which includes joint design,
and machine settings.
The test is a thorough test of welding skill under difficult imposed
conditions. to that degree, it has value in sorting out the skilled
welder from the guy who might be better off doing non-critical welds.
Phil Kangas
Feb 14, 2012, 7:10:31 PM2/14/12
to
Be sure to report back here if anyone passed that
4G test, eih?
"Stuart Wheaton" <sdwhe...@fuse.net> wrote in
message news:jhdi2i$jc1$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
4G test, eih?
"Stuart Wheaton" <sdwhe...@fuse.net> wrote in
message news:jhdi2i$jc1$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
Phil Kangas
Feb 15, 2012, 9:59:32 AM2/15/12
to
Now that I think of it, both you and ernie should
be the
first ones to do it to prove to the guy you pick
that
it can be done!
"Phil Kangas" <
> wrote in message > Be sure to report back here
be the
first ones to do it to prove to the guy you pick
that
it can be done!
"Phil Kangas" <
> wrote in message > Be sure to report back here
Steve B
Feb 16, 2012, 10:53:02 PM2/16/12
to
news:100220120115262666%er...@stagesmith.com...
were open root, 6010, then 7018 cover. What does the backing bar do? It
seems like that would make it a whole lot easier, as getting a good root
pass on an open root is not an easy thing.
I have had 2g, 3g, 4g, 6g, 6gTIG, and 2G 6010++ root, .072" FCAW filler
w/argon 36" diameter 1.5" wall pipe (oilfield caisson) certifications.
Other yard tests for specific duration jobs that were uncertified, just full
x rayed. No need to certify, you passed or failed. And more than two
cutouts, and you had your own personal helicopter flight to land.
Don't mean a lot, since I haven't done them in the required 6 months
previous to today, but they sure sound good, no?
Certs are nice. But it's better, IMHO, to have a guy that can weld
consistently and predictably, and who can put up with the on the job
conditions.
Backing plate seems like making it a whole lot easier to pass.
Steve
www.heartsurgerysurvivalguide.com
> As a Certified Weld Inspector I can clarify your situation.
>
> The most common MIG tests are
>
> 1 inch plate v-groove with a backing bar
>
> 3/8 inch v-groove with a backing bar
>
> and thick-to-thin i.e. 16 ga T-welded to a piece of 3/8 inch plate
>
> There are no standard square tube or rectangular tube tests for MIG.
> However any CWI can create one for a company.
> The most common test given is the 3/8 inch plate test with a backing
> bar.
> This test qualifies you for up to 3/4 inch steel.
> By doing the 3G (vertical up) and the 4G (overhead) you are qualified
> for all positions (1,2,3 and 4) with Groove or Fillet welds.
>
> When the coupon is cut from the test plate the small square of backing
> bar must be removed.
> It can be sawed off, ground off or ground and chiseled as long as no
> harm is done to the remainder of the test coupon.
What is the purpose of the backing bar? On all the tests I have done, they
>
> The most common MIG tests are
>
> 1 inch plate v-groove with a backing bar
>
> 3/8 inch v-groove with a backing bar
>
> and thick-to-thin i.e. 16 ga T-welded to a piece of 3/8 inch plate
>
> There are no standard square tube or rectangular tube tests for MIG.
> However any CWI can create one for a company.
> The most common test given is the 3/8 inch plate test with a backing
> bar.
> This test qualifies you for up to 3/4 inch steel.
> By doing the 3G (vertical up) and the 4G (overhead) you are qualified
> for all positions (1,2,3 and 4) with Groove or Fillet welds.
>
> When the coupon is cut from the test plate the small square of backing
> bar must be removed.
> It can be sawed off, ground off or ground and chiseled as long as no
> harm is done to the remainder of the test coupon.
were open root, 6010, then 7018 cover. What does the backing bar do? It
seems like that would make it a whole lot easier, as getting a good root
pass on an open root is not an easy thing.
I have had 2g, 3g, 4g, 6g, 6gTIG, and 2G 6010++ root, .072" FCAW filler
w/argon 36" diameter 1.5" wall pipe (oilfield caisson) certifications.
Other yard tests for specific duration jobs that were uncertified, just full
x rayed. No need to certify, you passed or failed. And more than two
cutouts, and you had your own personal helicopter flight to land.
Don't mean a lot, since I haven't done them in the required 6 months
previous to today, but they sure sound good, no?
Certs are nice. But it's better, IMHO, to have a guy that can weld
consistently and predictably, and who can put up with the on the job
conditions.
Backing plate seems like making it a whole lot easier to pass.
Steve
www.heartsurgerysurvivalguide.com
Ernie Leimkuhler
Feb 19, 2012, 6:17:14 PM2/19/12
to
I have run cert. type welds hundreds of times over 16 years of teaching
for my students.
I can run cert welds in my sleep in MIG, TIG Dual Shield, Inner Shield,
and Stick, on pipe, sheet, plate and beams, on steel, stainless,
aluminum, bronze, copper and titanium.
It doesn't mean I "want" to, just that I can.
I simply had a lot of practice while teaching.
And my brain is wired to absorb technical procedures.
Terrible with names and faces, but great with technical info.
The Weld test I described is a "Pre-Qualified" test, meaning it is a
standard test given to a lot of people.
Any company can have a CWI create a new procedure for their specific
parameters.
Genie Industries has a whole 3-ring binder of custom WPS's (Weld
Procedure Specifications)
Boeing has the same thing.
A lot of high production facilities have WPS's written for the way they
do things.
The downside to that is the certs are company specific and do not
transfer to another job.
In article <jhgh8o$5t4$1...@dont-email.me>, Phil Kangas
for my students.
I can run cert welds in my sleep in MIG, TIG Dual Shield, Inner Shield,
and Stick, on pipe, sheet, plate and beams, on steel, stainless,
aluminum, bronze, copper and titanium.
It doesn't mean I "want" to, just that I can.
I simply had a lot of practice while teaching.
And my brain is wired to absorb technical procedures.
Terrible with names and faces, but great with technical info.
The Weld test I described is a "Pre-Qualified" test, meaning it is a
standard test given to a lot of people.
Any company can have a CWI create a new procedure for their specific
parameters.
Genie Industries has a whole 3-ring binder of custom WPS's (Weld
Procedure Specifications)
Boeing has the same thing.
A lot of high production facilities have WPS's written for the way they
do things.
The downside to that is the certs are company specific and do not
transfer to another job.
In article <jhgh8o$5t4$1...@dont-email.me>, Phil Kangas
Phil Kangas
Feb 20, 2012, 7:40:55 PM2/20/12
to
Yes, the _test plate_ is a standard one. The
problem is running
short arc mig overhead in this groove. The intent
to do so
immediately raises a red flag as this is not a
pre-qualified
procedure. Short arc does have its place but must
be
used with caution as rework can be extensive and
expensive. I don't think such a test will pass
bend tests
if it is welded at all! ;>)} There is a reason
that pulse arc
has been developed for this application. To use
this test
as an evaluation of a weldors skill is
questionable IMO.
There are better ways to do it.
news:190220121517144650%er...@stagesmith.com...
>> >>> and no grinding between passes............
problem is running
short arc mig overhead in this groove. The intent
to do so
immediately raises a red flag as this is not a
pre-qualified
procedure. Short arc does have its place but must
be
used with caution as rework can be extensive and
expensive. I don't think such a test will pass
bend tests
if it is welded at all! ;>)} There is a reason
that pulse arc
has been developed for this application. To use
this test
as an evaluation of a weldors skill is
questionable IMO.
There are better ways to do it.
news:190220121517144650%er...@stagesmith.com...
Steve B
Feb 20, 2012, 10:33:07 PM2/20/12
to
"Phil Kangas" <pka...@upalphacomm.net> wrote in message
news:jhup6q$k81$1...@dont-email.me...
> Yes, the _test plate_ is a standard one. The problem is running
> short arc mig overhead in this groove. The intent to do so
> immediately raises a red flag as this is not a pre-qualified
> procedure. Short arc does have its place but must be
> used with caution as rework can be extensive and
> expensive. I don't think such a test will pass bend tests
> if it is welded at all! ;>)} There is a reason that pulse arc
> has been developed for this application. To use this test
> as an evaluation of a weldors skill is questionable IMO.
> There are better ways to do it.
Funny. Others have passed this test. Is it a conspiracy?
> short arc mig overhead in this groove. The intent to do so
> immediately raises a red flag as this is not a pre-qualified
> procedure. Short arc does have its place but must be
> used with caution as rework can be extensive and
> expensive. I don't think such a test will pass bend tests
> if it is welded at all! ;>)} There is a reason that pulse arc
> has been developed for this application. To use this test
> as an evaluation of a weldors skill is questionable IMO.
> There are better ways to do it.
Or merely a lack of skill?
We may never know.
Steve
Phil Kangas
Feb 21, 2012, 10:22:26 AM2/21/12
to
"Steve B" <ste...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:NfE0r.23661$rl2....@news.usenetserver.com...
Did tinlizzie pass it? Anybody reading this?
Steve B
Feb 21, 2012, 11:28:47 PM2/21/12
to
news:ji0crj$7dg$1...@dont-email.me...
I have passed so many tests that I don't recall them all. I don't have to.
I'm retired now. I probably passed that one. What's your point?
Steve
I'm retired now. I probably passed that one. What's your point?
Steve
Phil Kangas
Feb 22, 2012, 9:57:20 AM2/22/12
to
news:X9_0r.303404$gr6....@news.usenetserver.com...
My point is that it is impossible to pass a 4G
short arc bend test
on 3/8 plate no matter how famous the ego of the
weldor. The
challenge is on.... ;>)}
short arc bend test
on 3/8 plate no matter how famous the ego of the
weldor. The
challenge is on.... ;>)}
Steve B
Feb 22, 2012, 11:20:55 AM2/22/12
to
"Phil Kangas" <pka...@upalphacomm.net> wrote
> My point is that it is impossible to pass a 4G short arc bend test
> on 3/8 plate no matter how famous the ego of the weldor. The
> challenge is on.... ;>)}
Steve
PS: Welding tests are passed or failed on a science basis, not ego.
Ernie Leimkuhler
Feb 24, 2012, 7:17:40 AM2/24/12
to
In article <yak%q.297486$j02.2...@news.usenetserver.com>, Steve B
Backing bars are for "structural" welds.
Pipe is usually run "open root".
The only place I know of that runs open root plate welds is Canada.
Standard AWS D1.1 structural weld procedures state you weld a single
sided V-groove weld into a backing bar, then carbon-arc gouge the
backing bar off, scarf out the root and weld from the back side.
For testing we just skip the last part so we can examine the root pass.
A bad root pass fails 90% of weld tests.
Pipe is usually run "open root".
The only place I know of that runs open root plate welds is Canada.
Standard AWS D1.1 structural weld procedures state you weld a single
sided V-groove weld into a backing bar, then carbon-arc gouge the
backing bar off, scarf out the root and weld from the back side.
For testing we just skip the last part so we can examine the root pass.
A bad root pass fails 90% of weld tests.
Ernie Leimkuhler
Feb 24, 2012, 7:25:41 AM2/24/12
to
In article <ji0crj$7dg$1...@dont-email.me>, Phil Kangas
I'd say I have done it about 4 times over the years.
I did 1" plate back in "90 when I got my first certs in Indiana.
Since then I have done it maybe 3 times in 3/8" plate.
Just to show students how it is done.
It works fine as long as you are patient.
I don't understand why you think it is impossible.
I did 1" plate back in "90 when I got my first certs in Indiana.
Since then I have done it maybe 3 times in 3/8" plate.
Just to show students how it is done.
It works fine as long as you are patient.
I don't understand why you think it is impossible.
Steve B
Feb 24, 2012, 9:21:34 AM2/24/12
to
"Ernie Leimkuhler" <er...@stagesmith.com> wrote
> It works fine as long as you are patient.
>
> I don't understand why you think it is impossible.
because they have never personally seen them ..........
Steve
Phil Kangas
Feb 24, 2012, 12:48:57 PM2/24/12
to
news:240220120425419522%er...@stagesmith.com...
Didn't bend any coupons eih? Just show and tell?
;>)}
;>)}
Phil Kangas
Feb 24, 2012, 12:56:30 PM2/24/12
to
news:240220120417400702%er...@stagesmith.com...
And you flaunt your "CWI" papers like you know it
all?
You don't even know when where and how a backing
bar is to be used. You can't always get to the
back side
so that root pass better be good! You sound like
the
jon banquer of sejw. ;>)} Your "CWI" is hereby
revoked....
all?
You don't even know when where and how a backing
bar is to be used. You can't always get to the
back side
so that root pass better be good! You sound like
the
jon banquer of sejw. ;>)} Your "CWI" is hereby
revoked....
Ernie Leimkuhler
Feb 24, 2012, 2:15:18 PM2/24/12
to
In article <ji8j0j$v9s$1...@dont-email.me>, Phil Kangas
Of course the coupons were bent.
What is the point of doing the weld in the first place?
As I said I got a cert in hard wire MIG on 1" plate in '90.
That required a 3G and 4G that both passed bend tests.
Again I don't understand where all this hostility comes from.
I have even run an overhead 1" plate using spray mode with solid wire.
Tricky, but it can be done, just creates a lot more distortion.
What is the point of doing the weld in the first place?
As I said I got a cert in hard wire MIG on 1" plate in '90.
That required a 3G and 4G that both passed bend tests.
Again I don't understand where all this hostility comes from.
I have even run an overhead 1" plate using spray mode with solid wire.
Tricky, but it can be done, just creates a lot more distortion.
Pete Keillor
Feb 24, 2012, 2:23:43 PM2/24/12
to
On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 12:56:30 -0500, "Phil Kangas"
<pka...@upalphacomm.net> wrote:
>
>"Ernie Leimkuhler" <er...@stagesmith.com> wrote in
>message
<snip>
<pka...@upalphacomm.net> wrote:
>
>"Ernie Leimkuhler" <er...@stagesmith.com> wrote in
>message
plink. (sound of little-bitty dipshit hitting bottom of the bozo bin)
Stuart Wheaton
Feb 24, 2012, 10:51:04 PM2/24/12
to
I will let you know how things go in the near future.
Regarding Phil, I will run your suggestions through the proper channels.
One flush should do it.
Stuart
Steve B
Feb 25, 2012, 8:17:55 PM2/25/12
to
news:ji8j0k$v9s$2...@dont-email.me...
And so are you. Say goodnight, Gracie.
Steve
Steve
Steve B
Feb 25, 2012, 8:19:00 PM2/25/12
to
"Pete Keillor" <keill...@chartermi.net> wrote in message
news:urofk75v2vbr7i31g...@4ax.com...
Steve
Gunner Asch
Feb 25, 2012, 10:47:59 PM2/25/12
to
<Ka-Plingggggggk!>
Mr Kangas has sullied my screen one time too many.
Gunner
--
One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch
Phil Kangas
Feb 26, 2012, 10:58:46 AM2/26/12
to
"Ernie Leimkuhler" wrote:
"Standard AWS D1.1 structural weld procedures
state you weld a single
sided V-groove weld into a backing bar, then
carbon-arc gouge the
backing bar off, scarf out the root and weld from
the back side.
For testing we just skip the last part so we can
examine the root pass."
schoolyard welder.
Never worked in a heavy metal fabricating
environment. The code
does not require this, there may be no access to
do it and for
testing it is total bullshit. How can you inspect
the root pass if you
gouged it out? I rest my case.
Phil k.
Phil Kangas
Feb 26, 2012, 2:36:40 PM2/26/12
to
"Gunner Asch" > Mr Kangas has sullied my screen
one time too many.
>
> Gunner
Oh, btw, I don't give a damn about being
>
> Gunner
kill filed by mob rule. I'm sticking to my
opinion no matter what you do. Tar and
feather, waterboard, tied to a tree in the
swamp in June, go ahead have at it but
I think His Majesty is a poseur.
He has an ethical responsibilty as a "CWI"
to understand weld codes and their application.
He failed.
Richard Smith
Mar 10, 2012, 10:26:46 AM3/10/12
to
> >> Backing bars are for "structural" welds.
> >> Pipe is usually run "open root".
> >> The only place I know of that runs open root plate welds is Canada.
Regarding with/without backing and weld without backing qualifies weld
> >> Pipe is usually run "open root".
> >> The only place I know of that runs open root plate welds is Canada.
with backing...
Recent "penny drops" moment for me I'll share.
Many component welds and all fillet welds have "backing" from the
other component of the weldment.
Previously I was visualising it only as meaning when you come along
with a discrete additional backing-bar.
Often you have to qualify a fillet weld with a groove-butt so you can
do mechanical tests on the weld to prove properties (look at a fillet
and work out how you are going to extract pieces for tensile, Charpy,
etc!). Hence "without backing qualifies with-backing" goes along with
"butt qualifies fillet" in enabling manageable Procedure Qualification
tests proving properties.
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