How are we supposed to read 5GHz WiFi signal strength bands?

[ceg]

I ran a WiFi survey using "Wifi Analyzer" freeware on my Android phone in
a college-dorm atmosphere earlier today (after installing Windows 10),
and I think I completely understand the 2.4GHz wifi signal-strength
chart; but I totally fail to gather any useful information out of the
5GHz signal-strength chart (specifically what band to set the 5GHz wifi
adapter to).

http://i.imgur.com/JS4BDiy.jpg

The 2.4GHz chart is at the left; while the 5GHz chart is to the right.
Can you help me interpret what I'm seeing in the 5GHz chart?

I can't make any sense of the 5GHz chart (for example, what band to use?).
Can you?

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 23 Aug 2015 05:45:56 +0000 (UTC), ceg

<curt.gul...@gmail.com> wrote:

>I ran a WiFi survey using "Wifi Analyzer" freeware on my Android phone in
>a college-dorm atmosphere earlier today (after installing Windows 10),
>and I think I completely understand the 2.4GHz wifi signal-strength
>chart; but I totally fail to gather any useful information out of the
>5GHz signal-strength chart (specifically what band to set the 5GHz wifi
>adapter to).
>
>http://i.imgur.com/JS4BDiy.jpg
>
>The 2.4GHz chart is at the left; while the 5GHz chart is to the right.

It's awfully pretty.

>Can you help me interpret what I'm seeing in the 5GHz chart?

I think it means "LIfe is empty and the only true solace is in
technology."

>I can't make any sense of the 5GHz chart (for example, what band to use?).
>Can you?

No. But it's awfully purty. Maybe a museum would want to display it

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 23 Aug 2015 05:45:56 +0000 (UTC), ceg
<curt.gul...@gmail.com> wrote:

>I ran a WiFi survey using "Wifi Analyzer" freeware on my Android phone in
>a college-dorm atmosphere earlier today (after installing Windows 10),
>and I think I completely understand the 2.4GHz wifi signal-strength
>chart; but I totally fail to gather any useful information out of the
>5GHz signal-strength chart (specifically what band to set the 5GHz wifi
>adapter to).
>
>http://i.imgur.com/JS4BDiy.jpg

A strange thing. The image above displayed just fine at first and for
at least a couple minutes, and I went and did something else, but later
when I looked at the tab, it was all black. When I reloaded, I got the
message.
"The image http://i.imgur.com/JS4BDiy.jpg cannot be dsplayed because
it contains errors". I checked the spelling.

You didn't change the image in the 15 minutes preceding the current
time, did you?

When I clicked on the link above just now, got the same black screen
with one line error message at the top, as above.

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 23 Aug 2015 06:33:36 -0400, micky

Tried again just now, 14 minutes later, and it worked just fine. Maybe
because I had closed the two tabs with error messages?

[N_Cook]

It got misdirected from a disco gobo.

[David L. Martel]

CEG,

Puzzling that your graph or chart on the right does not have a labelled
"x" axis. What is it showing? If it is meant to be like the chart on the
left then that suggests that you do not have anything but noise at 5 gHz.
Looks like a lot of noise.

Dave M.

[Lee]

On 23/08/2015 06:45, ceg wrote:

You could start by choosing the same graph format for both images and
then actually choosing the 5Ghz one for the one on the right (hint no 5G
displayed)

[Char Jackson]

On Sun, 23 Aug 2015 05:45:56 +0000 (UTC), ceg <curt.gul...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>I ran a WiFi survey using "Wifi Analyzer" freeware on my Android phone in
>a college-dorm atmosphere earlier today (after installing Windows 10),
>and I think I completely understand the 2.4GHz wifi signal-strength
>chart; but I totally fail to gather any useful information out of the
>5GHz signal-strength chart (specifically what band to set the 5GHz wifi
>adapter to).
>
>http://i.imgur.com/JS4BDiy.jpg
>
>The 2.4GHz chart is at the left; while the 5GHz chart is to the right.

While viewing the 2.4GHz chart, tap the screen once. You'll see a freq band
indicator over on the left, near the -db scale. If you do nothing, the freq
indicator times out and disappears again, but if you tap it while it's
visible, the screen switches to the 5GHz band.

What you're calling the 5GHz chart is really just another view of the 2.4GHz
chart. You *swiped* to get there. You need to tap.

[The Burke, col ret]

"David L. Martel" wrote in message news:mrcld0$oik$1...@dont-email.me...

Carefully.
LOL

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 23 Aug 2015 05:45:56 +0000 (UTC), ceg
<curt.gul...@gmail.com> wrote:

>http://i.imgur.com/JS4BDiy.jpg
>
>The 2.4GHz chart is at the left; while the 5GHz chart is to the right.
>Can you help me interpret what I'm seeing in the 5GHz chart?

No, it's not. We've been through this before. If your smartphone
supports 5GHz wi-fi, Wi-Fi Analyzer will produce a square box, near
the upper left hand corner of the screen, just below the "W" in "WiFi
Analyzer" with either 2.4G or 5G inside the box. The problem is that
the box disappears. Tap that area and the box will magically appear.
Tap it again to toggle modes. Also, if you're looking at 5G and no
SSID's are showing, the program will magically switch back to 2.4G.

The mess you were looking at on the right is the signal strength
versus time graphs. Too bad the author of WiFi Analyzer didn't bother
adding page titles.

You're not done yet. I've noticed that several "smart" devices, such
as cheapo cell phone and tabloids, that are allegedly dual band, turn
off the unused band when connected to an access point. The result is
that WiFi Analyzer pretends that there's no 5G in the device.
Disconnecting from your access point should solve that problem.

Also, there's something wrong with your Comcast connection. Your
download speed is fine, but you should be getting about 12 Mbits/sec
upstream. At least that's what I've been seeing at various customers.
Winner of the highest residential speed award so far was about 160/30
in Felton with a Comcast Cisco DPC3939:
<http://mydeviceinfo.comcast.net/device.php?devid=357>
There's suitable conspiracy here, but I promised not to tell.


Leak of the week (which means you didn't read this here): Comcast
Business class will also get a boost in speed on Thurs, Aug 27. Reboot
your modems in order to see the improvement. I pried this out of a
Comcast installer last week. If it doesn't happen on time, I'll claim
that this was a forgery and that I never said it.


--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[Ant]

Does that app exist for iOS? I didn't see it.

--
"Wow, I haven't felt this powerful since I got to decide which ant lives
and which ant dies. You shall battle to the death, and the winner will
be given his freedom. Why are you looking at me like that?" --Peter;
"Peter, would you like a glass of...? Oh, my God! I told you not to play
God with those ants!" --Lois in Family Guy S12E16.
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see
this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
( ) Chop ANT from its address if e-mailing privately.
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 23 Aug 2015 16:35:09 -0700, Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:

>Does that app exist for iOS? I didn't see it.

Nope. Apple has decided that you should not be allowed to install
wi-fi sniffer, monitor, and troubleshooting applications on Apple
handsets. Apple knows what is best for you. This is typical:
<http://www.adriangranados.com/blog/where-did-wifi-analyzer-go>
Limitations like this is why I gave up on IOS long ago.

Of course, that's why people jailbreak their iPhones. Try the Cydia
store on your jailbroken iThing:
<https://cydia.saurik.com>
Firing up my ancient iPhone 3G (jailbroken), I find
- yFyLite Network Finder
and nothing else. There might be something newer. I just ran Cydia
to see if there's anything new, and it's furiously updating packages
and indexes. Yawn... Argh, this thing is slow. How could I ever have
used it? The Cydia listing shows a huge list of WiFi related
utilities. A few are similar to WiFi Analyzer. The others are
connection managers and password managers. Most are useless tweaks
changing the stock signal stength icon to something more interesting.
One I recall from long ago is WiFiFoFum with its goofy radar like
display.

Of course, if you have a laptop, Apple allows Wi-Fi monitoring for
OS/X:
<https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/wifi-explorer/id494803304?mt=12>
<https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/wifi-signal/id525912054?mt=12>
Any semblance to hypocrisy is hopefully coincidental.

[ceg]

On Sun, 23 Aug 2015 06:48:42 -0400, micky wrote:

> Tried again just now, 14 minutes later, and it worked just fine. Maybe
> because I had closed the two tabs with error messages?

Works for me.
http://i.imgur.com/JS4BDiy.jpg

Anyway, I can't make any sense out of the 5GHz graph, so, I was hoping
someone who knew what it means would chime in.

[ceg]

On Sun, 23 Aug 2015 05:03:54 -0700, trader_4 wrote:

> Does the app have a setting where you can limit the ones plotted to ones
> that are above some cutoff level?

None that I know of.
The app is the freeware "WiFi Analyzer".

At home, with only a handful of 5GHz WiFi signals, the chart is
easy to read, and you are correct, the graphs are color coded
to the access points (ESSIDs) in the boxes at the top, and the
upper squiggles are of greater signal strength.

[ceg]

On Sun, 23 Aug 2015 13:09:55 +0100, N_Cook wrote:

>> http://i.imgur.com/JS4BDiy.jpg

> It got misdirected from a disco gobo.

BTW, why do so many people use HOME as the prefix to their
SSID's?

[ceg]

At home, I can see better what is going on.

The 5GHz graph from Wifi Analyzer freeware has signal strength on the
Y axis (-30dBm at the top line, then -40dBm, -50dBm, -60dBm, -70dBm,
-80dBm, and -90dBm on the first line above the x axis, where the
y intercept must be at -100dBm Signal Strength.

The X axis isn't labeled, but it must just be time since I can watch
the graphs grow from one side to the other in about two minutes time.

[ceg]

On Sun, 23 Aug 2015 15:56:04 +0100, Lee wrote:

> You could start by choosing the same graph format for both images and
> then actually choosing the 5Ghz one for the one on the right (hint no 5G
> displayed)

I don't think you get any option to choose anything, least of all the
graph format.

[ceg]

On Sun, 23 Aug 2015 10:01:03 -0500, Char Jackson wrote:

> What you're calling the 5GHz chart is really just another view of the
> 2.4GHz chart. You *swiped* to get there. You need to tap.

Oooooooooooooh. I *did* swipe to see what I was calling the 5GHz chart!
(How did you know?)

I see now, that it's the *same* chart, only over time instead of over
frequency! (slaps head ... duh) It was just frequency versus time for
the x axis between the two charts. (embarrassed).

I see I have 5 options for viewing that 2.4GHz chart:
1. Channel graph
2. Time graph
3. Channel rating
4. AP list
5. Signal meter

If I *tap* at the top left (near the top of the y axis), then I see a
box with "2G" and "5G" alternatively, as I tap that box.

Geeeeeeez. I feel stoooopid.

[ceg]

On Sun, 23 Aug 2015 10:34:24 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

> If your smartphone
> supports 5GHz wi-fi, Wi-Fi Analyzer will produce a square box, near the
> upper left hand corner of the screen, just below the "W" in "WiFi
> Analyzer" with either 2.4G or 5G inside the box. The problem is that
> the box disappears. Tap that area and the box will magically appear.
> Tap it again to toggle modes. Also, if you're looking at 5G and no
> SSID's are showing, the program will magically switch back to 2.4G.

I only just now realized that what you are saying it totally correct!
I was wrong. I misinterpreted what I was seeing.
And that's why it confused me.

> The mess you were looking at on the right is the signal strength versus
> time graphs. Too bad the author of WiFi Analyzer didn't bother adding
> page titles.

Now I see that, since I have far fewer access points at home.

> You're not done yet. I've noticed that several "smart" devices, such as
> cheapo cell phone and tabloids, that are allegedly dual band, turn off
> the unused band when connected to an access point. The result is that
> WiFi Analyzer pretends that there's no 5G in the device. Disconnecting
> from your access point should solve that problem.

When I tap the top left, I do get a 5G and a 2G box, alternating with
each other. So, WiFi Analyzer does seem to see both.

> Also, there's something wrong with your Comcast connection. Your
> download speed is fine, but you should be getting about 12 Mbits/sec
> upstream. At least that's what I've been seeing at various customers.
> Winner of the highest residential speed award so far was about 160/30 in
> Felton with a Comcast Cisco DPC3939:
> <http://mydeviceinfo.comcast.net/device.php?devid=357>
> There's suitable conspiracy here, but I promised not to tell.

That's interesting. It's the kid's Comcast setup. I'm at home now, so,
I can't test it. But they get about 90 down on 5GHz and about 5 or 6 up.

On 2.4GHz, they get only about 30 down and about 5 or 6 up.

The "service", as I recall, is nominally 45 down and 5 up.
So, should they really be getting double the upload speeds?

Should we complain to Comcast since it's at least 5Gbps?

> Leak of the week (which means you didn't read this here): Comcast
> Business class will also get a boost in speed on Thurs, Aug 27. Reboot
> your modems in order to see the improvement. I pried this out of a
> Comcast installer last week. If it doesn't happen on time, I'll claim
> that this was a forgery and that I never said it.

I wonder what "Business Class" is. Are these kids in Business Class?
It's an apartment building with a lot of kids in it (all from the
school) but it's an off-campus building.

[ceg]

Jeff is correct.
On iOS, you are screwed unless you jailbreak it to make it functional.
But OS/X should work, as would any other operating system not iOS.

[Tony Hwang]

Maybe because it is home network? Mine is homewireless and cascadehome.

[Jeff Liebermann]

They don't. The HOME-XXXX format, where XXXX might be the last 4
digits of the MAC address, is the default SSID for Comcast "gateway"
style wireless routers. I'm not sure when this started, but my
guess(tm) is about 2 years ago.

Anything is better than linksys, dlink, default, hpsetup, and default.
<https://wigle.net/stats#mainstats>
3.74% of about 210 million wireless networks use the default SSID. I
guess this is proof that most computer users have no imagination.

[Mark Lloyd]

I have been in a nearby city, where there are a lot of college students.
I don't see "home" but I do often see ISP names or router brand names.
It looks like an attempt by sellers to provide unique SSIDs, and users
who don't change the defaults.

Where I live, I don't see prefixes like that, but I do see some
interesting names like "FBI Surveillance" and
"ThisIsNoyTheWiFiYou'reLookingFor".


--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"HUMANISM: an exaltation of freedom, but one limited by our need to
exercise it as an integral part of nature and society." [John Ralston
Saul]

[Mark Lloyd]

On 08/26/2015 09:08 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

[snip]

> Anything is better than linksys, dlink, default, hpsetup, and default.
> <https://wigle.net/stats#mainstats>
> 3.74% of about 210 million wireless networks use the default SSID. I
> guess this is proof that most computer users have no imagination.
>

I used to see a lot of "Linksys" SSIDs without wireless security. Once I
considered connecting and changing it to something like "I'm so
insecure!" or "I need my WPA!",

[ceg]

On Wed, 26 Aug 2015 07:08:58 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

> They don't. The HOME-XXXX format, where XXXX might be the last 4 digits
> of the MAC address, is the default SSID for Comcast "gateway"
> style wireless routers.

Ah. That makes a *lot* of sense (I hate when that happens!). :)

This is a "comcast neighborhood", where all the college kids live. We can
assume most of them weren't born with a router next to the silver spoon
in the cradle, so, they probably got their modem/router combo's from
Comcast. And Comcast probably defaulted on the naming conventions.

That makes too much sense!
Thanks for 'splaining.

[ceg]

On Wed, 26 Aug 2015 10:29:39 -0500, Mark Lloyd wrote:

> I used to see a lot of "Linksys" SSIDs without wireless security. Once I
> considered connecting and changing it to something like "I'm so
> insecure!" or "I need my WPA!",

Because of butterfly tables, you want your ESSID to be unique, I think.

The details are beyond me (I think Jeff Liebermann turned me on to this
concept), but the net is that you don't want your ESSID to be something
that is in the hash tables of 30 million other ESSIDs.

[Tony Hwang]

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Aug 2015 22:06:49 +0000 (UTC), ceg
> <curt.gul...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 23 Aug 2015 13:09:55 +0100, N_Cook wrote:
>>
>>>> http://i.imgur.com/JS4BDiy.jpg
>>> It got misdirected from a disco gobo.
>>
>> BTW, why do so many people use HOME as the prefix to their
>> SSID's?
>
> They don't. The HOME-XXXX format, where XXXX might be the last 4
> digits of the MAC address, is the default SSID for Comcast "gateway"
> style wireless routers. I'm not sure when this started, but my
> guess(tm) is about 2 years ago.
>
> Anything is better than linksys, dlink, default, hpsetup, and default.
> <https://wigle.net/stats#mainstats>
> 3.74% of about 210 million wireless networks use the default SSID. I
> guess this is proof that most computer users have no imagination.
>

Fancy SSID has no impact on security.

[ceg]

On Wed, 26 Aug 2015 17:31:20 -0600, Tony Hwang wrote:

> Fancy SSID has no impact on security.

Butterfly hash tables?

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Wed, 26 Aug 2015 17:31:20 -0600, Tony Hwang <drag...@shaw.ca>
wrote:

>Fancy SSID has no impact on security.

Wrong. The SSID is used as a "salt" to do WPA/WPA2 encryption. The
rainbow tables are only useful if the SSID of the system that you're
attacking is the same as one of the SSID's in the rainbow table. Using
a common SSID listed on Wigle improves the probability of a successful
attack. I use my address.

<http://www.renderlab.net/projects/WPA-tables/>
<https://wigle.net/stats#ssidstats>

[Tony Hwang]

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Wed, 26 Aug 2015 17:31:20 -0600, Tony Hwang <drag...@shaw.ca>
> wrote:
>
>> Fancy SSID has no impact on security.
>
> Wrong. The SSID is used as a "salt" to do WPA/WPA2 encryption. The
> rainbow tables are only useful if the SSID of the system that you're
> attacking is the same as one of the SSID's in the rainbow table. Using
> a common SSID listed on Wigle improves the probability of a successful
> attack. I use my address.
>
> <http://www.renderlab.net/projects/WPA-tables/>
> <https://wigle.net/stats#ssidstats>
>
>

Regardless, it is crackable if one intends to.
I don't even bother hiding my SSID. Nothing
important in my home network. My lawyer, bank,
accountant keeping important stuffs.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 27 Aug 2015 11:20:05 -0600, Tony Hwang <drag...@shaw.ca>

This is one reason why I hate security discussions. If you really
think there's nothing important on your home computah, then I suggest
you test this. Install a program that does a recursive text search on
all your files. For Windoze, I use Agent Ransack:
<https://www.mythicsoft.com/agentransack>
Plug in your social security number, checking account numbers, and
credit card numbers, and see what it finds. The idea is to obtain
enough info to perform an identity theft. I was rather surprised to
find both on my machine. While WPA2 cracking is usually just to gain
access to a faster or more convenient internet connection, it's not
beneath the dignity of most casual hackers to make some money on the
side.

[Sam E]

On 08/26/2015 06:31 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:

> Fancy SSID has no impact on security.
>

It could affect how attractive your network is to a potential intruder.

So, indirectly, it is affecting security since it makes the difference
on whether or not someone tries to get in.

--
"I am attempting to construct a mnemonic memory circuit using stone
knives and bearskins."

[Sam E]

On 08/27/2015 12:29 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Wed, 26 Aug 2015 17:31:20 -0600, Tony Hwang <drag...@shaw.ca>
> wrote:
>
>> Fancy SSID has no impact on security.
>
> Wrong. The SSID is used as a "salt" to do WPA/WPA2 encryption. The
> rainbow tables are only useful if the SSID of the system that you're
> attacking is the same as one of the SSID's in the rainbow table. Using
> a common SSID listed on Wigle improves the probability of a successful
> attack. I use my address.
>
> <http://www.renderlab.net/projects/WPA-tables/>
> <https://wigle.net/stats#ssidstats>
>
>

Don't name your WiFi network "monkey".

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 27 Aug 2015 13:26:40 -0500, Sam E
<why.sho...@be.email.invalid> wrote:

>Don't name your WiFi network "monkey".

The SSID can be 1 to 32 characters. One of my customers set his SSID
to "*". I forgot exactly what it broke, but I do recall spending a
week failing to fix what I thought were unrelated problem. When I
changed the SSID to something reasonable, all the weirdness went away.
This was quite a while ago so presumably it's now fixed.

Another fun SSID is "ANY". I don't recall what it was suppose to do,
but it was thrown into some long forgotten manufacturers firmware to
allow any device to connect, probably for repeaters and range
extenders. Try it and see what breaks.

Also try "Free Public WiFi" which is really a Microsoft XP bug.
<http://www.npr.org/2010/10/09/130451369/the-zombie-network-beware-free-public-wifi>

[Ewald Böhm]

On Thu, 27 Aug 2015 11:20:05 -0600, Tony Hwang wrote:

> Regardless, it is crackable if one intends to.
> I don't even bother hiding my SSID. Nothing important in my home
> network. My lawyer, bank,
> accountant keeping important stuffs.

It doesn't seem like you understand the problem.
Maybe you do, but it doesn't seem like you do.

The problem is they used, as a salt, the ESSID!

That's a pretty dumb salt.

It's even a dumber salt if the owner leaves the ESSID at the default
values, or, if the owner changes the ESSID to something common.

Because of that, anyone with the tables already has your hash and is on
your wireless network already.

[Ewald Böhm]

On Wed, 26 Aug 2015 10:29:39 -0500, Mark Lloyd wrote:

> I used to see a lot of "Linksys" SSIDs without wireless security. Once I
> considered connecting and changing it to something like "I'm so
> insecure!" or "I need my WPA!",

You have to realize what Jeff is trying to tell you, which is that any
common name for the ESSID has *already* been hashed.

In that case, WPA2/PSK is worthless.

Use a common name, and you immediately have no security no matter what
you set the security to.

[Mark Lloyd]

On 09/03/2015 11:53 PM, Ewald Böhm wrote:
> On Wed, 26 Aug 2015 10:29:39 -0500, Mark Lloyd wrote:
>
>> I used to see a lot of "Linksys" SSIDs without wireless security. Once I
>> considered connecting and changing it to something like "I'm so
>> insecure!" or "I need my WPA!",
>
> You have to realize what Jeff is trying to tell you, which is that any
> common name for the ESSID has *already* been hashed.
>
> In that case, WPA2/PSK is worthless.

WPA2/PSK is one thing that is needed. Another is a better ESSID.

> Use a common name, and you immediately have no security no matter what
> you set the security to.
>

--
112 days until the winter celebration (Friday December 25, 2015 for 1
day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"He's a born-again Christian. The trouble is, he suffered brain damage
during rebirth."

[Ewald Böhm]

On Fri, 04 Sep 2015 11:59:08 -0500, Mark Lloyd wrote:

> WPA2/PSK is one thing that is needed. Another is a better ESSID.

You need both.
One without the other is worthless.

[Mark Lloyd]

Yes, both are better. I was never recommending only one, even though
that would be far from worthless.

--
110 days until the winter celebration (Friday December 25, 2015 for 1

day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"If I see a professing vegetarian eating meat, it is no hypocrisy for me
to point out his inconsistency even though I personally do not subscribe
to the principles of vegetarianism."