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What do you look for in a portable battery backup for medical devices (like CPAP)?
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J. P. Gilliver (John)
Jul 3, 2023, 4:57:36 PM7/3/23
to
What do you look for in a portable battery backup for medical devices
(like CPAP)?
My county is offering a discount/rebate on a Portable Battery Backup
<https://energyservices.org/psps/>
They offer the following portable battery backup units, where I want the
most bang for the buck - but I don't even know what to look out for.
Do you know anything about selecting portable battery backup devices?
Delta 1300
<https://energyservices.app.box.com/s/isururr6yh8gbt6te1zqazf4xtg37ct4>
Yeti-3000
<https://energyservices.app.box.com/s/g5m6eu4on24499pjquxzlgucsa5iv343>
Yeti-500x
<https://energyservices.app.box.com/s/b57e8i20xv03pyi9zy6f0wux6iq973id>
Yeti-1500x
<https://energyservices.app.box.com/s/yy8qcy4v06lld2d01fkkwfgjlgeducyv>
Yeti-6000x
<https://energyservices.app.box.com/s/g2qqop2164xuuokb3hqvs6360hqlz34s>
Yeti-1000x
<https://energyservices.app.box.com/s/fx3j63xjxbrz0272605x2p8cxzqiwk1s>
Boulder-200
<https://energyservices.app.box.com/s/kdk7qkcf5nzjjpgvzt8r1592kztcsofr>
There are a LOT of specifications in those manuals.
But what is the MINIMUM spec of what you might want?
I would want it to run CPAP (of course) overnight for a three day power
outage (or so), and maybe charge a laptop and run a router and that kind of
minimum emergency stuff.
Great if it can run a refrigerator but that may be asking too much.
(like CPAP)?
My county is offering a discount/rebate on a Portable Battery Backup
<https://energyservices.org/psps/>
They offer the following portable battery backup units, where I want the
most bang for the buck - but I don't even know what to look out for.
Do you know anything about selecting portable battery backup devices?
Delta 1300
<https://energyservices.app.box.com/s/isururr6yh8gbt6te1zqazf4xtg37ct4>
Yeti-3000
<https://energyservices.app.box.com/s/g5m6eu4on24499pjquxzlgucsa5iv343>
Yeti-500x
<https://energyservices.app.box.com/s/b57e8i20xv03pyi9zy6f0wux6iq973id>
Yeti-1500x
<https://energyservices.app.box.com/s/yy8qcy4v06lld2d01fkkwfgjlgeducyv>
Yeti-6000x
<https://energyservices.app.box.com/s/g2qqop2164xuuokb3hqvs6360hqlz34s>
Yeti-1000x
<https://energyservices.app.box.com/s/fx3j63xjxbrz0272605x2p8cxzqiwk1s>
Boulder-200
<https://energyservices.app.box.com/s/kdk7qkcf5nzjjpgvzt8r1592kztcsofr>
There are a LOT of specifications in those manuals.
But what is the MINIMUM spec of what you might want?
I would want it to run CPAP (of course) overnight for a three day power
outage (or so), and maybe charge a laptop and run a router and that kind of
minimum emergency stuff.
Great if it can run a refrigerator but that may be asking too much.
kelown
Jul 3, 2023, 6:45:08 PM7/3/23
to
> What do you look for in a portable battery backup for medical devices
> (like CPAP)?
> I would want it to run CPAP (of course) overnight for a three day power
> outage (or so), and maybe charge a laptop and run a router and that kind of
> minimum emergency stuff.
> Great if it can run a refrigerator but that may be asking too much.
You'll need a backup that supports the DC output voltage of your CPAP.
> outage (or so), and maybe charge a laptop and run a router and that kind of
> minimum emergency stuff.
> Great if it can run a refrigerator but that may be asking too much.
Longevity depends on your CPAP pressure, humidifier settings and hours
used. Both Amazon ads have charts estimating CPAP longevity for the backup.
Maxoak CPAP backup/$298/Amazon - 297 watt-hours, cannot handle
refrigerator power usage - https://is.gd/4ItXgy
Anker PowerHouse 767 backup/$2000/Amazon - 2048 watt-hours, can handle
refrigerator power usage for multiple days - https://is.gd/xr48KE
Ed P
Jul 3, 2023, 8:02:09 PM7/3/23
to
On 7/3/2023 4:58 PM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
> What do you look for in a portable battery backup for medical devices
> (like CPAP)?
>
> My county is offering a discount/rebate on a Portable Battery Backup
> <https://energyservices.org/psps/>
>
>
> What do you look for in a portable battery backup for medical devices
> (like CPAP)?
>
> My county is offering a discount/rebate on a Portable Battery Backup
> <https://energyservices.org/psps/>
>
>
> I would want it to run CPAP (of course) overnight for a three day power
> outage (or so), and maybe charge a laptop and run a router and that kind of
> minimum emergency stuff.
> Great if it can run a refrigerator but that may be asking too much.
If you want 3 days on your CPAP you should be considering a generator to
> outage (or so), and maybe charge a laptop and run a router and that kind of
> minimum emergency stuff.
> Great if it can run a refrigerator but that may be asking too much.
charge the battery backup.
First thing to do is determine the load you will have.
Peter W.
Jul 5, 2023, 1:24:54 PM7/5/23
to
OK - the typical heated CPAP device will consume 100 watts per hour if heated. I am going for the extreme case for safety.
a) Assume you will use it 8 hours per day, for three days.
b) Assume a 10% self-discharge rate for (3.3% per day).
c) Assume that you will want 200% of necessary capacity - that is, discharge the back-up device to no lower than 50% to avoid damage to the batteries.
3 x 8 x 100 x 2 = 4,800 watts.
Allowing for losses, and self-discharge as-noted. You will need a device capable of supplying 48 amp-hours at 120 VAC.
Without redundancy (dangerous). your typical 1500 watt UPS will operate at roughly 3 hours per 100 watts, without damage, and run in the $500 - $700 range.
You will need eight (8) of them to meet your most basic need. And have to change them twice (2x) per night. Or, you could spend $3,500 for a single unit that could run for all of eight hours at 100watts.
Get a generator. Be wise in your fuel selection. You will have four (4) choices:
a) Gasoline: Gasoline generators are amongst the cheapest of options, and even a relatively small one will run all critical functions in the typical household including your refrigerator, some lights and the CPAP. It will burn something on the order of 1.3 gallons of fuel per hour. So, you will need to store 30+ gallons of fuel on-site, and fill it as needed. At night. Or 94 gallons and run it 24/7. Gasoline devices tend to be either large, powerful and noisy, or small, quiet and low power. Anywhere from $400 - $1,000 will get you there. No transfer switch, strictly a manual device.
c) Diesel fuel: This would be a whole house device, and if installed with the proper transfer switch, and with a large tank, you could get up to a week with such a device. But they are not cheap. You would start around $1,500 without installation or a transfer-switch. So, figure $3,500 absolute minimum installed. And that would be for a Chinese-origin device. A decent Kohler device would be about $4,500 installed.
d) Natural gas: If you have a reliable source of natural gas - about the same installed cost as a diesel - and no fuel limits. By far, the cleanest, lowest maintenance option, and least expensive to operate.
e) Propane: As above, but you would need a large propane tank with the associated issues.
The issue with medical devices is that one does not want to screw around with 'good enough' - as that 3-day issue might turn into a 4 or 8 day issue.
Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
a) Assume you will use it 8 hours per day, for three days.
b) Assume a 10% self-discharge rate for (3.3% per day).
c) Assume that you will want 200% of necessary capacity - that is, discharge the back-up device to no lower than 50% to avoid damage to the batteries.
3 x 8 x 100 x 2 = 4,800 watts.
Allowing for losses, and self-discharge as-noted. You will need a device capable of supplying 48 amp-hours at 120 VAC.
Without redundancy (dangerous). your typical 1500 watt UPS will operate at roughly 3 hours per 100 watts, without damage, and run in the $500 - $700 range.
You will need eight (8) of them to meet your most basic need. And have to change them twice (2x) per night. Or, you could spend $3,500 for a single unit that could run for all of eight hours at 100watts.
Get a generator. Be wise in your fuel selection. You will have four (4) choices:
a) Gasoline: Gasoline generators are amongst the cheapest of options, and even a relatively small one will run all critical functions in the typical household including your refrigerator, some lights and the CPAP. It will burn something on the order of 1.3 gallons of fuel per hour. So, you will need to store 30+ gallons of fuel on-site, and fill it as needed. At night. Or 94 gallons and run it 24/7. Gasoline devices tend to be either large, powerful and noisy, or small, quiet and low power. Anywhere from $400 - $1,000 will get you there. No transfer switch, strictly a manual device.
c) Diesel fuel: This would be a whole house device, and if installed with the proper transfer switch, and with a large tank, you could get up to a week with such a device. But they are not cheap. You would start around $1,500 without installation or a transfer-switch. So, figure $3,500 absolute minimum installed. And that would be for a Chinese-origin device. A decent Kohler device would be about $4,500 installed.
d) Natural gas: If you have a reliable source of natural gas - about the same installed cost as a diesel - and no fuel limits. By far, the cleanest, lowest maintenance option, and least expensive to operate.
e) Propane: As above, but you would need a large propane tank with the associated issues.
The issue with medical devices is that one does not want to screw around with 'good enough' - as that 3-day issue might turn into a 4 or 8 day issue.
Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
J. P. Gilliver (John)
Jul 5, 2023, 2:59:24 PM7/5/23
to
On Tue, 4 Jul 2023 at 01:02:03, Ed P <e...@snet.xxx> wrote: (my responses
usually follow points raised):
<https://energyservices.org/psps/>
And it fits in the bedroom closet and can be used in the bedroom.
The generator is not.
> First thing to do is determine the load you will have.
It's a "ResMed AirSense 10 Autoset" so the load is whatever that uses.
Probably something like special 24VAC at probably something like 3.75 Amps.
At least that's what it says for the 3-wire DC output for the CPAP machine.
usually follow points raised):
> If you want 3 days on your CPAP you should be considering a generator to
> charge the battery backup.
The portable AC power inverter battery backup from the utility is free.
> charge the battery backup.
<https://energyservices.org/psps/>
And it fits in the bedroom closet and can be used in the bedroom.
The generator is not.
> First thing to do is determine the load you will have.
Probably something like special 24VAC at probably something like 3.75 Amps.
At least that's what it says for the 3-wire DC output for the CPAP machine.
ehsjr
Jul 6, 2023, 11:28:02 AM7/6/23
to
On 7/5/2023 2:59 PM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
> On Tue, 4 Jul 2023 at 01:02:03, Ed P <e...@snet.xxx> wrote: (my responses
> usually follow points raised):
>> If you want 3 days on your CPAP you should be considering a generator
>> to charge the battery backup.
>
> The portable AC power inverter battery backup from the utility is free.
> <https://energyservices.org/psps/>
Peter's response applies. Ignore it at your own risk.
> On Tue, 4 Jul 2023 at 01:02:03, Ed P <e...@snet.xxx> wrote: (my responses
> usually follow points raised):
>> If you want 3 days on your CPAP you should be considering a generator
>> to charge the battery backup.
>
> The portable AC power inverter battery backup from the utility is free.
> <https://energyservices.org/psps/>
And "free" is not what you told us: "They offer the following
portable battery backup units, where I want
the most bang for the buck"
the most bang for the buck"
> And it fits in the bedroom closet and can be used in the bedroom.
> The generator is not.
Fine, argue. We're trying to help.
> The generator is not.
>
>> First thing to do is determine the load you will have.
>
> It's a "ResMed AirSense 10 Autoset" so the load is whatever that uses.
> Probably something like special 24VAC at probably something like 3.75 Amps.
>
> At least that's what it says for the 3-wire DC output for the CPAP machine.
shows the power requirements as:
90W power supply unit
AC input range: 100–240V, 50–60Hz 1.0–1.5A, Class II
115V, 400Hz 1.5A, Class II (nominal for aircraft use)
DC output: 24V 3.75A
Typical power consumption: 53W (57VA)
Peak power consumption: 104W (108VA)
The last two lines are the most pertinent for you.
Next, the manuals for the backup devices in the
link you provided give the following capacities
in ascending order:
yeti 500 505 wh
yet1 1000 983 wh
ecoflow 1008 wh
yet1 1500 1516 wh
yeti 3000 3075 wh
yeti 6000 6010 wh
The yeti 6000 will last longest.
They're using the symbol wh to indicate total power
in watts that the device can provide over time. For
example, the yeti 6000 should be able to provide
100 watts for 60 hours if their number is correct.
I hope that helps you understand the electrical specs.
As regards the specific use of these devices with
your CPAP, I can only quote the specs from the manuals.
I have no personal experience with any of the devices.
Ed
Peter W.
Jul 6, 2023, 11:58:44 AM7/6/23
to
> The yeti 6000 will last longest.
> They're using the symbol wh to indicate total power
> in watts that the device can provide over time. For
> example, the yeti 6000 should be able to provide
> 100 watts for 60 hours if their number is correct.
100 watts for 60 hours = a flat battery. Just a note to the effect that doing this even a few times to any UPS will destroy it. Let Mr. Gilliver find that out on its own. Certainly not from any suggestions received here.
Bob F
Jul 8, 2023, 11:13:05 PM7/8/23
to
On 7/3/2023 1:58 PM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
> What do you look for in a portable battery backup for medical devices
> (like CPAP)?
https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/ele/d/seattle-eg4-ll-24v-200ah-5120wh-lithium/7641279367.html
> What do you look for in a portable battery backup for medical devices
> (like CPAP)?
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