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Need advice on a neon transformer
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Brian Struckmeier
Jul 24, 2020, 12:27:38 PM7/24/20
to
I have new neon sign with a bad transformer (has a short and works sporadically), it is a 5kv 15MA transformer. I bought a new one that is 5kv 30ma and the neon fades towards the end of the run. It is nice and bright the whole run with the original transformer so I am assuming the 30ma vs 15ma is a problem.
Any advice, im having a hard time finding a 5kv 15ma replacement.
Any advice, im having a hard time finding a 5kv 15ma replacement.
John Robertson
Jul 24, 2020, 12:44:06 PM7/24/20
to
On 2020/07/24 9:27 a.m., Brian Struckmeier wrote:
> I have new neon sign with a bad transformer (has a short and works sporadically), it is a 5kv 15MA transformer. I bought a new one that is 5kv 30ma and the neon fades towards the end of the run. It is nice and bright the whole run with the original transformer so I am assuming the 30ma vs 15ma is a problem.
>
> Any advice, im having a hard time finding a 5kv 15ma replacement.
>
30ma is more available power, so it is better - the transformer will
> I have new neon sign with a bad transformer (has a short and works sporadically), it is a 5kv 15MA transformer. I bought a new one that is 5kv 30ma and the neon fades towards the end of the run. It is nice and bright the whole run with the original transformer so I am assuming the 30ma vs 15ma is a problem.
>
> Any advice, im having a hard time finding a 5kv 15ma replacement.
>
handle a larger load. Your transformer may not be putting out 5KV though...
This is where an AC/DC HV probe is handy. You can get 10:1 on eBay and
other sources. Look for ones that appear to be well insulated! If it
comes from China don't stand on a cement floor when using it!
John :-#)#
Adrian Tuddenham
Jul 24, 2020, 1:38:18 PM7/24/20
to
or overheating the tube so the neon pressure rises. Is there a
possibility that there is an adjustable magnetic shunt inside the
transformer that could be adjusted to reduce the current?
Please be careful - with those sorts of currents and voltages, your
first mistake could well be your last.
--
~ Adrian Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk
John Robertson
Jul 24, 2020, 2:20:37 PM7/24/20
to
On 2020/07/24 10:36 a.m., Adrian Tuddenham wrote:
> Brian Struckmeier <bstr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I have new neon sign with a bad transformer (has a short and works
>> sporadically), it is a 5kv 15MA transformer. I bought a new one that is
>> 5kv 30ma and the neon fades towards the end of the run. It is nice and
>> bright the whole run with the original transformer so I am assuming the
>> 30ma vs 15ma is a problem.
>>
>> Any advice, im having a hard time finding a 5kv 15ma replacement.
>
> The extra current may be damaging the electrodes and causing out-gassing
> or overheating the tube so the neon pressure rises. Is there a
> possibility that there is an adjustable magnetic shunt inside the
> transformer that could be adjusted to reduce the current?
>
> Please be careful - with those sorts of currents and voltages, your
> first mistake could well be your last.
>
>
Interesting, I did not realize that Neon transformers were current
> Brian Struckmeier <bstr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I have new neon sign with a bad transformer (has a short and works
>> sporadically), it is a 5kv 15MA transformer. I bought a new one that is
>> 5kv 30ma and the neon fades towards the end of the run. It is nice and
>> bright the whole run with the original transformer so I am assuming the
>> 30ma vs 15ma is a problem.
>>
>> Any advice, im having a hard time finding a 5kv 15ma replacement.
>
> The extra current may be damaging the electrodes and causing out-gassing
> or overheating the tube so the neon pressure rises. Is there a
> possibility that there is an adjustable magnetic shunt inside the
> transformer that could be adjusted to reduce the current?
>
> Please be careful - with those sorts of currents and voltages, your
> first mistake could well be your last.
>
>
limiting, behaving somewhat like a ballast on fluorescent lamps:
https://www.richieburnett.co.uk/ballast.html
--------------(quote)---------------------------------------
Neon sign transformers have built-in magnetic shunts which give current
limiting. In its intended use as a supply for neon tube, the high open
circuit voltage of the transformer is used to strike an arc in the neon
tube. Once an arc has formed inside the neon tube, the current must be
limited to prevent overheating of the neon tube and the transformer due
to excessive current flow. (The hotter the arc gets, the more current
flows, so it gets hotter etc…)
----------------(end quote)----------------------------------
Thanks for the info! Live and learn, eh?
John :-#)#
--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd.
MOVED to #7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3
(604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
Mike Coon
Jul 24, 2020, 2:29:04 PM7/24/20
to
In article <iPKdnZakvr_wu4bC...@giganews.com>,
sp...@flippers.com says...
power socket with its ballast resistor...
Mike.
sp...@flippers.com says...
>
> Interesting, I did not realize that Neon transformers were current
> limiting, behaving somewhat like a ballast on fluorescent lamps:
>
> https://www.richieburnett.co.uk/ballast.html
>
> --------------(quote)---------------------------------------
>
> Neon sign transformers have built-in magnetic shunts which give current
> limiting. In its intended use as a supply for neon tube, the high open
> circuit voltage of the transformer is used to strike an arc in the neon
> tube. Once an arc has formed inside the neon tube, the current must be
> limited to prevent overheating of the neon tube and the transformer due
> to excessive current flow. (The hotter the arc gets, the more current
> flows, so it gets hotter etc?)
> Interesting, I did not realize that Neon transformers were current
> limiting, behaving somewhat like a ballast on fluorescent lamps:
>
> https://www.richieburnett.co.uk/ballast.html
>
> --------------(quote)---------------------------------------
>
> Neon sign transformers have built-in magnetic shunts which give current
> limiting. In its intended use as a supply for neon tube, the high open
> circuit voltage of the transformer is used to strike an arc in the neon
> tube. Once an arc has formed inside the neon tube, the current must be
> limited to prevent overheating of the neon tube and the transformer due
> to excessive current flow. (The hotter the arc gets, the more current
>
> ----------------(end quote)----------------------------------
>
> Thanks for the info! Live and learn, eh?
>
> John :-#)#
Exactly like a grown-up version of your tiny neon pilot lamp in an AC
> ----------------(end quote)----------------------------------
>
> Thanks for the info! Live and learn, eh?
>
> John :-#)#
power socket with its ballast resistor...
Mike.
Phil Hobbs
Jul 24, 2020, 3:43:01 PM7/24/20
to
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com
John Robertson
Jul 24, 2020, 6:10:37 PM7/24/20
to
grandfather by his employees (E.L. Ruddy in Toronto) during the
depression (as Granny told me years ago). Stands about 14 inches tall
and is still working just fine. Haul it out every winter and plug it
into its base.
I can post a picture if anyone is interested...
John-Del
Jul 24, 2020, 9:53:34 PM7/24/20
to
John Robertson
Jul 24, 2020, 10:56:47 PM7/24/20
to
https://flippers.com/images/XmasNeonTree.JPG
Old photos, that don't show the metal base. All I have at the moment. It
is sitting on a 1929ish RCA radio, sitting on a 1920s radio speaker
cabinet. Photos taken almost twenty years ago.
John :-#)#
Mike Coon
Jul 25, 2020, 7:34:06 AM7/25/20
to
In article <w7ednSQeHN_6AobC...@giganews.com>,
sp...@flippers.com says...
Mike.
sp...@flippers.com says...
>
> >> I have a Neon Christmas tree (glass tube outline) that was made for
my
> >> grandfather by his employees (E.L. Ruddy in Toronto) during the
> >> depression (as Granny told me years ago). Stands about 14 inches tall
> >> and is still working just fine. Haul it out every winter and plug it
> >> into its base.
> >>
> >> I can post a picture if anyone is interested...
> >>
> >> John :-#)#
> >>
> >
> > I certainly wouldn't mind seeing it John.
> >
>
> https://flippers.com/images/XmasNeonSmokey.JPG
>
> https://flippers.com/images/XmasNeonTree.JPG
>
> Old photos, that don't show the metal base. All I have at the moment.
> It is sitting on a 1929ish RCA radio, sitting on a 1920s radio speaker
> cabinet. Photos taken almost twenty years ago.
> John :-#)#
How refreshing that the shape has an smidgen of randomness!
> >> I have a Neon Christmas tree (glass tube outline) that was made for
my
> >> grandfather by his employees (E.L. Ruddy in Toronto) during the
> >> depression (as Granny told me years ago). Stands about 14 inches tall
> >> and is still working just fine. Haul it out every winter and plug it
> >> into its base.
> >>
> >> I can post a picture if anyone is interested...
> >>
> >> John :-#)#
> >>
> >
> > I certainly wouldn't mind seeing it John.
> >
>
> https://flippers.com/images/XmasNeonSmokey.JPG
>
> https://flippers.com/images/XmasNeonTree.JPG
>
> Old photos, that don't show the metal base. All I have at the moment.
> It is sitting on a 1929ish RCA radio, sitting on a 1920s radio speaker
> cabinet. Photos taken almost twenty years ago.
> John :-#)#
Mike.
Bob Engelhardt
Jul 25, 2020, 8:04:39 AM7/25/20
to
On 7/25/2020 7:34 AM, Mike Coon wrote:
> How refreshing that the shape has an smidgen of randomness!
>
> Mike.
>
My thoughts exactly.
> How refreshing that the shape has an smidgen of randomness!
>
> Mike.
>
'Twere mine, I would put it up every year too. To remember grandpa and
because it's cool.
John Robertson
Jul 25, 2020, 12:32:22 PM7/25/20
to
Thanks,
John :-#)#
John-Del
Jul 25, 2020, 2:00:59 PM7/25/20
to
Nice. Did you ever consider building a lexan box to mount it in?
John Robertson
Jul 25, 2020, 5:59:29 PM7/25/20
to
On 2020/07/25 11:00 a.m., John-Del wrote:
>
> Nice. Did you ever consider building a lexan box to mount it in?
>
No, my family are careful around it and we no longer have a cat...
>
> Nice. Did you ever consider building a lexan box to mount it in?
>
I agree it would be very unfortunate if it ever broke.
John :-#)#
Cydrome Leader
Jul 25, 2020, 7:52:14 PM7/25/20
to
Brian Struckmeier <bstr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I have new neon sign with a bad transformer (has a short and works sporadically), it is a 5kv 15MA transformer. I bought a new one that is 5kv 30ma and the neon fades towards the end of the run. It is nice and bright the whole run with the original transformer so I am assuming the 30ma vs 15ma is a problem.
>
> Any advice, im having a hard time finding a 5kv 15ma replacement.
Well you're overloading the neon tube and may cause damage to it.
> I have new neon sign with a bad transformer (has a short and works sporadically), it is a 5kv 15MA transformer. I bought a new one that is 5kv 30ma and the neon fades towards the end of the run. It is nice and bright the whole run with the original transformer so I am assuming the 30ma vs 15ma is a problem.
>
> Any advice, im having a hard time finding a 5kv 15ma replacement.
I found some 4kV 15ma electronic power supplies online. Might work fine.
Fox's Mercantile
Jul 25, 2020, 9:48:55 PM7/25/20
to
That will limit the current to 15 mA.
However, the power rating needs to be in excess of 75 watts.
--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com
Michael Terrell
Jul 25, 2020, 10:26:00 PM7/25/20
to
As well as the constant high voltage.
Adrian Tuddenham
Jul 26, 2020, 5:19:24 AM7/26/20
to
John Robertson <sp...@flippers.com> wrote:
> On 2020/07/25 11:00 a.m., John-Del wrote:
> >
> > Nice. Did you ever consider building a lexan box to mount it in?
> >
>
> No, my family are careful around it and we no longer have a cat...
Did it rub against the transformer?
> On 2020/07/25 11:00 a.m., John-Del wrote:
> >
> > Nice. Did you ever consider building a lexan box to mount it in?
> >
>
> No, my family are careful around it and we no longer have a cat...
John Robertson
Jul 26, 2020, 8:55:40 PM7/26/20
to
On 2020/07/26 2:17 a.m., Adrian Tuddenham wrote:
> John Robertson <sp...@flippers.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2020/07/25 11:00 a.m., John-Del wrote:
>>>
>>> Nice. Did you ever consider building a lexan box to mount it in?
>>>
>>
>> No, my family are careful around it and we no longer have a cat...
>
> Did it rub against the transformer?
>
The photo doesn't show the chrome metal box that the transformer is
> John Robertson <sp...@flippers.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2020/07/25 11:00 a.m., John-Del wrote:
>>>
>>> Nice. Did you ever consider building a lexan box to mount it in?
>>>
>>
>> No, my family are careful around it and we no longer have a cat...
>
> Did it rub against the transformer?
>
mounted in. The HV outputs are in two chrome metal tubes that the tree
plugs into...
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