Simple tone control?

[DaveC]

I'd like to add a simple op amp-based tone control circuit to my preamp for
desktop speakers & sub that I'm modifying from stock.

This is the simplest I found:

<http://www.simplecircuitdiagram.com/2010/02/03/single-op-amp-tone-control/>

(I have +/- supplies so I will be eliminating all coupling caps and changing
Vcc/2 to ground.)

What are the positives and negatives to this design?

Better circuit (yet simple)?

Thanks.

[Phil Allison]

"DaveC"

** Too many crossposts by far.

>
> (I have +/- supplies so I will be eliminating all coupling caps and
> changing
> Vcc/2 to ground.)

** The TLC2272 IC specified has max +/- 5 volt supplies.




... Phil

[DaveC]

> ** The TLC2272 IC specified has max +/- 5 volt supplies.
> ... Phil

I guess I'll have to find another amp with wider V spec.

Thanks!

[William Sommerwerck]

This looks a lot like the kind of tone controls mass-market
consumer-electronics equipment has been using for the past 60 years.

I don't know /exactly/ what your plans are, but the 1kHz corner frequency is
about the worst possible if you're trying to correct errors in the speakers
you're designing.

Unless you want a "tone control" that produces shrill treble and boomy bass,
you need to move the treble corner up, and the bass down.

Furthermore, it would make sense to design the speakers first, and see what
sort of correction they need. There are plenty of inexpensive drivers with
relatively flat response (if you believe the spec sheets). Neither they nor
most recordings will need much in the way of correction, so the best tone
control would be one that supplies small amounts of boost and cut at the
frequency extremes.

Unless you're looking for lots of boom and sizzle.

There are plenty of op-amps with a wider voltage range -- the 5534 and
TL-074 come to mind, but these are rather old designs. I'm sure someone will
be able to recommend something newer.

[Phil Allison]

"William Sommerwanker "

>
> I don't know /exactly/ what your plans are, but the 1kHz corner frequency
> is
> about the worst possible if you're trying to correct errors in the
> speakers
> you're designing.
>
> Unless you want a "tone control" that produces shrill treble and boomy
> bass,
> you need to move the treble corner up, and the bass down.
>
> Furthermore, it would make sense to design the speakers first, and see
> what
> sort of correction they need. There are plenty of inexpensive drivers with
> relatively flat response (if you believe the spec sheets). Neither they
> nor
> most recordings will need much in the way of correction, so the best tone
> control would be one that supplies small amounts of boost and cut at the
> frequency extremes.
>
> Unless you're looking for lots of boom and sizzle.
>
> There are plenty of op-amps with a wider voltage range -- the 5534 and
> TL-074 come to mind, but these are rather old designs. I'm sure someone
> will
> be able to recommend something newer.
>

** Every single notion expressed by this congenital wanker is wrong.

In each case, the opposite is true.


.... Phil

[William Sommerwerck]

"Phil Allison" <phi...@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:9iut9l...@mid.individual.net...

> "William Sommerwerck"

When Mr Allison deigns to speak courteously, he is almost always a fount of
useful wisdom. (Seriously.)

But he is completely wrong. I have given good advice. Ignore it at your own
peril.

[NT]

On Nov 21, 3:53 am, DaveC <inva...@invalid.net> wrote:
> I'd like to add a simple op amp-based tone control circuit to my preamp for
> desktop speakers & sub that I'm modifying from stock.

It would really help to explain what you mean by that. 6" drivers in
wood cabs plus a 12" sub? Or 2.5" pc speakers plus a 4" sub? Very
different animals.

> This is the simplest I found:
>

> <http://www.simplecircuitdiagram.com/2010/02/03/single-op-amp-tone-con...>

>
> (I have +/- supplies so I will be eliminating all coupling caps and changing
> Vcc/2 to ground.)
>
> What are the positives and negatives to this design?

As said, the odds are the freq response wont match what you want. A 5
band graphic equaliser would be better, and is pretty aesy to make.

> Better circuit (yet simple)?
>
> Thanks.

If you wanted simplest, the circuit can be far simpler if you use the
existing amp's nfb path to simply insert treble & bass boost controls.

Bass boost: Pot and C in parallel in the nfb path,
Treble boost: Pot and C in series from nfb path to ground, after a
resistor.


NT

[DaveC]

> It would really help to explain what you mean by that. 6" drivers in
> wood cabs plus a 12" sub? Or 2.5" pc speakers plus a 4" sub? Very
> different animals.

<

http://www.harmankardon.com/EN-
US/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?PID=SOUNDSTICKS3AM>

The video is pure marketing.

I don't have these speakers, but I do have the original SoundSticks I which
are USB input devices (no analog input). I've converted them to analog input.

Looking for an op-amp-based filter circuit. Anybody have a favorite you can
link to? Or put up an ASCII or Spice diagram?

Thanks.

[Phil Allison]

"William Sommerwanker = Fuckwit Jerkoff "

>
> This looks a lot like the kind of tone controls mass-market
> consumer-electronics equipment has been using for the past 60 years.

** So totally proven to be the RIGHT kind for domestic audio.

> I don't know /exactly/ what your plans are, but the 1kHz corner frequency
> is
> about the worst possible if you're trying to correct errors in the
> speakers
> you're designing.

** Tone control are mostly used to alter the frequency balance of the
program material.

That is why they have knobs on the front panel......

> Unless you want a "tone control" that produces shrill treble and boomy
> bass,
> you need to move the treble corner up, and the bass down.

** The type of circuit shown has variable bass corner frequency and variable
slope treble.

> Furthermore, it would make sense to design the speakers first, and see
> what
> sort of correction they need.

** False assumption that they need any or that it is the main issue.

> so the best tone
> control would be one that supplies small amounts of boost and cut at the
> frequency extremes.

** Shame about deficiencies in the program itself.

> Unless you're looking for lots of boom and sizzle.

** Or have program lacking in both lows and highs - like many u-tube vids.

> There are plenty of op-amps with a wider voltage range -- the 5534 and
> TL-074 come to mind, but these are rather old designs.

** Both those are wrong for the job, the OP need a dual op-amp - so an
NE5532 or a TL072.

Both these are still the most widely used audio op-amps in the world.

> I'm sure someone will
> be able to recommend something newer.

** Only an audiophool wanker would.

And look who did.


.... Phil

[NT]

On Nov 21, 10:36 pm, DaveC <inva...@invalid.net> wrote:
> > It would really help to explain what you mean by that. 6" drivers in
> > wood cabs plus a 12" sub? Or 2.5" pc speakers plus a 4" sub? Very
> > different animals.
>
> <http://www.harmankardon.com/EN-
> US/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?PID=SOUNDSTICKS3AM>

nothing there

[William Sommerwerck]

Phil, learn something about audio.

[Phil Allison]

"William Sommerwanker = LYING PIG "

> Phil, learn something about audio.

** ROTFL !!

What an absurd irony.



... Phil

[DaveC]

http://www.harmankardon.com/EN-
US/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?PID=SOUNDSTICKS3AM

> nothing there

Yes there is. Maybe you have to copy & paste the URL, but it is valid.

[Phil Allison]

"DaveC"


http://www.harmankardon.com/EN-US/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?PID=SOUNDSTICKS3AM

>> nothing there
>
> Yes there is. Maybe you have to copy & paste the URL, but it is valid.

** The link leads to a home page and nothing else.



... Phil

[UnsteadyKen]

NT wrote...

> > <http://www.harmankardon.com/EN-
> > US/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?PID=SOUNDSTICKS3AM>
>
> nothing there

Nothing here either.

I think the HK site redirects if it doesn't think you are in the US.

UK version here
http://uk.harmankardon.com/harman-kardon-product-detail-uk/soundsticks-
iii.html

Recommended by the News Of the World:-)

--
Ken O'Meara
http://www.btinternet.com/~unsteadyken/

[Jeffrey Angus]

On 11/21/2011 11:47 PM, UnsteadyKen wrote:
>
> NT wrote...
>
>>> <http://www.harmankardon.com/EN-
>>> US/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?PID=SOUNDSTICKS3AM>
>>
>> nothing there
> Nothing here either.
>
> I think the HK site redirects if it doesn't think you are in the US.
>
> UK version here
> http://uk.harmankardon.com/harman-kardon-product-detail-uk/soundsticks-
> iii.html
>
> Recommended by the News Of the World:-)
>

You're links are broken/segmented.
<http://www.harmankardon.com/EN-US/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?PID=SOUNDSTICKS3AM>
Does work...

"Praised for its stunning design, the harman kardon® SoundSticks® II
speakers and subwoofer system became a milestone in harman kardon
history when it became part of the permanent collection at New York
City’s Museum of Modern Art (MoMA). Improving on its famous sibling’s
pop-culture appeal, the SoundSticks III system is all that and much
more. As a three-piece, 2.1-channel multimedia sound system, SoundSticks
III brings a new level of excitement to music, games and movies to your
home – with its exceptional sound clarity, enhanced color scheme and
bare minimum of wiring. Beyond its eye-catching appeal, SoundSticks III
continues to be incredibly capable – with 40 watts of dazzling
amplification, a down-firing powered subwoofer, eight full-range
transducers and compatibility with all sorts of multimedia devices. As
the sublime sequel to a prized performer, SoundSticks III is performance
art at its finest."

Only $169

Jeff-1.0

--
"Everything from Crackers to Coffins"

[Phil Allison]

"Jeffrey Angus"

> You're links are broken/segmented.
> <http://www.harmankardon.com/EN-US/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?PID=SOUNDSTICKS3AM>
> Does work...

** Not from outside the USA it don't.

And the UK one is the same.

How boring of them.


... Phil

[Jeffrey Angus]

On 11/22/2011 12:07 AM, Phil Allison wrote:
> "Jeffrey Angus"
>
>> You're links are broken/segmented.
>> <http://www.harmankardon.com/EN-US/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?PID=SOUNDSTICKS3AM>
>> Does work...
>
>
> ** Not from outside the USA it don't.
>
> And the UK one is the same.

Well that sucks, what's the point of that?

[Don Pearce]

On Tue, 22 Nov 2011 00:22:29 -0600, Jeffrey Angus <grend...@aim.com>
wrote:

>On 11/22/2011 12:07 AM, Phil Allison wrote:
>> "Jeffrey Angus"
>>
>>> You're links are broken/segmented.
>>> <http://www.harmankardon.com/EN-US/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?PID=SOUNDSTICKS3AM>
>>> Does work...
>>
>>
>> ** Not from outside the USA it don't.
>>
>> And the UK one is the same.
>
>Well that sucks, what's the point of that?
>
>Jeff-1.0

Just need a proxy within the USA - always useful to have one available
for every major country.

d

[Rich Grise]

DaveC wrote:
> This is the simplest I found:
<http://www.simplecircuitdiagram.com/2010/02/03/single-op-amp-tone-control/>

It looks bog-standard to me. Go ahead and use it and use your mind to go
on to greater things! :-)

Cheers!
Rich

[ChrisCoaster]

On Nov 21, 7:03 am, "William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgee...@comcast.net>
wrote:

>
> Unless you want a "tone control" that produces shrill treble and boomy bass,
> you need to move the treble corner up, and the bass down.
>

_________________
Is *that* why many boomboxes and home stereos(cheap ones) have a tone
knob labeled "Bass< >Treble"?

All I notices with those is that turning it to the left made the sound
muffled and to the right made the sound more tinny/hissy. I didn't
notice that the bass was being boosted when the knob turned left or
that it was being reduced when turned right.

-CC

[DaveC]

> Is *that* why many boomboxes and home stereos(cheap ones) have a tone
> knob labeled "Bass< >Treble"?
>
> All I notices with those is that turning it to the left made the sound
> muffled and to the right made the sound more tinny/hissy. I didn't
> notice that the bass was being boosted when the knob turned left or
> that it was being reduced when turned right.
>
> -CC

These pots on the circuit references aren't on a common shaft.

In other words, you can have muffled *and* tinny/hissy! ;-)

Dave

[Tauno Voipio]

On 21.11.11 5:53 , DaveC wrote:
> I'd like to add a simple op amp-based tone control circuit to my preamp for

> desktop speakers& sub that I'm modifying from stock.

>
> This is the simplest I found:
>
> <http://www.simplecircuitdiagram.com/2010/02/03/single-op-amp-tone-control/>
>
> (I have +/- supplies so I will be eliminating all coupling caps and changing
> Vcc/2 to ground.)
>
> What are the positives and negatives to this design?
>
> Better circuit (yet simple)?
>
> Thanks.
>

This is the classic Baxandall tone control.
There is plenty of material if Googling for
'baxandall'.

--

Tauno Voipio

[DaveC]

> This is the classic Baxandall tone control.
> There is plenty of material if Googling for
> 'baxandall'.

> Tauno Voipio

Thanks! It really helps to know what it's called... ;-)

This page:

<http://sound.westhost.com/dwopa2.htm>

says:
"
This circuit must be driven from a low impedance, so connecting it after the
volume control (for example) is a no-no. Ideally, the output of an opamp will
be the source, thus ensuring the required low impedance.
"
The input to this circuit will be the output of a computer's sound card. I
don't know if it's an opamp driving the output or not.

What do you suggest to insure driving by low impedance? Add a buffer opamp
(gain of 1) at the input of this circuit?

Thanks.

[Don Pearce]

The sound card output will be fine for driving this.

d

[Phil Allison]

"Tauno Voipio"
>
>> <http://www.simplecircuitdiagram.com/2010/02/03/single-op-amp-tone-control/>

>
> This is the classic Baxandall tone control.

** It's not actually.

Seems like a ballsed up version with missing resistors that will be become
unstable at full treble.

> There is plenty of material if Googling for
> 'baxandall'.

** And like most stuff on hobby web sites it is bunkum.

The "Baxandall" tone control design was published in Wireless World in
952 - it used valves. The network is different to the one in the link above
and produces variable turnover at both the high and low ends of the range.

http://www.novotone.be/_site/projets/Projet25/Baxandall%20WW.pdf



... Phil

[DaveC]

A general question:

Should pots used in the audio tone filter circuits be audio (log) taper? Or
does this apply only to volume pots?

Thanks.

[Don Pearce]

Linear

d

[Alex Pogossov]

"DaveC" <inv...@invalid.net> wrote in message
news:0001HW.CAEF0B2B...@news.eternal-september.org...

> I'd like to add a simple op amp-based tone control circuit to my preamp
> for

> desktop speakers & sub that I'm modifying from stock.

>
> This is the simplest I found:
>
> <http://www.simplecircuitdiagram.com/2010/02/03/single-op-amp-tone-control/>
>
> (I have +/- supplies so I will be eliminating all coupling caps and
> changing
> Vcc/2 to ground.)
>
> What are the positives and negatives to this design?
>
> Better circuit (yet simple)?
>
> Thanks.

This circuit, "mechanically" lifted from the tube era into op-amp
implementation, has a flaw:
If the treble control is set to maximum, then its gain is not limited at
+20dB at 10...20kHz, but keeps rising as far as the gain-bandwidth product
of the op-amp allows. Input impedance goes down accordingly. It might result
in Hf oscillations in the whole audio chain, even to burning the speakers
out if say you leave input unconnected and close to the speaker cable.

To fix the (potential) problem:
- insert 470R in series with the input 4.7uF capacitor or insert 470R
between the wiper of the treble control and the inverting input of the
op-amp;
- throw a 47pF cap from the op-amp output to the op-amp inverting input.