Microscopic Solder Job

[davepe...@gmail.com]

My Android Motorola G5 plus phone decided to take a dive into the washing machine for 20 minutes. I'm looking for somebody to repair and transplant my old memory chip into a new duplicate phone of the same model.

Or, if they can repair the phone itself to where it will boot up that's fine too, it just seems like it would be more of a headache. I replaced the battery and did a very light iso cleaning on the board.


It will require both equipment and experience out of my knowledge base. Anybody who has suggestion I would appreciate it. Whoever can take on this project will be compensated via PayPal.

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <11df313b-758d-4817...@googlegroups.com>,
davepe...@gmail.com says...

>
> My Android Motorola G5 plus phone decided to take a dive into the washing machine for 20 minutes. I'm looking for somebody to repair and transplant my old memory chip into a new duplicate phone of the same model.
>
> Or, if they can repair the phone itself to where it will boot up that's fine too, it just seems like it would be more of a headache. I replaced the battery and did a very light iso cleaning on the board.
>
>
> It will require both equipment and experience out of my knowledge base. Anybody who has suggestion I would appreciate it. Whoever can take on this project will be compensated via PayPal.

I don't know anything much about this place, but have seen some youtube
videos by her and microsoldering when I was teaching myself to so some
hot air soldering.

https://www.ifixit.com/User/About/739239/jessabethany

[whit3rd]

On Friday, January 19, 2018 at 6:48:53 AM UTC-8, davepe...@gmail.com wrote:
> My Android Motorola G5 plus phone decided to take a dive into the washing machine for 20 minutes. I'm looking for somebody to repair and transplant my old memory chip into a new duplicate phone of the same model.
>
> Or, if they can repair the phone itself to where it will boot up that's fine too, it just seems like it would be more of a headache. I replaced the battery and did a very light iso cleaning on the board.

Until you're sure the phone is dry, do NOT let it have a battery! The battery will
create corrosion.

Yank the battery, consider rinsing inner parts in isopropyl alcohol (it's slightly
drying), then air-blow or blot all the liquid out, and let it air-dry for a few
days, before you even THINK about applying power.

[dansabr...@yahoo.com]

Also, place this into a container with a desiccant (rice will work as well) This will absorb any remaining moisture.

To the original posting: It is possible to move the chip, but any residual current anywhere can cause the memory to change. This should be done in a static free environment with the appropriate equipment. Even so, there is a risk of losing the contents.

Dan

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per dansabr...@yahoo.com:

>Also, place this into a container with a desiccant (rice will work as well) This will absorb any remaining moisture.

Somebody, somewhere, suggested soaking it in distilled water prior to those
other steps.
--
Pete Cresswell

[rickman]

There is a lot of "information" about this sort of thing that is crap.
Regular water is used to clean PCBs when made to wash off the residue from
soldering. Water is not a problem other than when the unit is turned on,
any remaining moisture acts to short out the signals. It doesn't fry chips
or cause permanent damage unless it gets into the display or is left long
enough to cause corrosion.

The only real problem is residual water that gets under the ICs and other
components. There can be a space as small as 5 thousandths of an inch which
is not so easy to clean out. If you want to use anything to clean the board
of water you can wash it with acetone, but NOT the stuff used for nail
polish removal, it has oil in it. Get some from the paint department. But
even that is not needed, nor are desiccants or rice. Unless you live in a
very humid location the unit will dry out in a couple of days. The best
spot for it is near the vent from your furnace or AC. That air is very dry
and having moving air around the phone helps to move the moisture away
quicker. Probably not the best idea to put it on top of the vent as it may
get too warm, but unless you have a gas or oil furnace that isn't likely to
happen, still give it a few inches.

--

Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per rickman:

>There is a lot of "information" about this sort of thing that is crap.
>Regular water is used to clean PCBs when made to wash off the residue from
>soldering.

IIRC, the rationale was that different water has different amounts of
dissolved salts... and the salts can cause electrical problems even after the
board is dried... so the distilled water would dilute any salts that might be
present.
--
Pete Cresswell

[rickman]

Yes, I suppose if you drop your phone in salt water, that could be a
different problem.

[tabb...@gmail.com]

correct, and of course nearly all water has some salts in.
And it also ought to be obvious that there is always powered circuitry in all modern phones.


NT

[rickman]

Why is power relevant? We are talking about drying a phone. The battery
will be out, the SIM card will be out and of course the cover is off. What
is the significance of either the tiny amount of "salts" in typical water.
Actually, the phone was run through the washing machine. The
soaps/detergents in the water are much more of a factor than the latent
dissolved solids in the tap water. I would recommend the OP rinse the phone
under running tap water for five or ten minutes to get all the wash water
out. The tap water won't hurt *anything* in comparison, in fact it will be
like a person going to the spa.

[pf...@aol.com]

On Saturday, January 20, 2018 at 9:32:21 PM UTC-5, rickman wrote:

> Why is power relevant? We are talking about drying a phone. The battery
> will be out, the SIM card will be out and of course the cover is off. What
> is the significance of either the tiny amount of "salts" in typical water.
> Actually, the phone was run through the washing machine. The
> soaps/detergents in the water are much more of a factor than the latent
> dissolved solids in the tap water. I would recommend the OP rinse the phone
> under running tap water for five or ten minutes to get all the wash water
> out. The tap water won't hurt *anything* in comparison, in fact it will be
> like a person going to the spa.

Ricky!!

Are you trying to be obtuse, or is it your natural state? Tap water:

Up at our summer house, the tap water is from a shallow well, from an aquifer that is about 8' deep during a dry summer, and filtered through many feet of ground on the 'fill' side of a fast-running, rock-bound creek. Effectively, that means "Coarse sand to China". There are very few dissolved minerals nor much of anything else in that water. We filter it for silt, and we use a carbon filter 'just in case'. Year after year after year (now over 30) it tests negative for bacteria and so forth. Rinsing something in that water would be relatively low risk.

At home, the water is 10,000 year old deep-well water provided by the local utility mixed with Schuylkill River water, with a varying hardness from about 6 grains to 16 grains per gallon. 3.5 - 7 grains is considered moderately hard. 16 is 'cut it into chunks' range.

Using this water from the tap would be dangerous in the extreme.

Going to a Spa: If the two hot tubs we keep are any indication, that water will be highly mineralized - WAY up there in calcium. This is done to protect against corrosion amongst other things. Water from such a source would leave a white film when it evaporates - which would be mostly calcium. We choose to use calcium as when we drain the spa, it is not harmful, and happens to be good for certain types of native trees that are now stressed in Pennsylvania. pH neutral, highly mineralized water happens to be good for human skin, but would be pretty wretched for cell phones.

Sources of "power" in cell-phones with neither batteries nor chips:

Can you say "electrolysis"? And if you can say it, do you understand how it works, at least in theory? And, past the theory, do you have the capacity to conceive of how it might be a factor in a device with many different types of metals, surrounded with a highly salted electrolyte?

An aside to that - does anyone here remember the old-fashioned electrolysing humidifiers? Basically a Mason Jar with a plug-in Bakelite device on top that relied on the conductivity of the water to operate?

https://i.pinimg.com/564x/8b/16/cd/8b16cdc79502244129bfb85f09755820--respiratory-therapy-electrical-cord.jpg

These do not work at our summer house - and work fine at home.

Just like you jumped into the discussion on UV and eyes, with a "look-at-me, aren't I smart" - that was not, this is another similar 'contribution' born of a fundamental lack of knowledge and a need to play 'me-to'.

God help anyone that takes your advice to heart.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

[John Robertson]

On 2018/01/21 5:22 AM, pf...@aol.com wrote:
> On Saturday, January 20, 2018 at 9:32:21 PM UTC-5, rickman wrote:
>
>> Why is power relevant? We are talking about drying a phone. The battery
>> will be out, the SIM card will be out and of course the cover is off. What

>> is the significance of either the tiny amount of "salts" in typical water..

Thanks Peter, saved me saying much the same thing as indeed not all tap
water has not the same conductivity.

Rats, I did say it.

John ;-#)#

[Terry Schwartz]

At my last company, I spent the better part of my last 4 or 5 years dealing with water conductivity issues. We produced machines that electrolyzed water into base and acid components in order to produce cleaning chemicals.

I visited customer sites all over the US and in several foreign countries in order to deal with water conductivity issues. Water conductivity is measured in micro-siemens. The lower the number, the less conductive the water. Distilled water was generally (not always) in the neighborhood of 1 to 10 micro-siemens and was our baseline for this work. Normal tap water could easily range from 50 - 70 micro-siemens to many hundreds of micro-siemens, or even greater.

The highest (natural) conductivity we encountered was in a Home Depot warehouse in upstate New York, where the building was drawing it's water from a well, and the well was basically under a catch basin for road runoff. If I recall correctly, the level in that installation was on the order of 9000 micro-siemens. You could literally taste the salt. And on top of that, they had installed a bleach injection system in order to keep the fixtures from getting stained, and the water from stinking. Don't drink that water.

I had designed the circuit board that electrolyzed the water, and had done so to accommodate a wide range of conductivity, but the challenge was always at the extremes. Too conductive, and the system would go over current and shut down. Not conductive enough, and we couldn't pass enough current thru it to cause electrolysis effectively. I developed solutions for both extremes, but at operational trade-offs of course.

Interestingly, when we analyzed water samples, the source the conductivity was frequently different from site to site. And what we think of conventionally as "hardness" didn't always correlate to conductivity.

[tabb...@gmail.com]

I'd be interested to find out about the production of the cleaning chemicals.


NT

[Terry Schwartz]

> I'd be interested to find out about the production of the cleaning chemicals.
>
>
> NT

NT, feel free to google Orbio and Tennant ECH2O. Email me with questions if you'd like.

Terry

[Tim R]

On Saturday, January 20, 2018 at 9:32:21 PM UTC-5, rickman wrote:

> Why is power relevant? We are talking about drying a phone. The battery
> will be out, the SIM card will be out and of course the cover is off. What

A large percentage of modern phones (and cameras, and similar devices) no longer have a removable battery.

I know several people who have run a phone or a fitbit through the wash machine. None were able to save it.

Is there any paper inside a phone, like there is in a computer or a keyboard?

[pf...@aol.com]

On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 8:08:41 AM UTC-5, Tim R wrote:

> A large percentage of modern phones (and cameras, and similar devices) no longer have a removable battery.

As a vintage radio hobbyist that also dabbles in vintage audio, when it comes to some specimens, the Bosch dishwasher (made in Tennessee, USA) has become my best friend. Items that have been flooded, moused or otherwise damaged often respond very well to the process. As Bosch uses an indirect heating and drying system, there is no direct exposure to the heating element. So far, several tube TransOceanic radios, a few solid-state tuners and other electronics flooded at our summer house, and any number of vintage radio chassis have gone through with only good results. Paper items and speakers are removed, IF transformers are flushed and sealed prior to the start and if there are wax-covered coils the unit goes on the top rack.

But, none of this stuff uses SMT technology with extremely dense multi-layer boards as are most cell-phones and other wearable technology.

We are in a throw-away world, where the skills necessary to repair something like a FitBit exceed its value. Often by a considerable margin. I think that is what is most frustrating to the average user here. No amount of human skills or repair-bench tooling is going to equal what a robot can pack into a few square millimeters of board, much less be able to repair/replace individual components within that board.

[rickman]

tabb...@gmail.com wrote on 1/22/2018 4:21 PM:
> On Monday, 22 January 2018 20:56:52 UTC, Terry Schwartz wrote:
>> At my last company, I spent the better part of my last 4 or 5 years dealing with water conductivity issues. We produced machines that electrolyzed water into base and acid components in order to produce cleaning chemicals.

<<< snip >>>

> I'd be interested to find out about the production of the cleaning chemicals.

I can tell you it wasn't from electrolysis of water. That produces hydrogen
(H2) and oxygen (O2), not acid and base. Anything else would have to come
from additives to the water.

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Thursday, 25 January 2018 04:58:09 UTC, rickman wrote:

> tabbypurr wrote on 1/22/2018 4:21 PM:
> > On Monday, 22 January 2018 20:56:52 UTC, Terry Schwartz wrote:
> >> At my last company, I spent the better part of my last 4 or 5 years dealing with water conductivity issues. We produced machines that electrolyzed water into base and acid components in order to produce cleaning chemicals.
> <<< snip >>>
> > I'd be interested to find out about the production of the cleaning chemicals.
>
> I can tell you it wasn't from electrolysis of water. That produces hydrogen
> (H2) and oxygen (O2), not acid and base. Anything else would have to come
> from additives to the water.

it's saltwater.

I'm curious when this was patented, if it was.


NT

[rickman]

Not really. All water has contaminants. The water he has mentioned was
fresh water with more or less contaminants. Still, it wouldn't be described
as electrolysis of (salt)water if the interesting part was the contaminants.
It would be described as the interesting bits dissolved in water.

[pf...@aol.com]

Apropos electrolysis and water, way back in the day in high-school, my chemistry teacher showed us how to make Hydrogen peroxide using electrolysis. It was crude and not very efficient, and wasteful of resources.

Today, not so much.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A%3A1017588221369

Under controlled conditions, other products are also possible. I suspect that is what Tennant was doing.

Side Note: This teacher partnered with several of the history teachers. He had us collect 'night soil' to make gunpowder when we were studying the Civil War, we had to learn the 'secret code' whereby one could identify an American anywhere, any time (this _was_ the 1960s, remember), and we had to learn the ten (10) reindeer. In any case, a lot of very basic and very useful chemistry and applied science has stuck with me over the years.

[Terry Schwartz]

Apparently anyone can be an expert on things they do not understand.

[Fox's Mercantile]

On 1/25/18 8:06 AM, Terry Schwartz wrote:
> Apparently anyone can be an expert on things they do not understand.
>

As Rickman and Oldschool constantly prove.


--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com

[whit3rd]

On Thursday, January 25, 2018 at 12:15:30 AM UTC-8, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, 25 January 2018 04:58:09 UTC, rickman wrote:
> > tabbypurr wrote on 1/22/2018 4:21 PM:
> > > On Monday, 22 January 2018 20:56:52 UTC, Terry Schwartz wrote:
> > >> At my last company, I spent the better part of my last 4 or 5 years dealing with water conductivity issues. We produced machines that electrolyzed water into base and acid components in order to produce cleaning chemicals.

> it's saltwater.
>
> I'm curious when this was patented, if it was.

It's where lye and chlorine bleach come from.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloralkali_process>

and has been an industrial process since the 1890s. I'm sure there's bunches
of patents...

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Thursday, 25 January 2018 13:11:51 UTC, rickman wrote:

Are you trying to be stupid today?

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Thursday, 25 January 2018 18:56:15 UTC, whit3rd wrote:

thanks, I'd forgotten that.


NT

[pf...@aol.com]

On Thursday, January 25, 2018 at 11:30:48 AM UTC-5, Fox's Mercantile wrote:

>
> As Rickman and Oldschool constantly prove.

Much as I hate to admit it, Oldschool does display actual curiosity, and some capacity for learning.

To the extent that I take any time at it at all, I still wonder if Ricky is any of these:

12 years old, or less. This would cover it all.
Deep into the spectrum. However, these sorts tend to be savants at something.
Really that ignorant, or just tweaking us.

[Fox's Mercantile]

On 1/25/18 1:19 PM, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:
> Are you trying to be stupid today?

Unfortunately, that's his default setting.