Wired, outdoor PC cameras?

[micky]

I wanted to get some waterproof/outdoor cameras that plugged into the
PC, or maybe something that connected straight to the PC.

But all I see for sale are cameras meant to clip to the monitor, not be
screwed to the wall.

Or if they are meant for outside, they are either wifi or they are meant
to go to some sort of separate video recorder.

Do they sell what I want?

I'm not worried about burglars or porch thieves, I just want to look at
my yard when I'm inside. There is some wildlife that spend time there,
but I have no window on that side of the room I spend a lot of time in,
and even if there wwere I window, I'd have to stand up, leave my work at
my desk, stand on the bed and look down at the yard. I want to be able
to watch on the PC monitor instead. --- If I went outside, most of the
animals would run away

I hoped to have 3 cameras**. A real bonus would be if I could do
something like run all 3 into one hub and just run one wire through the
window frame or wall. (Darn, I found what they call a waterproof
enclosure for a 4-port hub, but it's showing just a regular $10 hub and
a box without only one usb jack. By Sabrent but Amazon has no ratings
and no Q&A. I'll keep looking, or make my own?)

It it possible to cut the the USB connector off of a cord, slide the
wire through a hole, cut the wire to the desired length, and reattach a
USB conector?

**One facing the front, one to the right of that, and one mounted a foot
or two away, around the corner of the house, facing the side yard.

[Big Al]

Run the cable through wall, you could cut the usb cable, near the plug, but leave enough to pick the wires to splice.
If you're lucky, and the wires are uniquely colored, it would be just time to strip the ends of each wire, slip a small
shrink tube over one of the ends, solder red to red (or whatever), slide the shrink tube over the splice and heat it.
If your not lucky, you screwed the cable.

No idea about the hub.

[Carlos E. R.]

On 19/12/2022 18.09, micky wrote:

> It it possible to cut the the USB connector off of a cord, slide the
> wire through a hole, cut the wire to the desired length, and reattach a
> USB conector?

USB 2, yes. Just 4 wires.


Most mildly remote cameras run on network, either wifi or ethernet.
Possibly powered ethernet variety. A USB cable has to be very short.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

[micky]

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Mon, 19 Dec 2022 12:24:47 -0500, Big Al

<Be...@invalid.com> wrote:

>
>> It it possible to cut the the USB connector off of a cord, slide the
>> wire through a hole, cut the wire to the desired length, and reattach a
>> USB conector?
>>
>> **One facing the front, one to the right of that, and one mounted a foot
>> or two away, around the corner of the house, facing the side yard.
>Run the cable through wall, you could cut the usb cable, near the plug, but leave enough to pick the wires to splice.
>If you're lucky, and the wires are uniquely colored, it would be just time to strip the ends of each wire, slip a small
>shrink tube over one of the ends, solder red to red (or whatever), slide the shrink tube over the splice and heat it.
>If your not lucky, you screwed the cable.

Yes, that's a much better idea that what was floating in my head, buying
a USB plug. Cutting the wire and then splicing it is much simpler and
will look better.

>No idea about the hub.

I guess I can use a standard $10 hub and buy a plain box, and do all the
assembly and testing in one room before attaching anything outside.
Hmmm. Because the downspout is in the way, I was going to have to make a
box for the camera to stand on. It can hold the waterproof box too. Two
layers of waterproofity.

[Peter]

Many of these are wireless. Maybe one of the following would do for you?

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/video-surveillance-systems/outdoor-security-cameras/pcmcat1515445352153.c?id=pcmcat1515445352153

[micky]

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Mon, 19 Dec 2022 18:25:50 +0100, "Carlos

E. R." <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:

>On 19/12/2022 18.09, micky wrote:
>
>> It it possible to cut the the USB connector off of a cord, slide the
>> wire through a hole, cut the wire to the desired length, and reattach a
>> USB conector?
>
>USB 2, yes. Just 4 wires.

Amazing how much they do with only 4 wires.

>Most mildly remote cameras run on network, either wifi or ethernet.
>Possibly powered ethernet variety. A USB cable has to be very short.

The bedroom/office is only 10 feet x 8 feet (from the front wall to the
PC) plus 5 feet up from the desk to the ceiling, plus 2-4 feet for the
camera leads. 25 to 27 feet. I first say what I've been calling
amplifed cables at Monoprice. But I think they are called repeater
cables.

https://www.amazon.com/Female-Active-Repeater-Extension-50FT-15M/dp/B0777FDCX7/ref=asc_df_B0777FDCX7/

50 feet for $21! (BTW, your English is great, you must be able to
think in English, but does that mean that feet and miles are real things
to you or do you have to convert them to meters?)

I think I already have a cable like this, just in case I needed one.

(Even though Baltimore suburbs are growing, wildlife seems to be
increasing. There have been coyote sightings closer to downtown than I
live, and a bear sighting only about 5 miles farther out of town. But
mostly it's deer, and conceivably a fox. I should have done this 10
years ago, but it wasn't until people were posting pictures of the
wildlife in their own yard that I got jealous. I'm 75, but if I really
fix up this place with wildlife cameras, I'll never want to leave.

[Peter W.]

https://www.amazon.com/KEEN-Cellular-Wireless-Outdoor-Activated/dp/B0B84ZV62P/

Perhaps a bit more 'spendy' than what you want - but with night vision, no wires, high resolution, pan/tilt/zoom. That it is expensive may be countered by the fact that it is flexible and you might just need 'one' of it.

There are multiple similar options.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

[Big Al]

I'm in Crofton area, we get dear all the time. They eat our hostas all the time. I too think about a motion sensitive
setup with night vision to catch them. Could be a rabit, but one hosta 70 feet away is about 3 ft tall, so kinda
eliminates the rabbits.
Al

[Big Al]

I was scaling it down in price to something like this.
https://www.amazon.com/Security-Wireless-Detection-Weatherproof-Spotlight/dp/B09P1D9GD5

First hit, I don't need the talk though.

[micky]

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Mon, 19 Dec 2022 12:58:10 -0500, Peter

Thanks.

The 4th one (5 cameras) and the 8th (3 cameras) are the same and the
same price that Amazon has them. I was very excited about them. They
have what is described as a 2-year battery, but one reviewer said that
in the front of his house, with a lot of traffic he has to replace the
batteries every month or two!! I have almost no human traffic and only
occaional animals, and he said in his back yard, he had to replace the
batteries once or twice a year.

I know myself. I will do this once or twice, and that will be the end.
And that's assuming I can get to the camera with an 8 foot ladder.

(Well, in the back I could mount one just below the window. That would
work well. So maybe I should buy oone at least. the prices are
interesting. Amazon charges 50 for 1, 100 for 2, 150 for 3 (same price
as bestbuy for 3), but then only charges 20 extra for the 4th and 5th,
getting to the same price, 190 for 5**. But Amazon will include a Show
5 monitor for 10 dollars more (They sell alone for 35!) So I thought I'd
have 2 extra cameras for when some broke, and I was all excited until I
read about replacing the batteries.

-- Aha, Bestbuy has 3 cameras with the Show 5 for only 10 dollars more.
I thought maybe they were dumping an old model, but I think it is the
current model. I still think they are dumping them because a new model
is coming out. I learned my lessen when I bought a PC Jr. I paid 1100
dolars but the list was 100 more, and very soon after I bought mine they
came out with the PC XT, a real computer. (To save the 100, you had to
have 20 or maybe 10 proofs of purchas from Kleenex or Kimberly Clark
products. I had two or three, and as the week was coming to a close, so
I could go shopping on the weekend, I went around the office after 5PM
cutting out proofs of purchase from people's boxes of Kleenex. I didn't
ask permission but I don't think anyone planned to buy a PCJr.

**They seemed to have been, or I jumped to the conclusion that was the
Black Friday price, but it has lasted.)

That's when I started looking at solar powered, but they are more
expensive, I didn't find many in black (to be unobtrusive on my brown
house), and two of them would be on the north side of the house -- don't
know how much sun they get. (A lot of the cameras are white, and I
think there are a lot of white houses, but also a lot of people want the
camera to be obtrusive, to scare burglars away. We don't get many
burglars here and I have nothing to steal, and for other reasons, I'm
not too worked about burglars.)

So then I searched more and posted here.

[micky]

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Mon, 19 Dec 2022 12:58:10 -0500, Peter
<Hapily...@fakeaddress.com> wrote:

Posted too soon. They do have wired ones, in black even. (See the
best one below****)

And by Ring, which surprises me because I looked at "similar products'
on tha Amazon page, but all the similar products they had were wireless,
which makes sense, but still surprises me since the same brand has
wired. "Brand" is an element of similarity.

140 to 260 each. Much more expensive, considereing it doesn't have to
have solar cells or wifi. Ah. It does have wifi. It's wired only because
they have flood lights. No wifi floodlights exist yet. Of course
floodlights will scare away the wildlife.

(Plus I did put a motion activated LED floodlight on the side of the
house, and unfortunately it's on all night. I don't think there was any
switch to set it otherwise, and it's 24 feet high. I'd better check with
my neighbor who watches my yard from his balcony if my floodlight,
installed 15 months ago, has scared away the deer. (I already asked him
the light bothered him and he said he liked it.)


****BUT your page also has SVPRO Outdoor USB 1080p full HD waterproof
night vision WIRED for $54!! In black. This might be perfect.
Didn't find it on Amazon iirc using wired usb camera . But they
have it:
https://www.amazon.com/SVPRO-Outdoor-Waterproof-Surveillance-Android/dp/B07C2RL8PB/ref=sr_1_1

Something to be said for a store that sells fewer things, easier to find
what you want.

This one has a 5 meter cable, not enough, but only 3 meters short. If
I use 3 cameras. I guess I can shorten the 5-meters to 1 meter.

"Android" scared me for a second ubut it's for Windows, Mac, Android and
Linux. Does that mean it doesn't work with iPhones? There are a lot of
things that work with iPhones but not Android. Someone said that was
because iOS is standardized and Android is not.

I wish it weren't winter. I think I'm ready to go now, just have to
rent or borrow a ladder. (And maybe lose some weight so I won't wobble
too much on the ladder!)

[Graham J]

micky wrote:
> I wanted to get some waterproof/outdoor cameras that plugged into the
> PC, or maybe something that connected straight to the PC.
>
> But all I see for sale are cameras meant to clip to the monitor, not be
> screwed to the wall.
>
> Or if they are meant for outside, they are either wifi or they are meant
> to go to some sort of separate video recorder.
>
> Do they sell what I want?

[snip]

A camera using Ethernet would be ideal: it connects to your LAN so is
available from any computer. A camera featuring Power over Ethernet
(PoE) would allow use of a single cable. Ethernet allows a maximum
cable length of 100 metres, so far better than any USB connection.

You can run Ethernet cables through walls - drill a 6mm hole to poke the
cable through. Then fix a socket to the wall - each side - into which
to terminate the cable, and test the finished connection. Use
professionally made patch cables to connect from the outside socket to
the camera, and from the inside socket to your router or network switch.
That way when you break the barb off the RJ45 connector you simply
replace the patch cable.

I aske a similar question here a while back and was recommended:

https://reolink.com/gb/product/e1-outdoor/

At the time they didn't offer a PoE camera - they might now.


--
Graham J

[micky]

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Mon, 19 Dec 2022 13:58:33 -0500, Big Al

Crofton is about 30 miles from me (right between DC and Annapolis for
the rest of you.)

If you can get video of a 3-foot rabbit, you'll be famous.

SVPRO is 4 stars on only 53 ratings. with motions sensor, but no
fwiw audio. and no visible spotlights like LaView has, but IR LEDs

Almost the same camera at about the smae price is called Ifwater 2, but
only 4 ratings, only 2.5 stars. Unusually low, huh?

There is also LaView at four for $110. about half the price of the other
two brands. Also wired. 4.3 stars on 948 ratings. Not convince this
is better than SVPRO, because people's expectations are lower when the
price is lower. (as in most cases they should be.) With audio, now I
have to go back and look if the other has audio, even though the deer
don't say much. Also has motion dectetor, which, optionally it appears,
turns on spotlights at night. Spotlights will give colored night
visiion, but will scare away the animals. Probably can be turned off.

I also have to think about motion detection. I guess "AI human
detection" is that. But maybe I could ignore that for now.

Can't give actualy links because these are all on the other computer.

Can I assume the 50 dollar one is better than the 25 dollar one?



Also Noorio at $130, only in white, only wifi, but instant magnetic
installation. Battery powered, not for me.

Also JVC KY-PZ510NBU with autotracking!!! Wired, Only $3799! No
ratings.

[Carlos E. R.]

On 19/12/2022 19.07, micky wrote:
> In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Mon, 19 Dec 2022 18:25:50 +0100, "Carlos
> E. R." <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 19/12/2022 18.09, micky wrote:
>>
>>> It it possible to cut the the USB connector off of a cord, slide the
>>> wire through a hole, cut the wire to the desired length, and reattach a
>>> USB conector?
>>
>> USB 2, yes. Just 4 wires.
>
> Amazing how much they do with only 4 wires.
>
>> Most mildly remote cameras run on network, either wifi or ethernet.
>> Possibly powered ethernet variety. A USB cable has to be very short.
>
> The bedroom/office is only 10 feet x 8 feet (from the front wall to the
> PC) plus 5 feet up from the desk to the ceiling, plus 2-4 feet for the
> camera leads. 25 to 27 feet. I first say what I've been calling
> amplifed cables at Monoprice. But I think they are called repeater
> cables.
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Female-Active-Repeater-Extension-50FT-15M/dp/B0777FDCX7/ref=asc_df_B0777FDCX7/
>
> 50 feet for $21! (BTW, your English is great, you must be able to
> think in English, but does that mean that feet and miles are real things
> to you or do you have to convert them to meters?)

I lived in Canada for a bit :-)

I can think in English, with some limitations, even dream in English
some times. Easier if at the time I'm staying in Canada. I can not
follow all the conversations on tv or movies, a percent I miss. I need
the help of subtitles to help me with those. I have difficulties with
video conferences, I need to get acquainted with each person accent.

Reading and writing are far easier. I read a lot in English, and that
makes a big difference on any language.


No, feet and miles are not real to me :-p

one foot, one inch, that's ok. Multiples, no. Miles, even less. What
miles, nautical, land, British, American?

>
> I think I already have a cable like this, just in case I needed one.
>
> (Even though Baltimore suburbs are growing, wildlife seems to be
> increasing. There have been coyote sightings closer to downtown than I
> live, and a bear sighting only about 5 miles farther out of town. But
> mostly it's deer, and conceivably a fox. I should have done this 10
> years ago, but it wasn't until people were posting pictures of the
> wildlife in their own yard that I got jealous. I'm 75, but if I really
> fix up this place with wildlife cameras, I'll never want to leave.

Wild boars are the only things we see in the outskirts of some cities.
Sometimes they get lost or scared and get further into town. There may
be rabbits.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

[chop]

On Tue, 20 Dec 2022 04:09:39 +1100, micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com> wrote:

> I wanted to get some waterproof/outdoor cameras that plugged into the
> PC, or maybe something that connected straight to the PC.
>
> But all I see for sale are cameras meant to clip to the monitor, not be
> screwed to the wall.
>
> Or if they are meant for outside, they are either wifi or they are meant
> to go to some sort of separate video recorder.
>
> Do they sell what I want?

Yep, you are free to use the ones which normally go to some sort of
video recorder direct to your PC if you want.

> I'm not worried about burglars or porch thieves, I just want to look at
> my yard when I'm inside. There is some wildlife that spend time there,
> but I have no window on that side of the room I spend a lot of time in,
> and even if there wwere I window, I'd have to stand up, leave my work at
> my desk, stand on the bed and look down at the yard. I want to be able
> to watch on the PC monitor instead. --- If I went outside, most of the
> animals would run away
>
> I hoped to have 3 cameras**. A real bonus would be if I could do
> something like run all 3 into one hub and just run one wire through the
> window frame or wall. (Darn, I found what they call a waterproof
> enclosure for a 4-port hub, but it's showing just a regular $10 hub and
> a box without only one usb jack. By Sabrent but Amazon has no ratings
> and no Q&A. I'll keep looking, or make my own?)
>
> It it possible to cut the the USB connector off of a cord, slide the
> wire through a hole, cut the wire to the desired length, and reattach a
> USB conector?

Yep but it is better not to and use a camera with a Cat5/6 feed instead.

[chop]

And better to use proper surveillance cameras so it can ping you
when movement happens in a marked section of the screen so you
dont have to have a separate monitor for the cameras so you notice
when wildlife shows up.

[Peeler]

On Tue, 20 Dec 2022 08:45:01 +1100, chop, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--
R Souls addressing the trolling senile Australian cretin:
"Your opinions are unwelcome and worthless. Now fuck off."
MID: <urs8jh59laqeeb0se...@4ax.com>

[Paul]

Yes, a POE wired camera.

This will give you a face, for the police department. You can't use
low res, over a wide field, and give a policeman a 3x3 pixel face photo.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1618720-REG/axis_communications_01598_001_p3248_lve_4k_outdoor_network.html/overview

"Power

Power Source PoE 802.3af (15 W), PoE 802.3at (30 W)
Power Consumption 8.6 W
"

You might need an injector, to send power from the house, as
not a lot of cheap home networking gear has POE as an option.

Since it is Ethernet, it goes as far as Ethernet goes.

That camera can dump to a NAS.

And it doesn't have to fill an 18TB drive with "pictures
of brown grass", as it has motion detection and classification.
It has 2GB of RAM inside, which is a hint what is hiding in there.
A copy of Tetris. And it plays Tetris, while you sleep.

(HAL9000)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wy4EfdnMZ5g

Paul

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 19 Dec 2022 20:58:02 +0000, Graham J

<nob...@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:

>micky wrote:
>> I wanted to get some waterproof/outdoor cameras that plugged into the
>> PC, or maybe something that connected straight to the PC.
>>
>> But all I see for sale are cameras meant to clip to the monitor, not be
>> screwed to the wall.
>>
>> Or if they are meant for outside, they are either wifi or they are meant
>> to go to some sort of separate video recorder.
>>
>> Do they sell what I want?
>
>[snip]
>
>A camera using Ethernet would be ideal: it connects to your LAN so is
>available from any computer.

I only have a desktop and a laptop but still, that would be good.

> A camera featuring Power over Ethernet
>(PoE) would allow use of a single cable.

But if I have 3 cameras, I will still need 3 cables?? But just one
power injector??

> Ethernet allows a maximum
>cable length of 100 metres, so far better than any USB connection.

I only need 7 or 8 meters. (Decided to put the cameras 8 feet high
instead of 17 feet.)

So I was thinking that USB would be good enough, but then.... I had in
mind 3 cameras with a hub in a waterproof box outside, and only one USB
cable entering the house. Until I read that all three cameras have to
share the same the same power that one USB port puts out. If my USB
ports have 0.5 amps, that leaves only 0.16 amp for each camera. Would
that be enough? Even close to enough?

Because if I don't have to, I don't want to spend more than $150 or 200,
this is the leading POE camera
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0B72BHL2F/ref=ewc_pr_img_7
and this is the leading USB camera
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07C2RL8PB/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1

>You can run Ethernet cables through walls - drill a 6mm hole to poke the
>cable through. Then fix a socket to the wall - each side - into which
>to terminate the cable, and test the finished connection. Use
>professionally made patch cables to connect from the outside socket to
>the camera, and from the inside socket to your router or network switch.
> That way when you break the barb off the RJ45 connector you simply
>replace the patch cable.

So the barb breaks off a lot! Because the cable gets so cold in the
winter and hot in the summer?

>I aske a similar question here a while back and was recommended:
>
>https://reolink.com/gb/product/e1-outdoor/

This is nice, but I don't need the auto-tracking, or even tracking, or
the siren or the SD card storage, or remote access, or even two-way
audio. it's very quiet here and not much to see. Mostly I want to
look at the yard and see if there are any animals. Zoom would be nice,
and time lapse might be very nice, but this is really a security camera
and I'm looking at animals that might not even show up.

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2022-12-23 15:09, micky wrote:
> In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 19 Dec 2022 20:58:02 +0000, Graham J
> <nob...@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> micky wrote:
>>> I wanted to get some waterproof/outdoor cameras that plugged into the
>>> PC, or maybe something that connected straight to the PC.
>>>
>>> But all I see for sale are cameras meant to clip to the monitor, not be
>>> screwed to the wall.
>>>
>>> Or if they are meant for outside, they are either wifi or they are meant
>>> to go to some sort of separate video recorder.
>>>
>>> Do they sell what I want?
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>> A camera using Ethernet would be ideal: it connects to your LAN so is
>> available from any computer.
>
> I only have a desktop and a laptop but still, that would be good.
>
>> A camera featuring Power over Ethernet
>> (PoE) would allow use of a single cable.
>
> But if I have 3 cameras, I will still need 3 cables?? But just one
> power injector??

One switch capable of PoE, which could be inside or outside. It needs a
power input, though. Inside you could use it as well for other things.

>
>> Ethernet allows a maximum
>> cable length of 100 metres, so far better than any USB connection.
>
> I only need 7 or 8 meters. (Decided to put the cameras 8 feet high
> instead of 17 feet.)
>
> So I was thinking that USB would be good enough, but then.... I had in
> mind 3 cameras with a hub in a waterproof box outside, and only one USB
> cable entering the house. Until I read that all three cameras have to
> share the same the same power that one USB port puts out. If my USB
> ports have 0.5 amps, that leaves only 0.16 amp for each camera. Would
> that be enough? Even close to enough?

You would need a powered hub.

...


--
Cheers, Carlos.

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 23 Dec 2022 09:09:43 -0500, micky

<NONONO...@fmguy.com> wrote:

>
>I only need 7 or 8 meters. (Decided to put the cameras 8 feet high
>instead of 17 feet.)
>
>So I was thinking that USB would be good enough, but then.... I had in
>mind 3 cameras with a hub in a waterproof box outside, and only one USB
>cable entering the house. Until I read that all three cameras have to
>share the same the same power that one USB port puts out. If my USB
>ports have 0.5 amps, that leaves only 0.16 amp for each camera. Would
>that be enough? Even close to enough?

I forgot about powered hubs/ I see one that provides 5v/3A for up to 4
devices. I want 3 so that would be 1 amp for each. Obviously plenty
since it's more than an normal usb port supplies.

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 23 Dec 2022 15:35:13 +0100, "Carlos E.R."

<robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:

>On 2022-12-23 15:09, micky wrote:
>> In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 19 Dec 2022 20:58:02 +0000, Graham J
>> <nob...@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> micky wrote:
>>>> I wanted to get some waterproof/outdoor cameras that plugged into the
>>>> PC, or maybe something that connected straight to the PC.
>>>>
>>>> But all I see for sale are cameras meant to clip to the monitor, not be
>>>> screwed to the wall.
>>>>
>>>> Or if they are meant for outside, they are either wifi or they are meant
>>>> to go to some sort of separate video recorder.
>>>>
>>>> Do they sell what I want?
>>>
>>> [snip]
>>>
>>> A camera using Ethernet would be ideal: it connects to your LAN so is
>>> available from any computer.
>>
>> I only have a desktop and a laptop but still, that would be good.
>>
>>> A camera featuring Power over Ethernet
>>> (PoE) would allow use of a single cable.
>>
>> But if I have 3 cameras, I will still need 3 cables?? But just one
>> power injector??
>
>One switch capable of PoE, which could be inside or outside. It needs a
>power input, though. Inside you could use it as well for other things.

A switch! I'd forgotten that word. In fact, I'd forgotten they
existed. I will go read about them.

Able to pass POE through it. I get it.

>>
>>> Ethernet allows a maximum
>>> cable length of 100 metres, so far better than any USB connection.
>>
>> I only need 7 or 8 meters. (Decided to put the cameras 8 feet high
>> instead of 17 feet.)
>>
>> So I was thinking that USB would be good enough, but then.... I had in
>> mind 3 cameras with a hub in a waterproof box outside, and only one USB
>> cable entering the house. Until I read that all three cameras have to
>> share the same the same power that one USB port puts out. If my USB
>> ports have 0.5 amps, that leaves only 0.16 amp for each camera. Would
>> that be enough? Even close to enough?
>
>You would need a powered hub.

!!

>...

[Bob F]

If you have power where the cameras are, look at wifi connected cameras.

[Carlos E.R.]

No, able to provide POE.

Enters a plain ethernet connection at one port, exits 3 or more POE
outputs. Or any number.

(and there is no distinction between ethernet coming in or out, they are
bidirectional. All the ports are equal, you just configure some to be
POE. Normally)


--
Cheers, Carlos.

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 23 Dec 2022 20:11:47 +0100, "Carlos E.R."

It's a good thing I included this line!

>
>No, able to provide POE.

It's a good thing you contradicted me.

>
>Enters a plain ethernet connection at one port, exits 3 or more POE
>outputs. Or any number.
>
>(and there is no distinction between ethernet coming in or out, they are

That's wierd. But okay.

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 23 Dec 2022 08:29:41 -0800, Bob F

They will be outside the house. I'd have to run a wire to have power
there. I'm still losing the connection with my wifi pprinter. 3 times
now in 4 months. Not very happy with wifi.

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2022-12-23 23:38, micky wrote:
> In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 23 Dec 2022 20:11:47 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
> <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 2022-12-23 15:59, micky wrote:
>>> In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 23 Dec 2022 15:35:13 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
>>> <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:

...

>>> A switch! I'd forgotten that word. In fact, I'd forgotten they
>>> existed. I will go read about them.
>>>
>>> Able to pass POE through it. I get it.
>
> It's a good thing I included this line!
>>
>> No, able to provide POE.
>
> It's a good thing you contradicted me.
>>
>> Enters a plain ethernet connection at one port, exits 3 or more POE
>> outputs. Or any number.
>>
>> (and there is no distinction between ethernet coming in or out, they are
>
> That's wierd. But okay.
>
>> bidirectional. All the ports are equal, you just configure some to be
>> POE. Normally)
>

A switch is just a box with ports, say eight:

+----------------------------------------------------------+
| * * * * * * * * |
| [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] |
| |
+----------------------------------------------------------+

Typically, there will be a LED or two per port.

All of them are born equal. Any of them can be connected to your router
or modem, any of them can be connected to your computer or cameras.

If it is "manageable", then you can connect to it from your computer (it
has an IP address) and you can "manage" it. Probably you can change any
port to be of type POE. Or you can configure one port to be "special"
and mirror all the communications of all ports or a single port, so that
you can listen to them in a computer and spy on them, er... analyze them
for problems.

Not all switches are manageable. Some need Windows for the management.
Some are not manageable at all. Price vary.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Paul]

OK, you're inside the house.

How big a hole do you have to run wiring ?

I would not be particularly interested in
drilling holes through window frames :-)
It would be neat though, to have a
window frame with a couple USB ports on it :-)
Think of the resale value.

Paul

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 23 Dec 2022 23:55:54 +0100, "Carlos E.R."

That sounds good. I hate unruly switches.

> Probably you can change any
>port to be of type POE. Or you can configure one port to be "special"
>and mirror all the communications of all ports or a single port, so that
>you can listen to them in a computer and spy on them, er... analyze them
>for problems.
>
>Not all switches are manageable. Some need Windows for the management.
>Some are not manageable at all. Price vary.

Amazon, for example, seemed to have more POE switches than non-POE, and
some are manageable. Now I know what that means. I've been reading
other stuff from the reviews and the web.

It's too cold out to do this before spring, so I've got time to get it
right. It's 10PM now and -14^C in my part of Baltimore. Unusually
cold for this early, and even colder in the center of the country.

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 23 Dec 2022 18:38:26 -0500, Paul

<nos...@needed.invalid> wrote:

>On 12/23/2022 9:42 AM, micky wrote:
>> In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 23 Dec 2022 09:09:43 -0500, micky
>> <NONONO...@fmguy.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I only need 7 or 8 meters. (Decided to put the cameras 8 feet high
>>> instead of 17 feet.)
>>>
>>> So I was thinking that USB would be good enough, but then.... I had in
>>> mind 3 cameras with a hub in a waterproof box outside, and only one USB
>>> cable entering the house. Until I read that all three cameras have to
>>> share the same the same power that one USB port puts out. If my USB
>>> ports have 0.5 amps, that leaves only 0.16 amp for each camera. Would
>>> that be enough? Even close to enough?
>>
>> I forgot about powered hubs/ I see one that provides 5v/3A for up to 4
>> devices. I want 3 so that would be 1 amp for each. Obviously plenty
>> since it's more than an normal usb port supplies.
>>>
>>> Because if I don't have to, I don't want to spend more than $150 or 200,
>>> this is the leading POE camera
>>> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0B72BHL2F/ref=ewc_pr_img_7
>>> and this is the leading USB camera
>>> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07C2RL8PB/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1
>
>OK, you're inside the house.
>
>How big a hole do you have to run wiring ?

I don't have any yet.

>I would not be particularly interested in
>drilling holes through window frames :-)
>It would be neat though, to have a
>window frame with a couple USB ports on it :-)
>Think of the resale value.

Humming birds could fly up and recharge, and quad-copters, and space
ships.

But I've given up on mounting them at the top of the 2nd floor. Now it
will be where the second floor overhangs the first floor. It sticks out
about 20 inches in the front. I can mount two of the cameras under the
overhang and one around corner on the side of the house, and run the
wires** up through the overhang and through the bedroom/office floor.
They will come out under a bed or between the bed and the desk. I did
this before in the other room for the FIOS optical cable and it works
well.

**The ethernet cable and the power wire for the switch.

> Paul

[Bob F]

Get a better wifi router (or maybe, printer)

[Carlos E.R.]

WiFi will always have disconnects. Shorter, longer, more, fewer... but
they will always be there.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Andy Burns]

Carlos E.R. wrote:

> If it is "manageable", then you can connect to it from your computer (it has an IP
> address) and you can "manage" it. Probably you can change any port to be of type
> POE. Or you can configure one port to be "special" and mirror all the
> communications of all ports or a single port, so that you can listen to them in
> a computer and spy on them, er... analyze them for problems.
>
> Not all switches are manageable. Some need Windows for the management. Some are
> not manageable at all. Price vary.

It's rather unlikely that a home user would set out to buy "a switch", and
end-up with one that happens to be manageable and support PoE ... wallets
normally make that decision unless the user is aware of, and definitely wants
both features.

[Carlos E.R.]

So I mention them ;-)

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Char Jackson]

On Fri, 23 Dec 2022 22:14:11 -0500, micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com>
wrote:

>But I've given up on mounting them at the top of the 2nd floor. Now it
>will be where the second floor overhangs the first floor. It sticks out
>about 20 inches in the front. I can mount two of the cameras under the
>overhang and one around corner on the side of the house, and run the
>wires** up through the overhang and through the bedroom/office floor.
>They will come out under a bed or between the bed and the desk. I did
>this before in the other room for the FIOS optical cable and it works
>well.

If you decide on IP (Ethernet) cameras that need POE, where do you plan
to locate the Ethernet switch that will power the cameras and aggregate
their video feeds? Not outside, I hope.

>**The ethernet cable and the power wire for the switch.

So this part becomes "**The ethernet cables"

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 24 Dec 2022 13:33:35 -0600, Char Jackson

<no...@none.invalid> wrote:

>On Fri, 23 Dec 2022 22:14:11 -0500, micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com>
>wrote:
>
>>But I've given up on mounting them at the top of the 2nd floor. Now it
>>will be where the second floor overhangs the first floor. It sticks out
>>about 20 inches in the front. I can mount two of the cameras under the
>>overhang and one around corner on the side of the house, and run the
>>wires** up through the overhang and through the bedroom/office floor.
>>They will come out under a bed or between the bed and the desk. I did
>>this before in the other room for the FIOS optical cable and it works
>>well.
>
>If you decide on IP (Ethernet) cameras that need POE, where do you plan
>to locate the Ethernet switch that will power the cameras and aggregate
>their video feeds?

In a waterproof box, outside, under the overhang, like
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07RT6NWTR/ref=ox_sc_saved_image_3
I don't know how big the box should be until after I get the switch.
(Too often Amazon just says how big the package is, not the item.)

> Not outside, I hope.

Oops. Well maybe not. What should I do?

If I have the switch (or the hub in the case of USB cameras) inside,
then I have to run 3 cables through the wall (or the floor) and I don't
think I want that. When it's outside, I need one ethernet cable and one
thin power cable for the switch. In eiher case the length from inside
to the outside is now about 18 feet.

>>**The ethernet cable and the power wire for the switch.
>
>So this part becomes "**The ethernet cables"

Okay. Right.

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2022-12-24 21:53, micky wrote:
> In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 24 Dec 2022 13:33:35 -0600, Char Jackson
> <no...@none.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 23 Dec 2022 22:14:11 -0500, micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> But I've given up on mounting them at the top of the 2nd floor. Now it
>>> will be where the second floor overhangs the first floor. It sticks out
>>> about 20 inches in the front. I can mount two of the cameras under the
>>> overhang and one around corner on the side of the house, and run the
>>> wires** up through the overhang and through the bedroom/office floor.
>>> They will come out under a bed or between the bed and the desk. I did
>>> this before in the other room for the FIOS optical cable and it works
>>> well.
>>
>> If you decide on IP (Ethernet) cameras that need POE, where do you plan
>> to locate the Ethernet switch that will power the cameras and aggregate
>> their video feeds?
>
> In a waterproof box, outside, under the overhang, like
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07RT6NWTR/ref=ox_sc_saved_image_3
> I don't know how big the box should be until after I get the switch.
> (Too often Amazon just says how big the package is, not the item.)
>
>> Not outside, I hope.
>
> Oops. Well maybe not. What should I do?

Outside has two problems I can think of. The obvious one is theft. Rain
water I'm sure you have covered. But there are temperatures, too high or
too low. The cameras sold for outside surely contemplate this, but not
switches.

>
> If I have the switch (or the hub in the case of USB cameras) inside,
> then I have to run 3 cables through the wall (or the floor) and I don't
> think I want that. When it's outside, I need one ethernet cable and one
> thin power cable for the switch. In eiher case the length from inside
> to the outside is now about 18 feet.

Placing the switch inside is just 3 cables instead of two. I seem to
recall the term "thin ethernet" — ah, no, that's coax. Was.

>
>>> **The ethernet cable and the power wire for the switch.
>>
>> So this part becomes "**The ethernet cables"
>
> Okay. Right.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 24 Dec 2022 22:13:30 +0100, "Carlos E.R."

Yes, it will be out of the rain in a waterproof box, under an overhang 8
feet high.

> But there are temperatures, too high or
>too low. The cameras sold for outside surely contemplate this, but not
>switches.

The switch I greatly preferred** has specs:
Operating Temperature: 0–40 C (32–104 F)
Storage Temperature: -40–70 C (-40–158 F)
Operating Humidity: 10–90% RH non-condensing
Storage Humidity: 5–90% RH non-condensing
https://www.tp-link.com/us/business-networking/poe-switch/tl-sf1005p/#specifications
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B076PRM2C5/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_2?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

Over the year, maybe 90-95% of the time it's 32 degrees F or higher
here. Can I assume if the permitted storage temp is -40, that when it
warms up it will work again?


Can I expect that it will actually work a few degrees below 32?

The devices's lower limit is 32 and even in January and February the
average low is just a little lower, 30 and 31.9 but I"m a little higher
elevation and it's a little colder than downtown. Still that leaves
days all year long and nights 10 months of the year when it's within
operating temperature.


**It was the only*** one using a wall wart, out of the selection that
Amazon sells.


***TL-SF1005P V2. There is one other with more ports than I need, also
by TP-link. And a more expensive one by some other company. All the
others used the heavy 3-conductor power cable like are used in the back
of a desktop computer. For appearance in the bedroom/office and for
running through a hole to the outside, a thin flexible wall-wart wire
seems better.


Interestingly, with some of them, there are lots of pictures but no
picture of the back (so I could be sure what sort of power cord was
used). Even on the manufacturer's webpage, one I looked at it had a
picture from the front, a little to the left, a little to the right,
even more to the right, but none of the back! All of their pictures
looked pretty much alike.

[Paul]

The operating temperature of 0C to 40C, is a "computer operating range".
That's not reflective of chip operating temperature or SMPS operating temperature.

I would expect you could squeeze -5C out of it. Just based on the minimum
chip simulation temperature margin. Of more concern, would be condensation
or frost buildup inside the switch box. Using a Kill-O-Watt meter,
you can plug the power adapter for the switch into the Kill-O-Watt
and get a watts reading, which gives you some idea whether the
switch box has a significant self-heating effect. You would test, with the
proposed three camera loads connected, for an accurate simulation
before install.

GbE switch boxes, generally have power saving per channel. If the
LED goes off, then the channel could be sleeping, and not
contributing to box-heating. The very first GbE switches (8 ch)
for consumers, ran hot enough that some people Dremeled a hole
in the plastic chassis top, and fitted a 40mmsq heatsink on top
of the main IC. Modern switches probably aren't quite that
bad now :-) The Dremeling started, after initial reports
of premature failures of the product -- fitting cooling was
an attempt to extend product life.

My little four port switch, does not have perceptible heating
on it right now. There's no need to Dremel that thing.

Paul

[wasbit]

When you have mounted your box, to get the cables in, you then have to
drill holes & add sealing glands (UK terminology). The holes will have
to be large enough to allow whatever is on the end of the cable to pass
through or you will have to cut & rejoin the cables.
IMHO not a good idea.

--
Regards
wasbit

[Andy Burns]

wasbit wrote:

> When you have mounted your box, to get the cables in, you then have to drill
> holes & add sealing glands (UK terminology). The holes will have to be large
> enough to allow whatever is on the end of the cable to pass through or you will
> have to cut & rejoin the cables.
> IMHO not a good idea.

I would expect a weatherproof box that was good enough to keep a switch
protected from the elements to cost a lot, cables are cheap in comparison, run
them indoors and keep the switch there ...

[Piet]

Andy Burns wrote:
> wasbit wrote:
>> When you have mounted your box, to get the cables in, you then have to drill
>> holes & add sealing glands (UK terminology). The holes will have to be large
>> enough to allow whatever is on the end of the cable to pass through or you will
>> have to cut & rejoin the cables.
>> IMHO not a good idea.
>
> I would expect a weatherproof box that was good enough to keep a switch
> protected from the elements to cost a lot

A plastic lunch box, silicone sealant and a bit of home work would
do the job in a cheap way. I'd take care though that the box doesn't
catch bright sunlight, but that goes for an expensive weatherproof
box too.

-p

[Carlos E.R.]

You can not assume it is safe to power up electronics beyond the working
temp range, anything can happen. It is not "it just doesn't work but it
is safe if I power it up out of range, and it will start working when
temp is in range".

Like, some current could be higher than supposed, this could have an
unforeseen effect on another part of the circuit, and the device could
permanently self destroy.

Then, maybe nothing happens, but you simply do not know.

You can not assume it has been designed with safeties that work and
secure the circuits when temps are out of range. Rather, nothing has
been calculated beyond the design range, and anything could happen. It
might even work perfectly outside of range. Or catch fire. Anything goes.

...

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Graham J]

micky wrote:

[snip]

>> If you decide on IP (Ethernet) cameras that need POE, where do you plan
>> to locate the Ethernet switch that will power the cameras and aggregate
>> their video feeds?
>
> In a waterproof box, outside, under the overhang, like
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07RT6NWTR/ref=ox_sc_saved_image_3
> I don't know how big the box should be until after I get the switch.
> (Too often Amazon just says how big the package is, not the item.)
>
>> Not outside, I hope.
>
> Oops. Well maybe not. What should I do?

[snip]

Remembering an earlier post, you were complaining that WiFi from your
house to an outbuilding used as an office was unreliable. So a suggestion:

Run Cat5 (i.e. Ethernet) cable from your house to the outbuilding.
Terminate each end (inside the houe and inside the outbuilding) with
sockets so that you then use (easily replaceable) patch cables from
those sockets to other equipment. (As previously mentioned, the barbs
on RJ45 plugs do break off, rendering them useless. They break because
of inexpert handling - don't blame yourself, it happens to all of us!)

In the house connect to your router; and in the outbuilding connect to
your PoE network switch. The switch then connects to whatever computers
you have in the outbuilding (and if necessary to a wireless access point
to provide for those devices whoch don't have an Ethernet socket). The
switch should be left powered up continuously which in an outbuilding
will almost certainly keep it above its lower temperature limit. In
summer it mught be worth arranging some natural ventilation.

You run cables from that switch to your cameras.

Ethernet cables run outdoors should be either outdoor grade (so will
tolerate years of sunshine) or run in protective ducts - the PVC used to
make them is very attractive to rats which will chew through them.



--
Graham J

[Andy Burns]

Graham J wrote:

> the barbs on RJ45 plugs do break off, rendering them useless.  They break
> because of inexpert handling - don't blame yourself, it happens to all of us!

When it happens, chop the lead in two with a vengeance and discard it, so you're
not tempted to re-use it later "just temporarily" ...

[Ken Blake]

On Sun, 25 Dec 2022 11:22:36 +0100, Piet
<www.godfatherof.nl/@opt-in.invalid> wrote:

>Andy Burns wrote:
>> wasbit wrote:
>>> When you have mounted your box, to get the cables in, you then have to drill
>>> holes & add sealing glands (UK terminology). The holes will have to be large
>>> enough to allow whatever is on the end of the cable to pass through or you will
>>> have to cut & rejoin the cables.
>>> IMHO not a good idea.
>>
>> I would expect a weatherproof box that was good enough to keep a switch
>> protected from the elements to cost a lot
>
>A plastic lunch box, silicone sealant and a bit of home work would
>do the job in a cheap way. I

But if a hungry thief sees the lunch box...

[Ken Blake]

On Sun, 25 Dec 2022 14:04:49 +0000, Andy Burns <use...@andyburns.uk>
wrote:

Better than using a vengeance would be using wire cutter pliers.

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 25 Dec 2022 03:40:40 +0100, "Carlos E.R."

Okay, thanks. I won't assume those things. Now I have to think about
it all some more.
>...

[Char Jackson]

On Sun, 25 Dec 2022 14:04:49 +0000, Andy Burns <use...@andyburns.uk>
wrote:

That seems drastic. I've successfully used Ethernet cables where the
barb has fallen off, including one cable that has been barbless for a
number of years. I could lop off the connector and re-terminate it, and
I probably should, but it works fine as it is and I'm too lazy to fix
things that work, so here we are.

[Paul]

You can chop the head off with a vengeance, then put another head on.
Just like that Frankenstein movie.

https://www.amazon.ca/Shahe-Ethernet-Network-Tester-Crimping/dp/B08LQ8QF4Q

One of the images is a video (on the left), and shows "crimping on a new head".

It's just the first thing that showed up in a search, and has
no particular merits.

I've never done one of those, so can't say how easy it is to
get a good termination.

Paul

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 25 Dec 2022 20:24:06 -0500, Paul

<nos...@needed.invalid> wrote:

>On 12/25/2022 9:04 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
>> Graham J wrote:
>>
>>> the barbs on RJ45 plugs do break off, rendering them useless.  They break because of inexpert handling - don't blame yourself, it happens to all of us!
>>
>> When it happens, chop the lead in two with a vengeance and discard it, so you're not tempted to re-use it later "just temporarily" ...
>>
>
>You can chop the head off with a vengeance, then put another head on.
>Just like that Frankenstein movie.
>
> https://www.amazon.ca/Shahe-Ethernet-Network-Tester-Crimping/dp/B08LQ8QF4Q

Char, Paul, I was going to ask about this. I have one of these tools
that I bought for phone cords, but the place that holds the plug is wide
enough ethernet. I just need some connectors.

Mine is just plastic but it worked well. I think I have a professional
model I got at a hamfest or yard sale.

The comments are mostly positive, but this is one star:
>this sucks, the blade doesn't trim wires properly and damages crystals, not worth the money. Wasted so much time on
installs just trying to trim a crystal properly

What is a crystal. The plastic end? Why is he trimming it?
---
Thhis is 4 stars but negative. It implies you should write down the
order of the wires before cutting off the original end.

Will probably work well…. but don’t buy
Reviewed in the United States on September 13, 2021
Model: 4in1 Tool KitVerified Purchase
That is, if you’ve never done this before. Instead, get a pass-through
crimper and plug set and your life will be easier. See, the cable wires

[What's that?]

you want to splice must be unraveled into the 8 individual data wires
and put into a specific color order to be inserted into the modular plug
and then crimped. (By the way, the video on the page shows the order for
only the rare, 568A configuration. Most systems call for the 568B
configuration which orders the wires differently. Be sure you know what
configuration you are working with before you order the wire colors. A
568B wire-order diagram is on the product page.) It’s not too difficult
to separate, smooth the wires, and get them into the right color order
when you’re working with two inches of the cable wires. But holding that
order in your fingers right next to the plastic cable sheathing,
clipping the wires down to a half inch and then inserting all of them
all into the plug at the same time is very difficult for a first timer
and takes a lot of practice (I assume). The problem is that the wires
terminate at the end of the plug. You can’t hold one wire in that
position while you mess with other wires that are misbehaving; and they

[I know. It was pretty easy for 4 wires, haven't tried more.]

will misbehave. The pass-through plugs help solve this by letting the
wires go in the back of the plug into their proper channel and then
extend out through the front end of the plug. This way you don’t have to
clip the wires before inserting them. You can actually insert one wire
at a time and when it passes through the front bend it so that it stays
put while you insert the next wire in the order (a procedure that
probably infuriates the purists). Once all the wires are inserted
through in the right order the special pass-through crimper not only
locks down the wires and sheathing, but also clips the excess wires in
front of the plug. You just have to be careful when inserting the wires
that you don’t skip a hole and end up one or two wires with no home.
You’ll also want to twist the end of the loose wires together after
their all in to get them through the crimping hole cleanly. Finally,
remember to slip the plug cover on the cable before you start working

[shoudln't be "finally". Should be first.]

with the wire. You can find the pass-through crimpers here on Amazon by
searching for them specifically. It will still be a tedious process but
at least doable for a novice. Good luck.
One person found this helpful
Report abuse
--

Here is one that is called pass-through. I don't know why it would be
easier.
https://www.amazon.com/CHZHLM-Through-Connector-Connectors-Stripper/dp/B0B73Y5RS4/ref=sr_1_1_sspa

>One of the images is a video (on the left), and shows "crimping on a new head".
>
>It's just the first thing that showed up in a search, and has
>no particular merits.
>
>I've never done one of those, so can't say how easy it is to
>get a good termination.

Phone line was easy.

> Paul

[Bob F]

I would imagine you can cut the wires much longer, push them through,
then pull them each tight to pull the wire casing tight into the
connector. then cut off the extra wire ends. That may be easier than
trying to cut them to the final length, get them ordered correctly in a
TIGHT flat pattern, then push them all the way into their appropriate holes.

[Char Jackson]

On Sun, 25 Dec 2022 20:24:06 -0500, Paul <nos...@needed.invalid> wrote:

The crimper linked above is essentially what I use and it works well. It
probably helps that I've done a crap ton of them. If I was asked to make
a recommendation to someone who doesn't have much experience, I would
very definitely recommend the pass-thru type of connector. They're quite
a bit easier, especially for someone who's just getting started.

Someone else mentioned TIA 568B (vs 568A). If a diagram isn't handy, you
can use the other end of the cable that you're working on. Put the two
connectors side by side, not end to end, and just match the colors.

[whit3rd]

On Monday, December 19, 2022 at 9:09:44 AM UTC-8, micky wrote:
> I wanted to get some waterproof/outdoor cameras that plugged into the
> PC, or maybe something that connected straight to the PC.
>
> But all I see for sale are cameras meant to clip to the monitor, not be
> screwed to the wall.

Oh, they're available four outdoor install. This one, for instance <at temu.com search for LY02238>
The POE (power-over-ethernet) type don't require house current directly (you'll
need a switch or POE power injector in addition to ethernet interfaces).

[Andy Burns]

Char Jackson wrote:

> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> When it happens, chop the lead in two with a vengeance and discard it, so you're
>> not tempted to re-use it later "just temporarily" ...
>
> That seems drastic. I've successfully used Ethernet cables where the
> barb has fallen off, including one cable that has been barbless for a
> number of years.

And then one day, someone is doing the hoovering, or kicks a desk, or a pet gets
round the back, and something stops working ... if you can retuerminate it with
a new plug, sure but patch cables are cheap, stuff not working is frequently
expensive ...

[Andy Burns]

micky wrote:

> I have one of these tools
> that I bought for phone cords, but the place that holds the plug is wide
> enough ethernet. I just need some connectors.

Most plugs are for 'solid' cable, to repair patch cables you need to get the
type of plugs for 'stranded' cable, I think there is also a type of plug that
copes with both ...

[Piet]

Ken Blake wrote:

> Piet wrote:
>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>> wasbit wrote:
>>>> When you have mounted your box, to get the cables in, you then have to drill
>>>> holes & add sealing glands (UK terminology). The holes will have to be large
>>>> enough to allow whatever is on the end of the cable to pass through or you will
>>>> have to cut & rejoin the cables.
>>>> IMHO not a good idea.
>>>
>>> I would expect a weatherproof box that was good enough to keep a switch
>>> protected from the elements to cost a lot
>>
>> A plastic lunch box, silicone sealant and a bit of home work would
>> do the job in a cheap way. I
>
> But if a hungry thief sees the lunch box...

Then (s)he would be disappointed by the not exactly nutritious content. ;-)

-p

[Paul]

It just means you can stuff the wires one at a time into
the connector and it won't pop out of place.

The T368A and T368B thing is for rolled or straight-thru cabling.
I can tell this, by noting the reversal of 1,2 3,6 on the two connectors
in the depiction.

1,2 to 1,2 Straight-thru (most all of my cables are like this)
3,6 to 3,6

1,2 to 3,6 Rolled cable (only one spare is like this, haven't used in some time)
3,6 to 1,2 (Could have blue boot on one end, red boot on other end of cable)

Any more info than that, you'll have to look up. A rolled cable
might be used between a broadband modem and a router. Straight cables
tend to be used from router to PC or switch to PC. Doing direct PC to PC,
uses a rolled cable (only if both ends are limited to 10/100BT NICs).
GbE equipment has MDI/MDIX which can deal with either straight or
rolled cabling.

Paul

[Zaidy036]

On 12/19/2022 12:09 PM, micky wrote:
> I wanted to get some waterproof/outdoor cameras that plugged into the
> PC, or maybe something that connected straight to the PC.
>
> But all I see for sale are cameras meant to clip to the monitor, not be
> screwed to the wall.
>

> Or if they are meant for outside, they are either wifi or they are meant
> to go to some sort of separate video recorder.
>
> Do they sell what I want?
>
> I'm not worried about burglars or porch thieves, I just want to look at
> my yard when I'm inside. There is some wildlife that spend time there,
> but I have no window on that side of the room I spend a lot of time in,
> and even if there wwere I window, I'd have to stand up, leave my work at
> my desk, stand on the bed and look down at the yard. I want to be able
> to watch on the PC monitor instead. --- If I went outside, most of the
> animals would run away
>
> I hoped to have 3 cameras**. A real bonus would be if I could do
> something like run all 3 into one hub and just run one wire through the
> window frame or wall. (Darn, I found what they call a waterproof
> enclosure for a 4-port hub, but it's showing just a regular $10 hub and
> a box without only one usb jack. By Sabrent but Amazon has no ratings
> and no Q&A. I'll keep looking, or make my own?)
>
> It it possible to cut the the USB connector off of a cord, slide the
> wire through a hole, cut the wire to the desired length, and reattach a
> USB conector?
>
> **One facing the front, one to the right of that, and one mounted a foot
> or two away, around the corner of the house, facing the side yard.
Why use wired when Wi-Fi cameras are available? Google "Wi-Fi outdoor
camera". Add "Solar" for more. Battery replacement time depends on use.
If you have one outside light nearby can provide power from it.

Some info here:
https://www.bestbuy.com/discover-learn/top-8-things-to-know-about-solar-powered-security-cameras/pcmcat1637608496025

[Char Jackson]

On Mon, 26 Dec 2022 05:05:36 -0500, Paul <nos...@needed.invalid> wrote:

>The T368A and T368B thing is for rolled or straight-thru cabling.

If both ends of a cable are 568A, or if both ends are 568B, it's a
straight-through cable. If one end of a cable is 568A and the other end
is 568B, it's a crossover cable, what you call rolled, below.

Crossover cables are very rarely needed these days. All of mine are long
gone. What's important is to pick a wiring standard and stick with it. I
use 568B, but that's just personal preference and momentum.

https://www.truecable.com/blogs/cable-academy/t568a-vs-t568b

[Char Jackson]

On Mon, 26 Dec 2022 06:29:32 +0000, Andy Burns <use...@andyburns.uk>
wrote:

I suppose it could be annoying if a connection comes loose, but it's not
like it causes any damage. Just push the plug in and carry on, right? I
get your point, though. One of these years I'll probably replace my
barbless cables (or more likely just snip the connector and crimp a new
one). They're not causing any problems, though, so it could be a while.

[Ken Blake]

On Mon, 26 Dec 2022 11:56:48 -0600, Char Jackson <no...@none.invalid>
wrote:

I had never heard of 568A or 568B before. Short of taking it apart,
is it possible to tell which connector it is?

[Scott Lurndal]

Ken Blake <K...@invalid.news.com> writes:
>On Mon, 26 Dec 2022 11:56:48 -0600, Char Jackson <no...@none.invalid>
>wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 26 Dec 2022 05:05:36 -0500, Paul <nos...@needed.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>The T368A and T368B thing is for rolled or straight-thru cabling.
>>
>>If both ends of a cable are 568A, or if both ends are 568B, it's a
>>straight-through cable. If one end of a cable is 568A and the other end
>>is 568B, it's a crossover cable, what you call rolled, below.
>>
>>Crossover cables are very rarely needed these days. All of mine are long
>>gone. What's important is to pick a wiring standard and stick with it. I
>>use 568B, but that's just personal preference and momentum.
>>
>>https://www.truecable.com/blogs/cable-academy/t568a-vs-t568b
>>
>>

>>>I can tell this, by noting the reversal of 1,2 3,6 on the two =

>connectors
>>>in the depiction.
>>>
>>>1,2 to 1,2 Straight-thru (most all of my cables are like this)
>>>3,6 to 3,6
>>>

>>>1,2 to 3,6 Rolled cable (only one spare is like this, haven't =
>used in some time)
>>>3,6 to 1,2 (Could have blue boot on one end, red =

>boot on other end of cable)
>>>
>>>Any more info than that, you'll have to look up. A rolled cable
>>>might be used between a broadband modem and a router. Straight cables

>>>tend to be used from router to PC or switch to PC. Doing direct PC to =

>PC,
>>>uses a rolled cable (only if both ends are limited to 10/100BT NICs).
>>>GbE equipment has MDI/MDIX which can deal with either straight or
>>>rolled cabling.
>
>I had never heard of 568A or 568B before. Short of taking it apart,
>is it possible to tell which connector it is?

It's the same connector (RJ-45) for both. 568A/568B are the standards
for which wire goes to which contact in the (usually) female connector.

Cables (with male connectors) are typically wired straight through or
crossover (rare now).

[Ken Blake]

On Mon, 26 Dec 2022 21:34:34 GMT, sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

Yes, I know. I guess my question wasn't clear.

> 568A/568B are the standards
>for which wire goes to which contact in the (usually) female connector.

Yes, I understood that from Char's post,

>(usually) female connector.

I thought (especially for crossover cable) that it was especially
pertinent to male connectors.

>Cables (with male connectors) are typically wired straight through or
>crossover (rare now).

Yes, I know. What I didn't know was that a crossover cable is one that
is connected 568A at one end and 568B at the other. I was asking
whether (and if so, how) I could tell whether the connections were
568A or 568B. I basically wanted to know that so I could tell whether
an old cable I might have lying around is a crossover cable.

[Carlos E.R.]

I have one such cable. It is perfect. it is used for temporary
connection to my laptop, and being able to pull it off easily is a plus :-D

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Scott Lurndal]

Ken Blake <K...@invalid.news.com> writes:
>On Mon, 26 Dec 2022 21:34:34 GMT, sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
>wrote:
>
>>Ken Blake <K...@invalid.news.com> writes:
>>>On Mon, 26 Dec 2022 11:56:48 -0600, Char Jackson <no...@none.invalid>
>>>wrote:
>>>

>>>>On Mon, 26 Dec 2022 05:05:36 -0500, Paul <nos...@needed.invalid> =

>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>The T368A and T368B thing is for rolled or straight-thru cabling.
>>>>
>>>>If both ends of a cable are 568A, or if both ends are 568B, it's a

>>>>straight-through cable. If one end of a cable is 568A and the other =

>end
>>>>is 568B, it's a crossover cable, what you call rolled, below.
>>>>

>>>>Crossover cables are very rarely needed these days. All of mine are =
>long
>>>>gone. What's important is to pick a wiring standard and stick with it.=

> I
>>>>use 568B, but that's just personal preference and momentum.
>>>>
>>>>https://www.truecable.com/blogs/cable-academy/t568a-vs-t568b
>>>>
>>>>

>>>>>I can tell this, by noting the reversal of 1,2 3,6 on the two =3D

>>>connectors
>>>>>in the depiction.
>>>>>
>>>>>1,2 to 1,2 Straight-thru (most all of my cables are like this)
>>>>>3,6 to 3,6
>>>>>
>>>>>1,2 to 3,6 Rolled cable (only one spare is like this, haven't=

> =3D

>>>used in some time)
>>>>>3,6 to 1,2 (Could have blue boot on one end, red=

> =3D

>>>boot on other end of cable)
>>>>>
>>>>>Any more info than that, you'll have to look up. A rolled cable
>>>>>might be used between a broadband modem and a router. Straight cables
>>>>>tend to be used from router to PC or switch to PC. Doing direct PC to=

> =3D

[Scott Lurndal]

Ken Blake <K...@invalid.news.com> writes:
>On Mon, 26 Dec 2022 21:34:34 GMT, sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
>wrote:
>

>>(usually) female connector.
>
>I thought (especially for crossover cable) that it was especially
>pertinent to male connectors.
>
>
>>Cables (with male connectors) are typically wired straight through or
>>crossover (rare now).
>
>
>Yes, I know. What I didn't know was that a crossover cable is one that
>is connected 568A at one end and 568B at the other. I was asking
>whether (and if so, how) I could tell whether the connections were
>568A or 568B. I basically wanted to know that so I could tell whether
>an old cable I might have lying around is a crossover cable.

You can (a) look at the wire colors in the cable through the
transparent connector and match them to the chart, or
(b) plug the cable into a cat5 cable tester.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethernet_crossover_cable
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANSI/TIA-568#T568A_and_T568B_termination

Assuming that whomever made the connector followed the wiring T568 suggestions.

[Paul]

Ohmmeter.

Check whether 1,2 on one end, goes to 1,2 on the other end.
Or, whether 1,2 on one end, goes to 3,6 on the other end.

The first is straight thru.

The second is crossover.

Of the eight wires (four twisted pairs), four of the wires
are "legacy" material. 1,2 and 3,6 pairs were used on 10/100BT
for the wiring. The remaining wires would not be doing anything.

On the legacy stuff, a TX pair was wired to an RX pair.
An RX pair was wires to a TX pair. That was the four wires.

Whereas GbE is bidirectional on eight wires total.

https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/132486/how-does-bidirectional-transmission-on-gigabit-ethernet-work

And the waveform on GbE is "beautiful". It's PAM5.
It would look even nicer, if we could see the PAM5
eye diagram on the Tektronix digital scope. Very colorful.

https://www.edn.com/wp-content/uploads/media-1163595-134711-tmw03-04f2fig1.gif

( https://www.edn.com/what-pam5-means-to-you/ )

Paul

[Ken Blake]

On Mon, 26 Dec 2022 23:10:11 GMT, sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)

wrote:

>Ken Blake <K...@invalid.news.com> writes:
>>On Mon, 26 Dec 2022 21:34:34 GMT, sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>(usually) female connector.
>>
>>I thought (especially for crossover cable) that it was especially
>>pertinent to male connectors.
>>
>>
>>>Cables (with male connectors) are typically wired straight through or
>>>crossover (rare now).
>>
>>
>>Yes, I know. What I didn't know was that a crossover cable is one that
>>is connected 568A at one end and 568B at the other. I was asking
>>whether (and if so, how) I could tell whether the connections were
>>568A or 568B. I basically wanted to know that so I could tell whether
>>an old cable I might have lying around is a crossover cable.
>
>You can (a) look at the wire colors in the cable through the
> transparent connector and match them to the chart, or
> (b) plug the cable into a cat5 cable tester.

Actually, a few minutes ago, I looked the one cable that I could
easily find. Yes the connector was transparent and yes I could see
that they were the same so it wasn't a crossover cable.

But are the connectors always transparent? My memory might be wrong,
but I didn't think so.

[Ken Blake]

On Mon, 26 Dec 2022 18:27:33 -0500, Paul <nos...@needed.invalid>
wrote:

Thanks, but I don't think I need to do that. See the other reply I'm
about to send.

[Ken Blake]

On Mon, 26 Dec 2022 17:12:15 -0700, Ken Blake <K...@invalid.news.com>
wrote:

My memory is apparently wrong. It just occurred to me that it would be
very easy to look at the cables coming into my router.

Yes, the ends of all four of those connectors are *all* transparent.
What must have confused me is the part of the connector next to that
end transparent part is opaque, colored the same as the cable itself.

[Char Jackson]

On Mon, 26 Dec 2022 18:27:33 -0500, Paul <nos...@needed.invalid> wrote:

Ugh! Just do a visual check. Put the two cable ends side by side. If the
colors match, pin for pin, it's straight through. If not, it's most
likely a crossover, but could also be miswired (not likely). You can use
the colored pictures found online, as well.

[Char Jackson]

On Mon, 26 Dec 2022 21:34:34 GMT, sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

AKA 8p8c

>568A/568B are the standards
>for which wire goes to which contact

Agreed.

>in the (usually) female connector.

Not sure what you're saying there. Gender has nothing to do with it. The
two wiring standards (568A & 568B) apply equally to both genders,
although patch panels, which are almost always female, are normally
wired straight. The crossover role, if needed, is normally left for the
patch cable, the link between the patch panel and the piece of
equipment.

>Cables (with male connectors) are typically wired straight through

Right, using either 568A or 568B cable/pin assignment.

>or crossover (rare now).

Agreed.

[Scott Lurndal]

You ought to see the eye diagram for 400Gbe and 800Gbe with PAM4.

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 26 Dec 2022 15:15:55 -0700, Ken Blake

<K...@invalid.news.com> wrote:

>
>>Cables (with male connectors) are typically wired straight through or
>>crossover (rare now).
>
>
>Yes, I know. What I didn't know was that a crossover cable is one that
>is connected 568A at one end and 568B at the other. I was asking
>whether (and if so, how) I could tell whether the connections were
>568A or 568B. I basically wanted to know that so I could tell whether
>an old cable I might have lying around is a crossover cable.

You don't have to know which format they are to know if they are
crossover. Hold both ends next to each other and see if the colors are
in the same order. If they're not, it's crossover. If they are, it's
not.

[Ken Blake]

On Tue, 27 Dec 2022 17:10:44 -0500, micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com>
wrote:

Yes, as others have said. Thanks. I hadn't realized they were
transparent.

[Andrew Smallshaw]

Most _plugs_ are for stranded cable, they are intended for loose
flexes (patch cables) between equipment and between equipment and
fixed wiring (i.e. wall socket or patch panel). Most _sockets_
are for solid cable, intending for the fixed wiring through ducts,
walls, ceiling etc where the flexibility of stranded cable isn't
needed. Solid cable is simply a bit too stiff for patch cables,
any bending forces translate through to the contact (even through
the strain relief) and I've found they work loose in short order.

More common is sockets that can accept either solid or stranded
cable. Solid is to be preferred for fixed wiring that is expected
to make up the bulk of a run, since it has slightly lower losses
than stranded, although in my home network I use stranded exclusively.
If I had installed it all in one go I would probably have bought
a 100m or 305m reel of solid, but the fixed wiring has gone in over
time so it's a lower immediate cost to buy a 10, 20 or 30m patch
lead and lop the ends off for the bare cable. But then the longest
run in my home is 28m, and even that follows a very circuitous
route, well short of the 100m limit so a little additional loss is
acceptable.

Also while I'm posting I'll just pick up a terminological note
elsethread. It's a crossed or crossover cable in a networking
context, never rolled or rollover. The latter is generally construed
to mean a cable wired 1-8, 2-7 etc. Used a lot in serial (RS232)
over twisted pair which these days is something of a niche thing
in a home environment, but still very widespread in commercial and
industrial settings.

--
Andrew Smallshaw
and...@sdf.org

[Andy Burns]

Andrew Smallshaw wrote:

> Most _plugs_ are for stranded cable [...] Most _sockets_
> are for solid cable

You're quite right, not sure what I was thinking ...