Bulging caps by design?

N_Cook

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Jun 1, 2019, 10:11:12 AM6/1/19

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Getting inside a TV for the all too common reason, to divert the crappy
internal speakers to something decent, ie larger for some bass, externally.
3 caps on the ps marked "G-LUX" 470uF, 10V gold and black all with
exactly the same degree of bulge. No problem with the TV. Google images
shows none of that type. No other G-Lux examples on the boards to
compare with. They have the incised Y type of end to the cap.

While inside took some data, perhaps useful for someone sometime.
Beko 22WLP530HID, 2008
video board BEKO ELEKTRONIK XZT190-R-3
main ICs
NEC DE1115GM
Sony CXD1968BR
MSJ7286
D2516AETA
ps board Grundig XST194-1V-0
LG Display LC220WEI

tabb...@gmail.com

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Jun 1, 2019, 12:58:42 PM6/1/19

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Lytic caps don't bulge by design. If they're bulging, they're going into failure.

NT

Chuck

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Jun 1, 2019, 1:56:26 PM6/1/19

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These caps are known for failing. Replace all of them.

Jeff Liebermann

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Jun 1, 2019, 5:02:54 PM6/1/19

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On Sat, 01 Jun 2019 15:11:10 +0100, N_Cook <div...@tcp.co.uk> wrote:

>Getting inside a TV for the all too common reason, to divert the crappy
>internal speakers to something decent, ie larger for some bass, externally.

I prefer to use a hi-fi or entertainment contrivance that already has
proper external speakers and better bass/treble controls. I usually
need to couple it through an isolation xformer to avoid hummmmm caused
by a ground loop.

>3 caps on the ps marked "G-LUX" 470uF, 10V gold and black all with
>exactly the same degree of bulge.

G-Lux is the abrev for G-Luxon capacitors:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=g-luxon+capacitors>
They merged with Teapo Electronic Company of Taiwan in 2005:
<http://www.teapo.com/Web-En/History-en.aspx>
which means those caps were probably some of the first caps out of the
factory in China.

>Beko 22WLP530HID, 2008

The TV is 11 years old. Maybe it's time to replace the bulging caps.
If you can make them fit, I suggest a higher voltage rating.
--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Ralph Mowery

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Jun 1, 2019, 7:33:19 PM6/1/19

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In article <bro5feh81f987l2bh...@4ax.com>,
je...@cruzio.com says...

>
> The TV is 11 years old. Maybe it's time to replace the bulging caps.
> If you can make them fit, I suggest a higher voltage rating.
>
>

Higher voltage is ok, but higher temperature is probably better. I
think 105 deg C is the higher ones now.

Jeff Liebermann

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Jun 1, 2019, 10:33:11 PM6/1/19

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Yep. 105C is better.

In computahs, I've been replacing bulging electrolytics with aluminum
polymer caps. They're substantially more expensive, but that's not an
issue for simple recapping of a motherboard, where the quantities of
caps used are small. Most of the better motherboards already use
polymer caps instead of electrolytics, especially near the rather warm
CPU. I have yet to replace a polymer capacitor, while electrolytic
replacements are epidemic.

Here's the Mouser selection of 470uf 16v polymer caps:
<https://www.mouser.com/Passive-Components/Capacitors/Aluminum-Electrolytic-Capacitors/Aluminum-Organic-Polymer-Capacitors/_/N-bmaie?P=1z0wrk5Z1z0z7l5Z1yx4aw3>
Unfortunately, 16v is as high a voltage that can be commonly found.
Mouser only has one cap rated at 25v:
<https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/KEMET/A750MS477M1EAAE015?qs=M6jHmRuQorU%252BFZ0HJe9oAQ%3D%3D>

No clue what's happening in the TV business. My guess(tm) is that
they continue to use the cheapest parts possible on the assumption
that using expensive parts, which might outlast the other overheating
parts in the TV, is bad design economics.

"Bad Electrolytic Capacitor Teardown"
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKphKWAkeSU> (4:32)

mako...@yahoo.com

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Jun 6, 2019, 10:36:46 AM6/6/19

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>
> >Getting inside a TV for the all too common reason, to divert the crappy
> >internal speakers to something decent, ie larger for some bass, externally.
>
> I prefer to use a hi-fi or entertainment contrivance that already has
> proper external speakers and better bass/treble controls. I usually
> need to couple it through an isolation xformer to avoid hummmmm caused
> by a ground loop.

TVs these days have Class D balanced drivers feeding the speakers with little filtering.

This makes it a PITA to get audio out if the set does not already have that feature.

I needed to use small audio transformers and low pass filters to get the switching freq down.

And after all that, there still was no bass, I had to find a hidden sub menu to change the audio mode to full range.

mark

Jeff Urban

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Jun 30, 2019, 9:07:10 AM6/30/19

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>I prefer to use a hi-fi or entertainment contrivance that already >has proper external speakers and better bass/treble controls.

Bass and treble ? I have a design that will blow your mind. If your public email is good I'll send you the print. Once I find it.

We are talking +/- 20dB, bass turnover continuously variable from about 40 to 400 Hz, treble has the same +/- 20dB with the turnover continuously variable from about 3KHz to 7KHz.

The only thing I am working on now is to decrease the effect of the treble when the turnover is lowered, meaning it boosts more frequencies. The reason is that if you got it set to 7K that 20dB boost is not that much, it is just bringing to you that sweet timbre. Take it to 4KHz and we are talking blowing tweeters fast like. So when I am done it is only going to have +/- 20 when set to the highest turnover.

Actually I am pretty sure I can just put some cutable jumpers on the board to allow the full range at all settings for those who get their tweeters wholesale...

It is a different approach to tone controls and I think I saw it implemented in some unit somewhere, but not as advanced as mine. No variable turnover.

I used to have the circuit values figured out but I lost it dammit. Doesn't matter I can figure it out again fast enough.

Actually if I get it up and send it you'll see because of the topology the values are very easy to figure.

Worse comes to worse I got it on paper and I can just scan it, where it was anyway, there is no Spice file of it.

Jeff Liebermann

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Jun 30, 2019, 2:39:55 PM6/30/19

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On Sun, 30 Jun 2019 06:07:08 -0700 (PDT), Jeff Urban
<jurb...@gmail.com> wrote:

>>I prefer to use a hi-fi or entertainment contrivance that already
>>has proper external speakers and better bass/treble controls.
>
>Bass and treble ? I have a design that will blow your mind.
>If your public email is good I'll send you the print. Once I find it.

My email in the signature works. However, please don't send me your
design. I'm not into audio (pro or prosumer) and really don't have
the time to look at it, analyze it with LTSpice, critique it, build
it, or test it. Good luck with your design.

bruce2...@gmail.com

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Jul 6, 2019, 4:50:26 PM7/6/19

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On Sun, 30 Jun 2019 06:07:08 -0700 (PDT), Jeff Urban
<jurb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>

>>I prefer to use a hi-fi or entertainment contrivance that already
>>has proper external speakers and better bass/treble controls.
>
>Bass and treble ? I have a design that will blow your mind.
>If your public email is good I'll send you the print.

Are there graduate lab students or corporate scientists who’ve seen it and it’s results? Who are they and what are their findings?

Charles Lucas

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Jul 10, 2022, 5:46:52 PM7/10/22

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To add to this poster's point, a couple of things; The third notch in the cap. is for
heat dissipation because these are less expensive, cheaply made caps. Also, the
temperature co-efficient could be rated lower than what the circuit is designed for
(to assure low tolerance, higher likelihood of failure and making device outmoded).
I have seen many TV's with the 85 degree C caps working a lot better on 105 degree
C caps. I increased the temp coefficient to make the circuit more robust and dissipate
the heat. This made the TV l fixed more likely to last. Never had a customer complain.