Real photos of Highway 17 and Skyline in the Santa Cruz Mountains this week

[Stijn De Jong]

These are real photos taken this very week of what's going on in the
mountains where Jeff Liebermann lives due to the Pineapple Express dropping
unheard of rain in California (drought my ass!).

Highway 17 landslide turns car over, blocks both lanes, and cleanup crew
killed. http://i.cubeupload.com/VD5wTr.jpg

Hole in Skyline along the crest of the mountain ridge above the San Andreas
Fault opened up this week.
http://i.cubeupload.com/Q9zsF5.jpg

Why people in vans even think to attempt a crossing is beyond me.
http://i.cubeupload.com/HPg6Xo.jpg

[nospam]

In article <o7q9e5$nd6$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Stijn De Jong

<stijnd...@nlnet.nl> wrote:

>
> Why people in vans even think to attempt a crossing is beyond me.
> http://i.cubeupload.com/HPg6Xo.jpg

i doubt he was attempting to cross it. more likely he was not paying
any attention and only realized it when it was too late.

[Phil Hobbs]

At the moment, they're doing mud almost as well as you Dutchmen. ;)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

[Oren]

Living in California can be carcogenic.

[Savageduck]

On 2017-02-12 18:27:18 +0000, Stijn De Jong <stijnd...@nlnet.nl> said:

> These are real photos taken this very week of what's going on in the
> mountains where Jeff Liebermann lives due to the Pineapple Express dropping
> unheard of rain in California (drought my ass!).

...and yet in parts of the Central and Salinas Valleys, and some of the
Central and Southern California Counties, agriculture has sucked up so
much ground water it will take years to replenish via perculation, so
there the drought persists even with the surface being wet.



--
Regards,

Savageduck

[PeterN]

Thank you for posting.

Note to the Duck: IMHO the posted images are examples of images that
should not be altered in any manner, except possibly some very mild
sharpening.


--
PeterN

[PeterN]

Said with your usual knowledge of the facts:

--
PeterN

[nospam]

In article <o7qii...@news3.newsguy.com>, PeterN

<"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net> wrote:

> >> Why people in vans even think to attempt a crossing is beyond me.
> >> http://i.cubeupload.com/HPg6Xo.jpg
> >
> > i doubt he was attempting to cross it. more likely he was not paying
> > any attention and only realized it when it was too late.
>
> Said with your usual knowledge of the facts:

since you claim to have the facts, what was the driver's intention?

was he texting? did his brakes fail? were his tires bald?

or did he think he was evel knievel?

we await the answers.

[Savageduck]

On 2017-02-12 21:02:53 +0000, PeterN

Don't you have something to drink?

--
Regards,

Savageduck

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 18:27:18 +0000 (UTC), Stijn De Jong
<stijnd...@nlnet.nl> wrote:

>These are real photos taken this very week of what's going on in the
>mountains where Jeff Liebermann lives due to the Pineapple Express dropping
>unheard of rain in California (drought my ass!).

Much of the state is still in drought mode. The map below is from
last month and does NOT include the recent rains:
<http://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/Home/StateDroughtMonitor.aspx?CA>

Plug in "State" and "California" to get the historical graphs:
<http://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/MapsAndData/Graph.aspx>

>Highway 17 landslide turns car over, blocks both lanes, and cleanup crew
>killed. http://i.cubeupload.com/VD5wTr.jpg

Not exactly. Only one Granite Construction worker was killed by a
dump truck, not the overturned car:
<http://www.ksbw.com/article/highway-17-mudslide-worker-hit-by-vehicle/8698622>

I was filling up a mega-pothole in the road up my hill in the dark.
Not too clever but if it didn't get done, someone was going to break
an axle or disappear into the hole. I had two near misses, both times
by distracted drivers talking on their cell phones.

>Hole in Skyline along the crest of the mountain ridge above the San Andreas
>Fault opened up this week.
>http://i.cubeupload.com/Q9zsF5.jpg

Probably not the fault of the fault. More likely an underground
spring or river under the road, which undermined the pavement.

>Why people in vans even think to attempt a crossing is beyond me.
>http://i.cubeupload.com/HPg6Xo.jpg

Here's the story on the van:
<http://www.ksbw.com/article/van-crashes-into-giant-gap-in-santa-cruz-mountains/8693694>

More Santa Cruz flood and mud photos:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=santa+cruz+rain+photos&tbm=isch&tbs=qdr:w>

View of the San Lorenzo river just outside my office:
<http://www.mercurynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/sjm-storm-0208-403.jpg?w=620>

Except for the usual roof leaks, my house and office downtown are
doing fine. My local (San Lorenzo Valley) weather page:
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/wx/SLV-WX-links.html>
Might be something of interest in there as most links can be adapter
to other areas.



--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[nospam]

In article <vok1ac585kqa04clr...@4ax.com>, Jeff

Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:

> >Why people in vans even think to attempt a crossing is beyond me.
> >http://i.cubeupload.com/HPg6Xo.jpg
>
> Here's the story on the van:
>
> <http://www.ksbw.com/article/van-crashes-into-giant-gap-in-santa-cruz-mountain
> s/8693694>

"I saw what I thought was mud, I stepped on the brake, and it was too
late," he said.

stupid driver syndrome.

[Stijn De Jong]

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 16:02:53 -0500, PeterN wrote:

> Note to the Duck: IMHO the posted images are examples of images that
> should not be altered in any manner, except possibly some very mild
> sharpening.

I think you're implying that these photos were photoshopped, but they
weren't. They appear to be real.

Here's the news story on that photo (kindly provided by Jeff Liebermann)
which has multiple photos easily corroborating that original photo.
http://www.ksbw.com/article/van-crashes-into-giant-gap-in-santa-cruz-mountains/8693694

Or are you insinuating they're all photoshopped by the news media?
http://hips.htvapps.com/htv-prod-media.s3.amazonaws.com/images/no-more-road2-1486589973.jpg
http://hips.htvapps.com/htv-prod-media.s3.amazonaws.com/images/blue-van-333-1486693522.jpg
http://hips.htvapps.com/htv-prod-media.s3.amazonaws.com/images/van4-1486694623.jpg

[Stijn De Jong]

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 14:02:19 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

>>Highway 17 landslide turns car over, blocks both lanes, and cleanup crew
>>killed. http://i.cubeupload.com/VD5wTr.jpg
>
> Not exactly. Only one Granite Construction worker was killed by a
> dump truck, not the overturned car:
> <http://www.ksbw.com/article/highway-17-mudslide-worker-hit-by-vehicle/8698622>

I know. I didn't say that more than one person was killed, as it was a
father (and son) team working that day for Granite Construction where the
father died (Tuesday, I think) from an accident.

The overturned car was apparently pushed to the other lanes and flipped
over by the onrushing landslide. At least that's how I understood the news
to state. The guy was unhurt who was driving the overturned car.

Is that your understanding also?

>>Hole in Skyline along the crest of the mountain ridge above the San Andreas
>>Fault opened up this week.
>>http://i.cubeupload.com/Q9zsF5.jpg
>
> Probably not the fault of the fault. More likely an underground
> spring or river under the road, which undermined the pavement.

Yes. I didn't say it was the fault. I was just lining it up where it is for
the people who don't live here. The fault itself is closer to about 600
feet level while Skyline is something like 3000 foot level, so it's a
couple of miles as the crow flies from the actual fault itself.

Still, every road in the vicinity is cloesed, as you well know, from either
landslides or mudslides, as are every major trail in the canyons on the San
Jose side of the summit.

>>Why people in vans even think to attempt a crossing is beyond me.
>>http://i.cubeupload.com/HPg6Xo.jpg
>
> Here's the story on the van:
> <http://www.ksbw.com/article/van-crashes-into-giant-gap-in-santa-cruz-mountains/8693694>

Thanks for that underlying story on the blue van.
The photo, I know, is real; but it looks photoshopped.
It was emailed to me by a friend, so I trusted it.
Despite traveling as much as anyone, I've never had an accident in these
mountains. I just don't understand how anyone can fall into that hole,
unless they were parked over it when it happened.

Looking at your reference
http://www.ksbw.com/article/van-crashes-into-giant-gap-in-santa-cruz-mountains/8693694

It seems their picture is even more spectacular:
http://hips.htvapps.com/htv-prod-media.s3.amazonaws.com/images/no-more-road2-1486589973.jpg

His power was out, so he got candles at the store. He should just have had
a generator, like the rest of us have. The power went out about five or six
times this winter alone, once for 4 or 4 days already.

He was driving too fast for the conditions. He thought the hole was mud. It
was dark. It may have been raining. He had been on that road just an hour
before (and there wasn't a hole at that time).

The guy moved here from NY city just this week, and Monday was his first
day on the job. He's gonna learn that California weather, like the
residents, is wacky!

But, you can't believe anything on California news because everything tends
to the super monstrous liberal, so they distort facts accordingly (e.g., on
the so-called drought).

> More Santa Cruz flood and mud photos:
> <https://www.google.com/search?q=santa+cruz+rain+photos&tbm=isch&tbs=qdr:w>

This one of those is Highway 17 where the SUV flipped by the mudslide
(supposedly) and the worker died cleaning it up:
http://www.mercurynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/img_39461.jpg

The mudslide wiped out both lanes of the northbound side, it seems:
http://www.mercurynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/norcal_storm_shmuel-tha_21.jpg

This is apparently the remains of his SUV, flipped right-side up:
http://www.mercurynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/img_39511.jpg

I'm trying to figure out where this one is?
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4V7UT1UcAASgMk.jpg

Is that Skyline?
If so, it looks like it's a good place to put up a bridge.

> View of the San Lorenzo river just outside my office:
> <http://www.mercurynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/sjm-storm-0208-403.jpg?w=620>

Isn't that the same river that washed out Highway 9 last week?

> Except for the usual roof leaks, my house and office downtown are
> doing fine. My local (San Lorenzo Valley) weather page:
> <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/wx/SLV-WX-links.html>
> Might be something of interest in there as most links can be adapter
> to other areas.

I'm not sure what the plastic is supposed to do:
http://cdn.abclocal.go.com/content/kgo/images/cms/automation/vod/1748305_1280x720.jpg

We have been getting horizontal rain over on the Loma side of things.

[Stijn De Jong]

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 11:59:50 -0800, Savageduck wrote:

> ...and yet in parts of the Central and Salinas Valleys, and some of the
> Central and Southern California Counties, agriculture has sucked up so
> much ground water it will take years to replenish via perculation, so
> there the drought persists even with the surface being wet

It's my understanding that agriculture takes up 85% of California water.
Of course, they don't advertise that.
What they advertise on all the road signs is to conserve water at home.
Yet all the homes in California only take about 15% of the water.
And, we're already conserving like hell.

Yet, we have to pay for road signs to tell us to conserve water while we're
driving.

It's a political farce.

[nospam]

In article <o7qii...@news3.newsguy.com>, PeterN

<"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net> wrote:

> >> Why people in vans even think to attempt a crossing is beyond me.
> >> http://i.cubeupload.com/HPg6Xo.jpg
> >
> > i doubt he was attempting to cross it. more likely he was not paying
> > any attention and only realized it when it was too late.
> >
>
> Said with your usual knowledge of the facts:

looks like i was exactly right:

[Savageduck]

...and he was one of those NY drivers who know how to drive in
California drizzle.
--
Regards,

Savageduck

[Stijn De Jong]

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 18:07:08 -0500, nospam wrote:

> "I saw what I thought was mud, I stepped on the brake, and it was too
> late," he said.
>
> stupid driver syndrome.

According to the article Jeff referenced, the driver was from NY city.
It's his first week in California.
He didn't know how to drive on mountain roads (apparently).

In NY, you look for "black ice".
In CA, you look for black holes.

[nospam]

In article <o7qual$1sm2$4...@gioia.aioe.org>, Stijn De Jong

<stijnd...@nlnet.nl> wrote:

>
> > "I saw what I thought was mud, I stepped on the brake, and it was too
> > late," he said.
> >
> > stupid driver syndrome.
>
> According to the article Jeff referenced, the driver was from NY city.
> It's his first week in California.
> He didn't know how to drive on mountain roads (apparently).

he's still a stupid driver.

[Stijn De Jong]

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 19:26:52 -0500, nospam wrote:

>> He didn't know how to drive on mountain roads (apparently).
>
> he's still a stupid driver.

I am agreeing with you.
If you can't miss a 20 foot wide hole, you're not gonna miss a pedestrian
either. Or even a guardrail.

He was a bad driver, no doubt about it.
I agree with you.

You're supposed to maintain control of your vehicle, and driving into a
hole isn't maintaining control. He should have been able to stop.

If he couldn't stop, then he was driving too fast.
What if someone was standing in the road, for example.

He'd have run them over.

[Dean Hoffman]

A quick search. Public Policy Institute of California.
<http://www.ppic.org/main/publication_show.asp?i=1108>

[PeterN]

Exactly where did I make a positive statement of fact, other than my
observation about your knowledge of the facts that support your
conclusion. But then just another attempt at a twist.

--
PeterN

[et...@whidbey.com]

He couldn't have been going very fast by the time he left the road by
the looks of his van. Though I'm sure the mud was pretty soft there
would still have been a lot body damage to the van if he was traveling
very fast. Musta been a pretty big surprise when the van dropped into
that hole.
Eric

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 23:23:02 +0000 (UTC), Stijn De Jong
<stijnd...@nlnet.nl> wrote:

>The overturned car was apparently pushed to the other lanes and flipped
>over by the onrushing landslide. At least that's how I understood the news
>to state. The guy was unhurt who was driving the overturned car.
>
>Is that your understanding also?

Yep.
<http://www.ktvu.com/news/234511700-story>
The mudslide also shoved the over the center divider. Bad timing, I
guess.

>>Why people in vans even think to attempt a crossing is beyond me.
>>http://i.cubeupload.com/HPg6Xo.jpg

>The photo, I know, is real; but it looks photoshopped.

It's real, judging by the number of photos shot from different angles.
<http://www.ksbw.com/article/van-crashes-into-giant-gap-in-santa-cruz-mountains/8693694>
Fake photos usually are singles.

>Despite traveling as much as anyone, I've never had an accident in these
>mountains.

Same here. Well, maybe if you don't include backing up into cars,
trees, poles, hillsides, ditches, etc.

>I just don't understand how anyone can fall into that hole,
>unless they were parked over it when it happened.

Possibly speeding. Look at the photo at:
<http://hips.htvapps.com/htv-prod-media.s3.amazonaws.com/images/van4-1486694623.jpg?crop=0.998xw:1.00xh;0.00173xw,0&resize=4500:*>
Notice how the van has literally plowed into the opposite side of the
gully. If he were going slower, the van would have gone over nose
down, and possibly ended up vertically, or fallen over on its top.
However, I'm guessing. The driver was lucky.

>His power was out, so he got candles at the store. He should just have had
>a generator, like the rest of us have. The power went out about five or six
>times this winter alone, once for 4 or 4 days already.

Mine went out for more than 5 minutes perhaps 4 times. The longest
was about 2 hrs.

>The guy moved here from NY city just this week, and Monday was his first
>day on the job.

Do people actually drive in New York city? Must have been quite a
change for him.

>But, you can't believe anything on California news because everything tends
>to the super monstrous liberal, so they distort facts accordingly (e.g., on
>the so-called drought).

Facts? We don't do no stinkin facts. This is the land of opinions,
feelings, and progress through meditation.

>This is apparently the remains of his SUV, flipped right-side up:
>http://www.mercurynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/img_39511.jpg

Kinda makes me want to install an internal roll bar.

>I'm trying to figure out where this one is?
>https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4V7UT1UcAASgMk.jpg

No EXIF info and therefore no lat-long.

>Is that Skyline?
>If so, it looks like it's a good place to put up a bridge.

Judging by slope and the "view", I agree. It's probably Skyline.
See the red and white line at (if Hwy 9 is still closed):
<https://www.google.com/maps/@37.2551091,-122.1089171,14z/data=!5m1!1e1>

>> View of the San Lorenzo river just outside my office:
>> <http://www.mercurynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/sjm-storm-0208-403.jpg?w=620>
>
>Isn't that the same river that washed out Highway 9 last week?

Yes, but that was in Boulder Creek, 15 miles to the north.

>I'm not sure what the plastic is supposed to do:
>http://cdn.abclocal.go.com/content/kgo/images/cms/automation/vod/1748305_1280x720.jpg

Keep the rain and runoff from further eroding the hillside. However,
it won't do anything for underground rivers and springs.

>We have been getting horizontal rain over on the Loma side of things.

I hate when that happens. It ruins my rainfall measurements because
the rain misses the rain gauge.

[nospam]

In article <id12acp2bjrpptb1f...@4ax.com>, Jeff

Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:

> >The guy moved here from NY city just this week, and Monday was his first
> >day on the job.
>
> Do people actually drive in New York city?

yes, and rather well. it's the jersey drivers that you have to watch
out for.

> Must have been quite a
> change for him.

apparently so.

[PeterN]

On 2/12/2017 6:22 PM, Stijn De Jong wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 16:02:53 -0500, PeterN wrote:
>
>> Note to the Duck: IMHO the posted images are examples of images that
>> should not be altered in any manner, except possibly some very mild
>> sharpening.
>
> I think you're implying that these photos were photoshopped, but they
> weren't. They appear to be real.

Not at all. In fact I was expressly stating that they should not be
Photoshopped. Your posting came just at the point that the Duck and I
were having a discussion about Photoshopping images. The gist of which
is that he and I shoot for different purposes.

>
> Here's the news story on that photo (kindly provided by Jeff Liebermann)
> which has multiple photos easily corroborating that original photo.
> http://www.ksbw.com/article/van-crashes-into-giant-gap-in-santa-cruz-mountains/8693694
>
>
> Or are you insinuating they're all photoshopped by the news media?
> http://hips.htvapps.com/htv-prod-media.s3.amazonaws.com/images/no-more-road2-1486589973.jpg
>
> http://hips.htvapps.com/htv-prod-media.s3.amazonaws.com/images/blue-van-333-1486693522.jpg
>
> http://hips.htvapps.com/htv-prod-media.s3.amazonaws.com/images/van4-1486694623.jpg
>

--
PeterN

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 23:23:05 +0000 (UTC), Stijn De Jong
<stijnd...@nlnet.nl> wrote:

>It's my understanding that agriculture takes up 85% of California water.
>Of course, they don't advertise that.
>What they advertise on all the road signs is to conserve water at home.
>Yet all the homes in California only take about 15% of the water.
>And, we're already conserving like hell.

<http://www.scpr.org/news/2015/04/15/50941/10-things-to-know-about-california-water-use/>
"We hear all the time that growers use 80 percent of California's
water. And state officials do say California's 9 million acres of
farmland consume that much. But that's 80 percent of human water
use."

<http://www.ppic.org/main/publication_show.asp?i=1108>
"Statewide, average water use is roughly 50% environmental,
40% agricultural, and 10% urban..."

>Yet, we have to pay for road signs to tell us to conserve water while we're
>driving.

It's a conspiracy to make you thirsty so that you'll drop into an
overpriced convenience store for something to drink.

>It's a political farce.

Hardly. It's the current reality. Government believes that you need
to be told what to do and what not to do. That's what laws are all
about. You need to be told how to behave because otherwise, you might
go around leaving the water running, or commit some other crime
against the environment. Just salute as you drive by the sign and
you'll be all right.

[PeterN]

On 2/12/2017 8:35 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

<snip>

> Do people actually drive in New York city? Must have been quite a
> change for him.
>

The natives of the City and its environs, only do so when necessary. At
least not during the rush hour.



--
PeterN

[Oren]

On Mon, 13 Feb 2017 00:23:50 +0000 (UTC), Stijn De Jong
<stijnd...@nlnet.nl> wrote:

>In NY, you look for "black ice".
>In CA, you look for black holes.

In NV you look for signs to go back where you came from.
We don't need those folks.

[nospam]

In article <o7r3a...@news6.newsguy.com>, PeterN

<"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net> wrote:

> > Do people actually drive in New York city? Must have been quite a
> > change for him.
> >
>
> The natives of the City and its environs, only do so when necessary. At
> least not during the rush hour.

then why is there so much traffic in midtown?

[Eric Stevens]

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 13:32:28 -0500, nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

>In article <o7q9e5$nd6$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Stijn De Jong

><stijnd...@nlnet.nl> wrote:
>
>>
>> Why people in vans even think to attempt a crossing is beyond me.
>> http://i.cubeupload.com/HPg6Xo.jpg
>

>i doubt he was attempting to cross it. more likely he was not paying
>any attention and only realized it when it was too late.

It's always possible that the hole got there after the van did.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 20:50:47 -0500, nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

<https://www.google.com/search?q=new+york+city+traffic&tbm=isch>
Kinda looks like mostly taxi cabs, buses, delivery vans, tour buses,
but very few private vehicles. Even if he had experience driving in
New York city, he couldn't have been driving very fast.

[nospam]

In article <3n42achgnc5ij92dr...@4ax.com>, Jeff

Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:

> >
> >> > Do people actually drive in New York city? Must have been quite a
> >> > change for him.
> >>
> >> The natives of the City and its environs, only do so when necessary. At
> >> least not during the rush hour.
> >
> >then why is there so much traffic in midtown?
>
> <https://www.google.com/search?q=new+york+city+traffic&tbm=isch>
> Kinda looks like mostly taxi cabs, buses, delivery vans, tour buses,
> but very few private vehicles. Even if he had experience driving in
> New York city, he couldn't have been driving very fast.

he could on roads outside of midtown itself.

[nospam]

In article <o7quo4$1ta7$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Stijn De Jong

<stijnd...@nlnet.nl> wrote:

>
> >> He didn't know how to drive on mountain roads (apparently).
> >
> > he's still a stupid driver.
>
> I am agreeing with you.
> If you can't miss a 20 foot wide hole, you're not gonna miss a pedestrian
> either. Or even a guardrail.
>
> He was a bad driver, no doubt about it.
> I agree with you.
>
> You're supposed to maintain control of your vehicle, and driving into a
> hole isn't maintaining control. He should have been able to stop.
>
> If he couldn't stop, then he was driving too fast.

he was driving too fast for conditions and not paying attention either.

hopefully he learned a lesson. probably not though.

> What if someone was standing in the road, for example.
>
> He'd have run them over.

maybe.

pedestrians don't usually stand in the road so it's rarely an issue.

however, there are definitely stupid ones who step into moving traffic
expecting that the vehicles will stop, or they don't even bother
looking to see if there is any traffic at all. stupidity is not limited
to just drivers.

at least for people who step into traffic, they learn a quick lesson
and likely won't do it again, usually because they're unable to walk
anymore or dead.

[Eric Stevens]

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 21:54:45 -0500, nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

>In article <o7quo4$1ta7$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Stijn De Jong
><stijnd...@nlnet.nl> wrote:
>
>>
>> >> He didn't know how to drive on mountain roads (apparently).
>> >
>> > he's still a stupid driver.
>>
>> I am agreeing with you.
>> If you can't miss a 20 foot wide hole, you're not gonna miss a pedestrian
>> either. Or even a guardrail.
>>
>> He was a bad driver, no doubt about it.
>> I agree with you.
>>
>> You're supposed to maintain control of your vehicle, and driving into a
>> hole isn't maintaining control. He should have been able to stop.
>>
>> If he couldn't stop, then he was driving too fast.
>
>he was driving too fast for conditions and not paying attention either.

It's clear from the news item that he actually misjudged the
situation. He thought he was driving through mud, which probably
something he could have got away with, but in fact he was driving into
a hole ...

Driver error.

>
>hopefully he learned a lesson. probably not though.
>
>> What if someone was standing in the road, for example.
>>
>> He'd have run them over.
>
>maybe.
>
>pedestrians don't usually stand in the road so it's rarely an issue.
>
>however, there are definitely stupid ones who step into moving traffic
>expecting that the vehicles will stop, or they don't even bother
>looking to see if there is any traffic at all. stupidity is not limited
>to just drivers.
>
>at least for people who step into traffic, they learn a quick lesson
>and likely won't do it again, usually because they're unable to walk
>anymore or dead.

--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

[android]

In article <o7qual$1sm2$4...@gioia.aioe.org>,

Stijn De Jong <stijnd...@nlnet.nl> wrote:

That thingy looked more lie a wormhole...
--
teleportation kills

[android]

In article <gl42achl1ekjikjut...@4ax.com>,

Yes... It could have been an occurrence of an unscheduled twist in the
time space continuum. The boss gets vimy occasionally! ;-))
--
teleportation kills

[micky]

In sci.electronics.repair, on Sun, 12 Feb 2017 17:35:22 -0800, Jeff

Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:

>
>>His power was out, so he got candles at the store. He should just have had
>>a generator, like the rest of us have. The power went out about five or six
>>times this winter alone, once for 4 or 4 days already.
>
>Mine went out for more than 5 minutes perhaps 4 times. The longest
>was about 2 hrs.
>
>>The guy moved here from NY city just this week, and Monday was his first
>>day on the job.
>
>Do people actually drive in New York city? Must have been quite a
>change for him.

Actually, even in 1966, there were a million cars registered in NYC, I
would expect it to be higher now. Atlhough I suppose the rate was
lowest in Manhattan.

>
>>But, you can't believe anything on California news because everything tends
>>to the super monstrous liberal, so they distort facts accordingly (e.g., on
>>the so-called drought).

And of course conservatives don't distort the facts. If you believe
liberals do it more, well...

>Facts? We don't do no stinkin facts. This is the land of opinions,
>feelings, and progress through meditation.
>
>>This is apparently the remains of his SUV, flipped right-side up:
>>http://www.mercurynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/img_39511.jpg
>
>Kinda makes me want to install an internal roll bar.
>
>>I'm trying to figure out where this one is?
>>https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4V7UT1UcAASgMk.jpg

But I do think they should put in a bridge when there is a gap this
long. ;-)

>
>No EXIF info and therefore no lat-long.
>
>>Is that Skyline?
>>If so, it looks like it's a good place to put up a bridge.
>
>Judging by slope and the "view", I agree. It's probably Skyline.
>See the red and white line at (if Hwy 9 is still closed):
><https://www.google.com/maps/@37.2551091,-122.1089171,14z/data=!5m1!1e1>
>
>>> View of the San Lorenzo river just outside my office:
>>> <http://www.mercurynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/sjm-storm-0208-403.jpg?w=620>

I'm glad you weren't washed away.

>>Isn't that the same river that washed out Highway 9 last week?
>
>Yes, but that was in Boulder Creek, 15 miles to the north.
>
>>I'm not sure what the plastic is supposed to do:
>>http://cdn.abclocal.go.com/content/kgo/images/cms/automation/vod/1748305_1280x720.jpg
>
>Keep the rain and runoff from further eroding the hillside. However,

But what is the vertical thing on the left? It's 2 or 3 feet tall.

>it won't do anything for underground rivers and springs.
>
>>We have been getting horizontal rain over on the Loma side of things.
>
>I hate when that happens. It ruins my rainfall measurements because
>the rain misses the rain gauge.

Maybe you could mount a tube horizontally, on a weather vane so it faces
the wind.

[nospam]

In article <9rp2acpm0h521r6v4...@4ax.com>, Eric Stevens

<eric.s...@sum.co.nz> wrote:

> >> >> He didn't know how to drive on mountain roads (apparently).
> >> >
> >> > he's still a stupid driver.
> >>
> >> I am agreeing with you.
> >> If you can't miss a 20 foot wide hole, you're not gonna miss a pedestrian
> >> either. Or even a guardrail.
> >>
> >> He was a bad driver, no doubt about it.
> >> I agree with you.
> >>
> >> You're supposed to maintain control of your vehicle, and driving into a
> >> hole isn't maintaining control. He should have been able to stop.
> >>
> >> If he couldn't stop, then he was driving too fast.
> >
> >he was driving too fast for conditions and not paying attention either.
>
> It's clear from the news item that he actually misjudged the
> situation. He thought he was driving through mud, which probably
> something he could have got away with, but in fact he was driving into
> a hole ...
>
> Driver error.

that's what i said. stupid driver syndrome.

unfortunately, he's still driving and putting others in danger.

[android]

In article <130220170728191296%nos...@nospam.invalid>,

He could be right. The undermined paving, covered with mud probably
collapsed under the weight of the car...

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_surface#/media/File:Composite_pavemen
t_x-sect.jpg>
--
teleportation kills

[PeterN]

Vehicles double and triple parked slows things down. A very high
percentage is business traffic.

--
PeterN

[PeterN]

On 2/13/2017 7:28 AM, nospam wrote:
> In article <9rp2acpm0h521r6v4...@4ax.com>, Eric Stevens
> <eric.s...@sum.co.nz> wrote:

<snip>

>>
>> Driver error.
>
> that's what i said. stupid driver syndrome.
>
> unfortunately, he's still driving and putting others in danger.
>

Now that you have demonstrated a lack of understanding of the difference
between stupidity, carelessness, and ignorance, what mnore are you
showing us.
No don't bother.

--
PeterN

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 13 Feb 2017 05:00:31 -0500, micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com>
wrote:

>>>http://cdn.abclocal.go.com/content/kgo/images/cms/automation/vod/1748305_1280x720.jpg

>But what is the vertical thing on the left? It's 2 or 3 feet tall.

Temporary concrete "Jersey" highway barriers:
<http://www.belson.com/Concrete-Security-Barriers-Highway>
It's a convenient place to anchor the tarps. However, putting all
that weight on a crumbling roadway does not seem like a good idea.

[micky]

In sci.electronics.repair, on Sun, 12 Feb 2017 20:46:00 -0500, PeterN

One time I drove from Brooklyn to the Upper West Side during rush hour
without getting stuck in traffic once. I think this might have been
when part of the Westside Highway was closed too, because I suppose I
would have taken that if it were open. . I'm not sure I remember how,
but I think I went west to avoid the Holland tunnel traffic, then east
for a one way avenue, then west again to avoid Lincoln Tunnel traffic,
and then to 10th Avenue / Amsterdam Avenue and up to 86th St.

I knew how to park for cheap at the Fulton Fish Market too, which was
open until about 8:30AM and had room after that. Although eventually
they moved the fish market to the Bronx.


New York City news report:
We have bad news and good news to report. The bad news is that the
world will end tomorrow. The good news is that alternate side of the
street parking regulations have been suspended.

[Stijn De Jong]

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 17:35:22 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

> Possibly speeding. Look at the photo at:
> <http://hips.htvapps.com/htv-prod-media.s3.amazonaws.com/images/van4-1486694623.jpg?crop=0.998xw:1.00xh;0.00173xw,0&resize=4500:*>
> Notice how the van has literally plowed into the opposite side of the
> gully. If he were going slower, the van would have gone over nose
> down, and possibly ended up vertically, or fallen over on its top.
> However, I'm guessing. The driver was lucky.

This is a good point that, if he had just edged over the cliff, he'd likely
have gone down nose first.

He had momentum, it seems possible.

> Mine went out for more than 5 minutes perhaps 4 times. The longest
> was about 2 hrs.

The PG&E crew out here knows me by name! I talk to them as they park their
trucks on the side roads. I have their cell numbers! What happens, they
tell me, is that have "isolators" and "fuses".

The fuses are literally fuses. THey have to be manually replaced.
The isolators are circuit breakers that go out for short periods of time
(like less than 30 seconds). They have 3 trip points:
a) If a tree branch hits the wires, causing a short, they trip.
b) They wait a short period of time, and go back on
c) That can happen a second time
d) The third time, they shut off completely.

So, often you'll get 30-second outages out here, which is what the PG&E
guys tell me. The way to tell is to call it in as a "real" outage. They
actually call you back since you're the ONLY one reporting the real outage.
They check their software, which shows that it only tripped at the source.
So if you have a real outage, then it's just you. That's why they call you
back.

Its' a great way to get to know the PG&E guys. :)

The reason I *though* the power was out was because I could hear my
generator, but it turns out my generator runs longer than 30 seconds when
the power is only out for 30 seconds. SO they told me to look at the smart
meter before calling. :)

> Facts? We don't do no stinkin facts. This is the land of opinions,
> feelings, and progress through meditation.

yup. Global warming. Energy Crisis. Trumpism. All disasters in California
due to politics alone. :)

>>Isn't that the same river that washed out Highway 9 last week?
>
> Yes, but that was in Boulder Creek, 15 miles to the north.

Thanks. I saw Sanborn all washed out. Entire cliffs wiped out all three
trails going into Lake Ranch (which is directly on top of the San Andreas
fault line).

There is no way to get a vehicle into Lake Ranch at the moment even though
it has three access roads. All three are gone at some point (multiple
points in two of the three).

>>I'm not sure what the plastic is supposed to do:
>>http://cdn.abclocal.go.com/content/kgo/images/cms/automation/vod/1748305_1280x720.jpg
>
> Keep the rain and runoff from further eroding the hillside. However,
> it won't do anything for underground rivers and springs.

They put some of that plastic on the roads I use to get home. I think it's
wishful thinking. What they did was put asphalt on top of the plastic (to
hold it down). I doubt it will stop much since the slumping is from below.

>>We have been getting horizontal rain over on the Loma side of things.
>
> I hate when that happens. It ruins my rainfall measurements because
> the rain misses the rain gauge.

All you have to do is turn the rain gauge sideways!
:)

[Stijn De Jong]

On Mon, 13 Feb 2017 16:24:14 +0100, android wrote:

> He could be right. The undermined paving, covered with mud probably
> collapsed under the weight of the car...

That's an interesting observation.
Maybe the road was still there when he drove over it, and maybe it dropped
out from under him?

I'm sure if someone was there before him who might have reported it as a
collapse, then that didn't happen, but I don't know if that's the case.

So, at this point, it's possible that there "was" a road there when he
drove on it, and it collapsed out from under him, I guess.

Either way, let's hope he's learned how to deal with the mountains.

[Stijn De Jong]

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 20:39:32 -0500, PeterN wrote:

> Not at all. In fact I was expressly stating that they should not be
> Photoshopped. Your posting came just at the point that the Duck and I
> were having a discussion about Photoshopping images. The gist of which
> is that he and I shoot for different purposes.

Thanks for explaining 'cuz I wasn't sure so I apologize if I auto-completed
incorrectly.

I once read that almost all (and that means almost all) images are "touched
up" to some extent when published in paper print media. Apparently almost
not a single photo isn't changed to some extent.

This one certainly looked out of place, since the blue van had not a spot
of mud on it, and it was shiny and clean and not all crumpled up (only one
small dent in the roof).

So it certainly seemed out of place.
Plus the angle of the best shot was from the air (unless there is a road
across from where the accident occurred).

So, I agree, it *looked* photoshopped.

[Stijn De Jong]

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 17:44:24 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

>>Yet, we have to pay for road signs to tell us to conserve water while we're
>>driving.
>
> It's a conspiracy to make you thirsty so that you'll drop into an
> overpriced convenience store for something to drink.

My point is those are emergency road signs.
What are they for?
Why do we pay for them?

Originally they went in for amber alert and traffic conditions, and road
closure purposes. Which is fine.

But when they start putting on signs saying "brush your teeth", then they
went too far.

Basically, they're abusing the signs, is my point, by even mentioning
water, because (a) it's not a roadside emergency that we can do anything
about while driving, and (b) it's not gonna make a difference since
agriculture is what uses almost all the water (not homes).

>>It's a political farce.
>
> Hardly. It's the current reality. Government believes that you need
> to be told what to do and what not to do.

The government is welcome to tell me, but they can do it with mailings and
news and print, not emergency roadside signs.

What's next on those signs? "Wash behind your ears?"

> That's what laws are all
> about. You need to be told how to behave because otherwise, you might
> go around leaving the water running, or commit some other crime
> against the environment. Just salute as you drive by the sign and
> you'll be all right.

Every time I see those stupid drought messages, I tell my kids how dumb the
gob'ment is, and how they abuse EVERYTHING so the only solution is not to
give them the power to abuse things.

[Stijn De Jong]

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 19:16:43 -0600, Dean Hoffman wrote:

>> It's a political farce.
>

> A quick search. Public Policy Institute of California.
> <http://www.ppic.org/main/publication_show.asp?i=1108>

Thanks for that reference.
Based on a quick read of that reference, the political farce behind those
idiotic road signs is even worse than I had thought.

"Approximately nine million acres of farmland in California are irrigated,
representing roughly 80% of all water used for businesses and homes."

"Total urban water use has been falling even as the population grows. Even
before the latest drought, per capita water use had declined
significantly?from 232 gallons per day in 1995 to 178 gallons per day in
2010?reflecting substantial efforts to reduce water"

The "urban" use is what those road signs target.
I feel they're a political farce because:
a) These are freaking emergency road signs - not political placards
b) We homeowners aren't the ones using the water (we use only 10%!)
c) There's nothing more we can do (we have cut back tremendously already!)
d) There's nothing we can do while driving in our cars!

What galls me is that we PAY for those road signs, which serve an emergency
purpose for safety roadway and amber-alert reasons (where license plates an
and make/model/color of perpetrator's vehicles are posted which we can do
something about while driving).

But the idiotic state employees use those emergency signs for freaking
drought purposes, which is not a roadside emergency which has anything to
do with highways and which anyone can do anything about while driving and
which isn't appropriate.

It's all a political abuse of power for political purposes.
(They want us to "feel" the drought, even though we're not the problem.)

[android]

In article <o7ssvb$18u7$6...@gioia.aioe.org>,

Stijn De Jong <stijnd...@nlnet.nl> wrote:

> On Mon, 13 Feb 2017 16:24:14 +0100, android wrote:
>
> > He could be right. The undermined paving, covered with mud probably
> > collapsed under the weight of the car...
>
> That's an interesting observation.
> Maybe the road was still there when he drove over it, and maybe it dropped
> out from under him?

That was that that I wrote...

>
> I'm sure if someone was there before him who might have reported it as a
> collapse, then that didn't happen, but I don't know if that's the case.
>
> So, at this point, it's possible that there "was" a road there when he
> drove on it, and it collapsed out from under him, I guess.
>
> Either way, let's hope he's learned how to deal with the mountains.

Oki...
--
teleportation kills

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 13 Feb 2017 08:43:48 -0800, Jeff Liebermann

<je...@cruzio.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 13 Feb 2017 05:00:31 -0500, micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com>
>wrote:
>
>>>>http://cdn.abclocal.go.com/content/kgo/images/cms/automation/vod/1748305_1280x720.jpg
>
>>But what is the vertical thing on the left? It's 2 or 3 feet tall.
>
>Temporary concrete "Jersey" highway barriers:
><http://www.belson.com/Concrete-Security-Barriers-Highway>
>It's a convenient place to anchor the tarps. However, putting all
>that weight on a crumbling roadway does not seem like a good idea.

No, it doesn't. Maybe the idea is to be sure it takes the plastic down
the hill when the road gives way.

Did you or someone imply that some pictures on the web had location data
that you or I could extract? And then go to the place.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 13 Feb 2017 18:12:58 +0000 (UTC), Stijn De Jong
<stijnd...@nlnet.nl> wrote:

>>>We have been getting horizontal rain over on the Loma side of things.
>>
>> I hate when that happens. It ruins my rainfall measurements because
>> the rain misses the rain gauge.
>
>All you have to do is turn the rain gauge sideways!
>:)

<http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/181263/rain-measurement-with-wind-blowing>
<http://novalynx.com/store/pc/260-952-Alter-Type-Wind-Screen-8p225.htm>
I thought they were to discourage birds from sitting on the rain gauge
rim and from dumping their load into the funnel. However, it won't do
anything for horizontal rainfall.

Another problem is where someone located the rain collector on the
apex of a hip roof. Wind blowing perpendicular to the roof will
create an updraft, causing the rain to "fall" upwards. I've watched
it happen.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 13 Feb 2017 13:41:54 -0500, micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com>
wrote:

>In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 13 Feb 2017 08:43:48 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
><je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 13 Feb 2017 05:00:31 -0500, micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>>>http://cdn.abclocal.go.com/content/kgo/images/cms/automation/vod/1748305_1280x720.jpg
>>
>>>But what is the vertical thing on the left? It's 2 or 3 feet tall.
>>
>>Temporary concrete "Jersey" highway barriers:
>><http://www.belson.com/Concrete-Security-Barriers-Highway>
>>It's a convenient place to anchor the tarps. However, putting all
>>that weight on a crumbling roadway does not seem like a good idea.

>No, it doesn't.

No, it doesn't what? Doesn't anchor the tarps or doesn't seem like a
good idea? Please eschew posting ambiguous obfuscations.

>Maybe the idea is to be sure it takes the plastic down
>the hill when the road gives way.

Nope. Might be a trampoline to catch erratically driven vans trying
to jump the gap. Hard to tell, but it does look like a fun ride.

>Did you or someone imply that some pictures on the web had location data
>that you or I could extract? And then go to the place.

Guilty as charged. That was me.

Most web photos do NOT have EXIF information. I use Irfanview for
photo editing. It also has an EXIF viewer and editor built in with
links to various mapping sites.
<http://www.irfanview.com>
You'll need both the program and the plugins. Save the image to your
machine, feed it to Irfanview, hit "I" (for information), and you can
figure out the rest. I couldn't find a decent video or tutorial so
here's what it should look like:
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/EXIF%20Info.jpg>
Use the buttons at the bottom for mapping. Enjoy. Incidentally,
that's how everyone found out that John McAfee was in Belize. He
posted some photos with the EXIF info was not removed and that
included the location data. Oops.

[Eric Stevens]

I wrote that before I realised that I was near the top of a long
thread. Lower down I read the actual explanation. Nevertheless I may
have been partly right. It could have been that the first time he
crossed that section of the road it was covered with flowing mud. When
he came back he again thought the road was (as he said) covered with
mud but by then it was a hole.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

[avag...@gmail.com]

http://www.online-sciences.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/periscope-88.jpeg

[avag...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, February 12, 2017 at 1:27:21 PM UTC-5, Stijn De Jong wrote:
> These are real photos taken this very week of what's going on in the
> mountains where Jeff Liebermann lives due to the Pineapple Express dropping
> unheard of rain in California (drought my ass!).
>
> Highway 17 landslide turns car over, blocks both lanes, and cleanup crew
> killed. http://i.cubeupload.com/VD5wTr.jpg
>
> Hole in Skyline along the crest of the mountain ridge above the San Andreas
> Fault opened up this week.
> http://i.cubeupload.com/Q9zsF5.jpg

>
> Why people in vans even think to attempt a crossing is beyond me.
> http://i.cubeupload.com/HPg6Xo.jpg

the SAF runs thru the lakes on the east side

[avag...@gmail.com]

my truck doors slammed shut when I opened the van photo

[avag...@gmail.com]

AE6KS 831-336-2558

pleased your ground held !

I dug a hole for my in hillside therml sink house

went to Jersey for some stuff

n a tornado hopped over the hill n into the foundation hopped out n proceeded to hop hop hop down the street

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sep 25, 2016 OLD FAITHFUL-LOWER STA Sale



09/19/2016 Chevron 0202401 Yuma Az

https://waterdata.usgs.gov/ca/nwis/dv/?site_no=11160500&agency_cd=USGS&referred_module=sw

[avag...@gmail.com]

goo.gl/F5eq39

excellent McD down the street.

the ridge beyond is the desert to the right the Desierto

goo.gl/dyhcMS

to the left Yuma Pro BLAM BLAM ving ground n the dam feeding the California Aquifer.

and the Mohawk Canal !

The Colorado

http://www.californiaherps.com/frogs/habitats/coloradoriver9062.jpg

a place to start from

[David Lesher]

Hey Jeff:

I thought of you while on the Wet Coast last month.

I was in Sandy Eggo, where it was 51F and dreary, while warm and sunny
on the East Coast.

Then I was tipped to <http://www.sccroadclosure.org/> -- at the
time I saw almost every road I knew of listed, save Freedom
Blvd, and Fern Flat - but that's private.

I also saw a picture of a
<http://testsanat.com/fr/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/6-testsanat.jpg>
on a far steeper slope, maybe along 9.

I skipped your area & flew to SEATAC via Sacramento; there was
miles of flooded farmland visible.

But the worst indignity was 27 Feb: I left the [MUST SEE] Museum
of Flight, and realized I could not see the bus stop midst the
snow... and I-5 was closed both ways from a propane tanker
sidewise...

I got back to BWI; and it was 80 on Wed.

{not to beat up on Jeff; I like visiting Santa Cruz/Aptos/etc. But..}




--
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close..........................
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

[Savageduck]

On 2017-03-09 17:36:10 +0000, David Lesher <wb8...@panix.com> said:

>
> Hey Jeff:

Hello Nymshifter.

Now go away.


--
Regards,

Savageduck

[nospam]

In article <2017030909531459037-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom>,

Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

> On 2017-03-09 17:36:10 +0000, David Lesher <wb8...@panix.com> said:
>
> >
> > Hey Jeff:
>
> Hello Nymshifter.
>
> Now go away.

false hit.

[John Robertson]

On 2017/02/12 10:32 AM, nospam wrote:
> In article <o7q9e5$nd6$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Stijn De Jong
> <stijnd...@nlnet.nl> wrote:
>
>>

>> Why people in vans even think to attempt a crossing is beyond me.
>> http://i.cubeupload.com/HPg6Xo.jpg
>

> i doubt he was attempting to cross it. more likely he was not paying
> any attention and only realized it when it was too late.
>

Or the road just collapsed out from under him. It was a landslide, and
if it was raining hard (or night) he (or she) may have had no warning at
all.

John