crappy laptop company

[bitrex]

I had to hound Lenovo for months to get a warranty service on my failed
less than 1 year old laptop from them, because there was never a
serial number installed on the enclosure anywhere when it was
manufactured, and the BIOS was inaccessible due to it being a internal
PSU failure where the PC wouldn't even power on.

Eventually after harassing them for a long time, being denied service by
their local brick-and-mortar service center who treated me like a
criminal, filing a dispute with my credit card company, etc. I managed
to get someone's attention who didn't completely treat me like a
criminal just for wanting the contractual repair I'm obligated to on
their failed product. so it's finally on its way back and here's part of
what they wrote:

"The system board was replaced along with the base cover. We are not
able to provide a serial number sticker, but my technician wrote the
serial number: (redacted) on the base cover."

Lol they can't even print up a real replacement sticker they used marker
or something.

Also:

"During his diagnosis of your machine, he says it looks like you may
have tried to install Linux or some other non-Windows operating system.
Installing an operating system other than Windows10 (Lenovo Preload) is
not supported."

Yeah, that's why the PSU board fucking failed, Linux made it happen.

be the last machine I buy from this company just avoid these shit heads.

[bitrex]

On 6/5/19 11:35 AM, bitrex wrote:

> "During his diagnosis of your machine, he says it looks like you may
> have tried to install Linux or some other non-Windows operating system.
> Installing an operating system other than Windows10 (Lenovo Preload) is
> not supported."
>
> Yeah, that's why the PSU board fucking failed, Linux made it happen.
>
> be the last machine I buy from this company just avoid these shit heads.

It's too bad ThinkPad used to be a quality product when IBM made them
but it's just bargain basement zombie-brand China junk, now.

[Rheilly Phoull]

HMMM, you buy cheap you get cheap ??

[bitrex]

They're not even that cheap

[bitrex]

On 6/5/19 6:43 PM, Rheilly Phoull wrote:

"bargain basement" was a commentary on the quality not the price,
rather, they're not even that much cheaper as compared to competing
products in the same class from e.g. Asus, IMO a better supplier in most
respects based in Taiwan.

[Rheilly Phoull]

Yup, still most of neg raps come dissatisfied users but not much from
the satisfied ones.

[bitrex]

Mostly a slam at their US-based service. Under IBM I'm sure it was
pretty good for the product. this repair case was sent to their main US
center and they can't even print up a replacement serial # sticker (for
the one that was never affixed at the factory.)

they're using marker. marker!

you're using coconuts! - <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XPnIUtcANg>

[Rheilly Phoull]

Actually I've got a couple of their PC's and they seem well made and
easy to service / modify.

[~misfit~]

You didn't say what model laptop it was. Lenovo, like all of the big laptop manufacturers make a
range of models to a range of price-points. If the unit that failed was one of their cheap retail
consumer models (and the fact it was purchased from a shop rather than directly suggests it was)
it's unfair to then say "avoid these shit heads" based on a single experience concerning a base model.

The lack of serial number suggests that it may be a 'grey market' unit possibly originally
manufactured to be sold in a developing country for peanuts and then imported to wherever you live.
Also that it's only warranted for the original OS points to a low-end unit. The fact that the
internal PSU PCB failed also brings into question what external PSU was used with it, whether it
was an OEM brick or maybe something else.

Lenovo, like Dell and others make some great laptops that are durable and have excellent warranty
coverage but you won't find them in the shelves of your local big-box store. They're usually
available only from the manufacturer directly and cost more than their retail stuff but are well
supported and often give a decade or more of trouble-free use. These are usually supplied with a
choice of OS or even with no OS installed (and still warrantied).

You get what you pay for. That said I buy ex-lease Dell corporate stuff, usually three years old
and usually still with two years warranty and for a lot less money than the punters pay for new
consumer-grade, engineered to fail at the 15-month mark, 12-month warrantied junk.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville

This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.

[Tim R]

On Thursday, June 6, 2019 at 10:00:34 PM UTC-4, ~misfit~ wrote:
>
> You get what you pay for. That said I buy ex-lease Dell corporate stuff, usually three years old
> and usually still with two years warranty and for a lot less money than the punters pay for new
> consumer-grade, engineered to fail at the 15-month mark, 12-month warrantied junk.
> --
> Shaun.

How do you find that? I lucked into a corporate quality Dell some time back and have been looking for another without success. Corporations turn their inventory over and dispose of some high quality machines regularly, but I haven't figured out how to tap into that. Even if they're wiped, no operating system, I run Linux and hard drives are cheap.

[~misfit~]

I found an IT re-marketing company in Auckland who specialise in selling on ex-lease and
ex-corporate equipment. They're wholesale only but I gave them a (semi-) fake business name and
opened a cash-only account with them. I tend to buy a few machines a year as I buy for friends and
they don't seem to mind the low volume. Maybe search for a similar business near you?

With regard to the lack of OS due to wiped / absent HDDs it's not an issue with the recent Dells
I've purchased (Optiplex 9020 minitower desktops and Lattitude E7440 laptops for myself and a
couple of friends) as the hardware is pre-authenticated for Windows 10. I just download the latest
W10 install to USB and when installing it reads the Dell service tag and doesn't ask for a serial
number. You can then get any Dell-specific software you may want directly from their site.

[bitrex]

It was a $1000 ThinkPad laptop purchased off their US website made for
sale in the US and I was using the OEM brick that came with it. failed
in less than 1 year

[bitrex]

Correction, IdeaPad. I suppose that qualifies as a "budget" model
considering you can spend what, $10,000 on a Macbook if you want.

[bitrex]

On 6/6/19 10:00 PM, ~misfit~ wrote:

>> "During his diagnosis of your machine, he says it looks like you may
>> have tried to install Linux or some other non-Windows operating
>> system. Installing an operating system other than Windows10 (Lenovo
>> Preload) is not supported."
>>
>> Yeah, that's why the PSU board fucking failed, Linux made it happen.
>>
>> be the last machine I buy from this company just avoid these shit heads.
>
> You didn't say what model laptop it was. Lenovo, like all of the big
> laptop manufacturers make a range of models to a range of price-points.
> If the unit that failed was one of their cheap retail consumer models
> (and the fact it was purchased from a shop rather than directly suggests
> it was) it's unfair to then say "avoid these shit heads" based on a
> single experience concerning a base model.

purchased from a shop?? no it was purchased from their web site. The
brick-and-mortar place I took it to was their "main service center" for
my area. it was a very fly-by-night looking service center basically a
mom and pop shop with one or two guys who work on all kinds of laptops,
Lenovo included and had a contract with them I suppose.

it was what was listed on their site as their #1 physical service center
for my metro area of 5 million people.

Without a serial number installed on the laptop tho they won't touch it
though and would likely be on the phone to the cops if I'd made a fuss
about that oversight.

[bitrex]

The main problem is that if you get a machine that for whatever reason
didn't have a serial installed on it at the factory, you can call and
call and call but nobody knows how to handle your case.

To get service you need a serial number. "Yes but you didn't install
one." and at that point every rep you talk with is stumped and directs
you to a different department. "Can you escalate my case?" "Sorry, but I
need a serial number to do that." "But I don't have one." "Ok let me
redirect you to..." and you go back to the department you just talked with.

It becomes very Brazil very quickly

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazil_(1985_film)>

[bitrex]

"What's the problem with the machine?"

"Doesn't power on."

"Ah, okay. Can you tell me the serial number on the case so I can start
processing your service request?"

"Doesn't have one."

"Okay, please boot up the machine and get the serial # from the BIOS."

"Just told you it doesn't power on."

"oh...um...okay let me see if I can..."

<redirect to another department>

"What's the problem with the machine?"

"Doesn't power on."

"Ah, okay. Can you tell me the serial number on the case so I can start
processing your service request?"

"Doesn't have one."

"Okay, please boot up the machine and get the serial # from the BIOS."

"Just told you it doesn't power on."

"oh...um...okay let me see if I can..."

[~misfit~]

Wow they've really gone downhill then - that or it was an outlier. Their Thinkpad range is still
well-thought-of, at least as recently as I'm aware of anyway. Perhaps an outlier hardware-wise and
their service are just shite?

[~misfit~]

Ah yeah.... The Ideapad is a Lenovo method of trying to get people to think that the laptop is in
the same class as the Thinkpad and (going by everything I've heard at least) they really aren't.
Another way they try to reel in the punters is to price the Ideapads quite highly.

I'm not sure if they're still operating under the agreement they had with IBM when they bought the
rights to the 'Thinkpad' name... I know that there was a clause that Lenovo had to adhere to
certain standards for all laptops sold under that name but am not sure if there was an expiry date
on the contract.

Louis Rossmann (easily found on youtube) spends his life repairing Macbooks but his personal
laptops are Thinkpads. He upgraded his Thinkpad a while back and did a video about it. The upshot
was there were a few changes on the newer one he didn't like (mainly keyboard etc.) but it was
still better engineered than a Macbook.

Here it is <https://youtu.be/ig3xI8dUdm0> "IS IT SPILL PROOF? Lenovo Thinkpad P50 review +
waterboarding" He even pours water over it, uses it for a while then strips it down to see what if
anything got damaged.

[~misfit~]

The serial number will be on the documentation that arrived with the laptop - maybe even on the
packaging as well. (At least is was when my friend in NYC bought a Thinkpad a while back. It was
even quoted in an email at the time of purchase confirmation.)

Oh yeah, Ideapad. Still it was probably on the docket... Maybe

[~misfit~]

The follwo-up video to that one is shorter and more to the point: <https://youtu.be/tZiSxPvuPLc>
"Lenovo vs. Apple service featuring a liquid damaged Thinkpad". He even peripherally mentions
Ideapads in that one. The first video is like a lot of his, long and rambling. The second, being an
update is around 10 minutes.

[Jon Elson]

bitrex wrote:


>
> It's too bad ThinkPad used to be a quality product when IBM made them
> but it's just bargain basement zombie-brand China junk, now.

Buy a used Dell commercial-grade laptop on eBay for under $100, delivered.
Pick one that has the hard drive removed for security, and then buy a new
SSD in whatever size you need. For about $120 or so, you will have a VERY
good and reliable laptop.

I got a Dell latitude E6510 for my daughter, and she is real happy with it.
This specific model came with 3 different screen resolutions, you can tell
them apart by the service code on the bottom, or if they show the bootup
screen in the listing. The sellers usually don't know the difference, so the
price is usually the same. I got that one for $90 delivered, without hard
drive.

Jon

[Chuck]

On Sun, 09 Jun 2019 11:31:37 -0500, Jon Elson <el...@pico-systems.com>
wrote:

> Dell latitude E6510
Just a heads up if the Dell comes with a Nvidia graphics card. Mine
would blue screen when streaming audio. I discovered that it was the
graphics card driver on the Dell website causing the problem. Two
years after purchase, the Dell driver was still faulty. The driver on
the Nvidia website worked fine.

[Jon Elson]

On a laptop, that would be a chip, not a card. But, yes, there are some
incompatibilities between some graphics chips and certain operating systems.
I have a desktop that has the Intel i810 chip on the motherboard, and
certain Linux OS versions have real trouble with it. The easy fix was to
plug in a graphics card. I think it WAS an Nvidia card that solved the
problem, in this case. But, of course, you can't do that on a laptop.

Jon

[bitrex]

On 6/9/19 1:35 AM, ~misfit~ wrote:

>>> You get what you pay for. That said I buy ex-lease Dell corporate
>>> stuff, usually three years old and usually still with two years
>>> warranty and for a lot less money than the punters pay for new
>>> consumer-grade, engineered to fail at the 15-month mark, 12-month
>>> warrantied junk.
>>
>> It was a $1000 ThinkPad laptop purchased off their US website made for
>> sale in the US and I was using the OEM brick that came with it. failed
>> in less than 1 year
>
> Wow they've really gone downhill then - that or it was an outlier. Their
> Thinkpad range is still well-thought-of, at least as recently as I'm
> aware of anyway. Perhaps an outlier hardware-wise and their service are
> just shite?

What finally go them up and moving was leaving some rude remarks on
their social media stuff. I hate to be that guy but I did try most other
reasonable methods of doing it politely to no avail. they seemed
somewhat curious as to how it left the factory for US sale with no
serial number on it.

Maybe Larry (Ling?) at the shop was having an off day or stuffing some
grey-market units sitting around into the container on the sly to keep
the numbers up...

It's a pretty good laptop spec-wise for the price at least it was at the
time I got it: 17" display (one of the nicer displays I've seen at that
price point), 16 gig RAM, i7 processor, 500GB SSD, discrete GeForce
MX-something GPU.

A design flaw is that they appear to have put the GPU heat sink directly
under the WASD keys so if you want to play a game that does a lot of
fancy graphics it hurts your fingers.

[bitrex]

The last Dell laptop I had used a three-wire PSU that locked you in to
buying only Dell-branded power bricks. There's a lockout chip on the
brick that communicates with the motherboard and if it detects it's not
Dell OEM it prevents the battery from charging at full speed and
throttles the processor. down to 400MHz.

the way it does this is the BIOS flips a bit in the processor register
set called BD_PROCHOT which is a flag from the motherboard temperature
sensor, and fools the processor into thinking the temperature sensor on
the motherboard is saying the system is overheating. It does this if it
doesn't receive the proper readout from the power supply brick.

fortunately it's easy to flip it back by running a program or script on
startup, with root access, and then everything works fine again lol.
this is some hopefully cross-platform C code that does just that:

#include <string.h>
#include <stdio.h>
#include <stdlib.h>
#include <stdint.h>

#define BUFSIZE (64)

int get_msr_value(uint64_t* reg_value) {
const char* cmd = "rdmsr -u 0x1FC";
char cmd_buf[BUFSIZE];

FILE* fp;

if ((fp = popen(cmd, "r")) == NULL) {
printf("Error opening pipe!\n");
return -1;
}

cmd_buf[strcspn(fgets(cmd_buf, BUFSIZE, fp), "\n")] = 0;
*reg_value = atoi(cmd_buf);

if (pclose(fp)) {
printf("Command not found or exited with error status\n");
return -1;
}

return 0;
}

int main(void) {
const char* cmd = "wrmsr -a 0x1FC";
char* concat_cmd;
int ret;
uint64_t* reg_value = &(uint64_t){0};

if ((ret = get_msr_value(reg_value))) {
return ret;
}

printf("Old register value: %lu\n", *reg_value);

*reg_value = *reg_value & 0xFFFFFFFE; // clear bit 0

printf("New register value: %lu\n", *reg_value);

if (asprintf(&concat_cmd, "%s %i", cmd, *reg_value) == -1)
return -1;

printf("Executing: %s\n", concat_cmd);

system(concat_cmd);
free(concat_cmd);

return 0;
}

[bitrex]

Or OS-agnostic, rather, asprintf call may IIRC be gcc/**ix specific though.

[Fox's Mercantile]

On 6/9/19 11:20 PM, Unlisted wrote:
> There is a lot of truth to this. Linux damages the hardware on a lot of
> computers. It also destroys hard and flash drives. I have seen it
> happen. Pen drives are usually the first to be destroyed.

Good Lord, what are you installing Linux on, eMachines?
I've been doing Linux installs for the past 25 years, I've NEVER had
a failure.


--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com

[bitrex]

On 6/10/19 4:15 AM, Fox's Mercantile wrote:
> On 6/9/19 11:20 PM, Unlisted wrote:
>> There is a lot of truth to this. Linux damages the hardware on a lot of
>> computers. It also destroys hard and flash drives. I have seen it
>> happen. Pen drives are usually the first to be destroyed.
>
> Good Lord, what are you installing Linux on, eMachines?
> I've been doing Linux installs for the past 25 years, I've NEVER had
> a failure.
>
>

"Unlisted" is a pro-troll who pro-trolls on many NGs.

I have concluded with high probability that the psychological basis of
it is due to a lack of maternal nurturing during early childhood
resulting in habitual attention-seeking behavior.

[Cursitor Doom]

On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 03:15:20 -0500, Fox's Mercantile wrote:

> Good Lord, what are you installing Linux on, eMachines?
> I've been doing Linux installs for the past 25 years, I've NEVER had a
> failure.

Same here. Never even heard of one!




--
This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via
the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other
protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of
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protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.

[Roger Blake]

On 2019-06-10, Cursitor Doom <cu...@notformail.com> wrote:
> Same here. Never even heard of one!

I think early on there may have been some laptops where fans were
not handled properly, causing things to run too hot. Don't know if
it rose to the level of hardware failure though.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[~misfit~]

On 10/06/2019 4:31 PM, bitrex wrote:
> On 6/9/19 12:31 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
>> bitrex wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> It's too bad ThinkPad used to be a quality product when IBM made them
>>> but it's just bargain basement zombie-brand China junk, now.
>>
>> Buy a used Dell commercial-grade laptop on eBay for under $100, delivered.
>> Pick one that has the hard drive removed for security, and then buy a new
>> SSD in whatever size you need.  For about $120 or so, you will have a VERY
>> good and reliable laptop.
>>
>> I got a Dell latitude E6510 for my daughter, and she is real happy with it.
>> This specific model came with 3 different screen resolutions, you can tell
>> them apart by the service code on the bottom, or if they show the bootup
>> screen in the listing. The sellers usually don't know the difference, so the
>> price is usually the same.  I got that one for $90 delivered, without hard
>> drive.
>>
>> Jon
>>
>
> The last Dell laptop I had used a three-wire PSU that locked you in to buying only Dell-branded

> power bricks..... <snipped>
I've never seen that on Dell's corporate range of laptops, only on the low-end retail things. The
corporate ones usually are capable of docking or using different size PSUs depending on needs so
are left 'flexible'. Also they've been using the same 19V rating and connector now for quite a
while so that customers can use their old PSUs and docking stations. (That said the latest Dell
'docking stations' are in fact wireless so not really docking stations at all.)

[Jon Elson]

On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 00:34:31 -0400, bitrex wrote:


>> The last Dell laptop I had used a three-wire PSU that locked you in to
>> buying only Dell-branded power bricks. There's a lockout chip on the
>> brick that communicates with the motherboard and if it detects it's not
>> Dell OEM it prevents the battery from charging at full speed and
>> throttles the processor. down to 400MHz.

The older ones I have just have a resistor on the center pin that tells
the charger in the laptop whether this is a 60W or 90W power supply.
But, they ALWAYS have to keep making things harder, more complicated, to
lock out competition. Groan...

Jon

[Jon Elson]

On Sun, 09 Jun 2019 23:20:37 -0500, Unlisted wrote:

> On Wed, 5 Jun 2019 11:35:36 -0400, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:
>
>>Also:
>>
>>"During his diagnosis of your machine, he says it looks like you may
>>have tried to install Linux or some other non-Windows operating system.
>>Installing an operating system other than Windows10 (Lenovo Preload) is
>>not supported."
>>
>>Yeah, that's why the PSU board fucking failed, Linux made it happen.
>>
>>

> There is a lot of truth to this. Linux damages the hardware on a lot of
> computers. It also destroys hard and flash drives. I have seen it
> happen. Pen drives are usually the first to be destroyed.

Ummm, I've been running Linux on a variety of machines for over 20 years
now, almost exclusively. If I need a Windows app, I run Windows in a VM
on the Linux system. My last main desktop was a used eBay Dell Optiplex
(commercial) model, and ran 24/7 for 12 years, and is still running at my
mother in law's place (still under Linux). I've had several other Dell
Optiplex machines used as my web server for the last 15 years or so, had
to upgrade them for more performance, not because anything went bad.

There's at least 10 Linux systems at my house, some running 24/7, others
just booted up when needed.

It is possible to have heavily used flash drives (SD cards, USB sticks
and SSD drives) wear out if certain settings are not made to reduce
writing to the drive, mostly the noatime setting. This is very easy to
do, and may be done automatically on newer OS versions.

So, I don't know where you get this info, but it is patently wrong.
Check what OS is used by major data centers, ISP's, etc. You will be
amazed that there is a HUGE amount of this done using Linux.

Jon

[Jon Elson]

On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 00:26:52 +0000, Roger Blake wrote:

> On 2019-06-10, Cursitor Doom <cu...@notformail.com> wrote:
>> Same here. Never even heard of one!
>
> I think early on there may have been some laptops where fans were not
> handled properly, causing things to run too hot. Don't know if it rose
> to the level of hardware failure though.

Yeah, we're talking about 1996, maybe?

Jon

[bruce2...@gmail.com]

Even now. Putting a laptop on the bed on top of the covers for example, versus on top of an airy permeated surface that allows plenty of air circulation. That's why data centers have so much refrigeration, right?

[Fox's Mercantile]

On 7/7/19 10:24 AM, bruce2...@gmail.com wrote:
> Putting a laptop on the bed on top of the covers for example

It's still a problem. A friend got the top of his legs burned by
a laptop.

[~misfit~]

On 8/07/2019 3:52 AM, Fox's Mercantile wrote:
> On 7/7/19 10:24 AM, bruce2...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Putting a laptop on the bed on top of the covers for example
>
> It's still a problem. A friend got the top of his legs burned by
> a laptop.

I keep a piece of 2mm hardboard the same size as my laptop in my laptop bag and always use it under
my laptop if it's not being used on a hard surface. It maintains clearances for air gaps. Common
sense really...

[Percival P. Cassidy]

On 6/5/19 11:37 AM, bitrex wrote:

>> "During his diagnosis of your machine, he says it looks like you may
>> have tried to install Linux or some other non-Windows operating
>> system. Installing an operating system other than Windows10 (Lenovo
>> Preload) is not supported."
>>
>> Yeah, that's why the PSU board fucking failed, Linux made it happen.
>>

>> be the last machine I buy from this company just avoid these shit heads.
>

> It's too bad ThinkPad used to be a quality product when IBM made them
> but it's just bargain basement zombie-brand China junk, now.

I have bought still-in-warranty used Lenovo T-series ThinkPads and found
them excellent in quality and excellent value for money.

Perce