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3 phase motor and VFD questions
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et...@whidbey.com
Dec 29, 2019, 3:14:20 PM12/29/19
to
I scrapped my GE washing machine. Actually, it scrapped itself when
the drum spider broke making repair too expensive to consider. But now
I have what appears to be a nice 3 phase motor. The specs are
ambiguous. The voltage is listed as variable. The frequencey is listed
as variable. The amperage is listed as 2.5 amps. So at least there's
that. It is quite heavy.
Since I removed all the electronics and the wiring harness I am
going to try to get the motor to run on the bench and then measure the
voltages at different speeds.
I have a pretty nice DVM but I don't know how well it will measure
AC voltage at frequencies much above 60 Hz. The meter will measure AC
frequency. But I'm guessing that the output from the washing machine
VFD is probably pretty far from a good sine wave. The VFD is a pretty
simple bare bones unit. Anybody know?
I do have a VFD that takes 120 volt single phase input and outputs
230 volts at up to 400 Hz. I would like to run the motor from it if I
can but what if the voltage is too high? Can the motor be run at too
high voltage for a while without damage? Will too high voltage just
cause overheating? Since the motor is VFD rated the insulation must be
pretty good so I'm thinking too high voltage is probably OK for at
least a few minutes.
If I can suss out what the original GE VFD expects for signals from
the washing machine control and am able to copy them I will do that.
But If I can't then I will want to try another VFD that I know how to
control.
There are at least two reasons I want to re-use this motor. One is
that I hate to throw out good stuff. It pisses me off to waste stuff.
Another reason to re-use the motor is that it is a high quality motor.
The way it was used in the washer to drive the drum required high
quality bearings and general high quality robust construction. The
drive belt tension was extremely high so this put a very high side
load on the front motor bearing and a high side load on the rear
bearing. The motor bearings still feel great and will probably last
forever.
I'm thinking that with the proper reduction the motor would make a
great motor for a small lathe and my son has a 9 inch South Bend that
would be much easier to use if it had infinite speed control.
Thanks,
Eric
the drum spider broke making repair too expensive to consider. But now
I have what appears to be a nice 3 phase motor. The specs are
ambiguous. The voltage is listed as variable. The frequencey is listed
as variable. The amperage is listed as 2.5 amps. So at least there's
that. It is quite heavy.
Since I removed all the electronics and the wiring harness I am
going to try to get the motor to run on the bench and then measure the
voltages at different speeds.
I have a pretty nice DVM but I don't know how well it will measure
AC voltage at frequencies much above 60 Hz. The meter will measure AC
frequency. But I'm guessing that the output from the washing machine
VFD is probably pretty far from a good sine wave. The VFD is a pretty
simple bare bones unit. Anybody know?
I do have a VFD that takes 120 volt single phase input and outputs
230 volts at up to 400 Hz. I would like to run the motor from it if I
can but what if the voltage is too high? Can the motor be run at too
high voltage for a while without damage? Will too high voltage just
cause overheating? Since the motor is VFD rated the insulation must be
pretty good so I'm thinking too high voltage is probably OK for at
least a few minutes.
If I can suss out what the original GE VFD expects for signals from
the washing machine control and am able to copy them I will do that.
But If I can't then I will want to try another VFD that I know how to
control.
There are at least two reasons I want to re-use this motor. One is
that I hate to throw out good stuff. It pisses me off to waste stuff.
Another reason to re-use the motor is that it is a high quality motor.
The way it was used in the washer to drive the drum required high
quality bearings and general high quality robust construction. The
drive belt tension was extremely high so this put a very high side
load on the front motor bearing and a high side load on the rear
bearing. The motor bearings still feel great and will probably last
forever.
I'm thinking that with the proper reduction the motor would make a
great motor for a small lathe and my son has a 9 inch South Bend that
would be much easier to use if it had infinite speed control.
Thanks,
Eric
Michael Terrell
Dec 29, 2019, 4:17:50 PM12/29/19
to
The voltage and frequency aren't ambiguous, since the drive voltage has to change with the frequency.
Fox's Mercantile
Dec 29, 2019, 4:49:46 PM12/29/19
to
On 12/29/19 3:17 PM, Michael Terrell wrote:
> On Sunday, December 29, 2019 at 3:14:20 PM UTC-5, et...@whidbey.com wrote:
>> Since I removed all the electronics and the wiring harness I am
>> going to try to get the motor to run on the bench and then measure the
>> voltages at different speeds. > Did the washer run on 120 or 240? You should have saved the motor control
> On Sunday, December 29, 2019 at 3:14:20 PM UTC-5, et...@whidbey.com wrote:
>> Since I removed all the electronics and the wiring harness I am
>> going to try to get the motor to run on the bench and then measure the
> board and the necessary parts of the harness.
Do you even read what you reply to?
--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com
Michael Terrell
Dec 29, 2019, 5:36:00 PM12/29/19
to
On Sunday, December 29, 2019 at 4:49:46 PM UTC-5, Fox's Mercantile wrote:
> On 12/29/19 3:17 PM, Michael Terrell wrote:
> > On Sunday, December 29, 2019 at 3:14:20 PM UTC-5, et...@whidbey.com wrote:
> >> Since I removed all the electronics and the wiring harness I am
> >> going to try to get the motor to run on the bench and then measure the
> >> voltages at different speeds. > Did the washer run on 120 or 240? You should have saved the motor control
> > board and the necessary parts of the harness.
>
> Do you even read what you reply to?
Do you ever have a day without PMS? He said his VFD. He gave no information on the one that came with the motor, or if it was in good condition. His statement of 'trying to get it working' is rather vague. It may or may not operate like the stand alone VFD.
> On 12/29/19 3:17 PM, Michael Terrell wrote:
> > On Sunday, December 29, 2019 at 3:14:20 PM UTC-5, et...@whidbey.com wrote:
> >> Since I removed all the electronics and the wiring harness I am
> >> going to try to get the motor to run on the bench and then measure the
> >> voltages at different speeds. > Did the washer run on 120 or 240? You should have saved the motor control
> > board and the necessary parts of the harness.
>
> Do you even read what you reply to?
I was hoping to get more information out of him, but all you do is bitch. If he can get it to run from the existing drive, yes he can measure the frequency and voltage. From there, he can determine if his 120V VFD can be programmed for his needs.
VFDs aren't that complicated, but a lot of idiots can mess them up. I had to repair a pipe bender at a local Art Canopy factory. They had just moved, and hired a contractor to wire up their machinery. The idiot wired the 208/240 Volt machine to a single 120V circuit. You could stop the thing with your finger.
I made the idiot install the right breaker, then I added a boost transformer to run it off 240 to 245 volts. It ran twice as fast as it had, on 208V.
Aren't you supposed to be working on your latest plans to catch that #$%Z^7 Road Runner? :)
Fox's Mercantile
Dec 29, 2019, 6:05:51 PM12/29/19
to
On 12/29/19 4:35 PM, Michael Terrell wrote:
> I was hoping to get more information out of him, but all
> you do is bitch.
And all you do, as usual, is act like an asshole, then make
> I was hoping to get more information out of him, but all
> you do is bitch.
the posting about you and how clever you are and how stupid
everyone else is.
Jeff Liebermann
Dec 29, 2019, 8:34:17 PM12/29/19
to
On Sun, 29 Dec 2019 12:14:18 -0800, et...@whidbey.com wrote:
>I scrapped my GE washing machine. (...) But now
number would be helpful here.
>I would like to run the motor from it if I
>can but what if the voltage is too high?
If the voltage is too high, you'll burn up either the VFD, motor, or
both.
>Can the motor be run at too
>high voltage for a while without damage?
No. You'll burn up the motor or burn up the VFD from too much
current.
>Will too high voltage just
>cause overheating?
Yes. You will rapidly begin sweating profusely as the motor begins
performing a rapid self-disassembly.
>I'm thinking that with the proper reduction the motor would make a
>great motor for a small lathe and my son has a 9 inch South Bend that
>would be much easier to use if it had infinite speed control.
Washing machine motors are usually 1/2 or 3/4 horsepower. The South
Bend 9" light duty (10K) lathe will suffice with a 3/4 hp motor. The
9" heavy duty flavor (10L) lathe might need a 1 hp motor. Bigger is
always better:
<http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/viewtopic.php?t=83521>
I'm not sure about the RPM but you should be able to extract it from
the existing motor's nameplate. More:
<https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/south-bend-lathes/what-correct-9a-motor-size-238473/>
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.crafts.metalworking/uHEsa0IHoxI>
etc. Lots more on SB lathe motors, etc found with Google.
You'll probably also need a spindle speed tachometer. Something like
this:
<https://www.ebay.com/itm/332908532113>
--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
>I scrapped my GE washing machine. (...) But now
>I have what appears to be a nice 3 phase motor.
(...)
>I do have a VFD that takes 120 volt single phase input and outputs
>230 volts at up to 400 Hz.
Most VFD's can be jumpered for either 120 or 240VAC. Maker and model
>230 volts at up to 400 Hz.
number would be helpful here.
>I would like to run the motor from it if I
>can but what if the voltage is too high?
both.
>Can the motor be run at too
>high voltage for a while without damage?
current.
>Will too high voltage just
>cause overheating?
performing a rapid self-disassembly.
>I'm thinking that with the proper reduction the motor would make a
>great motor for a small lathe and my son has a 9 inch South Bend that
>would be much easier to use if it had infinite speed control.
Bend 9" light duty (10K) lathe will suffice with a 3/4 hp motor. The
9" heavy duty flavor (10L) lathe might need a 1 hp motor. Bigger is
always better:
<http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/viewtopic.php?t=83521>
I'm not sure about the RPM but you should be able to extract it from
the existing motor's nameplate. More:
<https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/south-bend-lathes/what-correct-9a-motor-size-238473/>
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.crafts.metalworking/uHEsa0IHoxI>
etc. Lots more on SB lathe motors, etc found with Google.
You'll probably also need a spindle speed tachometer. Something like
this:
<https://www.ebay.com/itm/332908532113>
--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
peterw...@gmail.com
Dec 30, 2019, 8:08:36 AM12/30/19
to
3-phase motor on a washing machine? Must be an industrial device, not hardly an over-the-counter consumer device.
With that in mind, you will need a simple 3-phase VFD, as a single device. They may be had with little fuss and at a reasonable cost. Such as:
https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/shopping/catalog/drives_-a-_soft_starters/ac_variable_frequency_drives_(vfd)/micro/drive_units/gs2-21p0?gclid=CjwKCAiA3abwBRBqEiwAKwICA90933xWXOub4tqOEwtiM2NTBIQOIMPluf5Adgkwgq4LVLq26XmkxxoCZ6kQAvD_BwE
Only one of many options.
Do check that the motor is well-and-truly 3-phase, however.
Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
et...@whidbey.com
Dec 30, 2019, 12:12:01 PM12/30/19
to
On Sun, 29 Dec 2019 17:34:08 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:
I'll need to check my VFD to see if it can be jumpered to output
120 volts. I couldn't remember if more voltage would cause more
current. Thanks.
Since my son is doing light duty work with the lathe 1/2 HP should
be fine. And the motor he is using now is 1/2 hp. It's just a standard
single phase induction motor though. The washing machine motor has a
tach so that's covered. If I can get the existing VFD to work out of
the washer.
Cheers,
Eric
wrote:
120 volts. I couldn't remember if more voltage would cause more
current. Thanks.
Since my son is doing light duty work with the lathe 1/2 HP should
be fine. And the motor he is using now is 1/2 hp. It's just a standard
single phase induction motor though. The washing machine motor has a
tach so that's covered. If I can get the existing VFD to work out of
the washer.
Cheers,
Eric
et...@whidbey.com
Dec 30, 2019, 12:15:13 PM12/30/19
to
that I think it only outputs 120 volts. And the motor nameplate says
on it that it is a 3 phase induction motor. The voltage and frequency
are listed as being variable. But Jeff L. suggested that it may be
jumperable so I will need to check the manual. I didn't even think it
may be able to output 120 volts.
Cheers,
Eric
Michael Terrell
Dec 30, 2019, 10:28:38 PM12/30/19
to
peterw...@gmail.com
Dec 31, 2019, 8:16:26 AM12/31/19
to
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