Re: The saga of the wooden San Jose Schools BATHROOM PASS continues

[Danny D.]

Stormin Mormon wrote, on Mon, 27 Oct 2014 03:05:09 -0400:

> Have the teacher example dat ass every time it comes
> back, and if there are any letters missing, apply
> the board of education to the seat of wisdom.

It's funny, but, apparently the teacher didn't want to tell me
that the spray-painted letters didn't last a week at the school.

She thought I would be upset.

I took it as a challenge, to see if I could keep a bunch of
high-school hoodlums at bay. You can't defeat them, but, you can
make it hard for them.

So, with the letters now deeply routered (is that a verb?), and
the knife marks in the back sanded out, and the back painted black
so that the gang graffiti is covered, I think I just made it
a bit harder for them to vandalize it.
https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3950/15018893163_fa337967da_b.jpg

Of course, the teacher told me they unscrewed her desk and hid it
two classes down the hall, so, they're formidable opponents.

But, they are kids, after all, and so, I hope that by the end of the
year, I'll have a system (titanium perhaps?) that they can't deface!

:)

[Stormin Mormon]

Ideally, the kids are supposed to be learning obedience
to law, and some other things like that. If they are
defacing the potty pass, maybe they can hold it till
class is over? Are these illegal non citizens who started
their visit to our country by violating the border laws?

I'm not encouraged when our border agencies permit such
incredible disrespect for law.


http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/10/25/suspect-in-killing-of-two-california-sheriffs-deputies-was-twice-deported-to-mexico/

-
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

[RobertMacy]

On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 05:05:51 -0700, Stormin Mormon <cayo...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>> ..snip....

>
> Ideally, the kids are supposed to be learning obedience
> to law, and some other things like that. If they are
> defacing the potty pass, maybe they can hold it till
> class is over? Are these illegal non citizens who started
> their visit to our country by violating the border laws?
>
> I'm not encouraged when our border agencies permit such
> incredible disrespect for law.
>
>
> http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/10/25/suspect-in-killing-of-two-california-sheriffs-deputies-was-twice-deported-to-mexico/
>
> -
> .
> Christopher A. Young
> Learn about Jesus
> www.lds.org
> .

Historically, [may be urban myth] first generation border crossing people
make better citizens than residents.

More likely, these children are raised without any concept of
accountability. The thought process is that any action that is not
'caught' is allowed, simply by definition. There is no higher concept of
accountability. No love of righteousness. They are actually 'practicing'
the principles they'll use in adulthood by emulating the examples
constantly being shown to them by the 'adults' who should know better.

[Danny D.]

RobertMacy wrote, on Mon, 27 Oct 2014 05:38:54 -0700:

> More likely, these children are raised without any concept of
> accountability.

I think it's a small percentage of the overall class, and, I think,
over time, this dissatisfied percentage falls out of the system,
either as dropouts, or failures.

[Oren]

On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 08:19:38 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
<dannyd...@gmail.com> wrote:

>But, they are kids, after all, and so, I hope that by the end of the
>year, I'll have a system (titanium perhaps?) that they can't deface!

8" Ball and Chain

- Made of Metal with an Iron Chain
- Ball Is about 8" in Diameter
- Chain Is about 26" Long - Shackle Is about 3.5" Wide

<https://tinyurl.com/naeexp4>

But get a "real" one :)
--
Somtimes you just have a bad day at the dungeon

[Oren]

Use this for a pass:

<http://www.centaurforge.com/images/EMERSON50%20100_3471.jpg>

[Danny D.]

Oren wrote, on Mon, 27 Oct 2014 09:23:28 -0700:

> Use this for a pass:
>
> <http://www.centaurforge.com/images/EMERSON50%20100_3471.jpg>

I'll betcha they won't (can't) deface that!

[Oren]

Tell those little heathens, Oren will come to class and teach then how
to make little rocks out of big rocks.

[Danny D.]

Oren wrote, on Mon, 27 Oct 2014 16:40:21 -0700:

> Tell those little heathens, Oren will come to class and teach then how
> to make little rocks out of big rocks.

The teacher told me most of the really bad kids have been suspended
by now.

I guess there's no way to not leave a child behind when they *want*
to be left behind.

I think, in California, they can be emancipated at something like 16,
which is the age these kids are around.

[Oren]

I left school at 16. Quit when I had the earliest chance. It really
wasn't the place for me. I moved out of our home too, went out into
the world and made my bones, retired at age 50 and have no regrets.
IMHO some kids should not be in government mandated skewls, er,
schools.

[Danny D.]

Oren wrote, on Mon, 27 Oct 2014 17:16:36 -0700:

> I left school at 16. Quit when I had the earliest chance. It really
> wasn't the place for me. I moved out of our home too, went out into
> the world and made my bones, retired at age 50 and have no regrets.
> IMHO some kids should not be in government mandated skewls, er,
> schools.

I'm sorry about that Oren. Unless you're happy about it. School isn't
for all kids, especially the kind of kid who likes to do it his own
way, and the ones who don't like sitting down at a desk for 180 days
in a row.

[J Burns]

On 10/27/14, 8:16 PM, Oren wrote:

>
> I left school at 16. Quit when I had the earliest chance. It really
> wasn't the place for me. I moved out of our home too, went out into
> the world and made my bones, retired at age 50 and have no regrets.
> IMHO some kids should not be in government mandated skewls, er,
> schools.
>

My best day at school came when I was 15. It was English class. I tore
open a ream of paper and tossed it out the third-floor window. The wind
scattered the sheets like tickertape, all over the huge lawn. It was
the most beautiful sight I'd ever seen.

The teacher told me to pick it up. I felt like Br'er Rabbit: "Don't
throw me in the briar patch!" It was great! I wished I'd been allowed
to spend all day every day out picking up papers, from the time I was 5.

I had another good day at 17 when I whipped out my toothbrush and
toothpaste and started brushing my teeth in Calculus. The teacher
turned pale and stood over my desk menacing me with karate chops and
karate kicks. Then he took me to The Office.

I thought it was turning into a bad day because if the principal
misunderstood the situation, that could tarnish my reputation. When he
sentenced me to 5 days' detention, I saw he was doing his best not to
bust out laughing, so I knew my sterling reputation was safe. I loved
detention. It was the only class where teachers kept their mouths shut.

That teacher didn't even know Calculus. Every day, I had to sit and
listen to him talk about how he adored Adolf Hitler.

[Michael A. Terrell]

One of mine was walking down the hallway, past open classroom doors
while carrying the front of a wall locker under my arm. The looks were
priceless! The school board's maintenance crew was going to order a new
panel of three doors because of broken spot welds. I told them to let
me take it to the metal shop, to repair it so three kids wouldn't be
without lockers for weeks. I brought it back 15 minutes later, with
some nice burn marks in the ugly brown paint. The other kids gave me
strange looks for months after that. :)


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

[Oren]

I was told I would be drafted and it did happen, I went early by
unsung my draft notice. IOW I enjoyed some time before any chance
that I would killed in a war that was controlled by politicians.

I went back to school when I later became interested :)

[Danny D.]

John Paquay wrote, on Thu, 30 Oct 2014 04:51:58 -0400:

> My knee jerk reaction to the original posting in this thread was not
> "What's wrong with these kids?", but rather, "What's wrong with this
> teacher?"

She's brand new to teaching, but, it turns out that classroom management
is a standard problem in these multi-ethnic San Jose schools.

One teacher uses a bathroom plunger, as his bathroom pass.

> To me, the whole idea of using some (any) ginormous item as a hall pass
> is stupid, demeaning, and completely counterproductive... not to
> mention, an exercise in futility. What does this really accomplish?

What it (attempts to) accomplish is the reduce undue interruptions of
the classroom environment.

We all know that the kids can go to the bathroom plenty of other times,
but, all kids will take advantage of a "free pass" out of jail, if
even for only 10 minutes (which they can synchronize with other friends,
if they're clever).

What the pass does, first and foremost, is it discourages such intents.
Also, it allows the teacher to continue teaching, uninterrupted, as
the students just get up, grab the pass, and return, unannounced.

It also is very clear to everyone, what the purpose of the kid is,
whether grabbing the pass or walking the hallways. It's also not
something they can leave hidden in the hallway while they surreptitiously
run a'muck about the hallways or outdoors to catch a smoke or whatever.

Likewise, it prevents multiple kids (from the same classroom anyway)
leaving the room at any one time.

Furthermore, it's obvious to all whether the bathroom pass is in use or
not. It's like the red sign on an airplane bathroom door showing it's in
use, rather than what we have to do at a McDonalds, which is to jiggle
the doorknob repeatedly to find out if someone is in there.

And, being so large (on purpose), the kids, who almost certainly don't
like it, can't lose it easily.

At the very least, it's objectionable to carry (as you noted), which
would further discourage the unnecessary potty breaks.

Rest assured, this teacher has at least one kid a day out of her 200,
walk out on the class without excuse. She has kids banging on the table,
and calling her a b*ch, and plenty of disciplinary problems, all of which
are common through all the classes, as she told me most of these kids are
being weeded out of the system through their behavior in *all* their
classes.

I also find this behavior strange, as *my* kids have always had comments
on their report cards of "very polite", "always helpful", "pitches in to
volunteer every time I ask", and even once "raises hand to answer
questions too often!".

Heh heh ... the apple doesn't fall far from the tree ...

> The good old days were certainly different, but they weren't necessarily
> always that good. Still, if this is how our educators are now treating
> our kids, what should we expect from the kids?

I think this teacher, who is brand new, is learning on the job. In
California, they go through 3 semesters of graduate training, to obtain a
preliminary teaching certificate, two semesters of which have on-the-job
training of sorts.

Then, they're thrown to the wolves for 2 more years, until they get their
preliminary teaching certificate cleared. At that point, they also get
tenure (which is kind'a soon, if you ask me), and then they're bona-fide
teachers.

The clearance process, apparently, starts with three weeks of training on
"classroom management", which I found odd when I saw that it's the
*first* thing they re-train the preliminary-credentialed teachers on.

> I'm afraid she needs a kind of help that can't be found in a wood shop.
> Clearly she is in the wrong profession, and a big chunk of wood is not
> going to change that. Foolishness, yes. But it makes me a little sad for
> the kids.

Out of 200 kids that she has, she estimated, to me, that about 10% are
the ones using the bathroom pass constantly. The rest sit and listen.

You have to remember these are Algebra classes, where probably only a
small percentage of the kids (maybe 1/3?) actually care to learn it. It's
a required class for the rest, which they hope to never see again during
the rest of their lives.

When is the last time you or I graphed a quadratic equation, for example?
Could each of us solve a binomial equation to save our lives?
(Building suspension bridges in the redwoods notwithstanding... :)
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7532/15647694115_c6aaeda78c_c.jpg

[Mike Marlow]

Danny D. wrote:
> John Paquay wrote, on Thu, 30 Oct 2014 04:51:58 -0400:
>
>> My knee jerk reaction to the original posting in this thread was not
>> "What's wrong with these kids?", but rather, "What's wrong with this
>> teacher?"
>
> She's brand new to teaching, but, it turns out that classroom
> management is a standard problem in these multi-ethnic San Jose
> schools.
>

Well - that's a big part of your problem. Rather than teaching kids things,
parents and teachers rally around excuses for what the things exist. I wish
you the best - deal with the problems you are creating.

> One teacher uses a bathroom plunger, as his bathroom pass.

Brilliant! Shear stupidity - so why shouldn't everyone else follow suit?

>
>> To me, the whole idea of using some (any) ginormous item as a hall
>> pass is stupid, demeaning, and completely counterproductive... not to
>> mention, an exercise in futility. What does this really accomplish?
>
> What it (attempts to) accomplish is the reduce undue interruptions of
> the classroom environment.
>

Brain dead thinking. But that's fine - do that kind of thinking where you
live. What in the hell do you really think you are solving with this kind
of approach?

> We all know that the kids can go to the bathroom plenty of other
> times, but, all kids will take advantage of a "free pass" out of
> jail, if
> even for only 10 minutes (which they can synchronize with other
> friends, if they're clever).

You just keep on letting those kids outsmart you. I'm sure you'll win that
way...

>
> What the pass does, first and foremost, is it discourages such
> intents.

Bullshit! Are you and the teachers at that school that stupid as to really
believe this? If so - muck in your own mire.

> Also, it allows the teacher to continue teaching,
> uninterrupted, as
> the students just get up, grab the pass, and return, unannounced.

Really? Do you even think about the things like this that you post?

>
> It also is very clear to everyone, what the purpose of the kid is,
> whether grabbing the pass or walking the hallways. It's also not
> something they can leave hidden in the hallway while they
> surreptitiously run a'muck about the hallways or outdoors to catch a
> smoke or whatever.

Dear Parent...

>
> Likewise, it prevents multiple kids (from the same classroom anyway)
> leaving the room at any one time.

Really? The high paid teacher is this dumb as to not be aware of this
syndrome? Really?

>
> Furthermore, it's obvious to all whether the bathroom pass is in use
> or not. It's like the red sign on an airplane bathroom door showing
> it's in use, rather than what we have to do at a McDonalds, which is
> to jiggle the doorknob repeatedly to find out if someone is in there.

Yeah - when I was a kid I had a really hard time understanding a locked
door - are you really this stupid? How about facilities that accomodate 4
kids at once - where does that fit into your foolish thinking?

>
> And, being so large (on purpose), the kids, who almost certainly don't
> like it, can't lose it easily.

Oh man - that just can't be anymore stupid.

>
> At the very least, it's objectionable to carry (as you noted), which
> would further discourage the unnecessary potty breaks.

Really? What in the hell is the problem you are looking to solve? I think
you have a California mindset which just does not think at all.

>
> Rest assured, this teacher has at least one kid a day out of her 200,
> walk out on the class without excuse.

Really? Then fire the teacher. That is her or his responsibility to make
sure that kind of thing does not happen. Screw the 200 number - that's a
classic over-exageration - how many students in any one class session? The
total number is completely meaningless.

> She has kids banging on the
> table, and calling her a b*ch, and plenty of disciplinary problems,
> all of which are common through all the classes, as she told me most
> of these kids are being weeded out of the system through their
> behavior in *all* their classes.

Guess you guys need to improve your school disciplines and forget looking at
magic tokens like stupid wood fobs for a key to the boys room. Do you
really belive that is going to fix the problems you guys have created in
your schools? Really? Are you really that dumb?

>
> I also find this behavior strange, as *my* kids have always had
> comments on their report cards of "very polite", "always helpful",
> "pitches in to volunteer every time I ask", and even once "raises
> hand to answer questions too often!".

Good for you! That's what is necessary - not stupid fobs.

>
> I think this teacher, who is brand new, is learning on the job. In
> California, they go through 3 semesters of graduate training, to
> obtain a preliminary teaching certificate, two semesters of which
> have on-the-job training of sorts.
>

Kudos to you for trying to help a new teacher but don't you see that the
problem is so much bigger than that?

> Then, they're thrown to the wolves for 2 more years, until they get
> their preliminary teaching certificate cleared. At that point, they
> also get tenure (which is kind'a soon, if you ask me), and then
> they're bona-fide teachers.

Well - you might want to take the problem up with your school district. You
guys created the problem and stupid ideas like wooden fobs is not going to
fix that problem.

>
> The clearance process, apparently, starts with three weeks of
> training on "classroom management", which I found odd when I saw that
> it's the *first* thing they re-train the preliminary-credentialed
> teachers on.

Oh well...

>
> You have to remember these are Algebra classes, where probably only a
> small percentage of the kids (maybe 1/3?) actually care to learn it.
> It's a required class for the rest, which they hope to never see
> again during the rest of their lives.

We have to remember? Really? Are you that stupid? They are in school.
They are there to learn what they are told to be taught. We have to
remember? I see the very root of this problem...

>
> When is the last time you or I graphed a quadratic equation, for
> example? Could each of us solve a binomial equation to save our lives?
> (Building suspension bridges in the redwoods notwithstanding... :)

Competely irrelevent! We did do it when we were in school. What does it
matter at all when the last time was that we did it. I'll tell you that I
have used that knowledge throughout my life - though it may not have been on
a daily basis - but when I needed it, I could call on it. You are making
excuses for dumbing down our already stupid kids even more?

--

-Mike-
mmarlo...@windstream.net

[Stormin Mormon]

On 10/30/2014 12:20 PM, Danny D. wrote:

> She has kids banging on the table,
> and calling her a b*ch, and plenty of disciplinary problems, all of which
> are common through all the classes, as she told me most of these kids are
> being weeded out of the system through their behavior in *all* their
> classes.
>

I've suspected since the beginning that the
bathroom pass is just a bandaid on a larger
problem. This supports my guess.

--

[Michael A. Terrell]

"Danny D." wrote:
>
> John Paquay wrote, on Thu, 30 Oct 2014 04:51:58 -0400:
>
> > My knee jerk reaction to the original posting in this thread was not
> > "What's wrong with these kids?", but rather, "What's wrong with this
> > teacher?"
>
> She's brand new to teaching, but, it turns out that classroom management
> is a standard problem in these multi-ethnic San Jose schools.
>
> One teacher uses a bathroom plunger, as his bathroom pass.
>
> > To me, the whole idea of using some (any) ginormous item as a hall pass
> > is stupid, demeaning, and completely counterproductive... not to
> > mention, an exercise in futility. What does this really accomplish?
>
> What it (attempts to) accomplish is the reduce undue interruptions of
> the classroom environment.
>
> We all know that the kids can go to the bathroom plenty of other times,
> but, all kids will take advantage of a "free pass" out of jail, if
> even for only 10 minutes (which they can synchronize with other friends,
> if they're clever).

The local high school has a single person restroom in each classroom.
Problem, solved.

[Michael A. Terrell]

Stormin Mormon wrote:
>
> On 10/30/2014 12:20 PM, Danny D. wrote:
>
> > She has kids banging on the table,
> > and calling her a b*ch, and plenty of disciplinary problems, all of which
> > are common through all the classes, as she told me most of these kids are
> > being weeded out of the system through their behavior in *all* their
> > classes.
> >
>
> I've suspected since the beginning that the
> bathroom pass is just a bandaid on a larger
> problem. This supports my guess.

Parents dumping defective kids on the school system.

[k...@attt.bizz]

When I was a kid, the only classrooms with bathrooms were kindergarten
classrooms. I guess it does make sense that they all would now.

[Michael A. Terrell]

It's a lot less disruption to the class. I saw them during the last
hurricane, when the building was used as a shelter for the disabled and
senior citizens.

[Mike Marlow]

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

>
> The local high school has a single person restroom in each classroom.
> Problem, solved.

How are ya supposed to grab a quick cigarette without getting caught that
way?

--

-Mike-
mmarlo...@windstream.net

[Stormin Mormon]

On 10/30/2014 10:25 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

>
> Stormin Mormon wrote:
>> I've suspected since the beginning that the
>> bathroom pass is just a bandaid on a larger
>> problem. This supports my guess.
>
>
> Parents dumping defective kids on the school system.

CA is noted for the liberal left leaning culture.
Very possible the entire school system is run on
self esteem, and fragile feelings, instead of old
fashioned tried and true.

[J Burns]

On 10/31/14, 6:14 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>
>>
>> The local high school has a single person restroom in each classroom.
>> Problem, solved.
>
> How are ya supposed to grab a quick cigarette without getting caught that
> way?
>

Just holler to the teacher to turn on the ventilator because you just
stunk up the bathroom.

[J Burns]

On 10/30/14, 10:49 PM, k...@attt.bizz wrote:
> When I was a kid, the only classrooms with bathrooms were kindergarten
> classrooms. I guess it does make sense that they all would now.

When I was a kid, schools didn't have bathrooms. At home, my mother
made us bathe every week.

[Danny D.]

Stormin Mormon wrote, on Fri, 31 Oct 2014 08:52:10 -0400:

> CA is noted for the liberal left leaning culture.
> Very possible the entire school system is run on self esteem, and
> fragile feelings, instead of old fashioned tried and true.

Does anyone here have high school kids?
Would you ask *them* what they use for a bathroom pass?
I'd be interested in the results.

[k...@attt.bizz]

On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 01:25:48 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"

Less interruption? How so? When we were in high school (long before)
there were no "bathroom passes". Classes were 50 minutes with 10
minutes between. Young adults were expected to be potty trained.

[k...@attt.bizz]

On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 16:19:25 -0400, J Burns <bur...@nowhere.com>
wrote:

OK, Abe. ;-)

[k...@attt.bizz]

On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 06:14:15 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
<mmarlo...@windstream.net> wrote:

>Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>
>>
>> The local high school has a single person restroom in each classroom.
>> Problem, solved.
>
>How are ya supposed to grab a quick cigarette without getting caught that
>way?

Wait for the class to get over, then skip the next.

[Michael A. Terrell]

k...@attt.bizz wrote:
>
> Michael A. Terrell wrote:
> >

> > It's a lot less disruption to the class. I saw them during the

> > lasthurricane, when the building was used as a shelter for the

> > disabled and senior citizens.
>
> Less interruption? How so? When we were in high school (long before)
> there were no "bathroom passes". Classes were 50 minutes with 10
> minutes between. Young adults were expected to be potty trained.

By letting them get up and use it quickly without interrupting the
class to ask for the pass and the time it took to return it. Some people
have medical problems, and the need arises without much warning.


We had five minutes between classes. Then the principal retired. His
replacement cut it to three minutes between classes and turned off the
bells even though the clock system needed a lot of work. It turned into
a real mess when hundreds of kids were sent to the principal's office
for being tardy for each class. The teachers used whatever their watch
said, and no two were the same.

[k...@attt.bizz]

On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 19:34:10 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
<mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:

>
>k...@attt.bizz wrote:
>>
>> Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>> >
>> > It's a lot less disruption to the class. I saw them during the
>> > lasthurricane, when the building was used as a shelter for the
>> > disabled and senior citizens.
>>
>> Less interruption? How so? When we were in high school (long before)
>> there were no "bathroom passes". Classes were 50 minutes with 10
>> minutes between. Young adults were expected to be potty trained.
>
> By letting them get up and use it quickly without interrupting the
>class to ask for the pass and the time it took to return it. Some people
>have medical problems, and the need arises without much warning.

*Exceedingly* few high school students have such problems. There are
ways to deal with those few. IOW, a red herring.

> We had five minutes between classes. Then the principal retired. His
>replacement cut it to three minutes between classes and turned off the
>bells even though the clock system needed a lot of work. It turned into
>a real mess when hundreds of kids were sent to the principal's office
>for being tardy for each class. The teachers used whatever their watch
>said, and no two were the same.

Your principal and the entire faculty, in fact, were morons. Maybe
they were just ahead of their time. It also must have been a very
small high school.

[Michael A. Terrell]

1400

[J Burns]

Now I remember. Starting around 7th grade, my schools did have
bathrooms. No tubs, just communal showers. It was compulsory to bathe
together twice a week.

[J Burns]

On 10/31/14, 7:34 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
> We had five minutes between classes. Then the principal retired. His
> replacement cut it to three minutes between classes and turned off the
> bells even though the clock system needed a lot of work. It turned into
> a real mess when hundreds of kids were sent to the principal's office
> for being tardy for each class. The teachers used whatever their watch
> said, and no two were the same.

Our school had a Western Union clock system governed by a grandfather
clock in the office. Occasionally we'd see classroom clocks jump because
the principal was adjusting the grandfather clock.

I believed in punctuality, being neither late nor early. I'd generally
reach my desk 10 seconds before the bell. All we had at home was a 3"
electric clock on the stove. That couldn't be read precisely, so I
relied on my internal clock.

Sometimes on a Monday morning I'd be 10 seconds late instead of 10
seconds early. I couldn't reset my internal clock on the principal's
whim, so I'd be 10 seconds late every day. By Friday, teachers would be
complaining about my continuing presence in detention. The principal
would fix his clock and Monday the school would be back in sync with me.

He could have saved detention teachers a lot of unpleasantness if he'd
checked with me or the Naval Observatory before tampering with the
grandfather clock.

[Danny D.]

krw wrote, on Fri, 31 Oct 2014 19:00:31 -0400:

> Less interruption? How so? When we were in high school (long before)
> there were no "bathroom passes". Classes were 50 minutes with 10
> minutes between. Young adults were expected to be potty trained.

San Jose high school classes are an hour and 45 minutes long, which is
double your class periods. On Mondays, they're very short. About an hour.

[Stormin Mormon]

On 11/1/2014 8:15 AM, Danny D. wrote:
>
> San Jose high school classes are an
> hour and 45 minutes long, which is
> double your class periods. On Mondays,
> they're very short. About an hour.
>

That sounds like a lot too long to keep
students at a desk. Half hour to 45 mins
would make more sense. Need to get up and
walk around. I don't think this sounds
practical.

[k...@attt.bizz]

On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 20:38:05 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"

That's about the same size as our HS. I can't believe any principal
would be so stupid as to believe classrooms could be emptied, people
jam halls, all mixing on their way to the next class, and file into
the next class in 3 minutes, particularly when the clocks don't work
(ours almost always did - Simplex and IBM, same clocks). Add to that
the "need" for bathroom passes, and he must have been someone current
administrations could look up to.

[k...@attt.bizz]

On Sat, 01 Nov 2014 08:59:41 -0400, Stormin Mormon
<cayo...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On 11/1/2014 8:15 AM, Danny D. wrote:
>>
>> San Jose high school classes are an
> > hour and 45 minutes long, which is
>> double your class periods. On Mondays,
> > they're very short. About an hour.
>>
>
>That sounds like a lot too long to keep
>students at a desk. Half hour to 45 mins
>would make more sense. Need to get up and
>walk around. I don't think this sounds
>practical.

+1

An hour is about all one can expect for an attention span. My son had
classes that went two hours but they were really a combination of two
(English and history, or some the like). They were combined classes
with about twice the size, with two teachers. They had plenty of
breaks and changes of topics during the classes.

Add in the current ADD "epidemic" and it can't work.

[k...@attt.bizz]

On Sat, 01 Nov 2014 03:12:25 -0400, J Burns <bur...@nowhere.com>

wrote:

>On 10/31/14, 7:01 PM, k...@attt.bizz wrote:
>> On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 16:19:25 -0400, J Burns <bur...@nowhere.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/30/14, 10:49 PM, k...@attt.bizz wrote:
>>>> When I was a kid, the only classrooms with bathrooms were kindergarten
>>>> classrooms. I guess it does make sense that they all would now.
>>>
>>> When I was a kid, schools didn't have bathrooms. At home, my mother
>>> made us bathe every week.
>>
>> OK, Abe. ;-)
>>
>Now I remember. Starting around 7th grade, my schools did have
>bathrooms. No tubs, just communal showers. It was compulsory to bathe
>together twice a week.

Hmm, perhaps you're not Abe. Et tu Brute? ;-)

[Michael A. Terrell]

k...@attt.bizz wrote:
>
> Michael A. Terrell wrote:
> >
> >k...@attt.bizz wrote:
> >>
> >> Your principal and the entire faculty, in fact, were morons. Maybe
> >> they were just ahead of their time. It also must have been a very
> >> small high school.
> >
> >1400
>
> That's about the same size as our HS. I can't believe any principal
> would be so stupid as to believe classrooms could be emptied, people
> jam halls, all mixing on their way to the next class, and file into
> the next class in 3 minutes, particularly when the clocks don't work
> (ours almost always did - Simplex and IBM, same clocks). Add to that
> the "need" for bathroom passes, and he must have been someone current
> administrations could look up to.

He was a liberal loon. You couldn't get from one end of the campus to
the other in three minutes, with the crowded hallways. I averaged 4:15
from science class, to electronics, then 4:00 back to the new wing for
the next class.


This was an IBM clock system, but parts of it were over 50 years old.
The oldest part of the school was built in the 1800s.

[Michael A. Terrell]

That situation didn't last. Everyone was pissed off about it, and I'm
sure that the school board heard from a lot of parents over it.

[Danny D.]

Stormin Mormon wrote, on Sat, 01 Nov 2014 08:59:41 -0400:

> That sounds like a lot too long to keep students at a desk. Half hour to
> 45 mins would make more sense. Need to get up and walk around. I don't
> think this sounds practical.

As a matter of fact, the teacher (who is brand new to teaching) asked me
for advice on how to keep the kids *engaged* for the entire hour and
forty five minutes.

She, knowing I'm good at googling, asked me to find some math games, and
I also gave her a big bag of extra Halloween chocolate I had bought,
which she is going to use to "reward" the kids when she catches them
being good.

She also knows my strong feeling that math isn't taught correctly, which
is a very long story, but the short of it is that math needs to be taught
from the practical problem standpoint.

For example, I suggested she think from the perspective of two kids
throwing rocks into a lake. What happens, mathematically. Or two kids
trying to kick a soccer ball into a net, while clearing the height of the
other kids. Things like that might keep the kids engaged, if, I
suggested, she *start* a problem that the kids might be interested in,
and then, working backwards, she bring in the math, and, in the end, the
equation and graphs (and, ug, proofs).

I told her to think of all the math that applies to that problem (or any
problem involving two kids trying to figure something out that two kids
would want to figure out), and to teach that way. She told me that is
a *lot* of work, and I did not disagree.

So, that might take years.

In the meantime, there are always the math games we found, which might
help to exercise the kids' bodies, every 30 minutes, for a five-minute
game.

[Danny D.]

Ed Pawlowski wrote, on Sat, 01 Nov 2014 15:40:17 -0400:

> Perfect opportunity for a pervert teacher, coach, or principle to get
> his jollies.

When I wrestled, in high school, the coach taught us how to cheat on the
initial doctor's appointment (by not eating for days beforehand), so that
we could then lose even more weight than we were supposed to, and the
coach provided a list of the "bath houses" where we could go to in order
to take a 'sauna' with a full set of rubber clothes that the coach
supplied.

So, we'd exercise in this bath-house sauna, little knowing (heck, we were
only freshmen and sophomores in high school), that the bathhouses are
*filled* to the brim with gay old men.

When they started asking me to take off my sweatshirt and rubberized
gear, as I exercised in the sauna, another guy, I remember it clearly,
told the first guy to shut the heck up and leave me alone. I was
befuddled why these guys wanted me to take off my gear, as the whole
point was to sweat to lose weight (whether for the doctor's assessment or
for the match itself).

I only learned later what those encounters were all about.
Jeezus. And they say the sports environment today is all about cheating.
That was cheating, and, now that I had kids, I NEVER let them believe in
a coach like that (mine, an ex marine, told me "I'm your mother, your
father, and Jesus Christ ... and ... somehow ... I trusted him).

Kids are stupid. I was a kid. I was stupid.

[Danny D.]

J Burns wrote, on Sat, 01 Nov 2014 18:11:42 -0400:

> We didn't take our gym clothes home to wash, not even socks

I almost never had to go to gym, because I was on sports year round.
So, I missed that experience.

However, if you've ever *smelled* the varsity locker room, you'll know
the meaning of "gym socks" all too well!

[John Grossbohlin]

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message news:1P45w.55721$uw3....@fx10.iad...

>That sounds like a lot too long to keep
>students at a desk. Half hour to 45 mins
>would make more sense. Need to get up and
>walk around. I don't think this sounds
>practical.

Along those lines...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2014/10/24/teacher-spends-two-days-as-a-student-and-is-shocked-at-what-she-learned/?wpisrc=pdwmk

Saw this article in other publications too...

[J Burns]

I guess we had three minutes, with synchronized clocks. Nobody stayed
after class to ask the teacher a question because there wasn't time. I
didn't use my locker for books because there wasn't time between classes.

Gym was the dangerous class. The teacher's wristwatch wasn't wired to
the school clocks, so we might be dismissed a little late. It took time
to open our locker, undress, close our locker, grab a towel, shower,
dry, open our locker, dress, close our locker, throw our towel in the
bin, walk to the classroom building, and climb a couple of flights of
stairs.

The yearbook hyped our monitors, maintaining law and order. Being a
monitor was an excuse to arrive late and leave early, but I didn't see
their purpose. Nobody had time to misbehave between classes. I wondered
if they got the idea for the armbands from the Hitler Youth.

[J Burns]

You would have been safe at our school. Strict policy against knives in
the shower. Most blades were carbon steel, which could rust.

[Danny D.]

John Grossbohlin wrote, on Sat, 01 Nov 2014 19:19:24 -0400:


> http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2014/10/24/
> teacher-spends-two-days-as-a-student-and-is-shocked-at-what-
> she-learned/?wpisrc=pdwmk

Here's a quick four-sentence takeaway ...
1. Those classes were short, at only 1 hour and 15 minutes.
2. Students don't move about, once in class.
3. It's mostly lecture.
4. The kids are constantly chastised.

[Stormin Mormon]

On 11/1/2014 8:36 PM, J Burns wrote:
>>> Now I remember. Starting around 7th grade, my schools did have
>>> bathrooms. No tubs, just communal showers. It was compulsory to bathe
>>> together twice a week.
>>
>> Hmm, perhaps you're not Abe. Et tu Brute? ;-)
>>
> You would have been safe at our school. Strict policy against knives in
> the shower. Most blades were carbon steel, which could rust.

When showers are outlawed, only perverts
will have showers.

[Danny D.]

Bill wrote, on Sat, 01 Nov 2014 18:19:12 -0400:

> Even an hour is a long time for students to listen to a lecture. One
> secret to making it work is to include some group activity such as a
> worksheet, so that the students are not just (not) listening to a
> lecture.

I did help her create some worksheets, as she was unfamiliar with
manipulating Microsoft Office to make graphs.

I ended up making tables, and it took a while to figure out how to make
the boxes the same with and length, and then how to add the x and y axis,
as I couldn't get the tables to "group" with the drawn axis even myself.

In the end, I gave up on Microsoft Word simply because I couldn't get the
non-groupable items to move together, as a single unit, when text was
changed.

So, I opted for PowerPoint, instead of Word, and made a few templates for
her for her worksheets. She put the kids in groups, and they moved the
chairs together (forcing them to stand up) and they worked together.

That gives the kids "some" exercise.

[J Burns]

Yeah! What was I supposed to do in a 50-minute lecture when my
attention span was under a minute? The fact that lectures were endless
repetition showed that teachers knew we were unable to pay attention.
They were putting us in a position where we had to sit still and pretend
to pay attention all day long.

Each teacher would proudly tell us how many hours we were expected to
spend on daily homework for that class. Add it up, and if you did
nothing but attend classes and do your homework, there might be time for
4 hours' sleep at night.

It sure seemed abusive to me, but this article says teachers really are
that stupid.

[jurb...@gmail.com]

>"Our school had a Western Union clock system governed by a grandfather
>clock in the office. Occasionally we'd see classroom clocks jump because
>the principal was adjusting the grandfather clock. "

We'd LUUUUV to sae clocks jump !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo

[Stormin Mormon]

That's seriously incredible. What a major
learning moment. And to think, schools over
the whole great nation do that to kids every
school day? Time for the peasants to start
a number two pencil revolt. You have nothing
to lose but your desks in rows!

[josephkk]

On Thu, 30 Oct 2014 17:17:07 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
<mmarlo...@windstream.net> wrote:

>Danny D. wrote:
>> John Paquay wrote, on Thu, 30 Oct 2014 04:51:58 -0400:
>>
>>> My knee jerk reaction to the original posting in this thread was not
>>> "What's wrong with these kids?", but rather, "What's wrong with this
>>> teacher?"
>>
>> She's brand new to teaching, but, it turns out that classroom
>> management is a standard problem in these multi-ethnic San Jose
>> schools.
>>
>
>Well - that's a big part of your problem. Rather than teaching kids things,
>parents and teachers rally around excuses for what the things exist. I wish
>you the best - deal with the problems you are creating.
>
>
>> One teacher uses a bathroom plunger, as his bathroom pass.
>
>Brilliant! Shear stupidity - so why shouldn't everyone else follow suit?

Mikw Marlow:
If you are so wise let's hear your solutions to each case where you
kvetched. There are several, let's hear what you would have the
teacher/school do.

?-/

>
>>
>>> To me, the whole idea of using some (any) ginormous item as a hall
>>> pass is stupid, demeaning, and completely counterproductive... not to
>>> mention, an exercise in futility. What does this really accomplish?
>>
>> What it (attempts to) accomplish is the reduce undue interruptions of
>> the classroom environment.
>>
>
>Brain dead thinking. But that's fine - do that kind of thinking where you
>live. What in the hell do you really think you are solving with this kind
>of approach?
>
>
>> We all know that the kids can go to the bathroom plenty of other
>> times, but, all kids will take advantage of a "free pass" out of
>> jail, if
>> even for only 10 minutes (which they can synchronize with other
>> friends, if they're clever).
>
>You just keep on letting those kids outsmart you. I'm sure you'll win that
>way...
>
>
>>
>> What the pass does, first and foremost, is it discourages such
>> intents.
>
>Bullshit! Are you and the teachers at that school that stupid as to really
>believe this? If so - muck in your own mire.
>
>> Also, it allows the teacher to continue teaching,
>> uninterrupted, as
>> the students just get up, grab the pass, and return, unannounced.
>
>Really? Do you even think about the things like this that you post?
>
>
>>
>> It also is very clear to everyone, what the purpose of the kid is,
>> whether grabbing the pass or walking the hallways. It's also not
>> something they can leave hidden in the hallway while they
>> surreptitiously run a'muck about the hallways or outdoors to catch a
>> smoke or whatever.
>
>Dear Parent...
>
>
>>
>> Likewise, it prevents multiple kids (from the same classroom anyway)
>> leaving the room at any one time.
>
>Really? The high paid teacher is this dumb as to not be aware of this
>syndrome? Really?
>
>
>>
>> Furthermore, it's obvious to all whether the bathroom pass is in use
>> or not. It's like the red sign on an airplane bathroom door showing
>> it's in use, rather than what we have to do at a McDonalds, which is
>> to jiggle the doorknob repeatedly to find out if someone is in there.
>
>Yeah - when I was a kid I had a really hard time understanding a locked
>door - are you really this stupid? How about facilities that accomodate 4
>kids at once - where does that fit into your foolish thinking?
>
>>
>> And, being so large (on purpose), the kids, who almost certainly don't
>> like it, can't lose it easily.
>
>Oh man - that just can't be anymore stupid.
>
>>
>> At the very least, it's objectionable to carry (as you noted), which
>> would further discourage the unnecessary potty breaks.
>
>Really? What in the hell is the problem you are looking to solve? I think
>you have a California mindset which just does not think at all.
>
>
>>
>> Rest assured, this teacher has at least one kid a day out of her 200,
>> walk out on the class without excuse.
>
>Really? Then fire the teacher. That is her or his responsibility to make
>sure that kind of thing does not happen. Screw the 200 number - that's a
>classic over-exageration - how many students in any one class session? The
>total number is completely meaningless.
>
>
>> She has kids banging on the
>> table, and calling her a b*ch, and plenty of disciplinary problems,
>> all of which are common through all the classes, as she told me most
>> of these kids are being weeded out of the system through their
>> behavior in *all* their classes.
>
>Guess you guys need to improve your school disciplines and forget looking at
>magic tokens like stupid wood fobs for a key to the boys room. Do you
>really belive that is going to fix the problems you guys have created in
>your schools? Really? Are you really that dumb?
>
>>
>> I also find this behavior strange, as *my* kids have always had
>> comments on their report cards of "very polite", "always helpful",
>> "pitches in to volunteer every time I ask", and even once "raises
>> hand to answer questions too often!".
>
>Good for you! That's what is necessary - not stupid fobs.
>
>
>>
>> I think this teacher, who is brand new, is learning on the job. In
>> California, they go through 3 semesters of graduate training, to
>> obtain a preliminary teaching certificate, two semesters of which
>> have on-the-job training of sorts.
>>
>
>Kudos to you for trying to help a new teacher but don't you see that the
>problem is so much bigger than that?
>
>> Then, they're thrown to the wolves for 2 more years, until they get
>> their preliminary teaching certificate cleared. At that point, they
>> also get tenure (which is kind'a soon, if you ask me), and then
>> they're bona-fide teachers.
>
>Well - you might want to take the problem up with your school district. You
>guys created the problem and stupid ideas like wooden fobs is not going to
>fix that problem.
>
>
>>
>> The clearance process, apparently, starts with three weeks of
>> training on "classroom management", which I found odd when I saw that
>> it's the *first* thing they re-train the preliminary-credentialed
>> teachers on.
>
>Oh well...
>
>>
>> You have to remember these are Algebra classes, where probably only a
>> small percentage of the kids (maybe 1/3?) actually care to learn it.
>> It's a required class for the rest, which they hope to never see
>> again during the rest of their lives.
>
>We have to remember? Really? Are you that stupid? They are in school.
>They are there to learn what they are told to be taught. We have to
>remember? I see the very root of this problem...
>
>>
>> When is the last time you or I graphed a quadratic equation, for
>> example? Could each of us solve a binomial equation to save our lives?
>> (Building suspension bridges in the redwoods notwithstanding... :)
>
>Competely irrelevent! We did do it when we were in school. What does it
>matter at all when the last time was that we did it. I'll tell you that I
>have used that knowledge throughout my life - though it may not have been on
>a daily basis - but when I needed it, I could call on it. You are making
>excuses for dumbing down our already stupid kids even more?

[josephkk]

On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 08:52:10 -0400, Stormin Mormon <cayo...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>On 10/30/2014 10:25 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>>
>> Stormin Mormon wrote:
>>> I've suspected since the beginning that the
>>> bathroom pass is just a bandaid on a larger
>>> problem. This supports my guess.
>>
>>
>> Parents dumping defective kids on the school system.
>
>CA is noted for the liberal left leaning culture.
>Very possible the entire school system is run on
>self esteem, and fragile feelings, instead of old
>fashioned tried and true.
>
>-

It largely is/was since the 1970s. I saw it, i was there. About mid 2001
decade the parental rebellion about no schools for performance started to
get results. So far only tokenism such as charter schools. Real reform
won't happen until the teachers unions are broken. Which requires a
society of responsibility for your actions. Not something to hold your
breath for.

?-)

[Mike Marlow]

josephkk wrote:

>
> Mikw Marlow:
> If you are so wise let's hear your solutions to each case where you
> kvetched. There are several, let's hear what you would have the
> teacher/school do.
>

No need. If one cannot come up with anything more appropriate than a
bathroom plunger for a hall pass, then the same person would not understand
any higher level of thinking. Just let them go on with their foolishness.

BTW - learn how to trim a post instead of re-posting a ton of lines with
your own comment inserted within the first few lines.

--

-Mike-
mmarlo...@windstream.net

[josephkk]

I post to suit me.

?-)