APC UPS -- replace battery, or...?

[Percival P. Cassidy]

I have an APC Back-UPS ES 750 to which I have plugged in my PVR (a not
particularly high-powered computer, and with only one HD). It is not
indicating that the battery is dead and needs replacing, but whenever
the power goes off, even for just a second or two, the UPS indicates
that it is overloaded (no indicator lights, and continuous sound).

Is it worth replacing the battery just in case, or is this thing ready
for the recyclers?

Perce

[Don Bruder]

In article <edtfo7...@mid.individual.net>,

Whether it's "worth it" or not would depend on how much you're willing
to spend on the battery. Whether or not that will cure things, <shrug>
no way for me to say. The battery is the most likely thing to be
failing, but without a whole lot more information than you're likely
going to be able to give online, there's no way to be certain that's
truly the problem.

If you can get your hands on a battery cheap, it's worth trying. If
not...

--
Brought to you by the letter K and the number .357
Security provided by Horace S. & Dan W.

[whit3rd]

On Friday, January 13, 2017 at 6:12:27 PM UTC-8, Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
> I have an APC Back-UPS ES 750 to which I have plugged in my PVR (a not
> particularly high-powered computer, and with only one HD). It is not
> indicating that the battery is dead and needs replacing, but whenever
> the power goes off, even for just a second or two, the UPS indicates
> that it is overloaded (no indicator lights, and continuous sound).
>
> Is it worth replacing the battery just in case

Those batteries have a ten-year life. If it is ten years or more old,
and you need a UPS, just buy an APS replacement battery. They
recycle the old one for you...

[Phil Allison]

whit3rd wrote:

>
> > Is it worth replacing the battery just in case
>
> Those batteries have a ten-year life. If it is ten years or more old,
> and you need a UPS, just buy an APS replacement battery. They
> recycle the old one for you...
>
>

** It's just a regular SLA battery ( aka gell cell) - right ?

IME you are lucky to get more than 2 years out of one, specially when abused with massive, high current, short term discharges as here.

If not charged regularly, the things self destruct in about 1 to 2 years from NEW through internal corrosion.

As another poster has said, i'ts odds on the battery/s are stuffed.



.... Phil

[Baron]

Percival P. Cassidy prodded the keyboard with:

Use your car battery for a test !

--
Best Regards:
Baron.

[Andrew Rossmann]

In article <edtfo7...@mid.individual.net>, Nob...@NotMyISP.net
says...

I have several of these in various versions. The battery is a standard
12V, 9Ah battery. The latest 'real' APC battery is a Kung Long WP9-
125HR. I have also seen a CSB brand HR1234WF2.

Basically, it's a roughly 5.94x2.56x3.72 battery with .250 (1/4 inch)
terminals. Be aware that Amazon or others may link some of those part
numbers to other 'similar' batteries. Major names are CSB, PowerSonic.

Mouser Electronics has a genuine CSB for about $27.44.

--
If there is a no_junk in my address, please REMOVE it before replying!
All junk mail senders will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the
law!!
http://home.comcast.net/~andyross

[Phil Hobbs]

Ditch the Back-UPS and get a Smart-UPS off eBay--they're much easier on
batteries. I collect the rebadged ones (IBM 750T) and stick Powersonic
batteries in them. I have four running at the moment.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

[Percival P. Cassidy]

Yes, regular SLA battery. CSB branded on the end, with an APC label on
the front.

As I stated in my original message, there is no indication that the
battery needs replacing -- BUT now that I look at the thing closely,
there is no sign of the "Replace Battery" indicator that, according to
the user guide, is supposed to flash when the battery needs replacing:
it simply does not exist. I don't remember when or where I bought this
UPS; could it be a dumbed-down-for-sale-in-discount-stores variant --
but still with the same model number?

Perce

[Percival P. Cassidy]

It works with a different (but not new) battery.

Perce

[Benderthe.evilrobot]

"Percival P. Cassidy" <Nob...@NotMyISP.net> wrote in message
news:edtfo7...@mid.individual.net...

A UPS I bought had an energy saving feature that prevented it operating if
the load was under a specified value.

The last battery problem I had involved a battery that seemed to be OK, but
the UPS played dead.

All tests suggested the battery was good - but it was sluggish turning over
a motorcycle starter.

[Benderthe.evilrobot]

"Phil Allison" <palli...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1ba55766-10e4-4252...@googlegroups.com...

> whit3rd wrote:
>
>>
>> > Is it worth replacing the battery just in case
>>
>> Those batteries have a ten-year life. If it is ten years or more old,
>> and you need a UPS, just buy an APS replacement battery. They
>> recycle the old one for you...
>>
>>
>
> ** It's just a regular SLA battery ( aka gell cell) - right ?
>
> IME you are lucky to get more than 2 years out of one, specially when
> abused with massive, high current, short term discharges as here.

High current will take a toll - but the batteries last longer if you have
frequent outages.

If its only ever float charged; the distilled water eventually gasses away -
the more concentrated H2SO4 left behind sulphates the plates.

[pf...@aol.com]

NOT if your car has a 'brain'. Removing the battery will remove much of the 'learning' it does, wipe the radio code (do you remember where that is?), wipe out any sync, and, perhaps, wipe some of the operational updates (there are always some) that have been done on the car since it was first programmed at the factory.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

[Baron]

pf...@aol.com prodded the keyboard with:

He doesn't have to remove the battery, just use jumper leads to test
the UPS.

--
Best Regards:
Baron.

[pf...@aol.com]

Really?

We have established that the UPS is not working. What if the "not working" has nothing to do with the battery? Now you are connecting one system - defects unknown - to another system not (yet) defective, directly.

Smart move!

[Benderthe.evilrobot]

"Baron" <ba...@linuxmaniac.net> wrote in message
news:o5fu6a$e0u$1...@dont-email.me...

If cell internal resistance can be an issue, the resistance of jumper leads
probably can be too.

[Phil Hobbs]

It would have to be a pretty small car battery for a 750 VA UPS to do
any harm to the car.

[pf...@aol.com]

On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 10:22:11 AM UTC-5, Phil Hobbs wrote:

>
> It would have to be a pretty small car battery for a 750 VA UPS to do
> any harm to the car.

I am thinking more of some level of dead-short or similar.

[mike]

Have you tried the power interrupt with a very light load, like
a 4W night light? That might give you a clue whether the system
will run with a new battery.

Use a voltmeter to measure the voltage on the UPS battery when
unloaded. Turn on the system, do the power interruption and see what
the battery voltage does. Try it with a very light load.

If you're paranoid, put a 20 amp fuse between the car battery and
ups battery.

Another option is to hook a car headlight or some other heavy load
directly to the UPS battery to see if it is good.

Been my experience that a new UPS on sale is about the same cost
as a quality replacement battery for your old one.

I don't have anything mission critical. If my UPS runs the system
for 10 seconds, it's done its job. Any power outage longer than that
will likely be out for way longer than the run time of any battery
system I'm willing to devote to the system.

[Benderthe.evilrobot]

"mike" <ham...@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:o5jiq4$7oj$1...@dont-email.me...

> On 1/16/2017 9:01 AM, pf...@aol.com wrote:
>> On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 10:22:11 AM UTC-5, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> It would have to be a pretty small car battery for a 750 VA UPS to do
>>> any harm to the car.
>>
>> I am thinking more of some level of dead-short or similar.
>>
>> Peter Wieck
>> Melrose Park, PA
>>
> Have you tried the power interrupt with a very light load, like
> a 4W night light? That might give you a clue whether the system
> will run with a new battery.
>
> Use a voltmeter to measure the voltage on the UPS battery when
> unloaded. Turn on the system, do the power interruption and see what
> the battery voltage does. Try it with a very light load.
>
> If you're paranoid, put a 20 amp fuse between the car battery and
> ups battery.
>
> Another option is to hook a car headlight or some other heavy load
> directly to the UPS battery to see if it is good.

I've seen some pretty clapped out batteries light a H4 headlamp bulb with no
problem - its not a reliable test.

A UPS battery should turn over a typical motorcycle starter without any sign
of being sluggish.

Some UPS units play dead if there's high internal cell resistance.

Another point many overlook - Ah capacity falls as current draw rises.

[Ancel UnfetteredOne]

I usually slap on a used auto battery with cable extension to get a couple hours backup on my PC.

[Percival P. Cassidy]

On 01/22/2017 11:00 AM, Ancel UnfetteredOne wrote:

>> I have an APC Back-UPS ES 750 to which I have plugged in my PVR (a not
>> particularly high-powered computer, and with only one HD). It is not
>> indicating that the battery is dead and needs replacing, but whenever
>> the power goes off, even for just a second or two, the UPS indicates
>> that it is overloaded (no indicator lights, and continuous sound).
>>
>> Is it worth replacing the battery just in case, or is this thing ready
>> for the recyclers?

> I usually slap on a used auto battery with cable extension to get a couple hours backup on my PC.

A few years back I read that one should not do this with consumer-grade
UPSes because they have no cooling and are designed so that during the
short time the standard battery lasts they will not reach an unsafe
temperature.

Anyway, I replaced the battery by a used one from another UPS, and all
seems to be fine.

Perce

[Benderthe.evilrobot]

"Percival P. Cassidy" <Nob...@NotMyISP.net> wrote in message

news:eekik2...@mid.individual.net...

> On 01/22/2017 11:00 AM, Ancel UnfetteredOne wrote:
>
>>> I have an APC Back-UPS ES 750 to which I have plugged in my PVR (a not
>>> particularly high-powered computer, and with only one HD). It is not
>>> indicating that the battery is dead and needs replacing, but whenever
>>> the power goes off, even for just a second or two, the UPS indicates
>>> that it is overloaded (no indicator lights, and continuous sound).
>>>
>>> Is it worth replacing the battery just in case, or is this thing ready
>>> for the recyclers?
>
>> I usually slap on a used auto battery with cable extension to get a
>> couple hours backup on my PC.
>
> A few years back I read that one should not do this with consumer-grade
> UPSes because they have no cooling and are designed so that during the
> short time the standard battery lasts they will not reach an unsafe
> temperature.

All I've seen so far had "snapper disk" thermal cutouts. Don't know the
correct name, but usually a small bakelite cylinder with a swaged on
aluminium cap and 2x 1/4" spade terminals and are usually mounted by a loose
flange with 2 screw holes. The active bit is a bi-metal disk that is bowed,
it snaps to bowed the other way when it gets hot.

You'll always find one on the magnetron/fan duct housing in a microwave
oven, they can turn up in pretty much anything that could overheat.