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replacing 12v halogens with LEDs?
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Amanda Ripanykhazov
Jul 13, 2016, 8:49:16 AM7/13/16
to
I have been having severe problems with 12v halogen "spot"lights.
My Satco strip seems to blow its individual internal mini-transformers behind the bulb about every other time the bulb blows. I also have an Ikea fitting supporting three 12v halogen bulbs on which the bulbs dont blow as often but the whole supporting transformer seems to blow every few years.
Much perceived wisdom online seems to date back a few years to the dawn of LED bulbs, when specs (heat? heat dissipation? colour temperature? lumens? current used? etc) were all over the place and I am wondering whether these have settled down yet so that I can just replace the halogens with LED bulbs using similar (or internally adjusted) current? Or does that still entail only buying the most expensive, - eg Philips, - bulbs?
Or if the current or heat draw which causes the el-cheapo transformer in the track lighting units and the Ikea unit to blow is substantially less for LED bulbs, can I render those transformers MORE reliable by putting LEDs in and adding (say) one or two bulbs to the Ikea unit to compensate for the lower current draw?
My Satco strip seems to blow its individual internal mini-transformers behind the bulb about every other time the bulb blows. I also have an Ikea fitting supporting three 12v halogen bulbs on which the bulbs dont blow as often but the whole supporting transformer seems to blow every few years.
Much perceived wisdom online seems to date back a few years to the dawn of LED bulbs, when specs (heat? heat dissipation? colour temperature? lumens? current used? etc) were all over the place and I am wondering whether these have settled down yet so that I can just replace the halogens with LED bulbs using similar (or internally adjusted) current? Or does that still entail only buying the most expensive, - eg Philips, - bulbs?
Or if the current or heat draw which causes the el-cheapo transformer in the track lighting units and the Ikea unit to blow is substantially less for LED bulbs, can I render those transformers MORE reliable by putting LEDs in and adding (say) one or two bulbs to the Ikea unit to compensate for the lower current draw?
N_Cook
Jul 13, 2016, 9:49:34 AM7/13/16
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As the lamps push forward little heat , its quite easy to tone down the
blue by overcoating the glass front with thin red,pink,or orange "filter".
Have a go initially with red felt tip pen and then when you get the
right sort of pink/orange chromacity for the room, go to a specialist
artist supply shop/stationers with a good range of acetate/polyester? A4
overlay/cover sheet material and cut out discs and fit over the LED
clusters.
Because of the small dimensions of halogen bulbs compared to hot wire,
much higher probability of plasma arc creation at the point of fauilure
of a bulb, ie near enough full short circuit at the point of blowing, so
collateral damage
Amanda Ripanykhazov
Jul 13, 2016, 11:09:30 AM7/13/16
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> Because of the small dimensions of halogen bulbs compared to hot wire,
> much higher probability of plasma arc creation at the point of fauilure
> of a bulb, ie near enough full short circuit at the point of blowing, so
> collateral damage
Yes, I figured that there was some heat related reason why the halogens were blowing so often and taking the transformers with them and i keep a stock of them in reserve. But can I render those transformers MORE reliable by putting LEDs in and adding (say) one or two bulbs to the (open bulb type) Ikea unit IF I NEED to compensate for the lower current draw? Or is that such an oversimplification that it renders the premise wrong?
> much higher probability of plasma arc creation at the point of fauilure
> of a bulb, ie near enough full short circuit at the point of blowing, so
> collateral damage
John Robertson
Jul 13, 2016, 12:40:58 PM7/13/16
to
supplies have reached their planed EOL and the capacitors are failing
taking all the other magic smoke emitting parts with them...
John :-#)#
--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
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whit3rd
Jul 13, 2016, 2:06:59 PM7/13/16
to
On Wednesday, July 13, 2016 at 8:09:30 AM UTC-7, Amanda Ripanykhazov wrote:
> Yes, I figured that there was some heat related reason why the halogens were blowing so often and taking the transformers with them and i keep a stock of them in reserve. But can I render those transformers MORE reliable by putting LEDs in ...
Mostly, LED replacements will take less current and won't tolerate high temperatures.
That's a problem, because taking less current means the transformer will hum, and halogen
fixtures are designed to keep the lamps hot (for the self-healing filament chemistry to work).
For best results, replace a halogen fixture with an LED fixture. Bulb 'replacement' is really
a kind of redesign, and not optimal from a lighting engineering standpoint.
> Yes, I figured that there was some heat related reason why the halogens were blowing so often and taking the transformers with them and i keep a stock of them in reserve. But can I render those transformers MORE reliable by putting LEDs in ...
Mostly, LED replacements will take less current and won't tolerate high temperatures.
That's a problem, because taking less current means the transformer will hum, and halogen
fixtures are designed to keep the lamps hot (for the self-healing filament chemistry to work).
For best results, replace a halogen fixture with an LED fixture. Bulb 'replacement' is really
a kind of redesign, and not optimal from a lighting engineering standpoint.
Baron
Jul 13, 2016, 2:49:10 PM7/13/16
to
>> On 13/07/2016 13:49, Amanda Ripanykhazov wrote:
>>> I have been having severe problems with 12v halogen "spot"lights.
>>>
>>> My Satco strip seems to blow its individual internal
>>> mini-transformers behind the bulb about every other time the bulb
>>> blows. I also have an Ikea fitting supporting three 12v halogen
>>> bulbs on which the bulbs dont blow as often but the whole
>>> supporting transformer seems to blow every few years.
I replaced all the 50W halogen bulbs in my kitchen and bathroom with
>>> I have been having severe problems with 12v halogen "spot"lights.
>>>
>>> My Satco strip seems to blow its individual internal
>>> mini-transformers behind the bulb about every other time the bulb
>>> blows. I also have an Ikea fitting supporting three 12v halogen
>>> bulbs on which the bulbs dont blow as often but the whole
>>> supporting transformer seems to blow every few years.
240V GU10 LED bulbs. Rip the transformers out and replace the bulb
holder. I bought my LED lamps from "Pound Stretcher" at £2.45p each,
and the holders came in packs of ten, about £4.00p three years on and
I've yet to replace one. A lot less hassle then having to get the
steps out three or four times a year...
--
Best Regards:
Baron.
Jon Elson
Jul 13, 2016, 3:45:34 PM7/13/16
to
The Halogen lamps run off constant-voltage AC. the LEDs (internally) run off
constant-current DC. The "bulbs" would need to have a rectifier/regulator
built into them. You certainly can get these for 120 V Edison-base sockets,
not so sure about track lighting systems.
Jon
Amanda Riphnykhazova
Jul 13, 2016, 6:10:11 PM7/13/16
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Thanks guys: The LED vendors (in China) all tout their MR16s as being direct replacements for the MR16 12v halogens
jeanyves
Jul 14, 2016, 3:49:31 PM7/14/16
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On 2016-07-13 22:10:02 +0000, Amanda Riphnykhazova said:
> Thanks guys: The LED vendors (in China) all tout their MR16s as being
> direct replacements for the MR16 12v halogens
be aware that the light beam can be very different from a 12v halogen bulb ...
> Thanks guys: The LED vendors (in China) all tout their MR16s as being
> direct replacements for the MR16 12v halogens
prefer led lamps that are made of smd leds, they have a wider light beam
the lamps that have 3x 1W led have a very directive beam and will
really not shine like your halogen lights.
I also had halogen lights long ago, and replaced with led some years ago.
when I inspect the wires for changing the lights, I noticed that the
original wires where cooked by the heat of the pravious lights... 12v
and 20w or even 50w make the wires really be cooked.
I replaced the wires, and used then GU10 led lamps, and now the current
flowing into the wires is lower than before.
--
Jean-Yves.
Amanda Riphnykhazova
Jul 14, 2016, 6:23:35 PM7/14/16
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Thanks for that
This was the sort of reason I wanted to change over the bulbs to LED. It should stress the wires and transformers less.
I know the chinese are mass producing m/billions of these mini-circuits for use in the bulbs. I just dont know what they do yet (or which no-name bulbs utilise which circuits): Do they make the bulbs more receptive to DC or rectify the current in some way to compensate for the lower draw?
But it is becoming exceptionally annoying changing these bulbs/transformers all the time. I currently have seven transformers in the strip and 3 are burned ouT! I suppose I would do anything at this point to change them!
This was the sort of reason I wanted to change over the bulbs to LED. It should stress the wires and transformers less.
I know the chinese are mass producing m/billions of these mini-circuits for use in the bulbs. I just dont know what they do yet (or which no-name bulbs utilise which circuits): Do they make the bulbs more receptive to DC or rectify the current in some way to compensate for the lower draw?
But it is becoming exceptionally annoying changing these bulbs/transformers all the time. I currently have seven transformers in the strip and 3 are burned ouT! I suppose I would do anything at this point to change them!
Baron
Jul 15, 2016, 2:23:23 AM7/15/16
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Amanda Riphnykhazova prodded the keyboard with:
Those transformers are actually high frequency inverters, about 200Khz
output or there abouts. They actually feed the halogen bulb with the
HF AC. You might find that the 12V MR16 LED doesn't like being fed
from them.
I made the decision to just remove them and feed the replacement LED's
straight from the 50Hz 240V mains. Changing the bulb holders wasn't
a downside because of the heat damage to the wires, though the actual
connector to the transformer was fine. So it was just a matter of
loosening the terminals and transferring the wires from the mains to
the new terminal block, the GU10 bulb holder was already wired into
the other side.
All the new bulbs have 12 SM LED's and are cold white and because the
kitchen and bathroom has a white colour scheme seem much brighter
than the old halogen bulbs. So much so that we now tend to turn on
only half of the 12 lights in the kitchen. The bathroom uses all
six.
--
Best Regards:
Baron.
output or there abouts. They actually feed the halogen bulb with the
HF AC. You might find that the 12V MR16 LED doesn't like being fed
from them.
I made the decision to just remove them and feed the replacement LED's
straight from the 50Hz 240V mains. Changing the bulb holders wasn't
a downside because of the heat damage to the wires, though the actual
connector to the transformer was fine. So it was just a matter of
loosening the terminals and transferring the wires from the mains to
the new terminal block, the GU10 bulb holder was already wired into
the other side.
All the new bulbs have 12 SM LED's and are cold white and because the
kitchen and bathroom has a white colour scheme seem much brighter
than the old halogen bulbs. So much so that we now tend to turn on
only half of the 12 lights in the kitchen. The bathroom uses all
six.
--
Best Regards:
Baron.
jeanyves
Jul 15, 2016, 3:36:15 AM7/15/16
to
I replaced all my ceiling bulbs 5-6 years ago, still none has died for now.
and if one dies, it's easy to find the same and replace it
the only thing will be to struggle with the color of the light to find
something similar to the others
may be I will have to replace a whole room at a time !
--
Jean-Yves.
Amanda Riphnykhazova
Jul 15, 2016, 2:40:23 PM7/15/16
to
Baron
Jul 15, 2016, 3:45:26 PM7/15/16
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Amanda Riphnykhazova prodded the keyboard with:
Probably a con ! Look at the carriage charge.
--
Best Regards:
Baron.
Amanda Riphnykhazova
Jul 17, 2016, 10:53:18 AM7/17/16
to
> Probably a con ! Look at the carriage charge.
> --
> Best Regards:
> Baron.
Amanda Riphnykhazova
Jul 30, 2016, 10:10:57 AM7/30/16
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Just to close out this thread (for the moment)
As to the Ikea question, Ikea says that any bulb with the proper socket will work.
Secondly, I bought a half dozen bulbs on ebay from China, - the ones described as CREE that claim to have a chipset in them, - and they all seem to work fine.
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