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Help with floundering son
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amdx
Dec 31, 2014, 7:15:20 PM12/31/14
to
Hi all,
The Sig Gen for guitar amps started me thinking.
My son is floundering, after two years at a university he has decided
that's not what he wants. I guess I could say I knew that
from the start, mom didn't. I would have liked to see him finish
and then flounder with job prospects, but he didn't.
He keeps saying he has an interest in music, he plays guitar, talks
about mixing but has no equipment except a computer.
I've got about $25,000 into his education so far and don't mind
spending some more to get him on a track.
What are some job categories in music, music recording, studio
recording. I don't know! What should he be learning?
I know this is very open ended, because he doesn't know what he wants.
Just venting and looking for ideas, he will do what he wants when he
finds it, but I figure my job is to put things in his path until he
trips on something.
As I told him when he went to college, explore everything on campus
until you find what tweaks you! I think he played video games instead.
Any Ideas?
Thanks, Dad
The Sig Gen for guitar amps started me thinking.
My son is floundering, after two years at a university he has decided
that's not what he wants. I guess I could say I knew that
from the start, mom didn't. I would have liked to see him finish
and then flounder with job prospects, but he didn't.
He keeps saying he has an interest in music, he plays guitar, talks
about mixing but has no equipment except a computer.
I've got about $25,000 into his education so far and don't mind
spending some more to get him on a track.
What are some job categories in music, music recording, studio
recording. I don't know! What should he be learning?
I know this is very open ended, because he doesn't know what he wants.
Just venting and looking for ideas, he will do what he wants when he
finds it, but I figure my job is to put things in his path until he
trips on something.
As I told him when he went to college, explore everything on campus
until you find what tweaks you! I think he played video games instead.
Any Ideas?
Thanks, Dad
Tom Miller
Dec 31, 2014, 7:35:10 PM12/31/14
to
"amdx" <noj...@knology.net> wrote in message
news:m823ht$628$2...@dont-email.me...
Jeff Liebermann
Dec 31, 2014, 8:17:23 PM12/31/14
to
On Wed, 31 Dec 2014 18:15:15 -0600, amdx <noj...@knology.net> wrote:
>I would have liked to see him finish
>and then flounder with job prospects, but he didn't.
> He keeps saying he has an interest in music, he plays guitar, talks
>about mixing but has no equipment except a computer.
I had a similar problem with a former ladyfriend's son. He was
>I would have liked to see him finish
>and then flounder with job prospects, but he didn't.
> He keeps saying he has an interest in music, he plays guitar, talks
>about mixing but has no equipment except a computer.
studying to be an architect, but preferred to play guitar with his
friends. At one point, he announced that he was dropping out of
college to become a professional musician. His mother panicked and
volunteered me to talk to him on the assumption that my sledge hammer
style of diplomacy and tactless pragmatism might have some effect.
I expected a long dragged out battle, but instead found the right
pitch line on the first try. It told him that I knew plenty of
architects that play guitar on the side, but no guitarists that dabble
in architectural design on the side. I didn't even have to threaten
him with being grounded, disinherited and thrown out of the house. He
eventually finished college, apprenticed with the strangest
architectural firm in the area, got married (twice), and is now
gainfully employed. He occasionally plays the guitar.
> I've got about $25,000 into his education so far and don't mind
>spending some more to get him on a track.
anyway. Which would you rather pay, tuition or bail money? The real
problem is that if quits now, even temporarily, the odds are very much
against him ever going back to college.
> What are some job categories in music, music recording, studio
>recording. I don't know! What should he be learning?
becoming an engineer. However, in the late 1960's, the decision was
easy. I could go to college, study something that qualifies for a
student deferment, or I could play soldier in Viet Nam. The decision
was a no-brainer. In retrospect, I was a fairly lousy composer and
worse musician, but that wasn't obvious to me at the time.
He should be studying anything EXCEPT music. I've watched several
kids grow up to be musicians of various sorts. It was study music
100% of their time. Only the very best make money doing music, which
incidentally requires a well placed mentor. If he fails to make the
grade for entrance into one of the top conservatories, he's going
nowhere.
>I know this is very open ended, because he doesn't know what he wants.
>Just venting and looking for ideas, he will do what he wants when he
>finds it, but I figure my job is to put things in his path until he
>trips on something.
employment, such as those found on the TV series "Dirty Jobs". I
suspect that he'll find something less disgusting rather quickly.
Otherwise, just throw him out of the house and let him discover the
value of holding a job.
> As I told him when he went to college, explore everything on campus
>until you find what tweaks you! I think he played video games instead.
for a reality check. College is not real. My illusions of what an
engineer did on the job were very different from what I "learned" in
college. (Details on request). Unless he's worked his way through
college with relevent jobs in the "real world", he's not going to find
anything in college.
>Any Ideas?
Just one. Don't let him quit college. Use a carrot, stick, bribe, or
threats, whatever it takes to keep him in skool. However, if he
quits, keep the money and teach him Spanish so he can get a job at
McDonald's.
Sheesh... talk about off topic.
--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Phil Allison
Jan 1, 2015, 5:52:46 AM1/1/15
to
amdx wrote:
> The Sig Gen for guitar amps started me thinking.
** Wot an unintended consequence .....
> The Sig Gen for guitar amps started me thinking.
> My son is floundering, after two years at a university he has decided
> that's not what he wants. I guess I could say I knew that
> from the start, mom didn't. I would have liked to see him finish
> and then flounder with job prospects, but he didn't.
> He keeps saying he has an interest in music, he plays guitar, talks
> about mixing but has no equipment except a computer.
> I've got about $25,000 into his education so far and don't mind
> spending some more to get him on a track.
> What are some job categories in music, music recording, studio
> recording. I don't know! What should he be learning?
> I know this is very open ended, because he doesn't know what he wants.
> Just venting and looking for ideas, he will do what he wants when he
> finds it, but I figure my job is to put things in his path until he
> trips on something.
> As I told him when he went to college, explore everything on campus
> until you find what tweaks you! I think he played video games instead.
>
> Any Ideas?
Then he could make his living out of "floundering" ....
... Phil
larrymo...@my-deja.com
Jan 1, 2015, 6:34:06 AM1/1/15
to
On Wednesday, December 31, 2014 6:17:23 PM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Wed, 31 Dec 2014 18:15:15 -0600, amdx <noj...@knology.net> wrote:
>
> I had a similar problem with a former ladyfriend's son. He was
> studying to be an architect, but preferred to play guitar with his
> friends. At one point, he announced that he was dropping out of
> college to become a professional musician. His mother panicked and
> volunteered me to talk to him on the assumption that my sledge hammer
> style of diplomacy and tactless pragmatism might have some effect.
>
> I expected a long dragged out battle, but instead found the right
> pitch line on the first try. It told him that I knew plenty of
> architects that play guitar on the side, but no guitarists that dabble
> in architectural design on the side.
What would you have told him if his major had been art history?
> On Wed, 31 Dec 2014 18:15:15 -0600, amdx <noj...@knology.net> wrote:
>
> I had a similar problem with a former ladyfriend's son. He was
> studying to be an architect, but preferred to play guitar with his
> friends. At one point, he announced that he was dropping out of
> college to become a professional musician. His mother panicked and
> volunteered me to talk to him on the assumption that my sledge hammer
> style of diplomacy and tactless pragmatism might have some effect.
>
> I expected a long dragged out battle, but instead found the right
> pitch line on the first try. It told him that I knew plenty of
> architects that play guitar on the side, but no guitarists that dabble
> in architectural design on the side.
RobertMacy
Jan 1, 2015, 9:47:43 AM1/1/15
to
On Wed, 31 Dec 2014 18:17:18 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:
>> ...snip....
friends were doing clubs to hone their art of comedy. His friends ALL kept
their day jobs, but Jay quit his. With NO way back, he becme a bit
successful, where as all his friends, having a 'lifeline' never went very
far in comedy. [as related by Jay Leno]
wrote:
>> ...snip....
> I expected a long dragged out battle, but instead found the right
> pitch line on the first try. It told him that I knew plenty of
> architects that play guitar on the side, but no guitarists that dabble
> in architectural design on the side. I didn't even have to threaten
> him with being grounded, disinherited and thrown out of the house. He
> eventually finished college, apprenticed with the strangest
> architectural firm in the area, got married (twice), and is now
> gainfully employed. He occasionally plays the guitar.
>
So,...he never countered with the story about Jay Leno? Jay and his
> pitch line on the first try. It told him that I knew plenty of
> architects that play guitar on the side, but no guitarists that dabble
> in architectural design on the side. I didn't even have to threaten
> him with being grounded, disinherited and thrown out of the house. He
> eventually finished college, apprenticed with the strangest
> architectural firm in the area, got married (twice), and is now
> gainfully employed. He occasionally plays the guitar.
>
friends were doing clubs to hone their art of comedy. His friends ALL kept
their day jobs, but Jay quit his. With NO way back, he becme a bit
successful, where as all his friends, having a 'lifeline' never went very
far in comedy. [as related by Jay Leno]
Jeff Liebermann
Jan 1, 2015, 11:48:49 AM1/1/15
to
passion. The difference between Jay Leno, my architect, and I is that
Jay Leno is very good at comedy, while my architect friend and I were
quite mediocre at music. If he's good, encourage him. If he's lousy,
divert him to something else.
I hadn't heard the story about Jay Leno, but I can see a few problems.
The inspiration to bail out of a day job and go full time into
entertainment or music is usually inspired by a mentor, agent, talent
scout, or club owner. Like everything else, it's not what you know or
can do, but rather whom you know, good timing, attitude, and good
timing. The common term is "lucky break". A career commitment can
probably happen in a vacuum, but I doubt this one did. It's like
cats. Cats pick their own owners. Careers pick their own players.
Also, there's always a "way back" if comedy had failed. When you're
young, the job opportunities are much better than as we get older. Jay
could have gone back to pumping gasoline or whatever with little
effort.
Incidentally, I suspect that the difference between Jay Leno and the
rest of his crowd is that he's good at both delivery and writing his
monologs. He was forced to go back to writing his own stuff by the
writers strike in 2008, and did quite well.
<http://nymag.com/arts/tv/features/43266/>
Jeff Liebermann
Jan 1, 2015, 2:27:16 PM1/1/15
to
On Thu, 1 Jan 2015 03:34:02 -0800 (PST), larrymo...@my-deja.com
wrote:
>What would you have told him if his major had been art history?
I'll answer if you tell me why my answer might be useful or relevent.
Locally, we have something even better than art history called
"History of Conciousness".
<http://histcon.ucsc.edu>
<http://histcon.ucsc.edu/about/index.html>
Graduates are appointed by Obama to high positions, so it's not
totally useless:
<http://news.ucsc.edu/2014/04/obaman-humanities-nomination.html>
Graduates of the History of Consciousness Department
find employment in a range of disciplines, including
literature, women's studies, ethnic studies, American studies,
sociology, anthropology, communication, and philosophy.
History of Consciousness graduates have also found positions
outside academic institutions as researchers, writers,
filmmakers, curators, organizers and administrators.
wrote:
>What would you have told him if his major had been art history?
Locally, we have something even better than art history called
"History of Conciousness".
<http://histcon.ucsc.edu>
<http://histcon.ucsc.edu/about/index.html>
Graduates are appointed by Obama to high positions, so it's not
totally useless:
<http://news.ucsc.edu/2014/04/obaman-humanities-nomination.html>
Graduates of the History of Consciousness Department
find employment in a range of disciplines, including
literature, women's studies, ethnic studies, American studies,
sociology, anthropology, communication, and philosophy.
History of Consciousness graduates have also found positions
outside academic institutions as researchers, writers,
filmmakers, curators, organizers and administrators.
Mike
Jan 1, 2015, 2:41:12 PM1/1/15
to
On Thu, 01 Jan 2015 11:27:20 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>
> Locally, we have something even better than art history called "History
> of Conciousness".
That's good; I thought the rest of the world had enough difficulty
>
> Locally, we have something even better than art history called "History
> of Conciousness".
defining "Conciousness"!
Is "better" used ironically?
Mike.
jurb...@gmail.com
Jan 1, 2015, 3:09:06 PM1/1/15
to
I know and have known so many people who are so damn good at music it is not funny. However none of them are making any real money off of it. One guy plays practically everything rock, and actually wrote and performed ALL parts of songs, and sounds great. Layed down the drum track, then the bass, then the rhythm guitar, then lead, keyboard and then sang it. Has a band and gets some gigs at bars and stuf.
But to pay the bills he lays ceramic tile.
Life hasn't caught up to music yet with one percent of the people having most of the money. In the music biz it is more like a tenth of a percent if that. Guy I work with, DAMN, talk about playing guitar. I heard chords he played justy screwing round tht I did not know COULD be played on a guitar.
To pay the bills he fixes guitars.
Living in the limelight,
The universal dream,
For those who wish to seem,
Those who wish to be,
Must... (Rush)
Must have alot of luck and connections. The people who run the music business now are not what they once were. The game is rigged in favor of their folks. What's more, if you can paly as well as the pros, you are a dime a dozen. To really get anywhere you have to actually compose music and that is harder than it looks. There is already so much music already done, almost everything you listen to is a remake, or in some cases adapted from a part of the great works by the likes of Beethoven and such. It is likely everything you do has been done.
I know a guy calls Jimi Hendrix a secong rate blues guitarist. Youy hear him play and you see that he has the right to say that. Very good, his rendition of playing and singing Stairway To Heaven with an acoustic guitar is fantastic. If it hadn 't been done before he could BE Led Zepplin.
If he had the proper connectionns.
Music is fun. I like to do it when I have just the right buzz and get in the mood. I finally got to the point where I can play and sing at the same time, which is harder than it looks I found. But it is never going to make me a dime. I work for a music store now and none of them people are rich except for the owner of the place maybe. The music lessons I think are like $30 an hour. I made that much fixing TVs.
There is one thiong though, someone who likes playing music understands a form of math. The chords and shit. They could be adapted for engineering or building things.
Trade school.
Don't l;ook at me in that tone of voice, yes, trade school. It is not demeaning or anything, you know how much money plumbers make ? Union bricklayers. If you are in good shape and not afraid of working hard them guys make money. Both make more than most newbie engineers. The union usually runs the trade school and once you get that journeyman card you are employable. And if a hundred grand a year isn't enough you can go to other countries and make twice or thrice that.
There is a youtube video out there call "College Conspiracy", if you can find it it is worth the watch. What they're selling is one thing. What you're getting is another. The fact is you need speacial skills to really make it in this economy now. you need to have to be able to DO somethinng and that is not going to be plucking zither strings or whatever. Closest guy I know to making money playing a guitar actually sometimes goes out in front of the brick and mortar and plays out there to attract attention. A marketing gimmick.
It's just how it is.
Good luck with the kid. As bad as it seems, at least he is interested in something. Many have no interest at all except to get high and fuck. So it's not all bad. He just needs to realize reality. The music business sucks, and now it sucks worse because of digital. Record sales ? There are no record stores ! Between P2P and youtube, they can't sttop the hemorrage of money.
OK, enough.
But to pay the bills he lays ceramic tile.
Life hasn't caught up to music yet with one percent of the people having most of the money. In the music biz it is more like a tenth of a percent if that. Guy I work with, DAMN, talk about playing guitar. I heard chords he played justy screwing round tht I did not know COULD be played on a guitar.
To pay the bills he fixes guitars.
Living in the limelight,
The universal dream,
For those who wish to seem,
Those who wish to be,
Must... (Rush)
Must have alot of luck and connections. The people who run the music business now are not what they once were. The game is rigged in favor of their folks. What's more, if you can paly as well as the pros, you are a dime a dozen. To really get anywhere you have to actually compose music and that is harder than it looks. There is already so much music already done, almost everything you listen to is a remake, or in some cases adapted from a part of the great works by the likes of Beethoven and such. It is likely everything you do has been done.
I know a guy calls Jimi Hendrix a secong rate blues guitarist. Youy hear him play and you see that he has the right to say that. Very good, his rendition of playing and singing Stairway To Heaven with an acoustic guitar is fantastic. If it hadn 't been done before he could BE Led Zepplin.
If he had the proper connectionns.
Music is fun. I like to do it when I have just the right buzz and get in the mood. I finally got to the point where I can play and sing at the same time, which is harder than it looks I found. But it is never going to make me a dime. I work for a music store now and none of them people are rich except for the owner of the place maybe. The music lessons I think are like $30 an hour. I made that much fixing TVs.
There is one thiong though, someone who likes playing music understands a form of math. The chords and shit. They could be adapted for engineering or building things.
Trade school.
Don't l;ook at me in that tone of voice, yes, trade school. It is not demeaning or anything, you know how much money plumbers make ? Union bricklayers. If you are in good shape and not afraid of working hard them guys make money. Both make more than most newbie engineers. The union usually runs the trade school and once you get that journeyman card you are employable. And if a hundred grand a year isn't enough you can go to other countries and make twice or thrice that.
There is a youtube video out there call "College Conspiracy", if you can find it it is worth the watch. What they're selling is one thing. What you're getting is another. The fact is you need speacial skills to really make it in this economy now. you need to have to be able to DO somethinng and that is not going to be plucking zither strings or whatever. Closest guy I know to making money playing a guitar actually sometimes goes out in front of the brick and mortar and plays out there to attract attention. A marketing gimmick.
It's just how it is.
Good luck with the kid. As bad as it seems, at least he is interested in something. Many have no interest at all except to get high and fuck. So it's not all bad. He just needs to realize reality. The music business sucks, and now it sucks worse because of digital. Record sales ? There are no record stores ! Between P2P and youtube, they can't sttop the hemorrage of money.
OK, enough.
mike
Jan 2, 2015, 6:49:53 AM1/2/15
to
I expect college to teach you how to THINK.
(military teaches you how to follow orders)
I don't like history/art type majors because they teach you what
someone else did. Not totally useless, but critical thinking is
more useful.
I learned more useful/practical stuff the first week on the job
from an excellent mentor than I did in five years of engineering school.
But if I hadn't had the background, I wouldn't have been able to
comprehend my mentor.
Smoking pot and playing video games is not "going to college."
Maybe a tiered approach.
Let the military teach him how to follow orders, then
order him to go to college.
You can always do whatever you want after a basic education.
You may have started too late.
My dad had a basic college education, a blue-collar job
and a TV repair business on the side.
He bought me a Heathkit short wave radio kit somewhere around age 8.
He steered me toward ham radio.
He paid me 50-cents to check all the tubes in a TV.
I had to keep accounts of my work and payments.
One day, he just took me aside and taught me long division.
He got me a job after school at a friend's TV shop.
I never thought about it at the time, but he may have been
paying my salary under the table.
There was never any question whether I'd be an engineer.
Wasn't my choice.
Nobody told me to do it.
It just happened...thanks to my dad.
amdx
Jan 2, 2015, 4:12:52 PM1/2/15
to
I'm surrounded by people earning money fishing, a few are doing very,
some making a living, and most don't own a car and live with someone
else when the boat isn't out. Some of those could have a little if they
didn't drink and use drugs when they hit land. (not saying they don't
take them with them fishing)
He has not shown interest in fishing, and that's ok. 40 year old
fishermen look like they're 55.
Mikek
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
http://www.avast.com
amdx
Jan 2, 2015, 4:45:29 PM1/2/15
to
power supplies, and parts. Showed him ohms law, and verified it.
He was ahead of me in math, so it was a breeze, when I needed help
I ask him. We once made an electric motor. As a project I suggested
we build an electric go kart. We did, but dad did most of the work, but
I did run through motor, axle ratio, tire circumference, speed calcs,
and he understood. he and the neighbor kids had fun.
I will say from the start both kids new they were going to college, my
daughter graduated H.S. 4th out of a 430 class. Somewhere around 10th or
11th grade, I figured out my son was probably smarter than my daughter,
he just didn't do anymore work than he had to. His grades got him into a
good university but he didn't work at it. Now I think it's just video
games and laziness that have brought him to a halt.
larrymo...@my-deja.com
Jan 3, 2015, 1:33:53 PM1/3/15
to
On Thursday, January 1, 2015 12:27:16 PM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Thu, 1 Jan 2015 03:34:02 -0800 (PST), larrymo...@my-deja.com
> wrote:
>
> On Thu, 1 Jan 2015 03:34:02 -0800 (PST), larrymo...@my-deja.com
> wrote:
>
> >What would you have told him if his major had been art history?
>
> I'll answer if you tell me why my answer might be useful or relevent.
Art history is not exactly a major with a high rate of return in the
>
> I'll answer if you tell me why my answer might be useful or relevent.
job market, and graduates often have less than no vocational skills.
And because neither students nor employers like the major, why
encourage its study?
>
> Locally, we have something even better than art history called
> "History of Conciousness".
> <http://histcon.ucsc.edu>
> <http://histcon.ucsc.edu/about/index.html>
> Graduates are appointed by Obama to high positions, so it's not
> totally useless:
> <http://news.ucsc.edu/2014/04/obaman-humanities-nomination.html>
> Graduates of the History of Consciousness Department
> find employment in a range of disciplines, including
> literature, women's studies, ethnic studies, American studies,
> sociology, anthropology, communication, and philosophy.
> History of Consciousness graduates have also found positions
> outside academic institutions as researchers, writers,
> filmmakers, curators, organizers and administrators.
larrymo...@my-deja.com
Jan 3, 2015, 1:39:32 PM1/3/15
to
late night TV tragedy he ran for two decades would have never happened?
Gareth Magennis
Jan 4, 2015, 4:33:26 PM1/4/15
to
"Tom Miller" wrote in message news:m824n3$9vo$1...@dont-email.me...
paid labour. This will be a lot of fun. (loading trucks, going to gigs,
roadying hard and enjoying it)
If he is really interested, he will closely watch and talk to the engineers,
learn a huge amount he never knew existed, and eventually be trusted to take
on live sound work and be properly paid for it.
Gareth.
dave
Jan 5, 2015, 10:04:43 AM1/5/15
to
On 01/03/2015 10:33 AM, larrymo...@my-deja.com wrote:
> On Thursday, January 1, 2015 12:27:16 PM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> On Thu, 1 Jan 2015 03:34:02 -0800 (PST), larrymo...@my-deja.com
>
> On Thursday, January 1, 2015 12:27:16 PM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> On Thu, 1 Jan 2015 03:34:02 -0800 (PST), larrymo...@my-deja.com
>
> Art history is not exactly a major with a high rate of return in the
> job market, and graduates often have less than no vocational skills.
> And because neither students nor employers like the major, why
> encourage its study?
>
College is not a place for job training. It is to make the individual
> job market, and graduates often have less than no vocational skills.
> And because neither students nor employers like the major, why
> encourage its study?
>
a better citizen, as much as anything. To the extent an educated
populace benefits society as a whole, state universities should be free.
Plumbing and changing bedpans are the big jobs going forward; don't need
a degree for either.
John Robertson
Jan 5, 2015, 1:07:14 PM1/5/15
to
On 12/31/2014 4:15 PM, amdx wrote:
Economics. He doesn't live at home so he pays rent, has a steady
girlfriend, does everything one expects when living on their own, and he
is learning a trade. I don't expect him to continue in my field for too
much longer, but in the meantime we can talk and he has a breather while
he figures out his priorities. Plus he gets training in repairing
equipment, practical computer applications (online store), dealing with
customers, etc.
Not every parent has that luxury - being able to hire/train one's
offspring - so it is not a panacea, but it is at least helping him.
John :-#)#
--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
(604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
amdx
Jan 5, 2015, 1:59:39 PM1/5/15
to
(Obama economy)
We can put him to work in our small business, however, all he will learn
is what it's like to deal with the public! Oh, and maybe he would figure
out he could earn 4 x as much if he got a degree.
John Robertson
Jan 6, 2015, 1:16:41 AM1/6/15
to
want to get political. Of course in Canada folks blame Harper (current
PM) or Trudeau (70s - 90s popular PM) or Mulroney (brought in Free Trade
with USA - Ha!). So, you can blame anyone you like.
However politicians can only do what the people approve, be it Bush,
Harper, Obama, Mendela, Putin...otherwise we kick them out and get some
new 'leader' to show the way the population is heading. Scary, eh?
Larry Niven (right wing SF author) kinda had it right where his
cleverest aliens - the Puppeteers' - leader was called "The Hindmost" as
they lead for the rear, in other words they followed the crowd.
Mike
Jan 6, 2015, 5:10:17 AM1/6/15
to
On Mon, 05 Jan 2015 22:16:37 -0800, John Robertson wrote:
> Larry Niven (right wing SF author) kinda had it right where his
> cleverest aliens - the Puppeteers' - leader was called "The Hindmost" as
> they lead for the rear, in other words they followed the crowd.
>
> John :-#)#
And, long before him, Gilbert & Sullivan's Duke of Plaza Toro had the same
> Larry Niven (right wing SF author) kinda had it right where his
> cleverest aliens - the Puppeteers' - leader was called "The Hindmost" as
> they lead for the rear, in other words they followed the crowd.
>
> John :-#)#
battle plan...
Mike.
amdx
Jan 6, 2015, 8:43:25 AM1/6/15
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>that situation was set up by Bush - if you
> want to get political. Of course in Canada folks blame Harper (current
> PM) or Trudeau (70s - 90s popular PM) or Mulroney (brought in Free Trade
> with USA - Ha!). So, you can blame anyone you like.
>
> However politicians can only do what the people approve,
> be it Bush,
> Harper, Obama, Mendela, Putin...otherwise we kick them out
and get some new 'leader'
Mikek
mog...@hotmail.com
Jan 7, 2015, 4:22:57 PM1/7/15
to
(yet, expect the perfect kid)
amdx
Jan 7, 2015, 4:40:30 PM1/7/15
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Oregonian Haruspex
Jan 7, 2015, 5:12:40 PM1/7/15
to
Pressuring him into college in the first place was probably a huge
mistake.
mog...@hotmail.com
Jan 8, 2015, 8:19:06 AM1/8/15
to
mog...@hotmail.com
Jan 8, 2015, 8:27:29 AM1/8/15
to
On Wednesday, January 7, 2015 8:32:12 PM UTC-5, F. George McDuffee wrote:
> On Wed, 7 Jan 2015 13:22:51 -0800 (PST), mog...@hotmail.com
> wrote:
>
> >> What are some job categories in music, music recording, studio=A0
> >> recording. I don't know! What should he be learning?=A0
> >> know this is very open ended, because he doesn't know what he wants.=
> >=A0
> >> Just venting and looking for ideas, he will do what he wants when he find=
> >> it, but I figure my job is to put things in his path until he trips on=A0
> >> something.=A0
> ======================
>
> Your son is fortunate he has a concerned and involved
> father.
>
> This is a common problem in today's society/main stream
> culture because most of our young people are now kept
> separated from, and in many cases are not even allowed to
> observe work (because of perceived legal liability).
I fear that you could even carry that thought a little further with all of the divorce and custody battles. They can't even spend time with both parents, let alone visit the places where they work.
> If possible he should contact the university placement
> office for extensive interest/talent testing and advise.
> for example
> http://tinyurl.com/p8oeyvv
> http://tinyurl.com/nat2hz3
> http://tinyurl.com/d5xgql5
Yeah, that and keep up with what his professors are into. Tell them his interests as they change and what opportunities are out there.
> The music/entertainment field as a whole, while glamorous
> and exciting on the surface (because this is what sells)
> appears to be an extremely demanding field, requiring
> extensive amounts of paid and unpaid work and long hours in
> all areas, not just the performers.
>
> Additionally, because of the glamor which attracts large
> numbers of wannabes, the compensation for all but the very
> top performers, and to a limited extent their "possse", is
> low and large amounts of talent/inate ability and
> practice-practice-practice is required.
>
> If at all possible, try to get him internships in some of
> the areas in which he may be interested such as record
> production [mixer] or night club DJ, but as noted these are
> galm jobs and are hard to get, even with no pay.
>
> If he is not already playing in a garage band, and composing
> music, he is advised to forget about the guitar as he will
> be competing with people who have played since they could
> hold a guitar.
>
> A google search on {music relate employment} returned 169kk
> hits. Many of these such as business manager, intellectual
> property manager, event manager, etc. require a business
> degree and experience A few of the sites include
> http://tinyurl.com/q2wqo5j
> http://tinyurl.com/nrxdka9
> http://tinyurl.com/k2cuwt9
> http://tinyurl.com/mk28e6u
Being in the right place at the right time, saying all the right things.
> On Wed, 7 Jan 2015 13:22:51 -0800 (PST), mog...@hotmail.com
> wrote:
>
> >> What are some job categories in music, music recording, studio=A0
> >> recording. I don't know! What should he be learning?=A0
> >> know this is very open ended, because he doesn't know what he wants.=
> >=A0
> >> Just venting and looking for ideas, he will do what he wants when he find=
> >> it, but I figure my job is to put things in his path until he trips on=A0
> >> something.=A0
> ======================
>
> Your son is fortunate he has a concerned and involved
> father.
>
> This is a common problem in today's society/main stream
> culture because most of our young people are now kept
> separated from, and in many cases are not even allowed to
> observe work (because of perceived legal liability).
I fear that you could even carry that thought a little further with all of the divorce and custody battles. They can't even spend time with both parents, let alone visit the places where they work.
> If possible he should contact the university placement
> office for extensive interest/talent testing and advise.
> for example
> http://tinyurl.com/p8oeyvv
> http://tinyurl.com/nat2hz3
> http://tinyurl.com/d5xgql5
Yeah, that and keep up with what his professors are into. Tell them his interests as they change and what opportunities are out there.
> The music/entertainment field as a whole, while glamorous
> and exciting on the surface (because this is what sells)
> appears to be an extremely demanding field, requiring
> extensive amounts of paid and unpaid work and long hours in
> all areas, not just the performers.
>
> Additionally, because of the glamor which attracts large
> numbers of wannabes, the compensation for all but the very
> top performers, and to a limited extent their "possse", is
> low and large amounts of talent/inate ability and
> practice-practice-practice is required.
>
> If at all possible, try to get him internships in some of
> the areas in which he may be interested such as record
> production [mixer] or night club DJ, but as noted these are
> galm jobs and are hard to get, even with no pay.
>
> If he is not already playing in a garage band, and composing
> music, he is advised to forget about the guitar as he will
> be competing with people who have played since they could
> hold a guitar.
>
> A google search on {music relate employment} returned 169kk
> hits. Many of these such as business manager, intellectual
> property manager, event manager, etc. require a business
> degree and experience A few of the sites include
> http://tinyurl.com/q2wqo5j
> http://tinyurl.com/nrxdka9
> http://tinyurl.com/k2cuwt9
> http://tinyurl.com/mk28e6u
Being in the right place at the right time, saying all the right things.
Jerry Peters
Jan 8, 2015, 4:09:06 PM1/8/15
to
I'd expect that a degree in "something or other studies" to be mostly
worthless.
mog...@hotmail.com
Jan 9, 2015, 8:34:15 AM1/9/15
to
On Thursday, January 8, 2015 at 7:37:33 PM UTC-5, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
> Ignoramus30544 <ignoram...@NOSPAM.30544.invalid> fired this volley in
> news:Q-qdnfCoGPtMhjLJ...@giganews.com:
>
> > My guess is that it is due to substance abuse.
> >
>
> Might be, but I had almost $60K into a medical degree for my son when he
> just bailed out.
>
> In his case, it was "personality abuse"; his constant "wantsturbation"
> was his downfall.
>
> "Dad, I just don't like all the rules and restrictions. I want to be
> free to do what I want to do, not what some stupid professor tells me I
> have to do."
Yeah, a lot of people hear stuff like that on hate radio. The AM dial on radio spends all day telling you that college campuses are brainwashing people to become liberals, shed the values they grew up with, etc... So the people are scared that they'll lose their freedoms, so they take up guns, hate the government, etc...
> To which I replied, "Try 'doing what you want to do' with no education,
> no work experience, and no money."
>
> It didn't sway him. He's a DOT weigh-station inspector now, making a
> barely-subsistance hourly wage, when he could have been (a damned good)
> surgeon -- he has the artistic and manual skills to have done it well.
>
> You can't lead their lives for them.
In other words, some people can't learn from lecture. They only learn from experience.
> Ignoramus30544 <ignoram...@NOSPAM.30544.invalid> fired this volley in
> news:Q-qdnfCoGPtMhjLJ...@giganews.com:
>
> > My guess is that it is due to substance abuse.
> >
>
> Might be, but I had almost $60K into a medical degree for my son when he
> just bailed out.
>
> In his case, it was "personality abuse"; his constant "wantsturbation"
> was his downfall.
>
> "Dad, I just don't like all the rules and restrictions. I want to be
> free to do what I want to do, not what some stupid professor tells me I
> have to do."
Yeah, a lot of people hear stuff like that on hate radio. The AM dial on radio spends all day telling you that college campuses are brainwashing people to become liberals, shed the values they grew up with, etc... So the people are scared that they'll lose their freedoms, so they take up guns, hate the government, etc...
> To which I replied, "Try 'doing what you want to do' with no education,
> no work experience, and no money."
>
> It didn't sway him. He's a DOT weigh-station inspector now, making a
> barely-subsistance hourly wage, when he could have been (a damned good)
> surgeon -- he has the artistic and manual skills to have done it well.
>
> You can't lead their lives for them.
In other words, some people can't learn from lecture. They only learn from experience.
walter_...@post.com
Jan 9, 2015, 12:54:43 PM1/9/15
to
On Thursday, January 8, 2015 at 7:37:33 PM UTC-5, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
> Ignoramus30544 <ignoram...@NOSPAM.30544.invalid> fired this volley in
> news:Q-qdnfCoGPtMhjLJ...@giganews.com:
>
> > My guess is that it is due to substance abuse.
> >
>
> Might be, but I had almost $60K into a medical degree for my son when he
> just bailed out.
>
> In his case, it was "personality abuse"; his constant "wantsturbation"
> was his downfall.
>
> "Dad, I just don't like all the rules and restrictions. I want to be
> free to do what I want to do, not what some stupid professor tells me I
> have to do."
>
> Ignoramus30544 <ignoram...@NOSPAM.30544.invalid> fired this volley in
> news:Q-qdnfCoGPtMhjLJ...@giganews.com:
>
> > My guess is that it is due to substance abuse.
> >
>
> Might be, but I had almost $60K into a medical degree for my son when he
> just bailed out.
>
> In his case, it was "personality abuse"; his constant "wantsturbation"
> was his downfall.
>
> "Dad, I just don't like all the rules and restrictions. I want to be
> free to do what I want to do, not what some stupid professor tells me I
> have to do."
>
> To which I replied, "Try 'doing what you want to do' with no education,
> no work experience, and no money."
>
> It didn't sway him. He's a DOT weigh-station inspector now, making
> a barely-subsistance hourly wage ...
> no work experience, and no money."
>
> It didn't sway him. He's a DOT weigh-station inspector now, making
That's a government job. That's OK! He could let his chain of command know that he can go to night school and get a masters. Then he make weekly calls to the local bond broker bigwigs and state lawmakers on what state or federal government bond projects near his job site he could chip into (because you need a bond broker in order to buy any government bonds). If he tries to make his bond purchase choices the same as the main government big shots and business leaders in the town he lives in, he can go very far in government.
(he might even get a country club spot if he has good golf skills and good enough connections)
mog...@hotmail.com
Jan 10, 2015, 11:29:18 AM1/10/15
to
On Friday, January 9, 2015 at 5:20:00 PM UTC-5, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
> walter_...@post.com fired this volley in news:1bfc5df8-e37e-4410-
> b43c-63a...@googlegroups.com:
>
> > That's a government job. That's OK!
>
> It's not federal, it's state, and weight inspectors are not "line" staff.
> They are not LEOs. They are just hourly employees who can be laid off,
> fired, whatever. The position requires no experience or training to
> start... it's all OJT.
>
> And worst -- there is no promotion path for that
> grade. He can get minimum COLA, but no advancement.
>
> Not all government jobs are cushy lifetime appointments!
Everyone starts out in the trashy positions, but the ones who at least try to get on the same page as top government appointees eventually get "cushy" or senior executive level state or federal appointments.
Actually, you do have to be in the right spot at the right time once you get your foot in the door of any place you work. Where ever the executives are, you (the low man on the totem-pole) have to figure out a way to be there.
The few "low men on the totem pole" who manage to do that throughout their career get those spots. Maybe a friendship with a government and other bond broker (familiar with most state government projects in his area) might be a key to an eventuality like that.
(who knows where it could lead)
> walter_...@post.com fired this volley in news:1bfc5df8-e37e-4410-
> b43c-63a...@googlegroups.com:
>
> > That's a government job. That's OK!
>
> They are not LEOs. They are just hourly employees who can be laid off,
> fired, whatever. The position requires no experience or training to
> start... it's all OJT.
>
> And worst -- there is no promotion path for that
> grade. He can get minimum COLA, but no advancement.
>
> Not all government jobs are cushy lifetime appointments!
Everyone starts out in the trashy positions, but the ones who at least try to get on the same page as top government appointees eventually get "cushy" or senior executive level state or federal appointments.
Actually, you do have to be in the right spot at the right time once you get your foot in the door of any place you work. Where ever the executives are, you (the low man on the totem-pole) have to figure out a way to be there.
The few "low men on the totem pole" who manage to do that throughout their career get those spots. Maybe a friendship with a government and other bond broker (familiar with most state government projects in his area) might be a key to an eventuality like that.
(who knows where it could lead)
mog...@hotmail.com
Jan 11, 2015, 10:40:07 AM1/11/15
to
On Sunday, January 11, 2015 at 5:56:29 AM UTC-5, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
> Larry Jaques <lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> fired this volley in
> news:g274bahu919qgdtu2...@4ax.com:
>
> > So show him some tough love. Cut him loose: He either learns and
> > makes it, or he doesn't, but it's up to him. G'luck!
>
> Loose? He's 38, and on his own for 14 years.
>
> The money's sunk -- He couldn't pay it back if I held a gun to his head.
>
> This isn't a 'continuing problem' for me, it's just an unfortunate truth,
> and an irk that won't 'de-irk', because of all the folks his age whom I
> see in the same situation.
>
> Sometimes I wonder if he'd have been more intent on finishing his degree
> if he'd had to work for the tuition... no telling, now.
Yeah, but kids usually do what their parents did. So I guess he's copying you to a degree, right? I mean your generation had going-out-doors, joking with your friends, reading newspapers and books. All that helped in college.
His generation had Television, MTV and video games. That background makes college and competition tougher.
(so maybe he couldn't have just copied you)
> Larry Jaques <lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> fired this volley in
> news:g274bahu919qgdtu2...@4ax.com:
>
> > So show him some tough love. Cut him loose: He either learns and
> > makes it, or he doesn't, but it's up to him. G'luck!
>
> Loose? He's 38, and on his own for 14 years.
>
> The money's sunk -- He couldn't pay it back if I held a gun to his head.
>
> This isn't a 'continuing problem' for me, it's just an unfortunate truth,
> and an irk that won't 'de-irk', because of all the folks his age whom I
> see in the same situation.
>
> Sometimes I wonder if he'd have been more intent on finishing his degree
> if he'd had to work for the tuition... no telling, now.
Yeah, but kids usually do what their parents did. So I guess he's copying you to a degree, right? I mean your generation had going-out-doors, joking with your friends, reading newspapers and books. All that helped in college.
His generation had Television, MTV and video games. That background makes college and competition tougher.
(so maybe he couldn't have just copied you)
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