Nakamichi CD Player 3 - needs to heat before it's able to read disc

[andre...@hotmail.com]

Hi,



I have a Nakamichi CD Player 3, circa 1992, that is a terrific player, but
requires to be warmed up for about 1.5 hours before it is able to read the
disc; After this point, then it works fine.



I am not sure why the warm up needed, but it is drag when you have to build
in this lead-time into your CD listening.



Any thoughts as to why this is happening and steps to remedy will be most
appreciated..



Thanks

[Phil Allison]

<andre...@hotmail.com>

** Might be sticky lubricant on moving parts.

Do not tackle it yourself - take it to an experienced audio tech.




.... Phil

[William Sommerwerck]

> I have a Nakamichi CD Player 3, circa 1992, that is a terrific player, but
> requires to be warmed up for about 1.5 hours before it is able to read the
> disc; After this point, then it works fine.

> I am not sure why the warm up needed, but it is drag when you have to
> build in this lead-time into your CD listening.

Why not just leave it on all the time?

You didn't indicate what happens when you load the disk from a cold start.
Does the disk spin up? If so, that suggests it might not be sticky
lubricant. (Phil, when was the last time you saw a consumer-electronics
product with sticky lubricant?)

My gut feeling is that it's an intermittant laser diode.

You might want to read through these postings...

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=279179

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=275220

You might also go to JustAnswer. The quality of their response varies, but
they do have some knowledgeable people.

Regardless, this could be the sort of problem that eats up huge amounts of
expensive diagnosis time, to no effect.

[Phil Allison]

"William Sommerwanker = Criminal TROLL


FOAD you stinking pile of autistic, sub human garbage.





.. Phil

[Adrian C]

On 26/11/2011 14:18, Phil Allison wrote:
> "William Sommerwanker = Criminal TROLL
>
>
> FOAD you stinking pile of autistic, sub human garbage.
>
>

For the google tape, Phil is knowlegable but has problems expressing
himself. Someone told him that he is a 'stinking pile of autistic, sub
human garbage' and this phrase has stuck in his memory as useful to be
fired back as insult.

He is unique. Googling finds no one else on the net has ever uttered
"stinking pile of autistic" other than him.

We should start a list of these 'insults', record the date and times and
corrolate them against phases of the moon, tides, hormones cycles or
something. Could there be a useful discovery?


BTW I feel valued items of audio equipment that the user has an obvious
personal relationship shouldn't be mucked about with as possible
heartbreak lies that way. The worst is to have some user let loose
lubricating it with WD40 or some other left-field third-hand cure, and
then have both user and machine spend some time with the applicable
medics, both having expensive repair sessions.

How much does/did Phil's treatment cost?

--
Adrian C

[William Sommerwerck]

"Adrian C" <em...@here.invalid> wrote in message
news:9jcd5l...@mid.individual.net...

> I feel valued items of audio equipment that the user has an obvious

> personal relationship shouldn't be mucked about with, as possible

> heartbreak lies that way. The worst is to have some user let loose
> lubricating it with WD40 or some other left-field third-hand cure, and
> then have both user and machine spend some time with the applicable
> medics, both having expensive repair sessions.

> How much does/did Phil's treatment cost?

Phil didn't suggest any treatment, other than taking the unit to a qualified
service technician. (Just try finding one.) But unless the "warm up" problem
is known and well-understood, the technician is likely to spend a lot of
expensive service time tracking it down.

[N_Cook]

<andre...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7nZzq.3148$NZ7....@newsfe02.iad...

I would assume the focus voltage is drifting a bit and out of capture range
until warmed up. Find the power pot (preset) measure R both ways and mark
with pen and adjust lower first one way and try and then the other no more
than 5 percent and see if it makes a difference

[Franc Zabkar]

On Sat, 26 Nov 2011 07:16:08 -0800, "William Sommerwerck"
<grizzle...@comcast.net> put finger to keyboard and composed:

The OP could try starting the unit upside down. This may shed some
light on the nature of the fault. He could also kickstart the disc by
spinning it manually.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

[Mark Zacharias]

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzle...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:jaqn3m$fon$1...@dont-email.me...

I have seen the main power supply filter cap open up on these.

Also shorted spindle motors.

Mark Z.

[William Sommerwerck]

> I've seen the main power supply filter cap open up on these.

And I've seen "bad" caps >temporarily< get better after a period of time.
Sounds like a good place to start checking. And PS caps are generally easy
to replace.

[Mark Zacharias]

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzle...@comcast.net> wrote in message

news:jat5ub$d48$1...@dont-email.me...

I should have mentioned that the aforementioned filter cap can result in
symptoms similar to those reported by the OP.

In the particular one I had, the shrink wrap of the capacitor had this weird
bubbly texture. On close examination, the corrosion we often see underneath
these things had grown and spread like a cancer under the plastic wrap.
Weird.

Mark Z.

[Arfa Daily]

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzle...@comcast.net> wrote in message

news:jaqn3m$fon$1...@dont-email.me...

>> I have a Nakamichi CD Player 3, circa 1992, that is a terrific player,
>> but
>> requires to be warmed up for about 1.5 hours before it is able to read
>> the
>> disc; After this point, then it works fine.
>
>> I am not sure why the warm up needed, but it is drag when you have to
>> build in this lead-time into your CD listening.
>
> Why not just leave it on all the time?
>
> You didn't indicate what happens when you load the disk from a cold start.
> Does the disk spin up? If so, that suggests it might not be sticky
> lubricant. (Phil, when was the last time you saw a consumer-electronics
> product with sticky lubricant?)

Actually, Phil is quite right. I see sticky lubricant all the time on CD
player laser rails, swinging-arm idlers on cassette decks, bits of
autochange mechanism on phono decks ...


Arfa

[Arfa Daily]

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzle...@comcast.net> wrote in message

news:jaqvs7$49f$1...@dont-email.me...

With all due respect William, that it utter nonsense. Any half way decent
technician, who understands the finer points of how a CD player works, will
have enough experience under his belt to readily get a handle on what is
causing the problem, whether he knows the specific player, or not. As you
very well know, there are sequences of well-defined events that all players
follow more or less, between inserting a disc, and actually playing it.
Whichever of the phases is failing in the case of this particular player,
will be readily identifiable to the experienced eye. The only way that could
then go tits up in terms of getting a fix, would be if the problem turned
out to be some really obscure electronic one, that isn't power supply
related. Such faults are actually exceedingly rare. In any case, as the
problem appears to be temperature related, even if it did turn out to be
electronic rather than mechanical or the laser itself, it should be able to
be found without fuss using a hot air source, and a can of freezer.

Arfa

[Arfa Daily]

"N_Cook" <div...@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:jar5q3$cpj$1...@dont-email.me...

Or don't, unless you are thoroughly experienced in carrying out such
adjustments ... :-\

Arfa

[William Sommerwerck]

"Arfa Daily" <arfa....@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:fggBq.64413$3Y.5...@newsfe18.ams2...

>>> How much does/did Phil's treatment cost?

>> Phil didn't suggest any treatment, other than taking the unit to a
>> qualified service technician. (Just try finding one.) But unless the
>> "warm up" problem is known and well-understood, the technician
>> is likely to spend a lot of expensive service time tracking it down.

> With all due respect William, that it utter nonsense. Any half way decent
> technician, who understands the finer points of how a CD player works,
will
> have enough experience under his belt to readily get a handle on what is
> causing the problem, whether he knows the specific player, or not. As you
> very well know, there are sequences of well-defined events that all
players
> follow more or less, between inserting a disc, and actually playing it.
> Whichever of the phases is failing in the case of this particular player,
> will be readily identifiable to the experienced eye. The only way that
could
> then go tits up in terms of getting a fix, would be if the problem turned
> out to be some really obscure electronic one, that isn't power supply
> related. Such faults are actually exceedingly rare. In any case, as the
> problem appears to be temperature related, even if it did turn out to be
> electronic rather than mechanical or the laser itself, it should be able
to
> be found without fuss using a hot air source, and a can of freezer.

As you many years' more experience than I in practical servicing, I ought
not to defend my position, as you are much more likely to be "right" than I.
However...

I'm fond of pointing out that the "correct" path of diagnosis is not asking
what's wrong, but of asking what isn't wrong.

The analytical point that needs attention is the 90-minutes needed before
the unit starts operating. * If it's a conventional heat-related problem,
why does it take so long to appear? Ergo, it (probably) isn't a conventional
heat-related problem.

Please note what I said...

"...unless the "warm up" problem [with this unit] is known and

well-understood, the technician is likely to spend a lot of expensive
service time tracking it down."

I stand by that. Most electronic equipment reaches operating temperature
within 20 minutes or so. I suspect there's either some screwy problem with
an IC that's going to require a speculative replacement, or there's a flaky
cap or two in the power supply. (I'm leaning to the latter, because I've
seen it in my own equipment.)

I would very much like to know what it turns out to be. If I'm wrong, I'll
publicly apologize. If right, I will restrain my glee.

* The OP hasn't told us what happens when he turns the working player off
for a few minutes, the on again

[Mark Zacharias]

"Arfa Daily" <arfa....@ntlworld.com> wrote in message

news:9igBq.183758$cr3.1...@newsfe03.ams2...

In my experience fooling around with the adjustments rarely actually fixes a
malfunction, they merely mask or compensate for what is actually wrong. For
example, increasing the tracking gain might (temporarily) seem to fix a
skipping problem, when the actual problem is bad lubrication on the laser
mechanical path (rails, etc as Arfa mentioned). Diddling with the adjustment
pots is best reserved for after parts replacement or other service, and
should be done by a knowledgeable hand, preferably with service literature
available.

Mark Z.

[Franc Zabkar]

On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 05:41:17 -0600, "Mark Zacharias"
<mark_za...@labolgcbs.net> put finger to keyboard and composed:

>"William Sommerwerck" <grizzle...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:jat5ub$d48$1...@dont-email.me...
>>> I've seen the main power supply filter cap open up on these.
>>
>> And I've seen "bad" caps >temporarily< get better after a period of time.
>> Sounds like a good place to start checking. And PS caps are generally easy
>> to replace.
>>
>>
>
>I should have mentioned that the aforementioned filter cap can result in
>symptoms similar to those reported by the OP.

FWIW, I had the same problem in an old Tevion DVD player (Aldi
supermarket brand).

[Phil Allison]

"Arfa Daily"

> Actually, Phil is quite right.

** Of course he is.

> I see sticky lubricant all the time on CD player laser rails, swinging-arm
> idlers on cassette decks, bits of autochange mechanism on phono decks ...

** The Naka in question is 20 fucking years old - FFS !!

If the lubricant is NOT sticky by now, it would be a miracle. This kind of
trouble, or any other fault that creates a repeatable 90 minute delay prior
to use, is NOT one an owner can fix himself.

That Somerwanker STEAMING GREAT NUT CASE is a 100% public menace who
should have a price on his head - wanted dead or alive.



... Phil