[Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp

[Yi-Kuen Lee]

Hi:

I wonder if anybody know where I can buy the light dimmer switch for
the 300 Watt torchiere-style halogen floor lamp. I checked my broken
dimmer switch is Zing Ear ZE-02. I tried to check internet such as
Digikey, Newmark.. But I couldn't find it. And I also find the manufacturer's
homepage: http://www.zingear.com.tw and sent an email to them. They didn't
reply my email. I think they just sell to the big company which makes the lamp.

Yi-Kuen

[Jerry G.]

These dimmer switches are very hard to get as a replacement part. The
old one is probably servicable. Most of the time the thyristor
goes defective, or the varyable resistor (pot). You can substitute
these parts and do some modification to make them work. This would
take some technical knowledge, and be done to allow for safety issues.
You will need a good base knowledge to do this.

The likely reason why you didn't get an answer from the manufacture is
that they are only interested to sell you in the thousands of pieces,
or only the finished product in large quantities.

If you were to pay someone to fix this dimmer module, the cost of the
service would probably exceed the value of the complete lamp. Even
if you bought the parts to do this yourself, you would be surprised
at how expensive this would be.

One solution is to replace the dimmer unit with a simple off/on power
switch for lamps, and plug the lamp into an outlit that has a wall
dimmer switch controling it. This way you still have the lamp with a
$2.98 switch in it, and the wall dimmer controlling it.

--

Jerry Greenberg

===========================================
Email: jerr...@hotmail.com
Home Page: http://www.zoom-one.com
Components: http://www.zoom-one.com/electron.htm
Products: http://shop.affinia.com/jerryg50/Store1/
Navigation: http://www.zoom-one.com/navigati.htm
Sci/Inst: http://www.zoom-one.com/actel.htm
Personal: http://www.total.net/~jerryg

Electronic Components, And Navigation Compasses

============ Message Separator ===============

"Yi-Kuen Lee" <yk...@ucla.edu> wrote in message
news:39602184...@ucla.edu...

[CLSNOWYOWL]

Why not purchase a foot switch for the on and off function (this switch can be
placed on a polarized AC extension cord and then wire in a seperate dimmer wall
lamp right on the wall.Just dedicate that outlet for only using the lamp,
because of the high current it puts out. I would try to find at least a 30 amp
limit dimmer switch for the wall (to give the lamp a lot of heat and safety
factor). Those lamps really do heat up and you have to be careful of this.
Modifying the lamp circuitry can also have certain repercussions, considering
the quality of their switches made this days. I have taken apart a couple of
lamps and the process of replacing a switch on a dimmer light is really
questionable, due to the flimsy way many are put together.

Another suggestion which only costs about $15.00 more than the two switches
I suggested is to actually find a DANA company brand dimmer lamp (which is a
standup style). They cost about $25.00 plus tax retail and are available at
Home Depot or Target. You have to assemble these lamps, but the wiring is
already done for you.

These devices are lightweight, have a good sturdy base and a three position
safety switch on it which produce about 60 watts of direct, adequate soft
lighting, which is much safer than the torch lamp you had purchased before.

I have had those DANA brand lamps for more than three years and have never
had a problem with them. They suit me perfectly when doing repairs.

[Andy Cuffe]

Yi-Kuen Lee wrote:
>
> Hi:
>
> I wonder if anybody know where I can buy the light dimmer switch for
> the 300 Watt torchiere-style halogen floor lamp. I checked my broken
> dimmer switch is Zing Ear ZE-02. I tried to check internet such as
> Digikey, Newmark.. But I couldn't find it. And I also find the manufacturer's
> homepage: http://www.zingear.com.tw and sent an email to them. They didn't
> reply my email. I think they just sell to the big company which makes the lamp.
>
> Yi-Kuen

These switches are available at home improvement stores like Lowe's. I
bought one a few weeks ago for about $8.
--
Andy Cuffe
balt...@psu.edu

[Yi-Kuen Lee]

Hi:

Thanks for lots of kind people's reply. I went to Home Depot and
found the dimmer switch for my floor lamp. It works!

Yi-Kuen

Date:
03 Jul 2000 14:06:22 GMT
From:
clsno...@aol.comjoe345 (CLSNOWYOWL)
Organization:
AOL http://www.aol.com
Newsgroups:
sci.electronics.repair
References:
1

ubject:
Re: [Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp
Date:
Mon, 03 Jul 2000 06:31:26 -0400
From:
"Jerry G." <jerr...@hotmail.com>
To:
Yi-Kuen Lee <yk...@ucla.edu>

[mikejc...@gmail.com]

On Monday, July 3, 2000 at 3:00:00 AM UTC-4, Yi-Kuen Lee wrote:
> Hi:
>
> I wonder if anybody know where I can buy the light dimmer switch for
> the 300 Watt torchiere-style halogen floor lamp. I checked my broken
> dimmer switch is Zing Ear ZE-02. I tried to check internet such as
> Digikey, Newmark.. But I couldn't find it. And I also find the manufacturer's
> homepage: http://www.zingear.com.tw and sent an email to them. They didn't
> reply my email. I think they just sell to the big company which makes the lamp.
>
> Yi-Kuen

Hello,

You can buy the switch from this link:
https://www.ceilingfanswitch.com/product/lamp-dimmer-zing-ear-ze-02/

[tabb...@gmail.com]

Do you reckon it's still awaiting repair after 17 years?


NT

[jurb...@gmail.com]

Yeah, another Googler. I am oe but I do not drege up decades old posts, I just use it because...

But the thing is you are really not supposed to din halogen lamps because then the halogen is not sufficiently activated to allow the filament to operate in the higher range, which is the whole idea of halogen lamps.

Actually I should have not posted because I do not fucking care.

[Phil Allison]

jurb...@gmail.com wrote:

----------------------------

> Yeah, another Googler. I am oe but I do not drege up decades old posts,
> I just use it because...
>
> But the thing is you are really not supposed to din halogen lamps because
> then the halogen is not sufficiently activated to allow the filament to
> operate in the higher range, which is the whole idea of halogen lamps.
>
>

** Yet another dumb myth trotted out by jurb.

Dimmed halogen bulbs last just fine - stage lighting has used dimmers and halogen lamps together for decades and get expected life out of them.

Hint, when dimmed the filament is cooler and does not NEED the " halogen cycle " to extend its life.


..... Phil

[Ian Field]

<jurb...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:7de0bee4-da07-4d3c...@googlegroups.com...

> Yeah, another Googler. I am oe but I do not drege up decades old posts, I
> just use it because...
>
> But the thing is you are really not supposed to din halogen lamps because
> then the halogen is not sufficiently activated to allow the filament to
> operate in the higher range, which is the whole idea of halogen lamps.

Its all about the; "halogen cycle" - vapourised tungsten recirculates and
condenses back on the filament. Under a critical temperature, it deposits on
the inside of the envelope just like regular bulbs.

[tabb...@gmail.com]

but slowly. And when full powered it then cleans itself.


NT

[Ian Field]

<tabb...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:c9252c33-28fe-42db...@googlegroups.com...

You'd have to get the quartz envelope seriously hot to do that - like
glowing so white it gave off UV.

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Monday, 26 June 2017 20:59:17 UTC+1, Ian Field wrote:
> <tabbypurr> wrote in message

AIUI they're self cleaning at rated voltage.


NT

[John Robertson]

When they are RUN at the rated voltage and power. If you dim them the
tungsten is deposited on the quartz and short of heating the quarts to
white hot (above poster's remarks) the tungsten is going to STAY on the
quartz, not recoating on the filament.

http://www.topbulb.com/blog/dimming-alters-halogen-cycle/

In other words don't do it.

John

>
> NT
>


--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd.
MOVED to #7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3
(604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

[Phil Allison]

John Robertson wrote:

----------------------

>
> When they are RUN at the rated voltage and power. If you dim them the
> tungsten is deposited on the quartz and short of heating the quarts to
> white hot (above poster's remarks) the tungsten is going to STAY on the
> quartz, not recoating on the filament.
>
> http://www.topbulb.com/blog/dimming-alters-halogen-cycle/
>
>

** That is merely one person's opinion, not backed up with evidence.

Wiki says differently :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halogen_lamp#Effect_of_voltage_on_performance

Stage lighting uses dimming all the time with halogen lamps and there is no blackening or short life experienced - the lamps run much longer as expected.

The claim that the "halogen cycle" puts metal back on the filament is true but it does not deposit it back where it came from so has little effect on lamp life.

Most halogen lamps are low voltage or high powered - so in both cases the filaments are thicker than typical non halogen examples.

Having a thick filament makes a halogen lamp last longer.



.... Phil

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Monday, 26 June 2017 23:14:32 UTC+1, John Robertson wrote:

That may be your belief. IRL halogen stage lighting works just fine.


NT

[Phil Allison]

tabb...@gmail.com wrote:

---------------------------

> > http://www.topbulb.com/blog/dimming-alters-halogen-cycle/
> >
> > In other words don't do it.
> >
> > John
>
> That may be your belief. IRL halogen stage lighting works just fine.
>
>

** A better example to use is the hundreds of MILLIONS of 12V * halogen down lights* installed in homes - nearly al of which are run on dimmers.

Users get mood light when needed PLSU a *large increase* in life span.

QED.



.... Phil

[mako...@yahoo.com]

On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 7:53:16 AM UTC-4, jurb...@gmail.com wrote:
> Yeah, another Googler. I am oe but I do not drege up decades old posts, I just use it because...

Google does display the date
m

[Ian Field]

"John Robertson" <sp...@flippers.com> wrote in message
news:v7ednesQc4ncGszE...@giganews.com...

I wouldn't go so far as "don't do it" - if you're dimming it, a little
shading probably isn't that much of a problem anyway.

The manufacturers say "don't do it " to cover their asses.

[Ian Field]

"Phil Allison" <palli...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:8d588b83-7796-47ce...@googlegroups.com...

Wrong - the filament surface get distinctly granular and weak spots are
inevitable. With DC, the tungsten actually migrates along the filament
length - it gets thinner at one end, and guess what happens next.

[Ian Field]

<tabb...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5da4a95e-16e2-4181...@googlegroups.com...

It wouldn't be any surprise if stage lighting is over run for short
periods - filament failure probably makes shading nothing more than a trade
off.

[Phil Allison]

Ian Field wrote:

---------------------

>>
> >> When they are RUN at the rated voltage and power. If you dim them the
> >> tungsten is deposited on the quartz and short of heating the quarts to
> >> white hot (above poster's remarks) the tungsten is going to STAY on the
> >> quartz, not recoating on the filament.
> >>
> >> http://www.topbulb.com/blog/dimming-alters-halogen-cycle/
> >>
> >>
> > ** That is merely one person's opinion, not backed up with evidence.
> >
> > Wiki says differently :
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halogen_lamp#Effect_of_voltage_on_performance
> >
> > Stage lighting uses dimming all the time with halogen lamps and there is
> > no blackening or short life experienced - the lamps run much longer as
> > expected.
> >
> > The claim that the "halogen cycle" puts metal back on the filament is true
> > but it does not deposit it back where it came from so has little effect on
> > lamp life.
> >
> > Most halogen lamps are low voltage or high powered - so in both cases the
> > filaments are thicker than typical non halogen examples.
>

> Wrong ....
>
>

** So they are actually thinner are they ??


FOAD you ridiculous, know nothing bloody troll.




..... Phil

[Phil Allison]

Ian Fuckwit Field wrote:

------------------------------

> >
> > That may be your belief. IRL halogen stage lighting works just fine.
>

> It wouldn't be any surprise .
>


** Any fact whatever would be HUGE surprise to a fuckwit like you.

> if stage lighting is over run for short periods

** Errr - dimmers only dim lamps down, not up.

Fuckwit.




...... Phil

[Ian Field]

"Phil Allison" <palli...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:ba045e58-cc1a-4c2c...@googlegroups.com...

They don't get any dimmer than you - some stage lighting used variacs that
went up to 110%.

[pf...@aol.com]

It is often assumed that incandescent and halogen light bulbs are completely different technologies. In fact, halogen is just a hybrid incandescent.

Both types of light bulbs use a tungsten filament. Both “burn out” when the filament breaks. Both use line and low voltage the same way.

Also, both incandescent and halogen bulbs can be dimmed. But here’s the interesting twist: the more a halogen bulb is dimmed, the more it becomes an incandescent light bulb again.

How Incandescent and Halogen Differ
The standard incandescent bulb is filled with a mixture of argon gas and a small amount of nitrogen gas. Inside this gas mix, the tungsten filament, heated to “incandescence”, slowly evaporates. Thinner portions of the filament get hotter and they evaporate more quickly. The evaporated tungsten deposits on the inside wall of the glass. Eventually, the filament evaporates so much tungsten that it breaks or “burns out”.

A halogen bulb mimics the technology of incandescent except for two features. First, the filament and gas are contained in a quartz capsule resistant to high temperature. Second, a halogen gas such as bromine or iodine is added to the gas mix. With this gas mixture and higher filament temperatures, a chemical change occurs to the tungsten filament evaporation process. Instead of depositing the evaporated tungsten on the bulb glass, it is deposited instead back onto the filament itself. This process of filament regeneration is known as the halogen cycle. It can double the life of an incandescent bulb.

In short the primary difference between halogen and incandescent is the existence of the halogen cycle operating in a quartz capsule.

Dimming Halogen Lights and Bulb Life
That brings us back to dimming.

Dimming works the same way for both incandescent and halogen. Lower the filament temperature by modifying the voltage and get progressively less light output. The halogen cycle works only at high filament temperatures. If the halogen bulb is dimmed enough (down to only 20% less light), the filament temperature drops and the halogen cycle stops. At that point, it is operating in “incandescent mode” with evaporated tungsten being deposited on the capsule wall rather than back on the filament.

Tip: While dimming often lengthens the life of incandescent bulbs, it may shorten the life of halogen bulbs and cause darkening of the quartz capsule.

Thanks to: David Burtner

http://www.topbulb.com/blog/dimming-alters-halogen-cycle/

Key Points:

a) Halogen lamps are hybrid incandescent lamps. We knew that.
b) The "Halogen Cycle" redeposits tungsten on the filament as compared to a standard incandescent lamp that gradually evaporates the tungsten.
c) The halogen cycle stops at around 20% LESS LIGHT. That would be at/around 80% of full light. Whereupon the lamp behaves as a standard incandescent lamp.
d) With all this in mind, a halogen lamp may be dimmed with the same technology, means and methods as a standard incandescent lamp. Primary effects are on life-span. The failure modes are unchanged, eventually the filament fails.

It ain't nohow rocket science.

Anyone with even a passing experience with lighting already knows all this -as well as even the lowliest sweeper at any given electrical supply house.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

[tabb...@gmail.com]

Since dimming is usually done at assorted levels, the above effect has sod all effect on lamp life in the real world in most cases.


NT

[pf...@aol.com]

On Wednesday, June 28, 2017 at 4:58:08 PM UTC-4, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:

>
> Since dimming is usually done at assorted levels, the above effect has sod all effect on lamp life in the real world in most cases.

Suffice it that if a halogen lamp operates at <80% of nominal voltage, the halogen effect (tungsten vapor re-depositing on the filament) will not take place - however that reduction-in-voltage occurs.

[John-Del]

One more thing: if you look at a halogen lamp crosseyed the filament will fail from the shock of your stare.. The filaments are not supported as they are in a standard incandescent lamp so they must not be subject to shock or vibration.

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, 28 June 2017 22:05:39 UTC+1, pf...@aol.com wrote:

> On Wednesday, June 28, 2017 at 4:58:08 PM UTC-4, tabby wrote:
>
> >
> > Since dimming is usually done at assorted levels, the above effect has sod all effect on lamp life in the real world in most cases.
>
> Suffice it that if a halogen lamp operates at <80% of nominal voltage, the

I thought you said 80% of light output, an entirely different point to 80% of voltage

> halogen effect (tungsten vapor re-depositing on the filament) will not take place - however that reduction-in-voltage occurs.

At 80% voltage that would be an irrelevance. I presumed yuo know your filament lamp equations, now I'm not sure.


NT

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, 28 June 2017 22:07:13 UTC+1, John-Del wrote:

> One more thing: if you look at a halogen lamp crosseyed the filament will fail from the shock of your stare.. The filaments are not supported as they are in a standard incandescent lamp so they must not be subject to shock or vibration.

Ah, that'll be why they've been so popular as car headlamps.
It's the thin mains 50w ones that don't like vibration.


NT

[Phil Allison]

Ian Field the Fuckwit Bullshit Artist wrote:

---------------------------------------------

>
> >> >
> >> > That may be your belief. IRL halogen stage lighting works just fine.
> >>
> >> It wouldn't be any surprise .
> >>
> >
> >
> > ** Any fact whatever would be HUGE surprise to a fuckwit like you.
> >
> >
> >> if stage lighting is over run for short periods
> >
> > ** Errr - dimmers only dim lamps down, not up.
>
>
> They don't get any dimmer than you - some stage lighting used variacs that
> went up to 110%.
>

** Long in the past when there were no halogen lamps involved.

You fuckwit, lying POS.


.... Phil

[Phil Allison]

The Peter Wieck bullshit artist wrote:

-------------------------------------------

( snil pil eof bollocks)

> Thanks to: David Burtner
>
> http://www.topbulb.com/blog/dimming-alters-halogen-cycle/
>

** Why on earth post that idiot article here???

It contains way more fiction than fact.

>
> It ain't nohow rocket science.
>
> Anyone with even a passing experience with lighting already knows all this -as well as even the lowliest sweeper at any given electrical supply house.

** Bollocks.

How many halogen down lights are in domestic use round the world?

The vast majority are being used with dimmers.

Uses get several times more life by doing so.

Burtner is a bullshitting fool.

Like you.



.... Phil

[John Robertson]

> ..... Phil
>

Well, I must confess I've never studied halogen bulbs on dimmers but
reading Lutron's site does not give any concerns from them about
halogens on dimmers in household use:

http://www.lutron.com/en-US/Education-Training/Pages/LCE/DimmingBasics.aspx

I would like to assume that you are correct, Phil. One problem though -
your reference source says:

"With a reduced voltage the evaporation is lower and there may be too
much halogen, which can lead to abnormal failure."

and also:

"There are many situations where halogen lamps are dimmed successfully.
However, lamp life may not be extended as much as predicted. The life
span on dimming depends on lamp construction, the halogen additive used
and whether dimming is normally expected for this type."

So, perhaps theatre halogen bulbs are designed to be dimmed?

http://stagelightingprimer.com/slfs-light_sources.html

Perhaps not, they don't mind of the bulb lasts a shorter time, but want
the brightness in a compact source.

Also, are house halogen bulbs designed to be dimmed?

Philips bulbs seem to be (perhaps...):

http://www.philips.ca/c-m-li/halogen-light-bulbs

"Halogen lamps are designed to operate at very high temperatures to
ensure optimal performance. Dimming at above 60% of the rated volts can
be done. It is recommended to revert to full brightness for one minute
prior to switching the lamps off."

In other words do not run them above 60% of rated line voltage for
extended times without heating/running them at 100% for one minute prior
to turning off. I am SURE everyone will do that!

A double blind test would be nice to put this to bed.

John :-#)#

[Phil Allison]

John-Delusional wrote:

---------------------------

>
>
> One more thing: if you look at a halogen lamp crosseyed the filament will
> fail from the shock of your stare.. The filaments are not supported as
> they are in a standard incandescent lamp so they must not be subject to
> shock or vibration.
>
>

** See pics of 150W halogen tube lamps:

http://www.destinationlighting.com/images/products_zoom/549/13549~zoom.jpg


http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/1000/b7/b7e4d552-8a07-4441-a54c-0c250efeef67_1000.jpg

https://images.musicstore.de/images/1600/omnilux-halogen-lamp-bulb-g-6-35-150-watts-24-volts_1_LIG0000456-000.jpg

How about a 1000W one:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/6174-2HVwIL._SL1500_.jpg




.... Phil

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Thursday, 29 June 2017 01:30:26 UTC+1, Phil Allison wrote:

> Ian Field wrote:

> > >> > That may be your belief. IRL halogen stage lighting works just fine.

snip

> > They don't get any dimmer than you - some stage lighting used variacs that
> > went up to 110%.
> >
>
> ** Long in the past when there were no halogen lamps involved.

Yes. I'm not sure how tolerant halogens would be of +10%.

> You fuckwit, lying POS.

no, just short on knowledge.


NT

[tabb...@gmail.com]

I fear you're taking a seller's waffle too seriously. Such things can be offloading liability and/or feigning expertise. The simple reality is halogens have been dimmed by all percentages in massive numbers and problems have not resulted. (I might feel like addressing the specific points raised another day.)


NT

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Thursday, 29 June 2017 02:36:55 UTC+1, Phil Allison wrote:

Both types exist, with supports & without.


NT

[Phil Allison]

John Robertson is a Google Monkey

-----------------------------------

>
> So, perhaps theatre halogen bulbs are designed to be dimmed?
>

** Perhaps your fat arse is on fire ?

Ever think of that?

> "Halogen lamps are designed to operate at very high temperatures to
> ensure optimal performance. Dimming at above 60% of the rated volts can
> be done. It is recommended to revert to full brightness for one minute
> prior to switching the lamps off."
>

** Drivel, not real information.

> In other words do not run them above 60% of rated line voltage for
> extended times without heating/running them at 100% for one minute prior
> to turning off. I am SURE everyone will do that!

** The false warning is about running halogen BELOW 60% rated voltage.

60% equates to about 10 to 15% of normal light output which is very dim.


BTW:

Ever see or use a halogen down light?

Standard practice is to run them off dimmers at any level you like.

Googling finds you every piece of misinformation that ever existed.



.... Phil

[Phil Allison]

tabb...@gmail.com wrote:

--------------------------

>
> You fuckwit, lying POS.
>
> no, just short on knowledge.
>
>

** Ian Field is a prize fuckwit, a congenital liar and a POS.

He makes facts up and uses false logic constantly.

He is clearly an autistic dim wit.

Just like thousands of other internet trolls.




..... Phil

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Thursday, 29 June 2017 03:23:20 UTC+1, Phil Allison wrote:

> tabby wrote:
>

> > You fuckwit, lying POS.
> >
> > no, just short on knowledge.
>
> ** Ian Field is a prize fuckwit, a congenital liar and a POS.
>
> He makes facts up and uses false logic constantly.
>
> He is clearly an autistic dim wit.
>
> Just like thousands of other internet trolls.

That interpretation is partly why you get so angry over so little.


NT

[John-Del]

Here Phallusun, read this:

http://www.gelighting.com/LightingWeb/apac/images/GE-Avoiding-Hot-Shock-Halogen-HIR_tcm281-33642.pdf


Since this is not on Wikipedia (your go-to source of your "knowledge"), you might learn something about halogen and rough service. And when you're done reading it, print it out several dozen copies, roll them up and stick them firmly up you ass where it might do the rest of us some good. How many newsgroups do you have to pollute with your anal emanations before you realize that it's YOU.

[Phil Allison]

tabb...@gmail.com wrote:

----------------------------

Phil Allison wrote:
> > tabby wrote:
> >
>
> > > You fuckwit, lying POS.
> > >
> > > no, just short on knowledge.
> >
> > ** Ian Field is a prize fuckwit, a congenital liar and a POS.
> >
> > He makes facts up and uses false logic constantly.
> >
> > He is clearly an autistic dim wit.
> >
> > Just like thousands of other internet trolls.
>

> That interpretation ...
>
>

** It ain't no "interpretation" - pal.

Field is a public menace on usenet and elsewhere too, I bet.

FYI:

I do not get angry, that is YOUR misinterpretation.

But I reserve the RIGHT to publicly out and thoroughly condemn
bullshit artists and trolls.

Seems YOU have trouble even identifying them.



.... Phil

[Phil Allison]

John-Delusional Fuckwit wrote:

---------------------------------

> > >
> > >
> > > One more thing: if you look at a halogen lamp crosseyed the filament will
> > > fail from the shock of your stare.. The filaments are not supported as
> > > they are in a standard incandescent lamp so they must not be subject to
> > > shock or vibration.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ** See pics of 150W halogen tube lamps:
> >
> > http://www.destinationlighting.com/images/products_zoom/549/13549~zoom.jpg
> >
> >
> > http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/1000/b7/b7e4d552-8a07-4441-a54c-0c250efeef67_1000.jpg
> >
> > https://images.musicstore.de/images/1600/omnilux-halogen-lamp-bulb-g-6-35-150-watts-24-volts_1_LIG0000456-000.jpg
> >
> > How about a 1000W one:
> >
> > http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/6174-2HVwIL._SL1500_.jpg
> >
>
>

> http://www.gelighting.com/LightingWeb/apac/images/GE-Avoiding-Hot-Shock-Halogen-HIR_tcm281-33642.pdf
>
>

** You can see the links to several pics that I posted ?

All of them show halogen tube lamps with multiple filament supports.

They are real pics published by folk who make and sell the lamps.

You can see them ??



Wot a fucking MORON.


..... Phil

[Phil Allison]

Phil Allison wrote:

----------------------

** Here is a Sylvania 42W halogen replacement for a standard GLS bulb:

https://media.tradezone.com.au/images/still/650/650/18579/30.jpg

Note how the filament passes over a glass support bridge at the top of the small envelope. Most of the filament is coiled but the section over the bridge is not.


.... Phil

[John Robertson]

On 2017/06/28 6:58 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
> John Robertson is a Google Monkey
>
> -----------------------------------
>
>>
>> So, perhaps theatre halogen bulbs are designed to be dimmed?
>>
>
> ** Perhaps your fat arse is on fire ?
>
> Ever think of that?

Not sure what that has to do with the question raised by your source
(wikipedia) where the point was raised that theatre lighting had their
own expectations about the use of halogen bulbs.

>
>
>
>> "Halogen lamps are designed to operate at very high temperatures to
>> ensure optimal performance. Dimming at above 60% of the rated volts can
>> be done. It is recommended to revert to full brightness for one minute
>> prior to switching the lamps off."
>>
>
> ** Drivel, not real information.
>

Excuse me Phil, but I was quoting from YOUR wikipedia reference source,
not mine.

>
>> In other words do not run them above 60% of rated line voltage for
>> extended times without heating/running them at 100% for one minute prior
>> to turning off. I am SURE everyone will do that!
>
>
> ** The false warning is about running halogen BELOW 60% rated voltage.

Not the same thing, they are using the word above to mean above 60% of
rated voltage, not below 60% rated voltage. At least that was how I read
your source - the wikipedia article quoted by you in previous email.
Which I read.

>
> 60% equates to about 10 to 15% of normal light output which is very dim.
>
>
> BTW:
>
> Ever see or use a halogen down light?
>
> Standard practice is to run them off dimmers at any level you like.

Of course, people will do whatever they like - that was not the
question. The original question was was it a good idea to run halogen
lights on dimmers and would it adversely affect their rated life span.

>
> Googling finds you every piece of misinformation that ever existed.
>

> ..... Phil
>

You may be an excellent designer of electronics, but are you a halogen
lighting expert too? Or are you (like me) just putting forward opinion
based on personal research and/or anecdotal experiences? This is
supposed to be a learning tool for all concerned after all, is it not?

John

[Phil Allison]

John Robertson is a Moronic Google Monkey

-----------------------------------------

>
>
>
> >> So, perhaps theatre halogen bulbs are designed to be dimmed?
> >>
> >
> > ** Perhaps your fat arse is on fire ?
> >
> > Ever think of that?
>
> Not sure what that has to do with the question raised by your source
>

** It was not my "source" - fool.

> (wikipedia) where the point was raised that theatre lighting had their
> own expectations about the use of halogen bulbs.

** Says nothing like that.

Quote, do not rephrase.

>>
> >> "Halogen lamps are designed to operate at very high temperatures to
> >> ensure optimal performance. Dimming at above 60% of the rated volts can
> >> be done. It is recommended to revert to full brightness for one minute
> >> prior to switching the lamps off."
> >>
> >
> > ** Drivel, not real information.
> >
>
> Excuse me Phil,
>

** Never.

> but I was quoting from YOUR wikipedia reference source,

** That is NOT from any Wiki.

Some industry crap YOU dragged up Google monkeying.

Do pay attention.

> >> In other words do not run them above 60% of rated line voltage for
> >> extended times without heating/running them at 100% for one minute prior
> >> to turning off. I am SURE everyone will do that!
> >
> >
> > ** The false warning is about running halogen BELOW 60% rated voltage.
>
> Not the same thing,
>
>

** FFS - you are illiterate & stupid.

> > 60% equates to about 10 to 15% of normal light output which is very dim.
> >
> >
> > BTW:
> >
> > Ever see or use a halogen down light?
> >
> > Standard practice is to run them off dimmers at any level you like.
>
>
> Of course, people will do whatever they like - that was not the
> question.
>

** But it is the answer to the question - you fool.

> The original question was was it a good idea to run halogen
> lights on dimmers and would it adversely affect their rated life span.

** And we have overwhelming proof there is no such problem from the MILLIONS of householders successfully doing it every day.

Are you blind by any chance?

> > Googling finds you every piece of misinformation that ever existed.
> >

** Copy out the above line 1000 times before you go to bed.

>
> You may be an excellent designer of electronics, but are you a halogen
> lighting expert too?
>

** Yep, some of my customers own large lighting rigs using mainly 500W and 1000W halogen lamps. I get to service their dimmers and boards and see the lamps operating too.

Halogen lamps are used in slide projectors, bought one of them in 1976.

One of my workshop lamps uses is a 150W halogen tube, I get to replace it every once in a while. 12V down lights are all halogen.

The buggers are all around me so I take a strong interest.

Go away, fool.


...... Phil

[John-Del]

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Thursday, 29 June 2017 04:11:09 UTC+1, Phil Allison wrote:
> tabby wrote:
> Phil Allison wrote:
> > > tabby wrote:
> > >
> >
> > > > You fuckwit, lying POS.
> > > >
> > > > no, just short on knowledge.
> > >
> > > ** Ian Field is a prize fuckwit, a congenital liar and a POS.
> > >
> > > He makes facts up and uses false logic constantly.
> > >
> > > He is clearly an autistic dim wit.
> > >
> > > Just like thousands of other internet trolls.
> >
> > That interpretation ...
> >
> >
>
> ** It ain't no "interpretation" - pal.

then nothing will change

[Phil Allison]

tabb...@gmail.com wrote:

Really N.Thornton.

----------------------------

>
> > > >
> > > > ** Ian Field is a prize fuckwit, a congenital liar and a POS.
> > > >
> > > > He makes facts up and uses false logic constantly.
> > > >
> > > > He is clearly an autistic dim wit.
> > > >
> > > > Just like thousands of other internet trolls.
> > >
> > > That interpretation ...
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ** It ain't no "interpretation" - pal.
>
>
> then nothing will change
>
>

** The only clear thing is that YOU will not change.

Because you lack the capacity for any kind of self improvement.


BTW:

You never did explain why you tried to defend the criminal arseholes who were selling fake and useless Motorola power transistors ?

I accused you of involvement cos no other explanation seemed possible.

The you failed to explain your actual reason.

Were you involved ?

Or just being a total shithead, like now ?



..... Phil

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Thursday, 29 June 2017 12:22:20 UTC+1, Phil Allison wrote:
> tabby:

>
> Really N.Thornton.
>
> ----------------------------
>
> >
> > > > >
> > > > > ** Ian Field is a prize fuckwit, a congenital liar and a POS.
> > > > >
> > > > > He makes facts up and uses false logic constantly.
> > > > >
> > > > > He is clearly an autistic dim wit.
> > > > >
> > > > > Just like thousands of other internet trolls.
> > > >
> > > > That interpretation ...
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > ** It ain't no "interpretation" - pal.
> >
> >
> > then nothing will change
> >
> >
>
>
> ** The only clear thing is that YOU will not change.
>
> Because you lack the capacity for any kind of self improvement.

this is supposed to make you look sane?

> BTW:
>
> You never did explain why you tried to defend the criminal arseholes who were selling fake and useless Motorola power transistors ?
>
> I accused you of involvement cos no other explanation seemed possible.
>
> The you failed to explain your actual reason.
>
> Were you involved ?
>
> Or just being a total shithead, like now ?

Sometimes you're just bizarre. In case you actually are that confused, which is hard to believe, I have never been involved in producing or selling fake transistors or any other fake parts.


NT

[Phil Allison]

tabb...@gmail.com wrote:

Really N.Thornton.

----------------------------


>>>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ** Ian Field is a prize fuckwit, a congenital liar and a POS.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > He makes facts up and uses false logic constantly.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > He is clearly an autistic dim wit.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Just like thousands of other internet trolls.
> > > > >
> > > > > That interpretation ...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > ** It ain't no "interpretation" - pal.
> > >
> > >
> > > then nothing will change
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > ** The only clear thing is that YOU will not change.
> >
> > Because you lack the capacity for any kind of self improvement.
>
>
>

> > BTW:
> >
> > You never did explain why you tried to defend the criminal arseholes
> > who were selling fake and useless Motorola power transistors ?
> >
> > I accused you of involvement cos no other explanation seemed possible.
> >
> > The you failed to explain your actual reason.
> >
> > Were you involved ?
> >
> > Or just being a total shithead, like now ?
>
>
> Sometimes you're just bizarre.
>

** Mostly I make more good sense that you care or are able to acknowledge.

> In case you actually are that confused, which is hard to believe,
> I have never been involved in producing or selling fake transistors
> or any other fake parts.
>
>

** Good, I believe you.

Then explain what made you think it was clever to defend those who did ?

It was done over several posts and you were smug as hell about it.

There is nothing the *iniest bit funny* about Asian and US based criminals ripping off keen electronics hobbyists and honest repair industry folk like me.

Over to you...........


.... Phil

[pf...@aol.com]

....honest repair industry folk like me.


In the case of Mr. I-am-never-wrong Allison, the above is a contradiction-in-terms.

[Phil Allison]

pf...@aol.com wrote:

The Peter Wieck Ratbag Troll
------------------------------------

>
> ....honest repair industry folk like me.
>
>
> In the case of Mr. I-am-never-wrong Allison,
>

** Unlike the trolling, never right Wieck troll.

>
> the above is a contradiction-in-terms.
>

** That's low and very nasty.

You have no cause to infer dishonesty.

Wot a lying, fucking prick you are.

> Peter Wieck
> Melrose Park, PA
>

** And he stinks the place right up.



.... Phil

[John-Del]

On Wednesday, June 28, 2017 at 11:24:19 PM UTC-4, Phil Allison wrote:
> John-Delusional Fuckwit wrote:
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > One more thing: if you look at a halogen lamp crosseyed the filament will
> > > > fail from the shock of your stare.. The filaments are not supported as
> > > > they are in a standard incandescent lamp so they must not be subject to
> > > > shock or vibration.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > ** See pics of 150W halogen tube lamps:
> > >
> > > http://www.destinationlighting.com/images/products_zoom/549/13549~zoom.jpg
> > >
> > >
> > > http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/1000/b7/b7e4d552-8a07-4441-a54c-0c250efeef67_1000.jpg
> > >
> > > https://images.musicstore.de/images/1600/omnilux-halogen-lamp-bulb-g-6-35-150-watts-24-volts_1_LIG0000456-000.jpg
> > >
> > > How about a 1000W one:
> > >
> > > http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/6174-2HVwIL._SL1500_.jpg
> > >
> >
> >
> > http://www.gelighting.com/LightingWeb/apac/images/GE-Avoiding-Hot-Shock-Halogen-HIR_tcm281-33642.pdf
> >
> >
>

Phallus'n emanated the following from his bunghole:

>
> They are real pics published by folk who make and sell the lamps.
>

General Electric is one of the largest manufacturers of all kinds of lighting on the planet. Strangely, most folks who are not confined to an insane asylum would believe technical information from General Electric over some two-bit self aggrandized "technician" such as yourself.

This is what General Electric says about the subject:

"Unlike incandescent rough service or vibration service lamps, Halogen and HIR lamps are not equipped with filament supports because they would result in the de-rating of the life and lumens, and thusly defeat the purpose of providing extremely long life, energy savings and high lumen output. These features differentiate Halogen and HIR lamps from similar incandescent counterparts. However, these high performance lamps require more consideration and education when installing and aiming them."

Anyone who ever tried to use halogen lamps in portable clamp lights know they will be lucky to survive one minor bump, whereas even conventional incandescent lamps will survive several, and rough service incandescent lamps are extraordinarily tough.

GE says your wrong Phil. Everyone here *knows* you're a Wiki jockey. Do usenet a big favor and go back to fixing toasters and coffee makers and stop pretending to be playing with the big boys. Oh yeah, clean your trailer of roaches while you're at it...

https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/sci.electronics.repair/YcNfjgMv6zw%5B1-25%5D

[pf...@aol.com]

** That's low and very nasty.

You have no cause to infer dishonesty.

Sorry. That is entirely accurate, and I have every right to infer dishonesty.

You cannot admit to any level of 'wrongness'. If you cannot be honest with yourself, you cannot be honest with others. Full stop,

[Phil Allison]

John-Del is Delusional wrote:

-------------------------------

>>>>>>
> > > >
> > > > ** See pics of 150W halogen tube lamps:
> > > >
> > > > http://www.destinationlighting.com/images/products_zoom/549/13549~zoom.jpg
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/1000/b7/b7e4d552-8a07-4441-a54c-0c250efeef67_1000.jpg
> > > >
> > > > https://images.musicstore.de/images/1600/omnilux-halogen-lamp-bulb-g-6-35-150-watts-24-volts_1_LIG0000456-000.jpg
> > > >
> > > > How about a 1000W one:
> > > >
> > > > http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/6174-2HVwIL._SL1500_.jpg
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > http://www.gelighting.com/LightingWeb/apac/images/GE-Avoiding-Hot-Shock-Halogen-HIR_tcm281-33642.pdf
> > >
> > >
> >

> > They are real pics published by folk who make and sell the lamps.
> >
>
>
> General Electric is one of the largest manufacturers of all kinds of lighting on the planet. Strangely, most folks who are not confined to an insane asylum would believe technical information from General Electric over some two-bit self aggrandized "technician" such as yourself.

>>
>>
>

** Fact id, I never posted a word on the topic - just a few pics that spoke for themselves.

Seems Mr Dell simply cannot see them.

Or prefers not to.

>
> This is what General Electric says about the subject:
>

** Yep, and GE are speaking only of their own products.

Not any others.

>
> GE says your wrong Phil.
>

** I never posted a word on the topic.

Just pics that cannot be denied.

> Everyone here *knows* you're a Wiki jockey.

** That would appear to be what you are.

Another Google Monkey with no brains.


BTW:

This guy is on something illegal for sure.



.... Phil

[Phil Allison]

pf...@aol.com wrote:

The Peter Wieck Fuckwit Troll

----------------------------------

>
>
> ** That's low and very nasty.
>
> You have no cause to infer dishonesty.
>
>
> Sorry. That is entirely accurate, and I have every right to infer dishonesty.
>

** You have in fact none at all - fuckhead.

> You cannot admit to any level of 'wrongness'.
>

** You have never shown me to be actually wrong.

OTOH, I have made you look like an idiot countless times.

A very easy thing to do.

> If you cannot be honest with yourself,
>
>

** That is your major failing - Peter.

You are incapable of seeing your own foolishness.

Narcissistic, autistic geriatrics never can.

They just repeat the exact same errors till they drop dead.

I hope & expect that will not take too long with you.




..... Phil

[rickman]

Interesting link. Not only does he have roaches, he seems to be a serial
WD-40 abuser. He likely started with isopropyl alcohol as a gateway cleaner
and worked his way up through commercial contact cleaners and pencil eraser
tips before using the "hard" stuff. Where's Jack Webb when you need him?

--

Rick C

[John-Del]

On Thursday, June 29, 2017 at 10:21:54 AM UTC-4, Phallus'n belched:

>
> ** You have never shown me to be actually wrong.
>

We don't need to go to far, you're wrong on this thread.

> ** That is your major failing - Peter.
>

There are so few humans alive with your bouquet of human failures Phil, not the least the ability to recognize yourself in your accusations of others.


**You are incapable of seeing your own foolishness.


Pot; meet Kettle...

You are incapable of not only seeing your own foolishness, but any of your many other human failings including (but certainly not limited to) your hateful vile demeanor. You've infested many NGs with your stench and you don't realize it's coming from you. Every newsgroup you pollute becomes something less for your involvement.

You're the only one here who doesn't see that Peter is a gentleman and quality human being. Everyone else sees you as a piece of shit who clearly has been abusing WD40 propellant. Don't you have a toaster to rewire?

[rickman]

Do you also make fun of homeless people on the street and other mentally ill
people? Why pick on Phil. It's not like he has any control over his posts.
Clearly he is ill and needs our support, not reproach.

--

Rick C

[John-Del]

Admonitions understood. I am ashamed. Thanks for that slap in the face Rick!

[Ian Field]

"John Robertson" <sp...@flippers.com> wrote in message
news:PvydnV7BQ6b-xMnE...@giganews.com...
> On 2017/06/26 9:52 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
>> John Robertson wrote:
>>
>> ----------------------
>>
>>>
>>> When they are RUN at the rated voltage and power. If you dim them the
>>> tungsten is deposited on the quartz and short of heating the quarts to
>>> white hot (above poster's remarks) the tungsten is going to STAY on the
>>> quartz, not recoating on the filament.
>>>
>>> http://www.topbulb.com/blog/dimming-alters-halogen-cycle/
>>>
>>>
>> ** That is merely one person's opinion, not backed up with evidence.
>>
>> Wiki says differently :
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halogen_lamp#Effect_of_voltage_on_performance
>>
>> Stage lighting uses dimming all the time with halogen lamps and there is
>> no blackening or short life experienced - the lamps run much longer as
>> expected.
>>
>> The claim that the "halogen cycle" puts metal back on the filament is
>> true but it does not deposit it back where it came from so has little
>> effect on lamp life.
>>
>> Most halogen lamps are low voltage or high powered - so in both cases the
>> filaments are thicker than typical non halogen examples.
>>
>> Having a thick filament makes a halogen lamp last longer.
>>
>>
>>
>> ..... Phil
>>
>
> Well, I must confess I've never studied halogen bulbs on dimmers but
> reading Lutron's site does not give any concerns from them about halogens
> on dimmers in household use:

It seems fairly obvious that a dimmed filament doesn't gas off much
tungsten.

Ordinary bulbs above a certain rating are banned and have been replaced by
halogen capsules enclosed in a regular globe envelope.

So far; I've not seen any dimmable CFLs on the shelves and LED bulbs are
probably more tricky. The packaged halogen capsules are the easy way out if
you want a dimmer.

[pf...@aol.com]

https://www.1000bulbs.com/category/dimmable-cfl-compact-fluorescents/

They exist, our local Home Depot stocks them. Personally, I do not use them. If I need dimming, I use an LED.

[pf...@aol.com]

Don't feel bad. When approached by an aggressive panhandler, I take this approach, 100% of the time:

You empty your pockets (I get to search), and I will empty mine (you get to search). Whatever we find, we split it right down the middle.

In well over 100 offers of this sort, I have never once had a taker.

[Phil Allison]

John-Del is Deranged:

> >
> > ** You have never shown me to be actually wrong.
> >
>
> We don't need to go to far, you're wrong on this thread.
>

** No one tiny bit.

OTOH you have ignored many photos that prove you wrong beyond any doubt.


FYI out there:

Delusional Del is an obvious lunatic and congenital asshole.



..... Phil

[Phil Allison]

pf...@aol.com wrote:

The Wieck troll

> https://www.1000bulbs.com/category/dimmable-cfl-compact-fluorescents/
>
> They exist, our local Home Depot stocks them.
> Personally, I do not use them.
> If I need dimming, I use an LED.
>

** Dimmable CFLs require a special dimmer, not the standard triac kind.

LED lamps have the same issue, most of them are "non-dimmable" and the rest need a similar, special dimmer.

OTOH, if you have a spare Variac lying around, it will dim most CFLs rather well and LEDs not so well.



..... Phil

[John-Del]

On Thursday, June 29, 2017 at 8:55:23 PM UTC-4, Phil Allison wrote:
> John-Del is Deranged:
>
>
> > >
> > > ** You have never shown me to be actually wrong.
> > >
> >
> > We don't need to go to far, you're wrong on this thread.
> >
>
> ** No one tiny bit.
>
> OTOH you have ignored many photos that prove you wrong beyond any doubt.
>

Those photos only prove you don't know what you're looking at. Those filaments have not nearly enough support to render those halogen lamps as sturdy as standard incandescents. Filaments that run that hot need more support per given length.

General Electric says this:

"Unlike incandescent rough service or vibration service lamps, Halogen and HIR lamps are not equipped with filament supports because they would result in the de-rating of the life and lumens, and thusly defeat the purpose of providing extremely long life, energy savings and high lumen output. These features differentiate Halogen and HIR lamps from similar incandescent counterparts."

Phallus'n says this: I'm right and if you don't agree with me you're an autistic deranged fuckwit who should kill himself!!!

Are you that delusional where you think anybody reading this NG would possibly agree with you Phil?

I would suggest you take that toaster you're rebuilding and modifying and take it in the bathtub with you (plugged in), but since your trailer is so roach infested I doubt you even know what a bathtub is.

[Phil Allison]

John-Del is Totally Deranged:

-----------------------------------

>
> >
> > > >
> > > > ** You have never shown me to be actually wrong.
> > > >
> > >
> > > We don't need to go to far, you're wrong on this thread.
> > >
> >
> > ** No one tiny bit.
> >
> > OTOH you have ignored many photos that prove you wrong beyond any doubt.
> >
>
> Those photos only prove you don't know what you're looking at.
>

** They prove you and GE wrong.

> Those filaments have not nearly enough support to render those halogen
> lamps as sturdy as standard incandescents.

** Del is now *desperately* trying to change the subject.

Cos he is a congenital, lying POS.

FYI to all:

Halogen tube lamps have sufficient internal supports to allow them to be used in portable work lights and similar jobs.

>
> General Electric says this:
>
> "Unlike incandescent rough service or vibration service lamps, Halogen and HIR lamps are not equipped with filament supports because they would result in the de-rating of the life and lumens, and thusly defeat the purpose of providing extremely long life, energy savings and high lumen output. These features differentiate Halogen and HIR lamps from similar incandescent counterparts."
>

** GE sell identical looking halogen tube lamps, with similar multiple supports.

http://www.gelighting.com/LightingWeb/emea/images/Halogen_DEQ_and_IR_DEQ_Lamps_Data_sheet_EN_tcm181-12726.pdf

> Phallus'n says this: I'm right and if you don't agree with me you're
> an autistic deranged fuckwit who should kill himself!!!
>

** Yep - you are very much one of them.

A dangerous lunatic in anyone's book.




..... Phil

[rickman]

The problem with Phil is not that he rants and raves like a lunatic. The
problem is that people not only read his posts, they take them seriously as
if they *weren't* written by a deranged sociopath and respond! The
resulting conversations are *NEVER* productive resulting in a tirade of
insults and imbecilic retorts that demonstrate only the extent of his mental
illness. The conversations rage on with no useful content until everyone
finally tires of the insanity of it all and gives up the attempts at
rational discourse. Some people take longer than others.

--

Rick C

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Thursday, 29 June 2017 12:51:44 UTC+1, Phil Allison wrote:

> tabby wrote:

> > Sometimes you're just bizarre.
>
> ** Mostly I make more good sense that you care or are able to acknowledge.
>
>
> > In case you actually are that confused, which is hard to believe,
> > I have never been involved in producing or selling fake transistors
> > or any other fake parts.
>
> ** Good, I believe you.
>
> Then explain what made you think it was clever to defend those who did ?
>
> It was done over several posts and you were smug as hell about it.
>
> There is nothing the *iniest bit funny* about Asian and US based criminals ripping off keen electronics hobbyists and honest repair industry folk like me.
>
> Over to you...........
>
>
> .... Phil

Sometimes I'm not sure which planet you're from. I do not encourage, agree with or assist criminals who fake parts or deal in fake parts. Never have.

Component procurement in what I do is however utterly different to how probably all of you get parts, and I suspect a large misunderstanding to have arisen from that.


NT

[tabb...@gmail.com]

Phil certainly has his problems but he's right on this one.


NT

[Ian Field]

<pf...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:f77e28fb-0aa9-4f70...@googlegroups.com...

> https://www.1000bulbs.com/category/dimmable-cfl-compact-fluorescents/
>
> They exist, our local Home Depot stocks them. Personally, I do not use
> them. If I need dimming, I use an LED.

Some LED bulbs are switch mode, usually flyback AFAICT. They are pretty much
the same as CFLs on a triac dimmer.

Most cheaper LED bulbs are wattless-dropper - I haven't bothered trying any
on a dimmer.

I've seen data sheets for PFC front end CFL and LED driver chips - but no
products on the shelves so far.

[pf...@aol.com]

On Friday, June 30, 2017 at 2:00:04 PM UTC-4, Ian Field wrote:

> Some LED bulbs are switch mode, usually flyback AFAICT. They are pretty much
> the same as CFLs on a triac dimmer.

http://creebulb.com/bulbfinder

We use Cree lamps where we need dimming, and in general if replacements. We still have some few legacy LED lamps in place (stuff that came-with other stuff), but we do not intend to dim those.

NOTE: some cheap LED lamps are very noisy in the RF range. VERY noisy, approaching that of an unshielded ignition transformer (oil burner).

[John-Del]

On Friday, June 30, 2017 at 11:38:41 AM UTC-4, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, 29 June 2017 15:01:15 UTC+1, John-Del wrote:
> > On Wednesday, June 28, 2017 at 11:24:19 PM UTC-4, Phil Allison wrote:
> > > John-Delusional Fuckwit wrote:
>
> > > > > > One more thing: if you look at a halogen lamp crosseyed the filament will
> > > > > > fail from the shock of your stare.. The filaments are not supported as
> > > > > > they are in a standard incandescent lamp so they must not be subject to
> > > > > > shock or vibration.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ** See pics of 150W halogen tube lamps:
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.destinationlighting.com/images/products_zoom/549/13549~zoom.jpg
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/1000/b7/b7e4d552-8a07-4441-a54c-0c250efeef67_1000.jpg
> > > > >
> > > > > https://images.musicstore.de/images/1600/omnilux-halogen-lamp-bulb-g-6-35-150-watts-24-volts_1_LIG0000456-000.jpg
> > > > >
> > > > > How about a 1000W one:
> > > > >
> > > > > http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/6174-2HVwIL._SL1500_.jpg
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > http://www.gelighting.com/LightingWeb/apac/images/GE-Avoiding-Hot-Shock-Halogen-HIR_tcm281-33642.pdf
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> > Phallus'n emanated the following from his bunghole:
> >
> > >
> > > They are real pics published by folk who make and sell the lamps.
> > >
> >
> > General Electric is one of the largest manufacturers of all kinds of lighting on the planet. Strangely, most folks who are not confined to an insane asylum would believe technical information from General Electric over some two-bit self aggrandized "technician" such as yourself.
> >
> > This is what General Electric says about the subject:
> >
> > "Unlike incandescent rough service or vibration service lamps, Halogen and HIR lamps are not equipped with filament supports because they would result in the de-rating of the life and lumens, and thusly defeat the purpose of providing extremely long life, energy savings and high lumen output. These features differentiate Halogen and HIR lamps from similar incandescent counterparts. However, these high performance lamps require more consideration and education when installing and aiming them."
> >
> > Anyone who ever tried to use halogen lamps in portable clamp lights know they will be lucky to survive one minor bump, whereas even conventional incandescent lamps will survive several, and rough service incandescent lamps are extraordinarily tough.
> >
> > GE says your wrong Phil.
>

> Phil certainly has his problems but he's right on this one.
>
>
> NT

Okay, that's two that think they're right and General Electric is wrong. Not sure if that constitutes a consensus or not...

Hehehe......

[pf...@aol.com]

When dealing with closely held beliefs, revealed religion and pronouncements from burning bushes, only war will determine what is 'truth' - and only insofar as the winner writes the history books.

Keep in mind the 'simple truth' of Evolution:

In the United States:

19% believe in Evolution.
34% believe in pure creationism.
25% believe in 'directed evolution'.
The rest have no opinion.

And the US is by no means any different than the rest of the world in its beliefs.

So, something as esoteric as lamp filaments... you get the picture.

[John Robertson]

Make filaments GREAT again!

(ducking)

John

[tabb...@gmail.com]

CR supplies used in some LEDs burn up on dimmers or MSW inverters. The voltage steps cause current pulses that increase resistor P_diss massively. They dim perfectly on variacs - but probably no-one uses variac dimmers now.

I suppose in principle a mosfet dimmer could switch off & on at the same voltage each side of the peak, and thus work ok with CR PSU LEDs, but I've not heard of such dimmers - not been looking for any dimmers for years though.


NT

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Friday, 30 June 2017 20:50:02 UTC+1, John-Del wrote:

> On Friday, June 30, 2017 at 11:38:41 AM UTC-4, tabby wrote:

> > Phil certainly has his problems but he's right on this one.
>

> Okay, that's two that think they're right and General Electric is wrong. Not sure if that constitutes a consensus or not...
>
> Hehehe......

way more than 2. If you've not met promotional literature that makes claims that don't add up, I don't know where you've been hiding.


NT

[Phil Allison]

tabb...@gmail.com wrote:

-------------------------------

>
>
> > > Sometimes you're just bizarre.
> >
> > ** Mostly I make more good sense that you care or are able to acknowledge.
> >
> >
> > > In case you actually are that confused, which is hard to believe,
> > > I have never been involved in producing or selling fake transistors
> > > or any other fake parts.
> >
> > ** Good, I believe you.
> >
> > Then explain what made you think it was clever to defend those who did ?
> >
> > It was done over several posts and you were smug as hell about it.
> >
> > There is nothing the *iniest bit funny* about Asian and US based criminals ripping off keen electronics hobbyists and honest repair industry folk like me.
> >
> > Over to you...........
> >

>

> Sometimes I'm not sure which planet you're from. I do not encourage,
> agree with or assist criminals who fake parts or deal in fake parts.
> Never have.
>

** Your posts on SED a few year back re fake Motorola power BJTs were bizarre.

> Component procurement in what I do is however utterly different to
> how probably all of you get parts,
>

** What the hell does *that* mean ???

Thornton is definitely "covering up" here.

If Google has it, I will repost what NT said on SED.


.... Phil

[Phil Allison]

tabb...@gmail.com wrote:

------------------------------

>
> way more than 2. If you've not met promotional literature that makes
> claims that don't add up, I don't know where you've been hiding.
>
>

** And that is all it is - a *blurb* written hastily by some anonymous staffer using half baked information and expressed carelessly.

Problem is, the internet preseves it indefinitely when it once would have been consigned to the round filing cabinet.

Next Google's " finds needles in a haystacks " search algorithm homes in on it cos it contain a key term.

Then some dopey Google Monkey treats it like the word of god.


..... Phil

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Saturday, 1 July 2017 01:14:06 UTC+1, Phil Allison wrote:

I see you're being more idiot than I expected.

[Phil Allison]

tabb...@gmail.com wrote:

-------------------------------

> >
> > >
> >
> > ** Your posts on SED a few year back re fake Motorola power
> > BJTs were bizarre.
> >
> >
> > > Component procurement in what I do is however utterly different to
> > > how probably all of you get parts,
> > >
> >
> > ** What the hell does *that* mean ???
> >
> > Thornton is definitely "covering up" here.
> >
> > If Google has it, I will repost what NT said on SED.
> >
> >
>

> I see you're being more idiot than I expected.
>
>

** Yet again you have posted something completely mysterious about purchasing components. Doing that does not make you sound one bit clever, rather it does the exact opposite.

Makes YOU look a real idiot.


FYI:

Luckily for you, Google does not seem to have the previous SED thread available.



.... Phil

[rickman]

Phil Allison wrote on 6/30/2017 11:00 PM:
> tabb...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> -------------------------------
>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ** Your posts on SED a few year back re fake Motorola power
>>> BJTs were bizarre.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Component procurement in what I do is however utterly different to
>>>> how probably all of you get parts,
>>>>
>>>
>>> ** What the hell does *that* mean ???
>>>
>>> Thornton is definitely "covering up" here.
>>>
>>> If Google has it, I will repost what NT said on SED.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I see you're being more idiot than I expected.
>>
>>
>
> ** Yet again you have posted something completely mysterious about purchasing components. Doing that does not make you sound one bit clever, rather it does the exact opposite.
>
> Makes YOU look a real idiot.

When it comes to looking like a complete idiot, Phil knows what he is
talking about.

--

Rick C

[Phil Allison]

Prickman the Netstalker wrote:

------------------------------



** When it comes to looking a complete idiot, the Prickman is an expert.

It's his one and only talent.

He practices it regularly too.



.... Phil

[Ian Field]

<pf...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1d4be5ce-584f-4a77...@googlegroups.com...

Most of the cheap LED bulbs I've cracked open were wattless dropper - they
absorb a small amount of mains borne crap.

[Ian Field]

"John-Del" <ohg...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:044164d5-0fd2-4089...@googlegroups.com...

AFAIK: GE are still making jet engines - I think it was probably
Westinghouse that had to give it up as a bad job.

[Ian Field]

<pf...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:64fc4040-404f-404b...@googlegroups.com...

> When dealing with closely held beliefs, revealed religion and
> pronouncements from burning bushes, only war will determine what is
> 'truth' - and only insofar as the winner writes the history books.
>
> Keep in mind the 'simple truth' of Evolution:
>
> In the United States:
>
> 19% believe in Evolution.
> 34% believe in pure creationism.
> 25% believe in 'directed evolution'.
> The rest have no opinion.
>
> And the US is by no means any different than the rest of the world in its
> beliefs.

In the late 30s - the only Americans that GAF about the European war; wanted
to join the Axis.

The Jap attack on pearl just after Japan became the 3rd member of the Axis
is the only thing that changed their mind.

Just before that; America was doing military excercises in preparation for
an attack on parts of the British Empire.

[Ian Field]

<tabb...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:57c0918e-e2e0-496a...@googlegroups.com...

> On Thursday, 29 June 2017 12:51:44 UTC+1, Phil Allison wrote:
>> tabby wrote:
>
>> > Sometimes you're just bizarre.
>>
>> ** Mostly I make more good sense that you care or are able to
>> acknowledge.
>>
>>
>> > In case you actually are that confused, which is hard to believe,
>> > I have never been involved in producing or selling fake transistors
>> > or any other fake parts.
>>
>> ** Good, I believe you.
>>
>> Then explain what made you think it was clever to defend those who did ?
>>
>> It was done over several posts and you were smug as hell about it.
>>
>> There is nothing the *iniest bit funny* about Asian and US based
>> criminals ripping off keen electronics hobbyists and honest repair
>> industry folk like me.
>>
>> Over to you...........
>>
>>
>> .... Phil
>
> Sometimes I'm not sure which planet you're from.

There's ongoing debate as to whether it even has a
sky...........................

[Ian Field]

<tabb...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:57c0918e-e2e0-496a...@googlegroups.com...

Counterfeiting is less jail time than drug running - electronic component
isn't the only thing affected.

Pharmaceuticals, cosmetics, fashion, electronics - I can't think of anything
that isn't.

A few years back; a reputable supplier got lumbered with hundreds of
thousands of state of the art CPUs that turned out to be all package and no
silicon.

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Saturday, 1 July 2017 04:00:50 UTC+1, Phil Allison wrote:
> tabby wrote:

> > > ** Your posts on SED a few year back re fake Motorola power
> > > BJTs were bizarre.
> > >
> > >
> > > > Component procurement in what I do is however utterly different to
> > > > how probably all of you get parts,
> > > >
> > >
> > > ** What the hell does *that* mean ???
> > >
> > > Thornton is definitely "covering up" here.
> > >
> > > If Google has it, I will repost what NT said on SED.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > I see you're being more idiot than I expected.
> >
> >
>
> ** Yet again you have posted something completely mysterious about purchasing components. Doing that does not make you sound one bit clever, rather it does the exact opposite.
>
> Makes YOU look a real idiot.

Boy you love to spout on matters you truly know jack about.
Jim is right about you, I won't waste time explaining what I said.

> FYI:
>
> Luckily for you, Google does not seem to have the previous SED thread available.

Lol. My best guess is you made some bonkers accusations and I didn't waste any time discussing them with you. You are, some of the time, truly a loony. This notion of yours that I'm some master criminal is one more piece of your lunacy. And I have zero interest in what your reply is. Good bye, rejoin the nutjob filter. I really should leave you there.


NT

[Phil Allison]

tabb...@gmail.com wrote:

> Phil Allison wrote:
>
>
> > > > ** Your posts on SED a few year back re fake Motorola power
> > > > BJTs were bizarre.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Component procurement in what I do is however utterly different to
> > > > > how probably all of you get parts,
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > ** What the hell does *that* mean ???
> > > >
> > > > Thornton is definitely "covering up" here.
> > > >
> > > > If Google has it, I will repost what NT said on SED.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > I see you're being more idiot than I expected.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ** Yet again you have posted something completely mysterious about purchasing components. Doing that does not make you sound one bit clever, rather it does the exact opposite.
> >
> > Makes YOU look a real idiot.
>
>
> Boy you love to spout on matters you truly know jack about.
>

** YOU need to explain your self referencing posts cos they make no sense.

> Jim is right about you,

** You should explain that remark too.

> I won't waste time explaining what I said.
>

** That is a blatant lie.

You are being mysterious and deceitful.

> >
> > Luckily for you, Google does not seem to have the previous SED
> > thread available.
>
> Lol. My best guess is you made some bonkers accusations
>

** Your " best guess" is completely wrong.


The gist of your posts on SED was not to fuss over counterfeit Motorola power transistors - lots of products are cloned and faked by others and sold as genuine. Get used to it was the message.

I complained that that was a totally crazy messageonly someone INVOLVERD in the criminal trade would put forward in defence of what they were doing.

You then posted similar paranoid crapology to that appearing below:

--------------------------------------------------------------

and I didn't waste any time discussing them with you. You are, some of the time, truly a loony. This notion of yours that I'm some master criminal is one more piece of your lunacy. And I have zero interest in what your reply is. Good bye, rejoin the nutjob filter. I really should leave you there.

---------------------------------------------------------------


Crazy stuff, completely nuts.



.... Phil

[Phil Allison]

Ian Field wrote:

-----------------------------------

>
>
> Counterfeiting is less jail time than drug running - electronic component
> isn't the only thing affected.
>
> Pharmaceuticals, cosmetics, fashion, electronics - I can't think of anything
> that isn't.
>
> A few years back; a reputable supplier got lumbered with hundreds of
> thousands of state of the art CPUs that turned out to be all package and no
> silicon.
>

>----------------------------------------------


** My colleague Rod Elliot ( of ESP ) and I spent considerable time investigating numerous fake transistors that were being sold over the counter here in Australia. Initially it was Motorola MJ15003s & MJ15004s used in amplifier kits and sold folk doing repairs.

I first saw examples back in 1980 from "Dick Smith Electronics" - who sold thousands of counterfeits that way - some to me. And again in 2000, purchased from a different source. The internet was put to good use by me and a friend to embarrass the company out of continuing.

DSE is no longer in business and so too are a couple of others that imported and sold fakes - however they are still on open sale here and all over eBay.

This article was prepared from information gleaned by myself and Rod.

http://sound.whsites.net/fake/counterfeit-p1.htm

http://sound.whsites.net/counterfeit.htm

For a long time now, it has not been safe to buy power BJTs from ANY small supplier or on line dealer - cos their stock consists MOSTLY of fakes.



..... Phil

[Ian Field]

"Phil Allison" <palli...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1278b8c5-45ee-4442...@googlegroups.com...

Big trusted suppliers get stung too.

There are very few dodgy little pharmaceutical distributors and the big boys
get hit just as hard. If they can't keep it clean - component suppliers
never will.

[Phil Allison]

** Responsible companies ( like Farnell, Digikey and RS Components ) make sure that all stock is traceable back to the factories that made them.

Semiconductor makers have networks of authorised dealers in each country and advise that you must buy from one of them to be certain you are getting genuine stuff.

Businesses who's semiconductor stock is full of fakes have no idea where any of it really came from and don't give a damn.

Grey market semiconductor dealers find Ebay accommodates them happily.


.... Phil

.... Phil