Why do lithium batteries explode?

[Mr. Man-wai Chang]

Source: http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-37255127

Samsung's decision to halt sales of the new Galaxy Note 7 because of
reports of battery explosions is an extraordinary step for a tech giant
to take.

The firm said it had identified a battery issue but did not elaborate.

But if a lithium-ion battery cell charges too quickly or a tiny
manufacturing error slips through the net it can result in a short
circuit - which can lead to fire.

One expert urged the industry to find safer alternatives to lithium.

"I think one should be concerned and push towards safer battery tech,"
said energy storage expert Professor Clare Grey from Cambridge University.

"That should be an important focus on research and industry development.

"While most manufacturing flaws will be picked up during initial
testing, it's not an infallible process."

However Prof Grey also said that people should not panic.

"I'm standing at an airport - every single person would have to stop
what they are doing if we took their batteries away from them," she said.

"We all take risks in our lives - we drive cars sitting on top of
flammable organic liquids. Other tech is coming along that is safer."
Common causes

There have only been 35 cases of the Galaxy Note 7 catching fire
reported worldwide following 2.5 million sales, Samsung says.

The lithium ion batteries used by Samsung are common across the tech
industry - so what makes them hazardous?

It's important to understand a little about how they work. Simply they
contain a cathode, an anode and lithium.

The cathode and anode are separated by an organic liquid called an
electrolyte and a porous material called the separator.

The lithium travels through the separator, within the liquid, between
the two.
Quick charge

If the battery charges too fast, generating heat, lithium plates form
around the anode which can create a short circuit.

"Normally you would have a battery management system that controls the
rate at which you charge," said Prof Grey.

"Batteries are optimised so that you don't charge too fast - if you do
that you will plate the lithium."

This is also why battery charging can be a frustratingly slow
experience, she added.

Other faults that can cause a short circuit include contamination by
tiny fragments of metal during the production process or minute holes in
the sealing, which might not become apparent until the battery has been
charged a few times as the materials expand and contract.

"The manufacturing has got a lot more standardised than it was 10 to 15
years ago," said Prof Grey.

However battery packs - combining battery cells to generate more power -
can be problematic and this is increasingly common. Batteries containing
12 cells, for example, are readily available for laptops.

"The more you put together, the higher the likelihood that some will
fail," she added.

"There are still flaws emerging but it's getting better. It is a
challenge - with so many being produced, you just need one error."
Signs to watch out for

There can be symptoms indicating that a battery is about to fail, said
support and repairs provider Geek Squad.

"Sometimes, a battery will start to swell and bulge before it fails
completely, as the internal cells rupture and break," it says on its
website.

"But the bulge doesn't always happen. If not, you might notice that your
device is a little warmer than usual - but let's be honest, our phones
get fairly warm during standard usage anyway."

The firm suggests disposing of any batteries displaying these signs.

--
@~@ Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch! Live long and prosper!!
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty!
/( _ )\ May the Force and farces be with you!
^ ^ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10) Linux 2.6.39.3
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[avag...@gmail.com]

misuse

[JJ]

On Sat, 3 Sep 2016 02:55:01 +0800, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
>
[snip]

Because of ignorance. What else?
Any battery would explode if its power is drained too fast.

[Black Iccy]

On Sat, 3 Sep 2016 02:55:01 +0800, "Mr. Man-wai Chang"

<toylet...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>Source: http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-37255127
>

Given his post address, accord him some credit guys.
He's learned how to cut-paste across 6 newsgroups.

[Mr. Man-wai Chang]

You expert all consumer buyers of rechargeable batteries to be experts? ;)

[Mr. Man-wai Chang]

On 3/09/16 08:53, avag...@gmail.com wrote:
> misuse

A word applicable to all products and services? ;)

[Mr. Man-wai Chang]

On 3/09/16 09:31, Black Iccy wrote:
>
> Given his post address, accord him some credit guys.
> He's learned how to cut-paste across 6 newsgroups.

I am merely sharing information in a public, open newsgroup, NOT trying
to win fame, glory and honor.

Find your Holy War in Vatican, not Usenet. :)

[T]

Last time Dell Laptop Lithium batteries caught fire , it
turned out to be metal shavings in the batteries: 3C (cheap,
chinese crap)

[JJ]

On Sat, 3 Sep 2016 16:37:42 +0800, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
> On 3/09/16 09:02, JJ wrote:
>> On Sat, 3 Sep 2016 02:55:01 +0800, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
>>>
>> [snip]
>>
>> Because of ignorance. What else?
>> Any battery would explode if its power is drained too fast.
>>
>
> You expert all consumer buyers of rechargeable batteries to be experts? ;)

Who said it's the consumers' ignorance?

Either way... Even if they're experts, the batteries will always explode if
it's drained too fast.

[Mr. Man-wai Chang]

On 3/09/16 19:37, JJ wrote:
>
> Who said it's the consumers' ignorance?
>
> Either way... Even if they're experts, the batteries will always explode if
> it's drained too fast.

Maybe we should stop shrinking the size of rechargeable batteries... :)

[MJC]

In article <1e3a4wmte62zv$.1lqpwsif...@40tude.net>,
jj4p...@vfemail.net says...

>
> On Sat, 3 Sep 2016 16:37:42 +0800, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
> > On 3/09/16 09:02, JJ wrote:
> >

> > You expect all consumer buyers of rechargeable batteries to be

experts? ;)
>
> Who said it's the consumers' ignorance?
>
> Either way... Even if they're experts, the batteries will always explode if
> it's drained too fast.

Even real engineers can apparently get it wrong:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_787_Dreamliner_battery_problems

Mike.

[Mr. Man-wai Chang]

On 3/09/16 22:25, MJC wrote:
>
> Even real engineers can apparently get it wrong:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_787_Dreamliner_battery_problems

Competence is a number, some bigger some smaller, while some are
pretending! :)

[Black Iccy]

On Sat, 3 Sep 2016 16:39:53 +0800, "Mr. Man-wai Chang"
<toylet...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>Find your Holy War in Vatican, not Usenet. :)

I'd expect nothing less from a toylet -)

[Shadow]

On Sat, 3 Sep 2016 22:25:25 +0800, "Mr. Man-wai Chang"
<toylet...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 3/09/16 19:37, JJ wrote:
>>
>> Who said it's the consumers' ignorance?
>>
>> Either way... Even if they're experts, the batteries will always explode if
>> it's drained too fast.
>
>Maybe we should stop shrinking the size of rechargeable batteries... :)

Just because you are using larger dildos does not mean
everyone else is. Hence the need for smaller batteries, or so I'm
told.
You cross-posted this to alt.comp.freeware because ?
OT up.
[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012

[Mr. Man-wai Chang]

On 4/09/16 20:27, Shadow wrote:
> You cross-posted this to alt.comp.freeware because ?
> OT up.

To remind more people... :)

[amdx]

I think it's Lithium just being Lithium.
Mikek

[p-0''0-h the cat (coder)]

On Mon, 5 Sep 2016 12:39:34 -0500, amdx <noj...@knology.net> wrote:

> I think it's Lithium just being Lithium.
> Mikek

Ha Ha.

Sent from my iFurryUnderbelly.

--
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Internet Terrorist, Mass sock puppeteer, Agent provocateur, Gutter rat,
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Certifiable criminal, Spineless cowardly scum, textbook Psychopath,
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Honorary SHYSTER and FRAUD awarded for services to Haberdashery.
By Appointment to God Frank-Lin.

Signature integrity check
md5 Checksum: be0b2a8c486d83ce7db9a459b26c4896

I mark any message from »Q« the troll as stinky

[John Robertson]

On 09/05/2016 10:39 AM, amdx wrote:
> I think it's Lithium just being Lithium.
> Mikek
>

" lithium is highly reactive and flammable."

John :-#)#

--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
(604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

[amdx]

On 9/5/2016 3:51 PM, John Robertson wrote:
> On 09/05/2016 10:39 AM, amdx wrote:
>> I think it's Lithium just being Lithium.
>> Mikek
>>
>
> " lithium is highly reactive and flammable."
>
> John :-#)#
>

That was my point.

Mikek

[Mr. Man-wai Chang]

On 6/09/16 23:03, amdx wrote:
>
> That was my point.

Most mortals don't know what lithium is and how it behaves. Mind to
summarize? :)

[Poutnik]

With a note that Li-ion/pol cell chemistry
( one of many cell chemistries based on lithium )
at normal circumstances does not contain free metallic lithium.

The neutral lithium atoms are intercalated
within the honeycomb plates of graphite electrode.

Only in case the cell is overcharged, the metallic lithium
eventually starts to deposit on the anode graphite surface.

Reaction rates of undesired exothermic side reactions increases,
involving namely with metal oxides of cathode
eventually the LiPF6 electrolytes
and organic carbonates R-O-CO-O-R'.

The carbonates are flameable liquid and combined with the lithium
cam make a hell from such damaged battery.

a notebook battery intentionally brought to critical damage point
can cause up to 2 m high violet and violent flame.

[Paul]

Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
> On 6/09/16 23:03, amdx wrote:
>>
>> That was my point.
>
> Most mortals don't know what lithium is and how it behaves. Mind to
> summarize? :)
>

It behaves badly and its parents have it on a
strict 10PM curfew.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium

The Alkali Metals: Reaction of Lithium with the air (Flash Video)

http://www.rsc.org/learn-chemistry/resource/res00001248/the-alkali-metals-part-1?cmpid=CMP00002458#!cmpid=CMP00002467

Paul

[Tekkie®]

Paul posted for all of us...

> The Alkali Metals: Reaction of Lithium with the air (Flash Video)

Clever little word there (stupid mind can't come up with the correct term.)
>
> http://www.rsc.org/learn-chemistry/resource/res00001248/the-alkali-metals-part-1?cmpid=CMP00002458#!cmpid=CMP00002467
>
> Paul
>
>



--
Tekkie

[James Wilkinson]

On Fri, 02 Sep 2016 19:55:01 +0100, Mr. Man-wai Chang <toylet...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Source: http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-37255127
>
> Samsung's decision to halt sales of the new Galaxy Note 7 because of
> reports of battery explosions is an extraordinary step for a tech giant
> to take.
>
> The firm said it had identified a battery issue but did not elaborate.
>
> But if a lithium-ion battery cell charges too quickly or a tiny
> manufacturing error slips through the net it can result in a short
> circuit - which can lead to fire.
>
> One expert urged the industry to find safer alternatives to lithium.
>
> "I think one should be concerned and push towards safer battery tech,"
> said energy storage expert Professor Clare Grey from Cambridge University.
>
> "That should be an important focus on research and industry development.
>
> "While most manufacturing flaws will be picked up during initial
> testing, it's not an infallible process."
>
> However Prof Grey also said that people should not panic.
>
> "I'm standing at an airport - every single person would have to stop
> what they are doing if we took their batteries away from them," she said.
>
> "We all take risks in our lives - we drive cars sitting on top of
> flammable organic liquids. Other tech is coming along that is safer."
> Common causes
>
> There have only been 35 cases of the Galaxy Note 7 catching fire
> reported worldwide following 2.5 million sales, Samsung says.

35 / 2.5 million = very small number.

--
Windows 95: n. 32 bit extensions and a graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit operating system originally coded for a 4 bit microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that can't stand 1 bit of competition.

[vjp...@at.biostrategist.dot.dot.com]

When I was a teen in the 1970s, my uncle in law was in charge of the
battery yard for the (seven) submarines of the Greek Navy. He would have
nightmares of the batteries exploding. Specifically, it was hydrogen buildup
which was most explosive. Batteries are stored energy, which is why they
explode. I can't believe how naive folks can be thinking that you can store
ANY energy and NOT have the possibility of an explosion. TNT and rocket fuel
is based on nitrogen triple bonds which are the most potent known fuel
source.

- = -
Vasos Panagiotopoulos, Columbia'81+, Reagan, Mozart, Pindus, BioStrategist
http://www.panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htm
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
[Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]
[Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Phooey on GUI: Windows for subprime Bimbos]

[Poutnik]

Dne 01/11/2016 v 21:59 vjp...@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com napsal(a):

> When I was a teen in the 1970s, my uncle in law was in charge of the
> battery yard for the (seven) submarines of the Greek Navy. He would have
> nightmares of the batteries exploding. Specifically, it was hydrogen buildup
> which was most explosive. Batteries are stored energy, which is why they
> explode. I can't believe how naive folks can be thinking that you can store
> ANY energy and NOT have the possibility of an explosion. TNT and rocket fuel
> is based on nitrogen triple bonds which are the most potent known fuel
> source.

Let summarize the major mistakes :

1/ Lithium batteries operations are related to building up hydrogen.

Li-ion/pol cells do NOT use chemistry, building up hydrogen,
as they use lithium hexafluorophosphates dissolved in
dialkylcarbonates as an aprotic electrolyte.


2/ Batteries are stored energy, which is why they explode.

Coal is much more concentrated energy than Li-ion cells,
but does not explode. So stored energy itself
is not cause of explosion. There is needed a mechanism
releasing it by uncontrolled way, like punctures
and overheating out of operational conditions.

Human body stores energy as fat, again with much higher
specific energy content than Lithium cells,
but explodes neither.

3/ TNT and rocket fuel is based on nitrogen triple bonds which are the

most potent known fuel source.

Nitrogen triple bond in the gaseous nitrogen or cyanides
is one of the strongest chemical bonds ever and you need
to PROVIDE a lot of energy to break it.

BTW, neither TNT nor rocket fuels DO NOT contain nitrogen
bonded by triple bonds.

So, be careful with the naive tag...

--
Poutnik ( The Pilgrim, Der Wanderer )
Knowledge makes great men humble, but small men arrogant.

[David Eather]

On Wed, 02 Nov 2016 06:59:35 +1000, <vjp...@at.biostrategist.dot.dot.com>
wrote:

These would be lead acid batteries, where yes, hydrogen build up was a
problem.

[John Doe]

They only explode when they are poorly specked carelessly manufactured
cheap shit made by slave labor in your communist country.

--
"Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet gmail.com> wrote in news:nqchu2$l2t$1 dont-email.me:

> Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
> From: "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet gmail.com>
> Newsgroups: sci.electronics.basics,sci.electronics.repair,alt.home.repair,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.freeware
> Subject: Why do lithium batteries explode?
> Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2016 02:55:01 +0800
> Organization: Hung Hom, Kowloon, Hong Kong
> Lines: 99
> Message-ID: <nqchu2$l2t$1 dont-email.me>
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
> Injection-Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2016 18:54:58 -0000 (UTC)
> Injection-Info: mx02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="24f55f6dde36e35dd75cbb62e3335c2e"; logging-data="21597"; mail-complaints-to="abuse eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+ItTJNxI4mtmFkL80QVSTO"
> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.3.0
> X-Mozilla-News-Host: snews://news.eternal-september.org:563
> Cancel-Lock: sha1:+MzRwQTBhif6QpVXNv9IPZCE6ss=
> Xref: news.eternal-september.org sci.electronics.basics:49925 sci.electronics.repair:74809 alt.home.repair:514397 alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt:34905 alt.comp.freeware:275166

>
>
> Source: http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-37255127
>
> Samsung's decision to halt sales of the new Galaxy Note 7 because of
> reports of battery explosions is an extraordinary step for a tech giant
> to take.
>
> The firm said it had identified a battery issue but did not elaborate.
>
> But if a lithium-ion battery cell charges too quickly or a tiny
> manufacturing error slips through the net it can result in a short
> circuit - which can lead to fire.
>
> One expert urged the industry to find safer alternatives to lithium.
>
> "I think one should be concerned and push towards safer battery tech,"
> said energy storage expert Professor Clare Grey from Cambridge University.
>
> "That should be an important focus on research and industry development.
>
> "While most manufacturing flaws will be picked up during initial
> testing, it's not an infallible process."
>
> However Prof Grey also said that people should not panic.
>
> "I'm standing at an airport - every single person would have to stop
> what they are doing if we took their batteries away from them," she said.
>
> "We all take risks in our lives - we drive cars sitting on top of
> flammable organic liquids. Other tech is coming along that is safer."
> Common causes
>
> There have only been 35 cases of the Galaxy Note 7 catching fire
> reported worldwide following 2.5 million sales, Samsung says.
>

> The lithium ion batteries used by Samsung are common across the tech
> industry - so what makes them hazardous?
>
> It's important to understand a little about how they work. Simply they
> contain a cathode, an anode and lithium.
>
> The cathode and anode are separated by an organic liquid called an
> electrolyte and a porous material called the separator.
>
> The lithium travels through the separator, within the liquid, between
> the two.
> Quick charge
>
> If the battery charges too fast, generating heat, lithium plates form
> around the anode which can create a short circuit.
>
> "Normally you would have a battery management system that controls the
> rate at which you charge," said Prof Grey.
>
> "Batteries are optimised so that you don't charge too fast - if you do
> that you will plate the lithium."
>
> This is also why battery charging can be a frustratingly slow
> experience, she added.
>
> Other faults that can cause a short circuit include contamination by
> tiny fragments of metal during the production process or minute holes in
> the sealing, which might not become apparent until the battery has been
> charged a few times as the materials expand and contract.
>
> "The manufacturing has got a lot more standardised than it was 10 to 15
> years ago," said Prof Grey.
>
> However battery packs - combining battery cells to generate more power -
> can be problematic and this is increasingly common. Batteries containing
> 12 cells, for example, are readily available for laptops.
>
> "The more you put together, the higher the likelihood that some will
> fail," she added.
>
> "There are still flaws emerging but it's getting better. It is a
> challenge - with so many being produced, you just need one error."
> Signs to watch out for
>
> There can be symptoms indicating that a battery is about to fail, said
> support and repairs provider Geek Squad.
>
> "Sometimes, a battery will start to swell and bulge before it fails
> completely, as the internal cells rupture and break," it says on its
> website.
>
> "But the bulge doesn't always happen. If not, you might notice that your
> device is a little warmer than usual - but let's be honest, our phones
> get fairly warm during standard usage anyway."
>
> The firm suggests disposing of any batteries displaying these signs.
>
> --
> ~ Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch! Live long and prosper!!

> / v \ Simplicity is Beauty!
> /( _ )\ May the Force and farces be with you!
> ^ ^ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10) Linux 2.6.39.3

> ј Ü Yä˝˜! ј ä∏ ǢT! ј ' ÔÑßœ! ј '%"Ñßœ! ј '%"ÜSÆ! ј 䌶'©ß! äÆ<ä ü'.©áÙo' Ô (CSSA):
> http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa
>
>

[Shadow]

On Tue, 1 Nov 2016 20:59:35 +0000 (UTC),
vjp...@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com wrote:

>I can't believe how naive folks can be thinking that you can store
>ANY energy and NOT have the possibility of an explosion.

How right. And my wife's stink. Yesterday ... no I'll avoid talking
about it.

>Reagan

Sorry to hear about that

> BioStrategist

Yeah, right.

[Poutnik]

On 11/02/2016 09:17 AM, Shadow wrote:
> On Tue, 1 Nov 2016 20:59:35 +0000 (UTC),
> vjp...@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com wrote:
>
>> I can't believe how naive folks can be thinking that you can store
>> ANY energy and NOT have the possibility of an explosion.
>
> How right. And my wife's stink. Yesterday ... no I'll avoid talking
> about it.
>

Well, some people acumulating energy in form of beans really explode..

[Diesel]

vjp...@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com
news:nvavnn$66n$2...@reader2.panix.com Tue, 01 Nov 2016 20:59:35 GMT in

alt.comp.freeware, wrote:

> Batteries are stored energy, which is why they explode.

Yes and no. They are stored energy as opposed to creating it on the
fly, but, that's not why they can 'explode' - The act of storing energy
itself doesn't automagically make it an explosive. And, not all
batteries actually go boom when a catastrophic failure does occur,
either. Some will vent/leak and do nothing else. Others experience
drastic temperature increases and a fire begins, occasionally followed
up with an explosion. Sometimes, not.

It's not correct on the face of it to say that batteries explode
because they store energy. There's more to it than that.

> I can't believe how naive folks can be thinking that you can store
> ANY energy and NOT have the possibility of an explosion.

It still doesn't surprise me to see people posting... at best, ill
advice while making a smartarse comment concerning others lack of
knowledge on the subject.

--
Make yourself sheep and the wolves will eat you.
Benjamin Franklin

[Paul]

Here's an example of a car battery that won't explode.

Like a D-cell for your flashlight, you "throw it away"
at your destination.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium%E2%80%93air_battery

*That's* how you get a vehicle which has only
an electric motor, half way across the country.
I haven't seen a price listed for the aluminum,
to see just how uncompetitive it is.

Paul