PC Smoke

[OG]

Quad Core Desktop Windows 7 PC been running for several days.
Today plug and unplugged USB drives to make a copy to USB Drive.

Started the copy and the screen went blank and the room filled with
smoke. Smelled like burning resistor (I think). I have smelled that
smell before.

Turned off the PC power.
Turned on the fans to get the smoke out.
Smoke detectors did not alert.

What are typical failures to look for?

Please give suggestions.
First I need to figure out how to get the cover off.

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ne...@netfront.net ---

[philo]

On 05/03/2016 12:49 PM, OG wrote:
> Quad Core Desktop Windows 7 PC been running for several days.
> Today plug and unplugged USB drives to make a copy to USB Drive.
>
> Started the copy and the screen went blank and the room filled with
> smoke. Smelled like burning resistor (I think). I have smelled that
> smell before.
>
> Turned off the PC power.
> Turned on the fans to get the smoke out.
> Smoke detectors did not alert.
>
> What are typical failures to look for?
>
> Please give suggestions.
> First I need to figure out how to get the cover off.

X


When you open the case it will probably be obvious.

If you do not see any burned, it's probably the power supply.

[John Robertson]

Your eyes and nose are going to be your biggest help after you get the
box open. Of course the machine is UNPLUGGED when you are taking it apart.

I would talk to your local dealer...can be a bad power supply (most
common failure).

John :-#)#

--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
(604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

[OG]

There a sound level detectors for locating sound.
There are infrared detectors for location heat.
There are volt meters for detecting voltages.
There are scopes for detecting waveforms.

Are there smell detectors for locating burned components?

[philo]

Yes. Your eyes :)

[Mike Easter]

philo wrote:
> OG wrote:
>> Quad Core Desktop Windows 7 PC been running for several days.

Does that several days mean that it is 'brand new' - those several days
are the entire time you've had it?

>> Today plug and unplugged USB drives to make a copy to USB Drive.
>>
>> Started the copy and the screen went blank and the room filled with
>> smoke.

Whoa! That must've been some pretty hot stuff you were copying :-)

>> What are typical failures to look for?

Philo's PS sounds like a candidate.

>> Please give suggestions.
>> First I need to figure out how to get the cover off.

If it is an OEM, naming the brand/modelno would be helpful to guide the
case business.

> When you open the case it will probably be obvious.
>
> If you do not see any burned, it's probably the power supply.
>

Yeah.

--
Mike Easter

[MJC]

In article <ngarhd$141a$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, AI...@AIOESPAM.COM says...

Not sure whether you'd want a dog or a canary!

Mike.

[FromTheRafters]

OG formulated the question :

Burned run on the PCB?

[FromTheRafters]

After serious thinking philo wrote :

Exactly, look for smoke residue. This may be problematic if 'smoke
filled the room' was not hyperbole.

[Mayayana]

| Started the copy and the screen went blank and the room filled with
| smoke. Smelled like burning resistor (I think). I have smelled that
| smell before.
|

The only time I've ever seen that happen was with
some kind of short that caused smoke and then soon
after a resistor exploded. It overloaded all components,
killing the RAM, hard disk, modem, CPU. Do not try
to turn it on again. If there's anything left usable it
should be removed and oput into a new box if possible.
You could try just replacing the power supply, but I
wouldn't do that with a valuable hard disk in place.

[Paul]

OG wrote:
> Quad Core Desktop Windows 7 PC been running for several days.
> Today plug and unplugged USB drives to make a copy to USB Drive.
>
> Started the copy and the screen went blank and the room filled with
> smoke. Smelled like burning resistor (I think). I have smelled that
> smell before.
>
> Turned off the PC power.
> Turned on the fans to get the smoke out.
> Smoke detectors did not alert.
>
> What are typical failures to look for?
>
> Please give suggestions.
> First I need to figure out how to get the cover off.
>

Power supply.

*******

There is one chipset with a problem, then your source
would be motherboard. The Intel ICH5/ICH5R could suffer
latchup in the USB I/O area. Causing a short across the
rails powering th USB pads. In an unlucky case, the bond
wires on the pad with the latchup, remain intact, and
a burned spot appears on the lid of the Southbridge.
Since the Southbridge in that case, has no heatsink,
it's easy to spot when someone tells you where to look.

(What a damaged ICH5/ICH5R looks like...)
http://i.onfinite.com/TFG42bkgd.jpg

But that hasn't happened since ICH5 era - no PCH seems
to have suffered a similar fate. So Intel quietly figured
it out. Back when those were happening, there might
have been around 30 USENET posts from victims... I still
own an ICH5, which remains intact. And I treat it
like royalty :-)

*******

If you were to take it to Geek Squad, they might well
immediately pull the ATX supply, and connect up a
spare supply. This is fine, if the spare is a decent
name brand supply with full protections (so it can
survive whatever the motherboard throws at it). But
there might be a flaw which can damage a spare
supply (like some rail to rail short maybe).

A question arises occasionally "should I try to use
the defective computer again and again to collect
more (smoky) symptoms?" . No, don't do that. One
poster tried that while debugging his system,
and the old flaky supply blew in spectacular fashion,
damaging the motherboard. Meaning the repair went from
from costing $50, to costing $200.

You can at least start with the "nose" test, and
track down where the smoke came from. And PSU
is likely to be the source.

Visual inspection only occasionally digs up a root
cause for you. But visual inspection is cheap. And
visual inspection is safe, *as long as you stay
away from high voltage stuff*. The inside of the
ATX supply, below the lid with the four screws,
has a couple caps that are (potentially) dangerous.
They hold enough energy, you *do not* use the screwdriver
discharge method on them - it would deafen you if
you tried that. Just stay away from them.

There is a reference schematic for a simple ATX power
supply design here. R2 and R3 make C5 and C6 "safe". But
if R2 or R3 fail open circuit, then the natural draining
process provided by R2 and R3, might not actually be
protecting you from high voltage. It is C5 and C6 terminals
on the PCB, you do not want to touch... Only use
a proper resistive shorting technique to make them
safe (i.e. connect your own R2 and R3). It's better
just to "look but don't touch" while looking inside
an ATX supply... And don't forget to unplug the computer!!!

http://www.pavouk.org/hw/en_atxps.html

When you visually inspect the inside of an ATX
supply, this is what you'd be looking for.
I had an Antec, with low service hours, that
looked exactly like that. The PC had been sitting
in storage, on the main floor of my house (i.e. dry
and warm), and the Antec caps started to leak while
it was just sitting there. And I got a puff of gray
smoke when I fired it up again. The capacitors
on the motherboard, can also have domed lids and
orange dried deposits on top. And that's mainly
what a visual inspection covers. Only about 10%
of potential faults are covered by a visual inspection,
so it's not a "heroic method" by any stretch of
the imagination. But visual inspection is "free" :-)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague

Of my three failed ATX supplies here, only one
of them looks exactly like the Wikipedia article.

Paul

[Linea Recta]

"OG" <X...@NOWHERE.COM> schreef in bericht
news:ngaobc$1mh4$1...@adenine.netfront.net...

If you had copied by firewire I would have known the answer...



--


|\ /|
| \/ |@rk
\../
\/os

[Ian Field]

"philo" <ph...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:ngaoou$lgd$2...@dont-email.me...

I've seen a well cremated PFC inductor in a PSU.

Since the PFC is basically a flyback boost converter, I just removed the
MOSFET and linked out the inductor.

Some PSUs have a dirty great iron cored choke in series with the mains input
for PFC - those are probably less likely to self incinerate.

Venting electrolytics can lay smoke like a Royal navy destroyer - but it
usually doesn't smell like burning resistors.

[Ian Field]

"philo" <ph...@privacy.net> wrote in message

news:ngarce$1c0$2...@dont-email.me...

Fry used Professor Farnsworth's smelloscope to locate Uranus.

[Ian Field]

"MJC" <gra...@mjcoon.plus.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.3193040...@news.plus.net...

Don't feed the dog liver & onion gravy if you're trying to isolate a
smell............

[Michael Black]

I thought it was your nose.

Michael

[Jeff Liebermann]

Yes. I had the displeasure of locating the source of a burning smell
among a collection of immovable servers in a server farm. To make
matters worse, there was lots of cooling air flow to disperse the
smell. If there was any smoke, I couldn't see it.

So, I stuck a clear vinyl hose in my nose, and waved the other end of
the hose around the fan exit ports on the servers. That isolated the
smell to one server. I got permission to shut it down. However, when
I opened the case, I couldn't see anything obviously burning. So, I
did the vinyl hose trick again, and eventually isolated the smoke to
the power supply. I didn't want to do component level troubleshooting
so I just replaced the power supply.

Somewhat later, I bought am "air quality monitor".
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/Nikken-AQM.jpg>
It's quite sensitive and will easily detect the smoke from a burning
component. That came in handy when I noticed that something smelled
like it was burning in my palatial office. I waved it around to sniff
the various likely culprits and eventually isolated the smoke to the
APC BackUPS XS-1000 in the photo. Notice the bar graph showing tilt.

Here's what's inside the Nikken AQM:
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/Nikken%201394%20Air%20Quality%20Monitor/>
Inside IR dust scattering sensor:
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/Nikken%201394%20Air%20Quality%20Monitor/Nikken-AQM-08.jpg>


--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[Jeff Liebermann]

If your nose runs, and your feet smell, you're built upside down.

[MJC]

In article <alpine.LNX.2.02.1...@darkstar.example.org>,
et...@ncf.ca says...

Years ago a colleague had a pimple on the end of his nose which he
claimed made it much more sensitive and discriminating for detecting
overheated components...

Mike.

[Clifford Heath]

On 04/05/16 07:57, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Tue, 3 May 2016 11:43:52 -0700, OG <AI...@AIOESPAM.COM> wrote:
>
>> There a sound level detectors for locating sound.
>> There are infrared detectors for location heat.
>> There are volt meters for detecting voltages.
>> There are scopes for detecting waveforms.
>>
>> Are there smell detectors for locating burned components?
>
> Yes. I had the displeasure of locating the source of a burning smell
> among a collection of immovable servers in a server farm. To make
> matters worse, there was lots of cooling air flow to disperse the
> smell. If there was any smoke, I couldn't see it.
> So, I stuck a clear vinyl hose in my nose, and waved the other end of
> the hose around

A vinyl tube in the ear is the best way of locating strange noises in
your car's engine bay too.

[OG]

> A vinyl tube in the ear is the best way of locating strange noises in
> your car's engine bay too.

I already have a stethoscope for listening to mechanicals.
Used it to isolate a noise under the hood.

[philo]

yep that's the old trick I used to balance the dual SU carburetors on my
'59 Triumph

[Jason]

On Tue, 3 May 2016 11:43:52 -0700 "OG" <AI...@AIOESPAM.COM> wrote in
article <ngarhd$141a$1...@gioia.aioe.org>

>
> Are there smell detectors for locating burned components?
>

Yes. They are called "smoke detectors" and you probably have several in
your house alread!

<snark off>

[Maurice Helwig]

Check the smoke Detectors in your house. with that much smoke they
should have gone off.

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Maurice Helwig
~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Wolf K]

AKA as garden hose. Cheaper than a stethoscope.


Best,
Wolf K
kirkwood40.blogspot.ca

[MJC]

In article <PjmWy.6768$Gy4....@fx17.iad>, wol...@sympatico.ca says...

>
> AKA as garden hose. Cheaper than a stethoscope.
>
>
> Best,
> Wolf K
> kirkwood40.blogspot.ca

Oh, Wolf, what great big ears you've got!...

Mike.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Wed, 4 May 2016 15:48:55 +1000, Maurice Helwig
<maurice...@internode.on.net> wrote:

>Check the smoke Detectors in your house. with that much smoke they
>should have gone off.

It's not the quantity of smoke, it's how long the PC continues to
smoke that makes household detectors go off. I have a smoke detector
in my office and home shop. Neither has ever been triggered by
transcient smoke signals. Figure on about 15 minutes for ionization
and 3 minutes for photoelectric:
<http://whnt.com/2012/07/16/smoke-detector-fail-a-taking-action-investigation/>
Anyway, a smoke detector is useless for finding the source of the
smoke, such as a hot component in the PC. For that, you would need a
smoke locator such as an IR camera.

[philo]

<snip>

>> yep that's the old trick I used to balance the dual SU carburetors on my
>> '59 Triumph
>
> AKA as garden hose. Cheaper than a stethoscope.
>

>X


Garden hose is too wide, just a small tube will do

[jurb...@gmail.com]

Your nose. Might tr some tubing... But that's just an idea.

However, if actually saw smoke there is bound to be a burn mark somewhere.

Know what ? Before taking it apart, try it again with nothing plugged in to the USBs. It is possible one of them was a dead short. I think alot of them have fuses nut then i doubt that each and every one does. These companies cut costs in some of the strangest places sometimes. In fact I saw one laptop detected USB overcurent in software. That is more prone to fail to protect than fuses. Even moreso now that USB ports put out more power than before.

[jurb...@gmail.com]

>"Do not try
>to turn it on again. "

Actually if he really SAW smoke that filled the room he has nothing to lose. Now if he only smelled smoke that is a different story. But once it comes billowing out of there, don't worry about it.

He said it did not set off the smoke detectors...

Hmm. I think it would if he really saw a roomful of smoke.

Or if the nearest detector is near the kitchen the battery might have been removed.

The problem with disassembling a laptop is that many "normal" people will not be able to get it back together.

[jurb...@gmail.com]

>"If you were to take it to Geek Squad, they might well
>immediately pull the ATX supply, and connect up a
>spare supply. This is fine, if the spare is a decent
>name brand supply with full protections (so it can
>survive whatever the motherboard throws at it). But
>there might be a flaw which can damage a spare
>supply (like some rail to rail short maybe). "

It's a laptop. Ideally it should be fired up on a bench power supply with current limiting - without the battery installed. Most of them take 19 volts. Or fire it up unplugged on the battery alone.

Qnd those brink power supplies have limiting so this problem is almost for sure a shorted USB stick. That means he most likely has a bad five volt regulator, and usually those are separate for the USB ports.

[jurb...@gmail.com]

>"and then soon
>after a resistor exploded. It overloaded all components,
>killing the RAM, hard disk, modem, CPU. "

Exploded resistors do not overload other components, at least not in something like this. What happened is all the damage happened at once.

Resistors do not just expode, they explode from overvoltage cauing too much current to flow and it overheats,And sometimes this happend really fast. When that happens you can bet there was overvoltage fed into the unit.

If it is not the USB regulators it is the power brick.

[jurb...@gmail.com]

I read that wrong, got it confused with something else. It is a desktop. My bad. Disregard what I wrote.

[jurb...@gmail.com]

[jurb...@gmail.com]

[Andy]

Interesting facts wrong but its ok:)
most good smoke detectors like first alert the only brand i use i have the
combo detector both ionization and photoelectric hard wired with battery
back up unit.
But even my battery only ionization unit that is directly over the pc went
off once when a test power supply blew a resistor and the smoke set it off
before i could even get to the window to open it to vent the smoke out of
the room:)
how fast they react ALL DEPENDS on 2 Things AGE OF UNIT all units should be
replaced EVERY 10 YEARS. in fact in my state and city it's a code
requirement.
Second is brand of unit if you get the cheap 8 dollar one at the dollar
store yes it wont react as good as the brand name first alert that costs you
20 or more dollars.
that is a proven fact.
But the 8 dollar one will go off if you boil water on the stove the better
unit wont:)


--
AL'S COMPUTERS
"Jeff Liebermann" <je...@cruzio.com> wrote in message
news:sgakibd5i6on9mjq7...@4ax.com...

[Maurice Helwig]

On 5/05/2016 3:57 PM, Andy wrote:
> Interesting facts wrong but its ok:)
> most good smoke detectors like first alert the only brand i use i have the
> combo detector both ionization and photoelectric hard wired with battery
> back up unit.
> But even my battery only ionization unit that is directly over the pc went
> off once when a test power supply blew a resistor and the smoke set it off
> before i could even get to the window to open it to vent the smoke out of
> the room:)
> how fast they react ALL DEPENDS on 2 Things AGE OF UNIT all units should be
> replaced EVERY 10 YEARS. in fact in my state and city it's a code
> requirement.
> Second is brand of unit if you get the cheap 8 dollar one at the dollar
> store yes it wont react as good as the brand name first alert that costs you
> 20 or more dollars.
> that is a proven fact.
> But the 8 dollar one will go off if you boil water on the stove the better
> unit wont:)
>
>

We had smoke detectors in the control room at work that would activate
the fire alarm when the boss would puff on his pipe. If they did not
then they were replaced Those were the days before smoking was banned in
all buildings and workp laces.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 5 May 2016 01:57:07 -0400, "Andy" <N...@n.com> wrote:

>Interesting facts wrong but its ok:)

Nice diplomacy, but they're either facts, or they're wrong. Can't
have both.

>most good smoke detectors like first alert the only brand i use i have the
>combo detector both ionization and photoelectric hard wired with battery
>back up unit.

The combo units are best. The photoelectric detectors are faster but
ionization detectors are more sensitive. The combination also
decreases false alarms as a real fire will trigger both, but chemical
and condensation problems will only trigger one or the other.

>But even my battery only ionization unit that is directly over the pc went
>off once when a test power supply blew a resistor and the smoke set it off
>before i could even get to the window to open it to vent the smoke out of
>the room:)

Egads. How much smoke did this resistor generate? What physical size
resistor? When I get a resistor too hot, it usually makes a small
puff of smoke before it blows. Unless it were wrapped in an oily rag
or the resistor was unusually large, there's not enough material in a
small ( <1/4 watt) resistor to produce much smoke.

>how fast they react ALL DEPENDS on 2 Things AGE OF UNIT all units should be
>replaced EVERY 10 YEARS. in fact in my state and city it's a code
>requirement.

Yep. However, the problem was not delay time or sensitivity. It was
that many battery powered smoke alarms were just sitting there with
dead batteries. Replacing the battery once per year was considered a
major imposition to many homeowners. To solve that problem, the
manufacturers were required to install use a non-replaceable Lithium
battery, in trade for requiring the homeowner to buy all new battery
operated smoke detectors.

>Second is brand of unit if you get the cheap 8 dollar one at the dollar
>store yes it wont react as good as the brand name first alert that costs you
>20 or more dollars.
>that is a proven fact.

Well, I prefer Kidde brand to First Alert. The main reason is that I
wanted a photoelectric detector with built in carbon monoxide
detection ability. I also wanted something that would not false on
kitchen cooking and my wood burning stove. I picked the Kidde Model
P3010K-CO ($40) for the house and shop:
<http://www.kidde.com/home-safety/en/us/products/fire-safety/smoke-alarms/p3010k-co/>
Ask me in about 8 years and I'll let you know how well they work. I
tested one with a galvanized pail full of newspapers. About 4 minutes
for the alarm to sound. So far, no falsing from normal cooking or the
woodburner. However, when I accidentally set fire to a yam in the
microwave, it set off the alarm in about 1 minute after I removed it
from the oven:
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/drivel/slides/burned-yam.html>
In both cases, the house was full of smoke before the alarm finally
went off.

You might be interested in these stories. The first is from 2007 and
is very much out of date. Yet many people still have similar old
smoke alarms. Newer alarms are allegedly faster to respond:
"Deadly Delay"
<http://www.wthr.com/global/Story.asp?s=6552929>
Notice that the fastest response was 16 minutes. See Part 2 at:
<http://www.wthr.com/global/Story.asp?s=6554435>
Test results
Test #1
First Alert dual sensor 18:00
First Alert photoelectric 23:38
First Alert ionization 33:45

Kidde ionization 27:16
Kidde dual sensor 28:50
Kidde photoelectric 29:30

Test #2
First Alert photoelectric 16:21
First Alert dual sensor 16:38
First Alert ionization 42:10

Kidde photoelectric 33:30
Kidde dual sensor 34:30
Kidde ionization 38:39

In 2012, the station continued the smoke detector campaign and
testing:
<http://whnt.com/2012/07/16/smoke-detector-fail-a-taking-action-investigation/>
The final result AFTER smoke was present:
Ionization: 17:00 minutes
Photoelectric: 2:48 seconds
Much better, methinks.

>But the 8 dollar one will go off if you boil water on the stove the better
>unit wont:)



--

[Brian Gregory]

On 03/05/2016 22:59, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Tue, 3 May 2016 16:27:37 -0400, Michael Black <et...@ncf.ca> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 3 May 2016, philo wrote:
>>> Yes. Your eyes :)
>
>> I thought it was your nose.
>> Michael
>
> If your nose runs, and your feet smell, you're built upside down.
>

At last. All this time I knew something was wrong with me.

--

Brian Gregory (in the UK).
To email me please remove all the letter vee from my email address.

[Ian Field]

<jurb...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5d0b87f1-f986-4dfb...@googlegroups.com...

>>"Do not try
>>to turn it on again. "
>
> Actually if he really SAW smoke that filled the room he has nothing to
> lose. Now if he only smelled smoke that is a different story. But once it
> comes billowing out of there, don't worry about it.
>
> He said it did not set off the smoke detectors...
>
> Hmm. I think it would if he really saw a roomful of smoke.

The ionisation type detect smoke particulates, the steam from a venting
electrolytic may not trigger it.

The optical smoke detectors respond to anything that stops the IR beam
reaching the other device in the sensor.

[Ian Field]

<jurb...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ba5c6639-248d-43df...@googlegroups.com...

>>"and then soon
>>after a resistor exploded. It overloaded all components,
>>killing the RAM, hard disk, modem, CPU. "
>
> Exploded resistors do not overload other components, at least not in
> something like this. What happened is all the damage happened at once.

Some cheaper WW resistors are wound on a glass rod instead of ceramic -
glass becomes electrically conductive at red heat.

[jurb...@gmail.com]

>"Some cheaper WW resistors are wound on a glass rod instead of >ceramic -
>glass becomes electrically conductive at red heat. "

And what makes them red hot ?

Power dissipation. Too much of it caused by too much voltage across it which causes too much current to flow which causes too much wattage to need to dissipate which raises the temperature.

Resistors do not lower in value unless abused. Even then, more than half the time they open up.

I really screwed up before thinking this was a laptop, but in a desktop if something actually burns on the motherboard it is almost always a power supply that went open loop and threw too much voltage at it.

Still, one of the USB devices could have been shorted. That is a possibility. He might have just got it set up to copy when it just couldn't take anymore, because it is not that likely that accessing it would cause a short.

I think it highly possible that this is a case where the power supply coincidentally occurred at that time. If that's the case, it is already fried.

[Andy]

You are aware that first alert is owned by kiddie now right?
they put out units under each name and with varying prices.
just like most THINK FIREX is junk WRONG its also owned by kiddie.
As for the resistor it was a big one in a thousand watt gaming power supply
and let me tell you between it buring up and the plastic around it from the
heat it created it was a nice smoky mess:)

--
AL'S COMPUTERS
"Jeff Liebermann" <je...@cruzio.com> wrote in message

news:snplib524emv50289...@4ax.com...

[Mark Zacharias]

"Andy" <N...@n.com> wrote in message
news:-PSdnUP2abKUpbHK...@earthlink.com...

> You are aware that first alert is owned by kiddie now right?
> they put out units under each name and with varying prices.
> just like most THINK FIREX is junk WRONG its also owned by kiddie.
> As for the resistor it was a big one in a thousand watt gaming power
> supply and let me tell you between it buring up and the plastic around it
> from the heat it created it was a nice smoky mess:)
>

<snip>

The other day an UNUSED! SATA connector in my desktop computer shorted out
at the free end filling the room with smoke and shutting down the computer.

You can do a Google image search for "burned SATA connector" and see the
type of damage I had.

Fairly common problem, apparently.


Mark Z.

[jurb...@gmail.com]

>The other day an UNUSED! SATA connector in my desktop computer >shorted out
>at the free end filling the room with smoke and shutting down the >computer.
>
>You can do a Google image search for "burned SATA connector" and see >the
>type of damage I had.
>
>Fairly common problem, apparently."

That is progress.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Fri, 6 May 2016 02:21:36 -0400, "Andy" <N...@n.com> wrote:

>You are aware that first alert is owned by kiddie now right?

No, I wasn't aware of that. Looking at the Wikipedia page, First
Alert seems to be owned by Jarden Branded Consumables.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Alert>
No mention of Kidde.

The Kidde page shows that they're part of UTC (United Technologies
Corporation) as UTC Fire & Security. No mention of First Alert.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidde>

I don't have time right now to chase down the details, but it seems to
me that they're seperate and unrelated companies. Are you sure?

>they put out units under each name and with varying prices.
>just like most THINK FIREX is junk WRONG its also owned by kiddie.

Yep. Firex is part of Kiddie:
<http://www.kidde.com/home-safety/en/us/about/Firex/>
Looks like they're recommending total replacent of anything labeled
Firex.

>As for the resistor it was a big one in a thousand watt gaming power supply
>and let me tell you between it buring up and the plastic around it from the
>heat it created it was a nice smoky mess:)

Ok, that's different. Big power can generate plenty of smoke. I
would expect a smoke alarm to respond fairly quickly to a "nice smoky
mess". You also won't need a vinyl hose "sniffer" to find the source.
Just look for the crater when the smoke clears.

[Ian Field]

<jurb...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:901064af-a030-40c6...@googlegroups.com...

>>"Some cheaper WW resistors are wound on a glass rod instead of >ceramic -
>>glass becomes electrically conductive at red heat. "
>
> And what makes them red hot ?
>
> Power dissipation. Too much of it caused by too much voltage across it
> which causes too much current to flow which causes too much wattage to
> need to dissipate which raises the temperature.
>
> Resistors do not lower in value unless abused. Even then, more than half
> the time they open up.

Most resistor types go high when overheated which limits the potential for
damage.

Glass cored resistors cause an increase in current and consequently the
potential for damage.

[Andy]

Good idea will give me something to do later:)


--
AL'S COMPUTERS
"Mark Zacharias" <mark_za...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:A8ZWy.8968$l93....@fx42.iad...

[Andy]

As far as i know unless it was sold again first alert is owned or WAS OWNED
by kiddie

--
AL'S COMPUTERS
"Jeff Liebermann" <je...@cruzio.com> wrote in message

news:mhapibdmjsk0egccu...@4ax.com...

[jurb...@gmail.com]

>"Glass cored resistors cause an increase in current and consequently >the
>potential for damage"

I remember a video on the internet about having some "fun" with a microwave. Normally you put glass in a microwave it is unaffected. Well they took a torch to it and heated it up first and then it was definitely affected by microwaves. Before that I never knew glass becomes conductive at high temperatures.

[Ian Field]

<jurb...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:170ce20b-a17f-498b...@googlegroups.com...

Most types of glass are lossy enough at microwave to not need any such
preparation.

Once I put a TV valve (tube) in the microwave, the glass glowed red and
became plastic, it wrapped around the internal structure like cling film.

My coffee mug is glass - I have to tuck the handle into a corner when I heat
a cup of water, otherwise the handle gets hot and burns my hand.

The alumina ceramic on a spark plug is also lossy enough to get red hot.

[Tim R]

On Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 3:24:00 PM UTC-4, Ian Field wrote:

>
> The alumina ceramic on a spark plug is also lossy enough to get red hot.

I believe you, but............how do you know? It's darned hard to get the ceramic off the steel part before I put it in the microwave.

[Ian Field]

"Tim R" <timot...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1c6d4622-6924-4192...@googlegroups.com...

I was cleaning the plugs - they wouldn't have been much use if I'd removed
the metal bit.

If you leave a plug overnight in an industrial strength ultrasonic cleaner,
it loosens the compacted powder seal - put it in an engine and the seal will
blow out within a mile.

If I want the metal shell to make a 2-stroke TDC measure, I just grind off
the rolled down lip and dig the seal out with a small screwdriver.