Name this knob

[olds...@tubes.com]

I have an electric guitar. It has a 4 position switch that selects which
of the three pickups, or all of them. There is a piece of metal that
sticks up, which is supposed to have a knob on it. Knob was missing.
Besides appearance, that metal shaft is sharp and dont feel good on the
hand.

But this is not your typical round shaft, it's a flat piece of metal
about 1/4" wide and 1/32 inch thick. So the knob will have a slit in it.
The guitar is a Silvertone from probably the 1970s, so I wont likely
find an original knob. But I am not all that picky about getting an
original, as long as I can get something that fits.

I did call a music store and was told that they will check what they
have, but said he doubts they have anything. (Will call me back). So it
looks like I am gonna have to fidn something at an electronics store or
ebay. My question is *What do you call this sort of knob*? I dont know
what words to search for.

[Mike Coon]

In article <bpif9dhve83c75av5...@4ax.com>,
olds...@tubes.com says...

It's a motivation to read the poem "Today we have naming of parts",
which will not help at all.

Then get a short bit of 1/4 inch nylon or similar rod, cut it down the
middle, stick the two halves onto your sharp shaft and fit a standard
knob.

Mike.

[Boris Mohar]

On Thu, 01 Mar 2018 03:54:03 -0600, olds...@tubes.com wrote:

If you google "guitar lever switch" and than "images" you would find a
dogpile of switches, few of which are for guitar pickups.
https://goo.gl/UUhUaY

>My question is *What do you call this sort of knob*? I dont know
>what words to search for.
>

--
Boris

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

[Gareth Magennis]

wrote in message news:bpif9dhve83c75av5...@4ax.com...

*************************************


Go to a guitar parts site such as this one.

https://www.wdmusic.co.uk/hardware-parts-c1/knobs-c39





Gareth.

[Jon Elson]

take a 1/4" shaft and hacksaw through it so it forms two D-shaped pieces.
Hold the D's against the switch shaft and slip a standard knob onto the 3-
piece set. Then, tighten the screw on the knob to hold it together.

Jon

[Gareth Magennis]

"Mike Coon" wrote in message
news:MPG.3501ee19d...@news.plus.net...

*******************************


This is not a rotary switch.


Gareth.

[John-Del]

On Thursday, March 1, 2018 at 4:56:39 AM UTC-5, olds...@tubes.com wrote:

My question is *What do you call this sort of knob*?

It's called a knob...

Probably a knob from a Strat or Tele will fit. Bring the guitar to the music store; I'm sure they have a box o' knobs you can rifle through.

The best news is that if they're old knobs, they're not made in China...

[Terry Schwartz]

Google "guitar pickup knob" and you will see a plethora of knobs that will fit your application.

Oh wait...... google...... never mind.

[Mike Coon]

In article <J0%lC.12416$LD5....@fx07.am4>,
soundser...@outlook.com says...

>
> This is not a rotary switch.
>
> Gareth.

Fortunately I cannot see whatever you are waving about ;-)

(I have just been watching a TV programme about Harvey Weinstein.)

Mike.

[Gareth Magennis]

wrote in message news:bpif9dhve83c75av5...@4ax.com...

But this is not your typical round shaft, it's a flat piece of metal
about 1/4" wide and 1/32 inch thick. So the knob will have a slit in it.

**************************



Hmmm. and thereby lies the problem with your oldendays measurement system.

You can't get closer than "about" 1/4 inch in a single sentence.



You need a pair of cheap mm callipers.




Gareth

[Phil Allison]

olds...@tubes.com wrote:

---------------------------

> I have an electric guitar. It has a 4 position switch that selects which
> of the three pickups, or all of them. There is a piece of metal that
> sticks up, which is supposed to have a knob on it. Knob was missing.
> Besides appearance, that metal shaft is sharp and dont feel good on the
> hand.
>
> But this is not your typical round shaft, it's a flat piece of metal
> about 1/4" wide and 1/32 inch thick. So the knob will have a slit in it.
> The guitar is a Silvertone from probably the 1970s, so I wont likely
> find an original knob. But I am not all that picky about getting an
> original, as long as I can get something that fits.
>
>

** Guitars are often fitted with multi-way LEVER switches, like the one you describe.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Yibuy-White-Switch-Knob-5-way-Pickup-Lever-Switch-for-Electric-Guitar/32752649710.html

May have 3,4 or 5 ways depending on the number of PUs while some use 2-way toggles - often with a centre, double ON position that caters for 2 PUs.
Lever types are quicker for the player to use than a rotary switch and the position easily identified by finger tips alone.

The push-fit knob is similar to ones used with slider controls, particularly those fitted closely spaced on graphic equalisers.

Making a small, grub screw knob secure by packing the gaps as another suggests sounds good if you don't mind putting in the time.


IME, repairing broken & bent shaft pots on guitar amps is part of a great many jobs. Sometimes 1980s Marshalls turn up with the whole lot visibly damaged.

Then there are the 2000 series where the flimsy plastic pots look OK but work intermittently.....



.... Phil

[Dave M]

Take a look at the knobs on eBay (item number:162919395802). Probably the
ones you are looking for. I see that this listing only has 3 available. If
you only need one, then you should be good to go.

Cheers,
Dave M
(I'm from the old school too)

[olds...@tubes.com]

On Thu, 1 Mar 2018 21:50:15 -0600, "Dave M" <dgmi...@mediacombb.net>
wrote:

>Take a look at the knobs on eBay (item number:162919395802). Probably the
>ones you are looking for. I see that this listing only has 3 available. If
>you only need one, then you should be good to go.
>
>Cheers,
>Dave M
>(I'm from the old school too)
>

Thanks Dave,

That sure does look like the one I need.

[olds...@tubes.com]

Unlike you, I am an AMERICAN.
Americans use Inches, feet, yards and miles.

We dont use no goddamn communistic metrics. The only Meters we use are
the ones connected to the wires that enter our homes from the electric
power company, or the ones for the gas or water entering our homes.

Using Metrics in America is like hanging a Nazi flag in front of city
hall. It's unpatriotic, unAmerican, and politically incorrect. It's like
sending someone to their death based on the color of their skin or their
religious beliefs.

Our red - white and blue Flags have 50 stars. Each is one inch in size.
Our Apple Pies are measured in inches, not centipedes
Out liquor comes in pints, quarts, fifths, and gallons. We drink that
while proudly raising the American flag, before a Football game.
Yes, that's FOOTball, not no stinking commie Milimeter ball. The game is
played on a football field measured in YARDS, not no damn commie Meters.
And we drive at 55 Miles per hour, to the games in our AMERICAN made
Chevrolets, Fords, and Chrysler cars.

I need a caliper that messures in Thousandths, (of a Red - White and
Blue AMERICAN Inch).

May God damn those who use Metrics.

God Bless America.

Thank God I'm a country boy!!!

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Saturday, 3 March 2018 07:50:28 UTC, olds...@tubes.com wrote:

> Unlike you, I am an AMERICAN.
> Americans use Inches, feet, yards and miles.
>
> We dont use no goddamn communistic metrics. The only Meters we use are
> the ones connected to the wires that enter our homes from the electric
> power company, or the ones for the gas or water entering our homes.
>
> Using Metrics in America is like hanging a Nazi flag in front of city
> hall. It's unpatriotic, unAmerican, and politically incorrect. It's like
> sending someone to their death based on the color of their skin or their
> religious beliefs.
>
> Our red - white and blue Flags have 50 stars. Each is one inch in size.
> Our Apple Pies are measured in inches, not centipedes
> Out liquor comes in pints, quarts, fifths, and gallons. We drink that
> while proudly raising the American flag, before a Football game.
> Yes, that's FOOTball, not no stinking commie Milimeter ball. The game is
> played on a football field measured in YARDS, not no damn commie Meters.
> And we drive at 55 Miles per hour, to the games in our AMERICAN made
> Chevrolets, Fords, and Chrysler cars.
>
> I need a caliper that messures in Thousandths, (of a Red - White and
> Blue AMERICAN Inch).
>
> May God damn those who use Metrics.
>
> God Bless America.
>
> Thank God I'm a country boy!!!

:) No-one tell him that metres are French


NT

[Phil Allison]

olds...@tubes.com wrote:

------------------------

> >
> >But this is not your typical round shaft, it's a flat piece of metal
> >about 1/4" wide and 1/32 inch thick. So the knob will have a slit in it.
> >
> >
> >
> >**************************
> >
> >
> >
> >Hmmm. and thereby lies the problem with your oldendays measurement system.
> >
> >You can't get closer than "about" 1/4 inch in a single sentence.
> >
> >
> >
> >You need a pair of cheap mm callipers.
> >
>
> >
>

> Unlike you, I am an AMERICAN.
> Americans use Inches, feet, yards and miles.
>
> We dont use no goddamn communistic metrics. The only Meters we use are
> the ones connected to the wires that enter our homes from the electric
> power company, or the ones for the gas or water entering our homes.
>
> Using Metrics in America is like hanging a Nazi flag in front of city
> hall. It's unpatriotic, unAmerican, and politically incorrect. It's like
> sending someone to their death based on the color of their skin or their
> religious beliefs.
>
> Our red - white and blue Flags have 50 stars. Each is one inch in size.
> Our Apple Pies are measured in inches, not centipedes
> Out liquor comes in pints, quarts, fifths, and gallons. We drink that
> while proudly raising the American flag, before a Football game.
> Yes, that's FOOTball, not no stinking commie Milimeter ball. The game is
> played on a football field measured in YARDS, not no damn commie Meters.
> And we drive at 55 Miles per hour, to the games in our AMERICAN made
> Chevrolets, Fords, and Chrysler cars.
>
> I need a caliper that messures in Thousandths, (of a Red - White and
> Blue AMERICAN Inch).
>
> May God damn those who use Metrics.
>
> God Bless America.
>
> Thank God I'm a country boy!!!
>
>

** Shame those pesky " co-axial DC power connectors " only come in metric
sizes - millimetres and tenths of millimetres.

Good thing there was no problem with changing from " cps, kcps & Mcps "
to " Hz, kHz and MHz ".

Or was there .....





... Phil

[Fox's Mercantile]

On 3/3/18 1:47 AM, olds...@tubes.com wrote:
> Using Metrics in America is like hanging a Nazi flag in
> front of city hall. It's unpatriotic, unAmerican, and
> politically incorrect. It's like sending someone to their
> death based on the color of their skin or their religious
> beliefs.

You never cease to amaze me with the depth of your ignorance.
For one thing, America has a long continuous history of
killing people based solely on the color of their skin or
their religious beliefs. And if you haven't noticed, there's
no shortage of Peckerwoods running around waving Nazi, and
Confederate battle flags.

But since you want to rant about the Metric system.

Wine by the liter is more and it's neater,
It's here and simply that's all there is to it.

But measure in Metric in lieu of obstetric
is absurd and I simply won't do it.

I can't use meters when comparing peters,
In fact I'm a bit of a runt there.

I'm shorter, but just by a cunt hair.



--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com

[M Philbrook]

In article <cvmdnd6DiNlhMgfH...@giganews.com>,
jda...@att.net says...

I think a "Cunt hair" is a universal metric, one that most of us
understand..

[Terry Schwartz]

That just might be the most asinine rant I've read to date.

[Fox's Mercantile]

On 3/3/18 9:51 AM, Terry Schwartz wrote:
> That just might be the most asinine rant I've read to date.

As I said "You never cease to amaze me with the depth of your
ignorance."

[pf...@aol.com]

Lemme see:

The Metric system was "invented" in 1670, in France. This was well before Communism, at that point "Protestantism" was a dirty word in many sectors.

The US auto industry has largely adopted the Metric system so as to compete world-wide, and to standardize parts.

Pretty much anyone with even half-a-brain that has done much of anything with tools over the last 40 years will be fluent in both currencies. Some years ago, I was working as a machinist making parts for GE for their engines. About half the shop used metric tools (shaft diameters, fasteners) and half the shop was using SAE standards (flange widths and thicknesses, fastener spacing). See, we were selling parts to European and Japanese GE license holders, as well as sub-assembly consolidators.

As to KM vs. Miles - sheesh! I have driven in 8 countries on three continents. Only one uses MPH. One is courteous enough to put up the signs in both in many locations (Saudi), and one does so on main highways (Both of them - Bahrain). It is _REALLY_ hard to remember that 62.5 MPH = 100 KPH, and that 75 MPH = 120 KPH. And so on and so forth.

And, are you offended to know that we are using Old Arabic Numerals for our numbers, and Italian (Latin) letters? And it was the Arabs that gave us the 0 (zero), allowing modern calculations?

When it comes to the terms & tools used for the communication of mathematics and language, we AMERICANS have not contributed much at all. Be glad that you are not British, as you would have to contend with the Whitworth standard in addition. That would likely cause your brain to explode.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

[Ralph Phillips]

On 3/3/2018 9:43 AM, M Philbrook wrote:
> In article <cvmdnd6DiNlhMgfH...@giganews.com>,
> jda...@att.net says...

>>

>> I'm shorter, but just by a cunt hair.
>
> I think a "Cunt hair" is a universal metric, one that most of us
> understand..
>

But was it a blonde, brunette, or red cunt hair?

RwP

[Fox's Mercantile]

In order of size, black, brunette, blond then red.
It is speculated that the Japanese lost WWII due to the inaccuracies
caused by the coarseness of black vs red hairs.

[Gareth Magennis]

wrote in message
news:d825f1ad-0edf-4168...@googlegroups.com...

Lemme see:

The Metric system was "invented" in 1670, in France. This was well before
Communism, at that point "Protestantism" was a dirty word in many sectors.

The US auto industry has largely adopted the Metric system so as to compete
world-wide, and to standardize parts.

Pretty much anyone with even half-a-brain that has done much of anything
with tools over the last 40 years will be fluent in both currencies. Some
years ago, I was working as a machinist making parts for GE for their
engines. About half the shop used metric tools (shaft diameters, fasteners)
and half the shop was using SAE standards (flange widths and thicknesses,
fastener spacing). See, we were selling parts to European and Japanese GE
license holders, as well as sub-assembly consolidators.

.......

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

****************************


I seem to regularly come across nuts that fit on a metric bolt, that don't
fit any metric socket well.
An imperial one from my Halfords socket set fits perfectly.

Work that one out.



Gareth.

[Chuck]

I hope this is satirical.

[Gareth Magennis]

"Chuck" wrote in message news:01ul9dl151mpan7g6...@4ax.com...

******************************************


I assumed it was, and actually found it rather humerous.



Gareth.

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <cvmdnd6DiNlhMgfH...@giganews.com>,
jda...@att.net says...
>

> But since you want to rant about the Metric system.
>
> Wine by the liter is more and it's neater,
> It's here and simply that's all there is to it.
>
> But measure in Metric in lieu of obstetric
> is absurd and I simply won't do it.
>
> I can't use meters when comparing peters,
> In fact I'm a bit of a runt there.
>
> I'm shorter, but just by a cunt hair.
>
>

Old school needs to get with the modern times.

On Oct. 1,1976 the liquor industry officially went metric. As a result,
all whisky, vodka and other distilled spirits sold in the United States
may now be legally offered in metric-sized bottles.

Instead of the confusing array of 38 different sizes and shapes now
sold, liquor will be bottled in six standard sizes. For example, a fifth
which is 25.6 fluid ounces, will he replaced by a slightly smaller 750
milliliter bottle, equivalent to 25.4 ounces. The old quart, or 32-ounce
bottle, wit he marketed as a liter holding 33.8 fluid ounces.


Many of the so called US cars are not made in the US where lots of
Toyotas and maybe Hondas are.

[Fox's Mercantile]

Unfortunately it was not.
It was posted in all seriousness, because he truly believes it.

[~misfit~]

It's good to know that you are still using ancient English measurements -
measurements that are so clumsy the English gave up on them long ago. You
may have gained independance for your country but not for your minds...

Some people prefer fighting to thinking.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)

[~misfit~]

Once upon a time on usenet olds...@tubes.com wrote:

Oh and 'this knob' is called olds...@tubes.com.

[Fox's Mercantile]

On 3/3/18 7:04 PM, ~misfit~ wrote:
> Oh and 'this knob' is calledo...@tubes.com.

I thought the phrase was "Bell end."

[Tom Del Rosso]

"As long as collars and cuffs match."
-James Bond in Diamonds are Forever

[olds...@tubes.com]

On Sat, 03 Mar 2018 13:32:56 -0600, Chuck <c...@dejanews.net> wrote:

>>May God damn those who use Metrics.
>>
>>God Bless America.
>>
>>Thank God I'm a country boy!!!
>>
>I hope this is satirical.
>
>---

"Okie From Muskogee" (Anti-metric edition)

We don't smoke marijuana in Muskogee;
We don't take no trips on LSD
We don't burn no draft cards down on Main Street;
We like livin' right, and bein' free.

I'm proud to be an Okie from Muskogee,
A place where even squares can have a ball
We still wave Old Glory down at the courthouse,
And white lightnin's still the biggest thrill of all

We don't make a party out of lovin';
We like holdin' hands and pitchin' woo;
We don't let our hair grow long and shaggy,
Like the hippies out in San Francisco do.

And I'm proud to be an Okie from Muskogee,
A place where even squares can have a ball.
We still wave Old Glory down at the courthouse,
And white lightnin's still the biggest thrill of all.

Leather boots are still in style for manly footwear;
Beads and Roman sandals won't be seen.
Football's still the roughest thing on campus,
And the kids here still respect the college dean.

******
We dont use no commie metrics in Muskogee,
Our tape measures only read inches and feet.
Our prom queen is a perfect 38-24-36 inches,
We still spin 45rpm records to feel the beat.
*******

We still wave Old Glory down at the courthouse,
In Muskogee, Oklahoma, USA.

[Fox's Mercantile]

On 3/4/18 4:32 AM, olds...@tubes.com wrote:
> We dont use no commie metrics in Muskogee,
> Our tape measures only read inches and feet.
> Our prom queen is a perfect 38-24-36 inches,
> We still spin 45rpm records to feel the beat.

Don't attribute words to Merle,
He was enough of an asshole without your help.

[Fox's Mercantile]

On 3/4/18 7:12 AM, Fox's Mercantile wrote:
> Don't attribute words to Merle,
> He was enough of an asshole without your help.

Kinky knew this. We all knew this.
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n__tAHR5ErM>

[pf...@aol.com]

Oh, I dunno - anyone smitten with a system based on the width of the (Roman) emperor's thumb some several thousand years ago deserves pity.

All and at the same time, the last time I saw Merle in concert (as an opener for Leo Kottke of all things!) he was a tired old man with neither vinegar nor piss remaining, and not much of his voice. It was a small room, and entirely unamplified.

So, think on it! This AMERICAN is advocating:
Arabic numerals.
Roman letters.
An emperor's thumb.

Not very bright.

Those who do not remember the paste are condemned to repeat it.
-George Santayana

[Fox's Mercantile]

On 3/4/18 12:29 PM, pf...@aol.com wrote:
> Oh, I dunno - anyone smitten with a system based on the width
> of the (Roman) emperor's thumb some several thousand years ago
> deserves pity.

Until they make an ass of themselves over it.

> All and at the same time, the last time I saw Merle in concert
> (as an opener for Leo Kottke of all things!) he was a tired old
> man with neither vinegar nor piss remaining, and not much of his
> voice. It was a small room, and entirely unamplified.

Merle has been the embodiment of the mentality that voted for
Trump. Typically, the ability to be outraged and threatened by any
change.

> So, think on it! This AMERICAN is advocating:
> Arabic numerals.
> Roman letters.
> An emperor's thumb.
>
> Not very bright.

Dumber than a box of rocks.

All measurements are arbitrary.
They were and are all born out a requirement of repeat-ability.
To prove that, I built a set of cabinets using just a stick that I
put pencil marks on. "This part has to be this wide/long etc."

[Terry Schwartz]

>
> Those who do not remember the paste are condemned to repeat it.
> -George Santayana
>

I remember the paste. The dumbest kids in class used to eat it.

[tabb...@gmail.com]

Measurement units are all arbitrary. One upside of imperial is the units are divisible by several whole numbers, making mental mathematics easier some of the time. To call them 'not very bright' is just not very bright.

The modern world contains no end of both unit systems in use, thus the sensible practical person familiarises themselves with both systems. (Which explains why our UK schools only teach one system.)


NT

[Gareth Magennis]

"Fox's Mercantile" wrote in message
news:RNadnR_SPpG53AHH...@giganews.com...

****************************


Just from memory, I can't be arsed to Google it right now,

isn't there some piece of metal held in a vault somewhere (possibly France)
that is defined to be the accepted length of a metre?



Pierre.

[Fox's Mercantile]

On 3/4/18 2:31 PM, Gareth Magennis wrote:
> Just from memory, I can't be arsed to Google it right now,
>
> isn't there some piece of metal held in a vault somewhere (possibly
> France) that is defined to be the accepted length of a metre?

That would be the Bureau international des poids et mesures.

The original international prototype of the metre is still kept at
the BIPM under the conditions specified in 1889.

The BIPM is also the keeper of the international prototype of the
kilogram.

The BIPM is situated in the Parc de Saint-Cloud, at Sèvres, in the
suburbs south-west of Paris.

Postal address: Pavillon de Breteuil, F-92312 Sèvres Cedex
Street address: 12bis Grande Rue, F-92310 Sèvres

However, it's still just an arbitrary measurement. It was based on
a fraction of the earth's diameter. And derived from a small arc of
said diameter. Coincidentally it just happened to end up being close
to the same length of the English yard.

Frequency is another arbitrary system. It is based on the rotation
of the earth divided by 86,400 for seconds. Or 24 for hours, which
had already been standardized during the Roman Empire.

The primary advantage of the Metric system is all the units are
related to one another and divisible by ten. Length, volume, weight
etc.. Unlike the relationship between inches, ounces (liquid) and
ounces (weight) that all have different divisors. Inch, feet, yards,
miles etc..

[Gareth Magennis]

"Fox's Mercantile" wrote in message

news:tc2dnaA8EciZ9QHH...@giganews.com...

************************************



OK, I'm no Physisyst, though I quite liked Physics at school and was
reasonably good at it.

Is it not now considered that time is no longer arbitrary?
i.e. Atomic clocks base a second around the determinable decay of some kind
of (cesium) radioactive particle?

This is not a variable under normal earth conditions.


So, "v = f.lambda" has at least one "known" value.

You don't actually need to know whether a metre is a metre at all, as long
as you accept the value of "t" as a known constant.

I think.



Albert.

[tabb...@gmail.com]

Somewhere I have a book from the 1800s that lists the sizes of imperial measurements in various countries. They are nearly all different, that is the prime reason metric became popular, traditional units became a mare when international trade greatly expanded.

Easy division by 10 is sometimes useful. Easy division by 2,3,4,6 & 12 is sometimes useful. I pick my system according to which works better for each task.


NT

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, 4 March 2018 22:16:09 UTC, Gareth Magennis wrote:

> OK, I'm no Physisyst, though I quite liked Physics at school and was
> reasonably good at it.
>
> Is it not now considered that time is no longer arbitrary?
> i.e. Atomic clocks base a second around the determinable decay of some kind
> of (cesium) radioactive particle?
>
> This is not a variable under normal earth conditions.

but the unit of seconds is an arbitrary number of decays.


NT

[Fox's Mercantile]

On 3/4/18 4:16 PM, Gareth Magennis wrote:
> Is it not now considered that time is no longer arbitrary?
> i.e. Atomic clocks base a second around the determinable
> decay of some kind of (cesium) radioactive particle?

It's still an arbitrary measurement.
Just now, it is one they can assign it's arbitrary value more
accurately and consistently.

Just like the gram.

Originally defined as "the absolute weight of a volume of pure
water equal to the cube of the hundredth part of a metre, and
at the temperature of melting ice"[2] (later at 4 °C, the
temperature of maximum density of water). However, in a reversal
of reference and defined units, a gram is now defined as one
one-thousandth of the SI base unit, the kilogram, or 1×10−3 kg,
which itself is now defined, not in terms of grams, but as being
equal to the mass of a physical prototype of a specific alloy kept
locked up and preserved by the International Bureau of Weights and
Measures.

Or Fahrenheit vs Celsius.
Fahrenheit was originally derived a 0 F = the coldest it's ever
been and 100 F = the hottest it's ever been. Both quite arbitrary.
Then along came Celsius. Water freezes at 0 C and boils at 100 C,
compared to 32 F and 212 F respectively. A little bit more accurate
that "Oh shit it's hot outside."

[Gareth Magennis]

"Fox's Mercantile" wrote in message

news:HpWdnUsDafA74QHH...@giganews.com...

On 3/4/18 4:16 PM, Gareth Magennis wrote:
> Is it not now considered that time is no longer arbitrary?
> i.e. Atomic clocks base a second around the determinable
> decay of some kind of (cesium) radioactive particle?

It's still an arbitrary measurement.
Just now, it is one they can assign it's arbitrary value more
accurately and consistently.

****************************


So are you saying it is a variable?


Either it is, or it isn't.




Gareth.

[Fox's Mercantile]

I didn't say it was variable.
I said it's arbitrary, and the arbitrarily assigned value is more
precises and repeatable now.

[Gareth Magennis]

"Fox's Mercantile" wrote in message

news:-bCdnUo2Dt1LHgHH...@giganews.com...

************************


I don't need to argue semantics with you.

[Fox's Mercantile]

On 3/4/18 6:26 PM, Gareth Magennis wrote:
>
> I don't need to argue semantics with you.

Correct, because arbitrary and variable have two very different
meanings.

Arbitrary, Based on random choice or personal whim, rather than
any reason or system.

All units are inherently arbitrary.
The variable nature of them is only in the matter with which
they have been redefined for greater accuracy and repeatably.

It's not like a meter has suddenly changed from 39.370079" to
40". Or has varied from 30" to 40" over the years.

[Gareth Magennis]

"Fox's Mercantile" wrote in message

news:KLOdnSawhp2PDgHH...@giganews.com...

On 3/4/18 6:26 PM, Gareth Magennis wrote:
>
> I don't need to argue semantics with you.

Correct, because arbitrary and variable have two very different
meanings.

Arbitrary, Based on random choice or personal whim, rather than
any reason or system.

All units are inherently arbitrary.
The variable nature of them is only in the matter with which
they have been redefined for greater accuracy and repeatably.

It's not like a meter has suddenly changed from 39.370079" to
40". Or has varied from 30" to 40" over the years.

*****************************


I'm not interested.


Bye.

[Phil Allison]

Fox's Mercantile wrote:
___________________________

>
>
> All units are inherently arbitrary.
> The variable nature of them is only in the matter with which
> they have been redefined for greater accuracy and repeatably.
>
> It's not like a meter has suddenly changed from 39.370079" to
> 40". Or has varied from 30" to 40" over the years.
>

** Long time ago, it was decided to *define* the inch in tern of the cm.

1 inch = 2.54cm *exactly*.

so 1 foot = 30.48cm *exactly".

but 1 litre = 61 cu. inches is approximate, cos it goes the other way.




..... Phil

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 4 Mar 2018 22:16:04 -0000, "Gareth Magennis"
<soundser...@outlook.com> wrote:

>OK, I'm no Physisyst, though I quite liked Physics at school and was
>reasonably good at it.

Methinks you mean Fizix.

>Is it not now considered that time is no longer arbitrary?
>i.e. Atomic clocks base a second around the determinable decay of some kind
>of (cesium) radioactive particle?
>This is not a variable under normal earth conditions.

Nope. Those are "natural units" or units based on the properties of
things found in nature and are therefore not arbitrary. They are used
mostly in Fizix and by quantum mechanics:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_units>

The remaining units are arbitrary and based on some base unit that is
usually measurable, until the search for finer resolution brings the
standard bearers into the quagmire of quantum fizix, where their
standards run into problems with Heisenberg's uncertainty principle:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heisenberg%27s_uncertainty_principle>
where one can only measure what one cannot find, and the observer
effect:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Observer_effect_(physics)>
where things move away if you try to measure them. As you might
suspect, measurement standards based on sub-atomic particles, is a
really bad idea.

Such difficulties have not stopped people from inventing their own
units of measures, usually for some devious purpose:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unusual_units_of_measurement>
Unfortunately, it doesn't list the unit of measure that I invented and
probably should copyright. Helen of Troy allegedly launched 1000
ships and was known to be the ultimate feminine beauty of her day.
Therefore, I defined the measure of contemporary feminine beauty as
the milliHelen, which would launch one ship. Of course, negative
milliHelens are the measure of feminine ugliness capable of sinking
one ship. So far, the beauty, fashion and entertainment industries
have not expressed any interest in adopting my measurement system.

Another useful unit of measure that I invented is the Subaru Day(tm).
The digital clock in my 2001 Subaru Forester runs about 10 seconds
slow every day, making the length of the average day equal to 24 hrs,
0 mins, and 10 seconds. Rather than repair and calibrate my clock, I
have invented a new unit of measure, which defines the length of my
day to be 10 seconds longer than the traditional 24 hr day. In
keeping with astronomical traditions, the Subaru Day will be
synchronized with the solar day several times per year, usually on the
day I do an oil and filter change.

I hope this helps...

--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[Fox's Mercantile]

On 3/4/18 7:06 PM, Gareth Magennis wrote:
>
> I'm not interested.
>
>
> Bye.

Of course not. The willfully ignorant never are.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 4 Mar 2018 10:29:16 -0800 (PST), "pf...@aol.com" <pf...@aol.com>
wrote:

>Those who do not remember the paste are condemned to repeat it.
>-George Santayana
>
>Peter Wieck
>Melrose Park, PA

Psssst. I think you mean "past".

I don't like that expression. When I contrive something new, the
first thing I do is research its past history and repeat all the old
experiments. That's to be sure that they were done properly and that
someone didn't just make a mistake in reporting a failure. I then
proceed to invent my own mistakes, repeating them as needed, until I
hopefully reach a satisfactory result. It's called perseverance where
the acceptance of past failures is counter productive. A good example
is the repetition of the Michelson-Morley experiment:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelson%E2%80%93Morley_experiment>
where a substantial number of experimenters continue to improve the
measurement precision in the hope of demonstrating that the speed of
light just might be even slightly affected by the earth's motion.

Premature Judgement:
<http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/Premature-Judgement.txt>

[olds...@tubes.com]

On Sun, 4 Mar 2018 22:16:04 -0000, "Gareth Magennis"
<soundser...@outlook.com> wrote:

>However, it's still just an arbitrary measurement. It was based on
>a fraction of the earth's diameter. And derived from a small arc of
>said diameter. Coincidentally it just happened to end up being close
>to the same length of the English yard.
>
>Frequency is another arbitrary system. It is based on the rotation
>of the earth divided by 86,400 for seconds. Or 24 for hours, which
>had already been standardized during the Roman Empire.
>
>The primary advantage of the Metric system is all the units are
>related to one another and divisible by ten. Length, volume, weight
>etc.. Unlike the relationship between inches, ounces (liquid) and
>ounces (weight) that all have different divisors. Inch, feet, yards,
>miles etc..

None of this bullshit will do any good in nature. I am in the middle of
the woods and dont have any tools. I want to measure the distance
between two huge bolders. All I have to do is take off my shoes, begin
by the first bolder and put one foot in front of my other foot until I
get to the second bolder. After 32 foot steps, I arrive at bolder #2. I
now know that the distance between those bolders is 32 FEET.
How much more natural is that? The human body has a built in measuring
device. You dont need no goddamn slide rules and computers to determine
the earth's rotation or any of that nonsense. Just use the FEET that you
got when you were born.

And never forget, the height of the horse that took you out into those
woods is 15 hands tall. Measure from the ground, to the top of his
withers, stacking you hands one on top of the other. You're horse is 15
hands tall. (The withers is the base of the neck where the mane ends, if
you did not know that).

Even today, people measure their horses with hands. Using a tape measure
is horse owner correct, and make you look like a fool. Real cowboys and
cowgirls use HANDS.

However, if you want to cheat, and measure 60 inches with your tape
measure, you have a 15 hand horse. (5 foot tall). One hand is considered
to be 4 inches.

By the way, if your horse is only 10 hands tall, you better not be over
10 years old, because you are too heavy for that Shetland Pony.

[Fox's Mercantile]

On 3/4/18 9:38 PM, olds...@tubes.com wrote:
> [ usual stupidity deleted ]

It's unfortunate you live under a rock, and you're
too stupid to use tools.

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Monday, 5 March 2018 03:41:43 UTC, olds...@tubes.com wrote:

> None of this bullshit will do any good in nature. I am in the middle of
> the woods and dont have any tools. I want to measure the distance
> between two huge bolders. All I have to do is take off my shoes, begin
> by the first bolder and put one foot in front of my other foot until I
> get to the second bolder. After 32 foot steps, I arrive at bolder #2. I
> now know that the distance between those bolders is 32 FEET.
> How much more natural is that? The human body has a built in measuring
> device. You dont need no goddamn slide rules and computers to determine
> the earth's rotation or any of that nonsense. Just use the FEET that you
> got when you were born.

> However, if you want to cheat, and measure 60 inches with your tape
> measure, you have a 15 hand horse. (5 foot tall). One hand is considered
> to be 4 inches.

If I want to measure walkable distances without tools, which occasionally happens, I use yards or metres. Human feet are seldom a foot long.

Don't think I ever met a grown person with 4" hands.


NT

[Chuck]

It is interesting that you mentioned "Okie From Muskogee".
I have been stuck in this backward state for 29 years because my
former wife took a job here. Now I'm divorced and moving back north
in 3 weeks. The state should have a new motto such as " land of" 4
day school weeks or pederast bible thumper politicians or deep well
injection induced earthquakes. It will be nice living in a state that
has the best health care and is no. 1 in quality of life. By the
way, Merle was hip and wrote this song as satire. You might want to
check out Merle's favorite singer Iris DeMent if you still don't get
it.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

[Ralph Phillips]

On 3/4/2018 4:32 AM, olds...@tubes.com wrote:

>
> We still wave Old Glory down at the courthouse,
> In Muskogee, Oklahoma, USA.
>
>

I spend a month there one afternoon back in the 70's.

RwP

[olds...@tubes.com]

On Sun, 04 Mar 2018 12:39:04 -0600, Chuck <c...@dejanews.net> wrote:

>way, Merle was hip and wrote this song as satire. You might want to
>check out Merle's favorite singer Iris DeMent if you still don't get
>it.

Obviously it was a satire. Merle is cool. I like his music.
Some people are just too goddamn serious.... and take everything
literally. Bible thumpers are wayyyyy too serious.....
The south seems like it's full of them types of people.

[olds...@tubes.com]

On Mon, 5 Mar 2018 01:06:24 -0000, "Gareth Magennis"
<soundser...@outlook.com> wrote:

>I'm not interested.
>
>
>Bye.
>

You stand no place of winning with the asshole you were replying to. I
killfiled that Fox Killer long ago. People as hateful as him should not
be allowed online, or in public. But some people were just born to be
assholes I guess.

[Fox's Mercantile]

And some people are just too stupid to walk and breath at the same time.

To have someone like you call me an asshole is a badge of honor I wear
with pride.

[Phil Hobbs]

The 'hand' is the width of the palm, not the finger span.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs
>


--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

[Gareth Magennis]

"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
news:rd4p9dhp8enn48njc...@4ax.com...

*******************************************


Oh dear, hope this helps.




"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
news:54lttb1qr9hovpe6i...@4ax.com...

On Sun, 18 Sep 2016 03:28:27 -0700 (PDT), jurb...@gmail.com wrote:

>>"How am I doing? Your turn. "
>
>I know you are a Jew, but you are a USian Jew.

I was born in Germany. Parents are Polish. Ancestors are mostly
Russian. I came to the USA when I was about 5 years old.

>That means that you got all the arrogance we got plus about 14 % more.

Just because we run everything, manage everything, own everything, and
control everything, doesn't mean we have to arrogant about it. Being
arrogant in public is a quick ticket to an immediate downfall,
something Jews are well aware of. We may be the smartest, best, most
powerful, and most knowledgeable, but it would stupid to mention it in
public. It tends to attract attention, something we really don't need
or want.

[Ron D.]

This degenerated, but I do like the ability to estimate with body parts. 300 mm does nothing for me mentally. 30.0 cm does a better job.

The TS/OP can 3D print a part. Also look for ones that have already been done.

...
Good thing there was no problem with changing from " cps, kcps & Mcps "
to " Hz, kHz and MHz ".

Or was there .....

There was, sort of, I had a valve car Blaupunkt radio whose dial was graduated in increasing wavelength (Not frequency). That's the a RPN (reverse Polish Notation) radio vs an Algebraic radio that everyone uses.

[olds...@tubes.com]

On Mon, 5 Mar 2018 17:14:28 -0500, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:

>> If I want to measure walkable distances without tools, which occasionally happens,
>> I use yards or metres. Human feet are seldom a foot long.

I always wondered who's feet they used to develop the original foot (as
in 12"). Human feet vary greatly in size. Of course children have
shorter feet and women usually do also. Adult males usually
have feet as close to 12" as possible.
In my case, I wear a size 11 shoe. My feet measure 10 5/8" from heel to
tip of longest toe. To measure something with my feet, I'm best off
doing it with my shoes on. They are very close to 12" on the outside. Of
course that too depends on the type of shoe or boot. My big old heavy
winter boots are over 13", but well insulated.

I met a guy once who needs size 15 shoes. Them are some big honking
feet!!! :) He had to go to a special store to buy shoes.

>>
>> Don't think I ever met a grown person with 4" hands.
>
>The 'hand' is the width of the palm, not the finger span.
>

That's Correct.

>Cheers
>
>Phil Hobbs


BTW
In metric, my size 11 shoes would be 27.94cm (28cm). That seems totally
awkward.....

But then there are men who prefer to measure their male organ in metric,
because the number is larger, they seem to think it makes them sound
more masculine. So the average 6" penis is now a 15.24cm penis...
I'm sorry to say, but it's the same damn size, and it wont impress the
women any more !!!

[Fox's Mercantile]

On 3/5/18 11:42 PM, Ron D. wrote:
> There was, sort of, I had a valve car Blaupunkt radio
> whose dial was graduated in increasing wavelength (Not
> frequency). That's the a RPN (reverse Polish Notation)
> radio vs an Algebraic radio that everyone uses.

I have an American made AA5 in the shop that is also
graduated in wavelength rather than frequency.

But my personal favorite is one with 1500 on the left and
550 on the right.

[Mike Coon]

In article <otas9d1pbl3ahijs3...@4ax.com>,
olds...@tubes.com says...

>
> I always wondered who's feet they used to develop the original foot
(as
> in 12"). Human feet vary greatly in size. Of course children have
> shorter feet and women usually do also.

I recommend the love song "...but your feet's too big"! (Fats Waller?)

Mike.

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, 6 March 2018 06:27:04 UTC, Fox's Mercantile wrote:
> On 3/5/18 11:42 PM, Ron D. wrote:

> > There was, sort of, I had a valve car Blaupunkt radio
> > whose dial was graduated in increasing wavelength (Not
> > frequency). That's the a RPN (reverse Polish Notation)
> > radio vs an Algebraic radio that everyone uses.
>
> I have an American made AA5 in the shop that is also
> graduated in wavelength rather than frequency.
>
> But my personal favorite is one with 1500 on the left and
> 550 on the right.

I have radios marked 0-10 or 0-100. They're fun to use.


NT

[John-Del]

Some late 20s superhets used a 0-100 scale, in keeping with the TRF three dial scales.

[Phil Hobbs]

On 03/06/2018 12:42 AM, Ron D. wrote:
> This degenerated, but I do like the ability to estimate with body parts. 300 mm does nothing for me mentally. 30.0 cm does a better job.
>
> The TS/OP can 3D print a part. Also look for ones that have already been done.
>
> ...
> Good thing there was no problem with changing from " cps, kcps & Mcps "
> to " Hz, kHz and MHz ".

I still write Mc on whiteboards and paper schematics, because it's
faster. The official switch to hertz predates me, but I always did like
old radio books--I'm just re-reading "Superregenerative Receivers" by
Whitehead. Magic.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant

ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics

Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
https://hobbs-eo.com

[Jeff Wisnia]

pf...@aol.com wrote:

> As to KM vs. Miles - sheesh! I have driven in 8 countries on three continents. Only one uses MPH. One is courteous enough to put up the signs in both in many locations (Saudi), and one does so on main highways (Both of them - Bahrain). It is _REALLY_ hard to remember that 62.5 MPH = 100 KPH, and that 75 MPH = 120 KPH. And so on and so forth.
>
Every car I can remember being in here in the US of A for quite a number
of years has had a speedometer with MPH and KPH calibrations on it.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.

[jf...@my-deja.com]

On Saturday, March 3, 2018 at 8:21:40 AM UTC-8, pf...@aol.com wrote:
> As to KM vs. Miles - sheesh! I have driven in 8 countries on three continents.
> Only one uses MPH. One is courteous enough to put up the signs in both in many
> locations (Saudi), and one does so on main highways (Both of them - Bahrain).
> It is _REALLY_ hard to remember that 62.5 MPH = 100 KPH, and that 75 MPH = 120
> KPH. And so on and so forth.
>

About a decade ago, I was told that in Ireland the road distances are posted in km whilst the speed limits are given in mph. When I asked a few years ago, I was assured that this was still true. However, from my point of view, this is just hearsay since I have not actually witnessed it.

[Phil Allison]

jf...@my-deja.com wrote:

-------------------------

>
>
> About a decade ago, I was told that in Ireland the road distances are posted in km whilst the speed limits are given in mph.

** Since 2005, Irish speed limits are posted in km/hr.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_speed_limits_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland#Signs



.... Phil

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 00:20:56 -0000, "Gareth Magennis"
<soundser...@outlook.com> wrote:

(...)

>>That means that you got all the arrogance we got plus about 14 % more.

>Just because we run everything, manage everything, own everything, and
>control everything, doesn't mean we have to arrogant about it. Being
>arrogant in public is a quick ticket to an immediate downfall,
>something Jews are well aware of. We may be the smartest, best, most
>powerful, and most knowledgeable, but it would stupid to mention it in
>public. It tends to attract attention, something we really don't need
>or want.

I agree, probably because I wrote that. You really should spend some
time learning how to properly format a Usenet posting, so that my
rants are properly attributed to their rightful author.

On April 19, Israel celebrates 70 years of independence. Every year
for at least the last 15 years, a document approximately titled "Facts
about Israel" is recirculated. Plenty of variations to choose from
online, all of them somewhat different:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=facts+about+israel>
Besides the usual boasting about firsts, Nobel prizes, and innovation,
there are some interesting items of trivia:

<https://jewishnewhaven.org/press-releases/70-surprising-facts-about-israel>
70) Many Jerusalem apartment leases include the strange stipulation
that if and when the Messiah comes, the lease is void and the tenants
must move out.

<https://www.quora.com/Is-Israel-a-normal-country/answer/Aishwarya-300?share=fae3ec62&srid=76iC>
1) There are over 100 sushi restaurants in Tel Aviv...

<https://www.thejc.com/news/israel/65-facts-you-didn-t-know-about-israel-1.43742>
25. Microsoft has more employees in israel than it does per capita
anywhere in the world.

62. Israel is one of only three democracies in the world without a
codified constitution. The others are Britain and New Zealand.

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Friday, 9 March 2018 02:40:52 UTC, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

> 62. Israel is one of only three democracies in the world without a
> codified constitution. The others are Britain and New Zealand.

We (UK) have the Magna Carta. While its provisions are few, one of them is more than a little important.


NT

[peterw...@gmail.com]

On Friday, March 9, 2018 at 6:12:52 AM UTC-5, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:

> We (UK) have the Magna Carta. While its provisions are few, one of them is more than a little important.

The Magna Carta was written between the lesser and the greater nobles - and had very damned little to do with the serfs. Keep that in mind. Just as the US constitution was written by and for white property-owners - those able to vote at the time.

We have this naive way of re-writing history and taking older information and applying it to situations to which it is neither sensitive nor does it apply. For the edification of Old School, The American Constitution (and American Law as it derives from it) was and is based on English Law (as compared to Roman Law, subsequently, Napoleonic Law), and the Magna Carta is the first inkling of that. And, the bedrock of English Law is the principle that *What is not Forbidden, is Permitted". This is the direct opposite of Roman Law. And the 9th & 10 amendments in the Bill of Rights is the direct expression of this. Please note:

The US Constitution does not speak to:
Homosexuality
Marriage
The National Flag
Abortion
Transgenders
Made in USA

nor many of the other red-meat neo-con issues of the present day. By direct application of Constitutional Principles, all of the above are entirely of no consequence within the context of the Social Contract. I suggest you read your Locke.

For what it's worth, the United States has the longest-lived continuous government in the world - for the moment. And, please do not give me crap about England. The British government of today is nothing like it was under George III.

[Mike Coon]

In article <b29b02e9-5852-4f60...@googlegroups.com>,
tabb...@gmail.com says...

I was looking at a presentation on and of Magna Carta in Salisbury on
Wednesday. (Unconnected with the fuss about the poisoning of a russian
spy, his daughter and a policeman in that city last weekend.)

IIRC less than 10% of its provisions are still encoded in current law
according to the modern translation.

Does the US really benefit from having a constitution? E.g. on the
subjects of free speech and gun law?

Mike.

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Friday, 9 March 2018 12:44:34 UTC, pf...@aol.com wrote:

> On Friday, March 9, 2018 at 6:12:52 AM UTC-5, tabby wrote:

> > We (UK) have the Magna Carta. While its provisions are few, one of them is more than a little important.
>
> The Magna Carta was written between the lesser and the greater nobles - and

correct

> had very damned little to do with the serfs. Keep that in mind.

wrong wrong wrong.

XXIX. NO Freeman shall be taken or imprisoned, or be disseised of his Freehold, or Liberties, or free Customs, or be outlawed, or exiled, or any other wise destroyed; nor will We not pass upon him, nor condemn him, but by lawful judgment of his Peers, or by the Law of the land. We will sell to no man, we will not deny or defer to any man either Justice or Right.[228]

> For what it's worth, the United States has the longest-lived continuous government in the world - for the moment. And, please do not give me crap about England. The British government of today is nothing like it was under George III.

I don't plan to, I was just correcting your major error. XXIX is absolutely key.


NT

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Friday, 9 March 2018 12:54:16 UTC, Mike Coon wrote:
> In article <b29b02e9-5852-4f60...@googlegroups.com>,
> tabbypurr says...

> > On Friday, 9 March 2018 02:40:52 UTC, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> >
> > > 62. Israel is one of only three democracies in the world without a
> > > codified constitution. The others are Britain and New Zealand.
> >
> > We (UK) have the Magna Carta. While its provisions are few, one of them is more than a little important.
> >
> >
> > NT
>
> I was looking at a presentation on and of Magna Carta in Salisbury on
> Wednesday. (Unconnected with the fuss about the poisoning of a russian
> spy, his daughter and a policeman in that city last weekend.)
>
> IIRC less than 10% of its provisions are still encoded in current law
> according to the modern translation.

3 bits are still law, of which the one I quoted is rather important. It may not be much quantity of a constitution compared to the US etc, but it's very important nonetheless.

Of course having a constitution does not ensure it gets enforced, as every country can demonstrate.


NT

[peterw...@gmail.com]

On Friday, March 9, 2018 at 8:01:40 AM UTC-5, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:

>
> XXIX. NO Freeman shall be taken or imprisoned, or be disseised of his Freehold, or Liberties, or free Customs, or be outlawed, or exiled, or any other wise destroyed; nor will We not pass upon him, nor condemn him, but by lawful judgment of his Peers, or by the Law of the land. We will sell to no man, we will not deny or defer to any man either Justice or Right.[228]

You must be a very happy individual.

In 1215:

Nobles and the Church held 75% of the land in England, and were less than 1% of the population.

As follows:

Class Holdings % of Population

Nobles & Church 75% <0.1%
Freemen 19% 10%
Villiens <1% 41%
Bordars <5% 32% (House-Villiens more-or-less)
Slaves 0% 7%

Now, let's see some more blather about how the Magna Carta was such a wonderful document when it applied to less than 11% of the population. Seminal, perhaps. But as written and as applied at the time, it kept the villiens in their place and the landowners in theirs.

Taking things out of context and in what appears to be complete ignorance of historical conditions and facts generally not a good practice.

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Friday, 9 March 2018 14:51:28 UTC, pf...@aol.com wrote:

I think you'll find that extract applied to everyone, and still does.


NT

[peterw...@gmail.com]

On Friday, March 9, 2018 at 12:15:07 PM UTC-5, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> I think you'll find that extract applied to everyone, and still does.

I do not think so. "Freeman" was a specific term-of-art at the time (the Latin liber homo) meaning an individual unencumbered by servitude or obligations to a lord or land-owner. NOT a serf (Villien), House-Serf (Bordar) or slave. Freemen could own land, farm it in their own right, 'own' villiens, even Bordars and slaves. Villiens, Bordars or slaves could not and were obligated to their lords.

A Villien was, by definition, not free, but a Freeman could descend into Villieny by loss-of-land or position.

The Magna-Carta as a great emancipation document is wishful thinking. It was a brilliant move by Henry III to define, solidify and enhance his power by seeming to give up something he did not want and did not affect him in any case. Latter day interpretations are much as latter-day interpretations of the US Constitution - as justifications for laws and behaviors that would have evolved in any case and/or would be self-evident were issues of politics, race, class and religion not contaminating human behavior.

Note that Henry lasted 52 years after the latest version of the MC was signed (by him) in 1225. A long time, indeed.

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Friday, 9 March 2018 17:38:42 UTC, pf...@aol.com wrote:

Most of us are today freemen.

[peterw...@gmail.com]

800 years later, that remains debatable. But, under the law-as-an-ideal, sure. As-practiced, not so much unless one is a white male, reasonably well-off and a property owner that votes. As to that latter, and votes per the instructions of the inimitable Alphonse Gabriel Capone - early and often.

[Jeff Liebermann]

That's not a constitution. It's like saying the 613 commandments are
the constitution of Israel.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments>

This might be closer to the mark for England:
<https://www.bl.uk/magna-carta/articles/britains-unwritten-constitution>
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_the_United_Kingdom>

"Let it be un-written, so let it be un-done."
(Apologies to C.B. DeMille and his version of the 10 Commandments).

[peterw...@gmail.com]

The advantage of an unwritten Constitution is that it allows multiple parties to be Right.

The advantage to English Law is that it allows multiple parties and opinions to coexist as it requires compromise in order to function at all.

The disadvantage to both the above is that the are remarkably sloppy and remarkably disorganized. Brits "muddle through" for good reason. But, muddle they do.

[Jeff Liebermann]

Israel did it's best to copy all the mistakes and disadvantages of the
British parliamentary system in 1948. For example, Britain has 650
members of parliament and about 10 active political parties.
<http://www.parliament.uk/mps-lords-and-offices/mps/current-state-of-the-parties/>
The Israeli Knesset has 120 seats, 17 parties with seats, and a huge
number of minor parties that appear and disappear as the crisis of the
day warrants.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_Israel>
Anything worth doing is worth over-doing. Perhaps if Israel increases
the number of seats in the Knesset, the number of parties might
decrease?

Fortunately, there are better ways to settle disagreements available
to middle east politicians:
"Jordan MP challenges firebrand Israeli MK to a duel"
<https://www.timesofisrael.com/jordan-mp-challenges-firebrand-israeli-lawmaker-to-duel/>

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Fri, 09 Mar 2018 12:55:52 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>Fortunately, there are better ways to settle disagreements available
>to middle east politicians:
>"Jordan MP challenges firebrand Israeli MK to a duel"
><https://www.timesofisrael.com/jordan-mp-challenges-firebrand-israeli-lawmaker-to-duel/>

Incidentally, Israel has been debating the merits of having or not
having a written constitution since 1950.
<https://www.knesset.gov.il/description/eng/eng_mimshal_hoka.htm>
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Israel>
70 successful years without a written constitution seems to indicate
that the situation will be permanent. Sorry, but no duels are
currently scheduled in order to settle the matter.

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Friday, 9 March 2018 20:18:40 UTC, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

> On Fri, 9 Mar 2018 03:12:49 -0800 (PST), tabbypurr wrote:
> >On Friday, 9 March 2018 02:40:52 UTC, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> >
> >> 62. Israel is one of only three democracies in the world without a
> >> codified constitution. The others are Britain and New Zealand.
>
> >We (UK) have the Magna Carta. While its provisions are few, one of them is more than a little important.
> >NT
>
> That's not a constitution.

sure it is. It may only have one useful provision, but it's the most important one possible, and is the legal & human rights foundation on which modern Britain exists.


NT