N. Cook

[Gareth Magennis]

I opened a Korg M1 keyboard the other day, to find a previous repairer had
marked and written all over the PCB's.

Something along the lines of "N.Cook switches". And various pen marks
beside screws etc.

Was that you, N.Cook?



Gareth.

[N_Cook]

I mark ribbons and any reorientable screening and metalwork before
disconnecting, thats about it, why would I "sign" my "work"?

[analogdial]

It happens:

Doctor Carved His Initials Into Patient, Lawsuit Says

http://www.nytimes.com/2000/01/22/nyregion/doctor-carved-his-initials-into-patient-lawsuit-says.html

[Ian Field]

"N_Cook" <div...@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:of105e$jbe$1...@dont-email.me...

I found that signing and dating my repairs made it difficult for customers
to present entirely different items as returns.

[Phil Allison]

Ian Field wrote:

----------------

>
>
> I found that signing and dating my repairs made it difficult for customers
> to present entirely different items as returns.
>

** Recording serial numbers is the usual precaution against that one.

Plus recent repair work is generally visible.




.... Phil

[Foxs Mercantile]

On 5/11/2017 7:52 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
> Plus recent repair work is generally visible.

If it's done right, it shouldn't be.


--
Jeff-1.0
wa6fwi
http://www.foxsmercantile.com

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

[Phil Allison]

Foxs Mercantile wrote:

-----------------------

Phil Allison wrote:
>
** Plus recent repair work is generally visible.

>
>
> If it's done right, it shouldn't be.
>

** I've only come across this piece of asinine garbage once before - and the guy who said it was a total idiot.

Electronics repairs are NOT "invisible mending".

It is a GOOD thing if repairs are visible, cos when you come across them then you know what was done.

Trying to make them invisible is 100% ABSRUD.


.... Phil

[John Robertson]

> ..... Phil
>
>

I think what the PP meant was you clean up the solder flux, etc.

One group of folks that might want repairs to be 'invisible' are the
collectors of ancient radio gear. They often want to hide replacement
capacitors in the original package. I can understand that, and will do
it if any customers asked (and charge for the extra time) but hasn't
happened so far. Then again if I was restoring my 1920's battery powered
RCA Radiola (w/WD11 tubes) I would likely hide the modern caps that way
too...

John :-#)#

--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
(604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

[Phil Allison]

John Robertson wrote:
>
> > Foxs Mercantile wrote:
> >
> > -----------------------
> >
> > Phil Allison wrote:
> >>
> > ** Plus recent repair work is generally visible.
> >>
> >>
> >> If it's done right, it shouldn't be.
> >>
> >
> >
> > ** I've only come across this piece of asinine garbage once before
> > - and the guy who said it was a total idiot.
> >
> > Electronics repairs are NOT "invisible mending".
> >
> > It is a GOOD thing if repairs are visible, cos when you come
> > across them then you know what was done.
> >
> > Trying to make them invisible is 100% ABSRUD.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

> I think what the PP meant was you clean up the solder flux, etc.
>

** Does not make repairs invisible - merely tidy.


BTW; PP = previous poster is a new one to me.

>
> One group of folks that might want repairs to be 'invisible' are the
> collectors of ancient radio gear. They often want to hide replacement
> capacitors in the original package.
>

** That is restoration work - not repairs.

Repairers are free to use substitute components and generic types in lieu of the originals. To make an electronic repairs on consumer or most professional electronic invisible would take an extraordinary effort and result in unacceptable cost.

For no good purpose.


.... Phil

[Chuck]

On Thu, 11 May 2017 21:18:28 -0700, John Robertson <sp...@flippers.com>
wrote:

>On 2017/05/11 7:31 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
>> Foxs Mercantile wrote:
>>
>> -----------------------
>>
>> Phil Allison wrote:
>>>
>> ** Plus recent repair work is generally visible.
>>>
>>>
>>> If it's done right, it shouldn't be.
>>>
>>
>>
>> ** I've only come across this piece of asinine garbage once before - and the guy who said it was a total idiot.
>>
>> Electronics repairs are NOT "invisible mending".
>>
>> It is a GOOD thing if repairs are visible, cos when you come across them then you know what was done.
>>
>> Trying to make them invisible is 100% ABSRUD.
>>
>>
>> ..... Phil
>>
>>
>
>I think what the PP meant was you clean up the solder flux, etc.
>
>One group of folks that might want repairs to be 'invisible' are the
>collectors of ancient radio gear. They often want to hide replacement
>capacitors in the original package. I can understand that, and will do
>it if any customers asked (and charge for the extra time) but hasn't
>happened so far. Then again if I was restoring my 1920's battery powered
>RCA Radiola (w/WD11 tubes) I would likely hide the modern caps that way
>too...
>
>John :-#)#

John,

I had a 2 tube Crosley radio in 1970 that used WD11s with a tip. I
couldn't find one back then. Noticed they are available now for
$225.00.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

[ohg...@gmail.com]

On Friday, May 12, 2017 at 12:28:00 AM UTC-4, Phil Allison wrote:
To make an electronic repairs on consumer or most professional electronic invisible would take an extraordinary effort and result in unacceptable cost.
>
> For no good purpose.
>
>
> .... Phil

Well I guess it all comes down to what the definition of "invisible" is (and I'll not ask Bill Clinton..).

Most of my work is surface mount work, and other than the area of rework looking cleaner than the rest, my work is nearly imperceptible, but not on purpose.

I use a lot of flux installing a flat pack IC to insure excellent solder flow out and I always clean the area thoroughly with a fiber brush and acetone. Yes, the cleaning makes the repair mostly invisible but it allows me to eye-loupe the repair looking for any solder bridges, unsoldered connections, or questionable connections, and it takes seconds to accomplish.

[Foxs Mercantile]

On 5/11/2017 9:31 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
> Foxs Mercantile wrote:
>
> -----------------------
>
> Phil Allison wrote:
>>
> ** Plus recent repair work is generally visible.
>>
>>
>> If it's done right, it shouldn't be.
>>
>
>
> ** I've only come across this piece of asinine garbage once
> before - and the guy who said it was a total idiot.

Taking a cue from the master of invective,
"Hey Phil, I hope you get bone cancer and die."

I've seen too many previous repairs with broken terminals or
tube socket pins, burnt wiring harnesses bad soldering and
other completely crap examples of workmanship.

Or on newer stuff, lifted pads and burn marks on PC boards
and excess flux and solder blobs.

Like the Hippocratic Oath, "Do no harm." There's no excuse for
leaving a trail of destruction in the wake of a repair.

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Friday, 12 May 2017 15:00:41 UTC+1, Foxs Mercantile wrote:
> On 5/11/2017 9:31 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
> > Foxs Mercantile wrote:
> > Phil Allison wrote:
> >>
> > ** Plus recent repair work is generally visible.
> >>
> >> If it's done right, it shouldn't be.
> >
> > ** I've only come across this piece of asinine garbage once
> > before - and the guy who said it was a total idiot.
>
> Taking a cue from the master of invective,
> "Hey Phil, I hope you get bone cancer and die."
>
> I've seen too many previous repairs with broken terminals or
> tube socket pins, burnt wiring harnesses bad soldering and
> other completely crap examples of workmanship.
>
> Or on newer stuff, lifted pads and burn marks on PC boards
> and excess flux and solder blobs.
>
> Like the Hippocratic Oath, "Do no harm." There's no excuse for
> leaving a trail of destruction in the wake of a repair.

There is... when what was there was a pile of charcoal. Then destruction is good.


NT

[Ian Field]

"Phil Allison" <palli...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:0402dda5-23f5-411d...@googlegroups.com...

Recent repair work could've been done elsewhere - warranty repairs for items
someone else fucked up is the oldest trick in the book.

Taking the back off and look if I signed and dated it is *MUCH* easier than
searching through a notebook of longer than phone number serial numbers.

[John Robertson]

We have a sticker we put on our customers' boards - it has the shop
name, URL, and work order number (that # is added by pen along with
quantity of boards 1/x, 2/x...x/x).

The sticker serves two purposes - helps us track board repairs when/if
it comes back or customer has trouble, and it is advertising for the
shop - that pays off big time as people buy and sell games all over the
place and I keep getting notes from folks saying something like "I saw
your sticker on a game I just bought - do you service or sell XYZ?"

[Ian Field]

"John Robertson" <sp...@flippers.com> wrote in message
news:8JmdnQ-1f5pdvovE...@giganews.com...

> On 2017/05/12 10:47 AM, Ian Field wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Phil Allison" <palli...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:0402dda5-23f5-411d...@googlegroups.com...
>>> Ian Field wrote:
>>>
>>> ----------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I found that signing and dating my repairs made it difficult for
>>>> customers
>>>> to present entirely different items as returns.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ** Recording serial numbers is the usual precaution against that one.
>>>
>>> Plus recent repair work is generally visible.
>>
>> Recent repair work could've been done elsewhere - warranty repairs for
>> items someone else fucked up is the oldest trick in the book.
>>
>> Taking the back off and look if I signed and dated it is *MUCH* easier
>> than searching through a notebook of longer than phone number serial
>> numbers.
>
> We have a sticker we put on our customers' boards - it has the shop name,
> URL, and work order number (that # is added by pen along with quantity of
> boards 1/x, 2/x...x/x).
>
> The sticker serves two purposes - helps us track board repairs when/if it
> comes back or customer has trouble, and it is advertising for the shop -
> that pays off big time as people buy and sell games all over the place and
> I keep getting notes from folks saying something like "I saw your sticker
> on a game I just bought - do you service or sell XYZ?"

As far as possible, I avoided dealing with Joe public.

My customers were small local businesses and recommendations kept me busy
enough.

Some of them turned up with a van load at a time.

[Phil Allison]

ohg...@gmail.com wrote:

-----------------------

> Phil Allison wrote:
> To make an electronic repairs on consumer or most professional
> electronic invisible would take an extraordinary effort and result
> in unacceptable cost.
> >
> > For no good purpose.
> >
> >
> > .... Phil
>
> Well I guess it all comes down to what the definition of "invisible"

** Wot a pedanict prick.

>
> Most of my work is surface mount work,
>

** Really - that must be really boring.

You do realise how rare it is for repairers to do SMD work ?



...... Phil

[Phil Allison]

The Texas Ranger wrote:
-----------------------
>
> >
> > Phil Allison wrote:
> >>
> > ** Plus recent repair work is generally visible.
> >>
> >>
> >> If it's done right, it shouldn't be.
> >>
> >
> > ** I've only come across this piece of asinine garbage once
> > before - and the guy who said it was a total idiot.
>
>
> Taking a cue from the master of invective,
> "Hey Phil, I hope you get bone cancer and die."
>

** You are one giant asshole - aren't you ?

> I've seen too many previous repairs with broken terminals or
> tube socket pins, burnt wiring harnesses bad soldering and
> other completely crap examples of workmanship.
>

** Completely off the subject.

That the best you got, Tex ???

>
> Like the Hippocratic Oath, "Do no harm." There's no excuse for
> leaving a trail of destruction in the wake of a repair.
>

** Got SFA to do with making repairs invisible.

Go back to you ham radio Tex.



.... Phil

[dansabr...@yahoo.com]

>
> You do realise how rare it is for repairers to do SMD work ?
>
>
>
> ...... Phil

I don't think too rare. Much of my repair work is SMD components.

Your not going to find too many through-hole components in professional video cameras these days...

The same goes for high end touring gear as well. While there are "standard" components, much is SMD these days.

Dan

[Phil Allison]

dansabr...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >
> > You do realise how rare it is for repairers to do SMD work ?
> >
> >
>
>

> I don't think too rare.
>

** It is very rare.

> Much of my repair work is SMD components.
>
> Your not going to find too many through-hole components in professional
> video cameras these days...
>

** Not the point.

Faulty SMD boards are replaced, not repaired, cos the latter is normally too expensive or impossible to do.

> The same goes for high end touring gear as well.

** Could you be more ambiguous?

You obviously work in a very special area and with lots of help from manufacturers.

In the real world, the manufacturer is in China and supplies no help at all.



.... Phil

[ohg...@gmail.com]

On Friday, May 12, 2017 at 8:51:25 PM UTC-4, Phil Allison wrote:

> dansabr...@yahoo.com wrote:

>
> ** Not the point.
>
> Faulty SMD boards are replaced, not repaired, cos the latter is normally too expensive or impossible to do.
>

You do what you have to do to live Phil. A lot of the boards I work on are for consumer level TV, and with the price erosion of the last few years, I can't afford to pay more for a board than a customer is willing to spend in total for a repair. I can replace an AS15F gamma IC on an LCD TCON board in 10 minutes tops, and you'd have to look *very* carefully to see that it was replaced. I buy them 50 at a shot out of China for less than 0.50 each.

There are some boards that defy repair and those need to be replaced, but they are usually a break even deal at best, so we do whatever we can to avoid replacements.

> In the real world, the manufacturer is in China and supplies no help at all.

> .... Phil

True. No schematics, no .bin files, no help. But we adapt by utilizing the datasheets for the ICs on the boards. Fortunately, manufacturers no longer deface ICs and/or put house numbers on them, so using the "typical" circuit topology provided by the chip maker goes a long way in replacing the missing schematic.

Every main board that has a 25 series eeprom gets the .bin file removed, read, and stored on my computer (and backed up to half a dozen flash drives). A lot of main boards just have corrupted firmware, and I can pull an eeprom, reprogram it, and get it back on the board in 10 minutes.

I love getting guitar amps in because the guys want them back right away and don't care a lot about cost. It's nice to work on parts that I don't need to wear opti-visors to repair.

I do the occasional "antique" tube radio because it's a lot of fun to bring these old timers back to life.

[Phil Allison]

ohg...@gmail.com wrote:

-----------------------

> >
> > ** Not the point.
> >
> > Faulty SMD boards are replaced, not repaired, cos the latter is
> > normally too expensive or impossible to do.
> >
>
> You do what you have to do to live Phil.
>



>

> > In the real world, the manufacturer is in China and supplies no
> > help at all.
>
>

> True. No schematics, no .bin files, no help.

** And crucially no spare ICs are sold, only whole PCBs.

What YOU claim YOU sometimes do is unheard of in this country.

Cos it is completely uneconomic.



.... Phil

[jurb...@gmail.com]

>"Taking the back off and look if I signed and dated it is *MUCH* easier than
searching through a notebook of longer than phone number serial numbers. "

Even better, put the last four digits of the SN on the receipt which they must bring in to get warranty service. In some cases it is on a sticker, in which case you can etch it into something inside the cabinet.

[John Robertson]

Different market. My shop fixes coin operated amusement machines, hourly
rate is good, and people appreciate us as we are one ot he few
professional shops around that deals with these games.

>
> My customers were small local businesses and recommendations kept me
> busy enough.

Other than our customers are mostly private we seem to get a lot of
referrals.

>
> Some of them turned up with a van load at a time.

We keep a wait list (285 folks on the list = bigger shop needed, so
moving this week and next, and have to hire more people) - too many jobs!

[dansabr...@yahoo.com]

>
> You do realise how rare it is for repairers to do SMD work ?
>
>
>
> ...... Phil

I don't think too rare. Much of my repair work is SMD components.

Your not going to find too many through-hole components in professional video cameras these days...

[Gareth Magennis]

wrote in message
news:724d6cf4-bedf-42a5...@googlegroups.com...

**********************************************************************************************



I am increasingly finding my work turning from linear PSU's and through hole
components, to SMPS and SMD.
This is mostly MI and Pro Audio.


So, you adapt or die.
I now have a hot air station and a microscope.

I regularly replace SMD op-amps, multi pin flatpack USB and firewire IC's,
and keep coming across new SMPS controllers.
With these, you can just download the datasheet, which usually gives you an
advisory circuit on it's use, which is very often pretty much what the
manufacturer used for his design.

Agreed, there is NO support from ANYTHING coming out of China. No parts,
nothing.


I struggled at first with all this, but actually quite like a challenge, and
learning new things.
And I have learnt a lot.



I would suggest anyone needing to make the leap from old school to current
school check out Louis Rossmann videos on Youtube.
He mostly repairs Apple laptops, all SMD.
You don't have to like him, or his methods, but watch his videos and you
will learn some skills you can adapt and put into good practice in your own
world.


I have.




Gareth.

[Trevor Wilson]

**Yup. I had a guy who brought in an NAD amp for service. It was duly
fixed. He brought it back 2 weeks later for an almost identical repair.
I was surprised, so I checked my records and noted that the serial
numbers failed to match. Arsehole.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

[Ian Field]

"Trevor Wilson" <tre...@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:enp6gk...@mid.individual.net...

One of the shops I narrowly avoided doing business with allegedly sent a
printer under warranty back to Epson - when they took it apart, they found
that serial numbers on individual parts were allocated to over a dozen
different printers.

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <ncJRA.45721$tm3....@fx37.am4>,
soundser...@outlook.com says...

>
>
>
> I would suggest anyone needing to make the leap from old school to current
> school check out Louis Rossmann videos on Youtube.
> He mostly repairs Apple laptops, all SMD.
> You don't have to like him, or his methods, but watch his videos and you
> will learn some skills you can adapt and put into good practice in your own
> world.
>
>
>

I am retired and never worked with the SMD. I watched many of the
Rossmann youtubes to learn about how to work with the SMD. If you don't
mind his tlk, he gives some very good ideas and teaching about them. I
bought one of the microscopes he recommended and an inexpensive hot air
and soldering iron station for about $ 65. While I don't think it would
hold up under much usage, it works well for hobby usage. If I was using
the tools to make any money with, I would buy a better hot air station.

There are several other good videos on youtube that show how to work
with the smd. I think there is a woman named Jessica that does a lot of
them.

I really like working with the smd better than the through hole devices
once I find the problem. Found the kapton tape to keep the hot air off
parts that are close in works well. It just takes the correct tools to
make it easy to work with.

[Gareth Magennis]

"Ralph Mowery" wrote in message
news:MPG.338136ccf...@news.east.earthlink.net...

***********************************************************



Yep, once you learn what you need to do the job, then you can start to do
the jobs, properly.




Gareth.

[ohg...@gmail.com]

On Friday, May 12, 2017 at 10:38:26 PM UTC-4, Phil Allison wrote:
> ohg...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> -----------------------
>
> > >
> > > ** Not the point.
> > >
> > > Faulty SMD boards are replaced, not repaired, cos the latter is
> > > normally too expensive or impossible to do.
> > >
> >
> > You do what you have to do to live Phil.
> >
>
>
>
> >
> > > In the real world, the manufacturer is in China and supplies no
> > > help at all.
> >
> >
> > True. No schematics, no .bin files, no help.
>
>
> ** And crucially no spare ICs are sold, only whole PCBs.

I don't know what you're working on, but there is *rarely* an IC that can't be bought on Aliexpress. I also buy LED chips for flat TVs a thousand at a shot for $20. Sometimes it takes a bit of time to identify these parts but they are available, and manufacturers no longer remove the OEM's number and replace it with a house number (fortunately).

> What YOU claim YOU sometimes do is unheard of in this country.

I can't speak for anything in Australia, but I assume China ships to Oz, no?

> Cos it is completely uneconomic.
>

Can't speak for your country, but the only way we make money over here is to replace at the smd component level. It is the *only* economic way to repair over here.

[jurb...@gmail.com]

>"**Yup. I had a guy who brought in an NAD amp for service. It was duly
fixed. He brought it back 2 weeks later for an almost identical repair.
I was surprised, so I checked my records and noted that the serial
numbers failed to match. Arsehole. "

I know I said I almost never call the police, I lock and load, but in this case I would have called the law and had him charged with fraud.

People think Trump U committed fraud but if that's the case all colleges do it, especially liberal arts, art history and all that. And making you take all kinds of irrelevant courses for shit you'll never use. Trumpp gioving the money back was just good public relations, they would have never made it stick because the "elements of the crime" simply were not there. There is enough to criticize him about without making shit up. Every college in this country should be sued. Look for a video called "The College Conspiracy".

But when they pull that shit it is out and out fraud.

Either that or I would just keep the unit and say I don't have it. "Look, this is the serial number of your unit, if you can find a unit with that serial number on it in this shop it is yours". In fact I would write a ticket for the unit with the "new" serial number and put someone's name on it I knew and tell them what is going on.

And when the crook shows up tell him "Go ahead and call the law MF"

[Gareth Magennis]

I know I said I almost never call the police, I lock and load, but in this
case I would have called the law and had him charged with fraud.

Either that or I would just keep the unit and say I don't have it. "Look,
this is the serial number of your unit, if you can find a unit with that
serial number on it in this shop it is yours".







In fact I would write a ticket for the unit with the "new" serial number and
put someone's name on it I knew and tell them what is going on.

****************************************************************************************************************



Well that would be fraud then.

No wonder people hate you kind of people.



Gareth.

[tabb...@gmail.com]

Then you lose the customer. Sometimes that's ok, sometimes not. I'd either return it and say it's not the unit repaired, they must have picked up the wrong one by mistake. Or repair it and not hand it over until the repair bill was paid.


NT

[ohg...@gmail.com]

On Saturday, May 13, 2017 at 7:25:42 PM UTC-4, Gareth Magennis wrote:

> No wonder people hate you kind of people.
>
>
>
> Gareth.

I've been reading Jeff's posts for over 20 years on and off on this group, and although I've never met him, I can promise you that he was just spitballing. I've often fantasized about diabolical things I could do to deserving customers, but of course never did. Sometimes the fantasy has to be enough..

[rickman]

On 5/13/2017 6:05 PM, jurb...@gmail.com wrote:
>> "**Yup. I had a guy who brought in an NAD amp for service. It was duly
> fixed. He brought it back 2 weeks later for an almost identical repair.
> I was surprised, so I checked my records and noted that the serial
> numbers failed to match. Arsehole. "
>
> I know I said I almost never call the police, I lock and load, but in this case I would have called the law and had him charged with fraud.

You are such a bull artist. "Lock and load" That's a laugh if I ever
heard one.

--

Rick C

[Trevor Wilson]

**Which is precisely my approach. I knew and I am certain the customer
knew what he was doing. I simply provided a way he could avoid being
labelled a criminal. That way I could continue to do business with him.

Or repair it and not hand it over
> until the repair bill was paid.

**That is a given, unless the client is a very good one.



--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

[Phil Allison]

ohg...@gmail.com wrote:

-------------------------

> >
> > >
> > > > In the real world, the manufacturer is in China and supplies no
> > > > help at all.
> > >
> > >
> > > True. No schematics, no .bin files, no help.
> >
> >
> > ** And crucially no spare ICs are sold, only whole PCBs.
>
> I don't know what you're working on, but there is *rarely* an IC
> that can't be bought on Aliexpress.
>

** There are massive numbers of them that cannot.

All the older stuff and anything programed for starters.

I do not service TVs.

>
> > What YOU claim YOU sometimes do is unheard of in this country.
>
> I can't speak for anything in Australia, but I assume China ships to Oz, no?
>

** Cut out he smartarse crap.

>
> > Cos it is completely uneconomic.
> >
>
> Can't speak for your country, but the only way we make money over
> here is to replace at the smd component level.
>

** Which, like I say, nobody here does and darn few elsewhere.




.... Phil

[Phil Allison]

jurb...@gmail.com wrote:

-------------------------

> >"**Yup. I had a guy who brought in an NAD amp for service. It was duly
> fixed. He brought it back 2 weeks later for an almost identical repair.
> I was surprised, so I checked my records and noted that the serial
> numbers failed to match. Arsehole. "
>
>
> I know I said I almost never call the police, I lock and load,
> but in this case I would have called the law and had him charged with fraud.
>
>

** Not even faintly possible.

The customer likely made a mistake about which amp was recently serviced.


.... Phil

[Clifford Heath]

I'm curious now - where is "over here"?.

I'm guessing your average wage is under $5/hour.

[bitrex]

On 05/13/2017 06:05 PM, jurb...@gmail.com wrote:
>> "**Yup. I had a guy who brought in an NAD amp for service. It was duly
> fixed. He brought it back 2 weeks later for an almost identical repair.
> I was surprised, so I checked my records and noted that the serial
> numbers failed to match. Arsehole. "
>
> I know I said I almost never call the police, I lock and load, but in this case I would have called the law and had him charged with fraud.
>
> People think Trump U committed fraud but if that's the case all colleges do it, especially liberal arts, art history and all that. And making you take all kinds of irrelevant courses for shit you'll never use. Trumpp gioving the money back was just good public relations, they would have never made it stick because the "elements of the crime" simply were not there. There is enough to criticize him about without making shit up. Every college in this country should be sued. Look for a video called "The College Conspiracy".

What's wrong with art history? Do you not like art?

You have a weird notion of what colleges, even liberal arts colleges,
are like.

[ohg...@gmail.com]

"Over here" is the United States. I work in Waterbury, Connecticut and live in the 'burbs. It's on the East Coast about 90 minutes from New York City.

I don't know why you'd guess a wage of $5 per hour, but let me pose this to you: A TV (say) comes in and it has no HDMI functions. The main board cost me $130 dollars from the salvage companies, and $220 new (if available).

In stock, I have the HDMI port processor IC that's a 72 pin QFN. We see a lot of these fail in the summer because the HDMI is hypersensitive to storm damage.

https://www.semiconductorstore.com/pdf/newsite/SiliconImage/SiI9287_DB.pdf

The IC cost me $2.50 delivered and takes 20 minutes to change - 15 of that is the board sitting on the preheater (during which time I can have a snack, listen to sports radio, or watch porn on my computer...).

Tell me, do I make more per hour replacing that IC or do I make more spending $130 to $225 for the board?

One universal truth in any business is *Time Is Money*. It's just as tangible as any other cost a business will incur. I can have said TV on and off the bench in one hour complete. Buying a board cuts my profit by a large margin and the TV needs to sit a week while I wait for it (and hope the board is good or carries the correct software).

It's been said that necessity is the mother of invention, and I can promise you that if you needed to adapt to doing surface mount work to make money, you'd do it. Yes, there are some people who haven't the hands for this type of work but I'd say the majority of people can learn these techniques if suitably motivated.

[rickman]

On 5/13/2017 6:05 PM, jurb...@gmail.com wrote:

>> "**Yup. I had a guy who brought in an NAD amp for service. It was
>> duly
> fixed. He brought it back 2 weeks later for an almost identical
> repair. I was surprised, so I checked my records and noted that the
> serial numbers failed to match. Arsehole. "
>
> I know I said I almost never call the police, I lock and load, but in
> this case I would have called the law and had him charged with fraud.
>
>
> People think Trump U committed fraud but if that's the case all
> colleges do it, especially liberal arts, art history and all that.
> And making you take all kinds of irrelevant courses for shit you'll
> never use. Trumpp gioving the money back was just good public
> relations, they would have never made it stick because the "elements
> of the crime" simply were not there. There is enough to criticize him
> about without making shit up. Every college in this country should be
> sued. Look for a video called "The College Conspiracy".

Uh, didn't Trump settle that issue? I believe there were a number of
lawsuits and the state of New York was pursuing him. "Trump had
publicly vowed not to settle the lawsuits", but he did. I think it is
pretty clear his university was a crock.

If there was no case there was no reason to settle the suit. Legal
costs would be a fraction of the $25 million paid out. Trump would not
have been bothered any more than he was in running the University which
he didn't do. It couldn't have possibly looked any worse for him than
the multitude of crap he has pulled since being in office. But then I
guess he couldn't see that since he thinks everyone is overreacting to
the anti-constitutional acts he has made.

Why is it that when it is discovered that Trump is doing something wrong
the common response is to say "Johny is doing it too!" Let's just talk
about Trump.

> But when they pull that shit it is out and out fraud.
>
> Either that or I would just keep the unit and say I don't have it.
> "Look, this is the serial number of your unit, if you can find a unit
> with that serial number on it in this shop it is yours". In fact I
> would write a ticket for the unit with the "new" serial number and
> put someone's name on it I knew and tell them what is going on.
>
> And when the crook shows up tell him "Go ahead and call the law MF"

As someone has already pointed out, that makes YOU the con artist.

--

Rick C

[Ian Field]

<jurb...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:c38b0bba-99f1-4a11...@googlegroups.com...

>>"**Yup. I had a guy who brought in an NAD amp for service. It was duly
> fixed. He brought it back 2 weeks later for an almost identical repair.
> I was surprised, so I checked my records and noted that the serial
> numbers failed to match. Arsehole. "
>
> I know I said I almost never call the police, I lock and load, but in this
> case I would have called the law and had him charged with fraud.

No doubt its a criminal offence - but so far I've never heard of anyone
filing charges.

[Clifford Heath]

On 15/05/17 00:51, ohg...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, May 13, 2017 at 11:42:42 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote:
>> On 14/05/17 07:35, ohg...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Friday, May 12, 2017 at 10:38:26 PM UTC-4, Phil Allison wrote:
>>> I can't speak for anything in Australia, but I assume China ships to Oz, no?
>>>> Cos it is completely uneconomic.
>>> Can't speak for your country, but the only way we make money over here is to replace at the smd component level. It is the *only* economic way to repair over here.
>>
>> I'm curious now - where is "over here"?.
>>
>> I'm guessing your average wage is under $5/hour.
>
> "Over here" is the United States. I work in Waterbury, Connecticut and live in the 'burbs. It's on the East Coast about 90 minutes from New York City.
>
> I don't know why you'd guess a wage of $5 per hour, but let me pose this to you: A TV (say) comes in and it has no HDMI functions. The main board cost me $130 dollars from the salvage companies, and $220 new (if available).
>
> In stock, I have the HDMI port processor IC that's a 72 pin QFN. We see a lot of these fail in the summer because the HDMI is hypersensitive to storm damage.
>

> I can have said TV on and off the bench in one hour complete.

Good for you. I'd waste more than that chasing faults.
Changing the IC not so much of a problem once you know
what's wrong, but apparently you do.

[Gareth Magennis]

"Clifford Heath" wrote in message news:GV4SA.69347$sS7....@fx40.iad...

*************************************************************



Well that comes with experience.

Every time I have had a soundcard repair where the Firewire doesn't work, it
has been successfully repaired by changing this chip.
They are cheap. Takes maybe half an hour.

https://cdn.europosters.eu/image/1300/1124.jpg


Gareth.

[Gareth Magennis]

Oops, that appears to be Kylie Minogue on a rocket.


Not sure how that happened.



Here is the chip:
http://www.shtengel.com/gleb/Scanners/Nikon_8000_Firewire_replacement_n2.jpg



Gareth.

[Trevor Wilson]

On 13/05/2017 3:47 AM, Ian Field wrote:
>
>
> "Phil Allison" <palli...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:0402dda5-23f5-411d...@googlegroups.com...

>> Ian Field wrote:
>>
>> ----------------
>>>
>>>
>>> I found that signing and dating my repairs made it difficult for
>>> customers
>>> to present entirely different items as returns.
>>>
>>
>>
>> ** Recording serial numbers is the usual precaution against that one.
>>
>> Plus recent repair work is generally visible.
>

> Recent repair work could've been done elsewhere - warranty repairs for
> items someone else fucked up is the oldest trick in the book.
>
> Taking the back off and look if I signed and dated it is *MUCH* easier
> than searching through a notebook of longer than phone number serial
> numbers.

**Whilst I have tagged my repairs with a job number and date for a very
long time, I keep an old Windows database (originally ported from dbase
III) where I can search for repairs, by date, customer name, serial
number, job number or even part number. It takes less than a second to
search any parameter. Since the software was originally DOS based, it is
extremely compact (even in Windows form). I can run it from a USB stick
as small as 10MB. The whole thing cost me a slab of beer to have written.

--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <N45SA.44608$M66....@fx27.am4>,
soundser...@outlook.com says...

>
> Good for you. I'd waste more than that chasing faults.
> Changing the IC not so much of a problem once you know
> what's wrong, but apparently you do.
>
>
>
>
> *************************************************************
>
>
>
> Well that comes with experience.
>
> Every time I have had a soundcard repair where the Firewire doesn't work, it
> has been successfully repaired by changing this chip.
> They are cheap. Takes maybe half an hour.
>
> https://cdn.europosters.eu/image/1300/1124.jpg
>
>
> Gareth.

The first time one runs into a problem it often takes time to find it.
After 2 or 3 times one does not take time to do any trouble shooting,
just replace that part that is bad 90 or more % of the time.

Many problems are often caused by the smae part or parts. If they are
not too expensive or hard to replace, just try that first.

[rickman]

It's only criminal if there was intent. This could easily have been a
mistake as someone else pointed out. I'm not saying it *was* a mistake,
but I think there would need to be some proof of intent to get a charge
filed.

As others have said, it would be completely reasonable to fix the
problem and bill the customer. No harm, no foul, you get paid in full.

--

Rick C

[jurb...@gmail.com]

>"No wonder people hate you kind of people. "

If someone tries to defraud me I am perfectly justified in defrauding them. If you don't like it, just don't try to defraud me.

You aren't in the US I assume. Well that is the way it is, how much hate do you have ?

[jurb...@gmail.com]

>"Or repair it and not hand it over until the repair bill was paid."

Can't do that in Ohio. It used to be, and I never heard of any change, that if you repair the unit they can go to the law and make you pay them double the repair bill and give them the unit repaired for free.

It is a harsh law for servicers but was written to punish unscrupulous car repair shops that either just fixed it or went way over the repair estimate and then took the car. People were losing their car because the bill was twice what was expected and they simply did not have the money. Now they don't have a car either.

We had to have a rubber stamp for the invoices until the ran out and the new ones had the estimate statement on them - pretty much what was on the rubber stamp.

[jurb...@gmail.com]

."You are such a bull artist. "Lock and load" That's a laugh if I ever
heard one. "

Try climbing in my back window in the middle of the night to test your theory.

Buy I will admit it is bullshit because I have a revolver and the term "lock and load" does not apply. And it will be cocked so grabbing the turret so it can't turn won't save you.

[jurb...@gmail.com]

>"The customer likely made a mistake about which amp was recently serviced. "

Maybe where you are, but this is the US.

[jurb...@gmail.com]

>"What's wrong with art history? Do you not like art? "

There are very few jobs in the field. Learn something useful and then study arts in your spare time.

[rickman]

On 5/15/2017 2:59 AM, jurb...@gmail.com wrote:
>> "Or repair it and not hand it over until the repair bill was paid."
>
> Can't do that in Ohio. It used to be, and I never heard of any change, that if you repair the unit they can go to the law and make you pay them double the repair bill and give them the unit repaired for free.

What are you talking about??? If you repair a unit you have to pay
THEM? How do you make any money?

> It is a harsh law for servicers but was written to punish unscrupulous car repair shops that either just fixed it or went way over the repair estimate and then took the car. People were losing their car because the bill was twice what was expected and they simply did not have the money. Now they don't have a car either.

I think you have not explained the law very well. What does the law say
exactly?

> We had to have a rubber stamp for the invoices until the ran out and the new ones had the estimate statement on them - pretty much what was on the rubber stamp.

I also can't make sense of this. What does the rubber stamp have
written on it?

--

Rick C

[rickman]

On 5/15/2017 3:05 AM, jurb...@gmail.com wrote:
>> "The customer likely made a mistake about which amp was recently serviced. "
>
> Maybe where you are, but this is the US.

That's right, in the US everyone is out to get you! Only the mistaken
make mistakes!!!

--

Rick C

[Foxs Mercantile]

On 5/15/2017 9:16 AM, rickman wrote:
> I also can't make sense of this.

It's jurb6006, he makes as much sense as Cook does.
Except Nigel does it without all the conspiracy theories
and dick waving.

--
Jeff-1.0
wa6fwi
http://www.foxsmercantile.com

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

[ohg...@gmail.com]

On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 10:16:41 AM UTC-4, rickman wrote:
> On 5/15/2017 2:59 AM, jurb...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> "Or repair it and not hand it over until the repair bill was paid."
> >
> > Can't do that in Ohio. It used to be, and I never heard of any change, that if you repair the unit they can go to the law and make you pay them double the repair bill and give them the unit repaired for free.
>
> What are you talking about??? If you repair a unit you have to pay
> THEM? How do you make any money?

I'm pretty sure he's talking about prior estimate approval. I haven't run into this personally because I communicate directly with every customer and I'm very clear on this (well, there's one exception I may bore you all later with).

If an item is repaired without the estimate being approved, the customer doesn't have to pay for it. I'm only aware of double or treble damages being awarded to the customer in small claims court cases in the event of fraud, but laws vary state by state.

In the case we're talking about, if said customer brings in an identical item for warranty repair in an attempt to defraud, and you complete the repair and bill for it because you know it's not the same item, he doesn't have to pay for it if you haven't gotten prior approval. You of course have the option of unrepairing the item and returning it in it's original condition.

In the auto business where I live (CT), a work order *must* be signed by the customer before any work is done. Even if there's no complaint by the customer, the DMV here in Connecticut will heavily fine or even shutter an auto business that doesn't get work orders signed. If anyone thinks the Nazis moved to Argentina after the war, they're wrong: they moved to Connecticut and are writing business regulations here.

[jurb...@gmail.com]

>"What are you talking about??? If you repair a unit you have to pay
THEM? How do you make any money? "

You make money by not repairing a unit until you have an OK on the estimate.

>"I think you have not explained the law very well. What does the law say
exactly? "

I just looked it up and there was a change in 2015. I was in business in the 1980s.

The tamp just read

[] Written estimate
[] Oral estimate
[] No estimate
Cust init _________

It was a very punitive law and actually needed to be changed. There are alot of circumstances in which it is completely off base.

Let's say the mechanic thinks you need a head gasket but must check to see if the head is cracked. Well you can't reuse a head gasket so once apart he has to put in a new one anyway. In fact in newer cars you can't even reuse the bolts and the last set I bought was $80.

Actually if he finds the head cracked and you don't OK it's replacement (or repair) the gasket doesn't matter. But it is about the same labor.

This law was over 30 years ago and of course things change. One thing that seems to be lacking on the net is old laws.

It was very consumer oriented. Buddy of mine bought a new car battery, but it was a discontinued model. They refused to honor the warranty when it went bad on that basis. It is not so biased for the consumer anymore. Jut like landlord tenant laws, they had to be changed. People could not evict dope dealers because they had kids, and then the house gets boarded up. People got sick of it.

I agree the law was crazy, but there are plenty of crazy laws in this country. That's why even if there were any jobs to come back they aren't coming back.

I don't even want a service business these days. People are too stupid. "The power switch is broken", yeah after you rammed it with a friggin hammer because you have a "Dead set". And you put a flyback in a bigscreen and the convergence goes, they think you have to fix that for free.

All the explaining in the world doesn't do shit for the really ignorant. I told them they would be paying agsain at any other shop, but the boss was a softie. Guy says "No I wouldn't" and I said "Then you would have a non working TV". Try to explain to them the if I put a transmission in your car and the engine blows, that is not covered. They are so dense these days I want no part of it. Maybe I'll do a little bit of vintage audio in the basement but that is about it.

Looks like USA stands for United Stupid Assholes.

[jurb...@gmail.com]

>"If an item is repaired without the estimate being approved, the customer doesn't have to pay for it. I'm only aware of double or treble damages being awarded to the customer in small claims court cases in the event of fraud, but laws vary state by state. "

another thing not to take lying down is when it i s taking too long and they want their unit back now, unrepaired. I ttell them, OK pay the bill. But it isn't fixed. Well I got parts on order for it that I can't cancel and when you OKed that estimate you entered into a contract to pay that amount. Call your lawyer.

Not my softie ex-boss though. He must come from a different world or something. Know what one SOB did ? Well, it was a big shop and we misplaced a TV. Customer was of course not happy and sued. Well we found the TV and called the customer, who said he was going to drop the suit, so there was no need to go. Then the SOB gets a default judgement because nobody from our side showed up. Is that not fraud
?

People are out to get whatever they can by any means possible.

[ohg...@gmail.com]

On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 1:18:39 PM UTC-4, jurb...@gmail.com wrote:
>>Know what one SOB did ? Well, it was a big shop and we misplaced a TV. Customer was of course not happy and sued. Well we found the TV and called the customer, who said he was going to drop the suit, so there was no need to go. Then the SOB gets a default judgement because nobody from our side showed up. Is that not fraud?

Yes, it's fraud. But if your boss was paying attention, he would have known that the case would have been found in the customer's favor "without prejudice". This means that the case could be reopened in case there was an extenuating circumstance to explain the no-show or a procedural error.

Most people I took to small claims didn't bother to show because they knew they were wrong, but some would file to reopen just to bust my ass. I learned that when the judge says the case is dismissed in my favor "with prejudice" because the defendant was a no-show, I then presented evidence that would show the customer was a nut job. Most times the judge changed the dismissal in my favor to "with prejudice".

[Gareth Magennis]

wrote in message
news:5bebf8dd-d25a-4629...@googlegroups.com...

*********************************************************************



Look, how about don't be a dick when met with a dick.
It doesn't help.

[Foxs Mercantile]

On 5/15/2017 4:05 PM, Gareth Magennis wrote:
> Look, how about don't be a dick when met with a dick.
> It doesn't help.

Unfortunately, that concept is entirely beyond some people.

[rickman]

On 5/15/2017 11:13 AM, ohg...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 10:16:41 AM UTC-4, rickman wrote:
>> On 5/15/2017 2:59 AM, jurb...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> "Or repair it and not hand it over until the repair bill was
>>>> paid."
>>>
>>> Can't do that in Ohio. It used to be, and I never heard of any
>>> change, that if you repair the unit they can go to the law and
>>> make you pay them double the repair bill and give them the unit
>>> repaired for free.
>>
>> What are you talking about??? If you repair a unit you have to pay
>> THEM? How do you make any money?
>
> I'm pretty sure he's talking about prior estimate approval. I
> haven't run into this personally because I communicate directly with
> every customer and I'm very clear on this (well, there's one
> exception I may bore you all later with).
>
> If an item is repaired without the estimate being approved, the
> customer doesn't have to pay for it. I'm only aware of double or
> treble damages being awarded to the customer in small claims court
> cases in the event of fraud, but laws vary state by state.

Ok, but his customer dropped it off for repair saying it was under
warranty. Since it is not under warranty it can't be repaired until the
customer is given the chance to approve the estimate. I get that.

> In the case we're talking about, if said customer brings in an
> identical item for warranty repair in an attempt to defraud, and you
> complete the repair and bill for it because you know it's not the
> same item, he doesn't have to pay for it if you haven't gotten prior
> approval. You of course have the option of unrepairing the item and
> returning it in it's original condition.
>
> In the auto business where I live (CT), a work order *must* be signed
> by the customer before any work is done. Even if there's no
> complaint by the customer, the DMV here in Connecticut will heavily
> fine or even shutter an auto business that doesn't get work orders
> signed. If anyone thinks the Nazis moved to Argentina after the war,
> they're wrong: they moved to Connecticut and are writing business
> regulations here.

Yeah, but a signed work order doesn't protect the customer. I've taken
stuff in before and said I want an estimate and the FIX the damn thing
before they call me. The fine print on the work order seems to say I'm
authorizing anything they do. I don't know how to get my car fixed
without signing one of these things unless I do it myself.

--

Rick C

[rickman]

On 5/15/2017 1:10 PM, jurb...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Looks like USA stands for United Stupid Assholes.

I may have my problems, but I am so glad I am not you.

--

Rick C

[jurb...@gmail.com]

>"> Looks like USA stands for United Stupid Assholes.

I may have my problems, but I am so glad I am not you. "

You don't know the half of it.

Granted there are some areas better than others, but in the cities people are rotten.

[Dave Platt]

In article <ofe3op$e3o$1...@dont-email.me>, rickman <gnu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Yeah, but a signed work order doesn't protect the customer. I've taken
>stuff in before and said I want an estimate and the FIX the damn thing
>before they call me. The fine print on the work order seems to say I'm
>authorizing anything they do. I don't know how to get my car fixed
>without signing one of these things unless I do it myself.

Here in California, behavior like that on the part of any auto-repair
business would be a violation of the law, and they could have their
license pulled for doing it.

Here's the page on the legal situation and advice in
California... other states' laws may vary.

https://www.bar.ca.gov/consumer/auto_repair_guide.html

They give some very good advice. In particular "Know Your Rights",
and "Before you sign, be sure you understand the work the technician
will do. Your signature means you agree to pay for the repairs up to
the amount specified. Do not sign a blank work order."

A work order is a contract. As with any contract, the terms are
largely negotiable, and it's not binding until it's signed. Signing a
blank work order (one without an agreed-upon upper limit) is legally
like signing a blank check. Not a good idea. Revising a contract
offered to you, before you sign it, is your right: whether the shop
chooses to accept and be bound by the altered contract is the
and decision.

If the "fine print on the work order seems to say I'm authorizing
anything they do", feel free to draw a line through it with your pen
("striking it out") before you sign. Initial and date the line-out
when you do it, so it's clear that you removed it from the contract.

If they haven't filled in an amount for doing the estimate, ask
specifically "What do you charge for investigating the problem and
giving me an estimate for the repair?"

If they say there's no charge, write "$0.00" in the maximum-
authorized-charge area before you sign it. If they give you a price,
write in that amount.

Then, sign the authorization. Keep one copy.

At that point, if they do any work on the car, then they have accepted
your contract as it was when you signed it. They're bound to the
amount on the form, and can't legally charge you more than that.

If they go ahead and do a repair without giving you the estimate and
getting your authorization, it's on them.

If they refuse to work on your car without having a blank work
order... leave. Find another auto-repair shop. And, consider
reporting the offender's behavior to your state's licensing
organization.

[Disclaimer: I Am Not A Lawyer Nor Do I Play One On Television. Check
your states' laws to see how this situation plays out in your area.
Know your rights, and your obligations.]

[tabb...@gmail.com]

We don't have a law like that here in UK. Customers are routinely taken advantage of.


NT

[rickman]

There is no such law here in the US. That sort of thing is regulated at
the state level and good luck getting anything done about a shop without
having to rent a car until the matter is settled.

--

Rick C