TIP: avoiding dried up/blocked ink-jet carts

[N_Cook]

Printer only used monthly , perhaps when new then parking in the cart
dock at the side perhaps works, but not when years old.
A bit of a bind, but less of a bind than squirting air-duster etc to
unblock an ink cart etc etc. At the end of each session remove the
carts. Grab a couple of couple of large party balloons with the neck
cut off.
Stretch over the active face of each cart with a drop of
meths/denatured-alcahol in each balloon and store on a ledge with
balloons dangling.

[tabb...@gmail.com]

How many cycles are the printer to cart connectors rated for?


NT

[mako...@yahoo.com]

On Tuesday, April 10, 2018 at 1:01:52 PM UTC-4, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, 10 April 2018 16:20:14 UTC+1, N_Cook wrote:
> > Printer only used monthly , perhaps when new then parking in the cart
> > dock at the side perhaps works, but not when years old.
> > A bit of a bind, but less of a bind than squirting air-duster etc to
> > unblock an ink cart etc etc. At the end of each session remove the
> > carts. Grab a couple of couple of large party balloons with the neck
> > cut off.
> > Stretch over the active face of each cart with a drop of
> > meths/denatured-alcahol in each balloon and store on a ledge with
> > balloons dangling.

get a cheap laser printer and stop fussing with it
best thing i ever did
m

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, 10 April 2018 18:37:34 UTC+1, mako...@yahoo.com wrote:

+100

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <79889b83-c584-4f32...@googlegroups.com>,
tabb...@gmail.com says...

> get a cheap laser printer and stop fussing with it
> > best thing i ever did
> > m
>
> +100
>
>

Same here.

I don't print much and got one of the Samsung laser printers for less
than $ 150. Don't recall the price, but it was one of the all in one
types. The HP ink is almost as much as that printer was for a set of
Black and color cartrages

Just printers are much less.

[jurb...@gmail.com]

What about when the heads are not integral to the carts ? If this one here cleans up OK it would be nice to avoid it in the future.

Note this is someone else's printer, I have a LASER. However it is in the basement and people might not want to go all the way down there to print, or when I get it back on the network, to grab their stuff out of it.

My other option would be to move it to a more central location but space is a problem, the thing is big.

[Tim R]

On Tuesday, April 10, 2018 at 2:27:47 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
> In article <79889b83-c584-4f32...@googlegroups.com>,
> tabb...@gmail.com says...
> > get a cheap laser printer and stop fussing with it
> > > best thing i ever did
> > > m
> >
> > +100
> >
> >
>
> Same here.
>

Me too. Black and white is plenty for 99.9% of what I print. (mostly music) The rest I email to Walmart or Staples. I'm still on the first toner cartridge and it's been several years now. Of course those aren't cheap.

When the kids were in school we needed color for projects. Not any more.

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, 10 April 2018 19:37:50 UTC+1, Tim R wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 10, 2018 at 2:27:47 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
> > In article <79889b83-c584-4f32...@googlegroups.com>,

> > tabbypurr says...

> > > get a cheap laser printer and stop fussing with it
> > > > best thing i ever did
> > > > m
> > >
> > > +100
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Same here.
> >
> Me too. Black and white is plenty for 99.9% of what I print. (mostly music) The rest I email to Walmart or Staples. I'm still on the first toner cartridge and it's been several years now. Of course those aren't cheap.
>
> When the kids were in school we needed color for projects. Not any more.

Reminds me of the times when I did 2 colour printing on a B&W printer. Quite glad they're over! Daisy wheel it was, one print in black, 2nd pass in black with italic daisywheel, 3rd pass with red ribbon.


NT

[N_Cook]

I should say this is for 3 print-offs on card per month for posters. I
doubt I'll be buying a colour laser m/c. I could see myself going to a
High St print shop once a month or perhaps getting 20 or so generic card
posters done at such a print shop and then overprint with my trusty
monochrome HP laser printer, just the changing details once a month. I
doubt the so-called cheap colour laser printers will allow 300gm/m^2 or
stiffer card through them.

[gregz]

My Canon I hardly use. It just uses ink even while off. Lucky I found cheap
cartridges takes 5.

Greg

[Jon Elson]

The ONLY way to avoid bloced jet nozzles is to TOTALLY AVOID inkjet
printers. I CURSE the things! I curse my stupidity in rescuing some of
them from the trash at work and trying to make them work.

We had some at work, and every Monday morning I had to fiddle with them to
get them unblocked. Just 2 days idle during the weekend and they were in
trouble.

Give me a laser printer, please! (Wax jet is the 2nd choice, but the ink is
expensive.)

Jon

[N_Cook]

I was watching the latest David Attenborough natural history series and
nature got there first. Apparently the mottled colouration on bird eggs
is due to an inkjet printer like process. The caulm containg yolk and
albumen is rotated in a chamber with multiple ducts that eject a
different colour calcium based chemical formulation at different times
building up the patterning, clever stuff. Millions of years before
Epson,Canon, HP etc

[et...@whidbey.com]

That is so cool. I had no idea that was how the eggs got that look.
Thanks for posting.
Eric

[N_Cook]

If it was anyone else other than Attenborough saying that, I'd have
disbelieved them. I've never seen an egg with streaks on it, so
difficult to believe that mechanism.

[pedro]

On Thu, 12 Apr 2018 17:52:20 -0500, Jon Elson <jme...@wustl.edu>
wrote:

>Just 2 days idle during the weekend and they were in
>trouble.

That sounds rather like Epson with separate heads/carts. Got so tired
of trying to revitalise those that I swore off Epson completely.

Still have an olde HP900 series inker that seems to fire up fine about
every six months, and a Canon that rattles/clunks/whirrs for about 90
seconds at every power-up. Good thing nearly all our printing needs
are mono and met elegantly/economically with an HP Laser.

[Bob Engelhardt]

I had a rarely used Lexmark (yearly cartridge replacement, more or
less). I had it for years and never had a blockage. Only got rid of it
because there was no driver for Windows 10.

[John-Del]

On Friday, April 13, 2018 at 2:37:30 PM UTC-4, N_Cook wrote:
I've never seen an egg with streaks on it, so
> difficult to believe that mechanism.

That's because Epson doesn't print eggs...

[N_Cook]

Another thing Epson failed to deal with - generating the substrate at
the same time as the image. You have to supply your own paper, how
stupid in comparison to nature.

[jurb...@gmail.com]

I just cleaned a Brother.

Has separate ink cartridges, the head stays. It wasn't the head, the tubes were clogged up. The black was actually what was clogged up, the others had air pockets in them. Probably got run too low for too long. I looked around the internet and found out that apparently Windex is safe to use. So I took some tubing, removed the feed (and lost the clip) and blew Windex through the tube. then I fashioned a spring thing to hold what the clip used to hold and let er rip with a bunch of black only cleaning cycles to purge the cleaner and get ink in there.

The ink in the black tube actually looked dried out. I guess that;s what happens when there is air in it.

It works now. The colors don't come out absolutely perfect on the test page but we'll do a bunch of color printing with the new ink in it and that should take care of it. They are obviously not dried up because they work.

My last two jobs, at what they billed my labor you could have bought at least four of these printers with a fresh set of cartridges each, and then some. They would definitely never take another one in once they found out how cheap they are. But I am in frugal mode right now.

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <0d2f9d3f-3a12-408e...@googlegroups.com>,
jurb...@gmail.com says...

Unless you have a heavy duty printer, it is often better just to get a
new one. With printers less than $ 70 and some less than $ 50, just get
a new one and the ink cartridges for less than $ 150. A repair bill
will cost a lot and then you still have to pay for the ink.

Company my son works for got talked into a deal with Canon for their
printers. It is a large company,but they have 3 men just for office type
printers. Most of the time they just sit around. For what they pay for
that conract, they could probalby buy everyone a new printer every year.

[peterw...@gmail.com]

We have an Epson eco-tank unit. It reminds us to print something on the first of each month. So far, so good. Not the cheapest printer in the pack, but it meets our modest needs. The double-sided print feature is also appealing.

We do about 80 pages per month to various ends.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

[jurb...@gmail.com]

>"Unless you have a heavy duty printer, it is often better just to get a
new one."

1. I got time on my hands.

2. I am sick of this "You can buy" shit, all of which sends our borrowed money overseas. And if you think YOU don't use credit, the dollars are on credit. Anytime I can keep money from foreigners I think that is good.

I do have a LASER printer, but this one avoids a trip to the basement. It's also the only FAX machine in the house and while it would send it wouldn't print so... Also could not print the confirmation of a sent FAX.

I am also going through stuff to work on, I got time. I haven't been able to work for awhile so I need to get my legs back so to speak. Next is a microwave bought in 1992. When they were $ 89 this one was $ 150 wholesale. A new one will not outlast it. It has a burned out light, a bad connection, I think to the gate of the triac, and I am going to trow a capacitor in it whether it is good or not. (seems like it used to have more power.

New and improved means improved profits for the manufacturer, cheaper to produce and as a result harder to work on usually.

>"For what they pay for that conract, they could probalby buy everyone a new printer every year. "

Well, a local grocery store has 8 oz. cans of sauce or 20 cents or a 15.5 ox can of he same thing for 69 cents. A bag boy didn't set those prices. Don't expect brains from anyone.

And now, if this printer ever needs cleaning agian it will be a 15 minute job.

[jurb...@gmail.com]

>"We do about 80 pages per month to various ends. "

I do even less than that, except for now because I have a court case and am going pro se. But because I print less I have to buy a more expensive printer - a LASER. I also like that the prints are waterproof, and a few other things proof. Seems like an inkjet print bleeds from looking at it and thinking about water. But get that ink on your hands and...

[peterw...@gmail.com]

On Monday, April 23, 2018 at 11:43:47 AM UTC-4, jurb...@gmail.com wrote:
> >"Unless you have a heavy duty printer, it is often better just to get a
> new one."
>
> 1. I got time on my hands.

Idle hands are the Devil's workshop.

>
> 2. I am sick of this "You can buy" shit, all of which sends our borrowed money overseas. And if you think YOU don't use credit, the dollars are on credit. Anytime I can keep money from foreigners I think that is good.

At one level, true. At another, the more of our dollars that are in foreign hands, the more interest those foreigners have in our continued survival. If our dollars become useless, theirs are no more than fire-starters.

>
> I do have a LASER printer, but this one avoids a trip to the basement. It's also the only FAX machine in the house and while it would send it wouldn't print so... Also could not print the confirmation of a sent FAX.

Cleaning a printer-head is, typically, not a huge job unless that printer has been sitting for a very long time, or in extreme conditions. Keeping in mind that the alternative is landfill, using unusual means and methods is fair game. Back when we did have an HP inkjet device - one that clogged every couple-of-days, 99% alcohol was my go-to cleaner. Get an old ink cartridge, fill it with alcohol - off you go. Got tired of that and went to the Epsom. No regrets so far.

>
> I am also going through stuff to work on, I got time. I haven't been able to work for awhile so I need to get my legs back so to speak. Next is a microwave bought in 1992. When they were $ 89 this one was $ 150 wholesale. A new one will not outlast it. It has a burned out light, a bad connection, I think to the gate of the triac, and I am going to trow a capacitor in it whether it is good or not. (seems like it used to have more power.

With all due respect, a little research is mandated on this one. "New" microwaves from legitimate manufacturers are lighter, more powerful, and far more refined that those from the Amana Radarange days. Our present three units are 12, 8 and 6 years old respectively. The oldest gets the heaviest use. But the newest one knows the difference between three different kinds of popcorn, knows how to actually 'bake' a potato, or even three of them, and will also defrost without parboiling.

>
> New and improved means improved profits for the manufacturer, cheaper to produce and as a result harder to work on usually.

There is that. But it is entirely possible to purchase a good, serviceable, well-made and well designed product in about every category. Won't be the cheapest, however. I keep speakers made in Minnesota over 40 years ago. The company is still in business, and still sells parts for every speaker they have ever made. I can't even write that about my AR speakers.

>
> >"For what they pay for that conract, they could probalby buy everyone a new printer every year. "
>
> Well, a local grocery store has 8 oz. cans of sauce or 20 cents or a 15.5 ox can of he same thing for 69 cents. A bag boy didn't set those prices. Don't expect brains from anyone.

Same thing (same manufacturer, same ingredients list), or generic same thing? Just curious.

>
> And now, if this printer ever needs cleaning agian it will be a 15 minute job.

Sure,and as it should be.

BTW, as most of what we do requires color, and what business printing I do at home requires heavy color-coding, a color laser printer would be prohibitively expensive, not to mention supplies and service.

The issue on water reminds me of my college days. Penn and Princeton are huge Ivy League rivals, usually alternating at each other's location for Homecoming. Public restroom - Penn student walks in, uses the urinal and walks out. Princeton student says: "At Princeton, we are taught to wash our hands after using the urinal.". Penn Student: "At Penn, we are taught not to piss on our fingers."

About covers it.

[Fox's Mercantile]

On 4/23/18 10:46 AM, jurb...@gmail.com wrote:
> I have a court case and am going pro se.

A lawyer that represents himself has a fool for his client.



--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Monday, 23 April 2018 20:03:33 UTC+1, Fox's Mercantile wrote:
> On 4/23/18 10:46 AM, jurb...@gmail.com wrote:

> > I have a court case and am going pro se.
>
> A lawyer that represents himself has a fool for his client.

I've done that for small claims. The other side was the fool, paying a lawyer more than the claim amount for a case they couldn't win.


NT

[John-Del]

On Monday, April 23, 2018 at 1:44:11 PM UTC-4, pf...@aol.com wrote:

>
> With all due respect, a little research is mandated on this one. "New" microwaves from legitimate manufacturers are lighter, more powerful, and far more refined that those from the Amana Radarange days.
>

My brother had an Amana from the mid 70s, back when Amana had a distribution deal with Zenith. Aaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnd he still has it. In his kitchen. Heats stuff in it. Every day. Never quit... It went from new, to old fashioned, to retro. I think the door weighs 15 lbs.

IIRC our wholesale price was over $500; righteous bucks in them days, but this had an unique for the time feature - a true digital soft touch capacitance keypad.

In 1985 when I got married, the same brother gave me a microwave for a gift. This was a Litton that was also bullet proof. About 15 years ago when it was already over 20 years old my buddy stopped by one Saturday afternoon when I had the whole thing torn down to clean the beejeezus out of it after my bride entered one extra zero when making popped corn. The smell of badly burned popped corn is only a little less offensive than skunk and lasts about as long. My buddy asked me why I didn't just go buy a new one rather than take the time to clean it, and I told him that this one would last longer than if I did replace it.

Fast forward to three years ago and the computer on the Litton started getting wonky. I finally retired it and bought an Emerson, that lasted a year. I know have a Frigidaire.. We'll see how long this one goes.

[The Real Bev]

No lawyers allowed in local Small Claims Court, but they're allowed in
appeals.

I won one where I had to explain the defendant's viewpoint to the judge
as well as my own. I also explained to the defendant that if he refused
to pay I would have the marshals seize his car and auction it off. I
had to explain it twice.

Hint: you can't blame God for your own faulty maintenance.

--
Cheers, Bev
HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays
is used as a kind of divining rod to locate expensive bike parts not
far from the object we are trying to hit.

[Fox's Mercantile]

On 4/23/18 4:32 PM, John-Del wrote:
> Fast forward to three years ago and the computer on the Litton
> started getting wonky. I finally retired it and bought an
> Emerson, that lasted a year.

You're doing it wrong, for the past 15 years, every microwave
I've bought was $10-15 at a thrift store.

Everyone I've bought is still working.

An excellent ROI.

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, 24 April 2018 00:16:39 UTC+1, Fox's Mercantile wrote:
> On 4/23/18 4:32 PM, John-Del wrote:

> > Fast forward to three years ago and the computer on the Litton
> > started getting wonky. I finally retired it and bought an
> > Emerson, that lasted a year.
>
> You're doing it wrong, for the past 15 years, every microwave
> I've bought was $10-15 at a thrift store.
>
> Everyone I've bought is still working.
>
> An excellent ROI.

The upside to that approach is that the ones that died young are weeded out. The downside is there's often something wrong with them or they'll annoying in some odd way.


NT

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Monday, 23 April 2018 22:32:51 UTC+1, John-Del wrote:
> On Monday, April 23, 2018 at 1:44:11 PM UTC-4, pf...@aol.com wrote:

> > With all due respect, a little research is mandated on this one. "New" microwaves from legitimate manufacturers are lighter, more powerful, and far more refined that those from the Amana Radarange days.

Lighter, yes the cases are thinner. I don't see a significant upside to that, and it makes them noisier.
More powerful? Sometimes, sometimes not. I don't see a significant upside to it though.
More refined? 5 or 10 power levels does beat 2. Other than that I don't think controls have improved any. The old mechanical timers are still common on new machines and quicker to use than digital. One of my digitals is plastered with utterly useless buttons, with the few useful ones buried in among them. Designed by an idiot or someone from the marketing dept.
One thing that does beat the old Amanas is modern interlock safety, in other respects I don't think new ones are a significant improvement.

Oh, yes there is an exception. If an old microwave has no turntable, forget it, those ones are hopeless and a food poisoning risk.
And another... I once encountered one so ancient (pre-Amana) that it continued cooking until the door was a long way open. Not good.


NT

[The Real Bev]

My mom didn't want one, so we forced a yard-sale microwave on her -- if
she didn't like it she could give or throw it away. She, of course,
loved it until it stopped working. Hubby took it apart and found a
dried mouse deep inside -- it must have gotten in during factory
assembly, there was no other way. He removed it and did something else,
and it worked fine.

To her credit, she continued to use it until her boss gave her a new one
for Xmas. Women were tougher in those days.

The cheap ($90?) Panasonic we bought at Costco in 2012 is still working
fine.

--
Cheers, Bev
"I don't trust carry-out food. When you find hair in my cooking
you don't hafta worry about where it came from!" -- Dinette Set

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <pbm7gb$311$1...@dont-email.me>, bashl...@gmail.com says...

>
> My mom didn't want one, so we forced a yard-sale microwave on her -- if
> she didn't like it she could give or throw it away. She, of course,
> loved it until it stopped working. Hubby took it apart and found a
> dried mouse deep inside -- it must have gotten in during factory
> assembly, there was no other way. He removed it and did something else,
> and it worked fine.
>
>

My mom was an excellent cook for everyday southern meals. She never
wanted a MW. Dad bought her one for Christmas around 1980. After she
used it a few time, she would not give it up for warming things over.

After her and dad passed away out MW gave out after about 20 years, the
mechanical timer wore out. We got her old one and still use it.

[John-Del]

On Monday, April 23, 2018 at 10:06:32 PM UTC-4, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:

> Oh, yes there is an exception. If an old microwave has no turntable, forget it, those ones are hopeless and a food poisoning risk.

My last two MWs have turntables, and they *still* require frequent dish movement to keep cooking more or less even. The turntable helps, but I spend as much time moving the dish as I did in my old Litton without a turntable.

Of course, even with a turntable, any thick casserole or soup dish requires constant stirring lest you want a scalding hot dish with an icy cold center (my brother calls that the Katherine Heigl effect....)

[jurb...@gmail.com]

>"Oh, yes there is an exception. If an old microwave has no turntable, forget it, those ones are hopeless and a food poisoning risk. "

The turntable is actually a cheap way out of real engineering. Microwaves without them "stir" the waves with a reflector at the top which is motor driven, usually off the fan and some of them just use the air flow to blow them into turning.

Now if you have a microwave with both, there's a good one and I believe that's what we have here. Remember that $ 150 was wholesale because I worked there, AND I was told it was a special price at that. he bought a bunch of them and most went to friends and family. The only thing more expensive in table ovens was a convection microwave which requires a 30 amp dedicated circuit, but could cook a turkey in about a half hour.

[jurb...@gmail.com]

>"But the newest one knows the difference between three different kinds of popcorn, knows how to actually 'bake' a potato, or even three of them, and will also defrost without parboiling."

I can do that by using it right. I can also adjust the car seats and mirrors myself, turn the courtesy lights on and off myself. I'm just a dinosaur I guess, after all, how many people do you know who can do a longhand square root ? No batteries for the calculator ? No problem.

About the popcorn. I bought a used waterbed from a buddy who came over to help set it up. First he says I'll never be able to fill it with warm water but I did, two hot water heaters :-) So he has his olady and kids over as well and brought microwave popcorn. Did I mention my microwave's nickname was Chernobyl ? So it says 5 minutes and it got stuck in for 5 minutes. Opening the door we discovered that it was literally on fire. I said "I think it's done".

And then the shop microwave from years before, you know a 12 cut 16" pizza ? Extra large ? Well I could slide a whole one in there including the box. Talk about designing a microwave ? It is not the easiest thing in the world to make those waves spread over that much area, and yes I said area. Notice the bigger ones are also higher, while a wider and deeper interior would be more useful. Easier to design. They are rated in cubic ft., so the numbers look marvelous, but how often do you stack stuff on top of each other in the microwave ? "Oh, but it takes up so much counter spacer !", whine and bitch, whine and bitch. Look, when you figure out how to build a TARDIS like Dr Who, we will use that technology so that in the space of a coffeepot you can nuke a moose, OK ?

[jurb...@gmail.com]

>"I keep speakers made in Minnesota over 40 years ago. The company is still in business, and still sells parts for every speaker they have ever made. I can't even write that about my AR speakers. "

What brand. I might be interested in some one day.

I have a pair of AR93Qs that need all the foams and tweeters, I am considering fixing them up. I've heard some good things about them. I DO like the idea of 4 ohms. If an amp can't handle 4 ohms I consider it junk. I used to run a newer Pioneer into 2.3 ohms with a window fan on it for cooling. If you forgot to turn the fan on it smelled like a clothes iron left on too high. Obviously it has no current limiting but surprisingly it still works. It is integrated but has the shittiest preamp section I have ever seen.

Anyway, AR was affiliated with Olson's right ? They have been out of business long enough for a military pension. The 93Qs seem pretty nice, side firing 8" woofers and 8" midrange, and the midrange is open back but in a section of the cabinet that is sequestered from the rear woofer radiation. They can use a lower crossover frequency from woofers to mid, which is usually good. And they are a sealed system which I like. Even if they have less bass it is better bass. They are also much heavier than they look.

[peterw...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, April 24, 2018 at 10:49:43 AM UTC-4, jurb...@gmail.com wrote:
> >"I keep speakers made in Minnesota over 40 years ago. The company is still in business, and still sells parts for every speaker they have ever made. I can't even write that about my AR speakers. "
>
> What brand. I might be interested in some one day.

Magnepan. Great Bear Lake, MN

Magnepan MG-IIIa, 6' x 2' x 2" planar speakers. Nothing else like them on earth.

The 93Q is well worth fixing. I would estimate about 2 hours per, then overnight curing. I have done enough surrounds as I would be a bit faster than that, but not by much.

I keep 3a, 4ax, 28, M5 and Athenas from AR. As well as a pair of TSW-110s at the summer house.

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, 24 April 2018 15:23:15 UTC+1, jurb...@gmail.com wrote:
NT:

> >"Oh, yes there is an exception. If an old microwave has no turntable, forget it, those ones are hopeless and a food poisoning risk. "
>
> The turntable is actually a cheap way out of real engineering.

it's sound engineering

> Microwaves without them "stir" the waves with a reflector at the top which is motor driven, usually off the fan and some of them just use the air flow to blow them into turning.

yes, with abysmally uneven cooking as the result.

> Now if you have a microwave with both, there's a good one and I believe

yes, those are best for cooking evenness. Of course it still doesn't counter the tendency for things to be boiling on the outside & ice in the centre.


NT

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, 24 April 2018 15:37:05 UTC+1, jurb...@gmail.com wrote:

> >"But the newest one knows the difference between three different kinds of popcorn, knows how to actually 'bake' a potato, or even three of them, and will also defrost without parboiling."
>
> I can do that by using it right. I can also adjust the car seats and mirrors myself, turn the courtesy lights on and off myself. I'm just a dinosaur I guess,

probably a great feature for the truly stupid, and certainly there are such folk. To me all that is just junk, bad design.


NT

[peterw...@gmail.com]

To which I add the differences between the average tube-based Euro radio made between say.... 1950 and 1980, and the average American tube radio of the same era.

Euro radio:

a) Never use one part when four-or-more would do.
b) Let's make the controls very, very fussy, with lots of moving parts.
c) Let's make the chassis an integral part of the cabinet (case) including wires, springs, tuning mechanisms and speakers.
d) Let's make services as simple as changing a dial lamp the work of several hours.
e) And after all that, let's make just about every radio look the same, but make very sure that there are no interchangeable parts but-for the tubes - and not all of those.

American Radio:
a) Five (5) tubes, exceptionally, sometimes six (6).
b) If we can make one part do five things, go for it!
c) Who needs a power-transformer?
d) Let's let the industrial designers go nuts. Colors? Sure. Shapes? Whatever can be molded.
e) Let's all make all our radios from a palette of perhaps two dozen interchangeable parts in all, including tubes.

And so it goes. Our oldest microwave, now 12 years old, is a GE countertop that sits on our third floor and is used by a couple of seminary students we are sponsoring. Every day. They keep it sort-of-clean such that I have to power-wash it maybe twice a year. I remember paying $50 for it as a direct-purchase from GE as part of their bulk-buyer program.

Our newest is an over-stove Frigidaire at the summer house, at about 6 years, used during the summers only, and then only lightly. Does the trick and as a vent-hood and stove light is not at all bad. More features than we would normally get, but we purchased it as a 'remainder' from a general contractor at the end of a large project. NIB, but it had sat on the site for two years. No issues, and at $75, a bargain.

The middle one is, at 8 years, the most feature-laden, a Panasonic countertop model that knows the difference between one and three Idaho potatoes when asked to bake them, and between 'regular', 'diet' and 'jumbo' popcorn packages, without being told. At 1,200 watts, it will cook. The point is not that it has these features, but that having the features is a way of accident avoidance. Sure, I know how many minutes each type of popcorn should take, but by hitting a single button, the chances of mis-entry are reduced. And so forth.

A poor workman blames his tools, but a good one picks the right tool for the job and relies upon it.

[Chuck]

I heard somewhere recently that Jim Winey is not doing so well. Love
his speakers and since i just moved back to MN., I hope to visit the
factory again in the near future.

[jurb...@gmail.com]

>"Magnepan. Great Bear Lake, MN"

Friend of mine had a p[air of MG-1 (I think A) and they were pretty damn good. He sold them mainly due to size and the fact that he could make money on them, he got them for $ 100. The guy he bought them from said they rattled at high volume, we figured we would have to work on them, I looked it up, there are things to glue etc. on them. But we took them up to about 100 WPC with alot bass and they were fine at that level, and the seller had guess what - bigger pair of Maggies.

In his room they actually sounded better backwards. (Boseapans ? lol) Don't know where the highs were coming from but they came, it the HF driver also bipolar ? I would guess so.

Speaking of planars, I would like to at least hear a pair of Quad ESL-63s. There's something I might buy if I hit tho lotto, not a new car for sure. But I don't play because it is a sucker bet.

I had some ideas for electrostatic speakers, could have worked but I found out it had been tried. I guess it wasn't worth the trouble sonically. I was going to take some 6MJ6sw or other horizontal output tubes and run them stacked and bridged to eliminate all the transformers, making it DC coupled. I think I would have had to run them stacked in series (like an Ampzilla) to get the required voltage. not a cheap undertaking but neither are ESLs in the first place.

Ever see the schematic for the ESL-63s ? Thing has a delay line with several taps. It is said that the sound is like it is coming from behind the speaker, that's probably why.

Some say those Maggies lack bass. I found them not to be "heavy" by any stretch, bit not really lacking. For my use I would have used subwoofers with them, but I am a bass freak.

[jurb...@gmail.com]

>>"them into turning.

>yes, with abysmally uneven cooking as the result. "

Some of them weren't all that bad. Chernobyl wasn't bad, and the one at the shop wasn't bad, but then those were not $ 59 specials either. They were BIG.

>"Of course it still doesn't counter the tendency for things to be boiling on the outside & ice in the centre. "

Yup, people think they cook from the inside out but that is an old Husband's tale. They heat the water in the food.

And there are no power levels, the supposed power levels are just duty cycle turning the magnetron on and off. (I wonder if it accelerates cathode stripping) I only saw one microwave with 2 actual power levels and it was ancient. It actually had an extra tap on the primary of the power transformer to cut the voltage. I don't remember but I assume it would have to have a separate filament transformer, but back when they were willing to put more than ten bucks into a $ 300 item we got things like that.

[jurb...@gmail.com]

>"probably a great feature for the truly stupid, and certainly there are such folk. "

I used to wonder what went through some people's mind, but I wonder no more. NOTHING goes through their mind.

I used to flip some cars for extra money. (back when there was such a thing as extra money) So I have this shitcan on the paper. Little Dodge Omni had needed a clutch. The ad said "4-cylinder, 4 door, 4 speed, $ 400. People cal and ask "Do it have a cassette ?".

No, it has a 400 disc changer and a 2,000 watt competition stereo system with bluetooth which hasn't even been invented yet, when would you like to come and test drive it ?

Friend of mine sells a car. Guy calls a few hours later and says "Hey, this car don't run", "Is there gas in it ?". Click.

What happened to the median percentiles ? People either qualify for MENSA or a Darwin award and not much common sense in between.

[jurb...@gmail.com]

>"To which I add the differences between the average tube-based Euro radio made between say.... 1950 and 1980, and the average American tube radio of the same era. "

But Euro is the bomb !

Look at new cars, want an aftermarket radio ? In the old days it was two nuts in front and a bolt in the back, now you have to cut the HVAC controls off of it, get a kit from Crutchfield and be handy enough to build the damn thing.

[Terry Schwartz]

White Bear Lake. About a long stone's throw from me. I grew up spending my summers on that lake.

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, 24 April 2018 19:32:13 UTC+1, pf...@aol.com wrote:

> To which I add the differences between the average tube-based Euro radio made between say.... 1950 and 1980, and the average American tube radio of the same era.
>
> Euro radio:
>
> a) Never use one part when four-or-more would do.
> b) Let's make the controls very, very fussy, with lots of moving parts.
> c) Let's make the chassis an integral part of the cabinet (case) including wires, springs, tuning mechanisms and speakers.
> d) Let's make services as simple as changing a dial lamp the work of several hours.
> e) And after all that, let's make just about every radio look the same, but make very sure that there are no interchangeable parts but-for the tubes - and not all of those.
>
> American Radio:
> a) Five (5) tubes, exceptionally, sometimes six (6).
> b) If we can make one part do five things, go for it!
> c) Who needs a power-transformer?
> d) Let's let the industrial designers go nuts. Colors? Sure. Shapes? Whatever can be molded.
> e) Let's all make all our radios from a palette of perhaps two dozen interchangeable parts in all, including tubes.

your lists don't represent the euro valve radios I've worked on by any means

> The middle one is, at 8 years, the most feature-laden, a Panasonic countertop model that knows the difference between one and three Idaho potatoes when asked to bake them, and between 'regular', 'diet' and 'jumbo' popcorn packages, without being told. At 1,200 watts, it will cook. The point is not that it has these features, but that having the features is a way of accident avoidance. Sure, I know how many minutes each type of popcorn should take, but by hitting a single button, the chances of mis-entry are reduced. And so forth.
>
> A poor workman blames his tools, but a good one picks the right tool for the job and relies upon it.
>
> Peter Wieck
> Melrose Park, PA

and doesn't buy the tool with a great big pile of gimmick features


NT

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, 24 April 2018 21:45:10 UTC+1, jurb...@gmail.com wrote:

> Speaking of planars, I would like to at least hear a pair of Quad ESL-63s. There's something I might buy if I hit tho lotto, not a new car for sure. But I don't play because it is a sucker bet.
>
> I had some ideas for electrostatic speakers, could have worked but I found out it had been tried. I guess it wasn't worth the trouble sonically. I was going to take some 6MJ6sw or other horizontal output tubes and run them stacked and bridged to eliminate all the transformers, making it DC coupled. I think I would have had to run them stacked in series (like an Ampzilla) to get the required voltage. not a cheap undertaking but neither are ESLs in the first place.
>
> Ever see the schematic for the ESL-63s ? Thing has a delay line with several taps. It is said that the sound is like it is coming from behind the speaker, that's probably why.
>
> Some say those Maggies lack bass. I found them not to be "heavy" by any stretch, bit not really lacking. For my use I would have used subwoofers with them, but I am a bass freak.

ESL57s are pretty awesome, though I wouldn't say they look good.

Would you really need to stack LOP tubes?
Static speakers can be quite simple, they used to get used driven directly IIRC as tweeters in some stuff.

The delay is necessary in the Quads so the treble is a bit more point sourced, and you don't get the outer edges cancelling the sound produced by the centre as the latter passes by the former.


NT

[tabb...@gmail.com]

The most common way to do reduced power in the early 70s was with an HV cap & HV switch. If you're going to cook a mousse that's the sort you want.

You could reduce both filament & anode (or cathode really), that would work. It's how they used to run bright emitters in the 20s.


NT

[jurb...@gmail.com]

>"Would you really need to stack LOP tubes? "

I think the max plate voltage of a 6MJ6 is about 5 KV, so it wouldn't quite do it, even bridged, I think.

>"The most common way to do reduced power in the early 70s was with an HV cap & HV switch."

You mean like a lower value cap for the lower power level ?

>"It's how they used to run bright emitters in the 20s. "

What is a "bright emitter" ?

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, 25 April 2018 07:58:34 UTC+1, jurb...@gmail.com wrote:
NT:

> >"Would you really need to stack LOP tubes? "
>
> I think the max plate voltage of a 6MJ6 is about 5 KV, so it wouldn't quite do it, even bridged, I think.

Picking the first random ES design I see 475v dc bias.

> >"The most common way to do reduced power in the early 70s was with an HV cap & HV switch."
>
> You mean like a lower value cap for the lower power level ?

2nd smaller cap in series with the ac HV feed, shorted for full power.

> >"It's how they used to run bright emitters in the 20s. "
>
> What is a "bright emitter" ?

before dull valve emitters were discovered, valves/tubes used thoriated tungsten direct heated bright emitters. They ran white hot. Nuke magnetrons use thoriated tungsten bright emitters.


NT

[peterw...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, April 25, 2018 at 6:02:47 AM UTC-4, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:

> before dull valve emitters were discovered, valves/tubes used thoriated tungsten direct heated bright emitters. They ran white hot. Nuke magnetrons use thoriated tungsten bright emitters.

These must go back to pre-DeForest days??

I have some direct-heat thorated tungsten 00, 01 and 71A tubes, as well as a number of UV99s and similar. Not a one of them gets much past a mild orange.
Not to mention 2A3, 10 and 50s. The closest thing to a "hot" tube I have is a 10, and that filament is about like a 25 watt tube running at 50V or so.

Which tubes are these?

[John-Del]

On Tuesday, April 24, 2018 at 11:09:59 PM UTC-4, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, 24 April 2018 19:32:13 UTC+1, pf...@aol.com wrote:

> > Euro radio:
> >
> > a) Never use one part when four-or-more would do.
> > b) Let's make the controls very, very fussy, with lots of moving parts.
> > c) Let's make the chassis an integral part of the cabinet (case) including wires, springs, tuning mechanisms and speakers.
> > d) Let's make services as simple as changing a dial lamp the work of several hours.
> > e) And after all that, let's make just about every radio look the same, but make very sure that there are no interchangeable parts but-for the tubes - and not all of those.
> >

>

> your lists don't represent the euro valve radios I've worked on by any means
>

>

> NT

I have to agree with Peter, but maybe it's just that the only German radios we saw imported were the high end models. Really, the AA5 was so simple, reliable, and performed so well that imports really couldn't compare in a consumer driven market.

When I was an early teen, I was given all the tube radios to work on at the family shop, and I always hated the Grundigs, Emuds, Blaupunkts, etc. because they were a pain in the ass to work on as opposed to the AA5(6) or FM versions of the same. I remember spending a whole afternoon changing out the piano key switch assy on several. Hated them. They performed well and sounded fabulous, but that didn't concern the guy on the bench. The good news was that Sams rewrote the schematics to put them in the familiar layout that we were used to on this side of the Atlantic, so that helped.

[peterw...@gmail.com]

On further research:

The cathode of a magnetron provides the electrons through which the mechanism of energy transfer is accomplished. The cathode is located in the center of the anode and is made up of a hollow cylinder of emissive material (mostly Barium Oxide) surrounding a heater. The feeding wires of the filament must center the whole cathode. Any eccentricity between anode and cathode can cause serious internal arcing or malfunction.

Does not seem to be much Thorium involved??

[jurb...@gmail.com]

>"Picking the first random ES design I see 475v dc bias. "

According to RCA's RC30 the peak pulse plate voltage it rated 5,000 volts. Without reading all the details this is of course with negative voltage on G1, it is the retrace pulse for the yoke and rectified for HV. So a pair stacked SESAPP would yield 2,000 volts peak at best. Bridged, of course 5,000 volts. I'm fairly sure most ESLs need more than that. Without going to transmitter tubes I think that is about the highest voltage to be had except in a HV shub regulator such as a 6BK4. Those are good for 27,000 volts but at 5,000 volts will only pass 750 uA. I think that only works out to about 16 watts. Unless ESLs lose a ton of power in the internal transformer that will not do. The book doesn't give plate dissipation but the tube s designed with the anode away from the glass and they do get red hot and work just fine. It is not impossible though, first of all with that topology, triodes should be easier to deal with. It would be a matter of a bunch of them in parallel which would cost more, but a true audiophile doesn't care.

It doesn't give the maximum heater cathode voltage but I am assuming any design will need separate floating filament supplies. Not too hard with modern SMPS technology. However there is also the issue of frequency response. Since it is designed for HV shunt regulator use I imagine its frequency response is not stellar. I'm not sure now much can be done with feedback when there is that much open loop voltage gain. Plus the capacitive load doesn't help.

>"2nd smaller cap in series with the ac HV feed, shorted for full power. "

Makes sense. I red that the power id chiefly determined by the cap value, the transformers are not all that different, except the one I mentioned that actually had an extra tap for lower power.

In light of that, when I replace the cap in this 1992 Litton, what about using a higher value to squeeze a few more watts out of it ? Is that too dangerous or otherwise not feasible ? To me, it is damn hard to have too much power, you just use less time, and since this doesn't ave real power control as far as I know, it just cycles anyway. Of course it might already have the biggest value on practice because it is a fairly large unit and I remember it had alot of power when it was new. We had to get used to it, it wasn't like the elcheapos. I would up the cp value for decent results but if it is going to burn something up because of it I'll leave it as designed.

>"Nuke magnetrons use thoriated tungsten bright emitters. "

AHA, so that filament is already burning pretty hot then right ? I see.

[peterw...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, April 25, 2018 at 12:21:29 PM UTC-4, jurb...@gmail.com wrote:

> >"Nuke magnetrons use thoriated tungsten bright emitters. "
>
> AHA, so that filament is already burning pretty hot then right ? I see.

No, they don't. The emitter is a solid cylinder of Barium Oxide with a (usually) copper filament inside it. There are other Barium salts used as well, but no Thorium.

"Bright Emitter" magnetrons are used mostly for industrial heating applications - not hardly in what you have in your kitchen - even an old Amana, or Litton. The cutting-edge of magnetrons is in making more compact and shorter-wave (high-resolution) radars. Neat stuff going on there.

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, 25 April 2018 17:21:29 UTC+1, jurb...@gmail.com wrote:
NT

> >"Picking the first random ES design I see 475v dc bias. "
>
> According to RCA's RC30 the peak pulse plate voltage it rated 5,000 volts. Without reading all the details this is of course with negative voltage on G1, it is the retrace pulse for the yoke and rectified for HV. So a pair stacked SESAPP would yield 2,000 volts peak at best. Bridged, of course 5,000 volts. I'm fairly sure most ESLs need more than that. Without going to transmitter tubes I think that is about the highest voltage to be had except in a HV shub regulator such as a 6BK4. Those are good for 27,000 volts but at 5,000 volts will only pass 750 uA. I think that only works out to about 16 watts. Unless ESLs lose a ton of power in the internal transformer that will not do. The book doesn't give plate dissipation but the tube s designed with the anode away from the glass and they do get red hot and work just fine. It is not impossible though, first of all with that topology, triodes should be easier to deal with. It would be a matter of a bunch of them in parallel which would cost more, but a true audiophile doesn't care.

you already know that some ESes run at under 1kV, and the once mildly popular ES tweeters ran direct off ordinary audio amp valve anodes. But you can build a megavolter if you want.

> It doesn't give the maximum heater cathode voltage but I am assuming any design will need separate floating filament supplies. Not too hard with modern SMPS technology. However there is also the issue of frequency response. Since it is designed for HV shunt regulator use I imagine its frequency response is not stellar. I'm not sure now much can be done with feedback when there is that much open loop voltage gain. Plus the capacitive load doesn't help.
>
> >"2nd smaller cap in series with the ac HV feed, shorted for full power. "
>
> Makes sense. I red that the power id chiefly determined by the cap value, the transformers are not all that different, except the one I mentioned that actually had an extra tap for lower power.
>
> In light of that, when I replace the cap in this 1992 Litton, what about using a higher value to squeeze a few more watts out of it ? Is that too dangerous or otherwise not feasible ? To me, it is damn hard to have too much power, you just use less time, and since this doesn't ave real power control as far as I know, it just cycles anyway. Of course it might already have the biggest value on practice because it is a fairly large unit and I remember it had alot of power when it was new. We had to get used to it, it wasn't like the elcheapos. I would up the cp value for decent results but if it is going to burn something up because of it I'll leave it as designed.
>
> >"Nuke magnetrons use thoriated tungsten bright emitters. "
>
> AHA, so that filament is already burning pretty hot then right ? I see.

Nuke magnetrons run red hot. I wouldn't want to heat them even further. I used to have a nuke that had its magnetron on show, no cover at all between it & the cooking cavity.

The HV cap doesn't affect filament power of course.


NT

[Chuck]

The filaments in the finals in WWII tank transmitters ran white hot.
Had an early 20s Crosley radio which didn't have cathodes and the
filaments glowed orange. (RCA WD11s)

[Chuck]

Used to work on Quad ESL-63s. They sounded great but couldn't be
played at high levels. When they arced from being over driven or
moisture incursion the damage could be pretty extensive.

[bruce2...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, April 11, 2018 at 4:14:03 AM UTC-4, GS wrote:
> N_Cook <div...@tcp.co.uk> wrote:
> > Printer only used monthly , perhaps when new then parking in the cart
> > dock at the side perhaps works, but not when years old.
> > A bit of a bind, but less of a bind than squirting air-duster etc to
> > unblock an ink cart etc etc. At the end of each session remove the carts.
> > Grab a couple of couple of large party balloons with the neck cut off.
> > Stretch over the active face of each cart with a drop of
> > meths/denatured-alcahol in each balloon and store on a ledge with balloons dangling.
>
> My Canon I hardly use. It just uses ink even while off.

There. Now. Footing the bill of some nameless, faceless corporation wasn't that bad after all, was it?

[peterw...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, April 25, 2018 at 5:17:33 PM UTC-4, Chuck wrote:

> The filaments in the finals in WWII tank transmitters ran white hot.
> Had an early 20s Crosley radio which didn't have cathodes and the
> filaments glowed orange. (RCA WD11s)

Transmitter tubes do tend to run hot. Similar to larger mercury rectifier tubes. In some cases, those had to be shielded (enclosed) due to UV emissions. Back in the day, I ran a 35mm projection set-up that used carbon-arc lights. They were driven by mercury rectifier tubes about 10" tall and in metal enclosures against the UV.

But standard receiving tubes, not so much. And modern microwave oven magnetrons, not at all.

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <56cad77f-1bbd-48e9...@googlegroups.com>,
peterw...@gmail.com says...

>
> Transmitter tubes do tend to run hot. Similar to larger mercury rectifier tubes. In some cases, those had to be shielded (enclosed) due to UV emissions. Back in the day, I ran a 35mm projection set-up that used carbon-arc lights. They were driven by mercury rectifier tubes about 10" tall and in metal enclosures against the UV.
>
> But standard receiving tubes, not so much. And modern microwave oven magnetrons, not at all.
>
> Peter Wieck
> Melrose Park, PA
>
>

As most transmitting tubes are only about 75% or less efficent, they
will run hot. A 1000 watt input tube will send out maybe 750 watts best
case, usually less, that is 250 watts or more heating the tube not
counting the filiment power.

If you do not think a receiving tube is hot, grab a power output tube of
an old All American 5 AM receiver, or for that mater, a 6aq5 or similar
in other receivers audio output stages with your fingers.