World's Worst Soldering!

[Cursitor Doom]

Hi all,

I just fixed up this classic Tek 466 scope I've been meaning to get
around to sorting out for the last few years. As you can see, my
soldering is atrocious. I've been soldering this type of circuitry for 50
years and never got any better at it in all that time. When it comes to
soldering and part-placement, I suck donkey dick!
Check it out and enjoy at my expense:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/128859641@N02/45109856712/in/dateposted-
public/

and...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/128859641@N02/44247281105/in/dateposted-
public/


As you can see, the "world's worst" tag was no exaggeration!



--
This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via
the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other
protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of
GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet
protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, 7 October 2018 17:08:38 UTC+1, Cursitor Doom wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I just fixed up this classic Tek 466 scope I've been meaning to get
> around to sorting out for the last few years. As you can see, my
> soldering is atrocious. I've been soldering this type of circuitry for 50
> years and never got any better at it in all that time. When it comes to
> soldering and part-placement, I suck donkey dick!
> Check it out and enjoy at my expense:
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128859641@N02/45109856712/in/dateposted-
> public/
>
> and...
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128859641@N02/44247281105/in/dateposted-
> public/
>
>
> As you can see, the "world's worst" tag was no exaggeration!

photos not too clear, but looks like you need to be applying more solder. If there's black muck involved, clean the joint better.


NT

[Chris]

On Sun, 07 Oct 2018 09:35:55 -0700, tabbypurr wrote:

> photos not too clear, but looks like you need to be applying more
> solder. If there's black muck involved, clean the joint better.

mebe theres something wrong wiht your browser as they show up v. clear
indeed on my monitor at any rate. outstandingly clear in fact i would say.
rotten soldering!

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 7 Oct 2018 16:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
<cu...@notformail.com> wrote:

>https://www.flickr.com/photos/128859641@N02/45109856712/in/dateposted-public/
>https://www.flickr.com/photos/128859641@N02/44247281105/in/dateposted-public/

>As you can see, the "world's worst" tag was no exaggeration!

There may be hope for you yet:

1. How many watts is your soldering iron? It looks like the mess
made by too low power or too fine a tip. 75 watt seems about right.

2. Is the soldering iron temperature controlled? If yes, raise the
temperature and work fast. Mine runs at 750F (400C) for 60/40
lead-tin. If no, go shopping and buy a decent adjustable temperature
controlled soldering station. Get a fine tip for fine work, and a
thicker tip for the big stuff (so that the tip doesn't go cold as soon
as you touch the work).

3. Are those 3300uF 25V caps 85C caps or 105C? The photo looks like
85C. If so, they'll last about 6 months inside a hot oscilloscope.

4. Clean the enamel off the wires with sandpaper before you solder.
Tin the wire ends before attaching to a lug or PCB rivet.

I've dragged some of the local hams into my palatial office and
demonstrated how easy it is to solder properly with a decent soldering
iron. They're usually amazed at how well THEY can solder using my
equipment. That's when I discover that they're using something from
Radio Shack or that came with their childhood wood burner kit. I just
did a quick scan of what's available on eBay and noticed that they now
have OLED display aftermarket temp controllers for HAKKO soldering
irons. I'm tempted:
<https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=soldering+station+temperature+controlled>
Also, if you don't have a hot air SMD workstation, this might be a
good time to get one because they often include an adjustable
temperature controlled soldering iron.

--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[Steff]

Really bad.. Im suprised that the diods are still alive after that burn.
Have to be a newly employed that did not get His/her 2hr education
before doing the job

[tabb...@gmail.com]

Turns out you're right, the test card shows the grey scale is a mess. Settings can't fix it. Ah well...


NT

[tabb...@gmail.com]

It's also fair to say that even with a right piece of junk one can solder properly if you have the skill. In a drawer somewhere I have a 1950s Solon where the tip hangs loosely, but it still solders ok.


NT

[John Robertson]

On 2018/10/07 10:36 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Sun, 7 Oct 2018 16:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
> <cu...@notformail.com> wrote:
>
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128859641@N02/45109856712/in/dateposted-public/
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128859641@N02/44247281105/in/dateposted-public/
>> As you can see, the "world's worst" tag was no exaggeration!
>
> There may be hope for you yet:
>
> 1. How many watts is your soldering iron? It looks like the mess
> made by too low power or too fine a tip. 75 watt seems about right.
>
> 2. Is the soldering iron temperature controlled? If yes, raise the
> temperature and work fast. Mine runs at 750F (400C) for 60/40
> lead-tin. If no, go shopping and buy a decent adjustable temperature
> controlled soldering station. Get a fine tip for fine work, and a
> thicker tip for the big stuff (so that the tip doesn't go cold as soon
> as you touch the work).

A good soldering station and good hand tools (eg. - strong needle nosed
pliers, shard edge clippers) are indispensable for repairing equipment
properly.

>
> 3. Are those 3300uF 25V caps 85C caps or 105C? The photo looks like
> 85C. If so, they'll last about 6 months inside a hot oscilloscope.

I spotted what looks like "10..." curling over the edge on the edge of
one of the caps, so he is at least using 105C caps. The caps should be
secured though.

>
> 4. Clean the enamel off the wires with sandpaper before you solder.

Sandpaper may be too aggressive if a rough grit, that can introduce
scratches to the copper leaking to the potential for breakage. I suggest
using something more like wet/dry emery cloth of about 1000 grit - true,
it is another sandpaper, but less likely to scratch.

> Tin the wire ends before attaching to a lug or PCB rivet.

The invented bridge rectifier was poorly made for the space allowed, and
those bridge modules are readily available. If you need to make a bridge
module wrap the leads at least one loop around the others for a
mechanical junction prior to soldering. Then there less risk of a solder
joint breaking and introducing random loose parts into your equipment...

>
> I've dragged some of the local hams into my palatial office and
> demonstrated how easy it is to solder properly with a decent soldering
> iron. They're usually amazed at how well THEY can solder using my
> equipment. That's when I discover that they're using something from
> Radio Shack or that came with their childhood wood burner kit. I just
> did a quick scan of what's available on eBay and noticed that they now
> have OLED display aftermarket temp controllers for HAKKO soldering
> irons. I'm tempted:
> <https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=soldering+station+temperature+controlled>

This looks handy - so I've ordered a couple for the shop:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/352464262209

Nice to be able to check calibrations by comparison.

> Also, if you don't have a hot air SMD workstation, this might be a
> good time to get one because they often include an adjustable
> temperature controlled soldering iron.
>

John :-#)#

[69883925...@nospam.org]

Cursitor Doom

>Hi all,
>
>I just fixed up this classic Tek 466 scope I've been meaning to get
>around to sorting out for the last few years. As you can see, my
>soldering is atrocious. I've been soldering this type of circuitry for 50
>years and never got any better at it in all that time. When it comes to
>soldering and part-placement, I suck donkey dick!
>Check it out and enjoy at my expense:
>
>https://www.flickr.com/photos/128859641@N02/45109856712/in/dateposted-
>public/

Cool


>and...
>
>https://www.flickr.com/photos/128859641@N02/44247281105/in/dateposted-
>public/

Now that is an interesting bridge rectifier.


Here a raspberry replacing a big chip:
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/raspberry_pi_FDS132_matrix_display_driver/index.html
That thing has been working all day now since Dec 2013 without a glitch.
http://panteltje.com/pub/matrix_display_zoom_IMG_6609.JPG
Nothing to worry about.

Even older, 1985 or so, still works:
http://panteltje.com/pub/8052AH_BASIC_computer/8052AH_BASIC_computer_wiring_img_1756.jpg

>As you can see, the "world's worst" tag was no exaggeration!

Na, it is OK.


I sort of like soldering, but only 60/40, maybe it is the lead ...

:-)
http://panteltje.com/pub/z80/graphics_card_top.jpg
http://panteltje.com/pub/z80/graphics_card_bottom.jpg
have many boards like that....

Scroll down can you find the SMDs on the board?
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/raspberry_pi_dvb-s_transmitter/
that is some Giggle Hz stuff too.
It is still working, in fact added some stuff.

Soldering is simple.

You need a good temperature controlled soldering iron,
some solder wick, some 60/40, and there you go.
I count to 14 at 320 C for it to flow ... around pins.

:-)

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, 7 October 2018 19:58:49 UTC+1, John Robertson wrote:

> The invented bridge rectifier was poorly made for the space allowed, and
> those bridge modules are readily available. If you need to make a bridge
> module wrap the leads at least one loop around the others for a
> mechanical junction prior to soldering. Then there less risk of a solder
> joint breaking and introducing random loose parts into your equipment...

People often overestimate the strength of solder - it's close to zero. Always make some sort of mechanical bond first, or reliability will not be yours.


NT

[Cursitor Doom]

On Sun, 07 Oct 2018 10:36:05 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

> There may be hope for you yet:

Unfortunately not!

> 1. How many watts is your soldering iron? It looks like the mess made
> by too low power or too fine a tip. 75 watt seems about right.

I have 15W, 25W, 40W and 80W irons. This atrocity was carried out with
the 15W one which has a pointed tip for some reason.

> 2. Is the soldering iron temperature controlled? If yes, raise the
> temperature and work fast. Mine runs at 750F (400C) for 60/40 lead-tin.
> If no, go shopping and buy a decent adjustable temperature controlled
> soldering station. Get a fine tip for fine work, and a thicker tip for
> the big stuff (so that the tip doesn't go cold as soon as you touch the
> work).

You're very kind in attributing this train wreck of a repair to my having
the wrong tools, Jeff. Sadly I don't believe it's the case. This kind of
work requires a steady hand and a keen eye and I possess neither.

> 3. Are those 3300uF 25V caps 85C caps or 105C? The photo looks like
> 85C. If so, they'll last about 6 months inside a hot oscilloscope.

I followed the original spec as far as possible. The originals were
5500uF, 30VDC and 85C. I couldn't get the right capacitance within the
space available so used 33's in parallel. The old 85C's lasted for
decades so your 6 month assessment may be a bit pessimistic.

> 4. Clean the enamel off the wires with sandpaper before you solder.
> Tin the wire ends before attaching to a lug or PCB rivet.

Yes, I did do that. I know what I *should* do but it doesn't help.

> Also, if you don't have a hot air SMD workstation, this might be a good
> time to get one because they often include an adjustable temperature
> controlled soldering iron.

Can you imagine the carnage I'd leave behind attempting SMD stuff?? :-D

[John Larkin]

On Sun, 7 Oct 2018 11:58:41 -0700, John Robertson <sp...@flippers.com>
wrote:

I scrape magnet wire with an x-acto knife. That leaves a shiny surface
that wets nicely. I think the professional wire strippers use rotating
knives.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/27px827y9ed4mev/T850_L1_Tinned.jpg?raw=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zcbo3i2krozy7g0/T850B_L1.jpg?raw=1


A serious high-power, controlled temp iron is basic to good soldering.
I like my Metcal.



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics

[tabb...@gmail.com]

15w is way too low power for what you're doing there. 25w & 40w are the ones to be using. 15w is better for smd work, hence the pointed tip.

You'll learn. We'll give you a hard time till you do.


NT

[69883925...@nospam.org]

John Larkin wrote

>I scrape magnet wire with an x-acto knife. That leaves a shiny surface
>that wets nicely. I think the professional wire strippers use rotating
>knives.

I just select 375 °C as soldering temperature,
that burns the magnet wire insulation,
and then you can just tin it.
Scraping damages the wire.
But watch out for the terrible possible toxic smell.

[John Robertson]

I have a brush that uses fiberglass. Cleans quickly, bends a bit to get
the rounding needed, and doesn't run any risk of nicking the wire.

Something like this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/191126624992

Also polishes edge connections, etc. a very useful tool.

>
> A serious high-power, controlled temp iron is basic to good soldering.
> I like my Metcal.
>

For regular board work I like my Weller stations with the magnetic temp
controlled tips, I mostly use the #7 medium or thin screwdriver tip.

John :-#)#

--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd.
MOVED to #7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3
(604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

[jf...@my-deja.com]

I use a match to burn off the insulation. Sand paper also works without nicking the wire. I think I saw some kind of chemical stripper in the electronics catalogs, but I never tried those.

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <ebfb52f0-b273-43e1...@googlegroups.com>,
tabb...@gmail.com says...

> > Also, if you don't have a hot air SMD workstation, this might be a good
> > > time to get one because they often include an adjustable temperature
> > > controlled soldering iron.
> >
> > Can you imagine the carnage I'd leave behind attempting SMD stuff?? :-D
>
> 15w is way too low power for what you're doing there. 25w & 40w are the ones to be using. 15w is better for smd work, hence the pointed tip.
>
> You'll learn. We'll give you a hard time till you do.
>
>
>

It seems to me that instead of a certain wattage of irons, the way to go
now is an iron with high wattage, say 50 or 70 watts but is temperature
controlled. Then match the size of the tip to the size of the work.

Those hot air stations from China for about $ 60 seem to work fine for
me as I am just doing it as a hobby and only use it once ever couple of
weeks. The hot air works well for the heat shrink tubing and sometime
to remove a daughter board from the mother board if it only ha a few
pins. The iron heats fast and comes with several tips.

Stay away from any solder that is not 60/40 or better 63/37. Size the
solder to the job. Maybe adding some extra flux will help you.

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <c18c654d-d03a-4922...@googlegroups.com>,
jf...@my-deja.com says...

>
> > I just select 375 °C as soldering temperature,
> > that burns the magnet wire insulation,
> > and then you can just tin it.
> > Scraping damages the wire.
> > But watch out for the terrible possible toxic smell.
> I use a match to burn off the insulation. Sand paper also works without nicking the wire. I think I saw some kind of chemical stripper in the electronics catalogs, but I never tried those.
>
>

The high temperature iron sometimes works and sometime not depending on
the wire.

I usually use a Bic lighter and one of the Scotchbrite pads to finish
cleaning the wire.

[John Larkin]

On Sun, 07 Oct 2018 20:36:00 GMT, <69883925...@nospam.org>
wrote:

>John Larkin wrote
>>I scrape magnet wire with an x-acto knife. That leaves a shiny surface
>>that wets nicely. I think the professional wire strippers use rotating
>>knives.
>
>I just select 375 °C as soldering temperature,
>that burns the magnet wire insulation,
>and then you can just tin it.

Beldsol and some similar wires are meant to be thermally stripped.

>Scraping damages the wire.

Not #14!

>But watch out for the terrible possible toxic smell.

[DecadentLinux...@decadence.org]

<69883925...@nospam.org> wrote in news:ppdl16$1gq8$1...@gioia.aioe.org:

> You need a good temperature controlled soldering iron,
> some solder wick, some 60/40, and there you go.
> I count to 14 at 320 C for it to flow ... around pins.
>

60/40 is for plumbing.

The electronics industry settled on and proved to be the best 63/37 and
for decades it was. This RoHS shit is the worst thing the world ever did.
Metallic form lead is not dangerous to the environment.

If it were, there would be huge lead levels around all the damned police
shooting ranges in the nation. There is not.

[bitrex]

On 10/07/2018 12:08 PM, Cursitor Doom wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I just fixed up this classic Tek 466 scope I've been meaning to get
> around to sorting out for the last few years. As you can see, my
> soldering is atrocious. I've been soldering this type of circuitry for 50
> years and never got any better at it in all that time. When it comes to
> soldering and part-placement, I suck donkey dick!
> Check it out and enjoy at my expense:
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128859641@N02/45109856712/in/dateposted-
> public/
>
> and...
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128859641@N02/44247281105/in/dateposted-
> public/
>
>
> As you can see, the "world's worst" tag was no exaggeration!
>
>
>

Eh. This was the soldering job in a commercially-sold SMPS bench power
supply from an Amazon.com reseller, IIRC, this was how it looked when it
left the mfgr, I took this photo immediately after opening the enclosure
and pulling the PCB (it had stopped working! can you believe it)

<https://www.dropbox.com/s/65km6pbq8wzch54/IMG_20171005_104357775.jpg?dl=0>

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 7 Oct 2018 11:58:41 -0700, John Robertson <sp...@flippers.com>
wrote:

>> 4. Clean the enamel off the wires with sandpaper before you solder.
>
>Sandpaper may be too aggressive if a rough grit, that can introduce
>scratches to the copper leaking to the potential for breakage. I suggest
>using something more like wet/dry emery cloth of about 1000 grit - true,
>it is another sandpaper, but less likely to scratch.

I'm using 400 grit wet/dry sandpaper for removing enamel. No reason
other than it seems to last longer than the finer grits and I have a
fair number of sheets. For very thin magnet wire or litz wire, I use
finer sandpaper. If I want to scrape off the insulation, I use a
moderately dull edge kitchen knife that won't cut or gouge the copper
wire. If I try to solder magnet wire that still has some coating on
the wire and was not tinned, I get a black carbonized blobs, like in
the photo.

>This looks handy - so I've ordered a couple for the shop:
>https://www.ebay.com/itm/352464262209
>Nice to be able to check calibrations by comparison.

I have one of those. It's a counterfeit clone and is not made by
Hakko. This is what the real FG-100 looks like:
<https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Hakko-FG100-02-Thermometer-Fahrenheit-Fg-100-US-Authorized-Dealer/361688237097>
Note the price. I haven't bothered to verify the calibration on mine,
but it seems to indicate what I would expect.

[Jasen Betts]

On 2018-10-07, Cursitor Doom <cu...@notformail.com> wrote:
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128859641@N02/44247281105/in/dateposted-
> public/

Eek! I'd like to see some insulator other than air between the AC
nodes of that bridge rectifier, it doesn't look like the gap is very
much at all.


--
Notsodium is mined on the banks of denial.

[John Larkin]

This is pretty bad. The box doesn't work.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cja04ohlswjt1ig/Elenco.zip?dl=0

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 7 Oct 2018 20:06:40 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
<cu...@notformail.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 07 Oct 2018 10:36:05 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> 1. How many watts is your soldering iron? It looks like the mess made
>> by too low power or too fine a tip. 75 watt seems about right.
>
>I have 15W, 25W, 40W and 80W irons. This atrocity was carried out with
>the 15W one which has a pointed tip for some reason.

There's your problem. 15 watts is far too small for the heavy gauge
wire you're using. The pointed tip is too small to retain enough heat
to solder some of the larger parts in your photos. You also didn't
bother to disclose whether you're using a temperature controlled
soldering iron or a crappy wood burner. I'll guess(tm) a wood burner,
probably with unplated rusted iron tips that can't be cleaned, wetted,
or tinned.

If my guess(tm) is correct, you don't have a prayer making a decent
solder connection even with a keen hand and a steady eye. The trick
to soldering is to use decent equipment, a clean tinned tip, and the
correct temperature. Use a hot tip set to the temperature for the
type of solder you're using. Get the work hot quickly, solder
quickly, and remove the iron as soon as possible. If you use a stone
cold 15 watt iron, you'll end up lingering on the joint for far too
long, which will dramatically increase the size of the heat affected
zone, which will likely burn the PCB, vaporize the flux before it's
needed, and possibly run some parts. By fast, I mean something like 1
second or less.

>You're very kind in attributing this train wreck of a repair to my having
>the wrong tools, Jeff. Sadly I don't believe it's the case. This kind of
>work requires a steady hand and a keen eye and I possess neither.

A friend of mine lived long enough to get Parkinsons Disease. Near
the end, his hands shook bad enough that soldering was impossible.
However, before that, they were steady enough to hold the iron, but
not the work (wire and components). So, he build a fixture with an
articulated battery terminal clamp to hold the joint together while he
soldered it. For the soldering iron, he build something similar that
only required that he leaned on the iron to push it into the
connection. The process wasn't graceful, but it worked.

If you have vision problems, get a proper magnifier or microscope. My
eyesight is becoming bad enough that I need to use a microscope for
SMD work, and a magnifier for ordinary work. Good lighting also
helps. My soldering would look as bad as yours if I didn't have these
aids.

If you're not sure that decent soldering equipment will improve your
miserable soldering, then borrow someone's decent equipment and try it
for a day or three. If it's hopeless, look into the possibilities of
using a soldering robot:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=soldering+robot&tbm=isch>
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJMnk7maUVs> (1:33)

>> 3. Are those 3300uF 25V caps 85C caps or 105C? The photo looks like
>> 85C. If so, they'll last about 6 months inside a hot oscilloscope.
>
>I followed the original spec as far as possible. The originals were
>5500uF, 30VDC and 85C. I couldn't get the right capacitance within the
>space available so used 33's in parallel. The old 85C's lasted for
>decades so your 6 month assessment may be a bit pessimistic.

I had problems finding can type electrolytics so I used axial leaded
electrolytics as a substitute. They fit inside the old can, so I just
ripped out the guts from the defective capacitor and crammed the axial
caps inside. I used 85C caps which lasted about 6 months. I replace
them with 105C caps and they've been running for about 2 years.

>> 4. Clean the enamel off the wires with sandpaper before you solder.
>> Tin the wire ends before attaching to a lug or PCB rivet.
>
>Yes, I did do that. I know what I *should* do but it doesn't help.

If you know it's not going to work, why bother doing it? You're not
going to get a decent solder connection if it's covered with melted or
burnt insulation, no matter how nice your tools or technique. A
decent solder connection requires that ALL the parts of the puzzle are
clean before you apply heat and solder. Do it.

>> Also, if you don't have a hot air SMD workstation, this might be a good
>> time to get one because they often include an adjustable temperature
>> controlled soldering iron.
>
>Can you imagine the carnage I'd leave behind attempting SMD stuff?? :-D

It takes a bit of practice, but once you understand how it works, it's
quite easy. Soldering SMD devices with solder paste is easy because
the part self-aligns itself on the pads once the solder melts. There
are plenty of videos on YouTube showing various ways to use a hot air
SMT desoldering station. Instead of declaring defeat and surrendering
before you start, watch a few and decide if you can handle it.

[bitrex]

Haha, I actually saw a small pile of those on the shelf at the local
(well, only) brick and mortar components retailer in the Boston area, on
sale for $8 each in kit form.

I think I'll pick one up next time I don't think I've ever owned a
capacitor substitution box before, or really needed one (it's easy to
substitute capacitors in Spice) but might come in handy someday, and I
mostly trust my own soldering. Maybe I'll splurge on some better quality
through-hole caps for it than those ceramic disk....things

[Phil Allison]

DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
>
>
> 60/40 is for plumbing.
>

** You are thinking of " 40/ 60 " solder that is used by plumbers.

60/40 is ( or was) standard electronics solder.



> the electronics industry settled on and proved to be the best 63/37 and

> for decades it was.
> This RoHS shit is the worst thing the world ever did.

** Hate the stuff !!!!

To rework a PCB you HAVE to clean ALL of it off before applying 60/460 or 63/37.


.... Phil

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <19flrd597vqu0is1k...@4ax.com>,
je...@cruzio.com says...

>
> It takes a bit of practice, but once you understand how it works, it's
> quite easy. Soldering SMD devices with solder paste is easy because
> the part self-aligns itself on the pads once the solder melts. There
> are plenty of videos on YouTube showing various ways to use a hot air
> SMT desoldering station. Instead of declaring defeat and surrendering
> before you start, watch a few and decide if you can handle it.
>
>
>

I have been building kits and repairing electronics for about 50 years
and stayed away from the SMD up to about 3 years ago when I was about
65. I looked at Youtube and with a few simple items it seemed very
easy. I bought an inexpensive hot air rework station for about $ 70 at
the time and the best thing was an Amscope $ 200 10 power microcsope.
After playing around with it for a while on old junk computer boards I
started on the 'good stuff'.

That microscope was the best piece of shop equipment that I have bought
in many years. I seem to use it all the time now.

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <ppea6l$ipf$1...@gioia.aioe.org>,
DecadentLinux...@decadence.org says...

>
> 60/40 is for plumbing.
>
> The electronics industry settled on and proved to be the best 63/37 and
> for decades it was. This RoHS shit is the worst thing the world ever did.
> Metallic form lead is not dangerous to the environment.
>
>

The standard is for the tin content to be first and then the lead.

The 60/40 is most common for electronic solder, but 63/37 is slightly
better.

The plumbing is often 50/50, or was before the RoHS and lead free stuff
started.

I do agree the solders other than the tin/lead is very bad and hard to
work with. As I just do it for a hobby and in the US, anything I do is
with the tin/lead. If the area of a board I am working on has the RoHS
type solder on it, I remove it from the part I am working on.

It is going to be interisting to see if the devices have the 'tin
whisker' problem that high tin no lead content solder can have in a few
years.

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <cda34813-55f1-4d14...@googlegroups.com>,
palli...@gmail.com says...

>
> > the electronics industry settled on and proved to be the best 63/37 and
> > for decades it was.
> > This RoHS shit is the worst thing the world ever did.
>
>
> ** Hate the stuff !!!!
>
> To rework a PCB you HAVE to clean ALL of it off before applying 60/460 or 63/37.
>
>
>

Sometimes it helps to put some tin/lead solder on the parts you are
trying to remove and then get rid of all the old RoHS type solder.

[John Larkin]

I also have their resistance box, which is very good!

I tossed the cap box.

[John Larkin]

On Sun, 7 Oct 2018 20:06:40 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
<cu...@notformail.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 07 Oct 2018 10:36:05 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>
>> There may be hope for you yet:
>
>Unfortunately not!
>
>> 1. How many watts is your soldering iron? It looks like the mess made
>> by too low power or too fine a tip. 75 watt seems about right.
>
>I have 15W, 25W, 40W and 80W irons. This atrocity was carried out with
>the 15W one which has a pointed tip for some reason.
>
>> 2. Is the soldering iron temperature controlled? If yes, raise the
>> temperature and work fast. Mine runs at 750F (400C) for 60/40 lead-tin.
>> If no, go shopping and buy a decent adjustable temperature controlled
>> soldering station. Get a fine tip for fine work, and a thicker tip for
>> the big stuff (so that the tip doesn't go cold as soon as you touch the
>> work).
>
>You're very kind in attributing this train wreck of a repair to my having
>the wrong tools, Jeff. Sadly I don't believe it's the case. This kind of
>work requires a steady hand and a keen eye and I possess neither.

I have terrible eyesight, so I got a used Mantis microscope thing.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fp88o2rqgr87g9d/Mantis2.JPG?raw=1

I steady my hand on a table or something when I solder, especially
super fine pitch surface-mount parts. The Metcal iron really, really
helps.

You're fine, you're just using cruddy tools.

For really small surface mount stuff, I use a big wedge tip and slop
solder on all the pins, shorting everything, then wick it.

A q-tip and acetone cleans things up pretty.

>
>> 3. Are those 3300uF 25V caps 85C caps or 105C? The photo looks like
>> 85C. If so, they'll last about 6 months inside a hot oscilloscope.
>
>I followed the original spec as far as possible. The originals were
>5500uF, 30VDC and 85C. I couldn't get the right capacitance within the
>space available so used 33's in parallel. The old 85C's lasted for
>decades so your 6 month assessment may be a bit pessimistic.
>
>> 4. Clean the enamel off the wires with sandpaper before you solder.
>> Tin the wire ends before attaching to a lug or PCB rivet.
>
>Yes, I did do that. I know what I *should* do but it doesn't help.
>
>> Also, if you don't have a hot air SMD workstation, this might be a good
>> time to get one because they often include an adjustable temperature
>> controlled soldering iron.
>
>Can you imagine the carnage I'd leave behind attempting SMD stuff?? :-D

I was afraid of 1206 parts when they first arrived. Now a US8 creates
only mild anxiety. 0805's look gigantic.

Desoldering is trickier than soldering surface mount parts. The part
is a goner, but you don't want to damage the board. My production
people are brilliant, so I let them do the hard ones.

[The Real Bev]

On 10/07/2018 09:08 AM, Cursitor Doom wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I just fixed up this classic Tek 466 scope I've been meaning to get
> around to sorting out for the last few years. As you can see, my
> soldering is atrocious. I've been soldering this type of circuitry for 50
> years and never got any better at it in all that time. When it comes to
> soldering and part-placement, I suck donkey dick!
> Check it out and enjoy at my expense:
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128859641@N02/45109856712/in/dateposted-
> public/
>
> and...
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128859641@N02/44247281105/in/dateposted-
> public/
>
> As you can see, the "world's worst" tag was no exaggeration!

Not even close. I hold that honor. Long ago I soldered a 25-pin RS232
cable. The blobs were so big I couldn't get the housings on. I didn't
think any of the pins were shorted, but I wasn't positive. I brought
the cable along when we visited a friend with hardware skills. While we
were talking he casually unsoldered my botched job and resoldered it
nicely. I probably never soldered again :-(

--
Cheers, Bev
When you stop bitching you start dying.

[John Robertson]

You bought that NEW? Or was it second/third/fifth hand?

It looks like an idiot tried to modify it. I have trouble imagining a
legitimate company letting something that hacked out for sale.

John :-#(#

[bitrex]

Denatured alcohol is my go-to PCB cleaning fluid now, acetone is a
better solvent but seems to also aggressively maul a lot of different
plastics and resins as well.

I absent-mindedly poured a bit in a Styrofoam cup one day, the bottom
instantly disintegrates into goop, fun times

[69883925...@nospam.org]

John Larkin wrote

>This is pretty bad. The box doesn't work.
>
>https://www.dropbox.com/s/cja04ohlswjt1ig/Elenco.zip?dl=0

Strange, in
https://www.dropbox.com/s/cja04ohlswjt1ig/Elenco.zip?dl=0&file_subpath=%2FElenco_CS-440_5.JPG
I see a position marked as R5 with a capacitor in it...
Maybe they use the same board for resistor bank and capacitor bank?

It is a good argument (the other pics) to use flexible wires from switches etc to the PCB,
not use PCB mounted / soldered user controls.
After some switch rotations the solder joints will make bad contact.

[John Larkin]

On Sun, 7 Oct 2018 22:53:10 -0700, John Robertson <sp...@flippers.com>
wrote:

New, from Amazon. It arrived that way. I opened it because it didn't
work right.

>
>It looks like an idiot tried to modify it. I have trouble imagining a
>legitimate company letting something that hacked out for sale.

It's Chinese.

[John Larkin]

On Sun, 7 Oct 2018 22:33:49 -0700, The Real Bev <bashl...@gmail.com>
wrote:

My uncle Sheldon had a TV repair shop and used to babysit me, but he
couldn't solder because he always had a beer in one hand and a
cigarette in the other. So I sat in his lap and soldered for him,
starting about the age of 3.

[Look165]

Some professional soldering people do that far worse.

The only problem for me in a possible shortcut between the two
connections of the rectyfier bridge, an insulation pipe should be welcomed.
It surely is the mains rectyfier, so a high voltage that could spike.

Cursitor Doom a écrit :

[Cursitor Doom]

On Mon, 08 Oct 2018 02:13:12 +0000, Jasen Betts wrote:

> On 2018-10-07, Cursitor Doom <cu...@notformail.com> wrote:
>>
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128859641@N02/44247281105/in/dateposted-
>> public/
>
> Eek! I'd like to see some insulator other than air between the AC nodes
> of that bridge rectifier, it doesn't look like the gap is very much at
> all.

You can't see it properly from that angle which I admit looks alarming.
If you could view it in 3D, you'd see there's plenty of clearance between
those leads and they're very rigid, plus this is the low voltage/high
current one and the applied voltage from the mains transformer across
that secondary winding is only around 3.3V.
I admit it's ugly, but it does the job fine and should last much longer
than the failed monolithic bridge it replaces.



--
This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via
the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other
protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of
GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet
protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.

[Cursitor Doom]

On Mon, 08 Oct 2018 11:08:32 +0200, Look165 wrote:

> Some professional soldering people do that far worse.
>
> The only problem for me in a possible shortcut between the two
> connections of the rectyfier bridge, an insulation pipe should be
> welcomed.
> It surely is the mains rectyfier, so a high voltage that could spike.

It's actually under 4V AC entering that "hand-crafted" rectifier.

[Cursitor Doom]

On Sun, 07 Oct 2018 19:44:55 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

> There's your problem. 15 watts is far too small for the heavy gauge
> wire you're using. The pointed tip is too small to retain enough heat
> to solder some of the larger parts in your photos. You also didn't
> bother to disclose whether you're using a temperature controlled
> soldering iron or a crappy wood burner. I'll guess(tm) a wood burner,
> probably with unplated rusted iron tips that can't be cleaned, wetted,
> or tinned.

These are just bog-standard soldering irons with no fancy temp control.
But their tips are in much better condition than you imagined above,
thankfully!

> I had problems finding can type electrolytics so I used axial leaded
> electrolytics as a substitute. They fit inside the old can, so I just
> ripped out the guts from the defective capacitor and crammed the axial
> caps inside. I used 85C caps which lasted about 6 months. I replace
> them with 105C caps and they've been running for about 2 years.

Maybe it was the additional 'jacketing' that caused the issue? You'd be
trapping a layer of warm air in there causing a build up of heat, I'd
guess?

Thanks for the pep-talk btw. :-)

[Cursitor Doom]

On Sun, 07 Oct 2018 21:26:58 -0700, John Larkin wrote:

> You're fine, you're just using cruddy tools.

That's very nice of you, John, but if you actually saw me in action you
couldn't miss a distinct lack of dexterity on my part!! Anyway, 'tis said
a bad workman always blames his tools....

[Look165]

OK, but a shortcut mai lead to some amperes.

Cursitor Doom a écrit :

[peterw...@gmail.com]

37/73. True-eutectic solder where RHoS is not an issue.

Anyone who uses 60/40 solder for other than plumbing and direct chassis connections on vintage radios deserves exactly what they get. Full Stop.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

[69883925...@nospam.org]

<jjla...@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in <u64mrdhilmqlrmrt1...@4ax.com>:

>My uncle Sheldon had a TV repair shop and used to babysit me, but he
>couldn't solder because he always had a beer in one hand and a
>cigarette in the other. So I sat in his lap and soldered for him,
>starting about the age of 3.

That is nothing, even before I was borm I would stick my hand out of mama's and grap the iron to practice soldering.

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Monday, 8 October 2018 03:34:36 UTC+1, John Larkin wrote:

> This is pretty bad. The box doesn't work.
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/cja04ohlswjt1ig/Elenco.zip?dl=0

nor does the website

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <5e64a5b5-e112-4777...@googlegroups.com>,
peterw...@gmail.com says...

You have it exectally backwards. I doubt if you will ever find any
37/73 solder. For two reasons. Number one is you now have a compound
that is 110 % mix. Sort of impossiable to do. I will allow you a typo
and say you ment 37/63. That would be a mix of 37% tin and 63% lead
going by the normal way of stating the tin content first.

The mix is 63 % tin and 37 % lead for the eutectic mix of solder. Over
the years much solder is sold as 60 % tin and 40 % lead. Close enough
for most electronics and very common.

[John Robertson]

Perhaps it was a return from a customer who had a problem, then tried to
fix it - botched it up, then sent it back to Amazon for a refund. The
seller didn't bother to test or it simply was repacked in the Amazon
warehouse for reshipment.

Much like the people who buy clothes for a party then return them
afterwards...

John :-#(#

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Monday, 8 October 2018 03:44:54 UTC+1, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

> The trick
> to soldering is to use decent equipment, a clean tinned tip, and the
> correct temperature.

I tried a new soldering iron long ago that had a sawn off nail as a tip. The heating wire was wound onto this tip over an insulating sheet, so it wasn't replaceable. It soldered perfectly. I expect it would not have handled large joints, but I wasn't doing any at the time.

A couple of years ago I tried soldering with nothing but a nail & a flame. Managed to produce good joints on pcbs, but the amount of time the nail stayed hot enough was very short, limiting what it could handle.

Like many things, if you know what you're doing you can get all sorts of crap to work if necessary.


NT

[bitrex]

On 10/08/2018 11:26 AM, John Robertson wrote:

>> New, from Amazon. It arrived that way. I opened it because it didn't
>> work right.
>>
>>>
>>> It looks like an idiot tried to modify it. I have trouble imagining a
>>> legitimate company letting something that hacked out for sale.
>>
>> It's Chinese.
>>
>>
>
> Perhaps it was a return from a customer who had a problem, then tried to
> fix it - botched it up, then sent it back to Amazon for a refund. The
> seller didn't bother to test or it simply was repacked in the Amazon
> warehouse for reshipment.
>
> Much like the people who buy clothes for a party then return them
> afterwards...
>
> John :-#(#

I bought a guitar amp used many years ago where the previous owner had
either accidentally or deliberately left inside the speaker enclosure a
couple photos someone had taken of what appeared to be the previous
owner, a heavy-set jolly-looking African American man eating dinner in
his kitchen with what looked like a plate of ribs sitting on top of the amp.

Sadly that amp was stolen from me a number of years ago along with the
Polaroids that i'd left in it where I found them for some superstitious
reason. Back into the "material continuum"

[Stephen Wolstenholme]

My first job when I left school at 15 was on a TV production line. All
the assembly work was done on a conveyer belt in about 30 minutes. I
was at the test stage. Sort of plug it in and see if it works. Any
faults were diagnosed by engineers and passed back to me. I had to
negotiate with about 50 women to get anything fixed. If I picked the
wrong women my survival that day was not guaranteed. It was a great
place to get a girlfriend!

--
http://www.npsnn.com

[Tom Gardner]

On 07/10/18 17:08, Cursitor Doom wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I just fixed up this classic Tek 466 scope I've been meaning to get
> around to sorting out for the last few years. As you can see, my
> soldering is atrocious. I've been soldering this type of circuitry for 50
> years and never got any better at it in all that time. When it comes to
> soldering and part-placement, I suck donkey dick!
> Check it out and enjoy at my expense:
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128859641@N02/45109856712/in/dateposted-
> public/
>
> and...
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128859641@N02/44247281105/in/dateposted-
> public/
>
>
> As you can see, the "world's worst" tag was no exaggeration!

If you want to learn how to do good soldering with "old"
and "unsophisticated" equipment, see the Pace Basic
Soldering Lessons.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL926EC0F1F93C1837

In contrast to most of the wittering talking heads and
videos of printed pages(!) found on yootuub,
those are excellent videos:
- short, because production and distribution of the
films was expensive
- to the point, because they are short
- good on theory of what needs to be done, and why
- good practical demos of what happens when you
get it right - and wrong

The only major flaw is that it is difficult to suppress
sniggering at the pronunciation of "solder".

Of course CD won't see this message, because he's blocked
me. His loss :)

[peterw...@gmail.com]

Yep - sorry. 37/63 lead-to-tin. Early AM post, and not quite awake.

[Allodoxaphobia]

On Mon, 8 Oct 2018 08:26:24 -0700, John Robertson wrote:
>
> Perhaps it was a return from a customer who had a problem, then tried to
> fix it - botched it up, then sent it back to Amazon for a refund. The
> seller didn't bother to test or it simply was repacked in the Amazon
> warehouse for reshipment.

My take? ...and I've seen such crappy "rework" in
never-been-opened-since-the-factory communist chinese
junk before. It's post-test fail rework done in the
factory -- by the lowest skilled folks on the totem pole.
"Get it working just Good Enough to ship it."

Jonesy
--
Marvin L Jones | Marvin | W3DHJ.net | linux
38.238N 104.547W | @ jonz.net | Jonesy | FreeBSD
* Killfiling google & XXXXbanter.com: jonz.net/ng.htm

[John Robertson]

On 2018/10/08 10:13 AM, Allodoxaphobia wrote:
> On Mon, 8 Oct 2018 08:26:24 -0700, John Robertson wrote:
>>
>> Perhaps it was a return from a customer who had a problem, then tried to
>> fix it - botched it up, then sent it back to Amazon for a refund. The
>> seller didn't bother to test or it simply was repacked in the Amazon
>> warehouse for reshipment.
>
> My take? ...and I've seen such crappy "rework" in
> never-been-opened-since-the-factory communist chinese
> junk before. It's post-test fail rework done in the
> factory -- by the lowest skilled folks on the totem pole.
> "Get it working just Good Enough to ship it."
>
> Jonesy
>

Well, can't say I would argue with you.

Bought a LCD from Amazon, and while the monitor works fine the brick on
a rope was bloody dangerous! The brick has no markings about approvals,
so it went to recycling, and the power cord - that was a piece of work
- a two prong (unapproved of course) plug on a two conductor line cord
(no approval of course) ending with a computer style 3-prong plug for
the brick (...).

The crap they are shipping will kill people.

Back in the late 40s and early 50s TVs in the USA would catch fire
regularly. So the US Gov. gave UL some teeth and that stopped happening.
Here in Canada CSA was already regulating electrical appliances (had
been for years) and as I understand it there were few if any house fires
caused by crappy manufacturing shortcuts.

The only real solution is international co-operation and standards that
has to come to bear on all products as the general public has no idea
about electrical/fire/food safety. I suspect a lot of children and
adults have to die first though...

John ;-#(#

--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd.
MOVED to #7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3
(604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 8 Oct 2018 08:33:43 -0700 (PDT), tabb...@gmail.com wrote:

>Like many things, if you know what you're doing you can get all
>sorts of crap to work if necessary.
>NT

When I was maybe 10-12 years old, I learned to solder making sewing
machine attachments in my fathers petticoat factory. The attachments
were necessary to make the elaborate folds and stiches found in all
garments. Most were made from nickel-silver[1] sheet metal, which
solders easily. The weapon of choice was a large block of copper
attached to an iron rod and a wooden handle. Heat was provided by a
natural gas burner:
<https://www.slateroofwarehouse.com/Johnson_Bench_Furnace.html>
Getting the temperature right was done by watching how the solder
flowed when touched to the tip. Tip cleaner was a block of sal
ammoniac. Flux was cocktail of various acids. We used different
solders, but mostly very expensive silver solder because of the
strength.

In late Jr High Skool, I was introduced to electronic soldering. Of
course, I tried to handle a soldering pencil as if it was a block of
copper on a stick, and destroyed everything I touched. It took a
while to adjust to a smaller soldering iron. My parents bought me an
Ungar soldering pencil, which was the best soldering iron of the day.
No temp control, no thermostat, but good enough for what I was doing.
I eventually collected an assortment of wood burners, real soldering
irons, and home made contrivances on the assumption that if I needed a
specific temperature, I would also need a different soldering iron.

One of my home made irons used a 16 penny nail as a soldering tip. The
solder wouldn't stick to the tip, so I nickel plated most of the tip.
That worked. I eventually discovered that mild steel did not burn up
as quickly as high carbon drill rods. Iron would have worked better,
but I didn't think of trying it.

During the late 1960's, I was a regular visitor to the various
electronic surplus stores in Los Angeles and Silicon Valley. Among my
purchases was a large box of broken Weller WTCPT bases, irons, cords,
etc. Something like these:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=weller+wtcpt&tbm=isch>
Over the years, I've repaired or rebuilt 20-30 such soldering
stations, some of which I still use today. Eventually, I'll run out
of repair parts and will need to buy something better.


[1] 60% copper, 20% nickel, 20% zinc and no silver.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel_silver>
--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[jf...@my-deja.com]

On Monday, October 8, 2018 at 9:27:00 AM UTC-7, pf...@aol.com wrote:
>
> Yep - sorry. 37/63 lead-to-tin. Early AM post, and not quite awake.
>
> Peter Wieck
> Melrose Park, PA

Maybe you had the 2N3773 on your mind, which is almost equivalent to the 2N3772.

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <1i6nrdti83ho84792...@4ax.com>,
je...@cruzio.com says...

> During the late 1960's, I was a regular visitor to the various
> electronic surplus stores in Los Angeles and Silicon Valley. Among my
> purchases was a large box of broken Weller WTCPT bases, irons, cords,
> etc. Something like these:
> <https://www.google.com/search?q=weller+wtcpt&tbm=isch>
> Over the years, I've repaired or rebuilt 20-30 such soldering
> stations, some of which I still use today. Eventually, I'll run out
> of repair parts and will need to buy something better.
>
>
>

I have one similar to those. It is an adjustable temperature. The
temperature seems to be stable,but the readout is blank. Have not been
able to find a schematic for that particular one on the internet. Found
some similar,but not the one I have.

I seldom use it any more. I have one of the inexpensive China $ 70 hot
air and iron stations. It heats up very fast and is good enough for my
hobby work. I doubt it would hold up for daily use. I would buy the
much higher dollar unit if I was in the repair business.

[peterw...@gmail.com]

On Monday, October 8, 2018 at 3:34:05 PM UTC-4, jf...@my-deja.com wrote:

> Maybe you had the 2N3773 on your mind, which is almost equivalent to the 2N3772.

They are pretty much interchangeable in most applications. I prefer the 2N3772 - I have never had a failure, and I have reliable sources. I have come across a number of counterfeit 73s. This is a hobby for me, so coming across even one counterfeit is remarkable, much less 3 out of 5.

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Monday, 8 October 2018 19:44:54 UTC+1, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

It's not just soldering where one can scrape the barrel. I remember using 3 filament bulbs in lieu of a multimeter. The TV got fixed. What I can't remember is why I didn't have a multimeter there.


NT

[Cursitor Doom]

On Mon, 08 Oct 2018 15:01:48 +0000, 698839253X6D445TD wrote:


> That is nothing, even before I was borm I would stick my hand out of
> mama's and grap the iron to practice soldering.

Good Lord! I had no idea you were such a precocious child, Jan! ;-)

[Cursitor Doom]

On Tue, 09 Oct 2018 17:45:02 +0000, Cursitor Doom wrote:

Precocious *embryo* I should have said. :)

[bruce2...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, October 7, 2018 at 1:36:07 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Sun, 7 Oct 2018 16:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
> <cu...@notformail.com> wrote:
>
> >https://www.flickr.com/photos/128859641@N02/45109856712/in/dateposted-public/
> >https://www.flickr.com/photos/128859641@N02/44247281105/in/dateposted-public/

> >As you can see, the "world's worst" tag was no exaggeration!
>

> There may be hope for you yet:
>
> 1. How many watts is your soldering iron? It looks like the mess
> made by too low power or too fine a tip. 75 watt seems about right.
>
> 2. Is the soldering iron temperature controlled? If yes, raise the
> temperature and work fast. Mine runs at 750F (400C) for 60/40
> lead-tin. If no, go shopping and buy a decent adjustable temperature
> controlled soldering station. Get a fine tip for fine work, and a
> thicker tip for the big stuff (so that the tip doesn't go cold as soon
> as you touch the work).
>
> 3. Are those 3300uF 25V caps 85C caps or 105C? The photo looks like
> 85C. If so, they'll last about 6 months inside a hot oscilloscope.
>
> 4. Clean the enamel off the wires with sandpaper before you solder.

I wonder if the grit of abrasive saw blades is too strong for that.

[Allodoxaphobia]

Grit!? Emery paper is all tht's needed.

Jonesy

[bruce2...@gmail.com]

Exactly, what if you don't HAVE Emery or sandpaper. Just abrasive saw blades?
(or maybe a belt sander)

[Kellerman]

On 07/10/2018 17:08, Cursitor Doom wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I just fixed up this classic Tek 466 scope I've been meaning to get
> around to sorting out for the last few years. As you can see, my
> soldering is atrocious. I've been soldering this type of circuitry for 50
> years and never got any better at it in all that time. When it comes to
> soldering and part-placement, I suck donkey dick!
> Check it out and enjoy at my expense:
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128859641@N02/45109856712/in/dateposted-
> public/
>
> and...
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128859641@N02/44247281105/in/dateposted-
> public/
>
>

> As you can see, the "world's worst" tag was no exaggeration!
>
>
>

Soldering iron not hot enough, insufficient joint cleaning, use a better
flux - old 60/40 flux cored solder does not contain the correct type of
flux for reworking those old boards.
Chemicals in the PCB material leach out and make soldering difficult.
You need to use one of the modern aggressive types and clean it off
afterwards. I've out of the game too long now and can no longer suggest
which exact type of flux to use.
There are some excellent no-clean types available now too.


--
Blow my nose to email me

[Phil Hobbs]

Kester 44 solder and MG Chemicals 835 RA flux.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
https://hobbs-eo.com

[Kellerman]

On 27/10/2018 17:36, Phil Hobbs wrote:
> Kester 44 solder and MG Chemicals 835 RA flux.

Yep - that looks like it would do the job.

Despite modern regulations only Lead solder and activated flux works
properly on that sort of re-work/repair job.

About 15 years ago I had to source a fancy VOC free flux for a rework
job. The particular stuff I used is no longer available but it was very
good. Some variety of Multicore glop.

I notice that the new replacements only have a 6 or 12 month shelf life
and are quite costly in small (syringe) quantities.

All my stock of solder is now old (15 years +) and the flux is
ineffective. Looks like I'll have to find a syringe of some goo for my
next job.

[Phil Hobbs]

You can get RA flux in quarts and gallons from both MG and Kester. I
recommend the MG stuff because it seems to be stable, whereas the Kester
stuff crystallizes out after a few years.

[Kellerman]

On 01/11/2018 14:06, Phil Hobbs wrote:
> On 11/01/2018 06:46 AM, Kellerman wrote:
>> On 27/10/2018 17:36, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>>> Kester 44 solder and MG Chemicals 835 RA flux.
>>
>> Yep - that looks like it would do the job.
>>
>> Despite modern regulations only Lead solder and activated flux works
>> properly on that sort of re-work/repair job.
>>
>> About 15 years ago I had to source a fancy VOC free flux for a rework
>> job. The particular stuff I used is no longer available but it was very
>> good. Some variety of Multicore glop.
>>
>> I notice that the new replacements only have a 6 or 12 month shelf life
>> and are quite costly in small (syringe) quantities.
>>
>> All my stock of solder is now old (15 years +) and the flux is
>> ineffective. Looks like I'll have to find a syringe of some goo for my
>> next job.
>>
> You can get RA flux in quarts and gallons from both MG and Kester. I
> recommend the MG stuff because it seems to be stable, whereas the Kester
> stuff crystallizes out after a few years.
>
> Cheers
>
> Phil Hobbs
>

At my current home use a couple of pints would last more than my lifetime.
Even a 9cc syringe would be out of date after the first job.
At 10UKP a pop that's a bit dear.
I leave soldering delicate stuff to better eyes these days.
Thank you for your input.