wire that heat strips insulation

[Ralph Mowery]

Where can I buy some small wire ( about # 28 to 30 ) that has the enamel
type of insulation that can be soldered and the heat will melt the
insulation ? There was some on ebay I bought that did not seem to work.
After checking it out, it seems that it needs to be heated to almost 400
deg C and when I tried that, it did not do all that well.

[Dave M]

Wire such as Essex Soderon is solderable, as you want. The insulation melts
at approx. 237°C, well below 400°C.
Amazon, for one, has it at
https://www.amazon.com/Magnet-Enameled-Copper-Winding-Solderable/dp/B01EMHDXIM

Cheers,
Dave M

[tabb...@gmail.com]

there are 2 types of enamelled copper wire, some is solderable without stripping first.
Where? There are lots of electronic part suppliers. You didn't say what country.


NT

[mike]

Funny story...
25 years ago, I contracted some LCD monitors from Japan as part of
a product offering. They had been modded using that type of wire.
The QC manager took one look and insisted that they all be rejected.
YMMV

[philo]

As far as those mod wires often used on circuit boards, the company I
worked for hired some engineers who worked in the aerospace industry.


We had them manufacture controls for industrial battery chargers and the
boards had to me modded by adding a few jumpers.


One customer did not like the looks of them though of course all was OK
electrically. Anyway, when I mentioned that to one of the engineers he
just laughed.
He said, "Battery chargers, heck we have planes out there flying with
green wires."

[mike]

Soldering green wires is common.
The problem with the melting insulation is that you can't tell whether
you got a reliable connection among all the melted plastic.

The monitors in question used stranded wires with melted insulation.
You solder the joint, then snip the wire. The strands stuck out
in all directions, sometimes overlaying other parts or traces.
"Hoping for the best" was not attractive to the QC manager.

[Mikko OH2HVJ]

Google for 'solderable magnet wire'. Amazon has some, Adafruit has this:
https://www.adafruit.com/product/3522

I'm using 350°C iron and pushing the cut wire end to the solder blob
nicely removes 1-2mm of coating.( Don't breath the smoke.)

--
mikko OH2HVJ

[Johann Klammer]

On 08/16/2018 03:16 AM, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:
> there are 2 types of enamelled copper wire, some is solderable without stripping first.
> Where? There are lots of electronic part suppliers. You didn't say what country.
>
>
> NT
>

Hello. I had been looking for that stuff too, once. Unsuccessfully.
Do you maybe have some more trade names or brands I could use as search terms?
Soderon did not work on farnell..
and Essex gives only connectors n stuff.

[Johann Klammer]

On 08/16/2018 08:23 AM, Johann Klammer wrote:
> Hello. I had been looking for that stuff too, once. Unsuccessfully.
> Do you maybe have some more trade names or brands I could use as search terms?
> Soderon did not work on farnell..
> and Essex gives only connectors n stuff.
>

Maybe the name of the coating would work. the hi temp crap is called polyurethane here I believe,
and strangely enough the farnell people have the notice solderable on all of that
magnet wire when it really isn't.

[whit3rd]

On Wednesday, August 15, 2018 at 11:24:01 PM UTC-7, Johann Klammer wrote:
> On 08/16/2018 03:16 AM, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:
> > there are 2 types of enamelled copper wire, some is solderable without stripping first.
> > Where?

> Do you maybe have some more trade names or brands I could use as search terms?
> Soderon did not work on farnell..
> and Essex gives only connectors n stuff.

Belden called their version Beldsol.

[Johann Klammer]

That yielded a result.
Funny. This is from their datasheet:
> The wire requires a soldering iron temperature of 400°C+ to remove the enamel.
> (Weller bit temperature code 8 or 9 or temperature-controlled iron)

<http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/2331656.pdf?_ga=2.14158068.230652389.1534400363-531033438.1534400363>

[John Robertson]

How trustworthy do you think items are on Amazon?

I have had several negative experiences:

A 15" LCD monitor that I bought had a power supply that had no
registration marks on it at all. Taking a closer look was entertaining -
the power cord (also uncontaminated with UL/CSA/CE marks)) had a two
prong male plug going to a three prong computer style power female
socket. If you flexed the power cable at either end the insulation
covering the wires pulled out of the corresponding plug ends...

Another item of inferior quality quality was a LED night light that had
the metal threaded portion come up about 1/4" above the edge of the
socket - nice shock risk!

I would expect magnet wire sold on Amazon to possibly being poor quality
clones with insulation that probably doesn't meet its own "specifications".

If it isn't sold by a company with a physical address then I would
consider it too risky...name brand product means little, it is the
dependability of the company selling it that determines if the product
is counterfeit or not.

There is a lot of crap out there being sold to an unsuspecting public.

John

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <a9e058ad-d119-455f...@googlegroups.com>,
tabb...@gmail.com says...

>
> there are 2 types of enamelled copper wire, some is solderable without stripping first.
> Where? There are lots of electronic part suppliers. You didn't say what country.
>
>
> NT
>
>

I am in the US.


There seems to be lots that will heat strip/solder around 400 deg C for
use on motors and transformers but I am looking for some that I can use
on circuit boards and will heat strip at a more normal electronic solder
temperature of around 300 deg C or less.

In use the wire will never get very hot, say like inside a computer or
TV.

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <hK-dnf8WyPZjIOnG...@giganews.com>,
dgmi...@mediacombb.net says...

>
> Wire such as Essex Soderon is solderable, as you want. The insulation melts
> at approx. 237°C, well below 400°C.
> Amazon, for one, has it at
> https://www.amazon.com/Magnet-Enameled-Copper-Winding-Solderable/dp/B01EMHDXIM
>
> Cheers,
> Dave M
>
>
>
>

Unless they make more than one type of wire labled like that, it takes
about 390 deg C to melt the insulation from a youtube vidio. That is
what I bought off ebay and it does es not melt and solder evenwith my
iron set to over 350 deg C. The same company does make some wire that
is advertised at a much higher temperature rating also. I bought 3
different sizw wire spools from them and none of them would melt the
insulation at anything near the normal soldering temperatute. I even
tried it at a much higher temperature with my hot air rework wand.

Years ago a company (think it was Hamtronics) had some kits that coils
were wound and the wire was soldered to the terminals without manually
stripping.

[Jeff Liebermann]

Before I dive into the magnet wire selection swamp, have you
considered using a chemical stripper or abrasive stripper?

For chemical stripper, I use common furniture stripper (methylene
chloride).
Dip, wait about 15 seconds, wipe clean, dip in flux, and tin in a
small solder pot:
<https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-110V-160W-50MM-Titanium-Alloy-Solder-Pot-Soldering-Desoldering-Bath/263799392388>
I don't have one of those. I use a stainless tubing endcap attached
to a big soldering iron with a hose clamp. Ugly, but effective. I
haven't measured the temp, but I'm sure it's less than 400C. Oh, they
make a commercial version of my kludge:
<https://www.ebay.com/itm/180W-280W-Electric-Solder-Pot-Melting-Tin-Furnace-with-Temperature-Control-HighQ/232835430586>
The down side of chemical stripping is that it's slow, but if you have
a bunch of wires to strip, you can just clump them together and dip
them in stripper simultaneously.

Drain cleaner allegedly works:
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbHFtX_KtbE>
but looks dangerous.

For abrasive magnet wire stripping, there are machines and tools
available.
<https://www.google.com/search?q=magnet+wire+stripper&tbm=isch>
The problem is that #28 or #30 might be too thin to do with some of
the tools. Try it with some sandpaper. If that works, you have a
chance. If you want to get fancy, grind a slot lengthwise down a pair
of tweezers or pliers that fits the wire diameter. Dump the wire end
in some abrasive powder, clamp, and pull. You will probably need to
do it a few times. I do this when I don't want to play with the
chemicals. Tin when done.

Ok, on to the vendors:
<https://mwswire.com/magnet-wire/round-copper-magnet-wire/>
<https://mwswire.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/mws-insulation-guide-from-web.pdf>

gotta run...

--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[root]

If OP is willing to have a solder pot running he can crank that up
to 400 and just dip the ends of the wires in the pot. That would
tin the ends and make them ready for soldering to the board.
>

[John Robertson]

A BIC lighter works well for burning off the varnish, then rub off the
carbonized varnish and tin...

John :-#)#

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <3o9bnd1d90ka2231a...@4ax.com>,
je...@cruzio.com says...

>
> >Where can I buy some small wire ( about # 28 to 30 ) that has the enamel
> >type of insulation that can be soldered and the heat will melt the
> >insulation ? There was some on ebay I bought that did not seem to work.
> >After checking it out, it seems that it needs to be heated to almost 400
> >deg C and when I tried that, it did not do all that well.
>
> Before I dive into the magnet wire selection swamp, have you
> considered using a chemical stripper or abrasive stripper?
>
>
>

Thanks for all the info Jeff.

I guess that wire like I really want is not around.

I am looking for an easy way to build circuits on a perf board. I
thougt it would be easy to just lay some magnet wire on a terminal and
let the solder melt the insulation. Then go to the next connection and
solder that one with out having to mechanically or chemically remove the
insulation. Does not look that type of wire is around.

So as I will have to find some method of stripping the wire, I might as
well continue like I have been doing and use the wire like the hard and
flopy drive cables. It is a small solid wire with the plastic type of
insulation. Easy to strip with just small wire strippers.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 14:34:36 -0400, Ralph Mowery
<rmower...@earthlink.net> wrote:

>So as I will have to find some method of stripping the wire, I might as
>well continue like I have been doing and use the wire like the hard and
>flopy drive cables. It is a small solid wire with the plastic type of
>insulation. Easy to strip with just small wire strippers.

That's probably wire wrap wire. It's all #30AWG tin plated solid
wire.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wire_wrap>
The technology is mostly obsolete today. There were huge piles of the
pre-cut wire lengths and spools scattered all over the local surplus
stores. I have a few large bundles left that I use for making
breadboards. Highly recommended.
<https://www.ebay.com/sch/73139/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=wire+wrap+wire>

The only things I use magnet wire for is torroid inductors and
repairing motors.

[John Robertson]

Look for WIRE WRAP wire, that meets your specs - the insulation melts
out of the way and is useful for low voltage work...

John :-#)#

--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd.
MOVED to #7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3
(604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <ohhbnd93qh3jns6i4...@4ax.com>,
je...@cruzio.com says...

>
> That's probably wire wrap wire. It's all #30AWG tin plated solid
> wire.
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wire_wrap>
> The technology is mostly obsolete today. There were huge piles of the
> pre-cut wire lengths and spools scattered all over the local surplus
> stores. I have a few large bundles left that I use for making
> breadboards. Highly recommended.
> <https://www.ebay.com/sch/73139/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=wire+wrap+wire>
>
> The only things I use magnet wire for is torroid inductors and
> repairing motors.
>
>

At one time I was using some of the wire wrap wire to build things but
soldered it in instead of goig the wire wrap way.

I looked on ebay and seems to me that wire is still sort of high as I
would think like you said, almost no one would be using it now. Just
about all the new stuff is SMD.

With the new software one can draw up the circuit and have a PC board
made for almost nothing now.

A ham made a modification to the uBITX transceiver and would ship 2 PC
boards that were about an inch square and had 2 or 3 transistors,
resistors and capacitors for only $ 5 . Said that was about his cost.

Sure wish there were some local surplus stores close to me, but none
around.

de ku4pt

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Thursday, 16 August 2018 19:34:46 UTC+1, Ralph Mowery wrote:
> In article <3o9bnd1d90ka2231a...@4ax.com>,
> je...@cruzio.com says...
> >
> > >Where can I buy some small wire ( about # 28 to 30 ) that has the enamel
> > >type of insulation that can be soldered and the heat will melt the
> > >insulation ? There was some on ebay I bought that did not seem to work.
> > >After checking it out, it seems that it needs to be heated to almost 400
> > >deg C and when I tried that, it did not do all that well.
> >
> > Before I dive into the magnet wire selection swamp, have you
> > considered using a chemical stripper or abrasive stripper?
> >
> >
> >
>
> Thanks for all the info Jeff.
>
> I guess that wire like I really want is not around.
>
> I am looking for an easy way to build circuits on a perf board. I
> thougt it would be easy to just lay some magnet wire on a terminal and
> let the solder melt the insulation. Then go to the next connection and
> solder that one with out having to mechanically or chemically remove the
> insulation. Does not look that type of wire is around.

I fully expect it is. I have enough for a lifetime.


NT

[mike]

I've used both types.

The stuff that looks like magnet wire has to be tinned before
you use it. My experience was that it took longer to get the insulation
to melt than it would have taken to strip wire-wrap wire.

The meltable plastic coating has the advantage that you don't
have to measure it, You stick the end on the pad and solder it.
Then you set the appropriate position on the second pad and solder that.
You cut it off and go on to the next one...or for wire connected to multiple
places, you just keep laying it down and tacking it to the new location.

It's demonstrably faster for repeated mods to lots of units.
But you can't easily/visually verify that you have a reliable connection.
There's melted plastic in/around the joint.

30 years ago, parts and traces were a lot bigger. Today,
finding a place to solder anything is a challenge.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 15:18:21 -0400, Ralph Mowery
<rmower...@earthlink.net> wrote:

>At one time I was using some of the wire wrap wire to build things but
>soldered it in instead of goig the wire wrap way.

Yep, same here. It makes good "hookup wire" for PCB interconnects. It
can also end up looking like a rats nest.

>I looked on ebay and seems to me that wire is still sort of high as I
>would think like you said, almost no one would be using it now. Just
>about all the new stuff is SMD.

Yeah, I was also surprised at the high prices. I guess the supply of
surplus wire is slowly disappearing. So, buy cut pieces, which I
don't think anyone but hobbyists want:
<https://www.bmisurplus.com/products/55042-pre-cut-pre-stripped-kynar-wire-wrapping-wire-mixed-lot-of-157>
$50 is quite a bit for a pile of wire, but I think you get everything
in the photo (157 bags) which should last you a lifetime.

>With the new software one can draw up the circuit and have a PC board
>made for almost nothing now.

Yep, breadboarding is mostly dead. However, I still make quite a few
modifications to existing boards, and a few one of a kind prototypes,
where breadboard style construction is still efficient.

>A ham made a modification to the uBITX transceiver and would ship 2 PC
>boards that were about an inch square and had 2 or 3 transistors,
>resistors and capacitors for only $ 5 . Said that was about his cost.

He's not going to get rich selling at cost.

>Sure wish there were some local surplus stores close to me, but none
>around.

Yep. Digging through the huge piles of surplus electronic junk in the
Smog Angeles area was a favorite pastime.

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <pl4pu6$1df$1...@dont-email.me>, ham...@netzero.net says...

>
> It's demonstrably faster for repeated mods to lots of units.
> But you can't easily/visually verify that you have a reliable connection.
> There's melted plastic in/around the joint.
>
> 30 years ago, parts and traces were a lot bigger. Today,
> finding a place to solder anything is a challenge.
>
>

The small parts is why I bought a stereo microscope a couple of years
ago. Best $ 290 I have spent in a long time. I was about 65 when I
started on the SMD circuits. Even use it now to wire the 1/8 inch phone
plugs. Now some of them have 4 wires going to them.

I remember wiring up a ST-6 rtty demodulator on a piece of pref board
and point to point wiring and did not even wear glasses. About 6 or so
ICs and lots of parts and a few transistors. Now I can hardly see the
parts with my glasses on.

With the proper equipmnet it is not too difficult to build up kits that
have the PC board already made. Sometimes I think it is even easier
than the old transistor circuits.

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Thursday, 16 August 2018 23:57:00 UTC+1, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 15:18:21 -0400, Ralph Mowery

> >Sure wish there were some local surplus stores close to me, but none
> >around.
>
> Yep. Digging through the huge piles of surplus electronic junk in the
> Smog Angeles area was a favorite pastime.

It's free now, just keep an eye out for stuff dumped on the street.


NT

[jurb...@gmail.com]

If you're just looking to strip the ends, you can put a blob of solder on the end of a soldering iron and immerse the end of the wire in it. No chance of fire, no carbolising, no corrosion, no sanding, no anything. You can rest the iron and the blob on cardboard, it is not likely to burn it even with the lead free temperatures, though keep your eye on it of course.

I've done it with butane lighters and had to clean the carbon off, I also skinned it with a knife or razor. But when my ex-boss showed me that technique I was convinced. Almost no smoke, and the copper is about tinned as well.

He taught me a couple of things, and I him as well. One fault, I told him what it was and his response was "I'll not soon forget that".

This guy had a couple of other talents. Like rebuilding a cam gear in a VCR, even recreating the teeth with pieces of paper clip, shaped just right.

Anyway, he pissed me off later and I went to work for his olady, and that didn't work well. Ditzy bitch. Paychecks bounced and she sports a new necklace. That was pretty much the end of that. See he got drunk and hit a cop car and figured they were going to sue his balls off so he gave the business to her.

Anyway, just get some cardboard and your iron and some solder and it will strip. I have used that method many times.

[bruce2...@gmail.com]

Afterwards, I wonder how much you could net at a junk yard for it.

[whit3rd]

On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 8:50:41 AM UTC-7, Ralph Mowery wrote:

> > ...enamelled copper wire, some is solderable without stripping first.

> There seems to be lots that will heat strip/solder around 400 deg C for
> use on motors and transformers but I am looking for some that I can use
> on circuit boards and will heat strip at a more normal electronic solder
> temperature of around 300 deg C or less.

Solder temperature when wiring to the board needn't be the solder temperature
that strips and tins the wire; you can dip a wire end into a solder pot instead.

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <96d28534-9bd6-4640...@googlegroups.com>,
whi...@gmail.com says...

>
> Solder temperature when wiring to the board needn't be the solder temperature
> that strips and tins the wire; you can dip a wire end into a solder pot instead.
>
>

Many are missing what I want to do. I would like to start at one point
on a circuit board, maybe go to 3 or 4 or more places with an unbroken
wire and just solder at each point on the board.

That is why I want insulation that melts off around 300 deg c or less.

[Mikko OH2HVJ]

Johann Klammer <klam...@NOSPAM.a1.net> writes:

> Hello. I had been looking for that stuff too, once. Unsuccessfully.
> Do you maybe have some more trade names or brands I could use as search terms?
> Soderon did not work on farnell..
> and Essex gives only connectors n stuff.

This is what I use. You can get it in a few colors from Farnell.

http://www.newark.com/pro-power/rrw-p-105/wire-wiring-pencil-0-15mm-pink/dp/07WX0917

--
mikko OH2HVJ

[Mikko OH2HVJ]

Now I checke the datasheet, which states you need 400°C. I use 350°C and
the enamel strips nicely a bit from the end of the wire if you push it
to molten solder. To strip from the center you probably need that 400°C.

--
mikko

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <m2in49l...@nospam.fi>, mikko.sy...@nospam.fi
says...

>
> > This is what I use. You can get it in a few colors from Farnell.
> >
> > http://www.newark.com/pro-power/rrw-p-105/wire-wiring-pencil-0-15mm-pink/dp/07WX0917
>
> Now I checke the datasheet, which states you need 400°C. I use 350°C and
> the enamel strips nicely a bit from the end of the wire if you push it
> to molten solder. To strip from the center you probably need that 400°C.
>
>
>

That is the problem I have. I bought some that specifies 400 deg C and
that is too much heat for what I want to do. Going that hot for long
enough to melt the insulation usually lifts the traces off a board.

[Terry Schwartz]

I use wire wrap wire and the appropriate strippers. You can easily strip insulation and slide it down the wire just enough to expose a bare spot to solder to the component pin, then slide the insulation back down to the solder joint. Makes for a very clean looking, bullet proof connection. All you have to do is eyeball the insulation lengths you'll need ahead of time. Limit your daisy chains to 3 or 4 spots, or maybe 8" to 10" of wire, or it gets unwieldy.

My preferred wire is AD-STRIP Kynar, and it is designed for CSW (cut/strip/wrap) usage -- another excellent way of prototyping, which I still use often. Only downside is the CSW bit is expensive (but it does seem to last forever). Makes prototyping so fast and fun. Wire-wrap is NOT dead. If you can make your circuit work in wire-wrap, it'll work on a PCB.

[amdx]

I don't know.
But I have stripped a lot of magnet wire using a tool I bought 36 years
ago when I worked at a motor rewind shop.
Here's a link to the description.
> http://theradioboard.com/rb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3020&p=27304&hilit=qmavam#p27304
The big down side is, the company now wants $49 for the hand tool.
Even if I had paid that price, amortized over 36 years it's not so bad.
It still works very well even though it has 36 years of use on it.
It's at the bottom of this page,
> http://www.martindaleco.com/HTML/ElectriciansHandTools/WireStripper-Manual.htm

Note, the WRST72 above it is only $10.
Mikek

[poeele...@gmail.com]

在 2018年8月16日星期四 UTC+8上午5:54:24，Ralph Mowery写道：

> Where can I buy some small wire ( about # 28 to 30 ) that has the enamel
> type of insulation that can be soldered and the heat will melt the
> insulation ? There was some on ebay I bought that did not seem to work.
> After checking it out, it seems that it needs to be heated to almost 400
> deg C and when I tried that, it did not do all that well.

Our factory use this machine,we use it for some special project order,for heavy duty multi core power cable

https://www.fd-machinery.com/products/strip-crimp/pre-insulated-terminals-strip-crimp/.html