How much power is used by the final stage?

[micky]

How much power is used by the final stage?

Got a new Sandisk Clip, a very small MP3 player with an FM radio.

Built in battery, recharges from USB. I will probably forget to do this.

Am I correct, about radios in general and probably about this, that 80
or 90% of the power is used in the last stage, the stage that powers the
earbuds (or the speakers in a radio) And t hat all the other stages
put together use less than 10 or 20% of the power?

Sometimes when listening to the radio and walking around, the sound
disappears because the signal is not there. No hum even. Am I right
that it's only using 10 or 20% of the power it does when the program is
playing?

Thanks a lot

[Michael Black]

It probably is the audio stage that uses the most power.

I don't know what the radio in there is, but I suspect it might be one of
those software radios, that convert early on to a low frequency and then
do the rest digitally. I have a Sansa Fuze, about the same era, and I am
quite impressed by the FM radio. But there isn't much space in there for
analog components (not when you take away the space for the screen and the
battery), so it likely is something fairly digital.

Apparently most smartphones have the ability to tune the FM broadcast
band, using similar digital circuitry, but in North America that function
is often turned off through software.

They surely design for low current draw, so yes, if nothing is coming out
the headphones, there can't be much current draw.

Try it. Charge it up, then leave it running with the headphones plugged
in and the volume high. See how long the battery lasts. Recharge it and
then do it again with the volume at low. I would think the battery lasts
longer with the volume at low.

Michael

[Phil Allison]

micky wrote:
>
> How much power is used by the final stage?

** How long is a piece of string ?

> Got a new Sandisk Clip, a very small MP3 player with an FM radio.
>
> Built in battery, recharges from USB. I will probably forget to do this.
>
> Am I correct, about radios in general and probably about this, that 80
> or 90% of the power is used in the last stage, the stage that powers the
> earbuds (or the speakers in a radio)

** Ear buds use FAR less power than speakers, less than 1 milliwatt at ordinary listening levels. The other circuitry is likely using way more.

> Sometimes when listening to the radio and walking around, the sound
> disappears because the signal is not there. No hum even. Am I right
> that it's only using 10 or 20% of the power it does when the program is
> playing?

** No.

Got any more boring, silly questions ?


.... Phil

[micky]

On Tue, 2 Jun 2015 23:06:12 -0400, Michael Black <et...@ncf.ca> wrote:

>On Tue, 2 Jun 2015, micky wrote:
>
>> How much power is used by the final stage?
>>
>> Got a new Sandisk Clip, a very small MP3 player with an FM radio.
>>
>> Built in battery, recharges from USB. I will probably forget to do this.
>>
>> Am I correct, about radios in general and probably about this, that 80
>> or 90% of the power is used in the last stage, the stage that powers the
>> earbuds (or the speakers in a radio) And t hat all the other stages
>> put together use less than 10 or 20% of the power?
>>
>> Sometimes when listening to the radio and walking around, the sound
>> disappears because the signal is not there. No hum even. Am I right
>> that it's only using 10 or 20% of the power it does when the program is
>> playing?
>>
>It probably is the audio stage that uses the most power.
>
>I don't know what the radio in there is, but I suspect it might be one of
>those software radios, that convert early on to a low frequency and then
>do the rest digitally. I have a Sansa Fuze, about the same era, and I am
>quite impressed by the FM radio.

Yes, me too. I have another Clip somewhere, that I can't find. It
had a microphone and the abilitiy to record voices. Could be very
useful some time. but that time hasn't happened yet. I don't think
it's legal in Maryland without the other party's consent, where I live,
but it woudl be some other places.

The new one has no microphone. The tuner seems about the same.
Even a pretty strong station, it made a difference where I was standing,
even in my wooden house, but it also worked pretty well in a steel frame
store.

Because I already had one, it was very hard to buy another, especially
new, so I looked on ebay. Ebay still had two auctions from last fall,
and the bidding went up to 37 and 38 dollars. The new one a couple days
ago was 35 dollars plus tax at a local store (Best Buy) That's with
4Gigs. One of the auction items was only 2 Gigs. Not that I need more
than 2, but it still shows how people can bid more than something is
worth. (The new ones have a slot for inserting some sort of memory
card, in addition to the 4 or 8 gigs they come with.)

>But there isn't much space in there for
>analog components (not when you take away the space for the screen and the
>battery), so it likely is something fairly digital.

Does that make a difference in power consumption?

>
>Apparently most smartphones have the ability to tune the FM broadcast
>band, using similar digital circuitry, but in North America that function
>is often turned off through software.

Yes, I have a phone like that too, a Huawei. I thought it would be
good for walking, but it's too heavy afaic and no one calls me when I'm
walking and I usually don't have anyone to call.

But it was good when I had outpatient surgery at the hospital last
month, and had to spend about 4 hours in bed there afterwards. Listened
to the radio (FM only) and when the phone rang and I answered, the radio
stopped automatically. Started up again when I hung up.

>They surely design for low current draw, so yes, if nothing is coming out
>the headphones, there can't be much current draw.
>
>Try it. Charge it up, then leave it running with the headphones plugged
>in and the volume high. See how long the battery lasts. Recharge it and
>then do it again with the volume at low. I would think the battery lasts
>longer with the volume at low.

Well, I'm sure of that but I'll never get around to doing tests. I was
interested in people's estimates. If 80 or 90% is too high.

> Michael
>

[micky]

On Tue, 2 Jun 2015 21:05:53 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison
<palli...@gmail.com> wrote:

>micky wrote:
>>
>> How much power is used by the final stage?
>
>
> ** How long is a piece of string ?

How Long is a Chinaman's name.

>
>
>> Got a new Sandisk Clip, a very small MP3 player with an FM radio.
>>
>> Built in battery, recharges from USB. I will probably forget to do this.
>>
>> Am I correct, about radios in general and probably about this, that 80
>> or 90% of the power is used in the last stage, the stage that powers the
>> earbuds (or the speakers in a radio)
>
>
>** Ear buds use FAR less power than speakers, less than 1 milliwatt at ordinary listening levels. The other circuitry is likely using way more.

I knew the first part but the second part surprises me.

>
>> Sometimes when listening to the radio and walking around, the sound
>> disappears because the signal is not there. No hum even. Am I right
>> that it's only using 10 or 20% of the power it does when the program is
>> playing?
>
>** No.
>
> Got any more boring, silly questions ?

Now, now. It didn't bore me.
>
>
>.... Phil
>

[Phil Allison]

micky wrote:


> >>
> >> How much power is used by the final stage?
> >
> >
> > ** How long is a piece of string ?
>
> How Long is a Chinaman's name.

** That went right over the wanker's head, didn't it?

>
> >** Ear buds use FAR less power than speakers, less than 1 milliwatt at ordinary listening levels. The other circuitry is likely using way more.
>
> I knew the first part but the second part surprises me.

** Everything surprises the congenitally ignorant.

> >
> > Got any more boring, silly questions ?
>
> Now, now.

** Piss off.

[bruce2...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, June 2, 2015 at 10:04:19 PM UTC-4, micky wrote:
> How much power is used by the final stage?
>
> Got a new Sandisk Clip, a very small MP3 player with an FM radio.
>
> Built in battery, recharges from USB. I will probably forget to do this.
>
> Am I correct, about radios in general and probably about this, that 80
> or 90% of the power is used in the last stage, the stage that powers the
> earbuds (or the speakers in a radio)

Gross Tet !! I just saw a lady drop an ear bud and pick it up off of the floor and put it back in her ear !!

[peterw...@gmail.com]

Let's get to first principles:

I keep an 11-tube tuner that draws about 60 watts and is fused with a 3/4A dual-element fuse.

Matching to it is a 35 watt (2 x 17.5) 6-tube power-amp that is fused at 1.5A. It is a Class A/B device.

Yes, the part that moves the air takes most of the power.

Now - digital radios are all/nothing devices. The term is 'cliff effect', there is no fading, it just drops off the cliff. The power-amp part is probably a Class D device. Meaning it only draws power when it is passing signal making it about 90% efficient.

So, at no-signal conditions, the radio section is still drawing 100% of its necessary power, the amp is drawing (very nearly almost) nothing. But, if you are making your ears bleed, the amp section will be drawing much more than the radio section. Phil's piece of string is an apt analogy.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

[bruce2...@gmail.com]

Broadcast and reception take a lot of power if you’re planning that through an MP3 but, yuck !! Re-using earbuds off of the floor, ewww!!

[Tim R]

On Wednesday, June 3, 2015 at 12:05:57 AM UTC-4, Phil Allison wrote:
> Got any more boring, silly questions ?
>
>
> .... Phil

Phil,
you don't know micky very well, do you?

[Phil Allison]

Tim R wrote:
>
> Phil Allison wrote:
>
> > Got any more boring, silly questions ?
> >
> >
> > .... Phil
>
> Phil,
> you don't know micky very well, do you?
>

** No way for me to know and no need exists.

The fool condemned himself in his own words.

Same as you just did.



.... Phil

[John-Del]

Are you as delightful in person as you are on the web?

[peterw...@gmail.com]

On Thursday, August 15, 2019 at 9:50:19 AM UTC-4, John-Del wrote:

> Are you as delightful in person as you are on the web?

No, were that the case, he would have been "terminated with prejudice" long since. Aussies are not known for their tolerance of his sort of behavior.

[Phil Allison]

John-Del wrote:

>
>>
>
> Are you as delightful in person as you are on the web?
>
>

** I'm 100% certain you are exactly the same KING size cunt in real like as you are here.

FOAD you waste of space.



.... Phil

[John-Del]

On Thursday, August 15, 2019 at 9:03:35 PM UTC-4, Phil Allison wrote:
> John-Del wrote:
>
> >
> >>
> >
> > Are you as delightful in person as you are on the web?
> >
> >
>
> ** I'm 100% certain you are exactly the same KING size cunt in real like as you are here.

I assume you meant "real life" - unless "like" was a Freudian slip...
And while my own shortcomings are well known and reluctantly conceded, that does not answer the question Phil.

The group would really like to know if you indeed exude all the warmth and charm in person as you do on the web? A simple yes or no would suffice.

>
> FOAD you waste of space.
>

Heh heh.. You are a charmer Phil!!

[Tim R]

On Wednesday, August 14, 2019 at 6:44:29 PM UTC-4, Phil Allison wrote:
> Tim R wrote:
> >
> > Phil Allison wrote:
> >
> > > Got any more boring, silly questions ?
> > >
> > >
> > > .... Phil
> >
> > Phil,
> > you don't know micky very well, do you?
> >
>
>
> ** No way for me to know and no need exists.
>

That's not quite true. Yes, there is a way to know. micky's pattern is pretty obvious; if you didn't know from the first post, the next few hundred should certainly convince you.

Need? Well, that's a judgment call. Sometimes you're less aggravated by stupidity if it isn't a surprise. But avoiding aggravation isn't necessarily a priority for everybody.

[peterw...@gmail.com]

On Friday, August 16, 2019 at 9:29:45 AM UTC-4, John-Del wrote:

> The group would really like to know if you indeed exude all the warmth and charm in person as you do on the web? A simple yes or no would suffice.

Not going to get an answer from our resident Tourette Syndrome poster-child.

His sort of behavior (here) is not well-tolerated down-under such that unless he is about 6'-6", 240 pounds and a master of Krav-Maga, he would not last very long.

Who know?

[Jeff Urban]

>
> The fool condemned himself in his own words.
>
> Same as you just did.

Judge, jury and executioner. I like that in a guy.

Come on down, I'll take you to one of those microbreweries that make beer the way y'all like it. Like drink it with a fork.

And then we start talking people will go away, thinking we are going to have a shootout or something. They are afraid of shit like that. I can hook you up with a piece but it must be visible at all times, otherwise you need a CCW license.

I could see the headlines now -

"Fleeing a Foreigner, and a fucking asshole, they leapt to their deaths from the first story window and as John wrote - "Men shall seek death but not find it".

I don't give a fuck what you think of me but I tell you this - you are in a way like me. We both like to be keyboard warriors. Also, I am ready to engage in some really risky ventures, possibly lethal.

I think about that like a gambler, the odds versus the pot odds. If I die what do I lose. I am 58, got half a liver, stomach problems and even though I stopped cigarettes 8 years ago my lungs are permanently frigged up. So what can be taken from me ?

Realize one thing y'all, the best thing in life is to die in debt. You enjoyed it. So you heirs get less, boo hoo, they didn't work a lick to get this and it is all free, and you could have left it to the SPCA. So take what is left and shut the fuck up.

You are seriously intolerant of any stupidity. You should meet my Mother, she is like that. Say the wrong thing and she bites your whole ass off. Wanna try her ? S eventually became one of the vice pres. of the purchasing department and said "This is the perfect job for a Woman, I spend money and bitch about it". Then she comes back from vacation and they are all singing "The Bitch Is Back" like Elton John. They had a good laugh and then "Back to work". She could fire most of them.

For an Aussie you have one saving grace. You do not presume to tell us how to run our country.

You know what the media tells you. I have seen the thousand buck a plate dinners down to living under a bush in front of church on Detroit Avenue in Lakewood, Ohio.

You almost all have more tech knowledge than I. Great. But when it comes to applicable knowledge in an adversarial situation, ten of you could not touch me. You think I am kidding, let's rock and roll. (not really, in the really old days that meant to fuck and I do not want that).

Neighbor, asshole but he was alright enough. Snowblower kept on blocking our dryer vent, which is gas, we talked to him like "Are you trying to give us CO2 poisoning ?". He did it again. What did I figure out ? Take the hose out the basement, turn the outside spigot on and water their driveway. Middle of winter.

No. What they did does not warrant that. Walk out the door, slip and fall and end up in the hospital. No. They are not against us, just kinda stupid, and the were. Both dead now.

[Jeff Urban]

>Are you as delightful in person as you are on the web?

Oh I want to meet him.

Whether he survives or not is a different issue, know what my Father's last words were to me ? "Get the fuck out".

[Jeff Urban]

>KING size cunt

You are entertaining at times, and this is one.

This is like smaller is better.

You ever get stateside get thee to Cleveland. I don't want to hurt you or shoot you (not available to you domestically) or anything of the sort. I want to scare the neighbors and they are Italian.

[Phil Allison]

Tim Ratbag wrote:

>
> > >
> > > Phil Allison wrote:
> > >
> > > > Got any more boring, silly questions ?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > .... Phil
> > >
> > > Phil,
> > > you don't know micky very well, do you?
> > >
> >
> >
> > ** No way for me to know and no need exists.
> >
>
> That's not quite true.

** Yes it is.

> Yes, there is a way to know.

** Bullshit.

> Need? Well, that's a judgment call.

** You snipped the clear justification I posted.

You have no point to make at all.

Fuck off.



.... Phil

[peterw...@gmail.com]

Maybe we should all get together and chip so that Jeff U. and Phil A. can meet.

There is a real potential for an outcome along the lines of the Kilkenny Cats:

There once were two cats of Kilkenny,
Each thought there was one cat too many,
So they fought and they fit,
And they scratched and they bit,
Till, excepting their nails
And the tips of their tails,
Instead of two cats, there weren’t any.

[peterw...@gmail.com]

On Friday, August 16, 2019 at 3:07:26 PM UTC-4, Jeff Urban wrote:

> Whether he survives or not is a different issue, know what my Father's last words were to me ? "Get the fuck out".

Why is that not a surprise?

[Phil Allison]

pf...@aol.com wrote:
>
> Peter Wieck
> Melrose Park, PA
>

** What a vile, retarded, completely autistic bullshitter.

FOAD you dumb pig.



..... Phil

[John-Del]

On Tuesday, August 20, 2019 at 4:42:13 AM UTC-4, Mr. CHARM and WARMTH wrote:

>
> ** What a vile, retarded, completely autistic bullshitter.
>
> FOAD you dumb pig.
>
>
>
> ..... Phil

Suggestion: you don't really need to sign your posts Phil. We all know who they're coming from...

[peterw...@gmail.com]

I dunno, John-Del. I suspect that Phil feels pretty bullet-proof sitting under his rock some +/- 10,000 miles from the US or England. I am sure he is entirely clueless how far some can actually can reach.

No threat here - I am not the sort that pulls the wings off flies - tweaking the noses of clowns and poseurs, that is an entirely different exercise, however.