OT: More Weirdness from California

[Cursitor Doom]

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2023-05-08/california-reparations-task-force-votes-approve-cost-recommendations-800-billion

I thought it was a principle under civil law that when someone has
been wronged and compensation deemed appropriate, the money is taken
from those who have become unjustly enriched and given to those who
have suffered as a result of that wrongdoing. But that's not what's
being contemplated here. The persons who committed the original wrongs
are all long dead, as are those who suffered at their hands. I don't
see how one can justly apportion blame among those alive today. They
have done no wrong and the people who it is proposed to compensate
have suffered no wrong either.
What are we supposed to do? Just shrug and resign ourselves to saying
California's different? Are they really going to go ahead with this?

[KenW]

On Tue, 09 May 2023 14:16:56 +0100, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com>
wrote:

Most people know California is an ultra Liberal state. Just one reason
people are leaving it.


KenW

[Peter W.]

Apply some logic:

a) Native Americas and children of slaves were not given opportunities for education, training, mortgages, nor many of the other means to accumulate wealth as were whites of any origin. It took Harry Truman to integrate the Military as one single example. The last "Indian School" was closed in 1969, as another.
b) Accordingly, the cumulative effect of wealth-gathering was denied to them as a race, as a class, as a group.
c) Today, as a race, class or group, they are still suffering from that denial with (generally) poorer education, fewer opportunities, reduced health, and much more.
d) So, there is a 500 year history of everything from direct oppression to complete indifference to overcome.

And, guess what? The entire "white" race continues to be enriched by this.

Neither of my parents spoke English as a first language. But they were both University educated, white, and ambitious. They left their children with excellent educations, no debt, and a strong sense of mutual obligation to the 'social contract' that sustains all of us. We have given our children excellent educations, left them with no debt, and they are doing the same for theirs. BUT - we have, between the four families, five houses, all paid for, 9 degrees, solid incomes, assured retirements, and much more. Did I mention, no debt!

How much do you thing that applies to any random native American or child of slavery?

I do not agree with reparations in terms of cash payments. But, fer crissakes, the oppression, indifference and results of that oppression and indifference are acutely visible to this day. Something must and should be done - but short of a complete attitude transplant, in a world where 25% - 30 % of the American population adores the Orange Toad, this is unlikely.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

[ohg...@gmail.com]

For someone to suggest reparations are needed to address a wrong in the past would mean that the descendants of the wronged would have been better off if their ancestors were never brought to and suffered in America. Any descendant who believes they are not better off in America today because their ancestors were forced to come here are those who should receive reparations.

My solution is this - anyone who believes they have also suffered because their ancestors were enslaved and would have been better off if their ancestors were never brought to America should be compensated with both money and repatriation to their ancestor's native land, and absent any documentation as to where they originated from, be allowed to move to any country that will have them.

The cash reparation could only be accepted with a required legal renunciation of their citizenship and the being permanently barred from ever reapplying for U.S. citizenship in the future.

[Bob F]

Ignore reality, and what you said might make sense. Which is what you did.

[Bob F]

Very true, and well said.

[Cursitor Doom]

On Tue, 9 May 2023 14:50:23 -0700, Bob F <bobn...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 5/9/2023 12:32 PM, ohg...@gmail.com wrote:

Why? Seems fair to me.

[Peter W.]

> Why? Seems fair to me.

Because it entirely ignores 500 years of history. Which displays massive ignorance on your part.

Every complex problem has a solution that is simple, clear and wrong.
H.L. Mencken

[ohg...@gmail.com]

What about the thousands of years of history for every ethnic group? Shit happens - move on.

Ever hear of the "no Irish wanted"? My Italian grandfather had work menial jobs and then buy his house and later business cash because banks wouldn't load money to Italians.

I don't deserve any reparations for how my Italian ancestors were treated in this country even if it wasn't as egregious as the way blacks were treated before. If anyone *today* is suffering in America because of their race, then they would have been better off if their ancestors were never brought to America. Money *and* repatriation is the only way to right this wrong.

[Peter W.]

The issues with the Irish and the Italians were regional, and lasted, perhaps 75 years from end-to-end. And, the Irish and Italians intermarried with the incumbents (for lack of a better term) pretty freely. Neither the Irish, nor the Italians, nor the Poles, nor the Jews, nor the Lithuanians, were ever chattels (property).

Again, as long as one ignores 500 years of history, and as long as one ignores the fact that slaves, children of slaves and native Americans were denied the means of building wealth - education, land ownership, training, military opportunities, mortgages and much more - not for a few years, but for several centuries - your solution makes perfect sense.

[Trevor Wilson]

**Well stated.


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[Bob F]

Well said!

[Trevor Wilson]

**Your words provide some hope that there is a spark of thinking
remaining in the US.

[John Robertson]

Thanks for saying the above.

Political systems are responsible for the actions of their predecessors
for as long as the political system has been in continuous existence.

Thus in Canada we try to make reparations to those wronged by previous
governments and hold Truth and Reconciliation councils.

Our federal and provincial governments were aware of the situation in
first nations reserves and did next to nothing. A federal health officer
tried to get the federal parliament to pay attention to the death rate
and poverty back in 1910 and was pensioned off and spent some of his
last years on Parliament Hill handing out leaflets to people to try and
get people to look into this tragedy.

Everyone involved in this fiasco is long dead, but our federal
government (and most provincial governments) has accepted responsibility
for the actions of previous legal governments and is doing what it can
to change how things are done here.

That is how adults deal with past errors.

John

[Guy Patterson]

On Tuesday, May 9, 2023 at 9:17:04 AM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:

Ah yes, the foul stench of white liberals falling over themselves to show how evolved they are. Fork over money, but don't let us in your neighborhoods. Pay and look away.

Nothing has ruined our prospects more than "good" intentions doing far more harm than good. In America, black children are now born to single mothers at more than twice the rate of the 1960s and at a far higher rate than white families, and this is directly because of policies that allow welfare payments if there the father doesn't live with the child. Single mother and no father? Sign here thank you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzNYCPZXvlw

If whitey is the one with the privilege, why do formerly disadvantaged groups like Asians and Indians/Pakistanis now exceed whites in education and family income? Liberals say all the right things but they don't believe down deep that we are equals. They are actually the racists but will never recognize this.

[Guy Patterson]

On Monday, May 15, 2023 at 3:52:26 PM UTC-4, ohg...@gmail.com wrote:
If anyone *today* is suffering in America because of their race, then they would have been better off if their ancestors were never brought to America. Money *and* repatriation is the only way to right this wrong.

Wow, that resonates with me. It's difficult for me to reconcile the fact that I am living in the best country in the world because my ancestors were brought here in slave ships, and it's something I've thought of often. There is no place I'd rather live than where I am right now.

[Trevor Wilson]

**Indeed. Much the same occurs/has occurred here in Australia with our
indigenous population. We are well behind Canada and the US in
addressing the wrongs perpetrated by the invaders.

[Cursitor Doom]

On Thu, 18 May 2023 10:04:54 -0700 (PDT), Guy Patterson
<str0...@aol.com> wrote:

There will now follow a stunned silence whilst white liberal racists
try to come to terms with the consequences of their policies. Or more
likely, they'll just come up with some more dogma in an effort to
cover their tracks.

[Peter W.]

“No one in this world, so far as I know — and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me — has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.”

H.L. Mencken

Mr. Patterson, Mr. Doom, thank you for being such exemplars of the above.

[Cursitor Doom]

You people have been well and truly brainwashed. You can't see it's a
cult you've bought into and you're totally blind to reality.

[ohg...@gmail.com]

If you can't argue facts and actual history, then falling back to insulting the intelligence of those posting fact is all that's left.

[Bob F]

LOL! Pot, kettle, black

All you righties can do is projection.

[Cursitor Doom]

On Mon, 22 May 2023 11:48:49 -0700 (PDT), "ohg...@gmail.com"
<ohg...@gmail.com> wrote:

Not me. I was insulting their *lack* of intelligence.

[Bob F]

Based on your incredible life experience with that problem.

[Peter W.]

> Based on your incredible life experience with that problem.

Keep in mind that the Average American:

Does not have a college education, including an Associate Degree (60%).
Does not have a passport (64%).
Speaks one language – badly (74%).
Has never traveled voluntarily more than 200 miles from his/her birthplace (57%).
Has never visited a foreign country, not even Mexico or Canada (71%).
Cannot name the Speaker of the House, even today (82%)
Cannot name the three branches of government (64%)
Cannot read at a college level (83%)
Cannot read for content (54%). This person cannot follow written-only directions.
60% of American Households do not buy any book in a year (includes Kindle and similar).
Does not believe in Evolution (42% creationism, 32% evolution, 26% no opinion).
Only 73% of eligible voters are registered.
Only 67% of registered voters voted in 2020.
Meaning that the average American eligible to vote does not vote (only 48.9% net). Repeat: The Average American does not vote.

This has not one damned thing to do with party, democrat, republican, libertarian, communist, green, whatever. It has to do with massive, systemic and deliberate neglect, and industrial-grade stupidity mixed equally with Mil.Spec. ignorance.

I wonder how many of the above boxes Doom and his cronies check?

[ohg...@gmail.com]

> This has not one damned thing to do with party, democrat, republican, libertarian, communist, green, whatever. It has to do with massive, systemic and deliberate neglect, and industrial-grade stupidity mixed equally with Mil.Spec. ignorance.
>

I think you're being a bit tough on yourself Peter. Nobody is too old to learn.

[Peter W.]

> I think you're being a bit tough on yourself Peter. Nobody is too old to learn.

Yep.

Next time you need surgery, require a prescription drug, require a prosthesis, benefit from medical research - keep in mind that someone like me made it possible. Learning is what we do, so you can benefit from the research of others.

[ohg...@gmail.com]

Someone like you? I think if medical researchers were much like you, the plague would still be running rampant around the globe..

[Bob F]

Right???

And you know so much from your favorite right wing wacko fake "news"
site or the well documented lying fox "news!

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Tue, 23 May 2023 07:00:17 -0700 (PDT), "Peter W."
<peterw...@gmail.com> wrote:

Let's see how I score. I'll try to be honest.

>> Based on your incredible life experience with that problem.
>
>Keep in mind that the Average American:
>
>Does not have a college education, including an Associate Degree (60%).

I have a BSEE.

>Does not have a passport (64%).

Yep. No current passport. I have not reason or interest in
traveling.

>Speaks one language – badly (74%).

Not badly, but yes, just one language. I can sorta muddle my way
though 3 other languages, but not without consulting a dictionary.

>Has never traveled voluntarily more than 200 miles from his/her birthplace (57%).

No way. Almost everyone I know has moved or emigrated from somewhere
distant. I was born in Germany, grew up in the Smog Angeles area, and
have lived in Santa Cruz CA for the last 50 years. Add a few more
countries for business travel.

>Has never visited a foreign country, not even Mexico or Canada (71%).

Not me. Traveled and lived in Mexico and Israel. Visited about 5
more countries for more than a week and I don't know how many for a
tour of more than the airport or train station.

>Cannot name the Speaker of the House, even today (82%)

Got me there. I can't. I've seen the name go by on the news a few
times, but can't recall it now. A better questions would be to name
their state and federal senators and representative. Extra credit for
remembering whom they voted for in the last election.

>Cannot name the three branches of government (64%)

That's an easy question. I'm really surprised that the percentage is
so low.

>Cannot read at a college level (83%)

I can definitely read at college level. I'm not sure, but I can write
at college level.

>Cannot read for content (54%). This person cannot follow written-only directions.

I recently had to deal with some medical procedures. Afterwards, I
was handed the computer generated release documents and instructions.
They contradicted various other instructions I had received. Online
reading made it worse. The grammar was marginal and a noticed several
errors and one contradiction in the instructions. Prior to retiring 2
years ago, I was dealing with this type of "content" on a daily basis.
Never mind if someone can't read the instructions. There's a more
serious problem with those who write instructions.

>60% of American Households do not buy any book in a year (includes Kindle and similar).

I bought 4 books in the last year. I've read two and skimmed the
other two. However, I do extensive reading and skimming online. A
few years ago, I started replacing my paper books with PDF's and
E-Books. It's so much easier finding things with a text search than
with a printed index.

>Does not believe in Evolution (42% creationism, 32% evolution, 26% no opinion).

I believe in evolution.

>Only 73% of eligible voters are registered.

I've been a registered Republican since I could vote.

>Only 67% of registered voters voted in 2020.

I voted in 2020. The problem is that I barely remember who was
running and whom I voted for. I keep my old sample ballots and could
probably look it up.

>Meaning that the average American eligible to vote does not vote (only 48.9% net). Repeat: The Average American does not vote.

I'm not average, but your numbers are probably true. When I get into
a political discussion, I often asked if my opponent voted in the last
election. If they didn't, I tell them that they missed their
opportunity to change things and have no right to complain if they
didn't vote.

>This has not one damned thing to do with party, democrat, republican, libertarian, communist, green, whatever. It has to do with massive, systemic and deliberate neglect, and industrial-grade stupidity mixed equally with Mil.Spec. ignorance.

Oh, there's more to the problem than stupidity. Maybe later.

>I wonder how many of the above boxes Doom and his cronies check?
>
>Peter Wieck
>Melrose Park, PA

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Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558