Think twice before you buy Duracell batteries

[JW]

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/duracell-alkaline-batteries-seem-to-have-a-bad-rap/msg1027983/#msg1027983

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Fri, 16 Sep 2016 15:59:24 -0400, JW <no...@dev.null> wrote:

>http://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/duracell-alkaline-batteries-seem-to-have-a-bad-rap/msg1027983/#msg1027983

... and the batteries that don't leak explode when shorted:
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/Duracell/index.html>

I've bought Duracell AA alkalines that leaked withing a week or three
after installation. No leaks in the package seen, although I'm not
surprised.

--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[JW]

On Fri, 16 Sep 2016 13:20:59 -0700 Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote in Message id: <6ukotb9h93r3q5ea1...@4ax.com>:

>On Fri, 16 Sep 2016 15:59:24 -0400, JW <no...@dev.null> wrote:
>
>>http://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/duracell-alkaline-batteries-seem-to-have-a-bad-rap/msg1027983/#msg1027983
>
>... and the batteries that don't leak explode when shorted:
><http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/Duracell/index.html>

Don't short them, then. :)
How did the short happen? An experiment?

[Benderthe.evilrobot]

"Jeff Liebermann" <je...@cruzio.com> wrote in message
news:6ukotb9h93r3q5ea1...@4ax.com...

> On Fri, 16 Sep 2016 15:59:24 -0400, JW <no...@dev.null> wrote:
>
>>http://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/duracell-alkaline-batteries-seem-to-have-a-bad-rap/msg1027983/#msg1027983
>
> ... and the batteries that don't leak explode when shorted:
> <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/Duracell/index.html>
>
> I've bought Duracell AA alkalines that leaked withing a week or three
> after installation. No leaks in the package seen, although I'm not
> surprised.

IME: They're no less likely to leak than cheap brands if left in equipment
for a long time.

The real disappointment is they don't last significantly longer than the
pack of 6 Kodak Extralife from the £ store.

[ohg...@gmail.com]

On Friday, September 16, 2016 at 3:59:29 PM UTC-4, JW wrote:
> http://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/duracell-alkaline-batteries-seem-to-have-a-bad-rap/msg1027983/#msg1027983

Too lazy to read the link but I know for a fact that name brand batteries (Duracell and Energizer specifically) are known to be counterfeited. Not saying that has anything to do with the link but just throwing that out there.

[Fred McKenzie]

In article <6ukotb9h93r3q5ea1...@4ax.com>,

Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 16 Sep 2016 15:59:24 -0400, JW <no...@dev.null> wrote:
>
> >http://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/duracell-alkaline-batteries-seem-to-have-a-
> >bad-rap/msg1027983/#msg1027983
>
> ... and the batteries that don't leak explode when shorted:
> <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/Duracell/index.html>
>
> I've bought Duracell AA alkalines that leaked withing a week or three
> after installation. No leaks in the package seen, although I'm not
> surprised.

Jeff-

My experience over the years is that any Alkaline cell can leak and ruin
whatever it is in.

I have switched to "Energizer Ultimate Lithium" AA and AAA cells. They
claim to have more capacity to justify higher cost. Perhaps they do,
but my main concern is leakage. So far, I have not had any leak. Do
you have an opinion?

Fred

[Gareth Magennis]

"JW" wrote in message news:hnjotbt9nofrij5ep...@4ax.com...

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/duracell-alkaline-batteries-seem-to-have-a-bad-rap/msg1027983/#msg1027983






A quick check shows there is no evidence whatsoever in the OP link to
suggest that these batteries are indeed Duracell in genuine packaging.

[Rheilly Phoull]

On 17/09/2016 3:59 AM, JW wrote:
> http://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/duracell-alkaline-batteries-seem-to-have-a-bad-rap/msg1027983/#msg1027983
>
We used to buy them all the time and they never leaked when fully
discharged but nowadays they do. Caused me lots of problems with various
bits of kit. they must have changed the construction or suppliers.

[jurb...@gmail.com]

>"
>A quick check shows there is no evidence whatsoever in the OP link to
>suggest that these batteries are indeed Duracell in genuine >packaging. "

Is that to say you concur that they are counterfeit ?

We have had counterfeit semiconductors, and mostly they are not just an empty package, there is a transistor in there just it is inferior to the JANX or JEDEC or whatever makes the numbers standardized.

So say you own a battery company making an inferior part what do you do to make more money ? Just change the label, right ? Well that is how business is now. It's like they might take a 2N3055 and relabel it MJ15024. So they get six bucks instead of three bucks.

Before they did that they talked with the lawyers and the accountants and figured out what the gamble was, how much would it cost the in lawsuits in the worst case scenario and what are the chances of that happening ? Believe it or not I am about to get involved in exactly that about some amplifiers that need a physical modification because the bias regulators are not held to the heat sink. You know that is going to fry out. At this time, they have been lazy and uncooperative so I will put it to them - "Just sell them, and call them refurbs and give a very short warranty, you hurt your company name but we get these things the hell outta here". Actually I want a different job, these people are too "corporate" for me.

They give lip service but that's it. They come bitching about how stuff is piled up and I say "Buy some shelves, even those elcheapo plastic ones would work from the DIY that you stick together with the tubing". It has been three weeks. No shelves.

So they get from me what I get from them. I am just going to fix the obvious problem and ship them. Then they can refund all that money. It is not my problem.

[Gareth Magennis]

wrote in message
news:10ed962d-f166-4618...@googlegroups.com...

>"
>A quick check shows there is no evidence whatsoever in the OP link to
>suggest that these batteries are indeed Duracell in genuine >packaging. "

Is that to say you concur that they are counterfeit ?

Look, I haven't the time or inclination to wade through your pages of
waffle,
but yes, Counterfeit is a definite probability.

As is trolling. i.e. trying to discredit something or other via a
newsgroup.


Don't buy it.

[Jeff Liebermann]

The pictures were supplied by a friend. His desk is a mountain of
junk, some of it conductive. Brand new battery got tossed onto the
pile, where the exposed leads were shorted by something. Some time
later (delay unknown), there was a loud bang. It took him some time
to find the culprit, which was then photographed.

Unfortunately, he tossed the batteries before I could get my hands on
them to determine if they were real or counterfeit. I can't tell from
the photos. I bought an identical battery from a local retailer,
shorted the terminals with a #12 solid copper wire, and waited for the
explosion. Nothing but some noises from venting gasses, some smoke,
and plenty of heat. No bang. So, it might have been one cell with a
blocked vent plug, or possibly a counterfeit battery.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Fri, 16 Sep 2016 17:49:44 -0400, Fred McKenzie <fm...@aol.com>
wrote:

>In article <6ukotb9h93r3q5ea1...@4ax.com>,
> Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 16 Sep 2016 15:59:24 -0400, JW <no...@dev.null> wrote:
>>
>> >http://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/duracell-alkaline-batteries-seem-to-have-a-
>> >bad-rap/msg1027983/#msg1027983
>>
>> ... and the batteries that don't leak explode when shorted:
>> <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/Duracell/index.html>
>>
>> I've bought Duracell AA alkalines that leaked withing a week or three
>> after installation. No leaks in the package seen, although I'm not
>> surprised.

>My experience over the years is that any Alkaline cell can leak and ruin
>whatever it is in.

Agreed. I have a fair collection of flashlights that were ruined by
junk batteries. However, I don't keep records and have no data on
which cells are the culprits, or how long one can expect them to last
before leaking. Mostly, I use Costco Kirkland brand, which seems
better than most, but still eventually leaks.

>I have switched to "Energizer Ultimate Lithium" AA and AAA cells. They
>claim to have more capacity to justify higher cost. Perhaps they do,
>but my main concern is leakage. So far, I have not had any leak. Do
>you have an opinion?

They're very good batteries, but also rather expensive.
<http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?368072-Test-Review-of-Energizer-Ultimate-Lithium-AA>
In AA, these are $2/ea versus about $0.40/ea for Kirkland AA alkaline.

Where possible, I prefer to sustitute rechargeable NiCd or NiMH
batteries for alkaline, or purchase something that runs on LiIon. So
far, the Eneloop NiMH cells, which have a very low self discharge
rate, seem the best compromise between performance, life, self
discharge, and cost at about $2/ea.

[Mr. Man-wai Chang]

On 17/09/16 03:59, JW wrote:
> http://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/duracell-alkaline-batteries-seem-to-have-a-bad-rap/msg1027983/#msg1027983
>

IN addition to posting the source URL link, you should also write a
summary so that we don't need to waste time to read the long chat log...

--
@~@ Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch! Live long and prosper!!
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/( _ )\ May the Force and farces be with you!
^ ^ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10) Linux 2.6.39.3
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http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa

[Jeff Liebermann]

A somewhat longer check found some interesting items about Duracell
batteries. Draw your own conclusions from the anecdotal evidence:

"Duracell Batteries Leak In Normal Use, Class Action Claims"
<https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/lawsuit-news/45069-duracell-batteries-leak-normal-use-class-action-claims/>

Leaking Duracell battery video:
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cLx32dSwoQ>

Quite a few consumer complaints about leaking batteries:
<http://www.complaintsboard.com/?search=duracell>

Photos of another Duracell battery leaks while still in the package:
<http://www.moonmoth.net/duracell/index.htm>
<http://www.moonmoth.net/duracell/images/IMG_2547.jpg>

Exploding AA Duracell:
<https://russmcduff.wordpress.com/2012/01/15/exploding-aa-duracell-battery/>

[JW]

On Sat, 17 Sep 2016 23:06:54 +0800 "Mr. Man-wai Chang"
<toylet...@gmail.com> wrote in Message id:
<nrjm68$2jf$1...@dont-email.me>:

>On 17/09/16 03:59, JW wrote:
>> http://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/duracell-alkaline-batteries-seem-to-have-a-bad-rap/msg1027983/#msg1027983
>>
>
>IN addition to posting the source URL link, you should also write a
>summary so that we don't need to waste time to read the long chat log...

Tough titty, asshat.

[Gareth Magennis]

"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
news:56rqtbl5f1lgm9nbe...@4ax.com...

On Fri, 16 Sep 2016 22:56:31 +0100, "Gareth Magennis"
<soundser...@outlook.com> wrote:

>"JW" wrote in message news:hnjotbt9nofrij5ep...@4ax.com...
>http://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/duracell-alkaline-batteries-seem-to-have-a-bad-rap/msg1027983/#msg1027983

>A quick check shows there is no evidence whatsoever in the OP link to
>suggest that these batteries are indeed Duracell in genuine packaging.

A somewhat longer check found some interesting items about Duracell
batteries. Draw your own conclusions from the anecdotal evidence:

"Duracell Batteries Leak In Normal Use, Class Action Claims"
<https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/lawsuit-news/45069-duracell-batteries-leak-normal-use-class-action-claims/>

Jeff, I think you will find that the OP posted photos of packaged unused
batteries that had leaked before use.

Gareth.

[Gareth Magennis]

Draw your own conclusions from the anecdotal evidence:

Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

"Anecdotal evidence" is a bit of an Oxymoron, surely?


Gareth.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sat, 17 Sep 2016 22:25:46 +0100, "Gareth Magennis"
<soundser...@outlook.com> wrote:

>"Anecdotal evidence" is a bit of an Oxymoron, surely?
>Gareth.

Not really, unless you prefer the quantity of evidence over the
quality of evidence. The only problem with anecdotal evidence is the
lack of a sufficiently large sample for the observations to be
considered statistically relevant. However, that happens in a court
of law all the time. For example, all you need is one witness and a
corroborating witness to send someone to jail. That's no larger a
sample size of the possible observations than the leaking Duracell in
it's customer proof plastic packaging. Similarly, in civil trials,
it's the preponderance of evidence that decides the outcome, which is
nothing more than what each side can produce as anecdotal evidence.
Much as I would like to have peer reviewed, authoritative, and
properly documented evidence, with copious footnotes and sources, it's
unlikely to happen on the internet. If you don't like my anecdotes,
you can always get your own.



--

[Gareth Magennis]

"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message

news:eofrtbddlf5fviu1d...@4ax.com...

If you don't like my anecdotes,
you can always get your own.



--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff,
I don't like your anecdotes, they are worthless.

Don't try and trade them as facts.


Gareth.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 18 Sep 2016 00:52:41 +0100, "Gareth Magennis"
<soundser...@outlook.com> wrote:

>Jeff,
>I don't like your anecdotes, they are worthless.
>Don't try and trade them as facts.
>Gareth.

Is that an invitation to exchange insults? Gosh, I haven't done that
in maybe 10 years. I'm not sure I remember how to be abusive,
abrasive, and obnoxious. However, I'll give it my best effort while
attempting to stay on topic. Let's see... leaking Duracell batteries.

Kinda sounds like your ability to scribble something worth reading is
running down. Since you're obviously running on Duracell batteries, I
suggest you upgrade to something rechargeable, which should provide
the necessary brain boost.

How am I doing? Your turn.

[jurb...@gmail.com]

>"Jeff,
>I don't like your anecdotes, they are worthless.
>
>Don't try and trade them as facts. "

I stuck my finger in a light socket anf got a shock.

So go right ahead and do it because anecdotal evidence means nothing.

And hey, I am going point a gun at a cop, because the evidence that I will get killed is only andecdotal.

I am going to steal a car and drive 150 MPH through a school zone too.

There's the door, don't let it hit you where the dog should've bit you.

This attitude that anecdotal evidence is useless is a bunch of shit. Science, thoughout the years was done by trial and error. They got you motherfuckers brainwashed. Go ahead and try to use a 2N3055 for a 2SB425 and see what happens. And when the smoke comes out, try it again because anecdotal evidence does not count.

What the fuck kind of planet are you people on ? Even the discovery of the elements on the periodic table is anectodal. "I tried this kind of acid on it and it did not react" and "I tried that kind of acid on it and it did react" and "I found that is take X degrees of heat to melt this substance" and shit like that.

How the fuck can you not realize that everything you read was written by a person and therefore is anecdotal ? I bet you think the sky is blue. The sky is not blue. And the sun does not rise.

But I just posted this for the world because you can't be "arsed" to read my "waffle".

[jurb...@gmail.com]

>"How am I doing? Your turn. "

Better'n him. People forget. I know you are a Jew, but you are a USian Jew. That means that you got all the arrogance we got plus about 14 % more. See all the business owners you've run across in your life ? Well they are business owners because they were too arrogant to work for anyone else.

That is one of the reasons jobs are never coming back to the US. They wat little lambs, sheep, cattle to herd and work their money making machine. Read Sloman, to him if the government didn't say it it is not true. And the Nazis killed 6,000,000 Jews. Not 6,000,001 or 5,999,999, Ed Zachary six million. And note, even if is was more like three million which is a more realistic estime, that doesn't make it right.

Like the WTC, anyone who questions the bullshit nd sketchy information pablum put out to the public and has questions is a conspiracy theorist and wears a tinfoil hat.

I think people like that would be called authoritarinists. Never question anything - as long as it is said by certain people. And whatever other people say is utter bullshit.

It is common in the UK ad related places, and possibly North Korea. It is utterly sickening.

I can tell that you got at least half of your knowledge by questioning everything. Here comes this sheep who says he doesn't want your help, as if Webster is going to post an answer to this questions. Or General Electric engineers or something.

BNrainwashed people like that detract from the value of Usenet and the internet in general. But don't killfile them. They can be entertaining at ties, especially if we help.

[JW]

On Sun, 18 Sep 2016 00:52:41 +0100 "Gareth Magennis"
<soundser...@outlook.com> wrote in Message id:
<bHkDz.1111320$yB.7...@fx37.am4>:

>
>
>"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
>news:eofrtbddlf5fviu1d...@4ax.com...
>
>
>If you don't like my anecdotes,
>you can always get your own.
>
>
>
>--
>Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
>150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
>Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
>Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
>
>
>
>
>
>Jeff,
>I don't like your anecdotes, they are worthless.

I don't like your opinions, they are less than worthless.

>Don't try and trade them as facts.

*YAWN*

[Roger Blake]

On 2016-09-18, JW <no...@dev.null> wrote:
> I don't like your opinions, they are less than worthless.

You are a liar, a coward, and a weakling.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Blake (Posts from Google Groups killfiled due to excess spam.)

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Don't talk to cops! -- http://www.DontTalkToCops.com
Badges don't grant extra rights -- http://www.CopBlock.org
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 18 Sep 2016 03:28:27 -0700 (PDT), jurb...@gmail.com wrote:

>>"How am I doing? Your turn. "
>

>I know you are a Jew, but you are a USian Jew.

I was born in Germany. Parents are Polish. Ancestors are mostly
Russian. I came to the USA when I was about 5 years old.

>That means that you got all the arrogance we got plus about 14 % more.

Just because we run everything, manage everything, own everything, and
control everything, doesn't mean we have to arrogant about it. Being
arrogant in public is a quick ticket to an immediate downfall,
something Jews are well aware of. We may be the smartest, best, most
powerful, and most knowledgeable, but it would stupid to mention it in
public. It tends to attract attention, something we really don't need
or want.

>See all the business owners you've run across in your life ? Well
>they are business owners because they were too arrogant to work
>for anyone else.

It's hard to be humble, but we manage. The Jewish culture from Europe
tended to favor starting a small business, rather than working for a
large corporation. Jews tend to be better at that because their
parents also ran small businesses. The benefits of watching my
parents make all the basic mistakes is incalculable.

>That is one of the reasons jobs are never coming back to the US.

Huh? Get real dude. Joe Sixpack and Soccer Moms voted with their
dollars. They want the cheapest products, period, while maintaining
the highest standard of living on the planet. Everything else is
secondary. Well, the American industry has delivered what the
consumer demanded.

>They wat little lambs, sheep, cattle to herd and work their money
>making machine.

Sure. Why else would I hire someone if I couldn't pay them less than
the money they made for me? I'm not a philanthropist and can't run at
a loss. Kinda looks like you're just jealous that Jews run the
economy. I can explain how this happened, but that would take too
long. Let's just say you don't have what it takes.

>Read Sloman, to him if the government didn't say it it is not
>true. And the Nazis killed 6,000,000 Jews. Not 6,000,001 or
>5,999,999, Ed Zachary six million. And note, even if is was more
>like three million which is a more realistic estime, that doesn't
>make it right.

A million here, a million there. Soon, we'll be talking about real
people. (Apologies to Everett Dirksen).

In the US, Jews are about 2.2% of the US population (5.3 million
adults and 1.3 million children). Meanwhile, blacks are about 13%
while Hispanic/Latino are 17%. Now, ask yourself why such a small
minority of the US population seems to have such a big impact on your
paranoia?

>Like the WTC (...)

I like writing conspiracy theories, but don't like hearing them. I'll
pass, this time.

>I can tell that you got at least half of your knowledge by
>questioning everything.

Correct. I would say more than half. The trick is to not totally
freak out if you're wrong, pick up the pieces, and try again.
Eventually, you get a really good picture of how things really work,
whom to trust, what to believe, and who is lying. It's not based on
well known facts, expert opinions, authoritative proclamations, and
other wastes of my time, but rather a "feeling" that something is
wrong. The next step is to prove it, which is significantly more
difficult.

>Here comes this sheep who says he doesn't want your help, as
>if Webster is going to post an answer to this questions.
>Or General Electric engineers or something.

What have you done lately to help the sheep? Better yet, why should
you bother to help someone who can't even frame an intelligent
question or supply sufficient information for someone to provide a
useful answer? It's not because you want to help the sheep. If you
did that, all you'll do is perpetuate their lifestyle. It might be to
impress others in the forum or newsgroup, but that's unlikely because
those who are worth impressing also don't like show-offs. So, why?
It's because you would need to do some research and thinking to answer
their questions completely and accurately. In doing this research and
thinking, you will learn more about the topic, organize your thoughts,
and accumulate some knowledge. Sure, you'll make mistakes, be forced
to apologize, wreck your technical reputation, and such, but you will
learn. When the smoke clears, and the critics are long gone, you will
be far better at most everything than you were when you started.

>BNrainwashed people like that detract from the value of Usenet
>and the internet in general. But don't killfile them. They can be
>entertaining at ties, especially if we help.

Yep. May I suggest a few additional guidelines:
----------- Cut here and paste onto monitor ---------------------
1. Don't post anything that you would not consider worth reading. If
you don't like reading crap, don't post crap.
2. Try not to change the subject. It happens, but at least don't be
the culprit who does it.
3. You have a right to have an opinion. However, I don't care about
anyone's opinion unless it is substantiated by references, sources,
logic, and calculations.
4. Lose the personal insults, profanity, and cute one-liners. It
makes you sound like one of the clueless sheep you're complaining
about.
5. Say something nice once in a while. Thank people for their
assistance and corrections. Be tactful, diplomatic, and courteous. In
other words, act and be like a professional.
----------- Cut here and paste onto monitor ---------------------

[jurb...@gmail.com]

>"I was born in Germany. Parents are Polish. "

"ARE" ? Alive ? Hope you spend time with them.

>"We may be the smartest, best, most
>powerful, and most knowledgeable, but it would stupid to mention >it in public. It tends to attract attention, something we really >don't >need or want. "

My sarcasm detector is registering here. But there is truth to what you say. There is alot not said about the history of Germany, like about the banks between WW1 and WW2. But also, Jews owned alot of businesses. I was brought up a similar way, somehow. When I was a kid my favorite present at Christmas or birthdays was books. I wasn't into stupid toys n shit like that.

Being studious at a young age like that does result in, I believe a better mind. My Grandfather was as Polish as they get. I used to go over on Saturdays and sometimes we went scrapping. He had his retirement, only owed a few hundred on his house, had CDs maqturing every month, and still got in his Ford Pinto ad drove it at 5 MPH scrapping, picking up those aluminum frame lawn chairs. He would strip them down and then when he had enough to literally fill the hatchback part of the car take them in. He knew how to use his mirrors. Later he started picking up TVs. We fixed a few and one Saturday I go over and he hands me some money. I asked what is this for and he told me he sold one of the TVs we had fixed together. While we were doing it, money had never entered my mind. However, later when I got to working age he said to me "Make them pay you". Meaning that, for example if "they" could get your services for $2 an hour "they" would have no shame in doing so, and such is the business world. He came up with a modification for knitting mills and the company who built them paid everything and flew him in at $500 per day to teach their engineers how to do it.

>"Huh? Get real dude. Joe Sixpack and Soccer Moms voted with their
>dollars. They want the cheapest products, period, while >maintaining the highest standard of living on the planet. "

I have been saying something like that for years. In the 1970s when they wet to Kmart and saw a Zenith TV for $269 and a Sanyo for $229 they were happy to pocket the forty bucks. I absolutely agree, and the fact is I am starting to favor protectionism. Like these compaies who threaten the government that they'll leave if the taxes go up. GO, you ain't paying anything anyway. Ad then I would slap them with company specific tariffs. You paying now. And it would no longer be open season on the US consumer, you supply mandatory warrantees and parts on anything that costs over a hundred bucks. California used to have a law something like that until enough bribe, err lobby money got paid, and some places in Europe do have such laws. As much as I am against more laws, I favor something like that. It is ridiculous when a buddt of mine bought a new Samsung DLP and it broke under warranty ad threy said parts were no longer available. Then the state attorney general told him not to try to sue on his own or he would be excluded from a future class action lawsuit, which never happened.

Still enjoying that forty bucks folks ? That forty bucks also sent Zenith to Mexico. Their sales went up 4 % and profits like tripled or something like that.

>"Correct. I would say more than half. "

There is almost like a miniseries in the new Outer Limits about a guy who gets cold fusion to work and makes booms, and is an evil motherfucker. I think the name is "Final Exam" and it runs into other episodes including a Woman who builds a time machine and goes back and kills murderers before they commit the murder. Used to be available on hulu for free, not sure now but if you think you might be interested I'll find out and dig around the back of my head for all the episode names. They were not aired sequentially. They were a nice diversion and brought up some moral issues.

>"What have you done lately to help the sheep? "

Less and less. I am to the point of advocating a mass reduction in world population.

>"2. Try not to change the subject. It happens, but at least >don't be the culprit who does it. "

The subject is out the wodow. Seriously I had to look up at the title bar of my browser (which some don't have anymore another gripe I got) to find out this is about counterfeit batteries.

>"5. Say something nice once in a while."

OK, you generally try to help people here and have a pretty wide knowledge base. Sometimes you give an opinion but I find that usually those are well thought out, not flippant etc.

On the other hand, some Europeans and Australians have a superiority complex.

Until they get into a war.

The joke about France, old guy was at the airport and didn't have a visa, they asked if he had ever been there before ad didn't he have a visa ?". He said something to the effect that he was in the army and when he got there, there were no Frenchmen around to show it to. Go ahead with your attitude up there in England or down under, and when some Muslim assholes attack you we might just show you that we are too stupid to shoot straight. After all, these assholes are on the internet every day calling us barbarians because we got guns.

>"Be tactful, diplomatic, and courteous. In
>other words, act and be like a professional. "

I do that at work,, this is Usenet.

[Gareth Magennis]

"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message

news:54lttb1qr9hovpe6i...@4ax.com...

On Sun, 18 Sep 2016 03:28:27 -0700 (PDT), jurb...@gmail.com wrote:

>>"How am I doing? Your turn. "
>
>I know you are a Jew, but you are a USian Jew.

I was born in Germany. Parents are Polish. Ancestors are mostly
Russian. I came to the USA when I was about 5 years old.

>That means that you got all the arrogance we got plus about 14 % more.

Just because we run everything, manage everything, own everything, and
control everything, doesn't mean we have to arrogant about it. Being
arrogant in public is a quick ticket to an immediate downfall,
something Jews are well aware of. We may be the smartest, best, most
powerful, and most knowledgeable, but it would stupid to mention it in
public. It tends to attract attention, something we really don't need
or want.

Wow, just Wow.


Gareth.

[Gareth Magennis]

"Gareth Magennis" wrote in message
news:8vDDz.1833563$jB.13...@fx43.am4...

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 18 Sep 2016 12:52:44 -0700 (PDT), jurb...@gmail.com wrote:

>>"I was born in Germany. Parents are Polish. "
>
>"ARE" ? Alive ? Hope you spend time with them.

Sorry. Bad choice of words. They are both dead.

>There is almost like a miniseries in the new Outer Limits about a
>guy who gets cold fusion to work and makes booms, and is an evil

>motherfucker. I think the name is "Final Exam"...

There's more here than you might suspect. While I was quite young, my
favorite diversion was reading comic books. I would routinely get
thrown out of the local drug store for reading comic books off the
rack without buying at least one. Learning to speed read was an
obvious result.

I continued my habit of reading comic books long after growing up and
reading other types of books. Over the years, I noticed a change. In
the older books, the businessman was either the hero, or the victim of
the bad guy. At worst, the super-hero was there to protect the
businessman from evil. Scientists were also there to do all kinds of
cool things with brilliant inventions.

Then, it slowly changed. The businessman suddenly became the villain.
The great scientist became the mad scientist, evil genius, or insane
lunatic. Over the years, details were added, such as the businessman
making or inheriting tons of money, which immediately turned him to
the dark side. Meanwhile, the victims became archetypical nobodies,
who have never done anything remarkable in their lives, and are easily
susceptible to the machinations of the bad guy. The characters were
often color coded by their abilities or IQ to make sure they were
properly classified by the reader.

It made me sick to read this rubbish, so I gave up on comic books in
about 1980 and sold my collection. However, I couldn't resist reading
an occasional comic book and found that they had morphed into "action"
stories, which largely mirror today's "action" movies. Is life so
boring that we have to resort to ludicrous exaggerations of reality?
When was the last time we had a real street chase scene where the
participants destroyed everything in their paths?

So, what's wrong here? The Outer Limits was in the 1950's and was
before the trend to vilify businessmen and scientists. I guess it
could be considered ahead of its time. It wasn't hugely successful in
the 1950's mostly because few people swallowed the pitch line. We
were the greatest country after winning WWII and nobody is going to
tread on our arrogant self-image. Today, The Outer Limits still has
its following, is considered a cult classic, and has people like you
offering its messages as some kind of morality lesson. Were someone
able to make cold fusion work, they would be (in my never humble
opinion) a hero, worthy of the highest acclaim, not because they made
it work, but because they ignored all the nay sayers who said it
couldn't work. They would certainly not be a bomb builder and evil
scientist in the comic book and The Outer Limits traditions.

>On the other hand, some Europeans and Australians have a superiority complex.

Only if they're also Jewish.

>>"Be tactful, diplomatic, and courteous. In
>>other words, act and be like a professional. "
>
>I do that at work,, this is Usenet.

In the last 20 years, the internet, and in some areas Usenet, have
become the new reality. It is possible to go through an entire day
without leaving the computer. Everything is done on the internet. I
just got done buying cannibalized electronic parts and pieces on eBay.
If the prediction that we will all become "knowledge workers" is for
real, the internet will be your work. Try to act accordingly or you
will find that how you make your bed, is how you will sleep in it.

[jurb...@gmail.com]

>"Sorry. Bad choice of words. They are both dead."

In my case Dad is gone but ma is still here. I really wish there was more to talk about but there isn't. She is not into talking politics or electronics which is about it for me.

>"Learning to speed read was an obvious result. "

I used to be pretty good but the eyesight does not allow it anymore. Actually I can read paper more easily then a computer screen but I am simply not up to printing everything. Thought I did print the Protocols Of The Learned Elders OF Zion. Forgery or not, they got something to say. Like, I am an atheist but I read Revelations. More than once. My Father read the Bible and the Book Of Mormon cover to cover. The Mormons came to the house once. ONCE. In fact the Jehovah's Witnesses came to the house once. ONCE. He knew more than they did about their books. But then once he retired, I still went to work and he sat there and needed something to do. And he invited them in and gave them a cup of coffee and all that, but they did not come back often.

>"...and found that they had morphed into "action"
>stories, which largely mirror today's "action" movies..."

I can't stand new movies and most of the TV shows. All fluff, not much plot and some of them look like they gave the camera to a ten year old. Even switching it to mono (if you even have that option) might not make the dialog intelligible. It helps. But even back in the 1960s 1970s mt Grandfather used to bitch that the music was too loud on the movies.

>"Today, The Outer Limits still has
>its following, is considered a cult classic, and has people like >you offering its messages as some kind of morality lesson."

Not really, but it raises questions. The episode where the broad goes back in time and kills killers before they kill, think about that. Though fiction, think about that. And that is for us humans to think about, not just judges and lawyers and politicians. You go back in time and kill those who WILL be guilty to save the innocent, is that moral ?

In fact Gene Rodenberry got that subject up quite a bit, somewhat in TOS but alot more in TNG. Shame he died but he was born in the 1920s or some shit and was about ready. Rest in peace.

>">On the other hand, some Europeans and Australians have a >superiority complex.
>
>Only if they're also Jewish. "

As far as I can tell, not really. They seem to be jealous of our gu rights. They call us all kinds of names. Like we are cowards for carrying a gun and shit like that. And of course with the statistics. Fact is you take about five cities out of it we got lower murder rates than they do. There are alot of assholes in this country, alot in the inner cities, and then we got gang wars. they got good education and they watch their kids and can see when they stat going wrong. Here, Daddy is at work and Mommy is at the bar. When they don't get that guidance in the first five tears or so, there is no fixing that. I knew how to read and write and basic math before I ever went to school. Now teachers bitch that the kids don't even know their color and basic shapes. And that is because these n----s of every color do not teach them anything they just put them in a car seat and go smoke a joint.

I got nothing against pot, I like it alot, but when you have kids they come first.

>"Were someone able to make cold fusion work, they would be (in my >never humble opinion) a hero, worthy of the highest acclaim, not >because they made it work, but because they ignored all the nay >sayers who said it couldn't work. They would certainly not be a >bomb builder and evil scientist in the comic book and The Outer >Limits traditions. "

Actually I have done a few things like that, but nothing of that scale of course. But the dude had a test in front of him in class and is had a question on it that read "Explain why cold fusion cannot work" and after a little though he walked out, and then planted a bunch of bombs at the school and pretty much held it hostage. Four hours of intertwined plots, I can relate all of it if you really don't want to watch it but really, you might want to just get some bagels and lox and watch them. Four one hour parts. I thought it as good as any Star Trek I had ever seen and I saw them all until Abrams took over and run it into the ground.

>"Try to act accordingly or you will find that how you make your >bed, is how you will sleep in it. "

Yeah but some people just have it coming.

[Adrian Tuddenham]

JW <no...@dev.null> wrote:

>
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/duracell-alkaline-batteries-seem-to-ha

ve-a-bad-rap/msg1027983/#msg1027983

A relative of mine imported the first batch of Duracell rechargeables
into the UK and gave ma a dozen of them to test. I left six of them on
a bedroom window sill and put six of them into a battery-operated tape
recorder where they would get moderate use.

Within three months, the cells in the tape recorder began leaking and
had to be thrown away. I then checked the cells on the window sill and
found they were leaking too.

--
~ Adrian Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

[JW]

On Sun, 18 Sep 2016 14:58:48 -0000 (UTC) Roger Blake
<rogb...@iname.invalid> wrote in Message id:
<2016091...@news.eternal-september.org>:

>On 2016-09-18, JW <no...@dev.null> wrote:
>> I don't like your opinions, they are less than worthless.
>
>You are a liar, a coward, and a weakling.

Ditto for you.

[Roger Blake]

On 2016-09-19, JW <no...@dev.null> wrote:
> Ditto for you.

Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries.

[JW]

On Tue, 20 Sep 2016 01:36:31 -0000 (UTC) Roger Blake

<rogb...@iname.invalid> wrote in Message id:
<2016091...@news.eternal-september.org>:

>On 2016-09-19, JW <no...@dev.null> wrote:
>> Ditto for you.
>
>Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries.

Come back when you've had enough of your "Yap! Yap! Yap!" routine and feel
like trying for a bite at my ankle instead of trying to hump it. TIA.

[Benderthe.evilrobot]

"Roger Blake" <rogb...@iname.invalid> wrote in message
news:2016091...@news.eternal-september.org...

> On 2016-09-19, JW <no...@dev.null> wrote:
>> Ditto for you.
>
> Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries.

You have to bind a hamster with sellotape so it doesn't split when you fuck
it.

[Benderthe.evilrobot]

<ohg...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:50f200ae-cfbb-4718...@googlegroups.com...
> On Friday, September 16, 2016 at 3:59:29 PM UTC-4, JW wrote:
>> http://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/duracell-alkaline-batteries-seem-to-have-a-bad-rap/msg1027983/#msg1027983
>
> Too lazy to read the link but I know for a fact that name brand batteries
> (Duracell and Energizer specifically) are known to be counterfeited. Not
> saying that has anything to do with the link but just throwing that out
> there.

Just taken a pair of dead Duracell AA cells out of a TV remote that had been
laying around a long time - no evidence of leakage at all.

Kodak Extralife from the £ store are much cheaper and last nearly as long,
so I buy a couple of packs when I remember - just got to the back of the
drawer where I keep them and found a couple of dud cells. One had a bit of
corrosion on the negative contact, the other was clean.

[jurb...@gmail.com]

>"Just taken a pair of dead Duracell AA cells out of a TV >remote that had been laying around a long time - no evidence >of leakage at all. "

That does not respond to what you responding to. He is talking about counterfeit batteries. What's more, heavy duty cells should not be used in remote controls because their power drain is so low. Operational battery life approaches shelf life.

>"One had a bit of corrosion on the negative contact, the >other was clean. "

Also proves nothing. A Kodak is a different brand and even if they were made at the same factory it could have been to different specs. And corrosion does not prove a leak at all.

If people are really getting leaks in those Duracells it is actually more likely that they "streamlined" their manufacturing process.

To know for sure you need to cut the thing apart and measure everything and then do a chemical analysis. If that fails to prove anything then you have to cut some more and look at the seams for defects. For a AA battery ?

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 3 Oct 2016 17:17:57 -0700 (PDT), jurb...@gmail.com wrote:
(...)

Look what I found on my battery "shelf":
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/Kirkland-AAA-leak.jpg>
They were unopened until today, when I ripped open the left side to
pull out a few batteries.

They're marked with a 7 shelf life. I'm only 2.7 years over the 2014
expiration date, but have no idea when I bought them. I guess it's
"use them or lose them" because I stupidly used up newer battery
packages before diving into the older batteries buried in the back of
the battery "shelf".

Grumble, and $15 gone. Oddly, most of the batteries I pulled out and
cleaned seem to work. I'll run a capacity test on a leaky battery
later. No, I'm not going to put an expired and leaking battery in my
toys.

[jurb...@gmail.com]

>"Grumble, and $15 gone. "

That's nothing. You probably have your first dollar and you got better credit than at least 90 % of the population in this country.

But I do understand that $15 is probably $20 today. That can probably still get you a bag of weed over there in case you happen to smoke it.

Anyway, I think we have to see by now that batteries leak whether you use them or not. When depends on the brand I guess, or not so much. Maybe the manufacturer. The company that sells Duracells is probably not in the US so they probably have them made elswhere. Hell, Union Carbide was doing that in India when my sister still needed a fake ID to drink. Boy if I had some money when their stock dropped like a rock I could have made a nice little pile.

Speaking of which, how come that package says "Piles" on it ? Is that some foreign word for batteries ? In fact those aren't even batteries technically, they are cells. A battery means a bunch of them like a nine volt. But like alot of words in this country, they are used incorrectly, but once accepted the thing is that the listener understands the speaker. But I have never seen the word piles on anything of the sort.

We have to treat them like electrolytic caps I guess. I have read plenty of people reporting that they leaked without ever being used.

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <d33428cf-de93-496f...@googlegroups.com>,
jurb...@gmail.com says...

>
rock I could have made a nice little pile.
>
> Speaking of which, how come that package says "Piles" on it ? Is that some foreign word for batteries ? In fact those aren't even batteries technically, they are cells. A battery means a bunch of them like a nine volt. But like alot of words in this country, they are used incorrectly, but once accepted the thing is that the listener understands the speaker. But I have never seen the word piles on anything of
the sort.
>

That is French for Battery ( or some such equal word). I bet if you
look at the packge you will see some other words that may not be spelled
in American English. Probably more French. That is to save from
printing seperate packages for different languages.


Not sure how it relates to the modern usage,but the old batteries were
called Voltaic piles in honor of the man Volta that had a lot to do with
the first batteries (cells).

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Tue, 4 Oct 2016 10:40:47 -0700 (PDT), jurb...@gmail.com wrote:

>>"Grumble, and $15 gone. "
>
>That's nothing.

That's my lunch plus a tip.

>You probably have your first dollar

It was a $2 bill and it disappeared in a move long ago. I replaced it
with my first rubber check.

>and you got better credit than at least 90 % of
>the population in this country.

Yep. I am authorized by my predatory bank (Wells Fargo) to dig a
bigger hole for myself and bury myself in it. As I get older, my
credit improves even though my income has dropped. That's because the
bank knows that I'll probably die before I pay off any loan and they
can then grab the collateral.

>But I do understand that $15 is probably $20 today.

Sorry. I don't recall what I paid. I just looked up what a 48 AAA
box is currently selling at Costco. If it's really 10 years old, then
I probably only paid about $10.

>That can probably still get you a bag of weed over there in
>case you happen to smoke it.

You would not believe how many retail "medical marijuana" places we
have in the area. At the present rate, they'll outnumber tattoo
parlors and electronic smoke shops. Looks like all I can get for $15
is a gram or two:
<http://health.costhelper.com/medical-cannabis.html>

>Anyway, I think we have to see by now that batteries leak whether
>you use them or not. When depends on the brand I guess, or not so
>much. Maybe the manufacturer.

I had previously proclaimed that Costco Kirkland batteries leak less
than Duracell batteries. Now, I'm not so sure. I guess the next
questions are what makes them leak and how do I prevent leakage?
Refrigeration?

>The company that sells Duracells is probably not in the US so
>they probably have them made elswhere. Hell, Union Carbide was
>doing that in India when my sister still needed a fake ID to
>drink. Boy if I had some money when their stock dropped like
>a rock I could have made a nice little pile.

Yep:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhopal_disaster>

>Speaking of which, how come that package says "Piles" on it ?
>Is that some foreign word for batteries ?

Dunno. A "bank" of batteries has always be referred to as a "pile".
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltaic_pile>
Note: This has little to do with my reference to a disorganized web
site as a "web pile".

>In fact those aren't even batteries technically, they are
>cells. A battery means a bunch of them like a nine volt. But
>like alot of words in this country, they are used incorrectly,
>but once accepted the thing is that the listener understands
>the speaker. But I have never seen the word piles on anything
>of the sort.

Thanks. I never thought of it that way. Sounds right.
However, words and phrases have a tendency to change meaning. If you
call a cell a battery often and long enough, the definition can
change.

>We have to treat them like electrolytic caps I guess. I have
>read plenty of people reporting that they leaked without
>ever being used.

Yep. As with drugs and foods, an expiration date is a nifty feature
for the manufacturer. Toss the battery out before it goes bad. Or,
like the bulging electrolytics, toss the entire product out before the
capacitors trash it. Kinda like a built in warranty timer.

[jurb...@gmail.com]

>"That's my lunch plus a tip. "

That's not an expensive lunch here. I can imagine there, perhaps a sandwich and bag of fries. And you probably want something to drink so that cuts into it even more.

I haven't gone out for lunch in years, everybody just pays through it if you eat there, at least where I have worked. Which brings us to a cute little true story.

I lived in Cleveland and worked in Willowick which is about 23 miles to the east. Show was getting more and more business even though we were seriously high performance. i did three times the work of my predecessor, and (maybe unfortunately taught them what to expect from a real tech) still it got to the point where we could not keep up with it.

I didn't drive, I have had license problems for a long time, but only recently did I stop driving due to my eyesight. anyway he gets introduced to me as "another Electrasound graduate". Electrasound was factory service for almost everyone back then. They required a very high level of competence and had the over 100 page test to prove it. i beat 154 other applicants and got the job, as well as rewrote their test. There was a question they give you the schematic and some voltage readings and wanted you to put numbers by the answers instead of just checking them off. Well I found an option they should have included but didn't. It got to the service manager and he said "Damn, he's right".

So between the two of this at the later company we had plety of clout. the boss would ask what we want for lunch and actually go get it for us. In retrospect I think we could have made them pay for it as well but that didn't occur to us.

So one day Rich (the other Electrasound graduate they called us)and I decided we wanted to go out for lunch so we went to the Ground Round for a few beers and some surf-n-turf. When it came time to go back to work Rich says "I don't like how he said "you guys won't come back" and i said "Me too". Then I forget who said it but "Know what we should do ?". So guess what we did. Now only that we called the shop and told him we need him to bring down about fifty bucks to pay the tab because we were caught short. His answer ? "I can't leave right now because everyone else is gone on the road". That was a lie but it was so much fun. Then we went to the strip joint after we caught a good enough buzz. Back then in Ohio you couldn't have nudity and alcohol in the same business.

I digressed greatly, I will get serious in another post.

[pf...@aol.com]

This horse is dead, flayed, flensed, rendered, tanned and dyed.

The difference between Duracell/Eveready/US-Made batteries is that if the units kill something, the Manufacturer will replace or pay. I received a check for $378 and change, representing the cost of a Geiger Counter that I purchased for $50 at surplus, when a pair of Eveready batteries self-destructed inside. They even refunded the cost of shipping the unit to them.

Otherwise, one is SOL and deserves _exactly_ what one gets.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Tue, 4 Oct 2016 13:56:54 -0700 (PDT), "pf...@aol.com" <pf...@aol.com>
wrote:

>The difference between Duracell/Eveready/US-Made batteries is
>that if the units kill something, the Manufacturer will replace
>or pay. I received a check for $378 and change, representing
>the cost of a Geiger Counter that I purchased for $50 at
>surplus, when a pair of Eveready batteries self-destructed inside.
>They even refunded the cost of shipping the unit to them.

Impressive. I managed to get about $20 from Eveready and $30 from
Mallory for trashing various Maglites. I've filed a few random claims
over the years, that usually get disappeared by the manufacturer.

>Otherwise, one is SOL and deserves _exactly_ what one gets.

Really? You seem ready to accept failure as inevitable and
inexorable. I think otherwise.

Ever wonder why there are alkaline cells around that live a normal and
useful life well beyond their expected lifetime? I've seen plenty of
really old alkaline batteries that simply discharged their coulombs
gracefully without a hint of leakage. Perhaps I'm using more alkaline
batteries these days, but I don't seem to recall such massive a
leakage problem during the 1970's. I certainly don't recall seeing
any leak in the original packaging.

It might also be useful for you to consider the possibility that the
leakage problem might be artificial and might easily be fixed by
better sealing methods or construction methods. This explains the
failure mechanism (hydrogen gas outgassing rupturing the vent seal).
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alkaline_battery#Leaks>
Now how hard would it be to make a better seal, or direct the gas away
from the electrolyte? I would be tempted to conjure a conspiracy
theory that this failure mode is intentional, since it sells plenty of
batteries. Why fix something that produces sales?

[pf...@aol.com]

Bluntly, this happens to consumers because they are either careless or lazy and would rather complain than take effective action. Battery makers, in my experience jump all over themselves to make customers happy. Do you think, after my experience I would ever buy a second tier battery?

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Tue, 4 Oct 2016 19:00:23 -0700 (PDT), "pf...@aol.com" <pf...@aol.com>
wrote:

>Bluntly, this happens to consumers because they are either
>careless or lazy and would rather complain than take effective
>action.

Right. Blame the victims. To most consumers, batteries are a
commodity item, where the various manufacturers and labels are
interchangeable. Perhaps an astute buying might read reviews or run a
few tests, but the GUM (great unwashed masses) will tend to buy the
same brand of battery repeatedly even when faced with demonstratable
failures, leaks, counterfeits, and marginal warranties. The Energizer
rabbit probably sold more batteries than any magazine or online
battery review.

Also, "effective action" usually follows a complaint. More
specifically, I have had a vendor spontaneously provide effective
action or financial compensation without me providing a suitable
complaint. Even if I were "careless and lazy", I can still produce a
suitable complaint, which just might produce "effective action" by the
battery vendor or manufacturer.

>Battery makers, in my experience jump all over themselves to
>make customers happy. Do you think, after my experience I would
>ever buy a second tier battery?

Yes, I do think you would, if you didn't know it was a second rate
battery. That happens all the time, when a manufacturer outsources
their production to the lowest bidder, changes supplier, or simply
cheapens the product. I can supply examples if you need them. I have
no idea what company manufacturers Kirkland batteries, or even if it's
only one company. Volume manufacturers usually have multiple
suppliers, between which they arrange bidding wars to produce the
absolute lowest possible price. A drop in quality is implied, but
never mentioned. If it lasts the warranty period, it's good enough.
In this case, the Kirkland batteries probably lasted the required 7
year shelf life.

If you were a Prepper, who stores batteries for some future
Armageddon, shelf life would be a major issue. Devices with low drain
and low duty cycle, where the battery would be expected to last well
beyond its shelf life is another problem area. For these users, there
are better types of cells available, such as Lithium AA at 5 times the
cost of alkaline cells. However, for the commodity applications,
alkaline cells are cheap, commonly available, cheap, fairly reliable,
cheap, warranties, cheap, and did I mention cheap? So for your
commodity applications, where a $2 cell is not an economical option,
you're stuck with the $0.40 alkaline cell. Yes, I think you will be
buying 2nd rate batteries, unless you can find a genuine leak proof
alkaline for the same price.

[pf...@aol.com]

On Tuesday, October 4, 2016 at 10:42:34 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:


> Yes, I do think you would, if you didn't know it was a second rate
> battery. That happens all the time, when a manufacturer outsources
> their production to the lowest bidder, changes supplier, or simply
> cheapens the product. I can supply examples if you need them. I have
> no idea what company manufacturers Kirkland batteries, or even if it's
> only one company.

Now, here is where you go off the rails. When one purchases a 'house brand' to save a few pennies towards a critical application, the consequences of such a choice are to be factored into it. "I have no idea what company..." means that you accept without qualification or complaint that these devices may be second tier.

And that is exactly my point. Batteries, whether in use or not are wearing parts - just like tires. In an urban setting or areas where there are elevated levels of ozone, tires 'age out" in anywhere between 3 and 6 years depending on the type and composition. Those who do not keep this in mind are taking their lives in their hands.

Battery manufacturers make their batteries *JUST* good enough to support their price-point, and no more. Those that do not support an infrastructure that provides warranties and replacements are at a significant advantage. And, like lemmings, the great unwashed gobble them up based on price, alone. Then have the temerity to whine and pule about the results.

Two things - one philosophical, one very practical: If that first package of underwear at $3.29 from China stayed on the shelf for the $3.69 package made in the US, life would be different in this country today. But, no, the great unwashed gobbled them up, saving that $0.40. Little did they realize or care that their neighbors lost their jobs thereby *UNTIL* their own jobs were threatened - and you could hear them howl three states away. Do you want to give up a small, but vital technology to the Chinese? Do you want it such that your flashlight/radio/game depends on a 12,000 mile supply line crossing (at least) one ocean?

Lastly, do you know that there is not one single LCD device manufactured in the US. Not one. That Boeing aircraft would have analog controls were it to depend on US sources. Or, that fighter jet, gauges in a nuclear submarine. The US does not even have the tooling or basic infrastructure to make LCD devices were the need to arise. It would probably take 2-3 years to ramp up. So, yes, we can entirely lose vital industries by neglect, ignorance or by simply not recognizing the implications.

[jurb...@gmail.com]

>"Lastly, do you know that there is not one single LCD device >manufactured in the US. Not one. That Boeing aircraft would >have analog controls were it to depend on US sources. Or, >that fighter jet, gauges in a nuclear submarine. The US does >not even have the tooling or basic infrastructure to make LCD >devices were the need to arise. It would probably take 2-3 >years to ramp up. So, yes, we can entirely lose vital >industries by neglect, ignorance or by simply not recognizing >the implications. "

No rockets either, the US buys them from Russia. So bitch Clinton wants to start shit with them. And both candidates probably want to start shit in the South China Sea.

Good thinking. How's that globalism working out forya now ?

[Chuck]

On Tue, 04 Oct 2016 10:11:15 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Mon, 3 Oct 2016 17:17:57 -0700 (PDT), jurb...@gmail.com wrote:
>(...)
>
>Look what I found on my battery "shelf":
><http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/Kirkland-AAA-leak.jpg>
>They were unopened until today, when I ripped open the left side to
>pull out a few batteries.
>
>They're marked with a 7 shelf life. I'm only 2.7 years over the 2014
>expiration date, but have no idea when I bought them. I guess it's
>"use them or lose them" because I stupidly used up newer battery
>packages before diving into the older batteries buried in the back of
>the battery "shelf".
>
>Grumble, and $15 gone. Oddly, most of the batteries I pulled out and
>cleaned seem to work. I'll run a capacity test on a leaky battery
>later. No, I'm not going to put an expired and leaking battery in my
>toys.

I have never seen alkaline AAA batteries of any brand where some
didn't leak. As far as AA ones go, Kirkland and the AA that Dollar
General used to have manufactured in Indonesia seemed to leak the
least.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

[pf...@aol.com]

On Wednesday, October 5, 2016 at 12:29:01 PM UTC-4, jurb...@gmail.com wrote:

> No rockets either, the US buys them from Russia. So bitch Clinton wants to start shit with them. And both candidates probably want to start shit in the South China Sea.
>
> Good thinking. How's that globalism working out forya now ?

RANT WARNING RANT WARNING

We have enough "Rockets" to vaporize all of Asia and Europe several times over, and with capacity to spare. What we do not have are man-lifting rockets in place. We absolutely have the capacity to make such rockets from the Saturn V up to de-mothballing a shuttle, and in surprisingly short order. My concern is related to not having the capacity to make it at all.

The LCD screen was invented in Pittsburgh, PA and refined in Switzerland. Despite that, we do not have the *CAPACITY* to make them in this country at all. Not the tooling, not the technology, not even the legacy knowledge. It is a subtle, but very important difference.

And, for the political record, it is the lack of understanding of this difference that is an indication of how big a problem systemic ignorance is in the good old USA.

We get exactly the government we deserve, as we vote them in time after time after time, and every part and piece of our government devolves back to those elected "representatives" as by deliberate choice or by neglect, they permit all those parts and pieces to continue.

The difference between *your* politicians and *my* politicians is that mine tell me the lies that I want to hear, yours tell you the lies you want to hear. That they are lying is neither in doubt or a subject of debate. But, to get direct, getting in bed with Putin is probably not a good idea. And 'starting shit' with him has the virtue of putting him in the same position as pretty much every other Russian/Soviet leader has been since the 1940s - on the top of a shaky edifice sustained only by the passivity of the populace. The greatest fear of any dictator/autocrat is the loss of that power. Putin is not stupid, and understands that he will get away with everything if not challenged. As long as there is a scintilla of actual risk to his power, he will back down.

Lastly, keep in mind that the Average American:

Does not have a college education.
Does not have a passport.
Speaks one language - badly.
Has never traveled voluntarily more than 200 miles from his/her birthplace.
Has never visited a foreign country, not even the Mexico or Canada.
Cannot name the Speaker of the House, even today.
Cannot name the three branches of government.
Does not believe in Evolution (42% creationism, 32% evolution, 26% no opinion).
Only 71.2% of eligible voters are registered.
Only 57.5% of registered voters voted in 2012.
Meaning that the average American eligible to vote does not vote (only 41.5% net).

And you think that our present government is anything other than exactly what we deserve, doing exactly what we should expect it to do based on what we tell it (and allow) it to do?

This has not one damned thing to do with party, democrat, republican, libertarian, communist, green, whatever. It has to do with massive, systemic and deliberate neglect, and industrial-grade stupidity mixed equally with mil.Spec. ignorance.

Like some few of you here, I have lived in another culture vastly different from here - and I have seen how Americans are perceived in other parts of the world. You might be surprised how easily it is for other cultures to separate Americans (whom they largely respect and admire) from American Culture (continuous amazement, mixed with a varying amounts of jealousy and horror) and the American Government (poorly understood, largely disliked - much as here). Would that Americans had the same ability to separate the individual and sub-group from the various other parts and pieces of the entirety in other cultures and regions.

[jurb...@gmail.com]

>"We have enough "Rockets" to vaporize all of Asia and Europe >several times over, and with capacity to spare."

Then why have they never defended this country ?

[pf...@aol.com]

On Wednesday, October 5, 2016 at 7:04:32 PM UTC-4, jurb...@gmail.com wrote:
> >"We have enough "Rockets" to vaporize all of Asia and Europe >several times over, and with capacity to spare."
>
> Then why have they never defended this country ?

Lemme see....

Please tell me how a nuclear holocaust defends anyone or anything?
Please tell me exactly how a "rocket" defends any one or any thing?
Do you understand the concept of MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction)?

Now, you first decry how we "have no rockets", and when it becomes clear that we do, now you are shifting your premise.

One would think that you are at least logically challenged. I think it goes much deeper than that - that you are both ignorant and the victim of received wisdom, having no ability to think for yourself. That is a sad condition as you have no ability to discern truth from fiction and threat from perception.

[jurb...@gmail.com]

>"Lemme see...."

I don't know from where you derived all that but all I can say is to read the lines, not between the lines.

Pearl Harbor, the WTC, all they got are excuses and they don't hold much water.

They started this "read between the lines" shit when I was in school. My thought was - if that is what he meant why the fuck didn't he just type it ?

But I'll admit you have better reasoning skills then I, you can reason bullshit that isn't there.

[pf...@aol.com]

Thank you for carefully avoiding taking responsibility for the question you asked, or for clarifying the basis on which it was asked.

Of course, by making several statements, I must also ask where "rockets" or the 1941 equivalent thereof, would have stopped the US from entering into WWII, or is that a conspiracy too? Keep in mind that the conspiracy theorists believe that Roosevelt know all about the attack and allowed it to happen to get the US into to war... Is that your position as well?

Give you the credibility and sensibility of housefly, with apologies to the insect.

[ohg...@gmail.com]

On Thursday, October 6, 2016 at 1:25:43 PM UTC-4, pf...@aol.com wrote:
> Thank you for carefully avoiding taking responsibility for the question you asked, or for clarifying the basis on which it was asked.
>
> Of course, by making several statements, I must also ask where "rockets" or the 1941 equivalent thereof, would have stopped the US from entering into WWII, or is that a conspiracy too? Keep in mind that the conspiracy theorists believe that Roosevelt know all about the attack and allowed it to happen to get the US into to war... Is that your position as well?
>

> Peter Wieck
> Melrose Park, PA

I want to preface what I'm about to say in that I believe most conspiracy theorists are effing insane..

However: I do believe that Roosevelt and the U.S. military knew an attack was imminent. Roosevelt was elected on a non-intervention platform that was extremely popular at that time, particularly since WWI was still in recent memory. The anti-war movement in America was quite large and vocal. By the time 1941 rolled around, it was clear that Nazi Germany would likely defeat England and we'd be fighting them eventually, and mostly by ourselves. The Lend-Lease act was helping England but without direct help from the U.S., it wouldn't be enough. The only way Nazi Germany could be defeated was with an expansion of the war (sounds silly, doesn't it?).

Roosevelt did not want to declare war on the Axis without direct provocation, and the "surprise" attack by Japan provided that. The sneak attack changed America's perception of the war overnight and recruitment offices were flooded the next day and continued on.

But I also want to be clear in that I believe that no one in the U.S. military or Roosevelt himself could have possibly foreseen the devastation that that attack on Pearl delivered. The only thing "surprise" about the Dec 7th attack was the brilliance planning and execution of it.

John
Wolcott, CT

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <e425680b-5b5c-4582...@googlegroups.com>,
ohg...@gmail.com says...

>
>
> Roosevelt did not want to declare war on the Axis without direct provocation, and the "surprise" attack by Japan provided that. The sneak attack changed America's perception of the war overnight and recruitment offices were flooded the next day and continued on.
>
> But I also want to be clear in that I believe that no one in the U.S. military or Roosevelt himself could have possibly foreseen the devastation that that attack on Pearl delivered. The only thing "surprise" about the Dec 7th attack was the brilliance planning and execution of it.
>
> John
> Wolcott, CT

While we lost a lot of good men, the ships that were sank and dammaged
and the aircraft were a bunch of left over old junk. The main ships
(aircraft carriers) were not there at the time. I believe that was a
setup just to get Japan to attack ,but not suffer too much of a loss to
the US.

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per ohg...@gmail.com:

>
>However: I do believe that Roosevelt and the U.S. military knew an attack was imminent.

This is sort of tangential, but when I was stationed in Hawaii I worked
the 4-to-midnight shift and used to hitchhike into Waikiki every morning
during summer surf season.

Got a few very interesting rides - and one of them was an old guy who
claimed to be operating the radar up by Wheeler AFB the day of the
attack.

His story was something to the effect of "This radar stuff was new to
everybody and we were considered to be sort of on the fringe..... but we
saw the attack planes coming on the radar, tried to alert the higher
ups, but did not get anywhere."

I cannot recall whether the higher-ups just didn't believe them or
whether they attributed the sighting to some expected flight of aircraft
approaching from the mainland.... but there's not doubt in my mind that
the old guy was telling it like he experienced it.
--
Pete Cresswell

[pf...@aol.com]

On Thursday, October 6, 2016 at 2:32:03 PM UTC-4, ohg...@gmail.com wrote:

> I want to preface what I'm about to say in that I believe most conspiracy theorists are effing insane..
>
> However: I do believe that Roosevelt and the U.S. military knew an attack was imminent. Roosevelt was elected on a non-intervention platform that was extremely popular at that time, particularly since WWI was still in recent memory. The anti-war movement in America was quite large and vocal. By the time 1941 rolled around, it was clear that Nazi Germany would likely defeat England and we'd be fighting them eventually, and mostly by ourselves. The Lend-Lease act was helping England but without direct help from the U.S., it wouldn't be enough. The only way Nazi Germany could be defeated was with an expansion of the war (sounds silly, doesn't it?).
>
> Roosevelt did not want to declare war on the Axis without direct provocation, and the "surprise" attack by Japan provided that. The sneak attack changed America's perception of the war overnight and recruitment offices were flooded the next day and continued on.
>
> But I also want to be clear in that I believe that no one in the U.S. military or Roosevelt himself could have possibly foreseen the devastation that that attack on Pearl delivered. The only thing "surprise" about the Dec 7th attack was the brilliance planning and execution of it.
>
> John
> Wolcott, CT

Agreed on most of this. That Japan attacked Pearl may not have been have been a complete surprise. I expect that the war department was more focused on the Philippines than Pearl. I expect that some suspected a possible attack on the West Coast, or Pearl, but neither so large nor with so much of the Japanese fleet.

At the same time, the Japanese high command recognized that if the US was aroused *and* at full strength from the very beginning, their chances were nil and the devastation to the home Island would have started much earlier. A knock-out blow was their only chance - and one that did not risk the fleet was equally at issue.

What is equally remarkable is how small a role Battleships actually played in the Pacific war. Carriers did the grunt work, submarines did fleet and commerce harassment ((The Japanese lost 1,178 Merchant Ships sunk for a tonnage total of 5,053,491 tons. The Naval losses were 214 ships and submarines totaling 577,626 tons. A staggering five million, six hundred thirty one thousand, one hundred seventeen tons, (5,631,117 tons), 1,392 ships. All to US submarines)) Not until late in the war were there enough large surface vessels to provide invasion/landing support, and by then the Japanese fleet was either destroyed or bottled up in the home islands.

Shadows of things to come. Th

[Benderthe.evilrobot]

"Ralph Mowery" <rmower...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.326068cc2...@news.east.earthlink.net...

The historical evidence tells me there was a fair bit of fuckwittery in the
top brass.

American codebreakers were more or less keeping up with the Jap codes - so
they should've known the shit was about to hit the fan.

All the airfield fighters were lined up in a neat row for fear of sabotage
near the tree line.

They ignored warnings from British Intelligence about suspicious Jap troop
movements.

The footsloggers working the radar set did their job and reported the
incoming - they were told; "don't worry about it".

Some historians claim that all the ammo was locked away - the officer with
the key couldn't be found and they had to smash the door in - getting
strafed and frantically running around handing out ammo clips so a few
people could shoot back.

How they weren't prepared for an air raid is one of the great
mystries..................................

[Benderthe.evilrobot]

"(PeteCresswell)" <x...@y.Invalid> wrote in message
news:ie7dvbpvjjvq6bco7...@4ax.com...

A flight of B17s was due, but I think the "incoming" reported by the radar
operators was from the wrong direction.

The base was "on alert" - but didn't do much about
it.............................

[jurb...@gmail.com]

>"I want to preface what I'm about to say in that I believe >most conspiracy theorists are effing insane.. "

Well, since I am a housefly to that guy there is no reason to tell him this.

The excuse they give is there was some sort of "shipment" coming in and they thought that was it so they did not respond when they saw them on the RADAR.

Of course some accounts say the RADAR was removed for some unexplained reason but not being a true conspiracy theorist I am not so sure I believe that one. My Uncle was in the AF and worked on them and would tell you that they are not easy to remove. So can common sense.

So now the story changed to they were expecting a shipment.

A shipment of what from a country the US was antagonizing with blockades and whatever, starving their population, preventing food and medical supplies from getting in, just what the fuck do you think they would be shipping to the US ?

And I'll have you know, I had a hard time even considering that FDR knew and purposely allowed Pearl Harbor to happen until they changed their story. When they started that those planes were detected and expected they lost me. We were trying to kill Japan, NOTHING was expected from them, except an attack.

I bet Mr. Housefly thinks the Tuskeegee experiments never happened. The government has been honest and forthright with all their dealings of course. Just ask Snowden or Assange.

I'll also have you know that I was a criminal when I was younger and I did not get caught because I am smart enough to know what evidence is and what is not. They had me in a room trying to get me to sign a paper. Let me tell all the sheeple out there, any time the government wants you to sign a paper, that means they want something they don't have for example, authority.

And a housefly, if it could talk could tell more truth than the lamestream media.

Anyway, I never bought into this FDR knew shit until they changed their story. now I consider it a possibility.

Do y'all know what considering it a possibility rather than putting forth a possible theory means ? Nobody knows science anymore ?

People who summarily dismiss any possibilities other than the "truth" Uncle Sam gives you are of no use to me, or society. They should be eliminated along with the criminal government they support so dearly.

[pf...@aol.com]

On Friday, October 7, 2016 at 12:12:50 PM UTC-4, jurb...@gmail.com wrote:

> Well, since I am a housefly to that guy there is no reason to tell him this.

Actually, I had to apologize to the insect variety to even suggest you had achieved that humble status.

And, as it happens, nothing you have written before or since suggests that the characterization is in any way inaccurate.

[jurb...@gmail.com]

Flick me with your tail then sheep.

[Roger Blake]

On 2016-10-05, Chuck <ch...@mydeja.net> wrote:
> I have never seen alkaline AAA batteries of any brand where some
> didn't leak. As far as AA ones go, Kirkland and the AA that Dollar
> General used to have manufactured in Indonesia seemed to leak the
> least.

I get very good service by sticking with major brands like Toceba,
Dinacell, and Sorny, available at a discount at local flea markets.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Blake (Posts from Google Groups killfiled due to excess spam.)

NSA sedition and treason -- http://www.DeathToNSAthugs.com
Don't talk to cops! -- http://www.DontTalkToCops.com
Badges don't grant extra rights -- http://www.CopBlock.org
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

[ohg...@gmail.com]

Sounds like the knock-off brands of TV Homer Simpson was shopping for, including Magnetbox and Panaphonics.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sat, 8 Oct 2016 22:50:39 -0000 (UTC), Roger Blake
<rogb...@iname.invalid> wrote:

>On 2016-10-05, Chuck <ch...@mydeja.net> wrote:
>> I have never seen alkaline AAA batteries of any brand where some
>> didn't leak. As far as AA ones go, Kirkland and the AA that Dollar
>> General used to have manufactured in Indonesia seemed to leak the
>> least.
>
>I get very good service by sticking with major brands like Toceba,
>Dinacell, and Sorny, available at a discount at local flea markets.

I have the incurable habit of mangling company and product brand
names. DuraSmell, NeverReady, SoniPanic, Pray-o-Vac, Power-on-sick,
YuGuessAh, Farta, AlteredState, Exhide, etc[1].


[1] Translation: Duracell, Eveready, Panasonic, Ray-o-Vac, Power
Sonic, Yuasa, Varta, All State, Exide.