Do they still sell multi-part electrolytic capacitors?

[olds...@tubes.com]

I want to re-cap an old tube type shortwave radio. I dont mind using
plastic coated caps to replace the old paper-wax ones in the circuit.
(Meaning the smallish ones, such as .05 .02 .001, etc.)

However, it seems that no one sells the multi-part electrolytic
capacitors anymore. Particularly the ones on aluminum containers that
were mounted on the chassis. Those used to be very common on all old
TVs, radios, and other stuff. Normally, they came with 2, 3, or 4, caps
inside one container. (I never saw more than 4). Something like 50mf
450v 30mf 300v 10mf 150v was common. And not only the aluminum chassis
mounted ones, but many of the old (American Five) sets (5 tubes) had a
wax coated multi-part electrolytic capacitor, which went below the
chassis and was mounted by a strap around the cap body, and had a black
wire (GND), and a different color wire for each internal cap.

I like to restore this stuff to look original, as well as having to
consider that some of these devices dont have much spare space under the
chassis, to add individual caps.

I have checked both real stores and online vendors and no one seems to
sell these multi-part electrolytic capacitors anymore. Yes, I did run
across a few "OLD STOCK" caps, but I would assume that they deteriorate
almost as much as those inside a circuit, from aging. So, I'll avoid
them.

Does anyone know of any source for the multi-part electrolytic
capacitors which are still made to fit these vintage tube devices?

One other thing. I am not finding any 50-50 or 60-40 lead tin rosin core
solder anymore. At least not in the stores. I do not plan to serve
anyone dinner on the underside of a chassis, so I'm not worried about
getting lead poisoning. But apparently the government must think we eat
off of our electronics and have banned the old lead based solder.

Since I will be removing old caps, soldered with lead-tin solder,
shouldn't I be using lead-tin solder to replace the parts? Or will the
new solder (whatever it's made of), mix properly with the old lead based
stuff? (I dont want to create some sort of dialectric corrosion issues).
[Even with a desoldering bulb and wicking, not 100% of the lead is ever
removed]. Not to mention that I have heard that some (or all) of these
new solders require a lot more heat, which can damage the components
while soldering.

I have not worked on tube equipment in years, and I am looking forward
to this project. But things sure have changed since the time I played
around with these radios years ago (1960s - 70s). I gave up my
electronics hobby when semiconductors took over, because they are just
not as much fun to work on and too difficult to repair. Maybe working on
some tube equipment will make me feel young again. :)

[Dave Platt]

In article <02is8c9u88l40h63s...@4ax.com>,

<olds...@tubes.com> wrote:

>I want to re-cap an old tube type shortwave radio. I dont mind using
>plastic coated caps to replace the old paper-wax ones in the circuit.
>(Meaning the smallish ones, such as .05 .02 .001, etc.)
>
>However, it seems that no one sells the multi-part electrolytic
>capacitors anymore. Particularly the ones on aluminum containers that
>were mounted on the chassis. Those used to be very common on all old
>TVs, radios, and other stuff. Normally, they came with 2, 3, or 4, caps
>inside one container. (I never saw more than 4). Something like 50mf
>450v 30mf 300v 10mf 150v was common. And not only the aluminum chassis
>mounted ones, but many of the old (American Five) sets (5 tubes) had a
>wax coated multi-part electrolytic capacitor, which went below the
>chassis and was mounted by a strap around the cap body, and had a black
>wire (GND), and a different color wire for each internal cap.
>
>I like to restore this stuff to look original, as well as having to
>consider that some of these devices dont have much spare space under the
>chassis, to add individual caps.

What a lot of people in your situation do, these days, is temporarily
remove the old cap-can, carefully gut it, and install several smaller
modern capacitors inside the shell, connecting them to the appropriate
lugs on the bottom terminal disc. Using modern caps, and a bit of
sleeving on the leads, it's usually possible to fit the necessary
individual parts into the shell.

You can then reinstall the Wolves In Cheap Clothing capacitor-set
in its original location. Cosmetically it will look just like the
original; electrically it will probably be quite a bit superior to
the original.

You might be able to do the same thing with the wax-coated
multicap... or, if its case is already "gone bad" you can probably
make a reasonable look-alike using a cardboard sleeve over a set of
modern caps, and (if you insist on original appearance) dip it in wax
or varnish.

[Phil Allison]

olds...@tubes.com wrote:
>
>
> However, it seems that no one sells the multi-part electrolytic
> capacitors anymore. Particularly the ones on aluminum containers that
> were mounted on the chassis. Those used to be very common on all old
> TVs, radios, and other stuff. Normally, they came with 2, 3, or 4, caps
> inside one container. (I never saw more than 4).
>

** Not made anymore by anyone.

EXCEPT for some double types with brands like F&T, ARS and K&D.

LCR used to make them too but when out of business about 10 years ago.

You will see them all on eBay.


FYI

I have come across new looking triple types that were sold for use in old Fender amps:

https://www.talkbass.com/attachments/cap_can-jpg.985203/

Don't buy them, they are 50+ year old caps that are all faulty.



.... Phil

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <02is8c9u88l40h63s...@4ax.com>,
olds...@tubes.com says...

Look here for the capacitors you want.

https://hayseedhamfest.com/

YOu should be able to find the 60/40 solder from places in the US.If in
anoter country, I don't know.

Ebay is full of the 60/40 and 63/37 solder.

Mouser.com has some at about $45 per pound spool

The newer stuff will mix ok with the old for the tube size equipment.
Just takes more heat to melt the newer stuff. I don't use the lead free
on anything. No work for pay,as I am just doing electronic work for
myself.

[Dave M]

Those multi-section capacitors are quickly becoming extinct. There are a
few vendors that still cater to those who resotore antique electronics.
Here are a few that I have used in the past.
https://hayseedhamfest.com/
http://www.justradios.com/
https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/capacitors
https://vacuumtubesinc.com/
http://store.triodestore.com/
http://www.oldradioparts.com/
http://www.grillecloth.com/other/parts.php

There are probably more that I haven't seen or heard of. There have been
several sites that have shut down, likely because of the owners' health or
lack of buisiness. There used to be a guy online who actually rebuilt the
old multi-section capacitors. He opened the aluminum case, removed the old
capacitor guts and replaced the sections with new, individual capacitors and
resealed the case. He did a pretty good job; I used his service a couple
of times, but his health caused him to close the business.
you're correct about the "old stock" parts. the electrolytics will have to
be reformed before putting them to work in a real circuit. If they're not
too far gone, reforming will get a lot of life out of them. If you have no
other choice, you have a good chance of bringing them back to life.

I use the old 63/37 tin/lead solder. Not cheap any more, but still
available. No reason to go lead-free in the old equipment.
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/browse/Lead-Alloy/0000001207
http://www.allelectronics.com/category/570/solder-accessories/1.html
http://www.skycraftsurplus.com/search.aspx?find=solder
http://www.mpja.com/Solder-Accessories/products/348/

Good luck in your hobby. Not many of us old tube guys around any more.

Cheers,
Dave M

[Chris Jones]

On 30/01/2017 07:32, olds...@tubes.com wrote:
> One other thing. I am not finding any 50-50 or 60-40 lead tin rosin core
> solder anymore. At least not in the stores. I do not plan to serve
> anyone dinner on the underside of a chassis, so I'm not worried about
> getting lead poisoning. But apparently the government must think we eat
> off of our electronics and have banned the old lead based solder.
>
> Since I will be removing old caps, soldered with lead-tin solder,
> shouldn't I be using lead-tin solder to replace the parts? Or will the
> new solder (whatever it's made of), mix properly with the old lead based
> stuff? (I dont want to create some sort of dialectric corrosion issues).
> [Even with a desoldering bulb and wicking, not 100% of the lead is ever
> removed]. Not to mention that I have heard that some (or all) of these
> new solders require a lot more heat, which can damage the components
> while soldering.

You can still buy leaded solder, even in Europe where it is not allowed
in new electronics that is sold, but can still legally be used to repair
things that were built before 2006. You can also use it to make new
things in Europe if you do not "place them on the market".

The solder with 60% lead is not even very nice to use, because it spends
a lot of time in a "mushy" state as it is cooling. I think they only
used 60% lead in old appliances because lead is cheaper than tin. The
eutectic alloy with 37% lead is much better because it goes from fully
liquid to being fully solid over a small range of temperature, but is
slightly more expensive due to the higher price of tin.

Some of the lead-free solders are actually not bad to use, for example
96SC alloy from Multicore. The melting point is a bit higher than
tin-lead eutectic but probably not much different from the 60% lead
alloy that you wanted. The high melting point would only really be a
problem if you are desoldering components from plated-through holes in a
multilayer board with several ground planes buried within it, and that
sounds unlikely for your vintage electronics. The only problem that I
have with the 96SC alloy is that it is expensive, perhaps partly due to
the 3.8% silver content.

The area around the wet sponge used for cleaning the soldering iron
usually gets covered in tiny solder particles and dust, that get on the
carpet etc. When soldering at home the main risk is probably if you have
a young child in your family of the age where they crawl on the floor
eating dirt, and they eat some lead dust. A blood concentration of lead
that is increased by 50 parts per billion is correlated with an IQ that
is 10 to 20 points lower. If you do the calculations, 50 parts per
billion is not much.
http://oehha.ca.gov/media/goodmangilmanlead.pdf
If you are working on old equipment then regardless of whether you use
leaded solder wire or not, the solder droplets that end up on your
sponge and on the bench around it will contain lead, so it is best to
wipe it up carefully and keep it out of living areas of your house.

[N_Cook]

Research the term "restuffing", I've done it a few times.
Modern caps tend to be smaller volume and if you can find the right
aspect ratio, can get 2 or 3 in a recycled can. Add insulation between
the caps, removing the original contents can be messy and you might have
to go for axial type caps and somtimes the new contents might protrude
under the can

[pf...@aol.com]

On Sunday, January 29, 2017 at 9:41:59 PM UTC-5, Phil Allison wrote:

> olds...@tubes.com wrote:
> >

>
> ** Not made anymore by anyone.

Most of the "popular" types of multi-section caps are still made for specific purposes.

http://www.tubes4hifi.com/ST70.htm about halfway down the page.

This is only one (1) example of such sources. There are a great many similar sources. I have seen such dedicated to brands like Zenith and Hallicrafters in the radio end of the hobby - and many more dedicated to the likes of McIntosh, Dynaco, Eico, Marantz and others. The downside is that they are NOT cheap, typically tens of multiples of the cost of individual caps.

That being written, NOS caps are as suspect as the one in your radio. Restuffing works nicely, is inexpensive and as you become more skilled at it, will be invisible as well as far less costly.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

[Phil Allison]

pf...@aol.com wrote:

>
> Phil Allison wrote:
>
> >
> > ** Not made anymore by anyone.
>
> Most of the "popular" types of multi-section caps are still made for specific purposes.
>
> http://www.tubes4hifi.com/ST70.htm about halfway down the page.
>

** The rest of my post you fucking SNIPPED details exactly that brand of electro cap - complete with a very clear pic.

And it points out the suppliers are *criminal fraudsters*.

FFS, you retarded fucking asshole - READ what is fucking posted ~!!~!!

>
> Peter Wieck
> Melrose Park, PA
>
>

** Must be right next fucking La La Land.

Piss the fuck off you senile, useless fucking retard.

And I mean that most sincere.




.... Phil

[pf...@aol.com]

You need to take a Chill Pill.

VTA & Bob Latino have been around for many years, stand behind their products and sell good stuff. The other dedicated suppliers are also of long and good standing including a few that I have meet personally and actually observed and tested their products.

Point being that multi-section caps are still in production, albeit limited to mostly the highest-volume values and types, or for the most expensive (and popular) equipment. But, for all that, still in production.

It must be very easy from a cave in Australia to spit out invective supported by anecdotes of doubtful veracity - if even that much. Were you more available, I am fairly sure that some of your fans would have at the very least adjusted your attitude, if not cleaned your proverbial clock for you. I guess you are that 3-year old - if she can't see it, it does not exist.

https://www.die-wuestens.de/dindex.htm?/k8.htm

Another one.

[Phil Allison]

pf...@aol.com wrote:

> You need to take a Chill Pill.
>

** You nee a fucking bullet in the head.

> VTA & Bob Latino have been around for many years,

* So fucking, stinking what ???

The "CE Manufacturing" brand electros on that page are a criminal FRAUD.

Bob Latino is profiting from the SCAM, so is just as bad as them.

I have seen them personal,y so I fucking know.

YOU FUCKING HAVE NOT !!!!

> Point being that multi-section caps are still in production,

** And I clearly pointed out the very few, dual ones that *really were*.

But you snipped them out of sight too, you stupid, fucking senile ASSHOLE.



>
> It must be very easy from a cave in Australia ...
>


** What shit hole do you live in fucked, a septic tank ?



FYI to all:


The Peter Wieck troll is one of the worst, lying nut cases seen on usenet over the last 15 to 20 years - probably longer.

The retard has no ide how retarded he is so it might seem cruel to abuse him, I know.

But how the hell else do you shut dangerous FUCKING IDIOTS like him up ???




.... Phil

[pf...@aol.com]

Coming from you, this makes me quietly proud! Yet, as it happens, I do feel sorry for you as, clearly, your meds are failing again.

[Ken Layton]

Yes, Antique Electronic Supply still makes fresh stock "twist prong" can style (a.k.a. Mallory "FP" type).

https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/capacitors?filters=Type%3DMulti-Section%20/%20Can%20Type

They also make the multi-section "under-the-chassis" (the ones that look like a giant firecracker) types:

https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/capacitors?filters=Type%3DMulti-Section%20/%20Firecracker

This guy also sells new twist prong cans:

https://hayseedhamfest.com/

[pf...@aol.com]

Ken:

I can thing of half-a-dozen makers off-hand still active. I linked only the most broadly based with whom I have had direct experience. I guess these vendors are not available in to the hinterlands.

Dealing with Phil is much like nailing Jello - a not very rewarding endeavor.

But, while we are at it - and refuting Phil's "50-year old" crap:

https://www.cedist.com/products/capacitors?filters=Type%3DMulti-Section%20/%20Can%20Type

https://www.die-wuestens.de/dindex.htm?/k8.htm

http://www.jj-electronic.com/en/capacitors

These are only the most obvious with an international presence. I know of two cottage industry makers who do perhaps 30 or 40 per year as-needed for their customers. they want the old can as "trade", so I expect they actually restuff - but the results are visibly indistinguishable 'from new' right down to stamped cardboard covers - if that was OEM - but with their brand in place.

[Ken Layton]

I've done the "re-stuffing" thing myself a few times. It's a hassle and a couple of times the new capacitors I put into the can failed within a week (exploded inside the can). So I had to take them all apart again. Found out the replacement caps were counterfeits! Some were Jacques Ebert and some were Nichicon. All were purchased from my local electronics parts supplier.

[pf...@aol.com]

On Monday, January 30, 2017 at 1:54:28 PM UTC-5, Ken Layton wrote:
> I've done the "re-stuffing" thing myself a few times. It's a hassle and a couple of times the new capacitors I put into the can failed within a week (exploded inside the can). So I had to take them all apart again. Found out the replacement caps were counterfeits! Some were Jacques Ebert and some were Nichicon. All were purchased from my local electronics parts supplier.

THAT is a serious and increasing problem. Caps in general, and electrolytics specifically, have reached the point of diminishing returns for manufacturers as most buyers simply don't care what they are getting. So the OEM manufacturer with a conscience is also competing with the Chinese and Indian back-alley operations.

I try to purchase from legitimate suppliers such as Mouser or Newark and I try to purchase 105C. rated caps for those 'stuffing' and 'tube-audio' purposes where temperatures are significant. For the hobbyist, the relative cost of parts in onesie/twosie is insignificant. For a manufacturer purchasing in the thousands, it might be. If I pay $5 for a cap vs. $0.99, it is often worth it to get the right part for the job and no 'go-back-later' crap.

I have the same attitude towards tools.

https://www.amazon.com/Channellock-349-Premium-Wiremaster-Linesman/dp/B00004SBD5

http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/tools/tool-storage/tool-kits-sets/9-inch-linesman-pliers?infoParam.campaignId=T9F&gclid=Cj0KEQiA5bvEBRCM6vypnc7QgMkBEiQAUZftQFhb4CxGBULGj1Y3woE-4BybtLSl12XcNv9npUFrZWsaAnMo8P8HAQ

Channellock.

[ohg...@gmail.com]

On Monday, January 30, 2017 at 2:05:05 PM UTC-5, pf...@aol.com wrote:
> On Monday, January 30, 2017 at 1:54:28 PM UTC-5, Ken Layton wrote:
> > I've done the "re-stuffing" thing myself a few times. It's a hassle and a couple of times the new capacitors I put into the can failed within a week (exploded inside the can). So I had to take them all apart again. Found out the replacement caps were counterfeits! Some were Jacques Ebert and some were Nichicon. All were purchased from my local electronics parts supplier.
>
> THAT is a serious and increasing problem. Caps in general, and electrolytics specifically, have reached the point of diminishing returns for manufacturers as most buyers simply don't care what they are getting. So the OEM manufacturer with a conscience is also competing with the Chinese and Indian back-alley operations.

I generally only buy Panasonic (like the EE or FR) from DigiKey. I'm sure Mouser and others supply them. I may be the only person on the planet who thinks Panasonic electros are the best in the world but that's what I buy for tough applications. Never had a problem and never saw one fail even after many years.

[Phil Allison]

Ken Layton wrote:
>
> Yes, Antique Electronic Supply still makes fresh stock "twist prong"
> can style (a.k.a. Mallory "FP" type).
>

** They do not make any such thing.

The Mallory FP types are USA made examples from 50+ years ago - with a shiny label applied. I have seen them with all sections open circuit.

I pulled one apart and found the internals totally dried out - as one would expect.

You have not seen one at all.


.... Phil

[Phil Allison]

pf...@aol.com wrote:

>
> Dealing with Phil is much like nailing Jello
>

** Dealing with retarded idiots make me wanna puke.

>
> But, while we are at it - and refuting Phil's "50-year old" crap:
>
> https://www.cedist.com/products/capacitors?filters=Type%3DMulti-Section%20/%20Can%20Type

** How the hell does that *refute* anything ?

It doesn't.



.... Phil

[Ron D.]

This https://antiqueradio.org/recap.htm page should be useful. The perfectionists either stuff them or use the old ones for show and hide the new ones. Almost the same effect. I thin, I remember where the cap is cut cleanly and then essentially the lid taped on.

[olds...@tubes.com]

Could this be caused by a heat buildup inside the can?
At least the can protected you when they exploded though.

I dont know why it is, that the old caps used in tube equipment seemed
to last many years, sometimes 50 years or more, but today they fail in
only a few years. Seems a lot of computer boards have this problem
regularly. I would think that we would have better materials to make
them these days, than when they were just made from tin foil, paper and
wax, but it seems those old ones were far better.

[olds...@tubes.com]

On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 06:48:52 -0800 (PST), "pf...@aol.com" <pf...@aol.com>
wrote:

>Coming from you, this makes me quietly proud! Yet, as it happens, I do feel sorry for you as, clearly, your meds are failing again.
>
>Peter Wieck
>Melrose Park, PA

Who the heck are you talking to?

[pf...@aol.com]

On Tuesday, January 31, 2017 at 1:39:31 AM UTC-5, olds...@tubes.com wrote:

>
> Who the heck are you talking to?

That would be Mr. Allison, our resident Tourette's Syndrome tech. He goes in fits and starts, with sometimes months of civility and good advice, punctuated with periods of full blown psychosis.

And, when both wrong *and* off his meds, he advocates all kinds of colorful fates for his momentary enemies.

It is a very good thing he is where he is - I doubt he would survive in an environment where he would be held accountable for his ravings.

[Phil Allison]

pf...@aol.com wrote:



FYI to all:

The Peter Wieck troll is one of the worst, lying nut cases seen on usenet over the last 15 to 20 years - probably longer.

The retard has no idee how retarded he is so it might seem cruel to abuse him, I know.

But how the hell else do you shut CRIMINAL FUCKING IDIOTS like him up ???




.... Phil

[ohg...@gmail.com]

Phil, remember when the doctor said you have to *keep* taking those medications for the rest of your life? That stopping them would make you revert to the obnoxious person that no one like and everyone avoids? That when you do take them you can be, if nothing else, civil even to whom with which you disagree?

Please get back on your medications. The medicated Phil is the one we actually like.

[Ken Layton]

I wasn't saying those were genuine Mallory FP capacitors being sold at Antique Electronics. Some people know the twist prong can style capacitor by the FP designation as an example. Cornell (CDE) and Sprague also produced twist prong can capacitors back in the day.

[pf...@aol.com]

On Wednesday, February 1, 2017 at 12:18:30 PM UTC-5, Ken Layton wrote:


> I wasn't saying those were genuine Mallory FP capacitors being sold at Antique Electronics. Some people know the twist prong can style capacitor by the FP designation as an example. Cornell (CDE) and Sprague also produced twist prong can capacitors back in the day.

Ken:

Do you understand the concept of "nailing Jell-O"? Nobody here suggested or implied that Mallory or any of the "old names" were still in the business of making caps, multi-section caps, or even storm doors and windows. What you and I were (an are) suggesting is that multi-section caps are still in production from various suppliers around the world and still readily available to anyone with the means and the will to get them.

If one goes to some of these websites and reads carefully, there will be many disclaimers on the NOS stuff, and very specific references on the current-production stuff. Nowhere do any of the makers I linked, again suggest or imply that what they are selling is "fresh" if NOS, or NOS if fresh. CE does make much of using vintage machinery, but to make *NEW* capacitors.

Phil is a pimple on the soft underbelly of this hobby. That he has not been lanced-with-prejudice has more to do with his location and pure blind luck. For all that, he is a knowledgeable tech with some good skills. However, if it is not in his world, or does not conform to his idea of the universe, it is suspect and to be rejected. And any person with the temerity to stand up to him - again is in for some very colorful invective and suggestions of awful fates to come. Consider the hognose snake for similar behavior.

Once upon a time, he railed against CFL Lamps with all sorts of invective and all sorts of (bad) data and anecdotal referrals.

Not much later, he railed against someone who complained about them with equally accurate information.

Once upon a time he railed against the entire concept of an isolation transformer. Then.... you get the picture.

As he experiences his various epiphanies, he becomes equally righteous,but on the other side. What he does not do is learn from such.

[Phil Allison]

Ken Layton wrote:
> > Ken Layton wrote:
> > >
> > > Yes, Antique Electronic Supply still makes fresh stock "twist prong"
> > > can style (a.k.a. Mallory "FP" type).
> > >
> >
> > ** They do not make any such thing.
> >
> > The Mallory FP types are USA made examples from 50+ years ago - with a shiny label applied. I have seen them with all sections open circuit.
> >
> > I pulled one apart and found the internals totally dried out - as one would expect.
> >
> > You have not seen one at all.
> >
> >
> > .... Phil
>
> I wasn't saying those were genuine Mallory FP capacitors being
> sold at Antique Electronics.
>

** You have no clue about what you are saying.

Piss off.


..... Phil

[Phil Allison]

pf...@aol.com wrote:

>
> Nowhere do any of the makers I linked, again suggest or imply that
> what they are selling is "fresh" if NOS, or NOS if fresh. CE does
> make much of using vintage machinery, but to make *NEW* capacitors.
>

** But in fact the CE brand caps are 50+ years old, dried out and worthless.

> Once upon a time, he railed against CFL Lamps with all sorts of invective
> and all sorts of (bad) data and anecdotal referrals.
>

** What I posted about CFLs was 100% correct.

> Once upon a time he railed against the entire concept of an isolation
> transformer.
>

** What I posted was 100% correct but incomprehensible to the Wieck retard.


Be aware:

Wieck is a mental retard plus incorrigible LIAR and and criminal defamer.

He lives only to troll.

Lets hope that is not for much longer.



.... Phil

[pf...@aol.com]

On Wednesday, February 1, 2017 at 9:29:51 PM UTC-5, Phil Allison wrote:

> ** But in fact the CE brand caps are 50+ years old, dried out and worthless.

In the probably vain hope that there is still a few sane neurons firing in your agitated, fear-ridden brain - what do you derive from this?

https://www.cedist.com/products/capacitors?filters=Brand%3DCE%20Manufacturing

[ohg...@gmail.com]

Peter you seem like a good guy, but you're not paying attention to what's going on in the world.

A few years back Geraldo Rivera did a TV special where a hidden vault, chock full of old electronic components, was opened. They found many thousands of (strangely and coincidentally) the most popular canned capacitors that would be most in demand years later. All of these were thoroughly cleaned, buffed, and relabeled. Oddly, of the thousands that were sold dried up and inert, no one figured out the cans themselves were defective and were in fact just old dead stock, except Phil.

You can do better..

[pf...@aol.com]

Please Note The Interpolations.

On Thursday, February 2, 2017 at 10:15:14 AM UTC-5, ohg...@gmail.com wrote:

> A few years back Geraldo Rivera did a TV special where a hidden vault, chock full of old electronic components, was opened.

Funny thing - there is nothing on Google, Geraldo's Website, nor any other reference putting that gentleman together with "electronic(s)", "capacitor(s)", "condenser(s)" nor any other of several variations. True, I only did two searches. Please provide a link as the originator of this evidence.

They found many thousands of (strangely and coincidentally) the most popular canned capacitors that would be most in demand years later. All of these were thoroughly cleaned, buffed, and relabeled. Oddly, of the thousands that were sold dried up and inert, no one figured out the cans themselves were defective and were in fact just old dead stock, except Phil.

I am beginning to smell a rat (troll, at least). "...nobody figure out... except Phil." Sarcasm at its finest, given the reputation of those peddling these so-called 'defective' caps. Between AES, VTA and any of several other international vendors, were there the slightest smell of problems with these caps, they would drop them like plutonium.

> You can do better..

No, so far, you have no more than anecdotal evidence. If you are trolling, that is all you need. If you are actually trying to make a point in support of Phil - or anyone else - a bit more than vague statements supported by anecdotes of dubious veracity is required.

a) Al Capone purportedly had a vault.
b) Geraldo purportedly opened it.
c) There are lots-O-NOS caps out there being sold under various conditions and descriptions. Mostly right out in plain sight. But, of a certainty, it is vaguely and perhaps *just* possible that there are unscrupulous sellers out there selling all sorts of twaddle to the gullible.

In this case, a) + b) ≠ c).

[Phil Allison]

pf...@aol.com wrote:
>
> Phil Allison wrote:
>
> > ** But in fact the CE brand caps are 50+ years old, dried out and
> > worthless.
>
>
> In the probably vain hope that there is still a few sane neurons firing
>

** FFS, you moronic fucking asshole - until you see one of the CE
fakes yourself you have NO grounds to be claiming anything !!!!!!!


FYI:

The cap I opened up was labelled 4 x 20uF @ 475V.

https://www.cedist.com/products/capacitor-ce-mfg-475v-20202020-f-electrolytic

You can peel off the metallic label and see the original, stamped in markings and also a 4 digit date code, giving week and year.

The code on my example indicated manufacture in 1963.

The insides were green with corrosion and several aluminium connecting straps ware eaten right through. The core of the cap was dry as a bone.

A customer had built a clone of the Fender Princeton Reverb amp. He purchased the cap along with other parts including a stainless steel chassis from the USA.

The amp was delivered to me in May 2013 suffering from loud hum and motor boating - since none of the electros inside the can worked.

BTW:

Go fuck yourself.



.... Phil

[ohg...@gmail.com]

So Phil, does CE have a time machine that allows them to retrieve thousands of these same exact cans to fill orders? Maybe the cans age as they're transported through time?

Assuming you're not lying to cover your ass, did you consider that someone may have stuck the label on an old can and returned it to CE for credit? I can assure you that crap like that does happen.

I've been in the repair business for over 40 years and I've gotten "brand new" parts from reliable suppliers including OEMs that were clearly *not* new. These were either mistakenly returned for new credit or intentionally returned for nefarious reasons and ended up being restocked.

[Phil Allison]

ohg...@gmail.com wrote:

Phil Allison wrote:

>
>
> So Phil, does CE have a time machine that allows them to retrieve
> thousands of these same exact cans to fill orders?

** There are not thousands of orders.

>
> did you consider that
> someone may have stuck the label on an old can and returned it to CE for
> credit?

** No - that is absurd.

Old caps would have used solder lugs and bent support tags.

It's a common re-labelling scam, been going on for decades with all sorts of components including ICs, power transistors and vacuum tubes.

I bought some 22uF, 450V pigtail electros once from a local dealer that turned out to have well used 22uF, 400V radial types fitted inside the can. They looked wrong because there was black rubber at both ends of the can instead of just one end.

BTW go fuck yourself.


.... Phil

[amdx]

On 1/29/2017 2:32 PM, olds...@tubes.com wrote:
> I want to re-cap an old tube type shortwave radio. I dont mind using
> plastic coated caps to replace the old paper-wax ones in the circuit.
> (Meaning the smallish ones, such as .05 .02 .001, etc.)
>
> However, it seems that no one sells the multi-part electrolytic
> capacitors anymore. Particularly the ones on aluminum containers that
> were mounted on the chassis.

Why don't you check at,
> http://www.antiqueradios.com/forums/index.php
A forum full of oldtimers there with lots of experience replacing old caps.
Hey, and it has no bickering!

Mikek




---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

[pf...@aol.com]

On Friday, February 3, 2017 at 7:38:59 AM UTC-5, ohg...@gmail.com wrote
>>Stuff<<

Not to worry. Phil is reasoning from one single incident in 2013 (the Fender) to the general. My cat is grey, therefore all cats are grey (with apologies to Ben Franklin ('in the dark, all cats are grey').

Not only that, but as he did not actually purchase the offending item directly, he has no idea which bin it came from - NOS or New Stock. I can get shiny NOS caps all day at any of several local sources, all of them no better than they should be. And, if I represent them as such, I can sell them all day long to instrument amp people who have an entirely a different view of the species. I just sold a handful of very, very vintage "Black Cat" capacitors to an instrument amp neighbor for far too much $$ - he insisted - if I promised to sell him any others I might acquire as I go along.

In the unlikely event that I do purchase caps of unknown provenance, I do so face-to-face, and carry an ESR/Cap meter with me. That would be Kutztown, twice a year. Meaning - if one purchases caps from unreliable sources, one more-or-less deserves what one gets. As, the only reason to go to said unreliable sources would be "save" money. AES, VTA and those with actual reputations to support are not cheap, and do stand behind what they sell. Ah, well, perhaps Australia is the dumping ground for such.

[ohg...@gmail.com]

On Friday, February 3, 2017 at 8:06:57 AM UTC-5, Phil Allison wrote:

> ohg...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
> > So Phil, does CE have a time machine that allows them to retrieve
> > thousands of these same exact cans to fill orders?
>
>
> ** There are not thousands of orders.

You know this how? Perhaps the Russians hacked CE's site and passed the info to you.

> > did you consider that
> > someone may have stuck the label on an old can and returned it to CE for
> > credit?
>
>
> ** No - that is absurd.
>
> Old caps would have used solder lugs and bent support tags.

.... Phil

That's true, but you didn't have the opportunity to inspect it. Here, let me refresh your memory for you:

>>**A customer had *built* a clone of the Fender Princeton Reverb amp. He purchased the cap along with other parts including a stainless steel chassis from the USA. The amp was delivered to me in May 2013 suffering from loud hum and motor boating - since none of the electros inside the can worked.

Since the amp was delivered to you already built and suffering from hum and motor-boating, you did *not* see the capacitor's lugs or twist tabs before your customer installed it. Oops....

And for you last suggestion to me, let me just say that while it's physically impossible to accomplish, it's nice to see that if nothing else, you still have your warmth and charm at least.

[Phil Allison]

ohg...@gmail.com wrote:

> Phil Allison wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > So Phil, does CE have a time machine that allows them to retrieve
> > > thousands of these same exact cans to fill orders?
> >
> >
> > ** There are not thousands of orders.
>

> > > did you consider that
> > > someone may have stuck the label on an old can and returned it to CE for
> > > credit?
> >
> >
> > ** No - that is absurd.
> >
> > Old caps would have used solder lugs and bent support tags.
>
>

> That's true,


** So there is no way the idea can work.

The metallic label is not transferable without visible damage.

Go fuck yourself - idiot.



..... Phil

[Phil Allison]

Some fuckwit called Wieck wrote:


>
> Phil is reasoning from one single incident in 2013 (the Fender)
> to the general.

** The Fender is irrelevant, the CE cap was **exactly** as pictured in the advertising. A silver metallic label placed over a cap the was corroded out from old age.

>
> Not only that, but as he did not actually purchase the offending
> item directly, he has no idea which bin it came from - NOS or New Stock.

** There are no "old stock" ones from CE that look exactly like that ones in the advertising - you LYING PILE Of SHIT !!!

Get cancer & die you sick, lunatic old fart.



..... Phil

[ohg...@gmail.com]

Wait, you *tried* to remove that particular label back four years ago in anticipation of this discussion?

With a little care, labels are not difficult to cleanly remove in most cases.

[Phil Allison]

ohg...@gmail.com wrote:

Phil Allison wrote:
>

> >
> > ** So there is no way the idea can work.
> >
> > The metallic label is not transferable without visible damage.
> >
> > Go fuck yourself - idiot.
> >
> >
> >
> > ..... Phil
>
>
> Wait, you *tried* to remove that particular label back four years ago
>

** Read the **thread** you trolling, illiterate, fucking MORON !!!

OTOH, there's no pint - it's all way over a maggot infested, autistic brain like yours.

Go fuck your mother.




.... Phil

[pf...@aol.com]

On Saturday, February 4, 2017 at 12:49:32 AM UTC-5, Phil Allison wrote:
> Some fuckwit called Wieck wrote:
>
>
> >
> > Phil is reasoning from one single incident in 2013 (the Fender)
> > to the general.
>
> ** The Fender is irrelevant, the CE cap was **exactly** as pictured in the advertising. A silver metallic label placed over a cap the was corroded out from old age.
>
>
> >
> > Not only that, but as he did not actually purchase the offending
> > item directly, he has no idea which bin it came from - NOS or New Stock.
>
>
> ** There are no "old stock" ones from CE that look exactly like that ones in the advertising - you LYING PILE Of SHIT !!!
>
>

There are old-stock caps from Mallory and others that CE sells as OLD STOCK CAPS, complete with new shiny label. They sell them mostly to instrument-amp people who have no idea what a cap is supposed to do for the most part, and build legends around "Black Cat" and "Bumble-Bee" and other names, and actually will remove good caps to install old caps.

Likely exactly what happened with your Fender.

Again, reasoning from the specific to the general makes you the idiot. No matter how much invective you throw at the problem, you are still an idiot.

[Phil Allison]

pf...@aol.com wrote:

>
>
> >
> > ** There are no "old stock" ones from CE that look exactly like that ones in the advertising - you LYING PILE Of SHIT !!!
> >
> >
> There are old-stock caps from Mallory and others that CE sells as
> OLD STOCK CAPS, complete with new shiny label.
>

** But not like this one:

https://www.cedist.com/products/capacitor-ce-mfg-475v-20202020-f-electrolytic

This is EXACTLY the same as the one I opened up.


You are nothing but a vile, lying pile of shit - Wieck.

You a extremely autistic, have zero honesty and are completely FUCKED in the head.

Evil pigs like you need to die a horrible death.



.... Phil

[ohg...@gmail.com]

I did read the thread Phil, most of it at least. A lot of becomes murky in the presence of the filth you strew around here like your own private litter box. Hard to keep my concentration actually.

But if I've read this correctly, what you're saying is that after four years you remember exactly how the label came off the can? It's not possible that you, in a fit of an obnoxious vile, expletive laden rage, just ripped the label off in that triumphant "aha" moment? I know some might say that's just not sweet Phil's personality but it's still a remote possibility...

Most everyone else who reads this group and those in the many other forums you've polluted over the years with your keyboard defecation have seen you exposed for the infantile pill that you are. You are a coward who bullies behind the protection of the internet. You might actually garner a bit of respect if you acted the same way in front of a real person, but we all know that cowards don't do that.

[Michael A. Terrell]

Ralph Mowery wrote:
>
> You should be able to find the 60/40 solder from places in the US.If in
> another country, I don't know.
>
> Ebay is full of the 60/40 and 63/37 solder.
>
> Mouser.com has some at about $45 per pound spool
>
> The newer stuff will mix ok with the old for the tube size equipment.
> Just takes more heat to melt the newer stuff. I don't use the lead
> free on anything. No work for pay, as I am just doing electronic
> work for myself.

I bought three, one pound spools of Kester .031" 63/37 at a local
flea market last fall. I paid $10 for all three of them.

I also won a pair of half pound spools of Ersin Multicore on Ebay
for $15. They are .015", 63/37. Just keep your eyes open.

--
Never piss off an Engineer!

They don't get mad.

They don't get even.

They go for over unity! ;-)

[Michael Black]

On Wed, 15 Feb 2017, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

> Ralph Mowery wrote:
>>
>> You should be able to find the 60/40 solder from places in the US.If in
>> another country, I don't know.
>>
>> Ebay is full of the 60/40 and 63/37 solder.
>>
>> Mouser.com has some at about $45 per pound spool
>>
>> The newer stuff will mix ok with the old for the tube size equipment.
>> Just takes more heat to melt the newer stuff. I don't use the lead
>> free on anything. No work for pay, as I am just doing electronic
>> work for myself.
>
> I bought three, one pound spools of Kester .031" 63/37 at a local flea
> market last fall. I paid $10 for all three of them.
>
> I also won a pair of half pound spools of Ersin Multicore on Ebay for $15.
> They are .015", 63/37. Just keep your eyes open.
>

The closest I got to that was finding a small roll of quite thick solder
at a garage sale, but it wsa branded "IBM", so an element of novelty to
it.

Michael

[pf...@aol.com]

On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 at 12:51:12 PM UTC-5, Michael Terrell wrote:

> I bought three, one pound spools of Kester .031" 63/37 at a local
> flea market last fall. I paid $10 for all three of them.

That is about the way of it. I have one 63/37 at the bench, one in the travel kit and one spare.

After all this time, I will not use anything but true eutectic solder. I even keep a small amount of CU/AG/SN eutectic lead-free solder for very special applications such as repairing jewelry. Not cheap, but does the trick.

[Michael A. Terrell]

I wasn't even looking for solder when I found it. Someone I know at
'Markets of Marion' sells used DVDs. The spools of solder were sitting
on one of his tables, along with a genuine 'Camilus Electrician's
knife'. I bought the solder, and he gave me the knife because the finish
was bad. It took me 15 minutes to make it look right. :)