Re: What have you learned in your old age that you feel should be taught to high school students?

[knuttle]

On 12/28/2021 2:57 AM, rbowman wrote:

> You're right. I didn't even think at the understanding level.

That's where I'm leaning, which means the entire class can be taught inside
the classroom like most of the other classes are.

I would think there should be a chapter each on each "thing" kids need to
know about (perhaps homes, vehicles, measurements, debugging, PCs, etc.).

In each chapter I would think it could dive down into the "systems" involved
such as the cooling system for a car, or the plumbing system for a house or
the electrical system for a computer.

> My early experience involved repair usually. When the car overheats because the
> phenolic impeller in the water pump detached from the shaft you learn
> about cooling systems to say nothing of Chrysler's decision to use a
> plastic impeller.

Repair starts with debug.
Debug ends with isolation of the failed component.
But debug starts with understanding the systems & isolation of the failure.

Without understanding of the system, there's no repair possible unless we
teach the kids to just throw parts at the problem.

Admittedly, a _lot_ of cars are fixed by people throwing parts at them! :)

> Chrysler product also taught you not all threads a
> right handed.

My first Chrysler was a New Yorker which, as I recall, had reverse threaded
lug bolts on one side, but normally threaded lug bolts on the other.

Nobody told me this. After doing the one side, I wrenched off two or three
before I realized "something" was very wrong on the other side.

There were no "warning labels" in those days. :)

> I'd guess the average high school kid knows as much about how a car
> works as how their iPhone does. It's all magic.

This is a good observation, where we could add a systems approach to how
basic electronics work also (sci.electronics.repair).

[rbowman]

On 12/28/2021 10:06 AM, knuttle wrote:
> On 12/28/2021 2:57 AM, rbowman wrote:
>
>> You're right. I didn't even think at the understanding level.
>
> That's where I'm leaning, which means the entire class can be taught inside
> the classroom like most of the other classes are.
>
> I would think there should be a chapter each on each "thing" kids need to
> know about (perhaps homes, vehicles, measurements, debugging, PCs, etc.).
>
> In each chapter I would think it could dive down into the "systems"
> involved
> such as the cooling system for a car, or the plumbing system for a house or
> the electrical system for a computer.
>
>> My early experience involved repair usually. When the car overheats
>> because the phenolic impeller in the water pump detached from the
>> shaft you learn about cooling systems to say nothing of Chrysler's
>> decision to use a plastic impeller.
>
> Repair starts with debug.
> Debug ends with isolation of the failed component.
> But debug starts with understanding the systems & isolation of the failure.
>
> Without understanding of the system, there's no repair possible unless we
> teach the kids to just throw parts at the problem.
>
> Admittedly, a _lot_ of cars are fixed by people throwing parts at them! :)

Debugging is more complex. My first go around was with my '82 Firebird
which was early in the computer controlled game. It would run fine,
stumble at odd and inconvenient intervals, and then run fine. Carb
problem. but what, with the oxygen sensor, etc. Of course, running down
the tree the measurements were on the low side of the acceptable range.
I finally pulled the carb. There was a solenoid controlled valve to
control the mixture. The problem was what looked like a little piece of
neoprene that would randomly hold the needle open.

I didn't feel bad as the guy running the project was having problems
with his Pontiac and it was in and out of the shop as they tried to
debug it. His son was the service manager so they weren't screwing him
over.

Another friend bought a Cadillac around the same time that also turned
into a shop queen. He went to visit the car one day to find all the
mechanics standing around poking at the computer like it had fallen off
a passing UFO.

>> Chrysler product also taught you not all threads a right handed.
>
> My first Chrysler was a New Yorker which, as I recall, had reverse threaded
> lug bolts on one side, but normally threaded lug bolts on the other.
> Nobody told me this. After doing the one side, I wrenched off two or three
> before I realized "something" was very wrong on the other side.
>
> There were no "warning labels" in those days. :)

It stimulated the market for replacement studs. Most of them did have an
L stamped on the end but who looks at the end of the stud when changing
a tire?

>> I'd guess the average high school kid knows as much about how a car
>> works as how their iPhone does. It's all magic.
>
> This is a good observation, where we could add a systems approach to how
> basic electronics work also (sci.electronics.repair).

We have a new library that finally opened after a year delay for the
virus. It has a large and well-equipped 'maker space' that I'm hoping
attracts at least some kids. There are several 3D printers, laser
cutters, work stations, 3D scanners and so forth. I think there is a
selection of Arduinos and rPis with peripherals too. The library also
subscribes to Make magazine.

https://makezine.com/

There a media labs and so forth for the kids that swing that way. The
opportunities are all there and free except for nominal charges for the
3D printer materials.

The question is what per cent of the kids will make use of it. I don't
have high hopes. Like it always was the smart kids will have a field
day. The rest will be watching TikTok videos and could care less. Like
Shaw said when defining 'horticulture', you can lead a whore to culture
but you can't make her think.

[Peeler]

On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 12:28:58 -0700, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:

> Debugging is more complex. My first go around was

Oh, FUCK! The blabbermouth starts again...

<FLUSH the rest of the senile gossip's endless senile blather unread again>

--
Yet more absolutely idiotic senile blather by lowbrowwoman:
"I save my fries quota for one of the local food trucks that offers
poutine every now and then. If you're going for a coronary might as well
do it right."
MID: <ivdi4g...@mid.individual.net>

[AMuzi]

Ahem.
That was the sainted Dorothy Parker.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[rbowman]

I stand corrected. Shaw had some snappy quotes but that wasn't one of them.

"Discussing vaccination with a doctor is like discussing vegetarianism
with a butcher."

https://www.azquotes.com/author/13418-George_Bernard_Shaw

Apropos to some of the threads in this group...

[Peeler]

On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 21:50:02 -0700, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,

troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:

> I stand corrected.

Corrected ...but still blabbering in your bigmouthed manner!

--
Gossiping "lowbrowwoman" about herself:
"Usenet is my blog... I don't give a damn if anyone ever reads my posts
but they are useful in marshaling [sic] my thoughts."
MID: <iteioi...@mid.individual.net>

[knuttle]

On 12/28/2021 2:28 PM, rbowman wrote:

> Debugging is more complex.

Usually only one part fails, so all you need to do is debug to that.
But most people think debugging is harder than it really is, IMHO.

It's because they have the mentality of throwing parts at the problem.
Instead of the mentality that should be taught which is to debug it first.
a. Understand how the system works
b. Segregate the system into testable components
c. Isolate the one component that has failed

Replacing it is (usually - but not always) the easy part.

How many times have you seen someone ask on s.e.r how to fix a
non-functional microwave and someone invariably claims you should replace
the diode, without even explaining to that person how to debug if it's
actually that diode?

How many times have you seen someone ask on r.a.t how to fix an overheated
cooling system and someone claims you should replace the thermostat (without
even explaining to that person how to debug to see if it is the thermostat)?

How many times have you seen someone ask on a.h.r how to fix a non starting
electrical pump motor and someone tells him to replace the capacitor?

How many times have you seen someone ask how to fix a sputtering engine and
someone claims you should pour seafoam into it (without even debugging)?

How many times has someone said their car wouldn't start and someone else
immediately tells them to replace the battery or alternator (without debug)?

This almost complete and total lack of debug is pervasive everywhere.

While a _lot_ of things get fixed by "throwing parts" at them, I agree with
you that "debugging is more complex" than just throwing parts at a car.

A classic example of where people throw parts is when they don't understand
the system which is why debug starts with (a) understanding the system, and
debug ends with (c) isolating the bad part.

What I was taught in the fifties was the process of debug is three steps.
a. Understand
b. Segregate
c. Isolate

What I see people do instead is a single step (which might be three steps).
a. Replace
b. (If that didn't work) Replace (something else)
c. (If that still doesn't work) Replace (another part)

You see this all the time with ABS related debug where they replace each
wheel sensor or the ABS control modules or even brake components without
first isolating the problem to the failed component.

Rarely is more than one component failed, right?
That's a good question though to ask, philosophically speaking, on debug.

How often in your experience has the problem you're trying to fix been
caused by multiple failed components?

[knuttle]

On 12/28/2021 11:50 PM, rbowman wrote:

> "Discussing vaccination with a doctor is like discussing vegetarianism
> with a butcher."
> https://www.azquotes.com/author/13418-George_Bernard_Shaw
>
> Apropos to some of the threads in this group...

That's a good quote where the threads you speak of are filled with either
the rabit Democrats being completely ignorant of anything science related,
and at the same time the rabid Republicans being just as completely ignorant
that getting the highly modified genetic material injected into your arm
causes your cells to explode making the spike protein which your body treats
both as a "toxin" and an "antigen" - which is what the immune system
eventually (a few steps down in the process that they don't understand)
create short lived antibodies to (and other immune components, as the immune
system is freaking complex by all accounts).

Perhaps a simpler way to summarize the politicized science problem set is

Rabid Democrats: It's your body my choice
Rabid Republicans: It's my body my choice

Normal people: It's a difficult decision given the risk of death is almost
zero (it's 99.8% likely you won't die in the USA overall and 99.9998% likely
to survive if you're a child aged from 5 to 11 in the USA from October 2020
to October 2021 according to the CDC's own figures).

The science shows that most people (well more than half) don't even get any
symptoms even as almost all of those people who are immune to the disease
are seropositive (which is the case for _many_ immunities such as those to
the common cold or the flu). Some, paradoxically, aren't even seropositive
even as the virus itself has a relatively high human transmissibility.

However, enough of actual science.
Nobody seems to care about the science.

Certainly science isn't what the rabid {Democrats,Republicans} care about
though. They only care about the politics.

So far it seems _all_ the rabid {Republican,Democrats} are ignorant of the
science (quite a few, frankly, are rather stupid - which can't be cured).

The end result though is a politicized scientific experiment.
Rabid Democrat: I'm scared shitless of a disease so do what I tell you to!
Rabid Republican: I'm scared shitless of the government so I don't trust you!

[knuttle]

On 12/29/2021 2:12 PM, knuttle wrote:

> Normal people: It's a difficult decision given the risk of death is almost
> zero (it's 99.8% likely you won't die in the USA overall and 99.9998% likely
> to survive if you're a child aged from 5 to 11 in the USA from October 2020
> to October 2021 according to the CDC's own figures).

I want all the statements I make to be completely scientifically correct.
Particularly since rabid {Democrats,Republicans} don't care about science.

Hence I apologize that I accidentally added an extra unnecessary "9" where
the chance any one child has in the USA of not dying from Covid is 99.998%

a. Search term:
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=cdc+children+ages+5-11
b. First link:
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/planning/children.html
(The CDC says to vaccinate them.)
c. Second link:
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2021-11-2-3/03-Covid-Jefferson-508.pdf
(The CDC says kids have a 0.002% chance of dying from it.)

Obviously they don't care about the children per se.
Because the risk of Covid to chidlren is less than that of the flu.

What they care about is the children infecting the adults.

Even so, any one adult has a 99.8% chance of not dying from Covid.
However, even 0.2% of a big number is a lot of people overall.

For example, the risk to the United States is 0.2% of 350 million.
That's about 700,000 people (which includes the already very sick).

But for any one individual in the USA, the risk is clearly 0.2%.
Anyone claiming otherwise is simply ignoring the scientific facts.

[John]

knuttle <keith_...@sbcglobal.net> wrote

> On 12/29/2021 2:12 PM, knuttle wrote:
>
>> Normal people: It's a difficult decision given the risk of death is
>> almost
>> zero (it's 99.8% likely you won't die in the USA overall and 99.9998%
>> likely
>> to survive if you're a child aged from 5 to 11 in the USA from October
>> 2020
>> to October 2021 according to the CDC's own figures).
>
> I want all the statements I make to be completely scientifically correct.

They never are. In spades with stupid claims about
"genetic therapy" and how mRNA vaccines work.

[Peeler]

On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 07:30:55 +1100, John, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--
FredXX to Rodent Speed:
"You are still an idiot and an embarrassment to your country. No wonder
we shipped the likes of you out of the British Isles. Perhaps stupidity
and criminality is inherited after all?"
Message-ID: <plbf76$gfl$1...@dont-email.me>

[Ed Pawlowski]

On 12/29/2021 2:12 PM, knuttle wrote:

> Perhaps a simpler way to summarize the politicized science problem set is
>
> Rabid Democrats: It's your body my choice
> Rabid Republicans: It's my body my choice
>

If that was true, how do you account for the Texas Republican abortion
laws?

You just make up stuff to suite your agenda at the moment.

[John]

Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.xxx> wrote

That’s what 'Arlen' always does.

[Peeler]

On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 09:04:34 +1100, John, better known as cantankerous

trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--

Richard addressing senile Rodent Speed:
"Shit you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll."
MID: <ogoa38$pul$1...@news.mixmin.net>

[rbowman]

On 12/29/2021 11:57 AM, knuttle wrote:
> How many times have you seen someone ask how to fix a sputtering engine and
> someone claims you should pour seafoam into it (without even debugging)?

And sometimes it's an informed decision... Pull the Keihin jug or pour
a slug of SeaFoam into the tank and see what happens. No more
sputtering, decision loop complete.

[rbowman]

Yeah, I'm starting to have a little deja vu all over again.

[knuttle]

On 12/29/2021 3:30 PM, John wrote:

>> I want all the statements I make to be completely scientifically correct.
>
> They never are. In spades with stupid claims about
> "genetic therapy" and how mRNA vaccines work.

Rod Speed (which is who you are),

Find us even a single scientific definition of mRNA that does not have
"stupid claims" of it being either "genetic material" or related to "genes"
(or both) in that definition.

When you give up, then look at yourself in the mirror when it's proven that
easily that you are the one making the "stupid claims" that aren't backed up
in the science.

Since you're too stupid to even do the search, here, I'll help you:
https://www.google.com/search?q=definition+of+mRNA

[knuttle]

On 12/29/2021 5:00 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

> If that was true, how do you account for the Texas Republican abortion
> laws?
>
> You just make up stuff to suite your agenda at the moment.

Most people who are rabidly political, like you appear to be, are too stupid
to understand what I'm going to say below, which means I'm wasting my time
because you likely don't have anywhere near the required intellectual
capacity to comprehend what I'm about to explain to you.

You're not only ignorant.
You're also stupid.

But let's assume you were simply ignorant.
OK. Let's go.

1. The situation:
The rabid Democrats essentially want to take away your right to own a gun
while the rabid Republicans essentially want to take away your right to have
an abortion.

2. The history:
Essentially, the right to own a gun was enshrined in the Constitution, just
as the right to have an abortion was enshrined in the Roe v Wade decision.

3. The rationale:
It's impossible for me to explain to you and other idiots like you the
rationale of the founding fathers, but suffice to say it's probably the most
discussed topic in American history _why_ the founding fathers put it as the
number two amendment (just after free speech) in the Bill of Rights.

We are not going to hash it out here, so we can just point to what the
Supreme Court has determined which is that it stands as a right that
everyone can own a gun and we leave it at that (since Usenet isn't the place
to change what the Supreme Court already decided long ago).

Likewise with what the Supreme Court decided on abortion. They decided it
was a situation of medical privacy. Is it? Who cares. It's what the Supreme
Court decided and we have to leave it at that since they decided it was her
body her choice long ago.

4. How they play those games:
Given we have two rights, one which the rabid Democrats want to take away
from us, and one which the rabid Republicans want to take away from us, the
question is whether you recognize _how_ they each go about trying to take
away our rights?f

Clearly you're too stupid to recognize _how_ they go about trying to take
away your rights, but most people of average intelligence and above can
easily see that they can't go frontal on them.

5. Why can't they go frontal?
They can't go frontal because that is too strong a "fortress" to defeat
directly with a frontal attack. That is, the rabid Democrats can't go
frontal against the Bill of Rights and the rabid Republicans can't go
frontal against the "right to privacy" any more than the Germans could go
frontal against the Maginot Line.

6. So what do they do then when they can't go frontal?
They chip away at the walls.

One by one, they make laws which _all_ reduce your protections under the
Bill of Rights and under Roe v Wade. Every one of those laws chips away at
the right you have today to own a gun and to have an abortion.

Neither side gives a shit about the Constitution.
Neither side gives a shit about the Supreme Court.

The rabid Democrats will chip away at your right to own a gun until that
right no longer exist. The rabid Republicans will chip away at your right to
have an abortion until that right no longer exists.

Neither side cares _how_ they chip away at your rights.
They just chip away any way they can get away with.

[Mayayana]

rbowman <bow...@montana.com> wrote

> Yeah, I'm starting to have a little deja vu all over again.

Knuttle has been around for decades.
But this John guys is brand new.

You do realize who this "John" is you're speaking with, don't you?

Rod Speed
Blocko
Michael Trew
Jim Joyce
Dean Hoffman
lkpo
John

They're all one and the same.
And more.

[knuttle]

On 12/29/2021 7:56 PM, rbowman wrote:

> And sometimes it's an informed decision... Pull the Keihin jug or pour
> a slug of SeaFoam into the tank and see what happens. No more
> sputtering, decision loop complete.

What does all those smoke particles do to the super expensive cats?

[John]

knuttle <keith_...@sbcglobal.net> wrote

> On 12/29/2021 3:30 PM, John wrote:

>>> I want all the statements I make to be completely scientifically
>>> correct.
>>
>> They never are. In spades with stupid claims about
>> "genetic therapy" and how mRNA vaccines work.

> Find us even a single scientific definition of mRNA that does not have
> "stupid claims" of it being either "genetic material" or related to
> "genes" (or both) in that definition.

The problem is with the word THERAPY, not genetic.

[knuttle]

On 12/29/2021 9:19 PM, John wrote:

>> Find us even a single scientific definition of mRNA that does not have
>> "stupid claims" of it being either "genetic material" or related to
>> "genes" (or both) in that definition.
>
> The problem is with the word THERAPY, not genetic.

Rod Speed,

Why do you always play your silly games with word semantics such that you
create your own personal definition of what "therapy" means but only to you?

Now that you can't deny that mRNA is genetic material, you are playing you
silly little games about what the treatment of the disease should be called.

Since you're too stupid to even look up usage examples, I'll do it for you.

https://www.google.com/search?q=definition+of+therapy
Example in use: "a course of antibiotic therapy"

[Ed Pawlowski]

On 12/29/2021 8:50 PM, knuttle wrote:
> On 12/29/2021 5:00 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>> If that was true, how do you account for the Texas Republican abortion
>> laws?
>>
>> You just make up stuff to suite your agenda at the moment.
>
> Most people who are rabidly political, like you appear to be, are too
> stupid
> to understand what I'm going to say below, which means I'm wasting my time

You got that right Arlen Nut-All. You wasted your time.

[knuttle]

On 12/29/2021 9:57 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

> You wasted your time.

Plonk.

[John]

knuttle <keith_...@sbcglobal.net> wrote

> John wrote

>>> Find us even a single scientific definition of mRNA that does not have
>>> "stupid claims" of it being either "genetic material" or related to
>>> "genes" (or both) in that definition.

>> The problem is with the word THERAPY, not genetic.

> Why do you always play your silly games with word semantics

Words matter with rigorous science.

> such that you create your own personal definition of what "therapy" means
> but only to you?

Even sillier than you usually manage and that’s saying something.

[Ed Pawlowski]

Sheese, I get plonked for being honest. Not fair!

[Bob F]

[Bob F]

On 12/29/2021 8:28 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Getting plonked by the nutto. Priceless!

[The Real Bev]

On 12/29/2021 02:00 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 12/29/2021 2:12 PM, knuttle wrote:
>
>> Perhaps a simpler way to summarize the politicized science problem set is
>>
>> Rabid Democrats: It's your body my choice
>> Rabid Republicans: It's my body my choice
>>
> If that was true, how do you account for the Texas Republican abortion
> laws?

Religion. Real shame those people can't separate religion from
politics. You'd think that they'd be smarter. Once you allow a god to
tell you what you should do all limits are off.


--
Cheers, Bev
Red ship crashes into blue ship - sailors marooned.

[Peeler]

On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 14:39:26 +1100, John, better known as obnoxious

cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--

williamwright addressing Rodent Speed:
"You are an insecure blathermouth with an inferiority complex."
MID: <j08dic...@mid.individual.net>

[Peeler]

On Wed, 29 Dec 2021 21:58:19 -0400, Mayayana wrote:


> Knuttle has been around for decades.
> But this John guys is brand new.
>
> You do realize who this "John" is you're speaking with, don't you?

Of course, he does! But his abnormal need to blather endlessly is such that
he will gladly ignore it, time and again. Yep, many of the senile
blabbermouths here ARE that pathetic. <BG>

[Peeler]

On Wed, 29 Dec 2021 16:56:02 -0700, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:

> And sometimes it's an informed decision... Pull the Keihin jug or pour
> a slug of SeaFoam

Ay, lookie! TWO capital letters within one word, bigmouth! LOL

--
Yet more absolutely idiotic senile blather by lowbrowwoman:
"I save my fries quota for one of the local food trucks that offers
poutine every now and then. If you're going for a coronary might as well
do it right."
MID: <ivdi4g...@mid.individual.net>

[Peter W.]

...that one can't fix Stupid.

My family and I are vaccinated.

Because we are not stupid.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

[Fox's Mercantile]

Neither am I.
We got our shots in March, and the booster in September.


--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com

[John Robertson]

On 2021/12/30 9:01 a.m., Fox's Mercantile wrote:
> On 12/30/21 6:31 AM, Peter W. wrote:
>>
>> ...that one can't fix Stupid.
>>
>> My family and I are vaccinated.
>>
>> Because we are not stupid.
>>
>> Peter Wieck
>> Melrose Park, PA
>
> Neither am I.
> We got our shots in March, and the booster in September.
>
>

Yeah I've had the original two shots and the booster. I've also had my
Polio, Scarlet Fever, Typhoid, Smallpox, and other shots that were
required for travel, staying a healthy adult, or being a child of the 50s...

A friend of mine has mild polio, he got it as a child in Asia - shots
weren't available there at the time.

I'm not an idiot about shots - although the jury is out on other things...

John :-#)#

[rbowman]

The cat adopted me; the only cost is cat food and he's happy with
Friskies. Oh, you meant catalytic converters? Let me explain a Harley's
exhaust system. I've got one set of mufflers with tabs near the end so
if a cop shoves a stick it he will think there are actually baffles.

The Toyota is the only thing I have with a cat. I've had three of the
same model and never had fuel problems so no need for SeaFoam. I don't
use the 'injector cleaner' snake oil either.

I use Stabil in the tanks of the stuff that will be down for the winter
but I've had long debates with myself over whether it's necessary.

That's another interesting discussion -- how much of the snake oil
actually has a beneficial effect. STP oil or gas? Marvel Mystery Oil?
Bar's Stop Leak. I have used Bar's with some success but it was in a
'62 Dodge D100. I don't think I'd use it in anything made in this century.

[knuttle]

On 12/29/2021 11:37 PM, Bob F wrote:

>>>> You wasted your time.
>>>
>>> Plonk.
>>
>> Sheese, I get plonked for being honest.  Not fair!

Bob F. is likely Pawlowski becuase he knows Pawlowski is in everyone's
killfile already so Bob F re-posts Pawlowski's idiocy.

1. Pawlowski is a rabid Democrat (I'm not political - he is).
2. Because he's a rabid Democrat, he believes _everything_ they tell him.
3. One of those things he believes is it's "*My body _my_ choice*"

Yet, when it comes to the "vaccine", Pawlowski says it's NOT your choice.
a. Pawlowski believes with the vaccine it's "*Your body _HIS_ choice*"
b. He's "being honest" when he tells us this crap (which Democrats fed him)
c. I'm "being honest" also - when I say that only an idiot thinks that way

[knuttle]

On 12/29/2021 11:37 PM, Bob F wrote:

>> Sheese, I get plonked for being honest.  Not fair!
>
> Getting plonked by the nutto. Priceless!

You rabid Democrats don't seem to like any scientific statements because
they're true and that's why you can't refute them other than to claim that
anyone speaking true statements must be a nutto.

This BobF already said anyone who speaks logic must be from the far right.
Now he says anyone speaking true scientific statements must be a nutto.

The clock is still ticking on you rabid Democrats (or even any rabid
Republicans out there and even any people of even average intelligence) on
finding a single scientific statement that I've made that you found even a
single incorrect statement that you can show is incorrect.

So far you haven't found one (for example, you repeatedly claimed mRNA isn't
genetic material and then you claimed a medical procedure involving
injections isn't under the realm of medical therapy and then you claimed
that the risk of dying from Covid for kids in the USA wasn't 0.002% (that
is, they have a 99.998% chance of NOT dying) nor that the risk for all
adults (including the ones so sick they're going to die soon anyway) is only
0.2% (which means the risk to any one person of not dying is 99.8%).

When it comes to the scientific fact that most people are naturally immune
to Covid you rabid Democrats failed to comprehend that this means both the
seropositive and the seronegative people because you don't seem to like the
fact that far more than half the population exhibits zero symptoms to Covid.

What's surprising is that Covid is indeed a dangerous disease in that all
those asymptomatic people (at least the seropositive ones) can and do infect
others (despite the early claims from the WHO that it would be "very rare").

But I form that understanding of the disease from scientific facts.
You rabid {Democrats,Republicans} form your basis only on intense fright.

You call anyone who speaks logic using scientific facts a "nutto."
I suspect it's because you don't understrand logic and scientific facts.

You're ignorant (which is fine) but you're also stupid.
Because you're stupid, you'll remain ignorant of all the scientific facts.

The Democrat's line of "your body MY choice" appeals to you.
Not on the basis of logic. Not on the basis os scientific fact.

Merely on the basis of your own undeniably uncontrollable fear.

[knuttle]

On 12/30/2021 12:03 AM, The Real Bev wrote:

> Religion. Real shame those people can't separate religion from
> politics. You'd think that they'd be smarter. Once you allow a god to
> tell you what you should do all limits are off.

What I'm about to explain below is long - but it explains everything.
And I mean everything.

However, the reader must be of at least average intelligence to benefit.
The ignorance of people can be cured by reading but their stupidity can't.

The rabid {Democrats,Republicans} position on these two issues is unsound.
a. The rabid Democrats' position on the vaccine NOT being your choice.
b. The rabid Republicans' position on abortion being based on religion.

We've hashed out how asinine the Democrats' position is where only an idiot
wouldn't instantly notice how firmly they stand on the principle of your
choice of "some" medical procedures but it's no longer your choice on
others.

Either these rabid Democrats firmly stand on the same resolute principle for
both or they instantly prove *they don't give a shit about medical choice*.

The same firm principles should stand for abortion.

The scientific facts are that abortion is a very ugly thing indeed.
In New York state, for example, you can abort at 9 months and beyond.

As longs as that innocent child hasn't been born - you can abort in NY.
They don't even make any pretext about the ability to survive on its own.

The ostensible argument is a medical necessity & privacy argument (as
enshrined in the Supreme Court so we can't realistically hash it out here).

Just as the rabid Democrats hate that people have a right to own guns (as
enshrined in the Constitution so we're not going to hash that out here), the
rabid Republicans hate that people have a right to abort their unborn child.

The problem for intelligent people to realize is _how_ they each go about
eliminating your current rights (as enshrined in the law of the land today).

What's rather interesting is my observation that both actually go about
taking away your rights the same way anyone goes about attacking a fortres.

The Germans chipped away for a while at Fortress Europe and then when they
invaded Poland everyone realized they would incessantly chip away (each time
claiming that's their _last_ attack) until nothing was left.

They'll never stop.
Only until France & Britain drew a line in the sand did they stop for pause.
But even then, they didn't attack the Fortress Maginot directly.
Nobody sane attacks the Constitution directly.
They find a way to eliminate your rights with a million little attacks.

Every law the rabid {Democrats,Republicans} make on {guns,abortion} are an
attempt to chip away at your rights until you no longer have those rights.

The only sensible protection you have is to draw a line in the sand.
It's how _all_ military attacks against anyone have ever worked.

The Japanese didn't go frontal against Washington DC in WWII.
They attacked the easier outlying islands instead.

Why?
Because they wanted to chip away slowly.
They and the Germans and Atilla the Hun and the Mongols and everyone in
history from the Mysterious Sea Peoples to Alexander to Hannibal & Scipio,
to Vercingetorix to Arminius (fast forward) to today do the same thing.

Everyone. In all human history. They all do the same thing.
It takes only an average intelligence (no more needed than that) to see it.

If you can't go frontal against the fortress, you chip away forever.
Until the walls fall down and you finally massacre everyone inside at will.

Only an _intelligent_ person can see what the rabid politicians are doing.
a. The rabid Democrats are chipping away at your right to own a gun
b. The rabid Republicans are chipping away at your right to abort a child

It doesn't matter to them any principle.
That's what any intelligent person can see.

You can easily tell principle doesn't matter if you're intelligent.
a. The rabid Democrats don't give a shit about "your body" "your choice"
b. The rabid Republicans don't give a shit about "your medical privacy"

Each wants to eliminate one of your rights.
Unfortunately, history shows clearly there is only one way to defend.

And that is to draw a line in the sand and defend against every parry.
(If you can come up with a better defense, you'll change history.)

[knuttle]

On 12/30/2021 2:12 PM, rbowman wrote:

> That's another interesting discussion -- how much of the snake oil
> actually has a beneficial effect. STP oil or gas? Marvel Mystery Oil?
> Bar's Stop Leak. I have used Bar's with some success but it was in a
> '62 Dodge D100. I don't think I'd use it in anything made in this century.

You seem to be intelligent so you immediately understood what I was saying.

1. Some stuff is pure snake oil (devoid of any benefits)
2. Some stuff works ok (but it has negatives they don't tell you about)

My comment about the cats is I've seen what comes out the pipe when engines
ingest that stuff and it's not pretty if you wince at the loss of your cats.

Now I'm well aware that everything has pros and cons, just like high zinc
engine oil is great for diesels and non-cat vehicles but it's terrible on
the cats.

The problem with all these miracle cures in a can that I see is that the can
may not even tell you that zinc will ruin your cat - they just tell you how
great zinc is in motor oil. You're supposed to _know_ zinc ruins your cats.

It's a question I ask of all miracle cures because I don't know the answer.
What does seafoam do to the cats?

[knuttle]

On 12/30/2021 12:25 AM, The Real Bev wrote:

> Bumps on the soles of boots are called "lugs".

To be clear there were two reasons I corrected my use of lug bolt.

One was that the word police have been attacking me for using the correct
scientific words for what mRNA is (as you're likely well aware) and even for
their lack of understanding of what it means that most people are immune to
covid (more than half anyway, whether seropositive or seronegative it seems)
and even for my use of the medical therapy terms.

Basically they don't believe in science so what they do is attack science by
claiming that the words used aren't words that they would rather you use.

The words they want you to use make things sound different to them.

An example is how these rabid Democrats spit out that 700,000 people died of
Covid in the US and yet at the same time they _refute_ that the risk to any
one USA individual is only 0.2% (if we know nothing else about them, which
is also inherent in the 700,000 number the rabid Democrats just spit out).

Do you see what I see which is that they hate any accurate number that any
one individual must assess but they love the same accurate number when it
shows (what seems to them to be a bigger) risk to the entire population?

Essentially they only understand scientific facts that make them feel more
scared. They seem to intensely dislike scientific facts that don't appear to
make the problem far worse than it, scientifically speaking, actually is.

They hated so much that most people are naturally immune to covid that they
argued that some people (very few) are apparently seronegative, even as that
means nothing in terms of the scientific fact that more than half the human
population is already naturally immune to covid (they feel no symptoms).

Of course everyone intelligent (except perhaps for Maria Van Kerkhove of the
WHO for some strange reason) knows the scientific fact that even this vast
majority of asymptomatic people can still almost as easily transmit covid
during the infectious period as a person who can who exhibits symptoms.

But did you see the huge lengths they went to about word semantics to deny
that all those scientific facts are, like it or not, scientific facts?

It's that kind of person I was defending against with my clarification of
lug as my ignorance can be cured but their stupidity cannot ever be cured.

[Peter W.]

What I would see offered in High School as suggestions for 'Rules of the Road':

a. Question Authority - Always:
1. When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.
2. The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
3. Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
Arthur C. Clarke
b. Truth is repeatable, independently verifiable and amenable to testing.
c. Faith as revealed religion is none of those things.
d. Most -isms are only thinly disguised Faiths with a thinly disguise godhead such as the 'State' or some individual.
e. The difference between politicians of various parties is the lies that they tell as a natural part of their practice. That they are lying is not at issue.
f. The world owes you nothing. You owe the world your very existence. Protect it as without it, you would not be.

As it applies to troubleshooting:
1. That you find a problem does not make it the only problem.
2. That you fix a problem in an item does not make the item fixed.
3. 'Good enough' often isn't.

Keep in mind that the Average American:

Does not have a college education, including an Associate Degree (60%).
Does not have a passport (64%).
Speaks one language – badly (74%).
Has never traveled voluntarily more than 200 miles from his/her birthplace (57%).
Has never visited a foreign country, not even Mexico or Canada (71%).
Cannot name the Speaker of the House, even today (82%)
Cannot name the three branches of government (64%)
Cannot read at a college level (83%)
Cannot read for content (54%). This person cannot follow written-only directions.
60% of American Households do not buy any book in a year.
Does not believe in Evolution (42% creationism, 32% evolution, 26% no opinion).
Only 73% of eligible voters are registered.
Only 67% of registered voters voted in 2020.
Meaning that the average American eligible to vote does not vote (only 48.9% net). The Average American still does not vote.

This has not one damned thing to do with party, democrat, republican, libertarian, communist, green, whatever. It has to do with massive, systemic and deliberate neglect, and industrial-grade stupidity mixed equally with mil.Spec. ignorance. Quit your bitching - and work it out. It really is you, so only you can change it.

[Peter W.]

Knuttle:

You are really challenging the Drongo from Down Under for the position of "Village Idiot"?

See, you will fail, as you are invincibly stupid - which cannot be fixed. Understand that it requires a basic level of talent to hold the Idiot position, and a recognizable defect that allows any given village resident to be sympathetic to your condition. You emphatically do not have the talent, your defects are entirely of your own making. But then, who knows, you may qualify in another venue, hopefully far from here.

[Ed Pawlowski]

It is impolite to speak about people you plonked. Worse, you are
spreading mis-information. I am a registered Independent and dislike
both parties equally.

You are attributing facts to me that do not exist. You make up stuff to
suite your stupid agenda and don't care about facts. Meantime, you go
off like a nut case. So be it, sensible people see you for what you are.

[Peeler]

On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 12:12:34 -0700, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,

troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:

> The cat adopted me;

Oh, no! Not THAT story again! I bet that cat adopted you because it realized
that you were the coolest person that ever walked the earth! <BG>

[Bob F]

Yes, we do.

[rbowman]

On 12/30/2021 01:02 PM, knuttle wrote:
> On 12/30/2021 2:12 PM, rbowman wrote:
>
>> That's another interesting discussion -- how much of the snake oil
>> actually has a beneficial effect. STP oil or gas? Marvel Mystery Oil?
>> Bar's Stop Leak. I have used Bar's with some success but it was in a
>> '62 Dodge D100. I don't think I'd use it in anything made in this
>> century.
>
> You seem to be intelligent so you immediately understood what I was saying.
>
> 1. Some stuff is pure snake oil (devoid of any benefits)
> 2. Some stuff works ok (but it has negatives they don't tell you about)
>
> My comment about the cats is I've seen what comes out the pipe when engines
> ingest that stuff and it's not pretty if you wince at the loss of your
> cats.

What's a little smoke? A friend had a '59 chevy and thought a dose of
STP would help. We understood smoke was involved so we adjourned to a
country road at the old swimming hole where there were no houses. To
make it even better, the Chevy was filled with random camping gear.

He was having trouble getting the STP down the carb throat, but there
was enough to generate a cloud. During the process a wandering NYS
Trooper stopped to check things out. He determined he was dealing with
two clueless but non-criminal nerds and that the camping stuff wasn't
stolen.

His parting words were 'By the way, gomer, that's STP oil treatment
you're trying to force down the carb with a butter knife. STP gas
treatment works a lot better.'

The friend went on to get his PhD in electronics and had a very
successful career but could be pretty dangerous in the real world. He
wasn't Indian but fit in with the common wisdom at RPI: 'If you wind up
with an Indian lab partner you've lucked out because they're brilliant.
Just don't let them anywhere near a screwdriver.'

[rbowman]

Ed's a long time poster and often has worthwhile comments. However he
came down with a virulent case of TDS and hasn't been quite the same since.

[Ed Pawlowski]

That will pass in 2024. Maybe even 2022 but not sure yet.

[rbowman]

I think 2022 will be a shambles for the Democrats. I hope to hell
somebody can come up with a candidate in 2024 that doesn't trigger my
gag reflex.

[Mike S]

DeSantis.

[Peeler]

On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 23:11:33 -0700, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,

troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:

> I think 2022 will be a shambles for the Democrats. I hope to hell
> somebody can come up with a candidate in 2024 that doesn't trigger my
> gag reflex.

Let's just hope they won't come up with a candidate that will trigger your
big mouth reflex again.

[Peeler]

On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 18:31:15 -0700, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,

troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:

> What's a little smoke? A friend had a '59 chevy and thought a dose of

Oh, no! It starts again...

<FLUSH more of the never-ending senile crap>

--
More of the usual idiotic senile gossip by lowbrowwoman:
"It's been years since I've been in a fast food burger joint but I used
to like Wendy's because they had a salad bar and baked potatoes."
MID: <ivdi4g...@mid.individual.net>

[Ed Pawlowski]

He'll be worse than Trump. He likes being a little dictator.

[knuttle]

On 12/30/2021 8:31 PM, rbowman wrote:

> What's a little smoke?

I once ruined a cat by letting an engine with a bad EGR situation run a bit
too long due to my complacency in a more timely fixing of the rich
condition.

[Heron]

On 12/30/2021 2:01 PM, Fox's Mercantile wrote:
>> Peter Wieck
>> Melrose Park, PA
>
> Neither am I.
> We got our shots in March, and the booster in September.

Crawl back under your rock and go fuck yourself.

[Fox's Mercantile]

Spoken like a true gentleman.