Ethical question.
Jeffrey Angus
So you do the usual amount of diagnostics
and knock a little sense back into the machine.
Being nosy of course, you check out the
pictures folder to see what their kinks are.
Oh, my definitely a bozo no no there.....
So what do you do?
(Some answers giving below are tongue in cheek
for the humor impaired.)
Act like nothing happened?
Congratulate them on their tastes?
Wipe the drive with something like bcwipe and
give it back to them?
Spin up the drive separately and bang it against
the desk repeatedly until you knock a head loose?
Make copies for yourself?
Hand it over to the local police?
Give it back to the customer and turn them in
after a few weeks?
Charge the customer extra and demand payment to
keep quiet?
The two things that bother me the most are the
police have a terrible track record on anonymous
and the lawyers like to claim that YOU put it
there.
So, what to do?
Jeff
D Yuniskis
> Customer brings in a lap top. "Won't boot"
>
> So you do the usual amount of diagnostics
> and knock a little sense back into the machine.
>
> Being nosy of course, you check out the
> pictures folder to see what their kinks are.
Ah, well that's your *first* mistake! :-(
> Oh, my definitely a bozo no no there.....
>
> So what do you do?
> (Some answers giving below are tongue in cheek
> for the humor impaired.)
>
> Act like nothing happened?
>
> Congratulate them on their tastes?
>
> Wipe the drive with something like bcwipe and
> give it back to them?
>
> Spin up the drive separately and bang it against
> the desk repeatedly until you knock a head loose?
>
> Make copies for yourself?
>
> Hand it over to the local police?
>
> Give it back to the customer and turn them in
> after a few weeks?
>
> Charge the customer extra and demand payment to
> keep quiet?
>
> The two things that bother me the most are the
> police have a terrible track record on anonymous
> and the lawyers like to claim that YOU put it
> there.
>
> So, what to do?
Of course, that depends on what you found.
Pix of "him" (?) spanking his neighbor's wife? <shrug>
Pix of "him" pouring cement over Jimmy Hoffa's body...?
To get *it* into the hands of police, you have
already given up any chance of anonymity -- even if
you shipped it to them in an unmarked envelope.
"Hey, I came in to pick up my laptop... What do
you *mean* 'you don't have it'? Where did it go???"
There was a girl named Pandora who made a similar
mistake (except it was a *jar*, in her case)...
Cydrome Leader
> Customer brings in a lap top. "Won't boot"
>
> So you do the usual amount of diagnostics
> and knock a little sense back into the machine.
>
> Being nosy of course, you check out the
> pictures folder to see what their kinks are.
>
> Oh, my definitely a bozo no no there.....
>
> So what do you do?
> (Some answers giving below are tongue in cheek
> for the humor impaired.)
>
> Act like nothing happened?
if you can't resist snooping, try to make up for being nosey by keeping
your mouth shut. Unless their files are corrupt, it's not your job to
snoop, judge then tattle if you don't like what you found.
Meat Plow
I'll assume you found some child porn. If it were me I would hand it over
to the cops. Can't say I really hate much about the world but child abuse
and those who do the abuse would be 1 of the few things I hate.
--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse
William Sommerwerck
a nosy serviceman. You are obliged, if only by common courtesy, not to poke
your snout where it doesn't belong.
Unless you have good reason to believe someone's life is in danger, you
should keep your trap shut.
If this is kiddie porn, you might contact the police anonymously and ask
them what they recommend doing.
Geoffrey S. Mendelson
> Being nosy of course, you check out the
> pictures folder to see what their kinks are.
>
> Oh, my definitely a bozo no no there.....
>
> So what do you do?
> (Some answers giving below are tongue in cheek
> for the humor impaired.)
Absoultely nothing. To be blunt if the word gets out that you did look,
you will NEVER get another computer to fix. While not everyone has a something
to hide, everyone has something they don't want you to see. Whether it's tax
records, letters home from their kid's teachers, or pictures of them, barnyard
animals and interesting approaches, everyone values their privacy at some level.
In fact, I hope for your sake, this is an alias, or the person, or any other
of your customers have no clue about usenet.
With that said, I want to point out a real life experience. A friend of ours
died a few years ago. She was fairly famous in the Jewish community, to the
point that although she lived in Jerusalem, a California community newspaper
had done an interview of her a few years before.
My wife did a web search on her and found that interview. When she brought it
up some porn flashed on the screen for 2-3 seconds. She asked me to look at it,
and to make a long story short, I found that of over 15,000 pages of articles
at that website, well over 2000 had hidden porn links.
The porn ranged from just people without clothes to videos best described as
"Dog and Pony shows" Tiajuana style. It was so well organized that you could
tell all of this without downloading any of these links just by the directory
structure of the file servers they were on, all of which were also "hacked".
Anyone who ever went to this news site had a one in ten chance of having
accessed and downloaded to their cache some porn, and frequent or long term
visitors would have been loaded with it.
I called the owner of the site and explained the situation to him. He had no
idea that not only was his site hacked, but that he had to check it often.
Geoff.
--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to misquote it.
Jeff Liebermann
>So what do you do?
>(Some answers giving below are tongue in cheek
>for the humor impaired.)
Ignore the porno. Literally every machine I've worked on has had at
least some porn on it. You won't be disappointed if you dig around on
mine. Basically, you have an obligation to respect the privacy of the
customer, and digging through their stuff is not exactly what I call
ethical. I've only had one situation where I had to deal with this
directly, and that's when some hacker turned the customers office
machine into a porno server complete with internet access, bbs style
login, etc. Instead of serving spam, it was serving porno. So, I
asked the customer what to do, and if he wanted the stuff saved. He
wanted to look at it before I erased it so I burned a DVD for him.
>Act like nothing happened?
Yep.
>Congratulate them on their tastes?
Nope.
>Wipe the drive with something like bcwipe and
>give it back to them?
That would be vandalism. Presumably, the machine is being used for
something other than collecting porno and has his email, bookmarks,
and documents scattered all over the place. Bad idea.
>Spin up the drive separately and bang it against
>the desk repeatedly until you knock a head loose?
I use a bulk mag tape eraser or old magnetron magnet.
>Make copies for yourself?
Only if it matches your favorite fetish. If there's any good poetry
in there, send it this way.
>Hand it over to the local police?
They'll probably arrest you for running a child porn distribution
service. I know of one local case where something like that happened.
The business owner wanted to sue the former employee that was
collecting the porno on his machine. The police dragged over a
computah forensics expert, who performed an analysis. In the report,
he indicated that there was some child pornography present. So,
instead of arresting the former employee, who was long gone by then,
they file a complaint with (I guess) the state attorney generals
office, who was going to issue a warrant. Common sense eventually
prevailed. The lesson is obvious. You cannot rely on the authorities
to do the obvious or right thing.
>Give it back to the customer and turn them in
>after a few weeks?
The first question you'll be asked is why did you wait. Have a good
excuse ready. You'll need it.
>Charge the customer extra and demand payment to
>keep quiet?
If they have friends in high places, or are of a criminal persuasion,
this is a rather bad idea. They could arrange to have you charged
with blackmail and/or extortion. With the prices you probably charge,
I suspect extortion would be easy to prove.
>The two things that bother me the most are the
>police have a terrible track record on anonymous
>and the lawyers like to claim that YOU put it
>there.
Anonymous is a myth.
>So, what to do?
When in doubt, do nothing.
>Jeff
Remind me to send you an invoice for the free advice.
--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Charlie
"Jeffrey Angus" <jan...@suddenlink.net> wrote in message
news:4d2602bc$0$5566$bbae...@news.suddenlink.net...
> Customer brings in a lap top. "Won't boot"
>
> So you do the usual amount of diagnostics
> and knock a little sense back into the machine.
>
> Being nosy of course, you check out the
> pictures folder to see what their kinks are.
Isn't that an nvasion of privacy? Did you have a search warrant?
Do you open yourself up to a lawsuit?
Advice I one got from an attorney. You never want to be in the witness box.
And you don't know the ansewer until the judge tells you.
D Yuniskis
> "Jeffrey Angus"<jan...@suddenlink.net> wrote in message
> news:4d2602bc$0$5566$bbae...@news.suddenlink.net...
>> Customer brings in a lap top. "Won't boot"
>>
>> So you do the usual amount of diagnostics
>> and knock a little sense back into the machine.
>>
>> Being nosy of course, you check out the
>> pictures folder to see what their kinks are.
>
> Isn't that an nvasion of privacy?
Well, "it depends"... if you deliberately went snooping
around, yes. OTOH, if you happen to open something in
the course of repairing/verifying the machine's operation,
you can justifiably claim innocence.
E.g., I routinely am called on by friends/neighbors
to fix broken laptops. Usually, it's a software issue.
Regardless, I often end up having to image the disk
or do other triage to try to salvage as much of their
"stuff" as is possible. Almost always, this requires
looking at the "stuff" (is this something they downloaded
and can potentially re-download? or, is it something they
created that can't be replicated -- like photos, email, etc.).
I *always* come across something that the owner would
rather not let others know about. Especially kids not
wanting their parents to know what they do when Mom/Dad
aren't watching.
To date, I have never even *flinched* when handing the
repaired laptop back to the owner. Even if they *know*
I may have seen their tax returns, bank statements,
"private photos", personal correspondence, etc. It's
just not "professional" and definitely not what a "friend"
would do.
OTOH, had I found a photo of one of the neighbor *kids*
engaging in some outrageous behavior, you can bet I would
approach *them* about it -- even if they were minors.
> Did you have a search warrant?
I don't think the police are bound by that if the materials
come to them from a "third party". I.e. *you* may be subject
to civil (even criminal?) prosecution but I don't think
that taints the authorities' use of the materials.
> Do you open yourself up to a lawsuit?
Probably. Especially if you can demonstrate financial
losses as a result of those actions (reputation, loss
of employment opportunity, etc.)
In some situations, you might also open yourself up
to criminal prosecution as an accomplice after the
fact.
> Advice I one got from an attorney. You never want to be in the witness box.
> And you don't know the ansewer until the judge tells you.
Best advice is not to go looking for things -- as you have
no control over what you might *find*! E.g., you *don't*
want to know where Hoffa is buried...
Cydrome Leader
this is good advice.
Meat Plow
Let's say the computer is returned with no mention of contraband. Down
the road the owner is arrested, computer seized and contraband found.
Owner says he has no knowledge of the contraband and that he had it
repaired not long ago and the contraband must have been placed their by
the repair person. You are served taken in to be questioned. Do you now
lie about having knowledge about the contraband? What if you are called
to testify? Do you purger yourself and deny knowledge?
Just some food for thought.
jeff_wisnia
I remembered that it was her *box*. <G>
Jeff
--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10e12 furlongs per fortnight.
D Yuniskis
> D Yuniskis wrote:
>> There was a girl named Pandora who made a similar
>> mistake (except it was a *jar*, in her case)...
>
> I remembered that it was her *box*. <G>
Actually, that is a mistranslation. It was, in fact, *jar*
Geoffrey S. Mendelson
>> There was a girl named Pandora who made a similar
>> mistake (except it was a *jar*, in her case)...
jeff_wisnia wrote:
> I remembered that it was her *box*. <G>
It was a jar. According to the wikipedia, it was mistranslated (around
500 years ago) as box and that has stuck in some places.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandora%27s_box
Jeffrey Angus
> Owner says he has no knowledge of the contraband and
> band must have been placed their by the repair person.
Glad to see you paid attention to the original posting.
I wrote:
> and the lawyers like to claim that YOU put it there.
To answer the point of invasion of privacy.
You have no expectation of privacy if you hand your
laptop to someone.
I find the "I would never...." answers humorous. You
don't have to try and prove to me that your morals
are un-impeachable. "Me thinks you doth protest too much."
Unfortunately, with the current state of affairs these
days, it makes it almost mandatory for you to check any
media for illegal material and report it.
And yes, I don't doubt for a minute that the RIAA
would like nothing more than to hang you up by the
balls for failing to report pirated music as well.
But child abuse and child pornography are both very
high up on the "witch hunt" scale right now, and
anyone even remote connected with it, accidentally
or otherwise has to consider the potential damage
to yourself by getting sucked into that situation.
You really have only two options.
1. Deliver the laptop to the police and prepare to
have to testify in court as to who's laptop it is,
what you found on it, and why you had access to it.
2. Cause a physical failure to the drive and return
it to the customer, "Sorry, drive failed can't fix
it, unless you want a new hard drive. But you're
data is gone."
If you're lucky, customer will know why the drive
"failed" and accept that. Of course, if they're total
assholes, which is typical, they'll want to sue you
for losing their "valuable company data they didn't
back up." And you really don't want to have to explain
in civil court why you didn't turn them in to the
authorities.
Jeff
Oh and to the other Jeff, thanks for the consult,
you're check's in the mail.
JeffM
>I'll assume you found some child porn.
>
>If it were me I would hand it over to the cops.
>
Now you have a reputation
not only as someone who does unauthorized snooping
but as a nark.
Word gets out that you are a jerk
and people immediately stop bringing you their work.
Another jackass out of the business. Good.
D Yuniskis
>> D Yuniskis wrote:
>>> There was a girl named Pandora who made a similar
>>> mistake (except it was a *jar*, in her case)...
>
> jeff_wisnia wrote:
>
>> I remembered that it was her *box*.<G>
>
> It was a jar. According to the wikipedia, it was mistranslated (around
> 500 years ago) as box and that has stuck in some places.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandora%27s_box
Ah! I forget how many little bits of tid wikipedia hordes!
In my case, Greek friends set me (and a few teachers)
straight on this decades ago (along with "pea" vs. "pie",
"mee" vs. "mew", etc.)
Meat Plow
A NARC is urban slang for someone who squeals on narcotics dealers.
I will report child porn all day long. But it's nice to see that you
support child porn by not reporting it.
Meat Plow
> On 1/6/2011 3:23 PM, Meat Plow wrote:
>> Owner says he has no knowledge of the contraband and that he had it
>> repaired not long ago and the contra- band must have been placed their
>> by the repair person.
>
> Glad to see you paid attention to the original posting.
I tend to lose my ability to focus when posts are long and ambiguous.
Next time just get to the fucking point. And my arguments are still valid
but also involve morality and honesty. Obvious you know nothing about
either since you were snooping.
Michael Gross
>
> So, what to do?
>
> Jeff
Give it to the first nigger you see and say, "Here, trade this for da
rock homey."
Gareth Magennis
> days, it makes it almost mandatory for you to check any
> media for illegal material and report it.
>
Who the fuck gave you these powers?
Bottom line, you are a Snooper. You are invading peoples' privacy, and thus
behaving totally unethically.
Michael A. Terrell
JeffM wrote:
>
> Meat Plow wrote:
> ?
> ...while snooping somewhere where you weren't authorized.
>
> ?
> Now you have a reputation
> not only as someone who does unauthorized snooping
> but as a nark.
>
> Word gets out that you are a jerk
> and people immediately stop bringing you their work.
> Another jackass out of the business. Good.
With that attitude, people will think you distribute child porn.
--
What are you looking for, all the way down here?
Arfa Daily
"D Yuniskis" <not.goi...@seen.com> wrote in message
news:ig5cmd$8gf$2...@speranza.aioe.org...
But it's only funny if the word is "box" ... :-)
Arfa
Arfa Daily
"Meat Plow" <mhy...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2011.01...@lmao.lol.lol...
> On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 14:17:46 -0800, JeffM wrote:
>
>> Meat Plow wrote:
>>>I'll assume you found some child porn.
>>>
>> ...while snooping somewhere where you weren't authorized.
>>
>>>If it were me I would hand it over to the cops.
>>>
>> Now you have a reputation
>> not only as someone who does unauthorized snooping but as a nark.
>>
>> Word gets out that you are a jerk
>> and people immediately stop bringing you their work. Another jackass out
>> of the business. Good.
>
> A NARC is urban slang for someone who squeals on narcotics dealers.
In the UK, it's definitely spelt with a "k" and usually goes in the phrase
'copper's nark' as in a police informant. The wisdom on the interweb seems
to suggest that it is derived from a Romany word meaning "nose" , so I
suppose further deriving "nosey" (person) from that ...
Arfa
JeffM
>>Now you have a reputation
>>not only as someone who does unauthorized snooping
>>but as a nark.
>>
>>Word gets out that you are a jerk
>>and people immediately stop bringing you their work.
>>Another jackass out of the business. Good.
>>
>With that attitude, people will think you distribute child porn.
>
written by the hand of the most honest man,
I would find something in them to have him hanged."
--Cardinal Richelieu
You advocate making it easier on the persecutors
who go after individuals who haven't harmed anyone.[1]
Want to put a REAL dent in child porn?
Stop wasting resources on people who aren't hurting anyone.
Go after THE PRODUCERS .
...and It could easily be argued
that guys who are whacking off at their computers
are NOT a threat to any *actual* kids.
Charge a guy with possessing CP then put me on the jury
and he gets an acquittal.
I don't see anyone whom *he* victimized.
.
.
[1] The only thing more stupid
is the trend to consider possession of *drawings*
to be prosecutable.
All of you priggish blue noses can go to Hell.
mm
wrote:
>
>>
>> So, what to do?
>>
>> Jeff
>
>I'll assume you found some child porn. If it were me I would hand it over
>to the cops. Can't say I really hate much about the world but child abuse
>and those who do the abuse would be 1 of the few things I hate.
I think I would make a distinction between child porn the owwner
created versus stuff that looks clearly purchased, even though both
are illegal.
I bought a big harddrive at a hamfest last summer and it wasn't wiped
like most are, adn on it was nothing involving children, but there was
some porn, a little bit of labeled with a web-addreess, so it was
clearly downloaded, a free sample perhaps, and a couple short videos
that had no one in them that looked anything like the owner of the
hard drive.
OTOH, there were others that looked home made, because the same "girl"
appeared in the bedroom and ohter plces like at a restaurant.
Actually some of the girls wree in their 50's and quite unattractive,
and a couple were darn good looking and pretty young, but still 25 or
30. I think the man is not married. He also had a lot of family
pictures. (I've thought of trying to find him in case these were his
only copies of the pictures.)
My point is that maybe the op can tell if it was user created, or
received from a friend?, versus bought, where the customers arrest
wouldn't have any repercussion for the sellers, iiuc. I don't know
entirely how, but I could clearly tell the differnce in what I saw.
Any other evidence of a real crime, like videos of vandalism,
muggings, arson, murders, should be turned over to the police, and I
don't think any defense claims, if any, that the computer repair man
inserted anything will be believed by anyone.
Just a couple days ago there was another example of some group
videoing their beating up a homeless man.
OTOH, how can a customer be so stupid he takes teh computer in if it
contains anything illegal. There are some people who wouldn't even
ask advice and woudl take it to the police if it showed someone
spitting on the sidewalk. That's illegal too some places.
mm
wrote:
>
>"Jeffrey Angus" <jan...@suddenlink.net> wrote in message
>news:4d2602bc$0$5566$bbae...@news.suddenlink.net...
>> Customer brings in a lap top. "Won't boot"
>>
>> So you do the usual amount of diagnostics
>> and knock a little sense back into the machine.
>>
>> Being nosy of course, you check out the
>> pictures folder to see what their kinks are.
>
> Isn't that an nvasion of privacy? Did you have a search warrant?
FWIW, search warrants don't relate to private parties, only the
government. They don't give search warrants to private parties, not
even private detectives. Only to government law enforement persons.
Like DY said.
"Invasion of privacy" is a term that can apply lots of places but only
a few of them are illegal or tortious.
However the OP says he was nosy and snooping. If he says that
elsewhere or used his real name here, he's weakened his defense a lot.
mm
>
>To answer the point of invasion of privacy.
>You have no expectation of privacy if you hand your
>laptop to someone.
You may well be right about this. If I sent my diary in to have it
rebound, and the bookbinder read it, well if I kept a diary I wouldn't
send it to a bookbinder.
What exactly did you find on this computer?
I forgot about child abuse. That's even worse than naked poses of a
child, which is all I had in mind that I called pornography.
To the others, if the OP had no reason to suspect a crime and he
snooped just because he was nosy, yes, that's unethical, but his
unethical behaviour doesn't mean he has to hide in the corner after he
found something bad. If the right thing to do for a perfectly ehtical
person, who only found this stuff because he needed to verify that the
.jpg viewer was working, and he chose a picture named NiagraFalls
because he thought it wouldnt' be personal, if the proper thing to do
for him is to go to the police, then it's the proper thing for a
snooper to do too. If the OP were a murderer, it would still be the
proper thing to do. Everyone has failings; some are even criminals;
it doesn't mean they're not allowed to turn in other people who commit
crimes. Rather, they have the same moral obligations the rest of us
do.
William Sommerwerck
> computer in if it contains anything illegal?
In this case, the machine wouldn't boot.
If one has material one does not wish others to see -- legal or illegal --
it should be stored on an external drive. One can then hand the computer to
a serviceman without worry.
Though the temptation to snoop can be overwhelming, an ethical serviceman
will resist the temptation at all times. No one expects him to "play
police", and no reasonable person would condemn him for not prying, even in
cases of child molestation or murder.
It's NOT his business to spy on his neighbors and report unacceptable
behavior. The Constitution protects our privacy, and though that protection
doesn't generally apply to snooping by neighbors, an ethical person will
respect that protection.
Michael A. Terrell
No one wants to go with an ass like you.
Plain...@yawho.com
<jan...@suddenlink.net> wrote:
>Customer brings in a lap top. "Won't boot"
>
>So you do the usual amount of diagnostics
>and knock a little sense back into the machine.
>
>Being nosy of course, you check out the
>pictures folder to see what their kinks are.
>
>Oh, my definitely a bozo no no there.....
>
>So what do you do?
>(Some answers giving below are tongue in cheek
>for the humor impaired.)
>
>Act like nothing happened?
>
>Congratulate them on their tastes?
>
>Wipe the drive with something like bcwipe and
>give it back to them?
>
>Spin up the drive separately and bang it against
>the desk repeatedly until you knock a head loose?
>
>Make copies for yourself?
>
>Hand it over to the local police?
>
>Give it back to the customer and turn them in
>after a few weeks?
>
>Charge the customer extra and demand payment to
>keep quiet?
>
>The two things that bother me the most are the
>police have a terrible track record on anonymous
>and the lawyers like to claim that YOU put it
>there.
>
>So, what to do?
>
>Jeff
Ethical as what? A businessman or a human being? The fact that you
were snooping 'of course' casts doubt upon your ethics as a
businessman. And it doesn't say much for your character either.
What was it? Hidden camera videos of the cutomer boffing a series of
adults of either gender? 'Snuff' porn, 'crush' porn, or some local
politician in drag? The same answer applies - give the computer back
to the customer, collect your usual fee (less 10% to remind yourself
to behave next time).
If it was genuine kiddie porn - an adult abusing a pre-teen, you have
a chance to prove your qualifications as a decent human being. Call
the police, show them what you found, and prepare to suffer the
fallout.
PlainBill
Jeff Liebermann
<jan...@suddenlink.net> wrote:
None of my customer will ever admit to downloading porno, even when
confronted with the evidence. There's also the problem of the friends
sending pornographic jokes and photos via email.
>You really have only two options.
>1. Deliver the laptop to the police and prepare to
>have to testify in court as to who's laptop it is,
>what you found on it, and why you had access to it.
In parts of the world, you never call of the police unless they have
someone to arrest to drag away to jail. Wasting a policemans time is
a bad idea. A neighbor called the police over some trivial matter
that was easily resolved before they arrived. Dissapointed, he walked
around the neighborhood, found some pot plants, and arrested everyone
in sight. In a different incident, a neighbor threw the building
inspector out of her house. So, we went around and ticketed me for
having an unregistered dead vehicle on the property. Unless you have
a clear cut complaint, that requires no decision making on the part of
the policeman, don't call.
>2. Cause a physical failure to the drive and return
>it to the customer, "Sorry, drive failed can't fix
>it, unless you want a new hard drive. But you're
>data is gone."
That's great. Scorched earth, computer style. If you can't have the
porno, nobody can. Be prepared for customer retribution. The devine
retribution will have to wait.
There's always a compromise, which doesn't quite make everyone happy,
but should be sufficient.
3. Move, not copy, the porno to a DVD and hand him the DVD. Clean
the stuff off the computer. He may even thank you for doing his
housekeeping for him. You can also sell him an external USB or eSATA
drive to keep his porno off the main machine, so his wife won't find
it.
I make image backups (Acronis 2011) of all my customers drives before
I start working on them. It's mostly to cover myself in case I erase
something important, or in case a virus removal goes awry. If he
wants his porno back, it's at least available.
>Oh and to the other Jeff, thanks for the consult,
>you're check's in the mail.
Yeah, sure. I'll believe it when I see it. If you can't get yourself
to filling out the amount, just send me a blank and signed check. I
can do the rest.
Jeff Liebermann
<jan...@suddenlink.net> wrote:
(...)
Googling, I found a good start on a computer repair code of ethics.
<http://www.darn-computer.com/Ethics.htm>
I think I've broken all ten rules. As I recall, the original ten
commandments were only a subset of about 600 assorted ammendments,
rules, and regulations that arrived later, so there's plenty of room
for creativity.
A good start would be the gold (plated) rule. Do unto the customer as
you would have them do unto you. If you give your computer to me for
repair, I don't think you would be very happy if I gave it back to you
in pieces.
Jeff Liebermann
>you're check's in the mail.
Ummm.... are you billing this customer for your time looking at his
photos? (Just curious).
PeterD
wrote:
>On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 11:58:21 -0600, Jeffrey Angus wrote:
>
>> Customer brings in a lap top. "Won't boot"
>>
>> So you do the usual amount of diagnostics and knock a little sense back
>> into the machine.
>>
>> Being nosy of course, you check out the pictures folder to see what
>> their kinks are.
>>
>> Oh, my definitely a bozo no no there.....
>>
>> So what do you do?
>> (Some answers giving below are tongue in cheek for the humor impaired.)
>>
>> Act like nothing happened?
>>
>> Congratulate them on their tastes?
>>
>> Wipe the drive with something like bcwipe and give it back to them?
>>
>> Spin up the drive separately and bang it against the desk repeatedly
>> until you knock a head loose?
>>
>> Make copies for yourself?
>>
>> Hand it over to the local police?
>>
>> Give it back to the customer and turn them in after a few weeks?
>>
>> Charge the customer extra and demand payment to keep quiet?
>>
>> The two things that bother me the most are the police have a terrible
>> track record on anonymous and the lawyers like to claim that YOU put it
>> there.
>>
>> So, what to do?
>>
>> Jeff
>
>I'll assume you found some child porn. If it were me I would hand it over
>to the cops.
Assuming child porn, he may not have an option, but be required to
hand it over or face possible legal concequences. Consider this, a
week later, the guy is busted for something else, and the porn is
discovered... What are the odds that he will say "Wasn't on my
computer before I took it to ABC for service, they must have dropped
that suff on the drive, not me!" and when the authorities come to you,
what are you going to say? You didn't report it? That's a crime in
many places. You didn't do it? Try to prove it!
PeterD
<grizzle...@comcast.net> wrote:
>The customer brought in the computer to be repaired -- not to be searched by
>a nosy serviceman. You are obliged, if only by common courtesy, not to poke
>your snout where it doesn't belong.
I will say that when I teach law and ethics in the university where I
teach, this is one thing we do cover. You don't snoop on anyone's
computer for any reason unless the owner has explicitly approved it.
Then again, I've seen some idiots with stuff like this on their
computers and still say something like "it is ok to look on my
drive..."
Not everyone has a brain and knows how to use it!
>
>Unless you have good reason to believe someone's life is in danger, you
>should keep your trap shut.
>
>If this is kiddie porn, you might contact the police anonymously and ask
>them what they recommend doing.
Excellent advice.
>
D Yuniskis
IANAL. But, ...
Technically, the burden of proof that you *did* it lies with
the authorities (though that doesn't mean to say you're not
going to be in for a lot of headache, etc.). E.g., you can
*kill* an intruder in your house, here -- but, be prepared
to spend a year in the court system defending your actions
(and who knows how much exposure to civil suits you might have!)
[note that you are still, potentially, in this predicament
even if you didn't *know* there was something "illegal" on
the machine]
Proving you were unaware of it can be tricky. Most systems
track accesses to files -- in several different ways. Some
filesystems track "last access time". Many applications
maintain MRU lists. And, presentation layers might also.
I.e., if you used *his* machine to view *his* files, the
machine can attest to the fact that "someone looked at this"
at some particular time (he can then claim you had physical
possession of the device at the time in question).
Of course, you can cook all of this data in the machine
and make it *claim* anything you want (i.e., last accessed
20 years ago -- before the laptop was even manufactured! :< ).
Though you then leave yourself open to suspicion for simply
*knowing* how to do these things!
However, if you have *told* anyone about this, then you (and
they!) are complicit.
I stand by my original comment: *looking* is your first mistake!
When you're in business, you are always at increased risk for
"problems" because you typically deal with a variety of people
about which you know very little (this is why I only service
computers of friends/neighbors/relatives).
D Yuniskis
> On Thu, 6 Jan 2011 11:25:19 -0800, "William Sommerwerck"
> <grizzle...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> The customer brought in the computer to be repaired -- not to be searched by
>> a nosy serviceman. You are obliged, if only by common courtesy, not to poke
>> your snout where it doesn't belong.
>
> I will say that when I teach law and ethics in the university where I
> teach, this is one thing we do cover. You don't snoop on anyone's
> computer for any reason unless the owner has explicitly approved it.
That depends on how you define "snoop". Gratuitously poking around
at things you don't *need* to see vs. *innocently* using things that
are "on-hand" to test the machine's operations...
[BTW, I recommend Forester & Morrison's "Computer Ethics". A bit
dated but brings up lots of issues that are worth considering
wet the ubiquity of computers in our society]
> Then again, I've seen some idiots with stuff like this on their
> computers and still say something like "it is ok to look on my
> drive..."
>
> Not everyone has a brain and knows how to use it!
It is alarming how naive/ignorant most folks are re: technological
issues. Whether it is "personal privacy" or more insidious issues.
I have a friend who tends to be obsessive about privacy and takes
often extraordinary measures to safeguard his. Yet, was stunned
(decades ago) when I told him that his use of "800 numbers"
compromised his privacy. Nowadays, cell phones being *personal*
items (vs. *shared* items) makes this even moreso.
[I was able to document my (ex)brother-in-law's "philandering"
just by examining his cell phone and charge/banking records.
"How do you know that I wasn't at work on this date? And,
how can you claim that I was at the No-Tell Motel at that
time? *And*, that I was with that particular girl??"]
>> Unless you have good reason to believe someone's life is in danger, you
>> should keep your trap shut.
>>
>> If this is kiddie porn, you might contact the police anonymously and ask
>> them what they recommend doing.
>
> Excellent advice.
There is no "anonymously". Your call *will* be recorded.
If the information is "actionable", you can bet the "closest
squad" will be diverted to your location.
Someone used one of the computers at the local library to send
an "anonymous" (threatening) email to <mumblemumble>. Police
simply took the computer away as evidence. Guy was arrested
a few weeks later...
mm
<not.goi...@seen.com> wrote:
>
>I have a friend who tends to be obsessive about privacy and takes
>often extraordinary measures to safeguard his. Yet, was stunned
>(decades ago) when I told him that his use of "800 numbers"
>compromised his privacy.
In what way? Do you mean because *67 won't hide your phone number
from them? MOst people don't know that. They know it about 911 but
there is no organized method of telling anyone about 800 and 866
numbers and it's not surprising he didn't know.
> Nowadays, cell phones being *personal*
>items (vs. *shared* items) makes this even moreso.
>
>[I was able to document my (ex)brother-in-law's "philandering"
>just by examining his cell phone and charge/banking records.
>"How do you know that I wasn't at work on this date? And,
>how can you claim that I was at the No-Tell Motel at that
>time? *And*, that I was with that particular girl??"]
>
>>> Unless you have good reason to believe someone's life is in danger, you
>>> should keep your trap shut.
>>>
>>> If this is kiddie porn, you might contact the police anonymously and ask
>>> them what they recommend doing.
If it's kiddie porn, they'll tell you to give them your address and
they'll come over that day, or they'll send someone, and not to return
the computer yet, and that is the right thing to do, subject maybe to
my distinction in another post.
>> Excellent advice.
>
>There is no "anonymously". Your call *will* be recorded.
>If the information is "actionable", you can bet the "closest
>squad" will be diverted to your location.
>
>Someone used one of the computers at the local library to send
>an "anonymous" (threatening) email to <mumblemumble>. Police
>simply took the computer away as evidence. Guy was arrested
>a few weeks later...
You can still make a phone call from a pay phone. Or your
(ex)brother-in-law's phone, maybe.
D Yuniskis
> On Fri, 07 Jan 2011 15:35:36 -0700, D Yuniskis
> <not.goi...@seen.com> wrote:
>
>> I have a friend who tends to be obsessive about privacy and takes
>> often extraordinary measures to safeguard his. Yet, was stunned
>> (decades ago) when I told him that his use of "800 numbers"
>> compromised his privacy.
>
> In what way? Do you mean because *67 won't hide your phone number
> from them? MOst people don't know that. They know it about 911 but
> there is no organized method of telling anyone about 800 and 866
> numbers and it's not surprising he didn't know.
The conversation in question happened in the early 80's.
I just told him that the called party gets a list of
phone numbers that placed calls *to* their number as
part of their billing arrangement. Nowadays, that
information is "live" -- e.g., call to "authorize"
your newly received credit card and the device on
the other end of the line is comparing the phone number
from which you are *currently* calling to the one that
they have on file for you.
The point of my comment is that there are lots of ways that
communications/transactions are "tagged" that even a "savvy"
user may not be aware of.
E.g., your IP address can be used to tie "who you are" to
"what you say (i.e., *post*/email/etc.).
"Ah, but I go to the local coffee bar and use their *wireless*
so the IP address isn't tied to *me*!" [Yes, but your MAC
is! :> )
"OK, so I'll change network cards. Or, hack the firmware
so that I can generate 'random' MACs (and rely on probability
to ensure I don't accidentally pick one that is in use)?
[yes, but your browser has a footprint that can be used
to narrow down "who you might be"]
"OK, so I will reload software each time and pick different
browsers, option configurations, etc." [yes, but you have a
certain "style of writing"...]
Etc.
I.e., don't do anything that you wouldn't do "non-anonymously".
>> Nowadays, cell phones being *personal*
>> items (vs. *shared* items) makes this even moreso.
>>
>> [I was able to document my (ex)brother-in-law's "philandering"
>> just by examining his cell phone and charge/banking records.
>> "How do you know that I wasn't at work on this date? And,
>> how can you claim that I was at the No-Tell Motel at that
>> time? *And*, that I was with that particular girl??"]
>>
>>>> Unless you have good reason to believe someone's life is in danger, you
>>>> should keep your trap shut.
>>>>
>>>> If this is kiddie porn, you might contact the police anonymously and ask
>>>> them what they recommend doing.
>
> If it's kiddie porn, they'll tell you to give them your address and
> they'll come over that day, or they'll send someone, and not to return
I have no idea. I don't put myself in these sorts of situations
because I don't want to have to deal with them :> (I've got
enough stuff that I *must* do without looking for *other*
things to put on my plate! :> )
A friend had a *box* of cash delivered to her doorstep.
I recall talking with her at the time about what she
should do. Of course, she would have loved to just
*keep* it (~10K IIRC).
Aside from the moral issues, my advice to her was that
she *had* to report it to the police. It is no doubt
"dirty" money (how many folks ship boxes of cash??).
And, if someone sent it to your house intending it
for the previous resident -- or, perhaps transposed
two digits in the address -- what do you do when/if
they knock on your door (with a crowbar!) asking
for their money back??
> the computer yet, and that is the right thing to do, subject maybe to
> my distinction in another post.
>
>>> Excellent advice.
>>
>> There is no "anonymously". Your call *will* be recorded.
>> If the information is "actionable", you can bet the "closest
>> squad" will be diverted to your location.
>>
>> Someone used one of the computers at the local library to send
>> an "anonymous" (threatening) email to<mumblemumble>. Police
>> simply took the computer away as evidence. Guy was arrested
>> a few weeks later...
>
> You can still make a phone call from a pay phone. Or your
> (ex)brother-in-law's phone, maybe.
Sure! Though the call is still recorded (so it could
be proven to be *your* voice) and can still be traced
to identify where *you* are at this moment.
As I said, don't do anything that you wouldn't do "non-anonymously".
If you don't have the cajones to do/say it when folks KNOW who
you are, relying on "anonymity" is eventually going to leave you
disappointed/surprised!
Matthew Fries
<jan...@suddenlink.net> wrote:
>So, what to do?
>
>Jeff
Get a lawyer. Ask them.
I remember several years ago, something similar happened to Pete
Townshend of "The Who". He brought his computer into a shop for
service and the tech squealed on him because there was some child
abuse photos on there.
Pete said that he was doing research because he had been abused when
he was young.
I think Pete got some sort of community service sentence, but that was
after a long legal proceeding. I remember feeling really pissed at the
tech who did that (and I'm sure Pete did as well).
All this happened in the UK, and my anger may have been misplaced if
there is some law that compells people to report this stuff, but my
instinct as a USian is not to go snooping, and if you did, don't let
on that you did (by reporting it).
BTW: to keep this on topic... What was the problem with the laptop
that made it not boot?
Thanks.
Remove the BALONEY from my email address.
-----------------------------------------------------
Matthew Fries Minneapolis, MN USA
fre...@baloneyvisi.com
"Quit eating all my *STUFF*!" - The Tick
Jeffrey Angus
> I remember several years ago, something similar happened to Pete
> Townshend of "The Who".
Uh-huh, Community service. Right. If it had been any of us,
we'd still be in prison.
> BTW: to keep this on topic... What was the problem with the laptop
> that made it not boot?
Actually the topic is ethical question.
But since you asked, video driver for a web cam. wrong
one, crashed the machine on boot.
And while I originally posted "tongue in cheek" about
snooping, the original problem was the web cam driver.
When I brought up the correct one to make sure it
worked, I took a picture, and it dropped it into the
"Bozo no no" zone where I went to check that it worked
properly.
Jeff
Arfa Daily
"PeterD" <pet...@hipson.net> wrote in message
news:a52fi6htrc69tmdk5...@4ax.com...
I talked to a friend of mine who does computer service, about this. He says
that virtually every machine he sees has 'dubious' material on it, but he
disputes that the argument that "the stuff was put on there by the guy that
repaired it" would ever wash, as he says that there are download dates and
so on, deeply embedded in the files, that any forensic computer expert
working for the police, could easily dig out. and use to prove exactly when
the material was placed on the machine. However, he says that in all the
years that he's been doing it, he has never seen a machine come in for
repair, with CP on it.
Arfa
PeterD
<not.goi...@seen.com> wrote:
>On 1/7/2011 2:44 PM, PeterD wrote:
>>>...
>>
>> Assuming child porn, he may not have an option, but be required to
>> hand it over or face possible legal concequences. Consider this, a
>> week later, the guy is busted for something else, and the porn is
>> discovered... What are the odds that he will say "Wasn't on my
>> computer before I took it to ABC for service, they must have dropped
>> that suff on the drive, not me!" and when the authorities come to you,
>> what are you going to say? You didn't report it? That's a crime in
>> many places. You didn't do it? Try to prove it!
>
>IANAL. But, ...
>
>Technically, the burden of proof that you *did* it lies with
>the authorities (though that doesn't mean to say you're not
>going to be in for a lot of headache, etc.).
Current law enforcement in the USA no longer works that way. You are
required to prove your are innocent or else you are considered guilty.
>E.g., you can
>*kill* an intruder in your house, here -- but, be prepared
>to spend a year in the court system defending your actions
>(and who knows how much exposure to civil suits you might have!)
>
>[note that you are still, potentially, in this predicament
>even if you didn't *know* there was something "illegal" on
>the machine]
>
>Proving you were unaware of it can be tricky.
Proving you didn't put the porn on the customer's computer would be
nearly impossible. The assumption will be that you are guilty in most
locations.
Generally speaking convictions are so easy (because of the emotional
aspect mostly) that proof needed is minimal. It is NOT worth the risk.
> Most systems
>track accesses to files -- in several different ways. Some
>filesystems track "last access time". Many applications
>maintain MRU lists. And, presentation layers might also.
>
>I.e., if you used *his* machine to view *his* files, the
>machine can attest to the fact that "someone looked at this"
>at some particular time (he can then claim you had physical
>possession of the device at the time in question).
>
>Of course, you can cook all of this data in the machine
>and make it *claim* anything you want (i.e., last accessed
>20 years ago -- before the laptop was even manufactured! :< ).
>Though you then leave yourself open to suspicion for simply
>*knowing* how to do these things!
>
>However, if you have *told* anyone about this, then you (and
>they!) are complicit.
>
>I stand by my original comment: *looking* is your first mistake!
>When you're in business, you are always at increased risk for
>"problems" because you typically deal with a variety of people
>about which you know very little (this is why I only service
>computers of friends/neighbors/relatives).
Looking was a major blunder. Violated ethics and privacy laws. That we
can easily agree on!
PeterD
One major issue here is that we still have many investigators who are
so computer illertate that they can't find this type of information.
Things are getting better however and they will eventually be able to
understand computers, file information, etc.
But it still presents a major risk to the service people, and (as
mentioned) looking was a major fuck-up on the technican's part.
JeffM
>a friend of mine who does computer service[...]
>says that there are download dates and so on,
>
Sounds like nonsense to me.
>deeply embedded in the files,
>
"Touch" utilities have been around since the dawn of computing
and can alter the file dates at will.
The repair person having possession of the computer
queers the chain of custody.
If I was on a jury hearing this, I'd consider the whole case suspect.
>he says that in all the years that he's been doing it,
>he has never seen a machine come in for repair, with CP on it.
>
Yet another unethical snooper.
Geoffrey S. Mendelson
> "Touch" utilities have been around since the dawn of computing
> and can alter the file dates at will.
Anyone who can use a search engine can find a bootable disk image/USB stick
image of disk utilites that let you read all sorts of disks, in all sorts
of condition. They allow you to look at files without setting access flags
and dates, etc.
Someone mentioned using Acronis True Image to image a disk, that leaves
no records and then if you were to make the image onto a permanent medium,
such as a DVD, you can then make a copy of the file off of the image and no
record is made on the image of the access.
> The repair person having possession of the computer
> queers the chain of custody.
> If I was on a jury hearing this, I'd consider the whole case suspect.
What chain of custody? This is not an episode of CSI, my giving you a computer
to fix, and having a recipt for the the computer or a repair is not a chain
of custody. It's evidence that you had it and I did not. Evidence is not
proof and it's certainly not any evidence that once I gave it to you, you kept
control of it.
> Yet another unethical snooper.
That I agree.
Geoff.
--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to misquote it.
Baron
> <jan...@suddenlink.net> wrote:
>
> I remember several years ago, something similar happened to Pete
> Townshend of "The Who". He brought his computer into a shop for
> service and the tech squealed on him because there was some child
> abuse photos on there.
FWIW. That was the store manager trying to take advantage of free
publicity when it was realised who the owner was !
--
Best Regards:
Baron.
The Peeler
<jan...@suddenlink.net> wrote:
The customer may have bought the laptop used on eBay or elsewhere and
may be totally unaware of its contents.
PeterD
<peeli...@invalid.admin> wrote:
>On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 11:58:21 -0600, Jeffrey Angus
><jan...@suddenlink.net> wrote:
>
>>Customer brings in a lap top. "Won't boot"
>>...
>>
>>So, what to do?
>>
>>Jeff
>
>The customer may have bought the laptop used on eBay or elsewhere and
>may be totally unaware of its contents.
That has nothting to do with the problem and what to do.
The Peeler
It certainly does. He may have great difficulty proving his
innocence.
PeterD
The original post wasn't based on the 'owner' proving innocence or
not, only the ethical issues, and to a certain extent the legal issues
WRT the repair shop. We can save that issue for a later thread perhaps
(Say titled "My Friend Bought a Notebook on eBay and it Has Porn On
It")
JW
Message id: <r2sgi6ho9crra7ujs...@4ax.com>:
>
>Current law enforcement in the USA no longer works that way. You are
>required to prove your are innocent or else you are considered guilty.
[...]
>The assumption will be that you are guilty in most
>locations.
Troll status confirmed.
PeterD
You're admitting you are a troll? Or that the entire thread was a
troll (which is likely)? Claiming I'm a troll? <g> Or is it that if
someone posts something you don't agree with a troller?
JW
Message id: <4l2mi6d9lg0uvqert...@4ax.com>:
>On Mon, 10 Jan 2011 05:52:57 -0500, JW <no...@dev.null> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 08 Jan 2011 09:13:44 -0500 PeterD <pet...@hipson.net> wrote in
>>Message id: <r2sgi6ho9crra7ujs...@4ax.com>:
>>
>>>
>>>Current law enforcement in the USA no longer works that way. You are
>>>required to prove your are innocent or else you are considered guilty.
>>[...]
>>>The assumption will be that you are guilty in most
>>>locations.
>>
>>Troll status confirmed.
>
>You're admitting you are a troll?
No.
>Or that the entire thread was a
>troll (which is likely)?
No.
>Claiming I'm a troll? <g>
Yes.
>Or is it that if
>someone posts something you don't agree with a troller?
No.
The Peeler
>On Sun, 09 Jan 2011 13:36:10 -0700, The Peeler
><peelingthe@invalid,admin> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 09 Jan 2011 09:50:24 -0500, PeterD <pet...@hipson.net> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 09 Jan 2011 08:41:08 -0700, The Peeler
>>><peeli...@invalid.admin> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 11:58:21 -0600, Jeffrey Angus
>>>><jan...@suddenlink.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Customer brings in a lap top. "Won't boot"
>>>>>...
>>>>>
>>>>>So, what to do?
>>>>>
>>>>>Jeff
>>>>
>>>>The customer may have bought the laptop used on eBay or elsewhere and
>>>>may be totally unaware of its contents.
>>>
>>>That has nothting to do with the problem and what to do.
>>
>>It certainly does. He may have great difficulty proving his
>>innocence.
>
>The original post wasn't based on the 'owner' proving innocence or
>not, only the ethical issues, and to a certain extent the legal issues
>WRT the repair shop.
The owner is likely to have a shitload of legal issues which will make
the legal issues of the repair shop seem trivial in comparison.
> We can save that issue for a later thread perhaps
>(Say titled "My Friend Bought a Notebook on eBay and it Has Porn On
>It")
Same problem if someone else sees it.
PeterD
>>...
>>
>>You're admitting you are a troll?
>
>No.
Wrong on that point, troll boy.
>
>>Or that the entire thread was a
>>troll (which is likely)?
>
>No.
Wrong on that point, troll boy.
>
>>Claiming I'm a troll? <g>
>
>Yes.
Wrong on that point, troll boy.
>
>>Or is it that if
>>someone posts something you don't agree with a troller?
>
>No.
Wrong on that point, troll boy.
Wow, totally wrong... Why am I not surprised?
JW
Message id: <7bnoi69f6jmmtpd09...@4ax.com>:
Troll-O-Meter
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
*----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+-----*
.^.
/ | \
|
Not very subtle. Try harder next time.
TMI
of computer repair, unless you are going to guess at the effectiveness
of your repair and let the customer test it out. Generally, this
pisses customers off as a good percentage of time the computer isn't
fixed or will fail again for the same reason (virus embedded files
being accessed). From a basic customer service point of view, they
expect you to shake the unit out.
Conversely, the moment you uncover something embarrassing,
controversial or worse yet actionable, privacy becomes the main
objective.
While you should consult with a lawyer for details, I think a computer
repair shop should have a boilerplate statement on it's estimate and
repair orders indicating that files will be accessed in the process of
repair and while privacy is respected, the shop is not in league with
criminals, particularly, those who deal in Child Porn and reserves the
right to delete and/or report and such information found. A wall sign
to this effect might be a good idea as well.
Most customers are willing to do anything to get their data back so
this will have little effect on business, at least the business you
want.
This being said, for the sake of your protection, take note that it is
often difficult to distinguish between files downloaded by a virus
that are unknown to the user and those that get the user's jolly's off
without an investigation that is beyond the scope of your repair. Even
Unofficial Sesame Street sites have embedded porn. Imagine calling
down the wrath of God on someone whose child clicked the wrong Big
Bird!!! We all want to be the hero that saves a child. What happens
when you destroy a family by mistake instead????
Pete Townsend has done more over his career to shine a spotlight on
child abuse than any other pop star. He started long before looking at
the Willowbrook's of the world was a popular expose' topic. When
people just looked away because it was too painful to imagine. Yet, he
was paraded before the media when someone stuck their nose in out of
context. Care to guess how many children were hurt along with Mr.
Townsend's creditability?
At my level, discretion is expected and failure generally means a
lawsuit or worse. I avoid accessing unneeded content as you should. I
explain to customers that I will be removing content that is suspect
to the stable operation of their computers and try to preserve it on a
CD or DVD. I hand this over to the customer and explain the risk of
accessing such sites. Often, the computer owner is not the source of
the problem. I feel, since they are your customer, that you owe them a
chance to address the issue before sounding the Child Pornographer
alarm.
Just because we can....does not mean we should.
PeterD
I got one too, and put your posts on it, and got: