Adding RGB input to Sony Trinitron
boardjunkie1
this as an arcade game monitor (in a MAME setup) and need RGB and
seperate sync inputs.
From the schem, I see the "jungle" chip has RGB outputs, so I assume I
can insert the color gun signals here. What signal level is it wanting
to see here? .7v? Also, I need to keep the OSD for setup and
adjustments, so will this be the best option?
The schem is here:
http://www.eserviceinfo.com/downloadsm/36631/sony_KV-21FV10%20%20parte1.html
I can see a good place to tap in H sync (after the seperator), but I
don't see any reference to V sync. I see the output IC, but its a PITA
to trace it back.
Suggestions?
Adrian C
You might find something useful here.
http://133fsb.wordpress.com/2010/05/22/adding-an-rgb-input-to-a-cheap-generic-ntsc-tv/
--
Adrian C
boardjunkie1
> On 26/02/2011 17:14, boardjunkie1 wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > I picked up a flat face Trinitron yesterday for peanuts. I plan to use
> > this as an arcade game monitor (in a MAME setup) and need RGB and
> > seperate sync inputs.
>
> > From the schem, I see the "jungle" chip has RGB outputs, so I assume I
> > can insert the color gun signals here. What signal level is it wanting
> > to see here? .7v? Also, I need to keep the OSD for setup and
> > adjustments, so will this be the best option?
>
> > The schem is here:
>
> > I can see a good place to tap in H sync (after the seperator), but I
> > don't see any reference to V sync. I see the output IC, but its a PITA
> > to trace it back.
>
> > Suggestions?
>
> You might find something useful here.
>
>
> --
> Adrian C- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
I saw that, but it looks as if he's using the OSD as the input point.
I'd rather not do that since I will need the OSD for setup.
Also, there is another set of RGB inputs on the jungle chip that are
tied to the supply line via caps. Maybe this is where the Euro
versions inject RGB via the scart input?
stra...@yahoo.com
> I picked up a flat face Trinitron yesterday for peanuts. I plan to use
> this as an arcade game monitor (in a MAME setup) and need RGB and
> seperate sync inputs.
>
> From the schem, I see the "jungle" chip has RGB outputs, so I assume I
> can insert the color gun signals here. What signal level is it wanting
> to see here? .7v? Also, I need to keep the OSD for setup and
> adjustments, so will this be the best option?
>
>
> I can see a good place to tap in H sync (after the seperator), but I
> don't see any reference to V sync. I see the output IC, but its a PITA
> to trace it back.
>
> Suggestions?
First and foremost. Is the video signal you want to insert the same H
and V rate as the TV? TVs are not like computer monitors having
multiple line and frame rates. If the rates don't match it will not
work. Period. If they are the same rate, you'll have to get signal
levels and DC offsets to match. This may require DC restoration
amplifiers. Do you know how to build those? This isn't a beginners
project and it may be cheaper time and money wise to get the right
monitor for the job.
G²
boardjunkie1
>
> - Show quoted text -
Holy christ man......I'm not a complete idiot. I just don't come from
a consumer electronics repair background, I was involved in commercial
amusement repair for 20 years. Long and short, I need a Trinitron TV
to act as an RGB monitor. R/G/B/ and H/V sync inputs is what I need. I
have commercial RGB monitors, I just want better image quality.
And yes, I built an RGB video amp to match .7v signals to a TTL video
input. I NEED STD RES, 15khz RGB monitor via this TV due to the
enhanced performance the Trinitron format offers.......
Wild_Bill
find/see what Sony did for RGB inputs.
Many Sony chassis have commercial versions, for use in studio environments..
so you may find it easier to obtain the Sony module add-on.
As for the OSD requirement, by retaining a composite video output, setup
adjustments could be seen on a small LCD video display, connected just for
adjustments.
--
Cheers,
WB
.............
"boardjunkie1" <boardj...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:fc93fa1f-a3f3-4b2a...@x4g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
Adrian C
> On Feb 26, 3:05 pm, Adrian C<em...@here.invalid> wrote:
>>> I can see a good place to tap in H sync (after the seperator), but I
>>> don't see any reference to V sync. I see the output IC, but its a PITA
>>> to trace it back.
There is a training manual for the BA-4 chassis here. I know yours is
BA-4D but just skip over for that for now.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/3507921/Sony-TV-Training-Manual-Chassi-BA4
On page 70 at the bottom V & H pulses are shown as inputs to IC001
MICRO, which on your BA-4D set for V looks like Pin 2 of that chip
(I-VPN). It is fed from Pin 5 (VTIM - vertical timing?) of IC301 chroma
jumgle chip - but needn't be I wonder?
> Also, there is another set of RGB inputs on the jungle chip that are
> tied to the supply line via caps. Maybe this is where the Euro
> versions inject RGB via the scart input?
The jungle chip is a CXA2061S, it's a 'Y/C/RGB/D for NTSC Color TVs.
CXA2061S Datasheet :)
http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/sony/a6802306.pdf
And there is a further manual here for your BA-4D chassis
http://www.scribd.com/doc/8264534/sony-BA4D-
HTH!
--
Adrian C
William Sommerwerck
> and V rate as the TV? TVs are not like computer
> monitors having multiple line and frame rates. If the
> rates don't match it will not work. Period.
Not necessarily. It depends on how different the rates are. In general, if
the incoming frequency is higher, you'll probably get sync. You might run
into size or linearity problems, however.
boardjunkie1
> On 26/02/2011 20:27, boardjunkie1 wrote:
>
> > On Feb 26, 3:05 pm, Adrian C<em...@here.invalid> wrote:
> >>> I can see a good place to tap in H sync (after the seperator), but I
> >>> don't see any reference to V sync. I see the output IC, but its a PITA
> >>> to trace it back.
>
> There is a training manual for the BA-4 chassis here. I know yours is
> BA-4D but just skip over for that for now.
>
> http://www.scribd.com/doc/3507921/Sony-TV-Training-Manual-Chassi-BA4
>
> On page 70 at the bottom V & H pulses are shown as inputs to IC001
> MICRO, which on your BA-4D set for V looks like Pin 2 of that chip
> (I-VPN). It is fed from Pin 5 (VTIM - vertical timing?) of IC301 chroma
> jumgle chip - but needn't be I wonder?
>
> > Also, there is another set of RGB inputs on the jungle chip that are
> > tied to the supply line via caps. Maybe this is where the Euro
> > versions inject RGB via the scart input?
>
> The jungle chip is a CXA2061S, it's a 'Y/C/RGB/D for NTSC Color TVs.
>
>
> And there is a further manual here for your BA-4D chassishttp://www.scribd.com/doc/8264534/sony-BA4D-
>
> HTH!
>
> --
> Adrian C
Excellent info! Thanks....
boardjunkie1
>
> - Show quoted text -
Ok, I've been looking at the datasheet for the jungle chip and it
appears I can use the set of unused RGB inputs. I'm a little foggy
about the select line tho (YS1). They left it floating, so to select
that set of inputs what is it looking for? Just a logic level H or L?
Adrian C
> Ok, I've been looking at the datasheet for the jungle chip and it
> appears I can use the set of unused RGB inputs. I'm a little foggy
> about the select line tho (YS1). They left it floating, so to select
> that set of inputs what is it looking for? Just a logic level H or L?
Top of Page 9, description for Pin 25?
More than 0.7V switches the input on.
However, there is an I2C register detailed on Page 22 - RGB SEL (1):
"Disables YS1 switch selection and prohibits external signal input from
RGB1"
If that's set (and it probably is_, then you'll have to find a way to
unset that. EEPROM hacking? dunno.
Seems, there is a pin compatible jungle chip, the CXA2060AS which works
for PAL sets that will have SCART RGB on those same inputs.
http://www.sony.net/Products/SC-HP/cx_news/vol11/pdf/a2060.pdf
A bit of googling should find you a european Sony set that uses that
chip and then ... etc....
(Can't take all the fun away from your expedition!... :-)
--
Adrian C
boardjunkie1
> On 27/02/2011 19:11, boardjunkie1 wrote:
>
> > Ok, I've been looking at the datasheet for the jungle chip and it
> > appears I can use the set of unused RGB inputs. I'm a little foggy
> > about the select line tho (YS1). They left it floating, so to select
> > that set of inputs what is it looking for? Just a logic level H or L?
>
> Top of Page 9, description for Pin 25?
> More than 0.7V switches the input on.
>
> However, there is an I2C register detailed on Page 22 - RGB SEL (1):
> "Disables YS1 switch selection and prohibits external signal input from
> RGB1"
>
> If that's set (and it probably is_, then you'll have to find a way to
> unset that. EEPROM hacking? dunno.
>
> Seems, there is a pin compatible jungle chip, the CXA2060AS which works
>
> A bit of googling should find you a european Sony set that uses that
> chip and then ... etc....
>
> (Can't take all the fun away from your expedition!... :-)
>
> --
> Adrian C
Ok, good to know. If the extra RGB input idea doesn't pan out I can
always inject the color signals at the RGB outputs on the jungle chip
via the RGB amp I had to build to get the video V levels up to where
the arcade monitor wanted to get good color saturation and black level.
boardjunkie1
>
> - Show quoted text -
Just an update. The extra set of RGB inputs on the jungle chip *was*
disabled in software. I got nothing there. So I just injected color
inputs at the RGB output pins. So its up and runnin', just some minor
tweaks to be done. Thanks everyone for the info....
stra...@yahoo.com
Glad to see you got it going. I'm sorry I assumed you didn't know what
you're doing. Congratulations.
G²
boardjunkie1
>
> - Show quoted text -
No harm done. It looks pretty damn good as of now, but I think the
bottleneck may be the RGB amp I built. I may look into an IC based
circuit that is a little more elegant than what I threw together from
whatever I could rob out of junk boards.
Christen Alex
I would not recommend doing such a thing. Without a proper NTSC signal,
your flyback and horizontal output transformer will be fried.
boardjunkie1
> boardjunkie1 wrote:
> > I picked up a flat face Trinitron yesterday for peanuts. I plan to use
> > this as an arcade game monitor (in a MAME setup) and need RGB and
> > seperate sync inputs.
>
> > From the schem, I see the "jungle" chip has RGB outputs, so I assume I
> > can insert the color gun signals here. What signal level is it wanting
> > to see here? .7v? Also, I need to keep the OSD for setup and
> > adjustments, so will this be the best option?
>
> > The schem is here:
>
> > I can see a good place to tap in H sync (after the seperator), but I
> > don't see any reference to V sync. I see the output IC, but its a PITA
> > to trace it back.
>
> > Suggestions?
>
> I would not recommend doing such a thing. Without a proper NTSC signal,
>
> - Show quoted text -
Getting back to this project.....while it works, I'm not happy with
the video quality with the simple RGB amp I threw together. Seems like
theres excessive contrast....backgrounds are too dark and small
details are getting buried. So I have an LM1203 I think will do a
better job.
I think the circuit in the app notes of the datasheet (p16) will
suffice. I'm foggy on what to do with the clamp gate input. They show
a sync stripper chip providing its signal, but I'm not working with
composite sync.....its seperate H/V passively mixed to "fake"
composite. The tv doesn't have a problem with it, but that chip might.
http://www.national.com/ds/LM/LM1203.pdf
Any insight?
boardjunkie1
> > I picked up a flat face Trinitron yesterday for peanuts. I plan to use
> > this as an arcade game monitor (in a MAME setup) and need RGB and
> > seperate sync inputs.
>
> > From the schem, I see the "jungle" chip has RGB outputs, so I assume I
> > can insert the color gun signals here. What signal level is it wanting
> > to see here? .7v? Also, I need to keep the OSD for setup and
> > adjustments, so will this be the best option?
>
> > The schem is here:
>
> > I can see a good place to tap in H sync (after the seperator), but I
> > don't see any reference to V sync. I see the output IC, but its a PITA
> > to trace it back.
>
> > Suggestions?
>
> I would not recommend doing such a thing. Without a proper NTSC signal,
>
> - Show quoted text -
A "flyback" *is* a horiz output transformer....
stra...@yahoo.com
The H drive trailing edge can trigger a 3-5 uSec monostable to make
the clamp gate. You just need the timing shown in figure 5 on page 7.
If you run into anomalies during the vertical interval you may need to
gate out clamp pulses during vertical but it will likely be OK without
gating.. Good luck.
G²