Problem with a Sony Multiscan E500
Starflex
I have a problem with this monitor:the "black" doesn't appear black..but
only "light black"..almost green...
Searching in the service manual, have found that there is a rail, +80v CC
(without particular signal wave), that in my monitor is "only" 78,6v CC.
In the service manual there isn' t wrote the tollerance for this (ex, +-
0,2v).. but this line @ 80V gave the power to the RGB AMP board.
I had seen the power supply board and the line @ +80V appears ok.
So I want to test if the problem is the lower voltage: can I put a 1,5 volts
cell in series to the + 80v circuit?
Of course only for a momentt, just the time to see if the problem is solved
or not.
What do you think about this ideas? I'm an idiot to think this? :-)
Ken
Is this one of the monitors where you cannot darken the picture enough?
If so, you might have the infamous Sony G2 problem that requires a
modification so that it is reduced. You do not want to mess with the
"Rail" that you describe. Write back with the answer to if you can
reduce the contrast and brightness to a dark level, and I might be able
to help you.
Starflex
> Is this one of the monitors where you cannot darken the picture
> enough? If so, you might have the infamous Sony G2 problem that
> requires a modification so that it is reduced. You do not want to
> mess with the "Rail" that you describe. Write back with the answer
> to if you can reduce the contrast and brightness to a dark level, and
> I might be able to help you.
Hi Ken,
Sorry, I'm italian and I have some difficulties to explain correctly the
problem (..of course, not because "I'm Italian"...but because I don't speak
english very well..! :-) )
First of all, if you want, you can download the service manual (PDF) from
this site:
www.scooterclub-nolimits.it/E500.pdf
Now I try to describe the problem.
I gave this monitor for free, from a friend, that don' t use it because it
had some problems.
The monitor was very "out of convergence", and I solved the problem only
moving the fold poles on the tube, and finally using the regulation of the
OSD.
But the principal problem, now, is another: the monitor appear too bright.
If I put the brightness at the lower valour, and the contrast at the higher
one, the monitor is too bright.
The red appear nearly orange, the black appear too bright...like a black
t-shirt that you have washed many and many times (sorry for the stupid
example).
This is the problem.
Moreover, at this time, I don't have an oscilloscope (sigh!) to check signal
form...
Starflex
> If so, you might have the infamous Sony G2 problem that
> requires a modification so that it is reduced.
..uhm...I think that you are speaking about this:
http://www.geocities.com/gregua/windas/
Probably this is the problem...you gave me a good way to search in Google,
speaking me about "Sony G2 problem"!
Ken
First off your English is fine. You might use different descriptive
words than I would use, but I think I understand what your problem is.
The monitor you have is NOT the same one I have. Mine is a 19" Dell
Trinitron made by Sony and the problem sure sounds the same. Below are
a few links that might not be exactly about your monitor, but you should
get the idea of what the problem is if your monitor is of the same type.
The monitor has a port that can be used to adjust the G2 voltage, but
it requires software and an adapter be made. The details on how to do
this are probably mentioned in the links below. The only problem is it
is a lot of work for only one monitor. If you had many, it might be the
way to go.
There is however a modification that can be made to bring the monitor
into a usable setting. On my 19" monitor my notes say to replace R459
(10Meg) with a 4.6-6.8Meg one. (If the present value of that resistor
is not accurate, disregard the value and resistor number I suggested.)
There then is another (different) resistor that you must modify rather
than the one I suggested. The links I suggested might give you the
correct one? The resistor is of course in the rear of the monitor on a
vertical mounted PWB above the flyback area. It is not on the main
horizontal PWB that the flyback transformer is mounted.
The key is you are modifying the bias for the transistor controlling
the G2 voltage to the CRT. Once you find the current resistor, jumper
in some different values until you get the correct brightness. Do this
check with your brightness and contrast at the midrange setting.
http://www.short-media.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19549&page=14
http://www.geocities.com/gregua/windas/
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Sony+G500&btnG=Google+Search
If you write back I will try to answer any questions you might have or
suggest where you might find more answers. A search on Google for "G2
too high, Sony, Dell, Trinitron, etc." might also be productive.
Eeyore
Starflex wrote:
> Hi to everybody!
> I have a problem with this monitor:the "black" doesn't appear black..but
> only "light black"..almost green...
I have an E530.
Do you have the on screen menu ? Go to the COLOR menu - below the color
temperature setting select *IMAGE RESTORATION* and select it !
It worked for me. Better now than it was when delivered in fact.
Graham
Starflex
> First off your English is fine. You might use different descriptive
> words than I would use, but I think I understand what your problem is.
> The monitor you have is NOT the same one I have. Mine is a 19" Dell
> Trinitron made by Sony and the problem sure sounds the same. Below
> are a few links that might not be exactly about your monitor, but you
> should get the idea of what the problem is if your monitor is of the
> same type.
Thank you Ken!
Moreover...your monitor (Sony/Dell 19") is the SAME monitor (I think..mine
is Sony multiscan E400) that i'm using now.
And I have also a question for this screen: i had some problem with the
convergence...
Also in your monitor is "quite impossible" to obtain a correct convergence
in all parts of the screen?
Using, of course, all the "fold poles" on the tube and the regluations on
the "Menu' "..
I don' t obtain a perfect convergence...
> The monitor has a port that can be used to adjust the G2 voltage, but
> it requires software and an adapter be made. The details on how to do
> this are probably mentioned in the links below. The only problem is
> it is a lot of work for only one monitor. If you had many, it might
> be the way to go.
uhmm.. I think that I try this way, if I found the cable, or if I can make
it with a few money.
> There is however a modification that can be made to bring the monitor
> into a usable setting. On my 19" monitor my notes say to replace R459
> (10Meg) with a 4.6-6.8Meg one. (If the present value of that resistor
> is not accurate, disregard the value and resistor number I suggested.)
> There then is another (different) resistor that you must modify rather
> than the one I suggested. The links I suggested might give you the
> correct one? The resistor is of course in the rear of the monitor on
> a vertical mounted PWB above the flyback area. It is not on the main
> horizontal PWB that the flyback transformer is mounted.
>
> The key is you are modifying the bias for the transistor controlling
> the G2 voltage to the CRT. Once you find the current resistor, jumper
> in some different values until you get the correct brightness. Do
> this check with your brightness and contrast at the midrange setting.
> http://www.short-media.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19549&page=14
> http://www.geocities.com/gregua/windas/
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Sony+G500&btnG=Google+Search
Perfect, I think that you gave me the solution.
First of all, I search a way to made the cable and use the software to
correct the problem.
But, if I find it too expensive, or too long (I think, too long!), I try the
solutions of the resistors, buying some resistors and finding the correct
value for the better image.
> If you write back I will try to answer any questions you might have or
> suggest where you might find more answers. A search on Google for "G2
> too high, Sony, Dell, Trinitron, etc." might also be productive.
Thank you a lot, Ken, you are very kind.
Now I search, with the help of "Saint Google", all the info for using the
digital alignment software (moreover, in ofe of the link, there is a great
guide).
Thank you, thank you, thank you! :-)
Eeyore
Starflex wrote:
> Ken wrote:
>
> > First off your English is fine. You might use different descriptive
> > words than I would use, but I think I understand what your problem is.
> > The monitor you have is NOT the same one I have. Mine is a 19" Dell
> > Trinitron made by Sony and the problem sure sounds the same. Below
> > are a few links that might not be exactly about your monitor, but you
> > should get the idea of what the problem is if your monitor is of the
> > same type.
>
> Thank you Ken!
> Moreover...your monitor (Sony/Dell 19") is the SAME monitor (I think..mine
> is Sony multiscan E400) that i'm using now.
Yes, Dell used a Sony chassis AIUI.
I found myself in the same position as you about a year ago and actually bought
another (second-hand) 21" Sony as a possible replacement on ebay. I was talking
to the seller about picking it up and he gave me the tip about color
restoration. It works a treat ! As a result I still haven't yet used that
monitor but I just got a PCI video card for a second display and soon I'll have
2 21" Sonys in front of me.
Graham
Starflex
> Do you have the on screen menu ? Go to the COLOR menu - below the
> color temperature setting select *IMAGE RESTORATION* and select it !
>
> It worked for me. Better now than it was when delivered in fact.
Uhmm...in My E500 there isn't the "IMAGE RESTORATION" selection, under the
menu..
I had seen ALL the sub-menu....
Ken
> Ken wrote:
>
>> First off your English is fine. You might use different descriptive
>> words than I would use, but I think I understand what your problem is.
>> The monitor you have is NOT the same one I have. Mine is a 19" Dell
>> Trinitron made by Sony and the problem sure sounds the same. Below
>> are a few links that might not be exactly about your monitor, but you
>> should get the idea of what the problem is if your monitor is of the
>> same type.
>
> Thank you Ken!
> Moreover...your monitor (Sony/Dell 19") is the SAME monitor (I think..mine
> is Sony multiscan E400) that i'm using now.
> And I have also a question for this screen: i had some problem with the
> convergence...
> Also in your monitor is "quite impossible" to obtain a correct convergence
> in all parts of the screen?
> Using, of course, all the "fold poles" on the tube and the regluations on
> the "Menu' "..
> I don' t obtain a perfect convergence...
I am not sure exactly where you are at with your problem right now, as
there have been additional posts regarding it. But I would like to
suggest you clear up the G2 problem before you adjust other items like
convergence. At least that is what I would do before attempting them.
If you mess with convergence and it is not needed, you could make a
bigger headache for yourself. Just my two cents.
Starflex
>> Thank you Ken!
>> Moreover...your monitor (Sony/Dell 19") is the SAME monitor (I
>> think..mine is Sony multiscan E400) that i'm using now.
>> And I have also a question for this screen: i had some problem with
>> the convergence...
>> Also in your monitor is "quite impossible" to obtain a correct
>> convergence in all parts of the screen?
>> Using, of course, all the "fold poles" on the tube and the
>> regluations on the "Menu' "..
>> I don' t obtain a perfect convergence...
>
> I am not sure exactly where you are at with your problem right now, as
> there have been additional posts regarding it. But I would like to
> suggest you clear up the G2 problem before you adjust other items like
> convergence. At least that is what I would do before attempting them.
> If you mess with convergence and it is not needed, you could make a
> bigger headache for yourself. Just my two cents.
Just a moment: i have TWO monitors.
The 21" one, that is "overbright", and the 19" that is out of convergence.
The E50, 21", now is open and I'm not using it (I have orded the cable to
use WINDAS Sony recalibration software), instead I'm using the 19" (that had
perfet colours and correct G2 value, and is only is out of convergence).
In this last one, 19", probably I can solve the problem with the same
program. I had read that there is also a sub menu that can correct defect of
gometry,etc...
Ken
OK, I misunderstood. I thought you had a monitor that exhibited both
problems. From what I read you can perform just about everything with
the software and cable, so you are probably correct in expecting the
convergence problem to be corrected as well. Should you get a cable and
try the software, post a new message in the news group telling us how it
worked. I would be interested in your results. Good luck.
Starflex
> OK, I misunderstood. I thought you had a monitor that exhibited both
> problems. From what I read you can perform just about everything with
> the software and cable, so you are probably correct in expecting the
> convergence problem to be corrected as well. Should you get a cable
> and try the software, post a new message in the news group telling us
> how it worked. I would be interested in your results. Good luck.
Perfect, Ken.
I have buyed the cable/adaptator and d/loaded the program.
I think that the cable need about 10 days to arrive ( sigh..), but BE SURE
that I post a new message with the results, in the 21" and also in the 19"
one.
You have traced me the correct way to find the problem: thank you a lot!
Eeyore
Starflex wrote:
It has an icon that's totally meaningless. Do look again. It's under the COLOR
menu. There are only 2 options - set color temperature and color restoration on
my E530. It works a treat too.
Graham
Starflex
> It has an icon that's totally meaningless. Do look again. It's under
> the COLOR menu. There are only 2 options - set color temperature and
> color restoration on my E530. It works a treat too.
Wait.
I push the button. I go to the right and I enter into the "color " menu.
Now I have three possiblitites: "Easy", "Expert" and "SRGB".
In none of these there is a icon or a "color restoration" possibilities...
Eeyore
Starflex wrote:
Maybe it's not on that model then.
Have you got a service manual btw ? I found one here...
http://www.eserviceinfo.com/download.php?fileid=18433
I don't know how you link and open tar files though.
Graham
Andy Cuffe
Thanks for posting that. It will be very useful. I built a cable
several years ago for the DOS version, but it was almost impossible to
use without the special test generators and color meter.
Is there a way to add older models to the database? It's the older
ones like the GDM-W900 and even GDM-20SE1 that could use the most
adjustment these days. Most are so far off that I don't even bother
with them any more.
Andy Cuffe
Sjouke Burry
Andy Cuffe
I think it's in the option menu on some monitors. If it's too old it
won't have it though. They added this feature around 2001, but it
doesn't work on the 21" monitors from that year. They go through the
motions, but I've never seen a 21" from 2001 where it made much
difference to the picture. It works like magic on the 19" from 2001
and the later 21" ones.
Andy Cuffe
Starflex
> I think it's in the option menu on some monitors. If it's too old it
> won't have it though. They added this feature around 2001, but it
> doesn't work on the 21" monitors from that year. They go through the
> motions, but I've never seen a 21" from 2001 where it made much
> difference to the picture. It works like magic on the 19" from 2001
> and the later 21" ones.
My E500 was manufactured on December 2000.It was dismissed about in 2004 for
this problem (overbright) , and the old owner gave me it.
So I have picked up it about two months ago.
In the menu there isn' t this option, I'm sure.
Probably, Sony introduced this feature for further model to solve this
problem...that is very common, I see...
Starflex
> Thanks for posting that. It will be very useful. I built a cable
> several years ago for the DOS version, but it was almost impossible to
> use without the special test generators and color meter.
Windas does seem work also without signal generator (like ASTRO SG)...
It return an error during the work, but it work properly to write eeprom (I
don't had already used, I had only read this).
> Is there a way to add older models to the database? It's the older
> ones like the GDM-W900 and even GDM-20SE1 that could use the most
> adjustment these days. Most are so far off that I don't even bother
> with them any more.
I' m sure that in Windas there is GDW-FW900 in three version.
Moreover, in this LOOOOOOONG thread:
http://www.short-media.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19549
I had read that some people with the W900 monitor had solved its problem
with Windas.
If, of course, I had understand it correctly...
It's a very long post, but it is very interesting...
Andy Cuffe
<starpi...@liberotex.it> wrote:
>
>I' m sure that in Windas there is GDW-FW900 in three version.
>Moreover, in this LOOOOOOONG thread:
>
>http://www.short-media.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19549
>
>I had read that some people with the W900 monitor had solved its problem
>with Windas.
>If, of course, I had understand it correctly...
>It's a very long post, but it is very interesting...
>
>
The FW900 is a newer monitor with a flat screen. The W900 has a
curved screen and I assume it has a different chassis. I mentioned it
because I recently saw one for sale that looked good except for a blue
background with retrace lines.
Andy Cuffe
Andy Cuffe
<starpi...@liberotex.it> wrote:
>
>My E500 was manufactured on December 2000.It was dismissed about in 2004 for
>this problem (overbright) , and the old owner gave me it.
>So I have picked up it about two months ago.
>In the menu there isn' t this option, I'm sure.
>Probably, Sony introduced this feature for further model to solve this
>problem...that is very common, I see...
>
You'll have to fix it by adjustment then. 2000 is too early for this
feature.
Does anyone know why these monitors get brighter as they age? It
seems like a strange way for a CRT to age. I've also noticed that
these monitors get dimmer as they warm up. They are way over bright
just after initial warm up and settle down to normal brightness over
the first 10-20 min.
Andy Cuffe
Starflex
> Does anyone know why these monitors get brighter as they age? It
> seems like a strange way for a CRT to age.
Well..some people says that this feature is probably searched by Sony, due
to compense the aging of the tube.
But sometimes the compensation (I think that, with the age, the tube lost a
part of his normal brightness) is too high, and so the monitor appear
"overbright".
For this reason, I think, the Sony Service don't solve the problem if you
gave to his service labs the monitor: they said that "The crt is ended, and
it need a new tube"...
If you read the long thread of the link, you can find persons that fix it
forcing the brightness to the valour of 130, 150, 110...some different
valour.
Every says that "the monitor is now perfect", but I think that is quite
strange that the same monitor is "perfect" with some, different, value of
the brightness.
Probably, they find the better solution due to the age of their monitor (and
also, of their tube)..according to the Sony's theory about "increasing
brightness due to life" (..if there is this theory...)
Also my 21" one was under Sony service, but they said that -the prevoius
owner- must spent over 400 Euros to solve the problem, replacing the tube...
Of course, he don't choose the reparation, and gave to me the monitor "as a
gift for experiments".
Probably, I think, if I fix the problem with Windas, after 12-18 months I'll
have a monitor that is really "ended"...
Obviously I want to fix it...but I'm not very very sure about a future, long
life of the tube...
Of course, IMVHO: I'm still waiting rs-ttl converter, and so I don't know
nothing, at this time, about my monitor.
I'm sure that Sony declare, for my monitor, a G2 tension of 512V, and I've
found 599 volts.....a little bit high...
(please consider that I'm italian,so please excuse my poor english)
Starflex
> The FW900 is a newer monitor with a flat screen. The W900 has a
> curved screen and I assume it has a different chassis. I mentioned it
> because I recently saw one for sale that looked good except for a blue
> background with retrace lines.
..uhmm..I don't know...but you can try to solve the problem using the
resistor solutions..
You must find the service manual, and find the voltage partitor in the RGB
AMP board...and try this solution. think that, if you have the BIG fortune
of living in America, you can find a lot of store that probably can sell to
you,for a very low price, a FW900 with the same problem, but that you can
fix (of course, probably...)using WINDAS.
In Italy is impossible to find those screen....also find a 21" for about 100
Euros (of course, with the brightness problem..) is a VERY BIG fortune...