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Indian power loss, leakage?

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Don McKenzie

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Jul 31, 2012, 3:58:55 PM7/31/12
to

Indian power loss, leakage?

How could India have power problems?

Check out the perfect wiring:
http://www.photopumpkin.com/photo-blog/perfect-wiring-up-india/

Don...

--
Don McKenzie

Olinuxino Linux PC:
http://www.dontronics-shop.com/olinuxino.html

The World's Cheapest Computer:
DuinoMite the PIC32 $30 Basic Computer-MicroController
http://www.dontronics-shop.com/the-maximite-computer.html
Just add a VGA monitor or TV, and PS2 Keyboard.
Arduino Shield, Programmed in Basic, or C.

John Larkin

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Jul 31, 2012, 4:48:08 PM7/31/12
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On Wed, 01 Aug 2012 05:58:55 +1000, Don McKenzie <5...@2.5A> wrote:

>
>Indian power loss, leakage?
>
>How could India have power problems?
>
>Check out the perfect wiring:
>http://www.photopumpkin.com/photo-blog/perfect-wiring-up-india/
>
>Don...

Yikes!

I once designed an electric meter for use in India, and it had
extensive anti-tamper hooks. Seems like a lot of power is stolen.
Military vets seem to feel that they are owed electricity for free.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

Precision electronic instrumentation
Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators
Custom laser drivers and controllers
Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links
VME thermocouple, LVDT, synchro acquisition and simulation

Don McKenzie

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Jul 31, 2012, 4:53:17 PM7/31/12
to
On 01-Aug-12 6:48 AM, John Larkin wrote:
> On Wed, 01 Aug 2012 05:58:55 +1000, Don McKenzie <5...@2.5A> wrote:
>
>>
>> Indian power loss, leakage?
>>
>> How could India have power problems?
>>
>> Check out the perfect wiring:
>> http://www.photopumpkin.com/photo-blog/perfect-wiring-up-india/
>>
>> Don...
>
> Yikes!
>
> I once designed an electric meter for use in India, and it had
> extensive anti-tamper hooks. Seems like a lot of power is stolen.

Spillage as opposed to leakage. :-)

Stonethrower

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Jul 31, 2012, 5:24:27 PM7/31/12
to
> Indian power loss, leakage?
> How could India have power problems?
Due to cheap work force, it's cheaper/easier to add new wires than to
untangle existing ones.

StoneThrower
www.dgmicrosys.com

John Larkin

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Jul 31, 2012, 7:31:45 PM7/31/12
to
I get the impression that a lot of those wires are added by the
customers.

I read somewhere that maybe 10% of the power in New York City was
stolen. People drill through walls to tap into their neighbors
circuits, often in both directions.

Rheilly Phoull

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Jul 31, 2012, 7:42:06 PM7/31/12
to
On 1/08/2012 3:58 AM, Don McKenzie wrote:
>
> Indian power loss, leakage?
>
> How could India have power problems?
>
> Check out the perfect wiring:
> http://www.photopumpkin.com/photo-blog/perfect-wiring-up-india/
>
> Don...
>

That's disgusting !! You would think they could keep those poles painted
to maintain a sense of order.

Rheilly P

Jeff Liebermann

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Jul 31, 2012, 7:44:22 PM7/31/12
to
On Wed, 01 Aug 2012 05:58:55 +1000, Don McKenzie <5...@2.5A> wrote:

>Check out the perfect wiring:
>http://www.photopumpkin.com/photo-blog/perfect-wiring-up-india/

The bigger the mess, the better it works.

Beirut Lebanon telco switch and wiring.
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/Beirut-Telco/>
Note how carefully each wire is labeled.

One of my customers at his best:
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/drivel/slides/mess01.html>

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com je...@cruzio.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz

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Jul 31, 2012, 8:11:53 PM7/31/12
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On Tue, 31 Jul 2012 16:31:45 -0700, John Larkin
<jla...@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 31 Jul 2012 23:24:27 +0200, "Stonethrower"
><digi_64-public[removeme]@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>> Indian power loss, leakage?
>>> How could India have power problems?
>>Due to cheap work force, it's cheaper/easier to add new wires than to
>>untangle existing ones.
>>
>>StoneThrower
>>www.dgmicrosys.com
>
>I get the impression that a lot of those wires are added by the
>customers.
>
>I read somewhere that maybe 10% of the power in New York City was
>stolen. People drill through walls to tap into their neighbors
>circuits, often in both directions.

Sounds like green energy to me. Someone should suggest it to Obama.

dagmarg...@yahoo.com

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Jul 31, 2012, 8:58:51 PM7/31/12
to
On Jul 31, 3:58 pm, Don McKenzie <5...@2.5A> wrote:
> Indian power loss, leakage?
>
> How could India have power problems?
>
> Check out the perfect wiring:http://www.photopumpkin.com/photo-blog/perfect-wiring-up-india/
>
> Don...

FWIW, AVG reports a JavaScript exploit threat when loading that page.

--
Cheers,
James Arthur

Michael A. Terrell

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Jul 31, 2012, 9:42:02 PM7/31/12
to

Don McKenzie wrote:
>
> Indian power loss, leakage?
>
> How could India have power problems?
>
> Check out the perfect wiring:
> http://www.photopumpkin.com/photo-blog/perfect-wiring-up-india/


Now we know where Maynard learned to do electrical inspections.

Michael A. Terrell

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Jul 31, 2012, 9:53:12 PM7/31/12
to

Don McKenzie wrote:
>
> Indian power loss, leakage?
>
> How could India have power problems?
>
> Check out the perfect wiring:
> http://www.photopumpkin.com/photo-blog/perfect-wiring-up-india/


So, 99% of call centers are down? ;-)


I haven't had one telemarketer call since that power failure.

keithr0

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Jul 31, 2012, 9:56:51 PM7/31/12
to
On 1/08/2012 9:44 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Wed, 01 Aug 2012 05:58:55 +1000, Don McKenzie<5...@2.5A> wrote:
>
>> Check out the perfect wiring:
>> http://www.photopumpkin.com/photo-blog/perfect-wiring-up-india/
>
> The bigger the mess, the better it works.
>
> Beirut Lebanon telco switch and wiring.
> <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/Beirut-Telco/>
> Note how carefully each wire is labeled.
>
> One of my customers at his best:
> <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/drivel/slides/mess01.html>
>
I read that during WWII the British secret service in Turkey attempted
to tap the German embassy phone, but gave because they simply couldn't
find the appropriate connections in the mess of cables.

Michael A. Terrell

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Jul 31, 2012, 9:59:12 PM7/31/12
to

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>
> On Wed, 01 Aug 2012 05:58:55 +1000, Don McKenzie <5...@2.5A> wrote:
>
> >Check out the perfect wiring:
> >http://www.photopumpkin.com/photo-blog/perfect-wiring-up-india/
>
> The bigger the mess, the better it works.
>
> Beirut Lebanon telco switch and wiring.
> <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/Beirut-Telco/>
> Note how carefully each wire is labeled.


Who let the cat out of the bag? ;-)

Don McKenzie

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Jul 31, 2012, 10:10:20 PM7/31/12
to
Had the same thought Michael. I may have serious withdrawal symptoms, if it keeps up for too long!

Sylvia Else

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Aug 1, 2012, 12:10:07 AM8/1/12
to
On 1/08/2012 9:31 AM, John Larkin wrote:
> On Tue, 31 Jul 2012 23:24:27 +0200, "Stonethrower"
> <digi_64-public[removeme]@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>> Indian power loss, leakage?
>>> How could India have power problems?
>> Due to cheap work force, it's cheaper/easier to add new wires than to
>> untangle existing ones.
>>
>> StoneThrower
>> www.dgmicrosys.com
>
> I get the impression that a lot of those wires are added by the
> customers.

"Customers" ?

Sylvia.

Michael A. Terrell

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Aug 1, 2012, 1:19:24 AM8/1/12
to

Don McKenzie wrote:
>
> On 01-Aug-12 11:53 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
> >
> > Don McKenzie wrote:
> >>
> >> Indian power loss, leakage?
> >>
> >> How could India have power problems?
> >>
> >> Check out the perfect wiring:
> >> http://www.photopumpkin.com/photo-blog/perfect-wiring-up-india/
> >
> >
> > So, 99% of call centers are down? ;-)
> >
> >
> > I haven't had one telemarketer call since that power failure.
>
> Had the same thought Michael. I may have serious withdrawal symptoms, if it keeps up for too long!



I can't say that I'll ever miss calls from the con artists from
'Credit Card Services'. I've been on the 'Do Not Call' list since it
first came out, but a lot of greedy bastards ignore the laws. Some have
called so may times that I curse them out for waking me up. One that
really pissed me off called themselves 'Air Force One' heating and air
conditioning.

swanny

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Aug 1, 2012, 2:46:57 AM8/1/12
to
On 1/08/2012 12:10 PM, Don McKenzie wrote:
> On 01-Aug-12 11:53 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>>
>> Don McKenzie wrote:
>>>
>>> Indian power loss, leakage?
>>>
>>> How could India have power problems?
>>>
>>> Check out the perfect wiring:
>>> http://www.photopumpkin.com/photo-blog/perfect-wiring-up-india/
>>
>>
>> So, 99% of call centers are down? ;-)
>>
>>
>> I haven't had one telemarketer call since that power failure.
>
> Had the same thought Michael. I may have serious withdrawal symptoms, if
> it keeps up for too long!

We can only hope that it lasts indefinitely.
Has been great without those stupid scammers calling 5 times every day.


k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz

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Aug 1, 2012, 11:26:38 AM8/1/12
to
On Wed, 01 Aug 2012 14:10:07 +1000, Sylvia Else <syl...@not.here.invalid>
wrote:
Evidently they haven't heard of a demark box. ;-)

Jeff Liebermann

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Aug 1, 2012, 12:58:55 PM8/1/12
to
On Wed, 01 Aug 2012 11:56:51 +1000, keithr0 <us...@account.invalid>
wrote:
Highly likely. However, during that time, pole to pole wiring was
arranged so that long parallel wire runs were reduced by swapping
wires between poles (wire transposition).
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transposition_(telecommunications)>
This was to reduce crosstalk between wires. It looked like messy
wiring, but was intentional. Maybe they just continued the practice
inside the embassy.

During the 1980's, most of the phone systems I was working with were
switching from 25 pair bundles and "push button" phones, to electronic
phone systems that ran on anywhere between 2 to 8 wires. Rather than
remove the 25 pair cables from the overhead, new wires were simply
added. When we had an earthquake in 1989, the weight of all the cable
in the suspended ceiling caused several of them to collapse. At one
office, I hauled off 3 pickup truck loads to the recyclers.

The same problem occurs in the phone rooms. As tenants at an office
building move in and out, the various telco wiring installers simply
add wires, and leave the unused wires in place. Here's one that I
cleaned up, before and after.
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/drivel/slides/Phone_Room_Before.html>
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/drivel/slides/Phone%20Room%20After.html>

--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

lang...@fonz.dk

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Aug 1, 2012, 1:20:27 PM8/1/12
to
On 1 Aug., 01:44, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 01 Aug 2012 05:58:55 +1000, Don McKenzie <5...@2.5A> wrote:
> >Check out the perfect wiring:
> >http://www.photopumpkin.com/photo-blog/perfect-wiring-up-india/
>
> The bigger the mess, the better it works.
>
> Beirut Lebanon telco switch and wiring.
> <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/Beirut-Telco/>
> Note how carefully each wire is labeled.
>
> One of my customers at his best:
> <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/drivel/slides/mess01.html>
>
this looks much more organised :)

http://img.chan4chan.com/img/2009-12-13/1260743866301.gif
http://img.chan4chan.com/img/2009-02-26/82895743.jpg

-Lasse

Jon Elson

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Aug 1, 2012, 5:16:00 PM8/1/12
to
BOY! Talk about silver linings!

Jon

Jeff Liebermann

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Aug 1, 2012, 6:45:39 PM8/1/12
to
On Wed, 01 Aug 2012 05:58:55 +1000, Don McKenzie <5...@2.5A> wrote:

>Check out the perfect wiring:
>http://www.photopumpkin.com/photo-blog/perfect-wiring-up-india/
>Don...

More power line photos from India:
<http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2012/07/20120731-india-power-lines.jpg.492x0_q85_crop-smart.jpg>
<http://images.nationalgeographic.com/wpf/media-live/photos/000/575/cache/india-power-outage-tangled_57535_600x450.jpg>
<http://www.bellenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/A-massive-power-outage-has-caused-disruption-across-northern-India-including-in-the-capital-Delhi-350x239.jpg>
<http://media.sbs.com.au/news/thm/articlemain/9490_india-getty-electricity-648.jpg>
<http://asiancorrespondent.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/power-lines-Delhi-India-621x464.jpg>
<http://www.straitstimes.com/sites/straitstimes.com/files/power4e.jpg>
<http://cdn.newsday.com/polopoly_fs/1.3874415.1343815373!/httpImage/image.JPG_gen/derivatives/display_600/image.JPG>
<http://gigaom2.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/powerlines2.jpg>
<http://gigaom.com/cleantech/photos-the-wild-power-grid-of-old-delhi/>
<http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41438000/jpg/_41438778_pylon_bbc203.jpg>
<http://media.photobucket.com/image/recent/FulThrotl/IndiaPower01.jpg>
<http://www.loupiote.com/photos/3700155454.shtml>

Jeff Liebermann

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Aug 1, 2012, 6:58:24 PM8/1/12
to
On Wed, 01 Aug 2012 15:45:39 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:
(...)

One more that's too strange to ignore:
<http://www.partyvibe.com/forums/attachments/jokes-humour/4397d1269813746-electrical-safety-india-electrical-safety.jpg>

Don McKenzie

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Aug 1, 2012, 7:28:22 PM8/1/12
to

> One more that's too strange to ignore:
> <http://www.partyvibe.com/forums/attachments/jokes-humour/4397d1269813746-electrical-safety-india-electrical-safety.jpg>

Notice the barbed wire at the bottom of the installation. For the protection of the public no doubt. :-)

Seems they have it all covered.

hamilton

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Aug 1, 2012, 8:05:51 PM8/1/12
to
On 8/1/2012 5:28 PM, Don McKenzie wrote:
>
>> One more that's too strange to ignore:
>> <http://www.partyvibe.com/forums/attachments/jokes-humour/4397d1269813746-electrical-safety-india-electrical-safety.jpg>
>>
>
> Notice the barbed wire at the bottom of the installation. For the
> protection of the public no doubt. :-)
>
> Seems they have it all covered.
>
> Don...
>
>
I guess with the number of people they have in that country, losing a
few is not a real problem.

Go Figure

swanny

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Aug 1, 2012, 8:21:35 PM8/1/12
to
When I was over there 20 or so years ago there was a train out of Delhi
that ran over a dozen people. The train driver was rewarded for
continuing the journey so as not to cause inconvenience or delays to the
passengers.

F Murtz

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Aug 1, 2012, 8:41:45 PM8/1/12
to
Don McKenzie wrote:
>
>> One more that's too strange to ignore:
>> <http://www.partyvibe.com/forums/attachments/jokes-humour/4397d1269813746-electrical-safety-india-electrical-safety.jpg>
>>
>
> Notice the barbed wire at the bottom of the installation. For the
> protection of the public no doubt. :-)
>
> Seems they have it all covered.
>
> Don...
>
>

And here I am worried about my working 240 volt sewing machine motor.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/c-Q1Du5T6gSgIiyc4aB33dNxAcbVLP5-X4AzCQ7sdbg?feat=directlink

who where

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Aug 1, 2012, 9:26:01 PM8/1/12
to
On Wed, 01 Aug 2012 15:58:24 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Wed, 01 Aug 2012 15:45:39 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
>wrote:
>(...)
>
>One more that's too strange to ignore:
><http://www.partyvibe.com/forums/attachments/jokes-humour/4397d1269813746-electrical-safety-india-electrical-safety.jpg>

Sound ergonomics - the fuses? mounted at a convenient work height.

Jeff Liebermann

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Aug 1, 2012, 9:35:39 PM8/1/12
to
On Thu, 02 Aug 2012 09:28:22 +1000, Don McKenzie <5...@2.5A> wrote:

>> One more that's too strange to ignore:
>> <http://www.partyvibe.com/forums/attachments/jokes-humour/4397d1269813746-electrical-safety-india-electrical-safety.jpg>
>
>Notice the barbed wire at the bottom of the installation. For the protection of the public no doubt. :-)
>Seems they have it all covered.

Also notice that the four transfomers are still attached to the dolly
and steel wheels. Probably a "temporary" installation.

The ladder and platform near the left leg has my puzzled. It has no
obvious purpose. Maybe a charging stand for cell phones?

Don Kuenz

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Aug 1, 2012, 9:42:35 PM8/1/12
to
In sci.electronics.design Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> The same problem occurs in the phone rooms. As tenants at an office
> building move in and out, the various telco wiring installers simply
> add wires, and leave the unused wires in place. Here's one that I
> cleaned up, before and after.
> <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/drivel/slides/Phone_Room_Before.html>

The "before" picture actually looks fairly tidy to me.

My eyes first saw the inside of a phone closet around the time that
Berners-Lee invented the web page. The phone closet was actually a
reimagineered clothes closet with two sliding doors, one on the left,
and one on the right. Restricted physical access enabled a technician
to work on only one side at at a time. A technician took his best
"photographic memory" of a given side before sliding a door closed to
walk over and access the opposite side.

Morons had stuffed the closet full of all manner of stuff. Lots of
25 pair, 66 blocks, twisted pair, phone line, coax, twinax, FM radios,
modems, routers, electrical cables, you name it. But relatively little
Cat5. The Cat5 came later.

At the time it seemed reasonable that simple bad luck dealt me such a
mess the first time out. But the next demarc, and the next, and the
next, *all* looked just as bad. Almost two decades later my string of
bad luck continues unabated...

OK. Surely the pros at my local telco CO *know* how keep things tidy?

No such luck. An insider tells me that it looks like someone armed a
barrel of chimpanzees with wire wrap guns then turned them loose to
do their worst.

"Mine's not to reason why, but to do or die." - telco employee.

--
Don Kuenz

Martin Riddle

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Aug 1, 2012, 9:52:50 PM8/1/12
to

"Don McKenzie" <5...@2.5A> wrote in message
news:a7qutu...@mid.individual.net...
> On 01-Aug-12 6:48 AM, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Wed, 01 Aug 2012 05:58:55 +1000, Don McKenzie <5...@2.5A> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Indian power loss, leakage?
>>>
>>> How could India have power problems?
>>>
>>> Check out the perfect wiring:
>>> http://www.photopumpkin.com/photo-blog/perfect-wiring-up-india/
>>>
>>> Don...
>>
>> Yikes!
>>
>> I once designed an electric meter for use in India, and it had
>> extensive anti-tamper hooks. Seems like a lot of power is stolen.
>
> Spillage as opposed to leakage. :-)
>
> Don...
>

They actually tie stones to the end of wires and then launch them over
the transmission lines.
Hopefully they are not HV lines and presto, free electricity.

Cheers



Charlie E.

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Aug 1, 2012, 10:01:33 PM8/1/12
to
On Wed, 01 Aug 2012 20:42:35 -0500, Don Kuenz <gar...@crcomp.net>
wrote:
Then you have a poorly trained CO crew! My frame was pretty neat and
tidy. You always pulled the old jumper out when you replaced one. You
always dressed your cables and your jumpers. New jumpers were always
pulled in directly, not under or over adjacent pairs, etc.

Running a CO frame all by yourself takes a whole new level of skill!

Charlie

Jeff Liebermann

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Aug 1, 2012, 10:28:12 PM8/1/12
to
On Wed, 01 Aug 2012 20:42:35 -0500, Don Kuenz <gar...@crcomp.net>
wrote:

>In sci.electronics.design Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
>> The same problem occurs in the phone rooms. As tenants at an office
>> building move in and out, the various telco wiring installers simply
>> add wires, and leave the unused wires in place. Here's one that I
>> cleaned up, before and after.
>> <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/drivel/slides/Phone_Room_Before.html>
>
>The "before" picture actually looks fairly tidy to me.

The top half of the photo is missing and looks much like the lower
half, wires everywhere. I couldn't take a single photo of the entire
mess because it was in a hallway, and I couldn't back up far enough
with my camera. There are two light green terminal boxes in the
photo. The lower one was a giant Gordian Knot of station wire. It
wasn't as bad as some of the nightmare photos I've seen on the web,
but bad enough that it took me 4 full days to clean it up.

>Restricted physical access enabled a technician
>to work on only one side at at a time. A technician took his best
>"photographic memory" of a given side before sliding a door closed to
>walk over and access the opposite side.

I worked on one of those. There was no way to get both opposing doors
open at the same time. So, I just removed both doors from their
hinges. It was still a problem because the building bathrooms were
next to the phone closets, which prevented me from making my usual
mess in front of the doorways.

Unfortunately, someone called the building manager, who called the
owner, who called my primary contractor, who called the
sub-contractor, who eventually called me. After processing the story
through 4 people, it came out that I was allegedly throwing the doors
into the dumpster, and ripping out fists full of wire from the phone
closets.

>Morons had stuffed the closet full of all manner of stuff. Lots of
>25 pair, 66 blocks, twisted pair, phone line, coax, twinax, FM radios,
>modems, routers, electrical cables, you name it. But relatively little
>Cat5. The Cat5 came later.

Sounds a bit more than what I usually find. My office building phone
closet is shared with a office cleaning service that uses the room to
store lawn mowers, weed whackers, pressure washers, air compressors,
hand tools etc. I cleverly installed a power strip at the optimum
height for maximum impact by the lawn mower. Of course, I get the
call from the manager that the internet is down, only when I'm 50+
miles away, or on a day off. I should move it but every other
location is monopolized by Type 66 blocks, 110 blocks, and several
dead Meridian phone systems that I suspect isn't being used, but have
never bothered to check. My theory is that if I fix the obvious, the
landlord won't pay me. However, if I wait for the complaints to
accumulate, he'll pay me to make it right.

>At the time it seemed reasonable that simple bad luck dealt me such a
>mess the first time out. But the next demarc, and the next, and the
>next, *all* looked just as bad. Almost two decades later my string of
>bad luck continues unabated...

That should be a clue. Proper wiring is a lost art. Those that
learned it from Ma Bell in the 1960's know how to do it right. After
about 1990, nobody seems to be taking the time to do neat work or even
to label their work.
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/drivel/slides/Comrade-Ma-Bell-01.html>

Converted Victorian office building MPOE. It's about 12 ft off the
ground. I had to get a longer ladder.
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/drivel/slides/SCZ%20Victorian%20wiring%20mess.html>
This is typical.

>OK. Surely the pros at my local telco CO *know* how keep things tidy?

Nope. They're the one's that usually make the mess. However, I don't
blame them. They have a fixed amount of time allocated to do the job.
That usually doesn't include "reinforcing" the cabling. So, they do
it quickly and badly, hoping that the next installer will fix it for
them. Of course, that never happens.

>No such luck. An insider tells me that it looks like someone armed a
>barrel of chimpanzees with wire wrap guns then turned them loose to
>do their worst.
>
>"Mine's not to reason why, but to do or die." - telco employee.

Ask not for whom the phone bell tolls, for it tolls for thee.
(Appologies to John Donne).

Don Kuenz

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Aug 2, 2012, 12:09:57 AM8/2/12
to
In sci.electronics.design Charlie E. <edmo...@ieee.org> wrote:
> My frame was pretty neat and
> tidy. You always pulled the old jumper out when you replaced one. You
> always dressed your cables and your jumpers. New jumpers were always
> pulled in directly, not under or over adjacent pairs, etc.

In all honesty, premise wiring keeps getting better all the time (as
the song goes). Phone and data now both use Cat5, 5e, or 6 and get
terminated in a tidy patch panel. Demarcs now come with RJ45 ports.

> Running a CO frame all by yourself takes a whole new level of skill!

The closest I ever got to a CO frame was in the basement of a 1960s
era, six story office building. A timeless technological work of art
to those with engineering eyes.

--
Don Kuenz

Paul

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Aug 2, 2012, 3:32:17 AM8/2/12
to
In article <2012...@crcomp.net>, gar...@crcomp.net says...
>
> In sci.electronics.design Charlie E. <edmo...@ieee.org> wrote:
> > My frame was pretty neat and
> > tidy. You always pulled the old jumper out when you replaced one. You
> > always dressed your cables and your jumpers. New jumpers were always
> > pulled in directly, not under or over adjacent pairs, etc.
>
> In all honesty, premise wiring keeps getting better all the time (as
> the song goes). Phone and data now both use Cat5, 5e, or 6 and get
> terminated in a tidy patch panel. Demarcs now come with RJ45 ports.

For a new building.. Any buidling with any age will have at least 4
diferent sets of phones wires, old RS232 cabling, coax network, Cat3,
maybe Cat4 and now Cat 5 being replaced with Cat 6 possibly Cat 7.
You wont notice all the cables as occasionaly they would have been
painted over or new trunking runs put in leaving the old there as well.

> > Running a CO frame all by yourself takes a whole new level of skill!
>
> The closest I ever got to a CO frame was in the basement of a 1960s
> era, six story office building. A timeless technological work of art
> to those with engineering eyes.



--
Paul Carpenter | pa...@pcserviceselectronics.co.uk
<http://www.pcserviceselectronics.co.uk/> PC Services
<http://www.pcserviceselectronics.co.uk/fonts/> Timing Diagram Font
<http://www.gnuh8.org.uk/> GNU H8 - compiler & Renesas H8/H8S/H8 Tiny
<http://www.badweb.org.uk/> For those web sites you hate

josephkk

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Aug 2, 2012, 3:40:24 AM8/2/12
to
No one, the bag had disintegrated long ago. Just nobody cared (including
the long ago loosed cats).

?-)

upsid...@downunder.com

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Aug 2, 2012, 4:00:21 AM8/2/12
to
On Wed, 01 Aug 2012 18:35:39 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Thu, 02 Aug 2012 09:28:22 +1000, Don McKenzie <5...@2.5A> wrote:
>
>>> One more that's too strange to ignore:
>>> <http://www.partyvibe.com/forums/attachments/jokes-humour/4397d1269813746-electrical-safety-india-electrical-safety.jpg>
>>
>>Notice the barbed wire at the bottom of the installation. For the protection of the public no doubt. :-)
>>Seems they have it all covered.
>
>Also notice that the four transfomers are still attached to the dolly
>and steel wheels. Probably a "temporary" installation.

Those four units appear to be radiators for the oil cooling system.
Otherwise, it looks like an ordinary three phase transformer, which
has been installed exceptionally low. The four 3 phase low voltage
cables from the transformer are intended for a much higher transformer
mounting, since cables are zig-zagging across the system, before
entering the fuses from below.

At least there is some sense in the installation since the customer
wires are installed after the fuses.

However, I do not see how the secondary neutral is connected, assuming
240/415 V (British legacy) distribution system, or perhaps this is 240
V delta only distribution (no neutral)

Jeff Liebermann

unread,
Aug 2, 2012, 11:32:49 AM8/2/12
to
On Thu, 02 Aug 2012 11:00:21 +0300, upsid...@downunder.com wrote:

>On Wed, 01 Aug 2012 18:35:39 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 02 Aug 2012 09:28:22 +1000, Don McKenzie <5...@2.5A> wrote:
>>
>>>> One more that's too strange to ignore:
>>>> <http://www.partyvibe.com/forums/attachments/jokes-humour/4397d1269813746-electrical-safety-india-electrical-safety.jpg>
>>>
>>>Notice the barbed wire at the bottom of the installation. For the protection of the public no doubt. :-)
>>>Seems they have it all covered.
>>
>>Also notice that the four transfomers are still attached to the dolly
>>and steel wheels. Probably a "temporary" installation.
>
>Those four units appear to be radiators for the oil cooling system.
>Otherwise, it looks like an ordinary three phase transformer, which
>has been installed exceptionally low. The four 3 phase low voltage
>cables from the transformer are intended for a much higher transformer
>mounting, since cables are zig-zagging across the system, before
>entering the fuses from below.

Agreed. It's one transformer. I assumed that 12 cables, coming out
of 4 cans, would make 4 transformers. However, following the cables
from the line of fuses, some of them go up the I-beams to probably
some additional transformers at the top of the I-beams, and out of the
picture.

>At least there is some sense in the installation since the customer
>wires are installed after the fuses.
>
>However, I do not see how the secondary neutral is connected, assuming
>240/415 V (British legacy) distribution system, or perhaps this is 240
>V delta only distribution (no neutral)

Yep. I tried to work it out from the color code (red-yel-blu) which I
think (not sure) defines a delta secondary. Wye would require a 4th
neutral wire.

Michael A. Terrell

unread,
Aug 2, 2012, 8:32:07 PM8/2/12
to
So, no one bothered to clip their nails, and they clawed their way
out? ;-)

Michael A. Terrell

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Aug 2, 2012, 8:34:04 PM8/2/12
to
Not that bad, if the installation is documented. I've seen worse in
TV stations.

Michael A. Terrell

unread,
Aug 2, 2012, 8:37:04 PM8/2/12
to

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>
> On Wed, 01 Aug 2012 15:45:39 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
> wrote:
> (...)
>
> One more that's too strange to ignore:
> <http://www.partyvibe.com/forums/attachments/jokes-humour/4397d1269813746-electrical-safety-india-electrical-safety.jpg>


No repeat offenders for those committing stupid acts.

Michael A. Terrell

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Aug 2, 2012, 8:37:45 PM8/2/12
to

Don McKenzie wrote:
>
> > One more that's too strange to ignore:
> > <http://www.partyvibe.com/forums/attachments/jokes-humour/4397d1269813746-electrical-safety-india-electrical-safety.jpg>
>
> Notice the barbed wire at the bottom of the installation. For the protection of the public no doubt. :-)
>
> Seems they have it all covered.


That's the ground wire. ;-)

tm

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Aug 2, 2012, 9:20:30 PM8/2/12
to

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:CJednQIsV7DGgIbN...@earthlink.com...
Are you sure? It could be the neutral. :)

Is that thing in the left background a step ladder made from EMT?

Jim Stewart

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Aug 2, 2012, 9:29:17 PM8/2/12
to
Don McKenzie wrote:
>
> Indian power loss, leakage?
>
> How could India have power problems?
>
> Check out the perfect wiring:
> http://www.photopumpkin.com/photo-blog/perfect-wiring-up-india/

Years ago I had a similar photo, but with
a barefoot man up in the wiring, doing some
splicing. I put a large caption on it saying...
"things could be worse".

Michael A. Terrell

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Aug 2, 2012, 10:53:18 PM8/2/12
to
I thought they filed everything out of stainless steel, by hand in
India? ;-)

Jim Stewart

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Aug 14, 2012, 5:17:20 PM8/14/12
to
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Wed, 01 Aug 2012 15:45:39 -0700, Jeff Liebermann<je...@cruzio.com>
> wrote:
> (...)
>
> One more that's too strange to ignore:
> <http://www.partyvibe.com/forums/attachments/jokes-humour/4397d1269813746-electrical-safety-india-electrical-safety.jpg>

At least the phases are identified (:

hamilton

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Aug 14, 2012, 5:29:53 PM8/14/12
to
How would like to die today, Phase A, Phase B or Phase c.


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