Recommendations For A Phono Preamp

[Abby]

Hi,

Could I get recommendations for a phono preamp? I will be digitizing my LP
collection. I posted a related question before and got some good
suggestions on process. Either a preamp with equalization or a linear
preamp and do the equalization with software. The budget is about $200.

Thanks,
Gary

[Jamie]

This all depends on the type of cartridge you have on the turn table.

Jamie

[Paul Hovnanian P.E.]

http://www.amazon.com/ART-USB-Phono-Plus-Interface/dp/B000BBGCCI

--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:Pa...@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
professor; n, One who talks in someone else's sleep.

[Dave Platt]

I would not use the "linear preamp with software equalization" method
myself. It'll be tricky to capture the full dynamic range of a good
LP, without running the risk of clipping the loud parts at one end of
the frequency range, or having the quiet parts at the other end of the
frequency range sink down too low towards the noise. It's probably
possible to do it this way and get decent results, but I suspect that
setting the system gain may be tricky, and applying the RIAA
equalization digitally might require using 24- or 32-bit math. It's
best, I think, to apply the RIAA equalization electronically, before
digitizing.

I don't have a specific recommendation for a preamp (I bought my last
one decades ago and it's still going strong) but I see that
www.needledoctor.com has numerous models available in your price
range... some with a USB "sound card" built right in. Prices range
from cheap to astronomical, and I wouldn't bet that high price is
necessarily any indication of improved performance, at least not up in
the nosebleed price ranges :-)

If you're willing to think outside the box a bit... if you look around
at local thift and used-electronics stores, CraigsList, electronics-
and-ham-oriented flea markets and swap meets, etc., I'd be shocked if
you can't find a very capable stereo receiver, or preamp (with phono
stage) for well under $200 which will do the job for you just fine.
This approach might not work if you have (e.g.) a low-output moving
coil cartridge in your turntable, but if you have anything along the
lines of a mid-range moving-coil or moving-iron cartridge you'd
probably find that an older receiver's phono section is quite adequate
for the job.

--
Dave Platt <dpl...@radagast.org> AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

[Abby]

> "Jamie" wrote in message news:c8S0s.911$wr2...@newsfe08.iad...

I should have added the cartridge is a good quality moving magnet. The
sound card is a HT Claro+ 7.1 that is 24 bit, 192 KHz.

Gary

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 2 Sep 2012 23:17:11 -0400, "Abby" <abby...@charter.net>
wrote:

>I should have added the cartridge is a good quality moving magnet. The
>sound card is a HT Claro+ 7.1 that is 24 bit, 192 KHz.
>Gary

Your sound card is better than most of those found in USB phono amps.
No need to digitize inside the phono amp.

I have one of these (on a rather vintage Sony PS-X60 turntable):
<http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/PP400.aspx>
<http://www.behringer.com/assets/PP400_P0492_M_EN.pdf>
<http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-PP400-Ultra-Compact-Phono-Preamp/dp/B000H2BC4E/ref=pd_cp_pc_3>
Make sure you ground the case to the turntable, not the computer.

This looks similar, with more detailed specs:
<http://www.pyleaudio.com/sku/PP444/Ultra-Compact-Phono-Turntable-Preamp>
<http://www.amazon.com/PYLE-PRO-PP444-Compact-Turntable-Preamp/dp/B004HJ1TTQ>


--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Sun, 2 Sep 2012 13:35:08 -0400) it happened "Abby"
<abby...@charter.net> wrote in
<l_udnbjhQNq9Xt7N...@supernews.com>:

Ferry Lon Taim Ago Dit Tat Wit Too Transitors

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Sun, 2 Sep 2012 23:17:11 -0400) it happened "Abby"
<abby...@charter.net> wrote in
<3sOdnYOmm6KkvNnN...@supernews.com>:

192 kHz is ptobabaly not enough for true HipeFi


>Gary
>
>

[Phil Allison]

"Jan Panteltje"

> 192 kHz is ptobabaly not enough for true HipeFi

** HipeFi ??

Same as Hype and HiFi ?



... Phil

[Gib Bogle]

On 3/09/2012 4:27 p.m., Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Sun, 2 Sep 2012 23:17:11 -0400, "Abby" <abby...@charter.net>
> wrote:
>
>> I should have added the cartridge is a good quality moving magnet. The
>> sound card is a HT Claro+ 7.1 that is 24 bit, 192 KHz.
>> Gary
>
> Your sound card is better than most of those found in USB phono amps.
> No need to digitize inside the phono amp.
>
> I have one of these (on a rather vintage Sony PS-X60 turntable):
> <http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/PP400.aspx>
> <http://www.behringer.com/assets/PP400_P0492_M_EN.pdf>
> <http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-PP400-Ultra-Compact-Phono-Preamp/dp/B000H2BC4E/ref=pd_cp_pc_3>
> Make sure you ground the case to the turntable, not the computer.
>
> This looks similar, with more detailed specs:
> <http://www.pyleaudio.com/sku/PP444/Ultra-Compact-Phono-Turntable-Preamp>
> <http://www.amazon.com/PYLE-PRO-PP444-Compact-Turntable-Preamp/dp/B004HJ1TTQ>
>
>

I made myself something very similar from kit, with low-noise op-amps.
Mine runs from a 9v battery.

[Tauno Voipio]

Nope. The thing that ruled was a 12AX7.

--

Tauno Voipio

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Mon, 03 Sep 2012 15:51:20 +0300) it happened Tauno Voipio
<tauno....@notused.fi.invalid> wrote in <k22948$mo7$1...@dont-email.me>:

Was it not only crystal (piezo) cartridges at first,
but indeed I had a magnetic one in the fifties too.
Mono, with a needle.
Speed control was by centrifugal weights...

But then crystal took over (and stereo).
Those has enough signal for the normal toob input.
Then teh mroe sofistcated moving magnet stereos came, that needed a preamp.
But hey, you are right, toobs are the best for Hipe Fidility applicatons
the warm reds cannot be matched by any cold silicon.

[qrk]

On Sun, 2 Sep 2012 13:35:08 -0400, "Abby" <abby...@charter.net>
wrote:

For $20, you can make your own preamp. Add $30 more for a housing and
connectors. The National Semiconductor Audio Handbook has a schematic
of a RIAA preamp.

[Jim Thompson]

I particularly enjoyed the "Floobydust" Chapter ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

[whit3rd]

On Monday, September 3, 2012 12:22:56 PM UTC-7, qrk wrote:
> On Sun, 2 Sep 2012 13:35:08 -0400, "Abby" <abby...@charter.net>

> >Could I get recommendations for a phono preamp?

> For $20, you can make your own preamp. Add $30 more for a housing and
>
> connectors. The National Semiconductor Audio Handbook has a schematic
>
> of a RIAA preamp.

National Semiconductor's AN-32 has a pretty good two-FET design, and the IC
version in AN-346 is easy enough. That $20 should cover it handily.

<http://www.ti.com/litv/pdf/snoa620>
and
<http://www.ti.com/litv/pdf/snoa586c>

are the application notes in question... I don't like the TI way of referencing 'em,
though.

[Phil Hobbs]

Or rather a 7023 over there, though, right?

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

(who used to own a bunch of tubes that were marked "12AX7A/7023A", and
were used for thermocouple vacuum gauge preamps)


--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

[Jim Thompson]

On Mon, 03 Sep 2012 21:00:36 -0400, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:

>Tauno Voipio wrote:
>>
>> On 3.9.12 10:52 , Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> > On a sunny day (Sun, 2 Sep 2012 13:35:08 -0400) it happened "Abby"
>> > <abby...@charter.net> wrote in
>> > <l_udnbjhQNq9Xt7N...@supernews.com>:
>> >
>> >> Hi,
>> >>
>> >> Could I get recommendations for a phono preamp? I will be digitizing my LP
>> >> collection. I posted a related question before and got some good
>> >> suggestions on process. Either a preamp with equalization or a linear
>> >> preamp and do the equalization with software. The budget is about $200.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks,
>> >> Gary
>> >
>> > Ferry Lon Taim Ago Dit Tat Wit Too Transitors
>> >
>>
>> Nope. The thing that ruled was a 12AX7.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Tauno Voipio
>
>Or rather a 7023 over there, though, right?
>
>Cheers
>
>Phil Hobbs
>
>(who used to own a bunch of tubes that were marked "12AX7A/7023A", and
>were used for thermocouple vacuum gauge preamps)

ECC83/12AX7 or ECC82/12AU7... I remember them well :-)

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 3 Sep 2012 18:00:16 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>National Semiconductor's AN-32 has a pretty good two-FET design, and the IC
>version in AN-346 is easy enough. That $20 should cover it handily.
><http://www.ti.com/litv/pdf/snoa620>
>and
><http://www.ti.com/litv/pdf/snoa586c>
>are the application notes in question...

Both designs run on +/-15v power supplies. Not a big deal if you have
the right power supply handy, but not exactly what I would use in
todays low voltage single power supply world. Not coincidentally,
some of my older music black boxes run on 9VAC and use

If I add the cost of the required power supply:
<http://sound.westhost.com/project05.htm>
<http://sound.westhost.com/project05b.htm>
it's going to be quite a bit more than $20.

Note that you can buy a preamp for roughly the same price as the $20
estimated cost of construction:
<http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-PP400-Ultra-Compact-Phono-Preamp/dp/B000H2BC4E/ref=pd_cp_pc_3>
<http://www.amazon.com/PYLE-PRO-PP444-Compact-Turntable-Preamp/dp/B004HJ1TTQ>

>I don't like the TI way of referencing 'em,
>though.

TI seems to be trying to bury the National Semi name. To the victor
go the spoils, I guess. For $6.5 billion in cash, I guess they might
want to do that.

[Bill Sloman]

On Sep 3, 3:09 pm, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On a sunny day (Mon, 03 Sep 2012 15:51:20 +0300) it happened Tauno Voipio

> <tauno.voi...@notused.fi.invalid> wrote in <k22948$mo...@dont-email.me>:

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >On 3.9.12 10:52 , Jan Panteltje wrote:
> >> On a sunny day (Sun, 2 Sep 2012 13:35:08 -0400) it happened "Abby"

> >> <abbybr...@charter.net> wrote in
> >> <l_udnbjhQNq9Xt7NnZ2dnUVZ_jedn...@supernews.com>:

>
> >>> Hi,
>
> >>> Could I get recommendations for a phono preamp?  I will be digitizing my LP
> >>> collection.  I posted a related question before and got some good
> >>> suggestions on process.  Either a preamp with equalization or a linear
> >>> preamp and do the equalization with software. The budget is about $200.
>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Gary
>
> >> Ferry Lon Taim Ago Dit Tat Wit Too Transitors
>
> >Nope. The thing that ruled was a 12AX7.
>
> Was it not only crystal (piezo) cartridges at first,
> but indeed I had a magnetic one in the fifties too.
> Mono, with a needle.
> Speed control was by centrifugal weights...
>
> But then crystal took over (and stereo).
> Those has enough signal for the normal toob input.
> Then teh mroe sofistcated moving magnet stereos came, that needed a preamp.
> But hey, you are right, toobs are the best for Hipe Fidility applicatons
> the warm reds cannot be matched by any cold silicon.

The fidelity is rubbish, but the golden-eared boys do like adding even
order distortion to the sound that the musicians originally produced.

--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

[Michael A. Terrell]

Fred Abse wrote:

>
> On Mon, 03 Sep 2012 18:45:31 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:
>
> > ECC83/12AX7 or ECC82/12AU7... I remember them well :-)
>

> You forgot ECC81/12AT7 ;-)
>
> "A" versions were originally numbered like "7023" (special quality,
> ruggedized). Later, they changed the system so that an SQ ECC83 became
> E83CC.
>
> Horrible mish-mash numbering in Europe. Some manufacturers used US
> numbering (STC-Brimar), some used Pro-Electron numbering (Mullard,
> Philips, Valvo, Telefunken), some went their own way.
>
> A 6AM6 might be marked 6AM6, or EF91, or 8D3, or all three at once.
>
> Then there was the British military "CV" system...
>
> Beats me how the Allies won the war ;-)


They bought their electronics from the US. :)

[Paul Hovnanian P.E.]

Jan Panteltje wrote:

> But hey, you are right, toobs are the best for Hipe Fidility
> applicatons the warm reds cannot be matched by any cold silicon.

As long as we're recommending building one instead of purchasing something:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gl-QMuUQhVM

--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:Pa...@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------

On a clear disk, you can seek forever.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 03 Sep 2012 15:51:20 +0300, Tauno Voipio
<tauno....@notused.fi.invalid> wrote:
>Nope. The thing that ruled was a 12AX7.

Not for phone preamps:
<http://thetubestore.com/tungsol12ax7.html>
Note to audiophiles: These tubes are great for
linestage preamps, but generally not phono stages
where a very low noise floor is required.

I'm trying to recall what was the favored preamp tube. (Most of the
tube stuff I did was for RF). As I vaguely recall, my stash of 12AT7
tubes was pillaged by the office audiophile, so that must be the
favored tube. Yeah...
<http://www.stereophile.com/content/leben-rs-30eq-phono-preamplifier>
The Leben RS-30EQ phono preamplifier ($2695) incorporates
a pair of common dual-triode tubes (12AT7) for phono gain...

I guess transistors and IC's were a step in the wrong direction for
audio.

[Michael A. Terrell]

Fred Abse wrote:

> Basically what I was told by a guy who had been in the RAF. Recruited at
> the outbreak on the strength of his pre-war experience in civilian radio.
>
> "They were desperate to get people who knew about superhets. Up to 1939,
> all aircraft receivers were TRF. None of the RAF "Wireless Mechanics" had
> ever seen a superhet, and all the American equipment was being fitted to
> new aircraft."


And the birth of the 'Black Box Changers' :(


> He finished up in radar, when he let slip that he'd worked on early TV,
> and knew about multivibrators, blocking oscillators, thyratrons, and
> things.


I repaired some RADAR gear in the '70s, even though my MOS was depot
level TV broadcast equipment repair. The RADAR tech was talking down to
me, till I told him a RADAR system was just a stripped down TV set. No
Aural or Chroma circuits. ;-)

[Jim Thompson]

On Tue, 04 Sep 2012 11:24:09 -0700, "Paul Hovnanian P.E."
<pa...@hovnanian.com> wrote:

>Jan Panteltje wrote:
>
>> But hey, you are right, toobs are the best for Hipe Fidility
>> applicatons the warm reds cannot be matched by any cold silicon.
>
>As long as we're recommending building one instead of purchasing something:
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gl-QMuUQhVM

I've never understood the toooob fanatics and their "warm" sound.

I've played high school orchestra and band, and a free-lance jazz band
that did "hops" when I was a kid... I know what music should sound
like.

After I designed and built my first transistor amplifier I never
looked back.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Tue, 04 Sep 2012 11:24:09 -0700, "Paul Hovnanian P.E."
<pa...@hovnanian.com> wrote:

>Jan Panteltje wrote:
>
>> But hey, you are right, toobs are the best for Hipe Fidility
>> applicatons the warm reds cannot be matched by any cold silicon.
>
>As long as we're recommending building one instead of purchasing something:
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gl-QMuUQhVM

That's part one. Part 2 is at:
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9S5OwqOXen8>

[Paul Hovnanian P.E.]

Jim Thompson wrote:

> On Tue, 04 Sep 2012 11:24:09 -0700, "Paul Hovnanian P.E."
> <pa...@hovnanian.com> wrote:
>
>>Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>
>>> But hey, you are right, toobs are the best for Hipe Fidility
>>> applicatons the warm reds cannot be matched by any cold silicon.
>>
>>As long as we're recommending building one instead of purchasing
>>something:
>>
>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gl-QMuUQhVM
>
> I've never understood the toooob fanatics and their "warm" sound.
>
> I've played high school orchestra and band, and a free-lance jazz band
> that did "hops" when I was a kid... I know what music should sound
> like.
>
> After I designed and built my first transistor amplifier I never
> looked back.

Good question. Lots of money has been spent on 'fuzzboxes'. The even
harmonic distortion from intermediate stages is much more subtle than
outright clipping. And those sounds have their place on occasion. But Les
Paul's guitar work is more to my liking.

Old school guitar players used to pull one of the two tubes in a class B
output stage to get some really mean sounding buzz.

--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:Pa...@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------

Life is like a buffet. Its not very good but there's plenty of it.

[Jim Thompson]

On Tue, 04 Sep 2012 13:55:15 -0700, "Paul Hovnanian P.E."

<pa...@hovnanian.com> wrote:

>Jim Thompson wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 04 Sep 2012 11:24:09 -0700, "Paul Hovnanian P.E."
>> <pa...@hovnanian.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>
>>>> But hey, you are right, toobs are the best for Hipe Fidility
>>>> applicatons the warm reds cannot be matched by any cold silicon.
>>>
>>>As long as we're recommending building one instead of purchasing
>>>something:
>>>
>>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gl-QMuUQhVM
>>
>> I've never understood the toooob fanatics and their "warm" sound.
>>
>> I've played high school orchestra and band, and a free-lance jazz band
>> that did "hops" when I was a kid... I know what music should sound
>> like.
>>
>> After I designed and built my first transistor amplifier I never
>> looked back.
>
>Good question. Lots of money has been spent on 'fuzzboxes'. The even
>harmonic distortion from intermediate stages is much more subtle than
>outright clipping. And those sounds have their place on occasion. But Les
>Paul's guitar work is more to my liking.

Yep. I'm a Les Paul/Mary Ford fan.

>
>Old school guitar players used to pull one of the two tubes in a class B
>output stage to get some really mean sounding buzz.

Ugggh! Didn't that croak the output transformer?

[josephkk]

Ah Buzed Twee Ta Git Bessemer OPut Pedance.

?-)