Productivity
Jim Thompson
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
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America: Land of the Free, Because of the Brave
Eeyore
Jim Thompson wrote:
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6976084.stm
>
> ...Jim Thompson
" the US figure is boosted by Americans working more hours per year than
workers in most developed countries."
Bob
"Workers in the US are still more productive per person than any
others in the world, the International Labour Organisation (ILO) says
in a report.
In 2006 each US worker produced $63,885 (£31,651) of wealth, well
ahead of second placed Ireland at $55,986. "
Hmm, I'm guessing that the report these figures came from is
this one
http://www.ilo.org/public/english/employment/strat/kilm/index.htm
Specifically chapter 18 on productivity.
To rationalise my personal biases my theory is that the
headline figure is distorted because the USA buys DVD players
and other plastic junk mostly on credit. Trade deficit since the
1970's, national debt somewhere around nine trillion dollars.
Is this wealth produced or just borrowed?
The Ford motor company has been insolvent on paper for
years. It's an example of the old saying about owing
the bank ten thousand and you have a problem, owe the bank
ten billion and the bank has a problem.
The counterarguement to that is that the holders of the USA's
massive debt will get paid back a small fraction of it's current
value when inflation due to the Fed printing money outpaces the
return on treasury bonds and other low risk investments,
and the people with money in hedge funds and morgague back
securitys really get it in the shorts.
If you borrow wealth and never give it back is that generating
wealth?
Perhaps this would be a good moment to point to the USA
prodding the IMF for a long time to do somthing about the
Chineese pegging the Yuan right up until the IMF said
that actually the dollar is overvalued at which point the
USA did a total about face and started claiming that it's not
possible to accurately assess it.
When the dollar looses more value the productivity of US
workers may go up as US exports are more competative
but I don't think they will enjoy having their supply of
ridiculously cheap DVD players cut off.
Bob
Jim Thompson
It's GDP divided by the number of people in the working population.
Where did the Brits place?
Ford's insolvency has to do with how Ford is managed, not general US
policy.
Paul Hovnanian P.E.
A couple of problems with this sort of statistic. First:
"The ILO productivity figure is found by dividing a country's total
output in a year by the number of people employed."
Unfortunately, there's no way of telling what the cost of that output
should be and whether or not it has properly been accounted for. They
don't go around quoting 'Net' National Product but 'Gross' National
Product. Take Boeing for example. They sell a $100 million airplane and
the GNP is credited with $100 million. Its not evident from that number
that a good part of the value of the product is foreign made and should
properly be credited to its country of origin.
Another problem:
They are measuring output in dollars. Certainly a $10 American made
widget will appear to be 10x the 'output' of a $1 Chinese widget, even
though the widgets may be functionally identical.
--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:Pa...@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
Dyslexics have more fnu.
John Larkin
<To-Email-Use-Th...@My-Web-Site.com> wrote:
>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6976084.stm
>
> ...Jim Thompson
It's impressive the progress Ireland has made: #2 in the world!
John,
Irish, of course.
Eeyore
"Paul Hovnanian P.E." wrote:
> Jim Thompson wrote:
> >
> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6976084.stm
>
> A couple of problems with this sort of statistic. First:
>
> "The ILO productivity figure is found by dividing a country's total
> output in a year by the number of people employed."
I notice it doesn't factor in the hours worked. These are much higher in the USA
than in Europe.
I've always though productivity should be measured per man-hour.
Graham
MooseFET
Site.com> wrote:
They were on vacation.
> Ford's insolvency has to do with how Ford is managed, not general US
> policy.
... or the average american worker who I would put put up against the
workers of any nation. When it comes to digging the heels in and
pulling the load, a doubt the american work force can be beat.
Jeff Liebermann
>Jim Thompson wrote:
>>
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6976084.stm
>
>A couple of problems with this sort of statistic. First:
>
>"The ILO productivity figure is found by dividing a country's total
>output in a year by the number of people employed."
>
>Unfortunately, there's no way of telling what the cost of that output
>should be and whether or not it has properly been accounted for. They
>don't go around quoting 'Net' National Product but 'Gross' National
>Product.
Actually, the desired term is GDP (gross domestic product) which
includes compensation for inport/export values. See formulas at:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_domestic_product>
The BBC article doesn't mention either GDP or GNP or any other
recognizable metric. Since the ILO is part of the UN, they probably
do their own numbers. It's difficult to tell what the ILO means by
"country's total output", so let's backtrack:
<http://www.ilo.org/global/About_the_ILO/Media_and_public_information/Press_releases/lang--en/WCMS_083976/index.htm>
<http://www.ilo.org/trends/>
It appears to be their own unique and rather extensive method of
measurement called KILM:
<http://www.ilo.org/public/english/employment/strat/kilm/index.htm>
The report is actually a 22Mbyte Windoze program, not a printed
report. Cool:
<http://www.ilo.org/public/english/employment/strat/kilm/download.htm>
You have to register to download. I just started downloading, but
it's taking nearly forever to download. Yawn...
>Take Boeing for example. They sell a $100 million airplane and
>the GNP is credited with $100 million. Its not evident from that number
>that a good part of the value of the product is foreign made and should
>properly be credited to its country of origin.
GDP compensates for that. GNP does not. See formulas in the
Wikipedia article.
>Another problem:
>They are measuring output in dollars. Certainly a $10 American made
>widget will appear to be 10x the 'output' of a $1 Chinese widget, even
>though the widgets may be functionally identical.
Sure, but the cost of living is equally higher in the US than it is in
China. It sorta balances using PPP (purchasing power parity):
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28PPP%29>
Note the large differences in income depending upon the source. Wanna
prove poverty? No problem, just juggle the metrics:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality>
Still downloading. Reminds me of when I was on dialup (shudder). Back
when it's done.
Incidentally, this has nothing to do with electronic schematics and
electronics design, but I'll pretend not to notice.
--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Eeyore
Jim Thompson wrote:
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6976084.stm
>
> ...Jim Thompson
However, Americans work more hours per year than workers in most other developed
economies. This is why, measured as value added per hour worked, Norway has the
highest labour productivity level (US$ 37.99), followed by the United States
(US$ 35.63) and France (US$ 35.08).
Graham
Jeff Liebermann
>It appears to be their own unique and rather extensive method of
>measurement called KILM:
><http://www.ilo.org/public/english/employment/strat/kilm/index.htm>
>The report is actually a 22Mbyte Windoze program, not a printed
>report. Cool:
><http://www.ilo.org/public/english/employment/strat/kilm/download.htm>
>You have to register to download. I just started downloading, but
>it's taking nearly forever to download. Yawn...
Well, that was a suprise. Lots of numbers, mostly from UN sources
such as:
<http://laborsta.ilo.org>
and executive summaries (pre-digested reports). The program exports
data to Excel. Nice.
Chaper 7 is on "Labor Productivity and Unit Labor Costs". That turned
into somewhat of a suprise as they are showing:
"Labour productivity (value added per person employed) as a
percentage of the US level, manufacturing, transport and
communication and trade, latest year"
which seems to yield completely different results showing Netherlands
and Finland as 120% and 110% the productivity of the US in several
sectors. Is "value added" the same as productivity? Dunno.
I couldn't find anything that directly relates to the ILO productivity
conclusions or the BBC mutilation of the report. It's probably buried
in there somewhere, but I can't find it.
It's going to take some effort to digest this mess. Another time...
Michael A. Terrell
In your case it would have to measured in donkey-picoseconds and even
then, the numbers wouldn't be very good.
--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.
Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
Michael A. Terrell
That's why they are MORE productive, dumb ass.
Michael A. Terrell
Americans work more because they aren't lazy, like other countries.
Eeyore
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:
> Eeyore wrote:
> > Jim Thompson wrote:
> >
> > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6976084.stm
> > >
> > > ...Jim Thompson
> >
> > " the US figure is boosted by Americans working more hours per year than
> > workers in most developed countries."
>
> That's why they are MORE productive, dumb ass.
Any idiot can produce more by working longer hours.
The clever bit is to produce plenty *without* working all the hours of the day.
Graham
Christian Hostelet
> Eeyore wrote:
>>
>> Jim Thompson wrote:
>>
>> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6976084.stm
>> >
>> > ...Jim Thompson
>>
>> However, Americans work more hours per year than workers in most other developed
>> economies. This is why, measured as value added per hour worked, Norway has the
>> highest labour productivity level (US$ 37.99), followed by the United States
>> (US$ 35.63) and France (US$ 35.08).
>>
>> http://www.ilo.org/global/About_the_ILO/Media_and_public_information/Press_releases/lang--en/WCMS_083976/index.htm
>>
>> Graham
>
>
> Americans work more because they aren't lazy, like other countries.
>
>
Or simply because they are less efficient?
--
---
Christian - Grenoble
Chuck Harris
The GDP numbers don't support your hypothesis.
MaWin
news:46DCF390...@hotmail.com...
>
> Any idiot can produce more by working longer hours.
>
Not really:
"When you earnestly believe you can compensate for a lack of skill
by doubling your efforts, there's no end to what you can do!"
BUT:
Of course is the report misleading, and probably intentionally
misleading. But it's interesting how fast the people in this
newsgroup found the source of data and the faults.
Productivity is not money per person, but goods per hour worked.
Otherwise a coutry would be twice as productive, if it simply
doubled prices and income, but that's just inflation.
--
Manfred Winterhoff
Michael A. Terrell
Idiots are rarely, if ever productive, no matter HOW many hours they
work.
Michael A. Terrell
Yawn.
Fred Bloggs
Jim Thompson wrote:
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6976084.stm
>
> ...Jim Thompson
I didn't know we produce much of anything anymore. The report sounds
like it's based on a bunch of management level bs which means it is
totally unreliable.
Spehro Pefhany
wrote:
If you order 1000 items from a China factory for $5 each and sell them
for $10, and it takes you two hours, you've just made $2,500 per hour.
That figures into the "productivity". The Chinese workers, who work
diligently for 1,000 hours to make the items, are only producing
$5/hour of goods, so their "productivity" is very poor.
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
sp...@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
Don Bowey
Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Eeyore wrote:
>>
>> Jim Thompson wrote:
>>
>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6976084.stm
>>>
>>> ...Jim Thompson
>>
>> " the US figure is boosted by Americans working more hours per year than
>> workers in most developed countries."
>
>
> That's why they are MORE productive, dumb ass.
Productivity is measured as output per hour.
Fred Bloggs
No it's not, it is GDP per unit of workforce pure calendar year. Go back
to your bingo.
Fred Bloggs
Spehro Pefhany wrote:
> On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 09:19:21 -0400, Fred Bloggs <nos...@nospam.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Jim Thompson wrote:
>>
>>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6976084.stm
>>>
>>> ...Jim Thompson
>>
>>I didn't know we produce much of anything anymore. The report sounds
>>like it's based on a bunch of management level bs which means it is
>>totally unreliable.
>
>
> If you order 1000 items from a China factory for $5 each and sell them
> for $10, and it takes you two hours, you've just made $2,500 per hour.
> That figures into the "productivity". The Chinese workers, who work
> diligently for 1,000 hours to make the items, are only producing
> $5/hour of goods, so their "productivity" is very poor.
>
> Best regards,
> Spehro Pefhany
Right, no one is going to convince me that American workers are
productive, this country is a pathetic, morally and ethically bankrupt
cesspool of bullsh_t, statistically speaking of course.
Jim Thompson
wrote:
Fred, Why don't you move to France where you'll fit right in ?:-)
Eeyore
Fred Bloggs wrote:
> Don Bowey wrote:
> > "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >>Eeyore wrote:
> >>>Jim Thompson wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6976084.stm
> >>>>
> >>>> ...Jim Thompson
> >>>
> >>> " the US figure is boosted by Americans working more hours per year than
> >>>workers in most developed countries."
> >>
> >>
> >> That's why they are MORE productive, dumb ass.
> >
> >
> > Productivity is measured as output per hour.
> >
>
> No it's not, it is GDP per unit of workforce pure calendar year. Go back
> to your bingo.
I see 'per unit of time' here.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/productivity
Nothing about years whatever. Hours makes more sense given that wages are
commonly paid according to an hourly rate.
Graham
Don Bowey
<nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
Says the guy who obviously never studied economics. Let me put it more
completely so perhaps you can follow it better: Productivity is measured as
output per man-hour. Working more un-productive hours does not improve
productivity. how else could you compare GDPs
Spehro Pefhany
Sheesh. It's quite possible for there to be more than one way to
measure it.
Here's a sensible general definition:
<http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=1473-2858(196506)16%3A2%3C177%3AP-TOCT%3E2.0.CO%3B2-4>
Fred Bloggs
Jim Thompson wrote:
> On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 12:02:38 -0400, Fred Bloggs <nos...@nospam.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Spehro Pefhany wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 09:19:21 -0400, Fred Bloggs <nos...@nospam.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Jim Thompson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6976084.stm
>>>>>
>>>>> ...Jim Thompson
>>>>
>>>>I didn't know we produce much of anything anymore. The report sounds
>>>>like it's based on a bunch of management level bs which means it is
>>>>totally unreliable.
>>>
>>>
>>>If you order 1000 items from a China factory for $5 each and sell them
>>>for $10, and it takes you two hours, you've just made $2,500 per hour.
>>>That figures into the "productivity". The Chinese workers, who work
>>>diligently for 1,000 hours to make the items, are only producing
>>>$5/hour of goods, so their "productivity" is very poor.
>>>
>>>Best regards,
>>>Spehro Pefhany
>>
>>Right, no one is going to convince me that American workers are
>>productive, this country is a pathetic, morally and ethically bankrupt
>>cesspool of bullsh_t, statistically speaking of course.
>
>
> Fred, Why don't you move to France where you'll fit right in ?:-)
>
> ...Jim Thompson
I think I will, I would enjoy living in France, at least there's some
semblance of culture there.
Fred Bloggs
Don Bowey wrote:
> On 9/4/07 8:46 AM, in article 46DD7DD8...@nospam.com, "Fred Bloggs"
> <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Don Bowey wrote:
>>
>>>On 9/3/07 10:34 PM, in article 46DCEE4B...@earthlink.net, "Michael A.
>>>Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Eeyore wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Jim Thompson wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6976084.stm
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ...Jim Thompson
>>>>>
>>>>>" the US figure is boosted by Americans working more hours per year than
>>>>>workers in most developed countries."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>That's why they are MORE productive, dumb ass.
>>>
>>>
>>>Productivity is measured as output per hour.
>>>
>>
>>No it's not, it is GDP per unit of workforce pure calendar year. Go back
>>to your bingo.
>>
>
>
> Says the guy who obviously never studied economics.
I never study anything, it either comes to me or it doesn't.
> Let me put it more
> completely so perhaps you can follow it better: Productivity is measured as
> output per man-hour. Working more un-productive hours does not improve
> productivity. how else could you compare GDPs
>
>
That may be your understanding but the BBC report says productivity for
purposes of that report is defined as I said it was.
Michael A. Terrell
> semblance of culture there.
Be careful! A lot of that 'culture' is resistant to all known
antibiotics. On second thought: Enjoy yourself, while you last.
Fred Bloggs
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
> Fred Bloggs wrote:
>
>>Jim Thompson wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 12:02:38 -0400, Fred Bloggs <nos...@nospam.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>Fred, Why don't you move to France where you'll fit right in ?:-)
>>
>>I think I will, I would enjoy living in France, at least there's some
>>semblance of culture there.
>
>
>
> Be careful! A lot of that 'culture' is resistant to all known
> antibiotics. On second thought: Enjoy yourself, while you last.
>
>
French medical science rivals the world, to this day they continue to
make great breakthroughs. Louis Pasteur is the Isaac Newton of modern
microbiology, a great genius.
Michael A. Terrell
What has he done lately, other than continue to decompose? He's been
dead over 100 years: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Pasteur so his
work isn't cutting edge.
Chuck Harris
Yeah, and the Arab world used to be the cradle of civilization.
Things change.
Michael A. Terrell
I have heard multiple reports that American workers take less
vacation days, sick days and holidays compared to a lot of other
countries. fewer employees producing the same goods reduces overhead
for insurance, training, and other overhead costs thereby raising
productivity, no matter HOW you measure it.
Chris Jones
> Fred Bloggs wrote:
>>
>> Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>> > Fred Bloggs wrote:
>> >
>> >>Jim Thompson wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 12:02:38 -0400, Fred Bloggs <nos...@nospam.com>
>> >>>wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>Fred, Why don't you move to France where you'll fit right in ?:-)
>> >>
>> >>I think I will, I would enjoy living in France, at least there's some
>> >>semblance of culture there.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Be careful! A lot of that 'culture' is resistant to all known
>> > antibiotics. On second thought: Enjoy yourself, while you last.
>> >
>> >
>>
>> French medical science rivals the world, to this day they continue to
>> make great breakthroughs. Louis Pasteur is the Isaac Newton of modern
>> microbiology, a great genius.
>
>
> What has he done lately, other than continue to decompose? He's been
> dead over 100 years: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Pasteur so his
> work isn't cutting edge.
Though it will be, when it reaches the UK.
Don Bowey
"Chuck Harris" <cf-NO-SP...@erols.com> wrote:
It still was. That didn't change
Don Bowey
Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Don Bowey wrote:
>>
>> On 9/3/07 10:34 PM, in article 46DCEE4B...@earthlink.net, "Michael A.
>> Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Eeyore wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Jim Thompson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6976084.stm
>>>>>
>>>>> ...Jim Thompson
>>>>
>>>> " the US figure is boosted by Americans working more hours per year than
>>>> workers in most developed countries."
>>>
>>>
>>> That's why they are MORE productive, dumb ass.
>>
>> Productivity is measured as output per hour.
>
>
> I have heard multiple reports that American workers take less
> vacation days, sick days and holidays compared to a lot of other
> countries. fewer employees producing the same goods reduces overhead
> for insurance, training, and other overhead costs thereby raising
> productivity, no matter HOW you measure it.
>
Well, it increases production, but not necessarily productivity. For that
you must factor in time.
Chuck Harris
You really need to try and follow the thread.
Start again at the part that reads "French medical...
FB uses Louis Pasteur as proof of France's current
greatness in medical science.
That is just like using the Arab world's centuries old expertise
in mathematics as proof of its current scholarly greatness.
Jim Thompson
wrote:
The definition does NOT have time in it other than ANNUAL!
Joerg
Then why is the cancer mortality (for detected and treated cases) higher
in Europe than in the US? Example:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/272078.stm
Scroll to "Health spending and cancer survival rates".
--
Regards, Joerg
Don Bowey
"Chuck Harris" <cf-NO-SP...@erols.com> wrote:
> Don Bowey wrote:
>> On 9/4/07 10:47 AM, in article G8CdnbfrXeipB0Db...@rcn.net,
>> "Chuck Harris" <cf-NO-SP...@erols.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Fred Bloggs wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>>>>> Fred Bloggs wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Jim Thompson wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 12:02:38 -0400, Fred Bloggs <nos...@nospam.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Fred, Why don't you move to France where you'll fit right in ?:-)
>>>>>> I think I will, I would enjoy living in France, at least there's some
>>>>>> semblance of culture there.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Be careful! A lot of that 'culture' is resistant to all known
>>>>> antibiotics. On second thought: Enjoy yourself, while you last.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> French medical science rivals the world, to this day they continue to
>>>> make great breakthroughs. Louis Pasteur is the Isaac Newton of modern
>>>> microbiology, a great genius.
>>> Yeah, and the Arab world used to be the cradle of civilization.
>>>
>>> Things change.
>>
>> It still was. That didn't change
>
> You really need to try and follow the thread.
Why, did I miss something important?
>
> Start again at the part that reads "French medical...
I see I didn't miss something important.
>
> FB uses Louis Pasteur as proof of France's current
> greatness in medical science.
>
> That is just like using the Arab world's centuries old expertise
> in mathematics as proof of its current scholarly greatness.
True.
But the Arab world still was the cradle of civilization. What was can't be
taken away.
Joerg
>
> Jim Thompson wrote:
>
>
>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6976084.stm
>>
>> ...Jim Thompson
>
>
> economies. This is why, measured as value added per hour worked, Norway has the
> highest labour productivity level (US$ 37.99), followed by the United States
> (US$ 35.63) and France (US$ 35.08).
>
> http://www.ilo.org/global/About_the_ILO/Media_and_public_information/Press_releases/lang--en/WCMS_083976/index.htm
>
Might that by any chance change once the oil and natural gas reserves of
Norway are tapped out? Value addition is fairly easy as long as you can
pump the goods out of the North Sea.
Fred Bloggs
Pasteur comes to mind because of the Pasteur Institute, you might get a
clue. They rival any US medical research institution in productivity and
contributions to the state of the knowledge. France possesses some of
the most brilliant people in the world, and these are French ethnics and
not imports. There is no "used to be" to it.
Joerg
So, then, why is the cancer mortality rate higher there?
Ross Herbert
<mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Eeyore wrote:
>>
>> Jim Thompson wrote:
>>
>> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6976084.stm
>> >
>> > ...Jim Thompson
>>
>> " the US figure is boosted by Americans working more hours per
year than
>> workers in most developed countries."
>
>
> That's why they are MORE productive, dumb ass.
Who was it who coined the phrase "Lies, damned lies, and statistics"?
(could be Mark Twain, Benjamin Disraeli or anyone of a number of
others)
How is labour productivity measured? It is simply the return on
capital for hours worked. That means that if the workforce is screwed
down by paying lower wages than in comparable situations in other
developed countries then the profitability, and hence labour
productivity, is greater.
The national unemployment rate as well as the demand for labour will
also have some say in the result. If there are a large number
unemployed looking for work, they will accept lower wages in order to
get a job, since there is a plentiful supply of labour to choose from.
Conversely, in a country with low unemployment and a high demand for
labour, workers can demand higher wages. Therefore the labour
productivity figure will be pushed backwards despite the fact that the
working hours are equal to their US counterparts.
The last figures I saw for US and Australian workers was that they
both worked around 1825 hrs per capita while the unemployment figure
in both countries is below 5%. However due to the massive Australian
resources boom skilled workers are scarce, so they are getting paid
more and the comparitive labour productivity figure will be lower than
for the US. It's just a case of supply and demand and the situation
may reverse in the next few years...
Don Bowey
"Jim Thompson" <To-Email-Use-Th...@My-Web-Site.com> wrote:
Well, Duh! GNP IS Annual and annual is sure time. It should include
*hours* (or whole and/or fractional people) in the calculations, as simple
head-count would distort, not production, but productivity of the workforce.
Don Bowey
NjmDi.13192$3x.1...@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net, "Joerg"
<notthis...@removethispacbell.net> wrote:
Rumor has it that they do not bathe often enough.
Jim Thompson
wrote:
Whether it should or not is not the point. The comparison was
published on an annual GDP/working-head basis.
Jim Thompson
wrote:
>On 9/4/07 4:59 PM, in article
>NjmDi.13192$3x.1...@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net, "Joerg"
><notthis...@removethispacbell.net> wrote:
>
[snip]
>>
>> So, then, why is the cancer mortality rate higher there?
>
>Rumor has it that they do not bathe often enough.
The thing that struck me most, on my very first trip into France, was
the smell.... like raw sewage running down the streets.
Chuck Harris
>> You really need to try and follow the thread.
>
> Why, did I miss something important?
What? In this thread? Hardly likely ;-)
>> Start again at the part that reads "French medical...
>
> I see I didn't miss something important.
>
>> FB uses Louis Pasteur as proof of France's current
>> greatness in medical science.
>>
>> That is just like using the Arab world's centuries old expertise
>> in mathematics as proof of its current scholarly greatness.
>
> True.
>
> But the Arab world still was the cradle of civilization. What was can't be
> taken away.
Ok, I see. You believe that because I said they *used* to be the cradle of
civilization that I was taking away that accomplishment. I can see your point.
How about if I change the sentence to:
Yeah, and the Arab world used to be a cradle of civilization.
Things change.
Would you give me a passing grade?
Chuck Harris
>
>
> Chuck Harris wrote:
>> Fred Bloggs wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>>>
>>>> Fred Bloggs wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Jim Thompson wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 12:02:38 -0400, Fred Bloggs <nos...@nospam.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fred, Why don't you move to France where you'll fit right in ?:-)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I think I will, I would enjoy living in France, at least there's some
>>>>> semblance of culture there.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Be careful! A lot of that 'culture' is resistant to all known
>>>> antibiotics. On second thought: Enjoy yourself, while you last.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> French medical science rivals the world, to this day they continue to
>>> make great breakthroughs. Louis Pasteur is the Isaac Newton of modern
>>> microbiology, a great genius.
>>
>>
>> Yeah, and the Arab world used to be the cradle of civilization.
>>
>> Things change.
>
> Pasteur comes to mind because of the Pasteur Institute, you might get a
> clue. They rival any US medical research institution in productivity and
> contributions to the state of the knowledge.
That's ok, they have the Pasteur Institute, we have dozens equal or better.
France possesses some of
> the most brilliant people in the world, and these are French ethnics and
> not imports.
Yes, purebred people are important to any proper country... Europe has always
harbored that fantasy.
Eeyore
Fred Bloggs wrote:
French engineering is pretty good too.
Graham
Eeyore
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:
> Fred Bloggs wrote
> > Michael A. Terrell wrote:
> > > Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > >>Jim Thompson wrote:
> > >>> Fred Bloggs <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>Fred, Why don't you move to France where you'll fit right in ?:-)
> > >>
> > >>I think I will, I would enjoy living in France, at least there's some
> > >>semblance of culture there.
> > >
> > > Be careful! A lot of that 'culture' is resistant to all known
> > > antibiotics. On second thought: Enjoy yourself, while you last.
> >
> >
> > French medical science rivals the world, to this day they continue to
> > make great breakthroughs. Louis Pasteur is the Isaac Newton of modern
> > microbiology, a great genius.
>
> What has he done lately, other than continue to decompose? He's been
> dead over 100 years: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Pasteur so his
> work isn't cutting edge.
For over a century, the Institut Pasteur has been at the forefront of the battle
against infectious disease. This worldwide biomedical research organization
based in Paris was the first to isolate HIV, the virus that causes AIDS, in
1983. Over the years, it has been responsible for breakthrough discoveries that
have enabled medical science to control such virulent diseases as diphtheria,
tetanus, tuberculosis, poliomyelitis, influenza, yellow fever and plague. Since
1908, eight Pasteur Institute scientists have been awarded the Nobel Prize for
medicine and physiology.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasteur_Institute
Eeyore
Chuck Harris wrote:
Not at all.
The Pasteur Institute is still very active.
Graham
Eeyore
Joerg wrote:
Cherry picking data like that proves nothing.
Overall US mortality is higher than in Europe AIUI. Besides, 'Europe' now
includes a lot of former Waraw Pact countries that still have a lot of catching
up to do to get on par with the likes of Britain, France and Germany for
example.
Graham
Eeyore
Joerg wrote:
It just goes to show how worthless such studies can be. You'll also find that some (notably small) countries have very
high per-capita GDPs based on their provision of high value services like banking. That doesn't seem to have much to do
with 'productivity' in the traditonal sense to me.
That the French are on par with USA intruiged me though. It kind of kills the popular US myth about 'socialism' being
anti-business.
Graham
Eeyore
Joerg wrote:
> Fred Bloggs wrote:
> >
> > Pasteur comes to mind because of the Pasteur Institute, you might get a
> > clue. They rival any US medical research institution in productivity and
> > contributions to the state of the knowledge. France possesses some of
> > the most brilliant people in the world, and these are French ethnics and
> > not imports. There is no "used to be" to it.
>
> So, then, why is the cancer mortality rate higher there?
Why is overall US mortality higher than say, Iran ?
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2066rank.html
You might also ask what comparative incidence of cancer is. I doubt they're the
same.
Graham
Eeyore
Chuck Harris wrote:
"Used to be the cradle of civilisation" makes no sense.
Either it was or it wasn't. You can't change these things after the fact.
> Things change.
>
> Would you give me a passing grade?
You've missed the point entirely.
Graham
Eeyore
Chuck Harris wrote:
> Yes, purebred people are important to any proper country... Europe has always
> harbored that fantasy.
That's complete nonsense.
Americans are fabulously uneducated (about Europe too).
Graham
Michael A. Terrell
>
> For over a century, the Institut Pasteur has been at the forefront of the battle
> against infectious disease. This worldwide biomedical research organization
> based in Paris was the first to isolate HIV, the virus that causes AIDS, in
> 1983. Over the years, it has been responsible for breakthrough discoveries that
> have enabled medical science to control such virulent diseases as diphtheria,
> tetanus, tuberculosis, poliomyelitis, influenza, yellow fever and plague. Since
> 1908, eight Pasteur Institute scientists have been awarded the Nobel Prize for
> medicine and physiology.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasteur_Institute
So what? The man Louis, is long dead and HE hasn't doesn't anything
in over a century. We could easily create the 'Brain Dead Donkey
Institute of Stupidity de Europe' to further stupidity after you die,
but YOU will no longer be bringing down the average intelligence in
Europe because the worms will be gagging as they eat your rotting
corpse.
--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.
Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
Michael A. Terrell
The Model T was the shining example of the production line
automobile, but haow many do you see on the road?
Michael A. Terrell
>
> On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 18:38:03 -0700, Don Bowey <dbo...@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
> >On 9/4/07 4:59 PM, in article
> >NjmDi.13192$3x.1...@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net, "Joerg"
> ><notthis...@removethispacbell.net> wrote:
> >
> [snip]
> >>
> >> So, then, why is the cancer mortality rate higher there?
> >
> >Rumor has it that they do not bathe often enough.
>
> The thing that struck me most, on my very first trip into France, was
> the smell.... like raw sewage running down the streets.
That wasn't sewage, Eeyore was on holiday in France.
Michael A. Terrell
Hitler would be proud.
Fred Bloggs
Chuck Harris wrote:
[snip]
You don't like their politics so you discredit the entire nation, its
people, culture, and contributions to civilization- typical ignorant
American.
Chuck Harris
I don't recall doing that. Perhaps you could point out where I did? Or
did it --just come to you-- ?
I find that not living in France, their politics has no real effect on me.
France is basically insignificant to most every place but France. If they
disappeared from the face of the Earth, it would be many many years before
most anyone in the United States even noticed the change...
I do notice, however, that you seem to be very free in downplaying the
many accomplishments of the American people [including the really big one
that explains why France, and the rest of Europe isn't called Germany].
Just what you accuse me of doing.
Eeyore
Fred Bloggs wrote:
Blimey. You're beginning to sound like me !
You're quite right of course. Chuck's response was fairly typical although
somewhat less offensive than many of the regular s.e.d posters.
Graham
Don Bowey
<rabbitsfriend...@hotmail.com> wrote:
French Fries are better.
Don Bowey
<rabbitsfriend...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Only in your ignorance.
Don Bowey
Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
15,230,004.
Come on now. Do you have a real point
Don Bowey
<nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
Idiot donkey II.
Don Bowey
"Chuck Harris" <cf-NO-SP...@erols.com> wrote:
> Fred Bloggs wrote:
>>
>>
>> Chuck Harris wrote:
>> [snip]
>>
>> You don't like their politics so you discredit the entire nation, its
>> people, culture, and contributions to civilization- typical ignorant
>> American.
>
> I don't recall doing that. Perhaps you could point out where I did? Or
> did it --just come to you-- ?
>
> I find that not living in France, their politics has no real effect on me.
> France is basically insignificant to most every place but France. If they
> disappeared from the face of the Earth, it would be many many years before
> most anyone in the United States even noticed the change...
The folks in Quebec might become noticeably nicer.
Joerg
Socialism is anti-business. Also, they are definitely not on par WRT
services such as health care. If you get really sick over there your
chances of dying are quite a bit higher than in the US. Most certainly
so in the UK.
--
Regards, Joerg
Joerg
>
> Joerg wrote:
>
>
>>Fred Bloggs wrote:
>>
>>>Pasteur comes to mind because of the Pasteur Institute, you might get a
>>>clue. They rival any US medical research institution in productivity and
>>>contributions to the state of the knowledge. France possesses some of
>>>the most brilliant people in the world, and these are French ethnics and
>>>not imports. There is no "used to be" to it.
>>
>>So, then, why is the cancer mortality rate higher there?
>
>
> Why is overall US mortality higher than say, Iran ?
> https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2066rank.html
>
And the UK's even higher yet? Probably because Iranians live on
healthier food. So far I haven't met an Iranian immigrant who was
overweight at a young age. Those who came with their parents or were
born here, very different story. Same for other countries. Turkey isn't
on the list but folks from there told me of relatives that are around
100 and totally healthy, doing hardcore farming work (!), often despite
a bad habit of smoking. However, they never ate a single Snicker's bar
in their whole life because you couldn't buy them out in the country.
Long story short we've got to give up our cheeseburgers and you guys
have to give up the bangers ;-)
> You might also ask what comparative incidence of cancer is. I doubt they're the
> same.
>
Doesn't make much of a difference. You get a certain kind of cancer, you
treat it, then look at the long term survivals. Breast cancer is breast
cancer, no matter which country. Given a large enough number (not always
the case in some medical "studies") you'll have quite a reliable
indicator of how good the system works in a given country.
For example, one of the things I noticed when coming to the US: When
someone got cancer in Europe they had to fight hard to get the doc to
prescribe and the health insurers to pay for a PET scan. Here in the US
they usually send you to the next PET scan site instantly.
John Larkin
Do some of the european countries actually want old people to die?
John
Fred Bloggs
Your every post proves the point.
Spehro Pefhany
Might be kinder than keeping them going drugged and/or in excruciating
pain the last few months or weeks with heroic measures that benefit
only the doctors.
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
sp...@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
Joerg
>
> Joerg wrote:
>
>
>>Fred Bloggs wrote:
>>
>>>Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>>>
>>>>Fred Bloggs wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Jim Thompson wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Fred Bloggs <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Fred, Why don't you move to France where you'll fit right in ?:-)
>>>>>
>>>>>I think I will, I would enjoy living in France, at least there's some
>>>>>semblance of culture there.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Be careful! A lot of that 'culture' is resistant to all known
>>>>antibiotics. On second thought: Enjoy yourself, while you last.
>>>
>>>French medical science rivals the world, to this day they continue to
>>>make great breakthroughs. Louis Pasteur is the Isaac Newton of modern
>>>microbiology, a great genius.
>>
>>Then why is the cancer mortality (for detected and treated cases) higher
>>in Europe than in the US? Example:
>>
>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/272078.stm
>>
>>Scroll to "Health spending and cancer survival rates".
>
>
> Cherry picking data like that proves nothing.
>
It's one story out of many and they all point in the same direction. I
just picked a UK source since you most likely won't believe US sources
anyhow. I think the BBC is a pretty credible source, ain't it?
> Overall US mortality is higher than in Europe AIUI. Besides, 'Europe' now
> includes a lot of former Waraw Pact countries that still have a lot of catching
> up to do to get on par with the likes of Britain, France and Germany for
> example.
>
Read it again. The former Warsaw Pact countries aren't in that list.
I haven't looked at overall mortality lately but most of that is due to
poor choices, not health care. For example, the number of people around
here who almost never cook and live on take-out dinners or fast food is
mind boggling. Very sad. Not only does it lead to cholesterol and
obesity issues but they often do not realize what it costs them financially.
Fred Bloggs
America's involvement in WWII was not exactly a selfless gift to the
rest of the world. FDR knew it was only a matter of time before we were
in the sights of Fascist regimes, and Japan had already attacked several
of our territories.
Joel Kolstad
news:IpADi.52558$YL5....@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
> For example, the number of people around here who almost never cook and live
> on take-out dinners or fast food is mind boggling. Very sad. Not only does
> it lead to cholesterol and obesity issues but they often do not realize what
> it costs them financially.
Ironically "healthy" food is often more expensive these days than "junk" food.
This has led to the poor having a higher incidence of obesity than those with
more money.
Not quite the same as eating out, but I think every college student realizes
pretty quickly that it's almost impossible to make for yourself the same food
that's provided in a $0.99-$1.99 frozen dinner from the grocery store... plus
of course you save the time of preparation.
(And of course there's ramen noodles for the ultimate in cheap college
foods... gotta save some money for beer, after all. :-) )
Joerg
I've heard some stories about certain procedures "not being done" on
people over certain age limits. That can be a real bummer if, like our
former neighbor in Germany, you are around 80 but have the fitness of a
60 year old. This guy is still an active hunter and can leave some
younger lads in the dust on longer hikes.
Frithiof Andreas Jensen
"Jim Thompson" <To-Email-Use-Th...@My-Web-Site.com> skrev i en
meddelelse news:qt5pd3tr9igls8p45...@4ax.com...
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6976084.stm
>
> ...Jim Thompson
... And this happy state of affairs actually benefit said workers or
management & political cronies?
Sez he who is currently pissed off because the communist bastard retard
government cannot abolish the top rate tax EVEN WHILE IN MAJORITY.
Consequently, I will take 3-4 weeks holiday more on top of the six I already
enjoy - screw them; they can go leech off someone else!!
Frithiof Andreas Jensen
"John Larkin" <jjla...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> skrev i en
meddelelse news:b9dpd3p6homeuq7qd...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 16:25:07 -0700, Jim Thompson
> <To-Email-Use-Th...@My-Web-Site.com> wrote:
>
>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6976084.stm
>>
>> ...Jim Thompson
>
>
> John,
>
> Irish, of course.
Cheats, i.e: LOW TAXES => High Incentive to work and Little Stupidity &
Waste (the governments contribution)!
Spehro Pefhany
They leach money from surrounding governments with their IP
legislation. It only works because they're small. Probably the Cayman
Islands has a high "productivity" as well.
Michael A. Terrell
Yes, but you didn't see it, or ignored it. YOU CAN'T LIVE IN THE
PAST! You can only vist it in history books and museums.
Joerg
Actually, as a student I found out that fresh food cooked at home was
cheaper. Still is. You just have to be a smart shopper, always looking
for sales, know how to store stuff. I mean, fresh corn for 50c or fresh
meat for $2.49/lbs can never be achieved by some pre-pressed burger.
You can get 10 chicken pieces for $7.99 at a well known place, with some
of that paying their massives TV ad blitzes. Or you can go to the store,
buy a whole chicken for under $5, cook it over the barbie and end up
with more, tastier and better quality meat. Same with burgers. We always
cook our own. Less than $5 of top quality meat makes 12-15 large burgers
over a wood/charcoal fire, we'll eat 1-2 each and the rest goes into the
freezer. Cut some potatoes in half, oil and spice them, onto the barbie,
yummy. Sure beats the greasy fries from the fast food joint and costs a
lot less.
Many poor people just think it's cheaper while cheating themselves. And
then they easily shell out $20-30 for one measly take-out "dinner" for
the family. Do that 20 days out of a month, which some do, and here's
around $500. Gone. Suddenly the budget is off kilter and they have to go
to a payday loan place which augers them into the pile of debt some more.
Here I'd include those who over-stretch themselves regularly as
compulsive shoppers. Those folks seem to have a tendency for
"convenience foods".
It's the same with coffee. Our coffee in the morning is made right here
and costs less than $1. Enough for two coffee drinkers. Can be had here
in the office or poured into a thermos for the road. Others drive by a
coffee place every morning and then it's $3-$4 for a latte. Each. Do
that 20 times a month for two people and, voila, the next $140 out the
window. Poof. Gone.
A sad and unfortunately true story out here is a really old couple who
did exactly that for decades. The result are nearly non-existent savings
and the dire outlook of having no choice but a welfare type nursing
home. To me that's the most dismal last phase of life one can
experience. I have to brace myself everytime we visit someone there.
Frithiof Andreas Jensen
"Joerg" <notthis...@removethispacbell.net> skrev i en meddelelse
news:NjmDi.13192$3x.1...@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net...
> So, then, why is the cancer mortality rate higher there?
>
Golouaise(sp?) - or rather the chemicals poured over the tobacco they are
made from ;-)
Frithiof Andreas Jensen
"Chuck Harris" <cf-NO-SP...@erols.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:FYidnTP1RPYfhkPb...@rcn.net...
> Yes, purebred people are important to any proper country... Europe has
> always
> harbored that fantasy.
Learned through Experience with 2000 years of European wars:
Multi-culturalism; the Multi-ethnic society; Diversity (or whatever label
sociologists use to make tribal society appear like a really Great idea).
What it really means is this: If your car happen to break down in the wrong
area, the resident tribe *will* bash your head in with your tire iron, torch
the car steal your wallet and pelt the emergency servics with rocks and
petrol bombs! For a real life demo, I suggest Nørrebro in copenhagen or
Gjellerup in Århus.
The US got plenty of gang-banger residue from the mythical "Melting Pot".
The Eropean tax-payers would rather not have them (anymore).
Joerg
Gauloises ;-)
They cause lung cancer though. But what I meant was the total number of
cancer cases versus long term survival of that group of people. Doesn't
look too great in most of Europe.
Joel Kolstad
I'm used to. I'm still thinking those $0.99 frozen dinners are cheaper, but I
will pay some more attention next time I'm at a grocery store and try to make
a valid comparison.
---Joel
Joerg
Also, take a close look at the nutritional value of that $0.99 frozen
dinner. But sit down before you do ;-)
This week's specials as an example:
http://www.raleys.com/apps/svngs/svngs.jsp#Fine%20Meats
Pork loin for $2.28/lbs or sirloin steak for $3.47/lbs is certainly not
something you can find at any fast food place. You've got to cook your
own. Else it'll get really expensive or people will have to settle for
pre-pressed patties from who-knows-where, topped with cheese where the
saturated fats make the cholesterol reading peg.
Even if in a rush I'll barbeque. Just take vellum pad and pencil to the
barbie, of the whole laptop if you must. With some practice it's as easy
as keeping the wood stove going.
Paul Hovnanian P.E.
>
> "Paul Hovnanian P.E." <pa...@hovnanian.com> hath wroth:> >A couple of problems with this sort of statistic. First:
> >
> >"The ILO productivity figure is found by dividing a country's total
> >output in a year by the number of people employed."
> >
> >Unfortunately, there's no way of telling what the cost of that output
> >should be and whether or not it has properly been accounted for. They
> >don't go around quoting 'Net' National Product but 'Gross' National
> >Product.
>
> Actually, the desired term is GDP (gross domestic product) which
> includes compensation for inport/export values. See formulas at:
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_domestic_product>
> The BBC article doesn't mention either GDP or GNP or any other
> recognizable metric. Since the ILO is part of the UN, they probably
> do their own numbers. It's difficult to tell what the ILO means by
> "country's total output", so let's backtrack:
> <http://www.ilo.org/global/About_the_ILO/Media_and_public_information/Press_releases/lang--en/WCMS_083976/index.htm>
> <http://www.ilo.org/trends/>
> It appears to be their own unique and rather extensive method of
> measurement called KILM:
> <http://www.ilo.org/public/english/employment/strat/kilm/index.htm>
> The report is actually a 22Mbyte Windoze program, not a printed
> report. Cool:
> <http://www.ilo.org/public/english/employment/strat/kilm/download.htm>
> You have to register to download. I just started downloading, but
> it's taking nearly forever to download. Yawn...
>
> >Take Boeing for example. They sell a $100 million airplane and
> >the GNP is credited with $100 million. Its not evident from that number
> >that a good part of the value of the product is foreign made and should
> >properly be credited to its country of origin.
>
> GDP compensates for that. GNP does not. See formulas in the
> Wikipedia article.
Interesting. My second issue still remains in that this is a monetary
statistic. There doesn't appear to be a way to factor in the lower cost
of production in some countries.
--
Paul Hovnanian pa...@hovnanian.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The blinking cursor writes; and having writ, blinks on.
John Larkin
<frithio...@diespammerdie.jensen.tdcadsl.dk> wrote:
That's not fair! I'm sure the EC is working on the problem.
John
Chuck
this thread, so if this point has
already been made, my apologies.
Historically, as production slows in the
US economy, the seniority system leads
to the layoff of less-experienced (i.e.,
typically less productive) workers. The
consequence of this practice is usually
that labor force productivity then rises
as production falls.
Recent reports in the media about
increases in US labor productivity are
part of the ongoing pitch that things
are great and getting better.
Chuck
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
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Jim Thompson
Eh? Looking back in time I only observe higher tax rates than now.
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
America: Land of the Free, Because of the Brave
Joerg
Hmm, I met quite a few Scandinavians who did that. But I must confess I
also did it in Germany once. Looked at the biz numbers, tax rate quite
up there, some major remodel was needed in the house. Looked at
contractor costs versus my after-tax income, almost choked. Decided to
take three weeks off and did it myself.
Chuck Harris
Never have I said the the US involvement in WWII wasn't based on our own
internal interests. It was. But what you fail to acknowledge is that WWII
could not have been won by the Allies without the US. It was our tireless
effort, and unsinkable economy that saved the day.
Fred Bloggs
And the US cannot have won it without the allies. I don't recall the
allies sitting around on their butts doing nothing. And as for the
unsinkable economy, WWII pulled us out the Depression.