Idiots
John Larkin
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/27/us/27security.html
So a guy tried to detonate a bomb during the last hour of a flight.
The TSA morons thus conclude that all terrorists detonate their bombs
in the last hour, so make it illegal to get out of your seat during
those 60 minutes. They are clearly assuming that the bombers are
dumber than they are; I have my doubts.
The real issue is why they let a Nigerian, festooned with explosives,
on a terrorist watch list, onto the plane in the first place. I
suppose searching people who look like they might be terrorists would
be "profiling" or "invasion or privacy" or something.
They did give my 90-year old father a full, very rude pull-aside
screening because he had a one-way ticket out of Louisiana after
Katrina. I once got super-harassed and triple searched because my
ticket had a "payment basis" of "A", and nobody knew what "A" meant. I
think it meant American Express.
(If they search you three times, they seem to be assuming that the
first two searches were incompetant.)
Idiots. Always fighting the last battle.
John
Adrian C
> The real issue is why they let a Nigerian, festooned with explosives,
> on a terrorist watch list, onto the plane in the first place. I
> suppose searching people who look like they might be terrorists would
> be "profiling" or "invasion or privacy" or something.
Seen the walk-in explosive detectors they have around the Statue of
Liberty exhibit? The type that puff your clothes and work out the
composition of your last spray of beauty product.
They don't have those in many airports yet. Maybe they should....
But I have a cheaper alternative.
A chamber constructed of a few tons of reinforced concrete and lead is
placed just after the departure gate. Each passenger walks through it,
one at a time, and is quickly subjected to various EMC and other stimuli
that would naturally set off their explosive device if carrying. The
innocent pass through unscathed, and the miscreants would be immediately
caught and dealt with.
Oh, where is that Patent brief....
--
Adrian C
Greegor
Aren't you looking forward to nationalized health
care and Nanny State socialism?
Remember that Roosevelt's "2nd Bill of Rights"
was never actually passed or even voted on.
It's just creeping on in!
As you said, the third search presumes that the
first two were incompetent!
It's just proof that the bureaucracy itself
is self aware of it's own incapacity.
Jan Panteltje
<em...@here.invalid> wrote in <7pnj4m...@mid.individual.net>:
Well, he mixed the explosives in flight it seems, so the ingredients
may have been hard to trigger, but you could kill innocent people with a pacemaker for example.
What I find a bit hard to swallow is that they keep him in a hospital...
I would question him, let him suffer, and then shoot him, after all
he tried to kill more then 250 people.
I do not like all that security stuff.
There is always a risk in life, more people die in traffic each year..
I know Schiphol airport pretty well, worked there too.
Had security clearance too.
Strange they did not check anybody at that gate, maybe just a metal detector.
John Larkin
The Feds clearly screwed up on this one.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB126186577980706007.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_MIDDLTopStories
So the response? Start doing their jobs properly? No, of course not;
their response is to inconvenience us more, to make it look like they
know what they're doing.
John
Martin Riddle
"John Larkin" <jjla...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in
message news:ol3dj5h84quqkdbn6...@4ax.com...
Great make all this public knowledge, now the terrorists are better
educated.
And what about Nigeria, and Amsterdam? Everything status quo?
Cheers
JeffM
>>I have a cheaper alternative.
>>and is quickly subjected to various EMC and other stimuli
>>
and start looking at PEOPLE
--the way they do at the world's most secure airport.
http://google.com/search?q=cache:ZGJigcgFQ4YJ:www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/01/15/60II/main324476.shtml+secret.service+What's-the-safest-airport+*-*-has-it-right.*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*+drive.through.too.quickly+anything-*-does-not-fit+are.profilers+was-in-*-*-army.*-*-intelligence+profiling+ask-*-a-few-questions+*-fiance.*-*-*+watch.you
http://tinyurl.com/ReallySecureAirports
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/01/15/60II/main324476.shtml
Jan Panteltje wrote:
>Well, he mixed the explosives in flight it seems
>
I doubt it.
http://google.com/search?q=cache:63mnG_uzEYcJ:www.theregister.co.uk/2006/08/17/flying_toilet_terror_labs+drop.by.drop+*-gel-packs+*-*-*-hours+*-peroxide+acetone+*-*-*-*.*-*-*-*-manage-*-*-*-*-*+*-enough-*-*-*-*-*-*-*+an-infidel-*-*+*-*.*-*-*-*.*-*-*-*.*-*-*-*-dropper+sulfuric.acid+*-constantly+*-chiller+*-*-*-*-hour-*-*+concentrated+fumes+*-*-*-simple-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*+*-myth-*-*-*-*-*-*+several.trips&strip=1#main-content
http://tinyurl.com/ItAin-tThatSimple
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/08/17/flying_toilet_terror_labs/
krw
Sure. The solutions are too simple: 1) Profile people and 2) give
everyone a tire iron. In this case #1 would have caught the asshole
and if not, #2 would have made sure he didn't survive to try again.
He'll likely get a show trial and conjugal visits, instead.
Raveninghorde
<jjla...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
I agree. They are idiots.
I got caught at an airport the day they caught the liquid bombers.
Huge queues and utter chaos. On that morning 1 terrorist could have
wiped out thousands in an over crowded airport.
Charles
"John Larkin" <jjla...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in message
news:ol3dj5h84quqkdbn6...@4ax.com...
>
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/27/us/27security.html
According to Archie Bunker: "All the airlines have to do to end skyjackings
is arm the passengers."
http://www.tvparty.com/family.html
Vladimir Vassilevsky
John Larkin wrote:
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/27/us/27security.html
>
> So a guy tried to detonate a bomb during the last hour of a flight.
> The TSA morons thus conclude that all terrorists detonate their bombs
> in the last hour, so make it illegal to get out of your seat during
> those 60 minutes. They are clearly assuming that the bombers are
> dumber than they are; I have my doubts.
TSA is not about terrorists. TSA is for prevention of trivial accidents
and liability lawsuits.
> The real issue is why they let a Nigerian, festooned with explosives,
> on a terrorist watch list, onto the plane in the first place.
If he was a terrorist, that plane won't land. He is just another amateur
madman. However, it is a good question why amateurs started causing so
much trouble.
> suppose searching people who look like they might be terrorists would
> be "profiling" or "invasion or privacy" or something.
Socially conscious, environmentally friendly, equal opportunity... other
restrictions apply... you know.
> They did give my 90-year old father a full, very rude pull-aside
> screening because he had a one-way ticket out of Louisiana after
> Katrina. I once got super-harassed and triple searched because my
> ticket had a "payment basis" of "A", and nobody knew what "A" meant. I
> think it meant American Express.
>
> (If they search you three times, they seem to be assuming that the
> first two searches were incompetant.)
They searched you every time because they had to search somebody. Since
you had been searched already, you are already pissed off. So it is
better for them to search you again then to piss off other customers.
> Idiots. Always fighting the last battle.
BTW, during the Soviet war in Afganistan in 80x, there was no single
terrorist attack on Russian land or Russian vessels.
Vladimir Vassilevsky
DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultant
http://www.abvolt.com
krw
<nos...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>
>John Larkin wrote:
>>
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/27/us/27security.html
>>
>> So a guy tried to detonate a bomb during the last hour of a flight.
>> The TSA morons thus conclude that all terrorists detonate their bombs
>> in the last hour, so make it illegal to get out of your seat during
>> those 60 minutes. They are clearly assuming that the bombers are
>> dumber than they are; I have my doubts.
>
>TSA is not about terrorists. TSA is for prevention of trivial accidents
>and liability lawsuits.
>
>> The real issue is why they let a Nigerian, festooned with explosives,
>> on a terrorist watch list, onto the plane in the first place.
>
>If he was a terrorist, that plane won't land. He is just another amateur
>madman. However, it is a good question why amateurs started causing so
>much trouble.
>
>> suppose searching people who look like they might be terrorists would
>> be "profiling" or "invasion or privacy" or something.
>
>Socially conscious, environmentally friendly, equal opportunity... other
>restrictions apply... you know.
"It's our fault..."
"Terrorists are just misunderstood..."
>> They did give my 90-year old father a full, very rude pull-aside
>> screening because he had a one-way ticket out of Louisiana after
>> Katrina. I once got super-harassed and triple searched because my
>> ticket had a "payment basis" of "A", and nobody knew what "A" meant. I
>> think it meant American Express.
>>
>> (If they search you three times, they seem to be assuming that the
>> first two searches were incompetant.)
>
>They searched you every time because they had to search somebody. Since
>you had been searched already, you are already pissed off. So it is
>better for them to search you again then to piss off other customers.
>
>> Idiots. Always fighting the last battle.
>
>BTW, during the Soviet war in Afganistan in 80x, there was no single
>terrorist attack on Russian land or Russian vessels.
Russians aren't known for their coddling of terrorists. There weren't
many Russians kidnapped in the middle east, either. They really don't
give a damn who's "fault" it is or what "they understand". "They"
will understand dead relatives.
PeterD
<jjla...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
>
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/27/us/27security.html
>
>So a guy tried to detonate a bomb during the last hour of a flight.
>The TSA morons thus conclude that all terrorists detonate their bombs
>in the last hour, so make it illegal to get out of your seat during
>those 60 minutes.
I coudl be wrong, but I don't think he got out of his seat to do it,
and as well, neither did the previous failure, either.
> They are clearly assuming that the bombers are
>dumber than they are; I have my doubts.
>
>The real issue is why they let a Nigerian, festooned with explosives,
>on a terrorist watch list, onto the plane in the first place.
See where the flight came from...
>I
>suppose searching people who look like they might be terrorists would
>be "profiling" or "invasion or privacy" or something.
>
>They did give my 90-year old father a full, very rude pull-aside
>screening because he had a one-way ticket out of Louisiana after
>Katrina. I once got super-harassed and triple searched because my
>ticket had a "payment basis" of "A", and nobody knew what "A" meant. I
>think it meant American Express.
>
>(If they search you three times, they seem to be assuming that the
>first two searches were incompetant.)
Well, actually they probably were, but then again, so probably was the
third...
Jamie
Yes, things were so much safer back when it was required by law to
carry a firearm.
It just leads to greater employment opportunities for police and the
like so that we have to pay more taxes and still, the criminals have
all the guns they need and no worries about using them, because they
know the general joe has nothing to shoot back with or would be afraid
to use it in fear of getting sued by the criminals.
It's time to play cowboys and criminals!
Jim Yanik
news:8pbdj59081f7l6j23...@4ax.com:
TSA is a fine example of how US Socialist Healthcare is going to work.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com
mpm
TSA is a complete joke.
They have zero imagination, which is why this crap happens in the
first place.
A couple true "horror" stories:
Both on recent flights in to/ out of DCA
Got to Reagan National, and when x-raying my camera bag, they claimed
they could not "see" through the camera lenses with their x-rays?
Huh?? That's got to be total bullshit.
The solution: x-Ray them 3 times. I guess magically they can see
through the glass on the third attempt. (?)
Also, (same security guard)... I had forgotten about the restriction
on liquids through the x-ray machine.
Turns out I had purchased a soda out of a machine not more than 50
feet from the security line.
The guard said I had to ditch the soda (or drink in on the spot)
because it wasn't "cleared".
Again, huh?!
So, it's OK to have a non-cleared soda available for sale 50 feet from
the x-ray machine, but I can't take that same soda 50-feet in the
other direction?
I guess Diet Coke bottles make good directional projectile
explosives.??
And of course, it begs the question why the rest of the sodas in the
airport weren't similarly "cleared".
More likely, NONE of them are cleared, and the security guard was just
babbeling off a whole bunch of nonsense.
Personally, I've never see any TSA agents checking out the food
stores, execpt to shovel their fat asses with high-carb food.
I guarantee you security can be easily breached at ANY domestic
airport with extremely little imagination.
Bottom line: If you think you are safe as a result of TSA security,
you're crazy.
They may indeed provide the illusion of safety for jello-minded
people, but that's about it.
mpm
> On a sunny day (Sat, 26 Dec 2009 23:05:02 +0000) it happened Adrian C
>
> - Show quoted text -
I once had one of those checkpoint guards do some extra screening on
me...
He sat me down in a chair, had me raise each foot, and he would waive
a wand around my shoes checking for metal.
Of course, the chair was right next to a metal filing cabinet, so the
wand would sound every time it got between my foot and the file
cabinet. (Duh?!)
The solution: x-ray my shoes multiple times.
I did try to explain to the guard what was going on, but he was a
clueless automaton.
As I suspect most TSA personnel are.
I don't feel particularly safe having them on duty.
Poorer, as it relates to taxes, but not safer.
Huge waste of taxpayer money.
-mpm
mpm
> "John Larkin" <jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in
> messagenews:ol3dj5h84quqkdbn6...@4ax.com...
>
> - Show quoted text -
Martin,
The terrorists could educate our security personnel!!
Only, they're too fat and lazy to pay attention. (and/or too stupid
for the training to take hold).
Robert Baer
mpm
> On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 14:45:25 -0800, John Larkin
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
I heard on FOX News that some "former government official" said his
seat choice was no accident - it was near the fuel tank.
Jesus Christ, has anyone at Fox ever flown Delta?
Those guys can't even manage to stop selling the same seat twice (to
two different passengers!)
If anybody thinks the seat was purposely "selected" to do the most
damage, they clearly don't understand how the system works (er, rather
doesn't work).
Beyond which, the notion of seat selection ascribes to the individual
in question a certain intellect not demonstrated by his inability to
detonate the device.
Jim Yanik
news:LqadnZrkH7yNR6vW...@posted.localnet:
It doesn't have to be that massive.
All that's needed is to contain fragments and vent the blast up and out of
the building.
And a system to wash down the passage before the next passenger uses it...
>>
>> Oh, where is that Patent brief....
>>
> ..THAT solution is tooooo simple for government types...
>
--
Bill Sloman
> krw <k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote innews:8pbdj59081f7l6j23...@4ax.com:
>
> > On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 18:48:10 -0600, Vladimir Vassilevsky
> ><nos...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
> >>John Larkin wrote:
<snipped incoherent discussion of airport security>
> TSA is a fine example of how US Socialist Healthcare is going to work.
Jim Yanik takes an example of a thoroughly capitalist airport security
failure - the airports don't pay the screening staff enough to make it
an attractive job, and have them working long shifts so that it is
hard for them to keep their attention on what they are doing - and
uses it to predict how the prospective changes in the US health care
system are going to work.
Since the obvious planned change in the US health care system is to
make sure that more people have health insurance, it isn't obvious how
this is going to make the hospitals work worse than they do at the
moment.
More health insurance probably does mean that more people will go to
their doctors as soon as they feel sick, rather until waiting until
they feel so sick that bankruptcy is the lesser evil, and this may put
more pressure on primary health care, but since it is usually easier
and quicker to treat people when they first get sick, the hospitals
may well end up with less to do.
Europe spends about half as much per head on health care as the US,
and getting at the patients earlier may be part of the reason, though
most authors think that the US wastes more money on roccoco
administrative schemes aimed at saving the insurers from losing money
on patients that they used to be able to shed when they started
needing their insurance (which is a trick that the planned changes are
supposed to be going to block).
--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
David L. Jones
> John Larkin wrote:
>
>> The real issue is why they let a Nigerian, festooned with explosives,
>> on a terrorist watch list, onto the plane in the first place. I
>> suppose searching people who look like they might be terrorists would
>> be "profiling" or "invasion or privacy" or something.
>
> Seen the walk-in explosive detectors they have around the Statue of
> Liberty exhibit? The type that puff your clothes and work out the
> composition of your last spray of beauty product.
I got busted by the NYPD trying to take the worlds smallest swiss army knife
on to Liberty Island, tucked away in my bag.
They said they could hold it for me until I got back, at which point it
would be destroyed in front of me!
The only other option I was given was to go hide it in the park first and
rejoin the line, or take a hike. I took the hike.
I asked if I was allowed to carry the knife on the streets of NY, "Yes Sir,
that's fine. But you can't take it to Liberty Island"
That sealed it for me, Yanks are complete and utter nutters!
Dave.
--
---------------------------------------------
Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog & Podcast:
http://www.eevblog.com
TheM
>> John Larkin wrote:
>> Idiots. Always fighting the last battle.
>
> BTW, during the Soviet war in Afganistan in 80x, there was no single terrorist attack on Russian land or Russian vessels.
Yes, and just how many tourists were coming to USSR during that time daily?
And how many were allowed to travel abroad?
They don't have terrorists in North Korea either.
M
Jan Panteltje
<jef...@email.com> wrote in
<78ae5df1-3f3f-4231...@z4g2000prh.googlegroups.com>:
>
>Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>Well, he mixed the explosives in flight it seems
>>
>I doubt it.
It was in the news that he used a syringe to inject stuff into the stuff he had taped to his body.
YD
<jjla...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> penned this immortal
opus:
The guy, Abdullah bin Whatever, is really a stooge for the security
companies. Since nothing serious has been happening the last couple of
years and there have been doubts over the whole rigmarole, they got
afraid of business slackening off and stirred the pot a bit.
- YD.
--
Remove HAT if replying by mail.
Jim Thompson
<alt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Adrian C wrote:
>> John Larkin wrote:
>>
>>> The real issue is why they let a Nigerian, festooned with explosives,
>>> on a terrorist watch list, onto the plane in the first place. I
>>> suppose searching people who look like they might be terrorists would
>>> be "profiling" or "invasion or privacy" or something.
>>
>> Seen the walk-in explosive detectors they have around the Statue of
>> Liberty exhibit? The type that puff your clothes and work out the
>> composition of your last spray of beauty product.
>
>I got busted by the NYPD trying to take the worlds smallest swiss army knife
>on to Liberty Island, tucked away in my bag.
>They said they could hold it for me until I got back, at which point it
>would be destroyed in front of me!
>The only other option I was given was to go hide it in the park first and
>rejoin the line, or take a hike. I took the hike.
>I asked if I was allowed to carry the knife on the streets of NY, "Yes Sir,
>that's fine. But you can't take it to Liberty Island"
>
>That sealed it for me, Yanks are complete and utter nutters!
>
>Dave.
I've lost three of those 2-3/8", confiscated by TSA.
But I got a carry-on with a big-ass corkscrew right through their
screening ;-)
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
Help save the environment!
Please dispose of socialism responsibly!
Anssi Saari
> If he was a terrorist, that plane won't land. He is just another
> amateur madman.
Yes, at least the NY Times said the guy was in the bathroom for 20
minutes, presumably tinkering with his bomb, then went back to his
seat to set it off. Can't imagine why, makes more sense to set it off
in the bathroom. Well, maybe he forgot to bring something to the
bathroom?
> However, it is a good question why amateurs started causing so much
> trouble.
Maybe it's just copycatting? Like the failed attempt at a follow-up in
London Underground with bombs that didn't work?
RFI-EMI-GUY
> John Larkin wrote:
>
>> The real issue is why they let a Nigerian, festooned with explosives,
>> on a terrorist watch list, onto the plane in the first place. I
>> suppose searching people who look like they might be terrorists would
>> be "profiling" or "invasion or privacy" or something.
>
> Seen the walk-in explosive detectors they have around the Statue of
> Liberty exhibit? The type that puff your clothes and work out the
> composition of your last spray of beauty product.
>
>
>
> But I have a cheaper alternative.
>
> A chamber constructed of a few tons of reinforced concrete and lead is
> placed just after the departure gate. Each passenger walks through it,
> one at a time, and is quickly subjected to various EMC and other stimuli
> that would naturally set off their explosive device if carrying. The
> innocent pass through unscathed, and the miscreants would be immediately
> caught and dealt with.
>
>
I like your idea, of course, it would have to have instant wash down and
flush cycle between "incidents" so as not to unduly delay boarding.
Also it would "turn off" all those annoying "PED's" folks bring on board
as well!
--
Joe Leikhim K4SAT
"The RFI-EMI-GUY"�
"Use only Genuine Interocitor Parts" Tom Servo ;-P
Jim Thompson
What's scary is the possibility that several passengers, over several
flights of the same plane, manage to carry on and stash components to
build a bomb in the john :-(
Why was he in the john for 20 minutes?
There has to be some way to dispose of these Islamists that prevents
them from entering their "heaven" and getting all those virgins (*)
...
Boil them to death in pork fat ?:-)
(*) What good is a virgin... I want a "cougar" ;-)
RFI-EMI-GUY
> snip
>
> I got busted by the NYPD trying to take the worlds smallest swiss army knife
> on to Liberty Island, tucked away in my bag.
> They said they could hold it for me until I got back, at which point it
> would be destroyed in front of me!
> The only other option I was given was to go hide it in the park first and
> rejoin the line, or take a hike. I took the hike.
> I asked if I was allowed to carry the knife on the streets of NY, "Yes Sir,
> that's fine. But you can't take it to Liberty Island"
>
> That sealed it for me, Yanks are complete and utter nutters!
>
> Dave.
>
Maybe they watched too many Crocodile Dundee movies?
Same thing happened to me at the airport on Long Island. I had a tiny
Swiss Army Knife tucked into my shaving kit. The blade was smaller than
what is on my razor (which was permitted). The X-ray screener found it
and searched the bag for it. I will say that the TA folks at LI are on
their toes.
It has gotten to the point where you can't carry anything sharp anymore
and there has been "serious" discussion as to banning boy scouts from
carrying knives. Its not looking good for future generations.
Jan Panteltje
<Rhyo...@NETTALLY.COM> wrote in
<4b37d52e$0$4863$9a6e...@unlimited.newshosting.com>:
Yup, had to turn in my swiss knife too, asked if they could keep
it for when I returmed, but they said it would all be destroyed.
Such a waste of a good tool.
Wonder what is next, ballpen? pencils? hairpins?
I think I will no longer fly, seems if you are on the toilet too long
they arrest you too these days :-)
Maybe those big cruises from Europe to America?
Takes longer, but more freedom and entertainment.
OTOH on some everybody got sick from something I did read.
Spehro Pefhany
<em...@here.invalid> wrote:
>John Larkin wrote:
>
>> The real issue is why they let a Nigerian, festooned with explosives,
>> on a terrorist watch list, onto the plane in the first place. I
>> suppose searching people who look like they might be terrorists would
>> be "profiling" or "invasion or privacy" or something.
>
>Seen the walk-in explosive detectors they have around the Statue of
>Liberty exhibit? The type that puff your clothes and work out the
>composition of your last spray of beauty product.
>
>They don't have those in many airports yet. Maybe they should....
>
>
>But I have a cheaper alternative.
>
>A chamber constructed of a few tons of reinforced concrete and lead is
>placed just after the departure gate. Each passenger walks through it,
>one at a time, and is quickly subjected to various EMC and other stimuli
>that would naturally set off their explosive device if carrying. The
>innocent pass through unscathed, and the miscreants would be immediately
>caught and dealt with.
Of course that would not have prevented a single incident so far, but
it might generate handsome income for the companies mfg them. There
are many such opportunities around when almost unlimited US-government
funds are available (don't ask). Some of them will work some of the
time, but most assume that the adversary is stupid or sloppy, which
stretches my sense of ethics. You'd almost never be able to set off a
high explosive with anything that wouldn't kill the passengers, which
pretty much defeats the purpose.
It's possible to hide >1kg of very stable high explosives in body
cavities. That's enough to bring down a plane, if removed and placed
well. They are not easy to detonate- allegedly high explosives were
used (carefully) for cooking fuel during the Vietnam war. But I
suppose the detonator could be similarly hidden. I suspect this
"aspirational" al-Qaeda knucklehead didn't have the detonator working
properly, as his PETN seemed to burn well enough.
Countermeasures? Ultrasounds have been used to detect kg size loads of
drugs inside people. Imagine picking up your luggage with lube smeared
all over your lower regions, and you're not even coming back from a
"conference" in SFO...
Or just equip every plane with the next best thing to Rambo-- Dutch
filmmaker Jasper Schuringa, hero of the day, who can fly through the
air and tackle bad guys from across aisles and save the meek folks
cowering in their seats.
>Oh, where is that Patent brief....
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
sp...@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
Jim Yanik
news:vg3y6ko...@pepper.modeemi.cs.tut.fi:
> Vladimir Vassilevsky <nos...@nowhere.com> writes:
>
>> If he was a terrorist, that plane won't land. He is just another
>> amateur madman.
>
> Yes, at least the NY Times said the guy was in the bathroom for 20
> minutes, presumably tinkering with his bomb, then went back to his
> seat to set it off. Can't imagine why, makes more sense to set it off
> in the bathroom.
they want to detonate close to the wings,where the fuel tanks are,to damage
the wing structure and ignite the fuel vapors.
IIRC,they already had one guy blow out a lavatory in flight,not much
damage,plane landed safely.
> Well, maybe he forgot to bring something to the
> bathroom?
>
>> However, it is a good question why amateurs started causing so much
>> trouble.
amateurs are less likely to be on watch lists.
(not that it was any impediment to this guy...)
But it's appearing that he does have some connection to al-Qaida in Yemen.
Yemen is turning out to be the newest "Afghanistan",lair of A-Q.
>
> Maybe it's just copycatting? Like the failed attempt at a follow-up in
> London Underground with bombs that didn't work?
>
--
Jim Yanik
news:4b37d52e$0$4863$9a6e...@unlimited.newshosting.com:
you have to remember that the 9-11 hijackers used BOX CUTTERS,which don't
have very long blades either.I've got a box cutter that is very thin and
compact,uses a regular single-edge razor blade.A screener might not
recognize it for what it really is.
I prefer Archie Bunker's solution;
hand out handguns to everyone aboard;when the bad guys stand up and
attack,everyone else draws and shoots them full of holes.
(actually,to allow those ODCs -with concealed carry permits- to carry
aboard AC;they already know the laws concerning shooting,have shown some
level of competency with a gun,and have amassed an exemplary record of
safety and lawfulness.They have shown themselves to NOT be any problem.)
ODC= ordinary decent citizen
David L. Jones
We have a ridiculous law against carrying knives here in Australia, they
bought it in quite a few years ago. Almost anything with a blade is banned
in theory, even the smallest keyring swiss army knife.
But the exemptions are:
1) Work purposes
2) Sport
3) If you are a knife collector
4) For peeling fruit
and my favourite 5) "Religous purposes"!
So if I get busted with my swiss army knife in my pocket I just say I'm on
my way to work while geocaching (sport), I have a collection (I do
actually), I just ate some peeled fruit, and the flying spaghetti monster
said I must carry one. I'm covered on all five counts, it's up to them to
prove otherwise :-P
David L. Jones
Oh, you mean the Fox News owned by Rupert Murdoch. The same Fox News that
spins every story far right to help ensure that the poor hapless Americans
stay perpetually scared of this so called threat of "terrorism"?
They do a good job, don't they!
George.W and cronies would be proud.
Ah, America, the only place were it's always Nineteen Eighty-Four
David L. Jones
Shhh, better not tell'em about the Mentos you can buy at the airport
convenience store.
Combine that with Diet Coke and you might be looking at 20 years to life!
Jan Panteltje
<jya...@abuse.gov> wrote in <Xns9CEED514B6872...@216.168.3.44>:
>I prefer Archie Bunker's solution;
>hand out handguns to everyone aboard;when the bad guys stand up and
>attack,everyone else draws and shoots them full of holes.
I am not sure how well a plane would take some stray bullets...
remember the movie 'Goldfinger'?
PeterD
They do just fine... Don't confuse movies with real life. Many planes
have been 'shot full of holes' and none have crashed from
decompression...
PeterD
Consider this, both Ried <sp?> and this latest lunatic failed
completely--one would think they'd get the message: "I don't want you
blowing up or killing innocent people..." -- God.
Jan Panteltje
<pet...@hipson.net> wrote in <2kchj5ptl0si10fol...@4ax.com>:
But Golfinger got sucked out of a boken window :-)
Vladimir Vassilevsky
PeterD wrote:
> Consider this, both Ried <sp?> and this latest lunatic failed
> completely--one would think they'd get the message: "I don't want you
> blowing up or killing innocent people..." -- God.
That raises another question: if plane bombing is really such big of an
issue. How many planes were blown? How it compares to hijacks,
accidents, etc?
VLV
Jim Thompson
<alt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>mpm wrote:
[snip]
>>
>> I heard on FOX News that some "former government official" said his
>> seat choice was no accident - it was near the fuel tank.
>
>Oh, you mean the Fox News owned by Rupert Murdoch. The same Fox News that
>spins every story far right to help ensure that the poor hapless Americans
>stay perpetually scared of this so called threat of "terrorism"?
>They do a good job, don't they!
>George.W and cronies would be proud.
>
>Ah, America, the only place were it's always Nineteen Eighty-Four
>
>Dave.
Come on, Dave! 'Fess up, you've _never_ever_ listened to Fox Talk. I
listen via the Web using my Roku Soundbridge...
mms://a138.l1387324137.c13873.g.lm.akamaistream.net/D/138/13873/v0001/reflector:24137
Try it for a week, then tell me what you heard that was biased (except
for John Gibson... he gets his jollies from "N-word" baiting, though I
can't really say his questions are biased... he's just drawing out and
demonstrating their ignorance... especially amusing when he asks _why_
they voted for Obama ;-)
Hell... Fox even carries sickening liberal nutcase Alan Colmes...
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
What horrifies me is that an engineering graduate from a top UK
university can't even make a decent bomb.
--
Dirk
http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/onetribe - Occult Talk Show
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
> Adrian C wrote:
>> John Larkin wrote:
>>
>>> on a terrorist watch list, onto the plane in the first place. I
>>> suppose searching people who look like they might be terrorists would
>>> be "profiling" or "invasion or privacy" or something.
>>
>> Liberty exhibit? The type that puff your clothes and work out the
>> composition of your last spray of beauty product.
>>
>> They don't have those in many airports yet. Maybe they should....
>>
>>
>> But I have a cheaper alternative.
>>
>> A chamber constructed of a few tons of reinforced concrete and lead is
>> placed just after the departure gate. Each passenger walks through it,
>> one at a time, and is quickly subjected to various EMC and other
>> stimuli that would naturally set off their explosive device if
>> carrying. The innocent pass through unscathed, and the miscreants
>> would be immediately caught and dealt with.
>>
>>
And after all the pacemakers have exploded and metal fillings in
people's teeth turned red hot...
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
On the whole conspiracy thing, I wonder how many AQ cells are actually
CIA run in order to sweep up the wannabes and get them to set their
balls on fire in mid flight.
John Larkin
<dirk....@gmail.com> wrote:
>Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> On a sunny day (Sat, 26 Dec 2009 16:05:56 -0800 (PST)) it happened JeffM
>> <jef...@email.com> wrote in
>> <78ae5df1-3f3f-4231...@z4g2000prh.googlegroups.com>:
>>
>>> Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>> Well, he mixed the explosives in flight it seems
>>>>
>>> I doubt it.
>>
>> It was in the news that he used a syringe to inject stuff into the stuff he had taped to his body.
>
>What horrifies me is that an engineering graduate from a top UK
>university can't even make a decent bomb.
Perhaps his degree was in Computer Science.
Jon
Jim Yanik
news:2kchj5ptl0si10fol...@4ax.com:
dozens of holes,and the cabin pressure regulator would just close up a
little bit,it's huge compared to 0.5" bullet holes.People probably would
not even notice a pressure drop.
Witness that Aloha flight that lost a fair part of it's skin and still
landed with only one casualty;an unbelted flight attendant who got sucked
out when the skin peeled back.
all the really important stuff has backup systems,and is UNDER the
passenger deck,while bullets would be flying in the horizontal plane.
and the odds of hitting and actually damaging anything critical are
TINY.Don't forget that there's all sorts of baggage and shipping under
there,too.
I can't recall how many people have tried to use the "explosive
decompression" fallacy to support their position! ;-)
Besides,then why did authorities begin using Sky Marshals with handguns
loaded with Speer Gold Dot JHP ammo?(they know they might have to shoot
THRU a seat back or bulkhead.)
Once it's well known that armed people are aboard,then the chances of
successful hijacking are too low and thus are not attempted.Terrorists move
on to softer targets.
You can get armed people -at no expense- if you allow ODCs with carry
permits to fly with their weapons. Maybe after an extra class on airplane
defense.
What authorities are loathe to admit is that FEW flights in the US actually
have Marshalls -on board-,there's too few to cover the 25,000 daily
flights.
Jim Yanik
news:5mchj511rd1qmeoer...@4ax.com:
THEY failed,but the next guy may not.
They DID succeed in getting their bombs on board,and "detonating" them.
LUCKILY,their bombs didn't work. Just good LUCK.
But searching old ladies and making everyone go thru lengthy lines is
ridiculous;they need to PROFILE and closely search the most likely
suspects.
Jan Panteltje
<pet...@hipson.net> wrote in <2kchj5ptl0si10fol...@4ax.com>:
>On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 11:53:36 GMT, Jan Panteltje
Actually, come to think of it, there have been several fatal crashes due to decompression.
One big one was IIRC a DC10 that had the cargo door pop out, the pressure difference broke the floor,
ripped the control cables routed in that floor, and it crashed.
There also was not so long ago a small private jet, it depressurised, the crew got unconscious,
it kept flying on auto pilot until it ran out of fuel and crashed.
Then a year or 2 ago a Greek plane decompressed and crashed with all passengers aboard.
I am sure there are zillion more cases.
Jim Yanik
wrote in news:lvjhj59hq0v6ufv4f...@4ax.com:
> On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 22:04:36 +1100, "David L. Jones"
><alt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>mpm wrote:
> [snip]
>>>
>>> I heard on FOX News that some "former government official" said his
>>> seat choice was no accident - it was near the fuel tank.
>>
>>Oh, you mean the Fox News owned by Rupert Murdoch. The same Fox News
>>that spins every story far right to help ensure that the poor hapless
>>Americans stay perpetually scared of this so called threat of
>>"terrorism"? They do a good job, don't they!
>>George.W and cronies would be proud.
Actually,OBAMA and the DemocRATs have been far better at spreading
fear.Just look at their healthcare work("1000's of people are dying without
healthcare"...),and the carbon controls issue;"oh,the ice is melting...."
and they are SUPERB at telling the public they are doing one thing,and then
doing the opposite.LIARS,plain and simple.
Dave wouldn't know "spin" if it fell on his head.
>>
>>Ah, America, the only place were it's always Nineteen Eighty-Four
>>
>>Dave.
>
> Come on, Dave! 'Fess up, you've _never_ever_ listened to Fox Talk. I
> listen via the Web using my Roku Soundbridge...
>
> mms://a138.l1387324137.c13873.g.lm.akamaistream.net/D/138/13873/v0001/r
> eflector:24137
>
> Try it for a week, then tell me what you heard that was biased (except
> for John Gibson... he gets his jollies from "N-word" baiting, though I
> can't really say his questions are biased... he's just drawing out and
> demonstrating their ignorance... especially amusing when he asks _why_
> they voted for Obama ;-)
>
> Hell... Fox even carries sickening liberal nutcase Alan Colmes...
>
> http://www.alan.com/
>
> ...Jim Thompson
these idiots can't discern between news reporting and opinion pieces.
the OTHER networks don't even bother with differentiating between opinion
and reporting;they put their opinion into every "report",without any
disclaimer or notice.
Jan Panteltje
NeoPax <dirk....@gmail.com> wrote in <7ps2ld...@mid.individual.net>:
>Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> On a sunny day (Sat, 26 Dec 2009 16:05:56 -0800 (PST)) it happened JeffM
>> <jef...@email.com> wrote in
>> <78ae5df1-3f3f-4231...@z4g2000prh.googlegroups.com>:
>>
>>> Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>> Well, he mixed the explosives in flight it seems
>>>>
>>> I doubt it.
>>
>> It was in the news that he used a syringe to inject stuff into the stuff he had taped to his body.
>
>What horrifies me is that an engineering graduate from a top UK
>university can't even make a decent bomb.
Well, not enough practice lessons I guess:-)
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
Mine was in physics, and I could have done a lot better even as a teenager.
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
> On a sunny day (Mon, 28 Dec 2009 15:54:22 +0000) it happened Dirk Bruere at
> NeoPax <dirk....@gmail.com> wrote in <7ps2ld...@mid.individual.net>:
>
>> Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>> On a sunny day (Sat, 26 Dec 2009 16:05:56 -0800 (PST)) it happened JeffM
>>> <jef...@email.com> wrote in
>>> <78ae5df1-3f3f-4231...@z4g2000prh.googlegroups.com>:
>>>
>>>> Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>> Well, he mixed the explosives in flight it seems
>>>>>
>>>> I doubt it.
>>> It was in the news that he used a syringe to inject stuff into the stuff he had taped to his body.
>> What horrifies me is that an engineering graduate from a top UK
>> university can't even make a decent bomb.
>
> Well, not enough practice lessons I guess:-)
The rumor is that the HE was PETN.
Why he would want to inject some other chemical, given its already
adequate sensitivity, is beyond me.
And if someone gave me that mix, I would at least want to test some of
it beforehand.
PeterD
<pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On a sunny day (Mon, 28 Dec 2009 08:29:12 -0500) it happened PeterD
><pet...@hipson.net> wrote in <2kchj5ptl0si10fol...@4ax.com>:
>
>>On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 11:53:36 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>><pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On a sunny day (Sun, 27 Dec 2009 19:55:24 -0600) it happened Jim Yanik
>>><jya...@abuse.gov> wrote in <Xns9CEED514B6872...@216.168.3.44>:
>>>
>>>>I prefer Archie Bunker's solution;
>>>>hand out handguns to everyone aboard;when the bad guys stand up and
>>>>attack,everyone else draws and shoots them full of holes.
>>>
>>>
>>>I am not sure how well a plane would take some stray bullets...
>>>remember the movie 'Goldfinger'?
>>
>>They do just fine... Don't confuse movies with real life. Many planes
>>have been 'shot full of holes' and none have crashed from
>>decompression...
>
>Actually, come to think of it, there have been several fatal crashes due to decompression.
>One big one was IIRC a DC10 that had the cargo door pop out, the pressure difference broke the floor,
>ripped the control cables routed in that floor, and it crashed.
Yes, but that was not a bullet hole. I guess I wasn't as clear as I
should have been.
>There also was not so long ago a small private jet, it depressurised, the crew got unconscious,
>it kept flying on auto pilot until it ran out of fuel and crashed.
The golfer, forget his name... Something went terribly wrong, but the
plane didn't suffer catestrophic damage until it fell victim to the
effects of gravity...
>Then a year or 2 ago a Greek plane decompressed and crashed with all passengers aboard.
>I am sure there are zillion more cases.
Again, the plane was basically flyable, but the crew was not!
But if we go back to the original point, that a bullet hole will cause
a plane to explode because it is pressurized, I think we can safely
dismiss that is very, very unlikely, based on previous experience with
bullet hole riddled aircraft. You would have to hit something vital to
the functioning of the aircraft, such as a non-redundant power source.
And non-redundant, critical things on aircrafts are not common.
But...
It sure looks good in the movies!!! <g>
PeterD
How can we know? In most cases they well might be unexplained,
especially if over water. But we do know it has happened, at least one
time.
PeterD
wrote:
>PeterD <pet...@hipson.net> wrote in
>news:5mchj511rd1qmeoer...@4ax.com:
>>>
>> Consider this, both Ried <sp?> and this latest lunatic failed
>> completely--one would think they'd get the message: "I don't want you
>> blowing up or killing innocent people..." -- God.
>>
>
>THEY failed,but the next guy may not.
>They DID succeed in getting their bombs on board,and "detonating" them.
>
>LUCKILY,their bombs didn't work. Just good LUCK.
>
>But searching old ladies and making everyone go thru lengthy lines is
>ridiculous;they need to PROFILE and closely search the most likely
>suspects.
WHat is worrysome is that there are few if any ways to 'test' for
explosives such as this...
Personaly I think that we should all be required to fly in the nude,
with NO carryon baggage allowed. That would resolve so many things,
eliminate virtualliy all risks... A simple metal detector for internal
metal would suffice.
Next we'll be seeing bombs either swallowed or surgically implanted.
Jan Panteltje
<pet...@hipson.net> wrote in <m97ij5d0fm7fh4j8t...@4ax.com>:
>
>But if we go back to the original point, that a bullet hole will cause
>a plane to explode because it is pressurized,
I do not think tha tever was the original point.
Not even in Goldfinger.
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
Myth Busters tried it.
A bullet hole will not cause structural failure in an airliner.
Nor will anyone get sucked out through a small window.
Martin Brown
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/27/us/27security.html
>
> So a guy tried to detonate a bomb during the last hour of a flight.
> The TSA morons thus conclude that all terrorists detonate their bombs
> in the last hour, so make it illegal to get out of your seat during
> those 60 minutes. They are clearly assuming that the bombers are
> dumber than they are; I have my doubts.
This guy appeared to have been quite bright and from a good family if
his educational record and background checks are to be believed.
But he obviously didn't tick the boxes on the US Visa application marked
"do you intend to overthrow the government of the USA or assassinate the
President?". It is a standing joke in the ROW that only an American
would be dumb enough to tick those boxes. It is rumoured that Oscar
Wilde wrote in earlier days "Sole purpose of visit" in answer to this
question. AFAIK no US president has been killed by a foreigner to date.
http://www.cvni.net/radio/e2k/e2k025/e2k25news.html
(under Visa Waiver Program)
It is an insane question since there are two possible outcomes to an
attempted coup. Either the coup succeeds and the question is irrelevant
or it fails and the perp gets another 5 years for not answering a Visa
question added to his 200 year or death sentence to run concurrently.
So clearly despite him being on a UK no-fly terrorist watch list the US
authorities were quite happy to let him fly to the USA.
> The real issue is why they let a Nigerian, festooned with explosives,
> on a terrorist watch list, onto the plane in the first place. I
> suppose searching people who look like they might be terrorists would
> be "profiling" or "invasion or privacy" or something.
What I find more amazing is that he went through Amsterdam Schiphol -
there are full bodyscan booths on most UK flights and I assume on US
ones too so it is amazing he got through. Having said that they are
nowhere near as sharp as London Heathrow. US carriers have insane levels
of personal details they demand ages in advance so there are serious
questions to be asked about why the dozy bastards did not notice him.
But I could not get a credit card through at Schiphol, so body moulded
PETN seems highly unlikely to get through iff he went through the right
scanners. And someone on a terrorist watch list should be getting *very*
well checked. There is a clear systematic failing somewhere that needs
sorting out for all our sakes.
>
> They did give my 90-year old father a full, very rude pull-aside
> screening because he had a one-way ticket out of Louisiana after
> Katrina. I once got super-harassed and triple searched because my
> ticket had a "payment basis" of "A", and nobody knew what "A" meant. I
> think it meant American Express.
One way tickets are always suspicious. You said you wanted profiling.
>
> (If they search you three times, they seem to be assuming that the
> first two searches were incompetant.)
If you carry unusual things in handluggage, or travel strange
itineraries these days you will flag up as suspicious.
>
> Idiots. Always fighting the last battle.
Pretty much. The authorities have to be on their guard all the time - as
the IRA famously said "we only have to get lucky once". And they damn
nearly did with the highly sophisticated Brighton conference bombing.
The most important thing to find out now is did he go through the right
sort of body scanner and if not why not?
Schiphol had the right kit and operators trained to use it so why didn't
they see the problem before he left the ground?
Regards,
Martin Brown
Jan Panteltje
NeoPax <dirk....@gmail.com> wrote in <7psps4...@mid.individual.net>:
>Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> On a sunny day (Mon, 28 Dec 2009 16:07:39 -0500) it happened PeterD
>> <pet...@hipson.net> wrote in <m97ij5d0fm7fh4j8t...@4ax.com>:
>>> But if we go back to the original point, that a bullet hole will cause
>>> a plane to explode because it is pressurized,
>>
>> I do not think tha tever was the original point.
>> Not even in Goldfinger.
>
>Myth Busters tried it.
>A bullet hole will not cause structural failure in an airliner.
>Nor will anyone get sucked out through a small window.
Goldfinger was big and fat, so it was a big window,
else he would not have fit through it.
:-)
Jim Yanik
news:gj7ij51vmnse9ntks...@4ax.com:
> On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 12:07:16 -0600, Jim Yanik <jya...@abuse.gov>
> wrote:
>
>>PeterD <pet...@hipson.net> wrote in
>>news:5mchj511rd1qmeoer...@4ax.com:
>>>>
>>> Consider this, both Ried <sp?> and this latest lunatic failed
>>> completely--one would think they'd get the message: "I don't want you
>>> blowing up or killing innocent people..." -- God.
>>>
>>
>>THEY failed,but the next guy may not.
>>They DID succeed in getting their bombs on board,and "detonating" them.
>>
>>LUCKILY,their bombs didn't work. Just good LUCK.
>>
>>But searching old ladies and making everyone go thru lengthy lines is
>>ridiculous;they need to PROFILE and closely search the most likely
>>suspects.
>
> WHat is worrysome is that there are few if any ways to 'test' for
> explosives such as this...
>
> Personaly I think that we should all be required to fly in the nude,
Personally,I don't think you thought at all on that one.
> with NO carryon baggage allowed. That would resolve so many things,
> eliminate virtualliy all risks... A simple metal detector for internal
> metal would suffice.
>
> Next we'll be seeing bombs either swallowed or surgically implanted.
I'd rather they PROFILED passengers first.
It works for Israel and El Al Airlines.
Of course,THEY take it seriously.
Jim Yanik
news:m97ij5d0fm7fh4j8t...@4ax.com:
> On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 18:08:34 GMT, Jan Panteltje
><pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>On a sunny day (Mon, 28 Dec 2009 08:29:12 -0500) it happened PeterD
>><pet...@hipson.net> wrote in
>><2kchj5ptl0si10fol...@4ax.com>:
>>
>>>On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 11:53:36 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>>><pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On a sunny day (Sun, 27 Dec 2009 19:55:24 -0600) it happened Jim
>>>>Yanik <jya...@abuse.gov> wrote in
>>>><Xns9CEED514B6872...@216.168.3.44>:
>>>>
>>>>>I prefer Archie Bunker's solution;
>>>>>hand out handguns to everyone aboard;when the bad guys stand up and
>>>>>attack,everyone else draws and shoots them full of holes.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I am not sure how well a plane would take some stray bullets...
>>>>remember the movie 'Goldfinger'?
>>>
>>>They do just fine... Don't confuse movies with real life. Many planes
>>>have been 'shot full of holes' and none have crashed from
>>>decompression...
>>
>>Actually, come to think of it, there have been several fatal crashes
>>due to decompression. One big one was IIRC a DC10 that had the cargo
>>door pop out, the pressure difference broke the floor, ripped the
>>control cables routed in that floor, and it crashed.
A MAJOR structural malfunction.
>
> Yes, but that was not a bullet hole. I guess I wasn't as clear as I
> should have been.
>
>>There also was not so long ago a small private jet, it depressurised,
>>the crew got unconscious, it kept flying on auto pilot until it ran
>>out of fuel and crashed.
>
> The golfer, forget his name... Something went terribly wrong, but the
> plane didn't suffer catestrophic damage until it fell victim to the
> effects of gravity...
Payne Stewart.
the oxygen supply failed,the pilot and passengers suffered anoxia and were
rendered unconscious.
>
>>Then a year or 2 ago a Greek plane decompressed and crashed with all
>>passengers aboard.
WHY did it "decompress"? not from any bullet holes.
>>I am sure there are zillion more cases.
you really haven't CITED any.
You use the term "decompress" pretty easily,though.
>
> Again, the plane was basically flyable, but the crew was not!
>
> But if we go back to the original point, that a bullet hole will cause
> a plane to explode because it is pressurized, I think we can safely
> dismiss that is very, very unlikely, based on previous experience with
> bullet hole riddled aircraft. You would have to hit something vital to
> the functioning of the aircraft, such as a non-redundant power source.
> And non-redundant, critical things on aircrafts are not common.
>
> But...
>
> It sure looks good in the movies!!! <g>
--
Jim Yanik
news:ih7ij590bn4mvctia...@4ax.com:
ISTR a plane from (or to) the Phillipines was a "test run" for the bombers.
Another one,ISTR a Japanese guy got blown thru the fuselage by a bomb.
If the terrorists ever engineer a working bomb,they would do a lot more
plane bombings,of course. Probably all on the same day,just like on 9-11.
Don Klipstein
>On a sunny day (Mon, 28 Dec 2009 08:29:12 -0500) it happened PeterD
><pet...@hipson.net> wrote in <2kchj5ptl0si10fol...@4ax.com>:
>
>>On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 11:53:36 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>><pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On a sunny day (Sun, 27 Dec 2009 19:55:24 -0600) it happened Jim Yanik
>>><jya...@abuse.gov> wrote in <Xns9CEED514B6872...@216.168.3.44>:
>>>
>>>>I prefer Archie Bunker's solution;
>>>>hand out handguns to everyone aboard;when the bad guys stand up and
>>>>attack,everyone else draws and shoots them full of holes.
>>>
>>>
>>>I am not sure how well a plane would take some stray bullets...
>>>remember the movie 'Goldfinger'?
>>
>>They do just fine... Don't confuse movies with real life. Many planes
>>have been 'shot full of holes' and none have crashed from
>>decompression...
>
>Actually, come to think of it, there have been several fatal crashes due
>to decompression.
>One big one was IIRC a DC10 that had the cargo door pop out, the
>pressure difference broke the floor, ripped the control cables routed in
>that floor, and it crashed.
Not a problem with smaller holes such as bullet holes or a broken
window. Control cables may need floors that deflect all bullets from any
gun permitted on board. (Bullets must be no more penetrating than
standard issue ones for police service handguns in your choice of major
city police department, maybe preferably hollowpoint or fragmenting.)
>There also was not so long ago a small private jet, it depressurised, the
>crew got unconscious, it kept flying on auto pilot until it ran out of
>fuel and crashed.
I would think that commercial airline pilots have oxygen masks and know
how to use them. The passengers are briefed on those things before
takeoff on every flight.
>Then a year or 2 ago a Greek plane decompressed and crashed with all
>passengers aboard.
How?
>I am sure there are zillion more cases.
Terrorism gets me in a mood to support armed sky marshalls, crew willing
to carry guns to be allowed to do so, and to allow passengers with carry
permits from any state with both a criminal background check requirement
and a shooting proficiency requirement (or who are or were police officers
or military members trained in packing heat) to pack heat.
- Don Klipstein (d...@misty.com)
Don Klipstein
How about that concrete-walled RF blaster on the way to the plane?
Nude bomb-carrier gets a closed-casket funeral, cremation or a memorial
service, and the offender's next-of-kin gets a bill for scraping from
the "detonating room" surfaces and cleanup and collecting the offender's
remains!
Nude passengers should have the option of having their clothes inspected
and cleared to wear on board as opposed to being diverted to the luggage
hold, or at least renting cleared clothes from the airline or TSA. They
may have embarassing non-explosive body features, and USA has a lot of
airline passengers who would refuse to fly nude for religious reasons. I
suspect the airlines would get in or successfully lobby for a way to keep
such people as fare-paying passengers.
Keep in mind that the 9-11 hijackers did not have bombs, but boxcutters.
Maybe flight attendants need martial arts training and training in use
of handguns and to get concealed carry permits and be allowed to put
handguns (with hollowpoint or fragmenting bullets) to use on board planes?
- Don Klipstein (d...@misty.com)
Jan Panteltje
d...@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote in
<slrnhjif5...@manx.misty.com>:
>>Then a year or 2 ago a Greek plane decompressed and crashed with all
>>passengers aboard.
>
> How?
Bad maintenance.
>>I am sure there are zillion more cases.
>
> Terrorism gets me in a mood to support armed sky marshalls, crew willing
>to carry guns to be allowed to do so, and to allow passengers with carry
>permits from any state with both a criminal background check requirement
>and a shooting proficiency requirement (or who are or were police officers
>or military members trained in packing heat) to pack heat.
>
> - Don Klipstein (d...@misty.com)
Yaa, I have decided to take a cruise next time.
Takes longer, but more freedom, no hassle,
and better entertainment.
F*ck the paranoid airlines and paranoid US.
And *never* forget that this is what you get when you start mass murdering Iraqis
Afghanistans...
And for what?
For some multinationals who will then charge you more for the oil.
All to get the oil price up.
US is just being used.
Baron
Yea, but it made good cinema though...
--
Best Regards:
Baron.
Jan Panteltje
<baron....@linuxmaniac.nospam.net> wrote in
<hhbfn3$98h$2...@news.eternal-september.org>:
Oh yes, I have it on disk :-)
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
> On a sunny day (Mon, 28 Dec 2009 22:30:29 +0000) it happened Dirk Bruere at
> NeoPax <dirk....@gmail.com> wrote in <7psps4...@mid.individual.net>:
>
>> Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>> On a sunny day (Mon, 28 Dec 2009 16:07:39 -0500) it happened PeterD
>>> <pet...@hipson.net> wrote in <m97ij5d0fm7fh4j8t...@4ax.com>:
>>>> But if we go back to the original point, that a bullet hole will cause
>>>> a plane to explode because it is pressurized,
>>> I do not think tha tever was the original point.
>>> Not even in Goldfinger.
>> Myth Busters tried it.
>> A bullet hole will not cause structural failure in an airliner.
>> Nor will anyone get sucked out through a small window.
>
> Goldfinger was big and fat, so it was a big window,
> else he would not have fit through it.
> :-)
I have heard of some fat woman getting her innards sucked out while
flushing the loo at 30,000 ft. at the same time as making an airtight fit.
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
Well, all you have to do is guess what is worse than a small amount of
explosive on a plane and you can see where the next "unexpected" attack
is coming from.
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
Their technical incompetence never ceases to amaze me.
And that's just their engineering graduates.
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
Good idea.
That way the terrorists don't have to bring their own guns.
The only safe thing to do is strap all passengers in and lock them down
and not take off until they are all anesthetized.
Nico Coesel
>The most important thing to find out now is did he go through the right
>sort of body scanner and if not why not?
>
>Schiphol had the right kit and operators trained to use it so why didn't
>they see the problem before he left the ground?
Actually Schiphol has the most sophisticated version but they are not
allowed to be used because of privacy regulations. I once attended a
demonstration of a prototype body scanner and I must say it works very
well. If someone has something strapped to his/her body, the body
scanner will reveal it.
--
Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
indicates you are not using the right tools...
nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
--------------------------------------------------------------
Michael A. Terrell
Anssi Saari wrote:
>
> Vladimir Vassilevsky <nos...@nowhere.com> writes:
>
> > If he was a terrorist, that plane won't land. He is just another
> > amateur madman.
>
> Yes, at least the NY Times said the guy was in the bathroom for 20
> minutes, presumably tinkering with his bomb, then went back to his
> seat to set it off. Can't imagine why, makes more sense to set it off
> in the bathroom. Well, maybe he forgot to bring something to the
> bathroom?
>
> > However, it is a good question why amateurs started causing so much
> > trouble.
>
> Maybe it's just copycatting? Like the failed attempt at a follow-up in
> London Underground with bombs that didn't work?
That's what they get for buying the detonators from Lucas.
--
Greed is the root of all eBay.
John Larkin
Terrorists buy one-way tickets?
And what's suspicious about a 90 year old guy leaving New Orleans
after a hurricane?
And why are the security people always so rude? To show how tough they
are?
John
Tim Williams
news:7psuqc...@mid.individual.net...
> I have heard of some fat woman getting her innards sucked out while
> flushing the loo at 30,000 ft. at the same time as making an airtight fit.
Also Mythbusters. Hint: toilet seat has a gap.
Tim
--
Deep Friar: a very philosophical monk.
Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
> "Dirk Bruere at NeoPax" <dirk....@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:7psuqc...@mid.individual.net...
>> I have heard of some fat woman getting her innards sucked out while
>> flushing the loo at 30,000 ft. at the same time as making an airtight fit.
>
> Also Mythbusters. Hint: toilet seat has a gap.
Seems you are correct
http://tafkac.org/medical/evisceration/toilet_evisceration_boeing.html
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
To show that they don't think the guy's a suicide bomber? Else they'd be
more polite:-)
David L. Jones
> Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-Th...@My-Web-Site.com/Snicker>
> wrote in news:lvjhj59hq0v6ufv4f...@4ax.com:
>
>> On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 22:04:36 +1100, "David L. Jones"
>> <alt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> mpm wrote:
>> [snip]
>>>>
>>>> I heard on FOX News that some "former government official" said his
>>>> seat choice was no accident - it was near the fuel tank.
>>>
>>> Oh, you mean the Fox News owned by Rupert Murdoch. The same Fox News
>>> that spins every story far right to help ensure that the poor
>>> hapless Americans stay perpetually scared of this so called threat
>>> of "terrorism"? They do a good job, don't they!
>>> George.W and cronies would be proud.
>
> Actually,OBAMA and the DemocRATs have been far better at spreading
> fear.Just look at their healthcare work("1000's of people are dying
> without healthcare"...),and the carbon controls issue;"oh,the ice is
> melting...." and they are SUPERB at telling the public they are doing
> one thing,and then doing the opposite.LIARS,plain and simple.
Not even close to being as bad as the crap GWB feed you all about 9/11 and
Iraq et.al
And you swallowed it all AND reelected him, and allowed him to sign away
your civil liberties in the process, wow! Not that he was actually properly
elected in the first place, but I'll let that one slide for now :->
And how many thousands of your soldiers have needlessly died as a result?,
not to mention the untold hundreds of thousands of other innocents...
Sad, really sad.
Dave.
--
---------------------------------------------
Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog & Podcast:
http://www.eevblog.com
Martin Brown
They were running it for real on UK flights when I went through at
Easter last year. It is like a glass shower booth with a set of emitters
and receivers that sweep around the target. It is very slick. I left a
credit card in a pocket when asked to remove all items. They found it
with ease. You go in raise arms above head and it does a sweep. Slower
than a normal metal detector gate but still fairly fast ~30s a person.
The guy at the scanner doesn't see the images he is in radio contact
with the operator who tells him exactly where to look. The operator AIUI
does not see the person scanned except in terahertz or microwave band
that the thing uses. I expect displayed as a cylindrical projection.
Regards,
Martin Brown
Paul Keinanen
>On a sunny day (Mon, 28 Dec 2009 08:29:12 -0500) it happened PeterD
><pet...@hipson.net> wrote in <2kchj5ptl0si10fol...@4ax.com>:
>>They do just fine... Don't confuse movies with real life. Many planes
>>have been 'shot full of holes' and none have crashed from
>>decompression...
>
>Actually, come to think of it, there have been several fatal crashes due to decompression.
>One big one was IIRC a DC10 that had the cargo door pop out, the pressure difference broke the floor,
>ripped the control cables routed in that floor, and it crashed.
>There also was not so long ago a small private jet, it depressurised, the crew got unconscious,
>it kept flying on auto pilot until it ran out of fuel and crashed.
>Then a year or 2 ago a Greek plane decompressed and crashed with all passengers aboard.
>I am sure there are zillion more cases.
The early de Havilland Comet jet airliners crashed due to compression
fatigue, the Turkish Airlines DC10 crashed outside Paris due to
control cable damage. The 747 crash in Japan was due to badly repaired
pressure bulkhead (after a tail dragging incident).
Other than these events, are there other events, in which the plane
has been lost due to decompression or structure failure ?
Martin Brown
Who can tell? The security guys certainly seem to think so.
>
> And what's suspicious about a 90 year old guy leaving New Orleans
> after a hurricane?
That he was still alive? Or didn't leave before the hurricane struck?
> And why are the security people always so rude? To show how tough they
> are?
That's mostly a US thing. One of my supervisors had permanent scarring
from an encounter with your boys in blue. Another history lecturer was
beaten to a pulp for jay walking. Your immigration officials are some of
the most unpleasant individuals I have ever encountered. I get the
impression they are just waiting for the opportunity to shoot someone
who fails to stand behind the red line. US internal flight tickets of
foreigners are marked unsubtly and they almost always get the treatment
meted out to your father - no matter how unlikely a terrorist they are.
In the 80's I used to get pulled fairly often in the UK for looking like
someone they were interested in and having components in my hand luggage
that appear like detonators on Xray. They were always polite and
professional with me. More recently post 9/11 at Heathrow they found a
miniature screwdriver that had vanished into the seams of my carry-on
bag. They got it out without doing any damage and then confiscated it. I
must have been through dozens of airports with that thing in place.
I do find it a bit annoying that you can't buy a mail it back to me bag.
It is a pain losing nail files and forgotten screwdrivers every time.
Same for a colleague who was hand carrying a high voltage rectifier
stack for an emergency repair that looked for all the world like three
sticks of dynamite in a box. He had all the documentation with him and
contact numbers for trusted references - trouble was expected with this
unit. Security agreed to open his bag out of sight of other passengers
to avoid scaring them and having our guy lynched before take off.
Another absent minded colleague left his fat attache case unattended for
a couple of minutes and by the time he had reported it stolen bomb
disposal had it outside surrounded with sandbags after an Xray showed it
was full of wires, blocks of something (chocolate) and electronic
boards. He got a serious dressing down for leaving unattended luggage
and wasting police time. But I was impressed how fast they had reacted.
Regards,
Martin Brown
Martin Brown
> On Dec 26, 5:45 pm, John Larkin
> <jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/27/us/27security.html
>>
>> So a guy tried to detonate a bomb during the last hour of a flight.
>> The TSA morons thus conclude that all terrorists detonate their bombs
>> in the last hour, so make it illegal to get out of your seat during
>> those 60 minutes. They are clearly assuming that the bombers are
>> dumber than they are; I have my doubts.
>
> They have zero imagination, which is why this crap happens in the
> first place.
And US airport security was extremely sloppy pre 9/11. The security
operatives were underpaid myopic ex taxi drivers with IQs to match. Some
of them didn't even know how to use the expensive more effective gear.
Training the operators properly costs money.
Getting the plane full was more important to them than anything else.
>
> A couple true "horror" stories:
> Both on recent flights in to/ out of DCA
>
> Got to Reagan National, and when x-raying my camera bag, they claimed
> they could not "see" through the camera lenses with their x-rays?
> Huh?? That's got to be total bullshit.
> The solution: x-Ray them 3 times. I guess magically they can see
> through the glass on the third attempt. (?)
They up the exposure progressively each time. And it is true that some
glasses in bigger lenses would show up very dark on Xrays. Bad news if
you have unexposed high ASA film in the bag.
> Also, (same security guard)... I had forgotten about the restriction
> on liquids through the x-ray machine.
> Turns out I had purchased a soda out of a machine not more than 50
> feet from the security line.
> The guard said I had to ditch the soda (or drink in on the spot)
> because it wasn't "cleared".
>
> Again, huh?!
Swap the bottle and carry on a liquid bomb. They are *very* cagey now
about bulk liquid explosives after finding someone doing a bit of clever
chemistry and refilling "sealed" bottles from the base.
They are right to be wary. See for example:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/6153243/Airline-terror-trial-The-bomb-plot-to-kill-10000-people.html
> So, it's OK to have a non-cleared soda available for sale 50 feet from
> the x-ray machine, but I can't take that same soda 50-feet in the
> other direction?
So long as you don't try to take it airside there is no problem.
Same is true taking fresh fruit into Australia for example.
> I guess Diet Coke bottles make good directional projectile
> explosives.??
Containers like plastic bottles are a potential threat if they might
have been tampered with. All stuff that is moved to airside is checked.
> I guarantee you security can be easily breached at ANY domestic
> airport with extremely little imagination.
That is always the problem. The terrorists have first mover advantage
because they can observe and study all the visible security measures.
The security guys are stuck with the techniques they can apply without
bringing the whole thing to a grinding halt with interminable queues.
The pros now look like they must be assembling things in clean rooms and
hermetically sealed if our Nigerian "friend" did not set off sniffer
alarms or dogs at Schiphol. I hope they got enough bits of his bomb to
figure out exactly where the explosives came from.
I still want to know why he didn't get a full body scan.
> Bottom line: If you think you are safe as a result of TSA security,
> you're crazy.
> They may indeed provide the illusion of safety for jello-minded
> people, but that's about it.
Israel and the UK are a lot more practiced at doing what matters. Some
of the US measures are pure theatre with no security gain.
Regards,
Martin Brown
Jan Panteltje
NeoPax <dirk....@gmail.com> wrote in <7psuqc...@mid.individual.net>:
>Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> On a sunny day (Mon, 28 Dec 2009 22:30:29 +0000) it happened Dirk Bruere at
>> NeoPax <dirk....@gmail.com> wrote in <7psps4...@mid.individual.net>:
>>
>>> Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>> On a sunny day (Mon, 28 Dec 2009 16:07:39 -0500) it happened PeterD
>>>> <pet...@hipson.net> wrote in <m97ij5d0fm7fh4j8t...@4ax.com>:
>>>>> But if we go back to the original point, that a bullet hole will cause
>>>>> a plane to explode because it is pressurized,
>>>> I do not think tha tever was the original point.
>>>> Not even in Goldfinger.
>>> Myth Busters tried it.
>>> A bullet hole will not cause structural failure in an airliner.
>>> Nor will anyone get sucked out through a small window.
>>
>> Goldfinger was big and fat, so it was a big window,
>> else he would not have fit through it.
>> :-)
>
>I have heard of some fat woman getting her innards sucked out while
>flushing the loo at 30,000 ft. at the same time as making an airtight fit.
Now there is a use for a security pressure switch :-)
One that detects weight and inhibits flushing.
Jim Thompson
To make it clear that they are Democrats?
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
Help save the environment!
Please dispose of socialism responsibly!
Jim Thompson
<alt...@gmail.com> wrote:
Poor clueless Dave. He's so clueless he could be on Obama's staff.
Have you started listening to Fox yet?
Better try it.
One more clueless outburst and you're history.
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
Postings via gmail, yahoo, hotmail, aioe, uar or googlegroups, and
trolls/feeders, are now automatically kill-filed using Agent v6.0
To be white-listed, send request via the E-mail icon on my website
John Larkin
wrote:
http://pdf.aiaa.org/preview/CDReadyMSDM2005_970/PV2005_2252.pdf
John
Nico Coesel
wrote:
No, David is right. It would have been more economic to buy a new
piece of land for the Israelis and let the Palestinians go back where
they used to live than to wage war in Afghanistan, Iraq and soon
Yemen. The terrorists are currently hitting the US where it hurts
most: in the wallet! And what does the US do? Run after a sausage like
a stupid dog.
John Larkin
wrote:
The Cold War, the struggle of Western thought against Communism, has
been replaced with the struggle against fundamentalist Islam. There
are many parallels. And a major realignment is taking place, China and
Russia and the US on one side, the radical Islamic world and socialist
loonies like Castro and Chavez on the other. Ironic, wot?
This isn't all about Israel. Neither Jordan nor Egypt want the
Palestinians as their citizens or even visitors. Egypt is blockading
Gaza just as hard as Israel.
I think W and crew recognized the culture clash and used the WMD thing
as an excuse to plant a democracy in the heart of Islam, the only one
in the region. The decision was strategic and historic, and it may
just work.
John
Jim Thompson
Naaaah! Just napalm 'em all ;-)
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
Rich Webb
<jjla...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
>I think W and crew recognized the culture clash and used the WMD thing
>as an excuse to plant a democracy in the heart of Islam, the only one
>in the region. The decision was strategic and historic, and it may
>just work.
Democracy in the heart of Islam... Hmmm... Too bad there's not an
Islamic state that was the center of an empire that stretched from, say,
Budapest to Eritrea and Algiers to Baghdad, that would go on to became a
stable secular democracy in the 20th century and even a member of NATO.
Probably would have been handy, for something like that to have
happened.
Surely not as useful as an Iraq with a weak central government, drifting
into Iran's sphere of influence.
--
Rich Webb Norfolk, VA
krw
<To-Email-Use-Th...@My-Web-Site.com/Snicker> wrote:
No nukes? Wuss.
Jim Thompson
I like the smell of slowly burning flesh ;-)
PeterD
<pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On a sunny day (Mon, 28 Dec 2009 22:30:29 +0000) it happened Dirk Bruere at
>NeoPax <dirk....@gmail.com> wrote in <7psps4...@mid.individual.net>:
>
>>Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>> On a sunny day (Mon, 28 Dec 2009 16:07:39 -0500) it happened PeterD
>>> <pet...@hipson.net> wrote in <m97ij5d0fm7fh4j8t...@4ax.com>:
>>>> But if we go back to the original point, that a bullet hole will cause
>>>> a plane to explode because it is pressurized,
>>>
>>> I do not think tha tever was the original point.
>>> Not even in Goldfinger.
>>
>>Myth Busters tried it.
>>A bullet hole will not cause structural failure in an airliner.
>>Nor will anyone get sucked out through a small window.
>
>Goldfinger was big and fat, so it was a big window,
>else he would not have fit through it.
>:-)
Didn't it seem to 'compress' him as he was sucked out? I remember
thinking that there was some very strange geometry in play in that
scene. <g>
John Larkin
Unfortunately, history is chaotic, and often things turn out very
different than anyone expected or intended.
The world is, generally, drifting towards democracy, along a very
erratic path.
This is a pretty good, and appropriately chaotic, book:
John
Jamie
> "Dirk Bruere at NeoPax" <dirk....@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:7psuqc...@mid.individual.net...
>
>>I have heard of some fat woman getting her innards sucked out while
>>flushing the loo at 30,000 ft. at the same time as making an airtight fit.
>
>
> Also Mythbusters. Hint: toilet seat has a gap.
>
> Tim
>
If you're a fat pig, that gap can be filled! :)
JosephKK
>On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 22:56:56 +0200, Anssi Saari <a...@sci.fi> wrote:
>
>>Vladimir Vassilevsky <nos...@nowhere.com> writes:
>>
>>> If he was a terrorist, that plane won't land. He is just another
>>> amateur madman.
>>
>>Yes, at least the NY Times said the guy was in the bathroom for 20
>>minutes, presumably tinkering with his bomb, then went back to his
>>seat to set it off. Can't imagine why, makes more sense to set it off
>>in the bathroom. Well, maybe he forgot to bring something to the
>>bathroom?
>>
>>> However, it is a good question why amateurs started causing so much
>>> trouble.
>>
>>Maybe it's just copycatting? Like the failed attempt at a follow-up in
>>London Underground with bombs that didn't work?
>
>What's scary is the possibility that several passengers, over several
>flights of the same plane, manage to carry on and stash components to
>build a bomb in the john :-(
>
>Why was he in the john for 20 minutes?
>
>There has to be some way to dispose of these Islamists that prevents
>them from entering their "heaven" and getting all those virgins (*)
>...
What was it that the Israelis did once to make a point? Something like
sew them up in pig skin and drown them? It had to completely exclude
any kind of "honorable" death. Maybe it was to let their own body
functions kill them.
>
>Boil them to death in pork fat ?:-)
>
>(*) What good is a virgin... I want a "cougar" ;-)
>
> ...Jim Thompson
JosephKK
>On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 22:04:36 +1100, "David L. Jones"
><alt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>mpm wrote:
>[snip]
>>>
>>> I heard on FOX News that some "former government official" said his
>>> seat choice was no accident - it was near the fuel tank.
>>
>>Oh, you mean the Fox News owned by Rupert Murdoch. The same Fox News that
>>spins every story far right to help ensure that the poor hapless Americans
>>stay perpetually scared of this so called threat of "terrorism"?
>>They do a good job, don't they!
>>George.W and cronies would be proud.
>>
>>Ah, America, the only place were it's always Nineteen Eighty-Four
>>
>>Dave.
>
>Come on, Dave! 'Fess up, you've _never_ever_ listened to Fox Talk. I
>listen via the Web using my Roku Soundbridge...
>
>mms://a138.l1387324137.c13873.g.lm.akamaistream.net/D/138/13873/v0001/reflector:24137
>
>Try it for a week, then tell me what you heard that was biased (except
>for John Gibson... he gets his jollies from "N-word" baiting, though I
>can't really say his questions are biased... he's just drawing out and
>demonstrating their ignorance... especially amusing when he asks _why_
>they voted for Obama ;-)
>
>Hell... Fox even carries sickening liberal nutcase Alan Colmes...
>
> http://www.alan.com/
>
> ...Jim Thompson
The mms: link seems to be to an episode of Alan Colmes. Is that correct?