CA Wildfires
Jim Thompson
Julian, CA, now have a fire approaching from Ramona, CA. They have
fled to Brawley, CA...
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msa=0&msid=114250687465160386813.00043d08ac31fe3357571
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
America: Land of the Free, Because of the Brave
BobW
"Jim Thompson" <To-Email-Use-Th...@My-Web-Site.com> wrote in
message news:cn4vh31ig7botgcv2...@4ax.com...
> The in-laws, burned out in the 2003 wildfires that went through
> Julian, CA, now have a fire approaching from Ramona, CA. They have
> fled to Brawley, CA...
Brawley? Isn't that close to Petticoat Junction?
Bob
Genome
Web-Site.com> wrote:
> The in-laws, burned out in the 2003 wildfires that went through
> Julian, CA, now have a fire approaching from Ramona, CA. They have
> fled to Brawley, CA...
>
>
> ...Jim Thompson
> --
>
> America: Land of the Free, Because my Kids are still Fucking it Up
I don't get it.
You have already told us how brill your kids are wiv all their quals
and stuff but you keep coming back to moan about stuff.
Fuck me... the way you go on about things I'd have to assume that you
already fixed it in the first place but then I have to hear about how
your High Qual kids are on the case and then you still come along and
bitch about shit.
I'll tell you this much....
If you and your spawn don't sort stuff out soon like what you have
been implying you are going to do...... I'll have to assume you and
yours are all shit and no trousers and not very good at either of them
either.
DNA
Jim Yanik
> The in-laws, burned out in the 2003 wildfires that went through
> Julian, CA, now have a fire approaching from Ramona, CA. They have
> fled to Brawley, CA...
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msa=0&msid=114250687465160386813.00043d0
> 8ac31fe3357571
>
> ...Jim Thompson
maybe there's a reason why early settlers built in adobe?
Or where the "carbon" in Carbon Canyon originated??
(BTW,why was this copied to a binaries NG?)
Is it possible to build a fireproof(externally) house?
Tile/metal/concrete roof,block walls,etc....
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
Martin Riddle
"Jim Yanik" <jya...@abuse.gov> wrote in message news:Xns99D3E73DB53...@64.209.0.85...
> Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-Th...@My-Web-Site.com> wrote in
> news:cn4vh31ig7botgcv2...@4ax.com:
>
>> The in-laws, burned out in the 2003 wildfires that went through
>> Julian, CA, now have a fire approaching from Ramona, CA. They have
>> fled to Brawley, CA...
>>
>> http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msa=0&msid=114250687465160386813.00043d0
>> 8ac31fe3357571
>>
>> ...Jim Thompson
>
> maybe there's a reason why early settlers built in adobe?
> Or where the "carbon" in Carbon Canyon originated??
>
> (BTW,why was this copied to a binaries NG?)
>
> Is it possible to build a fireproof(externally) house?
Not really.
The best measures are controlled burns and fire breaks.
I'm sure neither was done.
Cheers
Richard Henry
> Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-I...@My-Web-Site.com> wrote innews:cn4vh31ig7botgcv2...@4ax.com:
The houses that burned around here (I live in Poway CA, right on the
edge of this week's Witch Creek fire and the 2003 Cedar Fire) are
typically tile roof, stucco exterior. The fire usually starts in the
exposed wooden eaves or by radiant heating through the windows of the
interior contents. They interviewed a fire fighter on TV Monday and
he said that by the time smoke starts seeping out of the roof tiles,
the house is a written off and the firefighters work on the next
house. If it were a single house on fire, they would tear open the
roof and douse the flames, but when a whole street is at risk, they
don't have the time or manpower for that.
Richard Henry
> "Jim Yanik" <jya...@abuse.gov> wrote in messagenews:Xns99D3E73DB53...@64.209.0.85...
> >news:cn4vh31ig7botgcv2...@4ax.com:
>
> >> The in-laws, burned out in the 2003 wildfires that went through
> >> Julian, CA, now have a fire approaching from Ramona, CA. They have
> >> fled to Brawley, CA...
>
> >>http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msa=0&msid=114250687465160386813.00043d0
> >> 8ac31fe3357571
>
> >> ...Jim Thompson
>
> > maybe there's a reason why early settlers built in adobe?
> > Or where the "carbon" in Carbon Canyon originated??
>
> > (BTW,why was this copied to a binaries NG?)
>
> > Is it possible to build a fireproof(externally) house?
>
> <snip>
>
> Not really.
>
> The best measures are controlled burns and fire breaks.
> I'm sure neither was done.
>
What is your concl
James Arthur
> "Jim Yanik" <jya...@abuse.gov> wrote in messagenews:Xns99D3E73DB53...@64.209.0.85...
> >news:cn4vh31ig7botgcv2...@4ax.com:
>
> >> The in-laws, burned out in the 2003 wildfires that went through
> >> Julian, CA, now have a fire approaching from Ramona, CA. They have
> >> fled to Brawley, CA...
>
> >>http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msa=0&msid=114250687465160386813.00043d0
> >> 8ac31fe3357571
>
> >> ...Jim Thompson
>
> > maybe there's a reason why early settlers built in adobe?
> > Or where the "carbon" in Carbon Canyon originated??
>
> > (BTW,why was this copied to a binaries NG?)
>
> > Is it possible to build a fireproof(externally) house?
>
>
> Not really.
New houses are built to very good standards. Tile roofs are the
first, big improvement. Eaves is 2nd, as they trap embers.
Earthquake code prevents use of bricks and such.
> The best measures are controlled burns
Scorched earth is pretty fire retardant, true, but not a pretty fire
retardant.
> and fire breaks.
> I'm sure neither was done.
You might want to GoogleEarth the area before being so sure. Fire
breaks and brush clearance are de rigueur.
Cheers,
James Arthur
James Arthur
> On Oct 24, 7:43 pm, Jim Yanik wrote:
>
>
>
> > Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-I...@My-Web-Site.com> wrote innews:cn4vh31ig7botgcv2...@4ax.com:
>
> > > The in-laws, burned out in the 2003 wildfires that went through
> > > Julian, CA, now have a fire approaching from Ramona, CA. They have
> > > fled to Brawley, CA...
>
> > >http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msa=0&msid=114250687465160386813.00043d0
> > > 8ac31fe3357571
>
> > > ...Jim Thompson
>
> > maybe there's a reason why early settlers built in adobe?
> > Or where the "carbon" in Carbon Canyon originated??
>
> > (BTW,why was this copied to a binaries NG?)
>
> > Is it possible to build a fireproof(externally) house?
>
> > Tile/metal/concrete roof,block walls,etc....
>
> > --
> > Jim Yanik
>
> edge of this week's Witch Creek fire and the 2003 Cedar Fire) are
> typically tile roof, stucco exterior. The fire usually starts in the
> exposed wooden eaves or by radiant heating through the windows of the
> interior contents. They interviewed a fire fighter on TV Monday and
> he said that by the time smoke starts seeping out of the roof tiles,
> the house is a written off and the firefighters work on the next
> house. If it were a single house on fire, they would tear open the
> roof and douse the flames, but when a whole street is at risk, they
> don't have the time or manpower for that.
AIUI, after tile roofs and eaves improvements, attic vents are the
next weakness, being a point-of-entry for flying embers.
Sunday I personally saw a several-km long wall/line of fire leap 1km
with a single gust.
Best wishes,
James Arthur
Jim Thompson
It doesn't even take embers. The air is so hot that blowing through
an attic or eave vent can set the wood on fire.
James Arthur
> an attic or eave vent can set the wood on fire.
>
> ...Jim Thompson
True, if the fire's that close. Vent openings allow propagation at
even larger distances, as embers can carry fire large distances, far
ahead of the heat.
Cheers,
James Arthur
qrk
Fire breaks don't work well when winds are blowing >50 knots, humidity
is <10% and vegetation is stressed. Controlled burns are very helpful,
but sadly, our gov. agencies don't do enough of them.
Richard The Dreaded Libertarian
> Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-Th...@My-Web-Site.com> wrote in
>
>> Julian, CA, now have a fire approaching from Ramona, CA. They have
>> fled to Brawley, CA...
>>
>> http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msa=0&msid=114250687465160386813.00043d0
>> 8ac31fe3357571
>
> Or where the "carbon" in Carbon Canyon originated??
>
> (BTW,why was this copied to a binaries NG?)
>
> Is it possible to build a fireproof(externally) house?
>
> Tile/metal/concrete roof,block walls,etc....
There was an article in yesterday's Orange County, CA Register about
some neighborhood that escaped pretty much unscathed as the fire
raged around them.
What they had done is got together, hired a crew, and cleared all
of the dry brush for about 200 yards around the neighborhood. The
fire went all around this little island of cleared land.
The ones who buy multi-million-dollar log cabins in the middle of
a pine forest pretty much deserve what they get.
Hope This Helps!
Rich
John Larkin
We went out in the back yard one Sunday morning. It smelled a little
funny, and little pieces of black stuff were falling out of the sky.
It was the Oakland Hills fire, just 2 years after the 89 earthquake.
We went over to Beacon Street, with a view across the bay, and there
was a miles-wide wall of fire. The hottest spot looked to be in
Berkeley, on the hill above the Claremont Hotel. It looked like the
Gates of Hell.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oakland_Hills_firestorm
There are some places in Marin County, around Mill Valley, that could
and probably will be worse. Cul-de-sacs with lots of fancy houses,
steep canyons with tiny 1-lane access roads, choked with brush and
eucalyptus trees, aka green firebombs.
If safety is your main goal in life, don't come to California.
John
Rich Grise
> On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 02:49:03 GMT, "Martin Riddle"
>>
>>I'm sure neither was done.
>>
> is <10% and vegetation is stressed. Controlled burns are very helpful,
> but sadly, our gov. agencies don't do enough of them.
Couldn't a neighborhood just get together for a "controlled burn party"?
You'd probably need a permit - and you do this in the spring, when it's
starting to rain, or just when the rains are starting to dry up, and burn
maybe 1/2 acre at a time, surrounded by a dozen volunteers with big
hoses and extinguishers and stuff.
Oh, and a guy with some kind of brush cutter e.g:
http://www.drpower.com/TwoStepCategory.aspx?Name=FieldBrush2Step&LinkType=3&BC=0&Redirect=true
Although, I guess this coming year, they won't need to. ;-)
Cheers!
Rich
Jim Thompson
The smoke reached Arizona yesterday afternoon... really bad visibility
from my place toward the southwest.
JeffM
>>>maybe there's a reason why early settlers built in adobe?
>>>
--same reason prairie dwellers built theirs out of sod.
The only reason these HUGE wildfires exist is because of
an anal, misguided suppress-ALL-fires mentality over DECADES.
Martin Riddle wrote:
>>The best measures are controlled burns
>>
James Arthur wrote:
>Scorched earth is pretty fire retardant, true,
>but not a pretty fire retardant.
I like Grise's "controlled burn party" notion, but for a lot of stuff
hiring a guy to graze his goats seems an even better idea.
A big problem is folks planting non-indigenous stuff.
Succulents[1] and gravel are apt landscaping ideas
in the desert southwest.
.
.
[1] I think those rosette plants look really cool.
When I planted aloe vera, my biggest problem was that
I got too many volunteers sprouting.
Jim Thompson
<edmo...@ieee.org> wrote:
>Well, you can't make them completely fireproof, but there are a lot of
>things you can do.
>
>First, stucco does have good fire resistance properties, as do tile
>roofs. But, you need to be careful that your eaves are closed, so that
>heat doesn't build up there and burn. Also, curtains can get enough IR
>through the windows to ignite, so metal venetian blinds can be better.
>
>If you look at a typical fire site, you will see some homes standing
>virtually untouched. They often are well built, with no vegetation next
>to the house, etc.
>
>Charlie
Charlie, Are you anywhere near the fires?
James Arthur
> On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 10:09:10 -0700, James Arthur wrote:
> >Sunday I personally saw a several-km long wall/line of fire leap 1km
> >with a single gust.
> We went out in the back yard one Sunday morning. It smelled a little
> funny, and little pieces of black stuff were falling out of the sky.
> It was the Oakland Hills fire, just 2 years after the 89 earthquake.
>
> We went over to Beacon Street, with a view across the bay, and there
> was a miles-wide wall of fire. The hottest spot looked to be in
> Berkeley, on the hill above the Claremont Hotel. It looked like the
> Gates of Hell.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oakland_Hills_firestorm
>
> There are some places in Marin County, around Mill Valley, that could
> and probably will be worse. Cul-de-sacs with lots of fancy houses,
> steep canyons with tiny 1-lane access roads, choked with brush and
> eucalyptus trees, aka green firebombs.
>
> If safety is your main goal in life, don't come to California.
>
> John
That must've been quite spectacular.
I've now twice seen big fire, but I've never seen it gallop like this
before. The wind gods were kind, this time.
Cheers,
James Arthur
Jim Stewart
I lived in San Pablo at the time, about 12 miles north.
Not knowing how far the fire would reach, I gassed up the
cars and sat tight, watching the news. That evening,
after it was pretty much contained, I drove to Berkeley
and looked up at the hills. The whole hillside, from
Berkeley into Oakland, which would normally be lit up
from streetlights looked like an angry bank of glowing
campfire coals.
James Arthur
The news channels, entranced by the flames, gave us great continuous
close-ups, but failed to tell us whence each shot originated.
A reconnaissance mission was embarked in the garage for information,
but aborted in the driveway when flames were sighted therefrom. Time
to pack!
Cheers,
James Arthur
JosephKK
Fire breaks don't mean much in 30+ mph winds.
Tim Williams
news:17t1i3dg3btlemcuv...@4ax.com...
> If safety is your main goal in life, don't come to California.
Yep, we have Wisconsin for that.
Tim
--
Deep Fryer: A very philosophical monk.
Website @ http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms
Richard Henry
> Martin Riddle martin_...@verizon.net posted to sci.electronics.design:> >> Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-I...@My-Web-Site.com> wrote
> >> innews:cn4vh31ig7botgcv2...@4ax.com:
>
> >>> The in-laws, burned out in the 2003 wildfires that went through
> >>> Julian, CA, now have a fire approaching from Ramona, CA. They
> >>> have fled to Brawley, CA...
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msa=0&msid=114250687465160386813.00043d0
>
>
>
>
>
> >>> 8ac31fe3357571
>
> >>> ...Jim Thompson
>
> >> maybe there's a reason why early settlers built in adobe?
> >> Or where the "carbon" in Carbon Canyon originated??
>
> >> (BTW,why was this copied to a binaries NG?)
>
> >> Is it possible to build a fireproof(externally) house?
> > <snip>
>
> > Not really.
>
> > The best measures are controlled burns and fire breaks.
> > I'm sure neither was done.
>
> > Cheers
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Both the Cedar Fire in 2003 and the Witch Fire this week jumped I-15,
8 lanes plus.
qrk
Best left to the folks who know how to do this and have the
suppression equipment. If the fire gets out of hand, things go wrong
very quickly. There's still lots of brush to go up in flames around
here, even after our 240000 acre (97000 hectare = 960000
farthingdales) fire a few months ago. Our government agencies don't do
enough proactive stuff because there is risk which means if something
goes wrong, someone looses a job. We have had controlled burns get out
of hand before. Thus, from a job risk management point, it's better to
not to do anything and get lots of praises how well everybody did
fighting the conflagration.
Mark
Jim Thompson
[snip]
>
>Best left to the folks who know how to do this and have the
>suppression equipment. If the fire gets out of hand, things go wrong
>very quickly. There's still lots of brush to go up in flames around
>here, even after our 240000 acre (97000 hectare = 960000
>farthingdales) fire a few months ago. Our government agencies don't do
>enough proactive stuff because there is risk which means if something
>goes wrong, someone looses a job. We have had controlled burns get out
>of hand before. Thus, from a job risk management point, it's better to
>not to do anything and get lots of praises how well everybody did
>fighting the conflagration.
>
>Mark
The green fairies here in AZ won't even allow controlled burns or
clear cutting in very remote areas of the state.
Thus, like in the past few years, a big fire takes out half our
forested areas.
Charlie Edmondson
Nope, not this round. If I was still in Irvine, I would have a great
view of the Santiago fire, and I looked at a lot houses up there in
foothill ranch. I also worked on the Foothill toll road that the fire
is buring around.
For the bad days, here in the desert, the weather was beautiful. No
wind, warm but not hot, dry, just gorgeous. I invited any of my
co-workers that needed clean air to take a drive on out, but got no
takers. Wednesday, went up on the tram, and could just see the smoke of
the Arrowhead and running springs fires.
Yesterday, it got a little gray in the afternoon, and today we can smell
it, but it isn't too bad. It was last year that we had fires out in
this area, but even then, we are in true desert. There isn't enough to
burn out here to really get a good firestorm started.
Charlie
Jim Thompson
<edmo...@ieee.org> wrote:
>Jim Thompson wrote:
[snip]
>>
>> Charlie, Are you anywhere near the fires?
>>
>> ...Jim Thompson
>
>Nope, not this round. If I was still in Irvine, I would have a great
>view of the Santiago fire, and I looked at a lot houses up there in
>foothill ranch. I also worked on the Foothill toll road that the fire
>is buring around.
>
>For the bad days, here in the desert, the weather was beautiful. No
>wind, warm but not hot, dry, just gorgeous. I invited any of my
>co-workers that needed clean air to take a drive on out, but got no
>takers. Wednesday, went up on the tram, and could just see the smoke of
>the Arrowhead and running springs fires.
>
>Yesterday, it got a little gray in the afternoon, and today we can smell
>it, but it isn't too bad. It was last year that we had fires out in
>this area, but even then, we are in true desert. There isn't enough to
>burn out here to really get a good firestorm started.
>
>Charlie
The smoke reached Phoenix on Wednesday.
Rich Grise
> [1] I think those rosette plants look really cool.
> When I planted aloe vera, my biggest problem was that
> I got too many volunteers sprouting.
You should have got a juicer and bottled it. ;-)
Cheers!
Rich
Jim Yanik
news:472246cf$1...@news.cadence.com:
snipped for brevity.
One more thing they could add to homes is a fire suppression system to the
roof;sprinklers to give a full coverage of the roof and eaves(IOW,all
vulnerable areas),also somewhat cooling the air around the home. Maybe make
it temp activated.
Then the residents could even evacuate and still have the sprinkers come on
or continue running,protecting their home.
Maybe they could use their swimming pool as a backup water source.
JosephKK
That is interesting, but what fascinates me is the people that rebuilt
from the 2003 fire in the same stupid way and got burned again. I
doubt that they can get fire insurance now (at a price less than 30%
of structure value per year).
Another pet peeve of mine is that many of them will expect Government
bailout for their blatant stupidity.
JosephKK
sci.electronics.design:
Awwww. Even with the sky high property prices and labor rates, not
even a little shaking and baking will deter them, because the weather
is so fine the rest of the time.
John Larkin
It's not just the weather. California is a great place to be weird.
John
Richard The Dreaded Libertarian
> Rich Grise ri...@example.net posted to sci.electronics.design:
>> Oh, and a guy with some kind of brush cutter e.g:
>>
> http://www.drpower.com/TwoStepCategory.aspx?Name=FieldBrush2Step&LinkType=3&BC=0&Redirect=true
>>
>> Although, I guess this coming year, they won't need to. ;-)
>
> from the 2003 fire in the same stupid way and got burned again. I
> doubt that they can get fire insurance now (at a price less than 30%
> of structure value per year).
> Another pet peeve of mine is that many of them will expect Government
> bailout for their blatant stupidity.
What _really_ cheeses me off is that they'll get away with it! >:-[
Thanks,
Rich
Richard Henry
> Rich Grise r...@example.net posted to sci.electronics.design:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 18:12:29 +0000, qrk wrote:
> >> On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 02:49:03 GMT, "Martin Riddle"
>
> >>>The best measures are controlled burns and fire breaks.
> >>>I'm sure neither was done.
>
> >> Fire breaks don't work well when winds are blowing >50 knots,
> >> humidity is <10% and vegetation is stressed. Controlled burns are
> >> very helpful, but sadly, our gov. agencies don't do enough of them.
>
> > Couldn't a neighborhood just get together for a "controlled burn
> > party"?
>
> > You'd probably need a permit - and you do this in the spring, when
> > it's starting to rain, or just when the rains are starting to dry
> > up, and burn maybe 1/2 acre at a time, surrounded by a dozen
> > volunteers with big hoses and extinguishers and stuff.
>
> > Oh, and a guy with some kind of brush cutter e.g:
>
>
>
>
> > Although, I guess this coming year, they won't need to. ;-)
>
> > Cheers!
> > Rich
>
> That is interesting, but what fascinates me is the people that rebuilt
> from the 2003 fire in the same stupid way and got burned again. I
> doubt that they can get fire insurance now (at a price less than 30%
> of structure value per year).
> Another pet peeve of mine is that many of them will expect Government
>
> - Show quoted text -
I live close to both the 2003 Cedar Fire and the 2007 Witch Fire in
San Diego County. To the best of my knowledge, there were no
replacemen houses for 2003 losses that were burned this time. Do you
have an example?
Spehro Pefhany
At least they're using thousands of prison inmates to fight the
fires.. but too bad they exclude arsonists, that's just mean of them.
John Larkin
Heck, fighting a fire for a week or two might just cure them.
John
Sarason
built in sprinkler system on the roof, firebreak walls constructed of
adobe or brick, a firebreak would be considered to be asking for
trouble. Also it is fairly common for every able bodied male to be a
member of the CFA (Country Fire Authority), which is a volunteer fire
service with a truck in ever country town of the state. If a fire gets
started a bell rings in town and a fire crew then heads to the truck and
then off to the fire. A lot of farmers have a tanker which can be placed
on a tray truck etc. In short every on is prepared and involved with
dealing with fire. I never remember a compulsory evacuation because if
you are well prepared your house should not get burnt. No matter how big
the fire. If you have 200 foot trees 10 feet from your house
occasionally these will fall over but again, this is just not planning
ahead. In my viewing of the news it seems like everyone was surprised
that these fires were going to cause a problem. The problem was that no
one had any idea how to deal with wildfire and how to plan for it.
Andrew
donald
Well Andrew you have hit the nail on the head.
We have a remedial society in the USA.
No one wants to think about any kind of problem before it happens,
but there is always someone else's money to fix it later.
Education, health care, jobs, you name it.
The current state of the economy is also victim to this way of thinking.
Now if you ask what people want to do about their retirement, they get
interested about doing something today, because they know the government
will do little or nothing to help their future.
Then the government is surprised that millions of boomers will be asking
for the promised social security they have been paying into.
But as we all know social security is just another tax with a fancy name
and a broken promise behind it.
This is a problem for both parties here in the US.
don
John Larkin
The California situation is different. Enormous areas are heavily
loaded with trees and brush. It rains in the winter and we get
essentially zero precip from April to November, and most of the grass
and brush goes to seed and dies and turns light brown (hence the name
"Golden State".) The prevailing wind is off the Pacific, cool and
damp, but about this time of year we can get hot, near zero-humidity
winds from the east, the Santa Annas, peaking near 100 mph.
People have been building houses in the woods, on ridges, and in
canyons. Firebreaks are impossible, and fires of this magnitude spread
faster than a person can run and easily jump freeways. The fires are
natural, and are bigger but less frequent when small fires are put
out. The houses just were built in harm's way.
I suppose putting out the small fires is somewhat offset by the
increased human-created ignition sources, so that sorta cancels out.
And speaking of Australia, the non-California-native eucalyptus trees
are everywhere here and are major fire hazards. They cover the ground
with flammable bark litter, and the trees practically explode when
they burn. The native California trees don't do this; many survive
fires, and in fact depend on them to eliminate competition and
parasites.
Some things just happen, and can't be prevented, and there's nobody to
blame.
John
Richard Henry
<jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 22:30:52 +1100, Sarason
>
>
>
>
>
> <sarason_not...@alphalink.com.au> wrote:
> >Jim Yanik wrote:
know, gold.
John Larkin
No, the entrance to the San Francisco Bay was called the "Golden Gate"
two years before the gold discovery at Sutter's Mill. The state was
probably named for its autumn colors, not the gold.
The hillsides around here are a nice light golden-brown color, with a
bit of fresh green from a light rain we had a couple of weeks ago, a
hint of the winter storms to come. It's prime fire season.
John
JosephKK
I have no direct knowledge of the funding. But at least one person
got on TV for being burned out both times.
JosephKK
Speaking for yourself? Or just of your neighbors?
John Larkin
<joseph_...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> It's not just the weather. California is a great place to be weird.
>>
>> John
>
>Speaking for yourself? Or just of your neighbors?
All of us, of course.
John
Michael A. Terrell
Arsonists? Their uniforms should be soaked in gasoline to make them
REALLY want to put out the fire, instead of start another fire.
--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.
Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
Sarason
<sniped>
> The California situation is different. Enormous areas are heavily
> loaded with trees and brush. It rains in the winter and we get
> essentially zero precip from April to November, and most of the grass
> and brush goes to seed and dies and turns light brown (hence the name
> "Golden State".)
undergrowth.
The prevailing wind is off the Pacific, cool and
> damp, but about this time of year we can get hot, near zero-humidity
> winds from the east, the Santa Annas, peaking near 100 mph.
>
> People have been building houses in the woods, on ridges, and in
> canyons. Firebreaks are impossible, and fires of this magnitude spread
> faster than a person can run and easily jump freeways.
I have fought fires that run across a mile of paddock (field) in
minutes, with a strong northerly wind.(Our hot winds run from the inland
desert regions, well at least in the State of Victoria) A firebreak
gives you some chance of stopping the fire on the ground as only the
hottest spots can cross it and so the exponential growth of the
firefront is slowed. In a really hot fire the bitumen can burn.
The fires are
> natural, and are bigger but less frequent when small fires are put
> out. The houses just were built in harm's way.
>
> I suppose putting out the small fires is somewhat offset by the
> increased human-created ignition sources, so that sorta cancels out.
>
> And speaking of Australia, the non-California-native eucalyptus trees
> are everywhere here and are major fire hazards. They cover the ground
> with flammable bark litter, and the trees practically explode when
> they burn. The native California trees don't do this; many survive
> fires, and in fact depend on them to eliminate competition and
> parasites.
>
Ya gotta love a gumtree. They give off all sorts of volatiles in hot
weather. Eucalyptus are spread by heating the seeds that are laying
about in the ground litter. After the fire and then the rain being an
optimum time to germinate when the big trees have been burnt out.
> Some things just happen, and can't be prevented, and there's nobody to
> blame.
>
> John
>
Andrew
Charlie Edmondson
Well, one problem is the way insurance companies work. You have a
replacement insurance policy. Your house burns down. The insurance
company will INSIST that you build an exact duplicate of your house, as
that is what they insured. Sure, there may be some exceptions if needed
to bring up to code (and there were MAJOR changes to 'code' in San Diego
after the last fire. I know, I was trying to build a house there!) but
if it isn't REQUIRED, then you can't make changes and still collect on
teh insurance...
Charlie
Jim Thompson
<edmo...@ieee.org> wrote:
[snip]
>>
>
>Well, one problem is the way insurance companies work. You have a
>replacement insurance policy. Your house burns down. The insurance
>company will INSIST that you build an exact duplicate of your house, as
>that is what they insured. Sure, there may be some exceptions if needed
>to bring up to code (and there were MAJOR changes to 'code' in San Diego
>after the last fire. I know, I was trying to build a house there!) but
>if it isn't REQUIRED, then you can't make changes and still collect on
>teh insurance...
>
>Charlie
Charlie, The insurance restrictions are like that only in
Californica. My "replacement" policy doesn't restrict you to "exact".
Jim Yanik
news:4725f...@news.chariot.net.au:
> John Larkin wrote:
><sniped>
>> The California situation is different. Enormous areas are heavily
>> loaded with trees and brush. It rains in the winter and we get
>> essentially zero precip from April to November, and most of the grass
>> and brush goes to seed and dies and turns light brown (hence the name
>> "Golden State".)
> This would then be the ideal time to do prevention burns to remove the
> undergrowth.
But the environuts will not permit it. CA is full of environuts.
RST Engineering (jw)
>>know, gold.
>>
>
> No, the entrance to the San Francisco Bay was called the "Golden Gate"
> two years before the gold discovery at Sutter's Mill. The state was
> probably named for its autumn colors, not the gold.
Sorry, John, but the history of the state was something that I specialized
in a few years ago when I had to. You are correct, the Golden Gate was
named such a few years before Sutter's Mill, but the state itself was
admitted to the Union two years AFTER the discovery and took the name from
the mineral that made it famous.
Indeed California itself was named after a mythical city in the novel
Califia whose streets were paved with gold bricks.
Jim
John Larkin
Well, I did say "probably", probably because I read that somewhere.
John