OT : a must read.
Eeyore
By Chris Hedges
November 16, 2008 "Truthdig" -- - We live in two Americas. One America,
now the minority, functions in a print-based, literate world. It can
cope with complexity and has the intellectual tools to separate illusion
from truth. The other America, which constitutes the majority, exists in
a non-reality-based belief system. This America, dependent on skillfully
manipulated images for information, has severed itself from the
literate, print-based culture. It cannot differentiate between lies and
truth. It is informed by simplistic, childish narratives and clichés. It
is thrown into confusion by ambiguity, nuance and self-reflection. This
divide, more than race, class or gender, more than rural or urban,
believer or nonbeliever, red state or blue state, has split the country
into radically distinct, unbridgeable and antagonistic entities.
There are over 42 million American adults, 20 percent of whom hold high
school diplomas, who cannot read, as well as the 50 million who read at
a fourth- or fifth-grade level. Nearly a third of the nation’s
population is illiterate or barely literate. And their numbers are
growing by an estimated 2 million a year. But even those who are
supposedly literate retreat in huge numbers into this image-based
existence. A third of high school graduates, along with 42 percent of
college graduates, never read a book after they finish school. Eighty
percent of the families in the United States last year did not buy a
book...............
Continues with very incisive comments.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article21239.htm
Graham
Phil Allison
"Eeysore the Sick Donkey "
> America the Illiterate
>
> By Chris Hedges
** Who gives a fuck what some anonymous jerk-off writes on a web site ?
( snip pile of appalling and mindless verbal diarrhoea)
> Continues with very incisive comments.
** Huh ????
Bout as " incisive " as the ravings of some manic depressive on drugs.
Like Graham Stevenson is.
...... Phil
John Larkin
What an obnoxious twit you are.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_literacy_rate
I have never personally known any healthy kid or adult who could not
read. 42 million would constitute an illiteracy rate around 14%, which
is absurd. I'm sure we have many immigrants who are not very literate
in english, but that doesn't make them illiterate.
The 80% number is obviously insane.
Oh, did I mention what an obnoxious twit you are? You're doing some
seriously slimy bottom-feeding here...
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/
Look:
http://www.booksellers.org.uk/doc/
"The UK has higher per capita book purchases than all markets except
the US..."
"UK bookshops offer a narrower product range with a lower weighted
average gross margin than most other markets."
What an idiot.
John
Jamie
> "Eeysore the Sick Donkey "
>
>
>>America the Illiterate
>>
>>By Chris Hedges
>
>
>
> ** Who gives a fuck what some anonymous jerk-off writes on a web site ?
>
>
> ( snip pile of appalling and mindless verbal diarrhoea)
>
^^^^^^^^^^
Better watch that, diarrhea is hereditary,
it tends to run in the genes..
>
>>Continues with very incisive comments.
>
>
>
> ** Huh ????
>
> Bout as " incisive " as the ravings of some manic depressive on drugs.
>
> Like Graham Stevenson is.
>
>
>
>
> ...... Phil
>
>
Vladimir Vassilevsky
John Larkin wrote:
> I have never personally known any healthy kid or adult who could not
> read. 42 million would constitute an illiteracy rate around 14%, which
> is absurd. I'm sure we have many immigrants who are not very literate
> in english, but that doesn't make them illiterate.
>
> The 80% number is obviously insane.
Braza u just hav tu luk into the newsgrups.
The 80% is probably the right number for the illiterate, ignorant and
profane messages.
Vladimir Vassilevsky
DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultant
http://www.abvolt.com
John Larkin
<rabbitsfriend...@hotmail.com> wrote:
http://www.literacytrust.org.uk/database/stats/adultstats.html
Nearly four out of 10 adults in some parts of England cannot read or
write properly or do simple sums according to a Basic Skills Agency's
report in May 2000. This report came a year after the agency's
chairman Sir Claus Moser's report, which described the serious problem
of 20% of adults being "functionally illiterate". A reinterpretation
of the Moser data put the national average even higher, at 24% -
rising to nearly 40% in some areas. On average, 15% have low literacy,
5% have lower literacy and 4% have very low literacy.
(Source: Basic Skills Agency report, May 2000)
Idiot.
John
Rupert
wrote:
> America the Illiterate
>
> By Chris Hedges
> There are over 42 million American adults, 20 percent of whom hold high
> school diplomas, who cannot read, as well as the 50 million who read at
> a fourth- or fifth-grade level. Nearly a third of the nation’s
Unfortunately, it appears GW is part of this group regardless of the
accuracy of the figures.
Rupert
George's Pro Sound Company
"Rupert" <foods...@linkline.com> wrote in message
news:8b09d00f-3831-4a1d...@t26g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
Rupert
let us just thank the goddess he is leaveing
George
liquidator
"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriend...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:49596113...@hotmail.com...
> America the Illiterate
>
Pure crap. I think a helluva lot less of you after that Graham.
While a loud vocal minority might be as he says, you and he have no clue
what an American really is.
Very loud vocal minorities...including you...should never be taken
seriously.
Eeyore
John Larkin wrote:
> http://www.literacytrust.org.uk/database/stats/adultstats.html
>
> Nearly four out of 10 adults in some
Some = deprived.
What's Detoit's inner city rate for example ?
> parts of England cannot read or
> write properly or do simple sums according to a Basic Skills Agency's
> report in May 2000.
I bet that's a lot better than the USA. Of course it's all been caused by
politicians tinkering in 'politically correct' education.
Graham
Phil Allison
"liquidator"
> "Eeysore"
>> America the Illiterate
>>
>
> Pure crap. I think a helluva lot less of you after that Graham.
** Here is the official UN list on world literacy rates.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_literacy_rate
Wot a JOKE !!!
The whole topic is a load of COMPLETE BOLLOCKS !!!
No-body can un-ambiguously define what literacy even is - the bar can be
set at any damn height you like and different groups each with a different
** HIDDEN AGENDA ** does exactly that.
It's all purest Humbug !!
..... Phil
John Larkin
leaveing?
John
John Larkin
The moron spends some fraction of his life prowling the web for bad
things about the USA, and accepts anything he can find no matter how
absurd. He's never been here and seems to have some serious
inferiority complex thing going.
I wonder what British-made CPU he has inside his computer, and what
British OS he runs, and what British ICs he uses in his little audio
amplifiers.
John
liquidator
"John Larkin" <jjla...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in message
news:vhvil452u5a84fo5v...@4ax.com...
>>
>>let us just thank the goddess he is leaveing
>>George
>>
>
> leaveing?
>
> John
>
Hey if Graham can say "Detoit" George should be able to get away with
"leaveing".
My typing skills are horrid. Often it's more a case of not caring enough to
proofread on my part, I suspect the same on George's.
From my viewpoint, UK and US are just different.
Fine by me...I have an old '50's MG. It's cantankerous, leaks oil, and
expensive to fix.
Would I part with it? No friggin' way.
Ihave 64 acres with a stream in Ohio...try to buy something like THAT in
the UK.
OTOH try to find centuries old buildings here...
Ya can't argue apples and oranges...
bill....@ieee.org
wrote:
It all depends how you define literacy
http://www.conferenceboard.ca/HCP/Details/education/adult-literacy-rate-low-skills.aspx
In the USA and the UK about half the population "have literacy skills
too low to be fully competent in most jobs in our modern economy"
Australia and Canada are a bit worse, Belgium, the Netherlands and the
Baltic countries worse still.
Chris Hedges does seem to be talking about even higher level skills -
of the kind that you lack - that allow people to make distinctions
between poorly argued propaganda - such as the global warming denial
propaganda that fails to alert your scepticism (such as it is) and
properly referenced rational argument (which you can't follow and
consequently don't believe).
Presumably the proportion of people who can take full advantage of the
full range of information now available (much of it intended to
mislead) is a good deal less than 50%.
It's a trifle ironic that Chris Hedges' polemic looks very like the
kind of poorly argued propaganda that he is complaining about, and
could only appeal to those whose critical skills were poorly developed
- he makes a fairly specific claim about the distribution of reading
skills in modern America
"There are over 42 million American adults, 20 percent of whom hold
high school diplomas, who cannot read, as well as the 50 million who
read at a fourth- or fifth-grade level. Nearly a third of the nation’s
population is illiterate or barely literate. And their numbers are
growing by an estimated 2 million a year. But even those who are
supposedly literate retreat in huge numbers into this image-based
existence. A third of high school graduates, along with 42 percent of
college graduates, never read a book after they finish school. Eighty
percent of the families in the United States last year did not buy a
book."
but he doesn't tell us where this information came from, when it was
collected or by whom, nor even what he means by "cannot read".
This makes it less than reliable. It is a pity that you failed to
notice this, but scarcely surprising, granting your uncritical
enthusiasm for every bit of information you can find on Exxon-Mobil
funded web-sites.
--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
Phil Allison
<bill....@ieee.org
Eeyore ote:
> America the Illiterate
>
> By Chris Hedges
( snip shite)
It's a trifle ironic that Chris Hedges' polemic looks very like the
kind of poorly argued propaganda that he is complaining about, and
could only appeal to those whose critical skills were poorly developed
- he makes a fairly specific claim about the distribution of reading
skills in modern America
** Look carefully for the hidden agenda - it ain't that well hidden.
Hedges ( likely a fake name) is an obvious racist & fascist bigot.
He bemoans ad nauseam a supposed lack of high level literacy in the USA -
like that is something quite recent.
He then goes on to complain about the US President in waiting as having
exploited that very lack to get elected.
Join the dots .......
The posturing turd is pissed off that millions of ignorant and (to him)
basically illiterate niggers voted in a black Democrat as president.
..... Phil
o...@uakron.edu
you" a day from Phil Poison Pen. Well, finally, I'm gonna forget the
golden rule and let him have it. Here Goes.
I student taught twice, (The required apprenticeship where a future
teacher works for 3-6 months for free under a master teacher) Once at
a inner city school and once at a rich suburban district. OK, at the
RSD, everybody could read, even most of the special needs kids.
In the inner city, I was teaching a 10th grade history class. I
had what I called the 50/50/50 attendance figures, 50 % of listed
students showed up on any given day, but never the same 50%. Due to
mandatory integration and busing , in years past, my class was 50/50
everything, white, black, hispanic, asian,hybrid, unknown, male ,
female , a real melting pot. The text we used was a 6th grade text,
less then 30% of my class could smoothly read aloud from that text.
I'd say 10% were at less then 1st grade reading levels, and out of one
class of 20, I know 4 could NOT read. I know, I gave them a verbal
final exam because of social promotion.
So FUCK YOU Phil, you have never had to look into a crying 10th
graders eyes. I will never forget his face. Why did he cry? I went
down the rows and columns of the seats and asked each student a
question about the previous days assignment. Just like the teachers
at my fancy, private, alma mater did. I was a merciless bastard in
the classroom when it came to trying to reach a goal of learning. None
of this only the smart , sassy , volunteers answer the questions shit.
Every student got at least two questions a class. That kid wanted to
learn, but remedial classes were not available to him, and one day he
got tired of faking it, and tired of making sassy remarks to hide his
problem. He broke down because social promotion and lack of funding
had failed him
You ready for what my ex Navy friends call a "No Shitter" , Phil? We
were NOT allowed to assign book based homework Phil!, You know why?
Because the district could not allow the books to go home, as they
would end up in the dumpster, or never come back.
I was trained to teach six through twelve history, political
science, and geography.I was NOT prepared in any way to teach third
grade reading. To say I was out of my depths was a understatement in
that situation. I was not taught the skills to teach basic reading,
my courses prepared me for the suburbs. I had to get a crash course
in fundamental reading skills from the skilled teachers, the ones
that bought 3rd grade materials to supplement the provided materials.
From their own pocket, I might add.
Case in point, one day we are doing a reading comprehension
assignment, simple enough, read the book, fill in the missing blanks
to complete the sentence.
I get 5 papers out of 25 with "Strawberry Jam and Bread Sank the
Bismarck". You know why I got 7 papers saying a damn PBJ sandwich
sank the ship? I'll tell you why, the text was abridged, they (the 5
students ) could not follow the turn of the page. So I pulled them
all together after class, and told them "If your gonna cheat, at least
cheat RIGHT, ONE of you find the right answer."
So yeah, we have a lot of folks that believe what they are told. It
is told by Hollywood/The News at a 5th or 6th grade level. Those of
us who can read are a dying breed.
After I had to flunk a student whom, on religious grounds, kept her
baby after being gang raped. I left teaching. You know, she was
allowed to miss twenty-eight days. She had labor complications and
trials to attend etc. The hospital called, the baby was very sick, it
needed its mom. She left the school. SO , she missed day twenty nine.
I begged the principal for a exception, as policy was, pregnant
students get transferred, then flunked. She was a "A" student from
the magnet school for the arts, and transferred to the worst dump in
the city. Despite a ton of social workers, doctors, cops, a
prosecutor, and myself trying to intervene, the principal said "Nope,
can't do that wouldn't want to risk setting a precedent". Not like
any of her fellow students would even know she was missing a day, or
even care to count.
Go watch the damn John Belushi movie of the idealistic principal with
the baseball bat, only rescript it a bit. Instead of him roaming the
halls cracking skulls and firing bad teachers, put his character
cowering in his office, and moaning, "Why do the reporters come here
and cover my school, Goodyear had a shooting last week..."
BTW, the inner city kids, they all had menial jobs some place, even
the under age ones, Somebody liked cheap labor.
I'm not a crying heart liberal, but damn it, I hate the idea of my
skills having to carry a full third or more of the population. That
was in 95, and I hear its gotten worse. The rotten city district,
itself, is on academic emergency status, and is poised for a state
takeover.
So wake up and smell the fake flowers in your mind Phil, as reality
sucks.
Steve Roberts
Sean Conolly
news:57b1bc38-bbc2-4bf5...@n41g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
You were teaching in the wrong district my friend. But maybe that's part of
the point - education is failing not at a national or state level but at a
local level. And guess which political party dominates the counties that
have policies such as you've described?
Sean
Arny Krueger
> There are over 42 million American adults, 20 percent of
> whom hold high school diplomas, who cannot read, as well
> as the 50 million who read at a fourth- or fifth-grade
> level. Nearly a third of the nation's population is
> illiterate or barely literate. And their numbers are
> growing by an estimated 2 million a year. But even those
> who are supposedly literate retreat in huge numbers into
> this image-based existence. A third of high school
> graduates, along with 42 percent of college graduates,
> never read a book after they finish school. Eighty
> percent of the families in the United States last year
> did not buy a book...............
Yeah, but very many of them bought magazines and newspapers. Yeah, many of
these are very light reads, but its reading.
Let's talk about a very specific example, that is probably pretty typical of
very many other places.
I live a few hundred yards from the City of Detroit, for which it is claimed
that the adult illiteracy rate is about 50%.
The literacy rate in virtually all of Detroit's suburbs probably averages
more like 95%+. Furthermore, a very high percentage of the people in the
suburbs were born and raised in Detroit.
I'm not so much into whining, but figuring what the problem is and what can
be done about it. And don't rag on me. I've worked to improve Detroit by
doing volunteer work in Detroit neighborhoods. My wife works in a suburban
school where preschool kids from Detroit are taught. I've worked and lived
in Detroit for years and years, even though I don't do so now.
There's an obvious question here, and what is there about living on the
other side of any number of residential and commercial streets (that's what
the borders of Detroit versus the suburbs are, not some Berlin-style wall,
river, mountain, or chasm) that keeps people from learning how to read?
It's like the borders of Detroit are an invisible sieve that only literate
people can pass through as far as where they live is concerned.
There are no check points, border crossings, or physical borders between
Detroit and its suburbs. Detroit's borders run down the middle of busy
streets, the middle of normal residential streets, through some houses,
garages, and through many perfectly ordinary back yards.
People can get jobs inside or outside of Detroit, and 100,000's of people
from the suburbs work in Detroit and 100,000's of people who live in Detroit
work in the suburbs.
The water supply on both sides of Detroit's borders comes from the same
purification plants, so it is not the water.
The wind blows freely across Detroit's border so it is not the air.
Equal opportunity housing is the law in the U.S., and there is plenty of
evidence that anybody who wants to live outside of Detroit can do so, even
if they live on the government dole. There are close and far suburbs with a
lower cost of living than Detroit.
People of the same races and nationality groups live on both sides of the
border, admittedly in different proportions. But there are enough people of
all kinds who can read on both sides of the border, so it is obviously not
absolutely genetic, native language, or national-heritage dependent.
There is free even compulsory education for children, and free or very
low-cost education for adults on both sides of Detroit's borders. There are
libraries, book stores, newspapers, educational TV stations, etc. that serve
on both sides of the borders. There are well-publicized programs that
encourage people to read or learn how. There are 100's of thousands of
people who do know how to read and could potentially teach non-readers how
to read on both sides of Detroit's borders.
So, you guys are smart people, right?
Please explain why Detroit has an adult illiteracy rate of about 50%, and
Detroit's suburbs are very close to a literacy rate of 100%.
The only readily discernable objective difference is which side of an
invisible political boundary that the people live on.
Phil Allison
<o...@uakron.edu>
( snip log, meandering, self indulgent manic rant full of personal anecdotes
in lieu of actual fact )
> So wake up and smell the fake flowers in your mind Phil, as reality
> sucks.
>
> Steve Roberts
** Hi Steve,
care to explain how your passionate rant has ANY connection with anything I
posted ??
I ask this mostly cos you failed to include ANY quote from me attached to
your thesis.
And secondly, cos it seems to me your thinking suffers horribly from the two
most serious stumbling blocks in adult literacy - the issues of
maintaining relevance and staying within context.
IOW, I don't think you have a single, funking clue what I was saying.
..... Phil
krw
krw
@yaaho.com says...>
...and which one wants to take it national.
MooseFET
[....]
>
> Ya can't argue apples and oranges...
You must be new here, if you say that :>
jakdedert
<snip>
>
> but he doesn't tell us where this information came from, when it was
> collected or by whom, nor even what he means by "cannot read".
>
> This makes it less than reliable. It is a pity that you failed to
> notice this, but scarcely surprising, granting your uncritical
> enthusiasm for every bit of information you can find on Exxon-Mobil
> funded web-sites.
>
> --
> Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
>
>
>
convoluted, that it takes way too much analysis to understand just what
the numbers mean.
But he makes it 'sound' pretty dire. I find it hard to believe that
there are 92 million American adults who read at less than 6th grade
level. With 300 million citizens in this country, that would equal
nearly a third *of all ages* who cannot read effectively. I'd have to
research how many of those 300 million are over 18; but I'd imagine it
to be around half. That would mean, with the numbers given (but not
cited), that well over half of American adults (92 out of 150 million)
are nearly illiterate.
jak
jakdedert
x-posted that you are responding. I also understand that you have
written basically an impassioned rant, and perhaps didn't go back to
proofread. You make several very good points, and your experiences are
interesting.
That said, the post is so filled with grammatical errors that it's hard
to believe that you were trained as any kind of educator. I think that
it's fortunate that you ultimately chose a different profession.
jak
o...@uakron.edu
two years ago that got the grammer and spelling and the ability to
remember names.
I used to be a B+ student in the day.
Steve
John Larkin
You're not a donkey, you're a weasel.
John
liquidator
"MooseFET" <kens...@rahul.net> wrote in message
news:26d3efdc-db3f-4f7e...@n33g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
ROTFL
Actually what Graham did to aggravate his troll is post to 3 different
newsgroups...from my viewpoint I'm over here and you are over there...
When anybody new comes into a group, there are arguments and
misunderstandings...
What Graham did was intentionally make a controversial post to 3 different
groups of people...so in addition to the differeing opinions, you get people
who don't know each other, so the potential for flames is incredibly
magnified.
Graham wanted flames. This whole thread is a troll on his part.
We need an internet bar. We could all get together over a virtual beer.
Beck's Dark for me please...really, most of the heavier Euro beers and
similar American micros will do just fine..
We'd need a bouncer to toss guys like Graham who come in just to start
arguments.
liquidator
"StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt" <Zarat...@thusspoke.org> wrote in message
news:roqjl491sjn0usetv...@4ax.com...
> couldn't handle the information level a pilot maintains.
Gee, a Bush fan. I thought they were extinct.
Frankly flying a jet isn't all that hard. Yes you go faster but you tend to
fly at altitudes where there is less traffic.
Basically any competent pilot can pay a few thousand and qualify in an
ex-Air Force T33 trainer.
liquidator
"jakdedert" <jakd...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:UMr6l.369$3y5...@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
Well said. One reason kids don't learn is incompetent teachers.
I personally think his post was at least 50% fabricated, and the remainder
exaggerated.
History is filled with people who taught themselves to read. Today, many
more resources are available...the net for instance.
I think people who want to learn can..I do feel sorry for the ones in a
class disrupted by others...but that's a detour not a roadblock.
liquidator
"Arny Krueger" <ar...@hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:CNCdnQycz5MihMfU...@giganews.com...
James Arthur
> There's an obvious question here, and what is there about living on the
> other side of any number of residential and commercial streets (that's what
> the borders of Detroit versus the suburbs are, not some Berlin-style wall,
> river, mountain, or chasm) that keeps people from learning how to read?
Maybe it's an idea that prevents them, the idea that education comes
from somewhere else, somewhere far away.
My mom taught me. I was 5.
Cheers,
James Arthur
RST Engineering (jw)
> I'm not a crying heart liberal, but damn it, I hate the idea of my
> skills having to carry a full third or more of the population. That
> was in 95, and I hear its gotten worse. The rotten city district,
> itself, is on academic emergency status, and is poised for a state
> takeover.
>
> So wake up and smell the fake flowers in your mind Phil, as reality
> sucks.
>
> Steve Roberts
>
Steve ...
I don't know whether it will cheer you or depress you, but the same sort of
crap goes on at the college level, too.
Jim
Eeyore
krw wrote:
> ar...@hotpop.com says...>
> > "Eeyore" <rabbitsfriend...@hotmail.com> wrote
> >
Arny's a pretty smart guy. And he's thoughful about things. I'll have to digest
his response in more detail before replying directly. I can already see some very
relevant points.
Graham
Eeyore
liquidator wrote:
> "Eeyore" <rabbitsfriend...@hotmail.com> wrote
>
> > America the Illiterate
>
> Pure crap. I think a helluva lot less of you after that Graham.
>
> While a loud vocal minority might be as he says, you and he have no clue
> what an American really is.
I know there are some astonishingly smart ones and a load of dim ones. But
did you read the whole article ?
> Very loud vocal minorities...including you...should never be taken
> seriously.
So you like corrupt politicians and 'dumbing down' over vocal minorities who
actually give a damn ?
Graham
Rupert
<Zarathus...@thusspoke.org> wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 16:52:29 -0800 (PST), Rupert
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <foodste...@linkline.com> wrote:
> >On Dec 29, 3:45 pm, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com>
> >wrote:
> >> America the Illiterate
>
> >> By Chris Hedges
> >> ...
> >> school diplomas, who cannot read, as well as the 50 million who read at
> >> a fourth- or fifth-grade level. Nearly a third of the nation’s
>
> >Unfortunately, it appears GW is part of this group regardless of the
> >accuracy of the figures.
>
> >Rupert
>
> You're a goddamned retard. He was a jet pilot. Your pathetic brain
> couldn't handle the information level a pilot maintains.
The man can't put together a proper sentence in English to save his
life. Anyone can learn to operate a machine by wrote and still be
illiterate. Put that in YOUR pipe and smoke it.
Rupert
Eeyore
Phil Allison wrote:
> "liquidator"
> > "Eeysore"
> >> America the Illiterate
> >>
> >
> > Pure crap. I think a helluva lot less of you after that Graham.
>
> ** Here is the official UN list on world literacy rates.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_literacy_rate
>
> Wot a JOKE !!!
>
> The whole topic is a load of COMPLETE BOLLOCKS !!!
>
> No-body can un-ambiguously define what literacy even is - the bar can be
> set at any damn height you like and different groups each with a different
> ** HIDDEN AGENDA ** does exactly that.
>
> It's all purest Humbug !!
Before long the highest number of people with good literacy in English will
live in CHINA.
Read Bill Bryson's 'Mother Tongue'
Graham
Eeyore
John Larkin wrote:
> The moron spends some fraction of his life prowling the web for bad
> things about the USA
Not at all. No prowling is needed. There's more than enough evidence. Proud
of the Iraq War eh ?
Graham
Eeyore
Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote:
> John Larkin wrote:
>
> > I have never personally known any healthy kid or adult who could not
> > read. 42 million would constitute an illiteracy rate around 14%, which
> > is absurd. I'm sure we have many immigrants who are not very literate
> > in english, but that doesn't make them illiterate.
> >
> > The 80% number is obviously insane.
>
> Braza u just hav tu luk into the newsgrups.
> The 80% is probably the right number for the illiterate, ignorant and
> profane messages.
Just look in the energy groups or You Tube. The number who believe in 'free
energy' or perpetual motion types devices is scary. Almost every one is from
the USA.
Not one appears to understand basic scientific principles. Am I right that
science is no longer a mandatory subject in US schools ? Sure I heard that
somewhere. And as for langage. There is only one of course. Or are foreign
languages taught ?
I learnt 3 languages other than English btw including French for 8 years
from age 8. I became virtually bi-lingual in due course. Plus I passed TWO
exams in English. English Language and English Literature, yet I 'majored'
in Science.
Graham
Eeyore
John Larkin wrote:
I think Arny said half IIRC.
> >> parts of England cannot read or
> >> write properly or do simple sums according to a Basic Skills Agency's
> >> report in May 2000.
> >
> >I bet that's a lot better than the USA. Of course it's all been caused by
> >politicians tinkering in 'politically correct' education.
>
> You're not a donkey, you're a weasel.
You think education in much of the west today is even barely ADEQUATE ? Before
long the Asians will have the intellectual jobs as well as the manufacturing
ones. And I may well be lecturing them because almost no-one's interested in
design engineering here any more. The kids think they can all be 'rock stars',
TV personalities and 'gangstas'.
The reality is that they end up in retail behind a till but even there,
immigrants are taking over because they have better skills ! And where's retail
going ? I visited Woolworths today to take a peek. They're even selling off the
shop fittings in the final sale. Last day tomorrow.
Today's prediction on the News. 2009 will see 15 major UK companies go into
receivership and 600,000 added to the umenployed. Unemployable more like.
What's it' going to be like in the USA I dread to think.
Graham
John O
> science is no longer a mandatory subject in US schools ?
No. Each state sets its own educational standards and science is always in
the list.
-John O
Eeyore
George's Pro Sound Company wrote:
> "Rupert" <foods...@linkline.com> wrote in message
> > Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > America the Illiterate
> >
> > By Chris Hedges
> > ...
> > There are over 42 million American adults, 20 percent of whom hold high
> > school diplomas, who cannot read, as well as the 50 million who read at
> > a fourth- or fifth-grade level. Nearly a third of the nation’s
> > population is illiterate or barely literate...
>
> Unfortunately, it appears GW is part of this group regardless of the
> accuracy of the figures.
>
> Rupert
>
> let us just thank the goddess he is leaveing
Too late sadly. The damage is criminal. Tax cuts for the rich will enhance
the economy ? Hahahahahahaa. Thatcher believed that too btw.
Incidentally, did you read that although GM has been bailed out for a bit, it
relies on GMAC to provide finance for sales and that's in a pickle too. MORE
bailouts ?
Try getting a car loan !
Graham
Eeyore
John Larkin wrote:
> "George's Pro Sound Company" <bm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >let us just thank the goddess he is leaveing
> >George
>
> leaveing?
George is a classic example of the literacy problem. At least he remembered to
spell his name with a capital G this time. He usually doesn't. His attitude is
that spellling doesn't matter.
Now upon what subject did this thread start ?
Graham
Eeyore
liquidator wrote:
> "John Larkin" <jjla...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote
> >>
> >>let us just thank the goddess he is leaveing
> >>George
> >
> > leaveing?
> >
> > John
>
> Hey if Graham can say "Detoit"
A typo silly. Cold fingers. I know damn well it's Detroit. George OTOH is
recknowned for his mis-spelling.
Graham
Eeyore
liquidator wrote:
> "MooseFET" <kens...@rahul.net> wrote in message
> On Dec 29, 6:41 pm, "liquidator" <mi...@mad.scientist.com>
> >
> > Ya can't argue apples and oranges...
>
> You must be new here, if you say that :>
>
> ROTFL
>
> Actually what Graham did to aggravate his troll is post to 3 different
> newsgroups...from my viewpoint I'm over here and you are over there...
>
> When anybody new comes into a group, there are arguments and
> misunderstandings...
>
> What Graham did was intentionally make a controversial post to 3 different
> groups of people
Whom I am all familiar with and these groups all have a record of OT posts on
controversial matters and I expected a mix of responses. Cal it a bit of
cross-fertilisation.
Graham
Eeyore
StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt wrote:
> Rupert <foods...@linkline.com> wrote:
> > Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> America the Illiterate
> >>
> >> By Chris Hedges
> >> ...
> >> There are over 42 million American adults, 20 percent of whom hold high
> >> school diplomas, who cannot read, as well as the 50 million who read at
> >> a fourth- or fifth-grade level. Nearly a third of the nation’s
> >> population is illiterate or barely literate...
> >
> >Unfortunately, it appears GW is part of this group regardless of the
> >accuracy of the figures.
>
> You're a goddamned retard. He was a jet pilot. Your pathetic brain
> couldn't handle the information level a pilot maintains.
'Top Gun' didn't exactly give me any confidence in that. Now ... an Airline
pilot, maybe.
Graham
James Arthur
> On Dec 30, 1:35 am, StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt
> <Zarathus...@thusspoke.org> wrote:
>>> On Dec 29, 3:45 pm, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> America the Illiterate
>>>> By Chris Hedges
>>>> ...
>>>> There are over 42 million American adults, 20 percent of whom hold high
>>>> school diplomas, who cannot read, as well as the 50 million who read at
>>>> a fourth- or fifth-grade level. Nearly a third of the nation’s
>>>> population is illiterate or barely literate...
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, it appears GW is part of this group regardless of the
>>> accuracy of the figures.
>>> Rupert
>>
>> You're a goddamned retard. He was a jet pilot. Your pathetic brain
>> couldn't handle the information level a pilot maintains.
>
> The man can't put together a proper sentence in English to save his
> life. Anyone can learn to operate a machine by wrote and still be
"by rote" ---------------------------------------^^^^^
> illiterate. Put that in YOUR pipe and smoke it.
>
> Rupert
What's that usenet law about grammar? Ah, Skitt's...
Cheers,
James Arthur
o...@uakron.edu
> "jakdedert" <jakded...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
Not fabricated, I did 10 months in in that place, one summer
school of mandatory "volunteer hours".I then returned for student
teaching.
When it came time to close a high school for budget reasons, that
one was #1 on the list, and closed. The building is now used as a
temporary school as the district builds new buildings. It will then
be sold to a nearby university.
The girl mentioned dropped out of school, she lived down the street
from the school, and we would see her standing outside each morning as
we drove to the building. My supervising teacher, went with me to the
main office, when we went to see the principal on her behalf. As a so
called "lesson" for me, I was the one who had to tell her the bad
news.
Another fun one, was parent teacher conference night, when one pair
of parents showed up drunk.
And even worse, since the clock system in the building was not
maintained, it was removed, at the request of the teacher's
council.
My personal all time favorite, was not being allowed to wear a sport
coat. The deal made with the gangs, quite simply, was, teachers and
staff will give up jackets if they give up gang colors. Since the
university had a dress code for student teachers, I got docked points
by my university supervisor, for no jacket.
One of my duties was trying to get a hold of parents by phone , for
the PT conference. Instead of attending, most just called the main
office with excuses. For this reason, regular teachers had to do a
number of home visits per month, usually on weekends.
The professor who supervised me, was asked by the principal, not to
come back. The reasoning, he ran scared from the parking lot to "my"
classroom on the second floor. He literally ran. This was considered
wrong for one, showing fear and two , for running like a mad man past
security. Security chased him down, and I had to vouch for his
identity. I got even with him for that event, I scheduled his next
inspection on a class visit to the library, and he had to talk to the
kids, and help them use the card file.
Teachers were expected to take the main stairway only, and not to go
into the bathrooms alone.
While I was there, a police woman was assaulted in the lunch room,
three students jumped her, beat her, and took her gun away. She hit a
panic button and the other two officers came and "rescued" her. Later
the gun. was recovered in a distant hallway. I had the misfortune of
being in the teachers lounge on her first day back, and ended up being
the one who she wanted to talk to. She wanted a outside party to help
her make the stay/leave decision.
Student teachers are not expected to be in the lounge, but in that
school, you needed to be there to get the information needed to get
through the day.
And one thing that really put me on the spot, happened in the Lounge.
My supervising teacher, asked me: "Mr Roberts, I know you like to
shoot, would you like to form a 9 millimeter club?" My answer, not
thinking, was" Mr Jones, of course I would like to own a 9 mm, but I
can't afford one" His next action was to turn to the building
principal, and say: "Mr Roberts needs a 9 mil, lets get the cops and
dogs and schedule a locker search!".
You can't make that kind of stuff up, and it did happen. So did
the daily distribution of drugs, in the church parking lot, after
school.
Nobody is held accountable, as those who are to enforce the rules,
consider the situation hopeless. Your tax dollars pay for the welfare
and medicare for all these folks who become unproductive members of
society. A large portion of your hospital bill is inflated to pay for
indigent care. A large portion of your taxes go to pay for the
highest rate of incarceration in the world.
So I've went back to my hobby of electronics, and ended up at a
university doing the support work for grad students. And a fair amount
of teaching as well. Until I was downsized recently. The funding got
rerouted, guess where? Now I do some consulting on Non Lethal
Weapons.
Oh, and if you think I did not use the teaching skills, the
professor I worked for asked me to sponsor students for Intel ISEF.
The 16+students I mentored did 200,000 dollars in scholarships, travel
awards, and school team prizes. More then one team did 2nd place or
better in the team events at ISEF, Note ISEF is the Intel Science and
Engineering Fair.
Steve Roberts
liquidator
"StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt" <Zarat...@thusspoke.org> wrote in message
news:hr1ll4ppjcakccd28...@4ax.com...
Tecnically shit IS fertilizer..doesn't make it any more enjoyable to have
around though.
Maybe he should move to China...he could be out standing in his field with
all the shit he wants...
liquidator
"Archimedes' Lever" <OneBi...@InfiniteSeries.Org> wrote in message
news:esvkl4dtdjcr1u5iq...@4ax.com...
> The main point being that he is not as dumb as folks have made him out
> to be, and those that have are really giving the world an indication of
> their mental capacity (or lack thereof), not that of the President.
Fair point.
Still detest him .
His communications skills aren't the best...and frankly I think most policy
was set by Cheney and company rather than him. So he certainly isn't the
world's most evil man...I'd give him Top 100 though...
liquidator
"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriend...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:495A7D27...@hotmail.com...
I see- a drunk airline pilot is smarter than a spoiled rich Texas cowboy?
Personally not sure either is worth my time.
George's Pro Sound Company
>>>cross-fertilisation.
>>>
>>>Graham
>>
I guess mine is not the only name on the illiterates list.
george
Eeyore
StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt wrote:
> The word is "ROTE", you retarded twit!
You see what I mean about falling literacy skills ?
Graham
Eeyore
StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt wrote:
> You're an idiot if you think that the movie has any parallels
> whatsoever with real pilot training.
>
> > Now ... an Airline pilot, maybe.
>
> You are obviously too retarded to know anything about where they come
> from either, much less the degree or level of their educational
> repertoire.
Really ? I was taught by one.
Graham
Eeyore
StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt wrote:
> You're an idiot, Donkey boy.
>
> Yes, I and all allies that actually have a brain are and should be
> proud of the fact that Saddam is no longer killing Iraqis that do not fit
> in his puzzle box.
Indeed, Americans are killing far, far MORE Iraqis. Americans excel at killing.
Even killing each other.
Graham
krw
rabbitsfriend...@hotmail.com says...>
>
> > "Rupert" <foods...@linkline.com> wrote in message
> > > Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > America the Illiterate
> > >
> > > By Chris Hedges
> > > ...
> > > There are over 42 million American adults, 20 percent of whom hold high
> > > school diplomas, who cannot read, as well as the 50 million who read at
> > > population is illiterate or barely literate...
> >
> > Unfortunately, it appears GW is part of this group regardless of the
> > accuracy of the figures.
> >
> > Rupert
> >
> > let us just thank the goddess he is leaveing
>
> Too late sadly. The damage is criminal. Tax cuts for the rich will enhance
> the economy ? Hahahahahahaa. Thatcher believed that too btw.
Tax cuts for the tax payer. What a concept, Dumb Donkey.
> Incidentally, did you read that although GM has been bailed out for a bit, it
> relies on GMAC to provide finance for sales and that's in a pickle too. MORE
> bailouts ?
Dumbshit! GM doesn't load money. That's why they have GMAC, Dumb
Donkey.
> Try getting a car loan !
No problem. Any day I want. Any loan is easy, all you have to do
is show that you can and will pay it back. What a concept! What a
dipshit, Dumb Donkey.
--
Keith
krw
mi...@mad.scientist.com says...>
The only field Dumb Donkey could be outstanding in.
liquidator
"Archimedes' Lever" <OneBi...@InfiniteSeries.Org> wrote in message
>>
> The main problem with this country, and all highly prosperous free
> nations is that once things get all fuzzy and warm, folks get casual.
>
> That casual-ity has casualties.
>
> This is the same reason why victims seem to get worse treatment than
> perpetrators do in some instances.
Interesting view...
>
> This is why parents allow kids to roam around having fun, instead of
> insisting that they place their education first.
I think lots of the parents are too busy drinking or whatever...I grew up in
white ghettos...the drug of choice was alcohol and lots of it..you could buy
beer at 79-89 cents a six pack in the 1960's.
Typical wages would buy at least 2-3 six packs an hour...
Many just came home and drank all night.
These days real wages are down and drugs are more expensive, so are beer and
cigarettes.
>
> Parents are the cause of all our current problems, in the final
> analysis.
80-90% fer sure....
>
> That, and the fact that it takes two incomes per household in most of
> America to have a household these days.
>
> Obama said that "We cannot be in a depression, because they had 30%
> unemployment back then."
>
> Well, Chucko... back then, it only took one man's income to keep a
> household. Today, it takes two or even three incomes.
>
> So multiply our 9% figure by two or three and see what you have.
Now that makes no sense. In those days, loss of one income meant all...where
now it means a third to a half...so the figure would go the other way to 3
percent.
We do NOT have 30% of families with zero income like then...what we have is
lots of families with reduced income. It is nowhwere near as bad.
Sounds like you have an issue with Obama, you probably have read too many
Republican lying emails. Instead you should talk to the right wingers on the
Harvard Law Review who went to school with him.
I am appalled and disgusted by the stuff Republicans circulated around this
time. I'm a right wing anarchist if you want to talk politics...not a
leftie. But we really should get back in topic...we are wandering too
far...a few posts OK...but we're past too many I think.
liquidator
"John O" <johnos...@lottaspamheathkit.com> wrote in message
news:jUu6l.4079$jZ1....@flpi144.ffdc.sbc.com...
I believe that to be accurate. I would suggest Graham specify where he
thinks that to be true.
I think he is 100% wrong.
Mickey
On 2008-12-30, Archimedes' Lever <OneBi...@InfiniteSeries.Org> wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 10:51:00 -0800, "RST Engineering \(jw\)"
><j...@rstengineering.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>> I'm not a crying heart liberal, but damn it, I hate the idea of my
>>> skills having to carry a full third or more of the population. That
>>> was in 95, and I hear its gotten worse. The rotten city district,
>>> itself, is on academic emergency status, and is poised for a state
>>> takeover.
>>>
>>> So wake up and smell the fake flowers in your mind Phil, as reality
>>> sucks.
>>>
>>> Steve Roberts
>>>
>>
>>
>>I don't know whether it will cheer you or depress you, but the same sort of
>>crap goes on at the college level, too.
>>
>>Jim
>>
>
> I find it strange that the data entry clerk that did my time card back
> when I was an assembler in the early 80s made less than me, a skilled
> worker in the electronics industry.
>
> Move forward to now... Now, the simple data entry clerk that does my
> assemblers' timecards gets pro secretary pay at like $40k a year, and the
> assembler is still making less than $30k a year, yet the assembler is the
> one that makes the millions of dollars worth of products the company
> sells.
You conveniently ignore that fact that there are very, very few
data entry clerks any more. Plus your numbers are made up and wrong.
Salaries are determined by supply and demand in the U.S., unlike in much
of the world. If you have lots of people who can and will do a job,
salaries are low. If you have few who can and will, the salary is high.
Simple as that.
The upward -- and downward -- mobility of U.S. workers is unmatched.
If you are bright and industrious, you can be well off quite quickly.
But it has the other side of the coin. If you are a lazy fool,
you can get poor pretty easily, too.
--
Mickey
There comes a time when you should stop expecting other people to make
a big deal about your birthday. That time is age 12. -- Dave Barry
Mickey
> America to have a household these days.
>
> Obama said that "We cannot be in a depression, because they had 30%
> unemployment back then."
>
> Well, Chucko... back then, it only took one man's income to keep a
> household. Today, it takes two or even three incomes.
>
You just love to make up numbers, don't you. It doesn't "take two
incomes to have a household". Millions of people prove that statement
wrong every day.
It may take two incomes to allow people to live in the style to
which they have become accustomed, but it doesn't take two incomes
to have a household.
To achieve the standard of living the average person had in the
1930s, it takes less than one income. It is just that no one wants
to live in such a deprived fashion any more.
--
Mickey
The sun, with all those planets revolving around it and
dependent on it, can still ripen a bunch of grapes as if
it had nothing else in the universe to do. -- Galileo
Michael A. Terrell
Eeyore wrote:
>
> What's it' going to be like in the USA I dread to think.
Liar. You can't wait for the first company to close, or employee to
lose their job so you can gloat and brag.
--
http://improve-usenet.org/index.html
aioe.org, Goggle Groups, and Web TV users must request to be white
listed, or I will not see your messages.
If you have broadband, your ISP may have a NNTP news server included in
your account: http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm
There are two kinds of people on this earth:
The crazy, and the insane.
The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy.
Michael A. Terrell
> >
> > Ya can't argue apples and oranges...
>
> You must be new here, if you say that :>
>
> ROTFL
>
> Actually what Graham did to aggravate his troll is post to 3 different
> newsgroups...from my viewpoint I'm over here and you are over there...
The dumbass donkey is well known as an America hating troll on
news:sci.electronics.design
Michael A. Terrell
Eeyore wrote:
>
> Phil Allison wrote:
>
> > "liquidator"
> > > "Eeysore"
> > >> America the Illiterate
> > >>
> > >
> > > Pure crap. I think a helluva lot less of you after that Graham.
> >
> > ** Here is the official UN list on world literacy rates.
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_literacy_rate
> >
> > Wot a JOKE !!!
> >
> > The whole topic is a load of COMPLETE BOLLOCKS !!!
> >
> > No-body can un-ambiguously define what literacy even is - the bar can be
> > set at any damn height you like and different groups each with a different
> > ** HIDDEN AGENDA ** does exactly that.
> >
> > It's all purest Humbug !!
>
> Before long the highest number of people with good literacy in English will
> live in CHINA.
It definitely won't be in England. They speak fluent gibberish.
Michael A. Terrell
Eeyore wrote:
>
> John Larkin wrote:
>
> > The moron spends some fraction of his life prowling the web for bad
> > things about the USA
>
> Not at all. No prowling is needed. There's more than enough evidence. Proud
> of the Iraq War eh ?
Are you proud of the US Revolutionary war? How about the Falklands?
Michael A. Terrell
Eeyore wrote:
>
> liquidator wrote:
>
> > "John Larkin" <jjla...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote
> > >>
> > >>let us just thank the goddess he is leaveing
> > >
> > > leaveing?
> > >
> > > John
> >
> > Hey if Graham can say "Detoit"
>
> A typo silly. Cold fingers. I know damn well it's Detroit. George OTOH is
> recknowned for his mis-spelling.
Where you are merely 'Renowned' for your errors.
Michael A. Terrell
Eeyore wrote:
>
> Too late sadly. The damage is criminal. Tax cuts for the rich will enhance
> the economy ? Hahahahahahaa. Thatcher believed that too btw.
Just like you believe that you're smart?
> Incidentally, did you read that although GM has been bailed out for a bit, it
> relies on GMAC to provide finance for sales and that's in a pickle too. MORE
> bailouts ?
GMAC is General Motors Acceptance Corporation. It 'was' a division
of GM that processed loans. It is now approved to operate as a bank.
> Try getting a car loan !
GMAC apparently has 9.2 billion dollars available for loans to
qualified buyers.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aYWZmvL3oPmo&refer=home
Once again, you are out of touch with reality.
Michael A. Terrell
And no one is better than you at piling shit.
Michael A. Terrell
Yawn. Not as good as your police are at shooting innocent citizens.
Eeyore
o...@uakron.edu wrote:
> I'm not a crying heart liberal, but damn it, I hate the idea of my
> skills having to carry a full third or more of the population. That
> was in 95, and I hear its gotten worse. The rotten city district,
> itself, is on academic emergency status, and is poised for a state
> takeover.
>
> So wake up and smell the fake flowers in your mind Phil, as reality
> sucks.
>
> Steve Roberts
I read your reply with great interest Steve.
It so happens that I have a fair number of friends in the teaching
profession myself and what you say comes as no surprise to me (as does
Arny's 'wrong side of the tracks' comment).
It is as if there are 2 'classes', basically the rich and poor in
simplistic terms and we have something of that too here except we call
them working class and middle/upper class.
The working class tend to have little respect for education, don't buy
books, watch trash TV etc and are therefore locked in an uneducated or
uneducable ghetto of their own making. They also have by far the highest
crime rates both as offenders and victims of crime.
Thanks for telling the TRUTH.
TIME TO WAKE UP !
Graham
Eeyore
Sean Conolly wrote:
> <o...@uakron.edu> wrote
> >
> > I'm not a crying heart liberal, but damn it, I hate the idea of my
> > skills having to carry a full third or more of the population. That
> > was in 95, and I hear its gotten worse. The rotten city district,
> > itself, is on academic emergency status, and is poised for a state
> > takeover.
>
> You were teaching in the wrong district my friend. But maybe that's part of
> the point - education is failing not at a national or state level but at a
> local level. And guess which political party dominates the counties that
> have policies such as you've described?
It's NOT the wrong district (although the uneducated may group together) or
even especially politics, but the WRONG ATTIUDE (mainly by parents).
Teachers here even in the UK now fear 'little Johny's parents' coming in and
giving them a black eye for giving him a poor mark for trashy work. YES, it
happens !
Graham
Eeyore
krw wrote:
> sjconolly_98 @yaaho.com says...>
> >
> > You were teaching in the wrong district my friend. But maybe that's part of
> > the point - education is failing not at a national or state level but at a
> > local level. And guess which political party dominates the counties that
> > have policies such as you've described?
>
> ...and which one wants to take it national.
Happened in the UK srating in the 60s and 70s. They call it 'comprehensive
education'. All kids of all abilities a re thrown together and the idea was that
the bright would educate the thick by example, Hahahahahahahah ! It worked out
the other way in fact. At the time it was introduced, children of 10-12 were
intelligent enough to debate the issues themselves in kids' magazines. Now,
no-one gives a shit. They might as well call it 'comprehensive dumbing down'.
Graham
Eeyore
Phil Allison wrote:
> <o...@uakron.edu>
>
> ( snip log, meandering, self indulgent manic rant full of personal anecdotes
> in lieu of actual fact )
>
> > So wake up and smell the fake flowers in your mind Phil, as reality
> > sucks.
> >
> > Steve Roberts
>
> ** Hi Steve,
>
> care to explain how your passionate rant has ANY connection with anything I
> posted ??
Speals the guy who was kicked out of Uni for sucking his lecturer's cock.
Eeyore
Eeyore wrote:
> Sean Conolly wrote:
> > "Eeyore" <rabbitsfriend...@hotmail.com> wrote
> >
> > > America the Illiterate
> > >
> > > By Chris Hedges
> > >
> > > November 16, 2008 "Truthdig" -- - We live in two Americas. One America,
> > > now the minority, functions in a print-based, literate world. It can
> > > cope with complexity and has the intellectual tools to separate illusion
> > > from truth. The other America, which constitutes the majority, exists in
> > > a non-reality-based belief system. This America, dependent on skillfully
> > > manipulated images for information, has severed itself from the
> > > literate, print-based culture. It cannot differentiate between lies and
> > > truth. It is informed by simplistic, childish narratives and clichés. It
> > > is thrown into confusion by ambiguity, nuance and self-reflection. This
> > > divide, more than race, class or gender, more than rural or urban,
> > > believer or nonbeliever, red state or blue state, has split the country
> > > into radically distinct, unbridgeable and antagonistic entities.
> > >
> > > There are over 42 million American adults, 20 percent of whom hold high
> > > school diplomas, who cannot read, as well as the 50 million who read at
> > > a fourth- or fifth-grade level. Nearly a third of the nation's
> > > population is illiterate or barely literate. And their numbers are
> > > growing by an estimated 2 million a year. But even those who are
> > > supposedly literate retreat in huge numbers into this image-based
> > > existence. A third of high school graduates, along with 42 percent of
> > > college graduates, never read a book after they finish school. Eighty
> > > percent of the families in the United States last year did not buy a
> > > book...............
> > >
> > > Continues with very incisive comments.
> > >
> > > http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article21239.htm
> >
> > You've outdone yourself, Graham. You've been to the States once or twice I
> > think, do you honestly believe that fully 1/3 of the population is
> > functionally illiterate? Or maybe you just accepted everything in the
> > article on face value?
>
> I think it emphasises certain points that we might not normally consider
> worrying or concerning ourselves about. I don't have access to the data
> directly but I could certainly believe a good deal of it.
>
> It's going that way here too with political interference in education. The
> loonies want 50% of school leavers to go on to be grduates. Do they not
> realise this ensures only by definition that a graduate degree with be so
> devaluated that it will only be a guarantee of a roughly average intelligence
> !
>
> It HAS to STOP !
p.s. I just remembered, that my sister who is a pretty hi-tech exec in the
pharmaceuticals industry told me some years back that certain of the companies
she knows will not even bother interviewing graduates fron certain Unis. They
KNOW they'll be useless, so there's no point.
Some companies go as far as only taking applications from Oxford and Cambridge
(maybe London) graduates, so far have the standards fallen.
Graham
Arny Krueger
message news:495B5B42...@hotmail.com
> It is as if there are 2 'classes', basically the rich and
> poor in simplistic terms and we have something of that
> too here except we call them working class and
> middle/upper class.
Or non-working class.
The 1990 census for Detroit shows a population of 1,027,974
A 1992 report shows that the Number of Adult Welfare Recipients, was
107,869.
The number of working age adults was approximately 572,900, so 19% of all
working age adults were receiving welfare. Over 30% of the population is
children.
Note that 19% isn't *everybody*, but it is surely enough to create a
demographic shift all over the place. It's basically about how many spoilt
apples it takes to ruin the whole basket.
It doesn't take a lot of education to get pregnant and sign up for welfare.
It takes less education to get someone pregnant, because fathers don't have
to sign up for welfare.
It only takes 2-3 totally unmotivated students to ruin a classroom. Looks to
me like the average number in Detroit will be more like 5-10.
Welfare in Detroit is on its 4th generation. Remeber that when the next
generation starts with biological parents as young as 13, the number of
generations piles up pretty quickly.
> The working class tend to have little respect for
> education, don't buy books, watch trash TV etc and are
> therefore locked in an uneducated or uneducable ghetto of
> their own making.
IME the people who actually work are fairly literate.
> They also have by far the highest crime
> rates both as offenders and victims of crime.
One very serious problem in Detroit is non-enforcement of the law. If you
eliminated the killings that were essentially vigilante justice based on
non-performance by the Detroit Police department, Detroit's murder rate
would probably be far less spectacular.
Basically, the Detroit Police only have time for serious crime like murder.
A mere car theft or B&E hardly merits their serious attention. I think that
there is a connection between absence of effective rule of law and
illiteracy.
Eeyore
Eeyore wrote:
> Speals
Sorry, that was a hybrid of speaks and squeals. And the lecturer was MALE and it
happenened in an orchestra pit. God knows what the audience thought !
Basically P.A. sucks cock (literally) AND has some form of mental illness, the
precise analysis of which still eludes us (we've been trying hard for ages) but
Asperger's is a good bet on the data to date.
Graham
Eeyore
liquidator wrote:
> One reason kids don't learn is incompetent teachers.
That is at least in part (of the whole context) certainly VERY true and falls
into the 'political correctness' category.
Traditional methods of teaching, produced the likes of you and me who know out
stuff yet have been thrown out the window in favour of 'cossetting' children and
not 'having to make them work too hard'. Like reading maybe ?
Trust me, I know a LOT of teachers, including one who found it so depressing to
be told to 'dumb down' her job and just met targets that she eventually had a
nervous breakdown (for being a good teacher who knew her REAL job).
She now works part time at an auto distributor who VALUE her skills and she's
happy as Larry pretty much. NO 'targets' to reach, just do your job well. What
more could you ask ? She's even been praised by her new employer for bringing in
new thinking that has improved their business, productivity and customer
loyalty.
Graham
bill....@ieee.org
wrote:
But then again, you stil think that you can debate issues of public
interest. It is possilbe that the current system gives kids a more
realistic idea of the extent of their knowledge - it may look like
dumbing down to you, but since your approach to day's issues seesm to
strike you as intelligent, this isn't an opinion to be taken
seriously.
--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
bill....@ieee.org
wrote:
Steve Roberts isn't complaining about parents who cared enough about
little Johny's marks to come to the school and give the teacher a
black eye bexccause they didn't like the mark he'd given little Johny.
The parents he was worrying about couldn't have cared less how little
Johny did at school, and would vastly have preferred to see him
earning some money in some kind of occupation (such as drug-dealing).
I've never taught in a school myself, but enough friends have done it
over the years for me to have heard that message repeatedly.
--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
bill....@ieee.org
wrote:
> liquidator wrote:
> > One reason kids don't learn is incompetent teachers.
>
> That is at least in part (of the whole context) certainly VERY true and falls
> into the 'political correctness' category.
>
> stuff yet have been thrown out the window in favour of 'cossetting' children and
> not 'having to make them work too hard'. Like reading maybe ?
As an example of the virtues of traditional education, Eeyore really
doesn't cut the mustard. He really doesn't know his stuff in any area
outside electronics, and he doesn't seem to have a clue about how
little he knows. If he has every read anything beyond easily absorbed
propaganda, whe've yet to see any evidence of it.
> Trust me, I know a LOT of teachers, including one who found it so depressing to
> be told to 'dumb down' her job and just met targets that she eventually had a
> nervous breakdown (for being a good teacher who knew her REAL job).
If Eeyore knew her that well, she might have had a rather different
reason for the nervous breakdown.
>
> She now works part time at an auto distributor who VALUE her skills and she's
> happy as Larry pretty much. NO 'targets' to reach, just do your job well. What
> more could you ask ? She's even been praised by her new employer for bringing in
> new thinking that has improved their business, productivity and customer
> loyalty.
So she's not being stretched ...
--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
liquidator
"Arny Krueger" <ar...@hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:hrydndRldJU88MbU...@giganews.com...
divorce rate than whites...welfare did untold damage to the Black family.
Detroit isn't number one in murders anymore, last I heard St Louis...but New
Orleans has to be in the running too.
bill....@ieee.org
wrote:
> Eeyore wrote:
> > Sean Conolly wrote:
Snobbery is alive and well in the U.K. In fact, the main difference
between Oxford and Cambridge and the rest lies in the quality of the
undergraduates they attract. Oxford and Cambridge do have occasional
stars on their staff, but their teaching - overall - is pretty
ordinary, and they suffer badly from the idea that because they are
Oxford and Cambridge, their idieas are automatically good - in much
the same way the Eeyore believes that his IQ test score of 154
guarantees that his ideas about the world are all correct and
valuable.
I worked with some brilliant graduates from Oxford and Cambridge who
were actually as smart as their lecturers had told them they were, and
with a lot more who suffered from delusions of competence - they might
have had more realistic ideas about their skills if they'd been
trained in other instituitions.
For the record, the smartest of my colleagues was Scot with a Ph.D.
from Glagow, and the next best had done an electronics apprenticeship
at the Royal Radar Establishment at Malvern.
--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
Eeyore
bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Some companies go as far as only taking applications from Oxford and Cambridge
> > (maybe London) graduates, so far have the standards fallen.
>
> Snobbery is alive and well in the U.K
I think you mean some companies are smart enough not to allow the possibility of
employing 'dimbrains' like yourself.
Got a job yet btw ?
Graham
Eeyore
bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> I worked with some brilliant graduates from Oxford and Cambridge who
> were actually as smart as their lecturers had told them they were, and
> with a lot more who suffered from delusions of competence - they might
> have had more realistic ideas about their skills if they'd been
> trained in other instituitions.
>
> For the record, the smartest of my colleagues was Scot with a Ph.D.
> from Glagow, and the next best had done an electronics apprenticeship
> at the Royal Radar Establishment at Malvern.
One of the smartest guys I know, who is one of my referees ? A really nice guy to
know too.
http://www.ibd-uk.com/members/jones-martin.htm
Graham
John Larkin
Sounds like yet another reason UK industries are in decline. I'll take
talent from wherever it comes, including state schools, "junior
colleges" and sometimes no college at all.
Nobody can teach talent, and most anybody can teach the basic math and
physics that an engineer needs.
I have a friend who teaches at a junior college, which is a free
2-year school that can be a feeder into a state university. He sends
me talented kids as summer interns, and sometimes I wind up hiring
them after they graduate.
Snobbery is a stupid impediment to design. I was designing marine
automation systems and flight hardware for the Saturn moon rocket and
the C-5A when I was an undergrad at Tulane.
John
George's Pro Sound Company
. I was designing marine
> automation systems and flight hardware for the Saturn moon rocket and
> the C-5A when I was an undergrad at Tulane.
>
> John
>
shitty mi grade mixer's preamp?
please note sarcasm
george
John Larkin
The consequences are a bit greater. And I'd rather visit a jet engine
test facility, or the world's biggest laser, than spend the evening in
a loud, smokey disco.
Plus, we get awards.
ftp://jjlarkin.lmi.net/NIF3.jpg
But then maybe the disco guys get the occasional free beer.
John
George's Pro Sound Company
"John Larkin" <jjla...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in message
news:02enl45e4ejc27189...@4ax.com...
some of us sound guy even do "real" work
http://www.flickr.com/photos/28056464@N03/3073937228/sizes/o/
george
Richard The Dreaded Libertarian
so we all liked him a lot. ;-) He had just graduated from the U. of MN,
and got a job in some suburb of Detroit. His first semester, he flunked
every kid in the class, basically because they were all that dumb, and he
got fired. Apparently, in the Detroit area, they pencil-whipped their
graduation because everybody knew that they were all going into car
assembly line work, which a chimpanzee could do.
And the unionists and other socialists have been dumbing down the schools
ever since.
Thanks,
Rich
Richard The Dreaded Libertarian
One of my favorite teachers in HS (whose name I can't remember) told us
once about the joys of socialism - it was a scientifically controlled
experiment; the teacher said, "This quarter, everybody gets an A."
The screw-offs immediately did nothing. Within a few days or weeks, the
average students did nothing, and finally, the ace students decided
"what's the point?" and did nothing.
So nobody learned anything. You can understand why I say that socialism
always leads to failure.
When everybody's on the dole, and nobody's working, who pays the bills? Do
the socialists really believe that money just falls out of the sky?
Thanks,
Rich
Rupert
wrote:
> StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt wrote:
> > The word is "ROTE", you retarded twit!
>
> You see what I mean about falling literacy skills ?
>
> Graham
Auto correction, what can I say ;-) Guess I should turn off the
"correct as you type" feature. Apparently rote was not the 'puter's
dictionary...
Rupert
<Zarathus...@thusspoke.org> wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 11:18:27 -0800 (PST), Rupert
>
>
>
> <foodste...@linkline.com> wrote:
> >On Dec 30, 1:35 am, StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt
> ><Zarathus...@thusspoke.org> wrote:
> >> On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 16:52:29 -0800 (PST), Rupert
>
> >> <foodste...@linkline.com> wrote:
> >> >On Dec 29, 3:45 pm, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com>
> >> >wrote:
> >> >> America the Illiterate
>
> >> >> By Chris Hedges
> >> >> There are over 42 million American adults, 20 percent of whom hold high
> >> >> school diplomas, who cannot read, as well as the 50 million who read at
> >> >> a fourth- or fifth-grade level. Nearly a third of the nation’s
>
> >> >Unfortunately, it appears GW is part of this group regardless of the
> >> >accuracy of the figures.
>
>
> >> You're a goddamned retard. He was a jet pilot. Your pathetic brain
> >> couldn't handle the information level a pilot maintains.
>
> >life. Anyone can learn to operate a machine by wrote and still be
> >illiterate. Put that in YOUR pipe and smoke it.
>
> >Rupert
>
> The word is "ROTE", you retarded twit!
>
One spelling mistake due typing. Interesting you have such a high
opinion of someone that can't speak coherent sentences who happens to
be the current leader of the "free world". Says a lot about the people
the voted for him...
Rupert