Tech Magazines going electronic.
FrankW
Most of the trade magazines are dropping the
printed version for PDF files. I'm sorry but to
bring my PC to the can for reading is impractical.
Advertisers stop this nonsense. I will simply
stop reading them. I spend enough time in front
of a monitor. In this case technology sucks
ken....@gmail.com
Bill Chernoff
help functions in a program as a replacement for a user manual.
ken....@gmail.com
TOP
they said they would. And now they are defunct. With the web for
advertising I suspect the bucks for magazine inches has diminished.
The other thing about trade magazines that sucks is the
articles/infomercials that now proliferate. It is rare for a reviewer
to say it like it is anymore.
R Adsett
ken....@gmail.com says...
> Nice. Hint Hint. Good one.
>
Are you referring to anything in particular?
Robert
Barry Lennox
Well, I'm in two minds over it. Agree it's a PITA, however if it's
cheap enough, I can be bought. Circuit Cellar for $5 a year? Can't go
past that. I have even now assembled an old clunker PC in the barn
just for reading pdf's !
Barry Lennox
Muggs
<ken....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1127413497....@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Muggs
about PDM, FEA or CFD?
Muggs
"TOP" <kell...@cbd.net> wrote in message
news:1127416248.2...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Rich Grise
Take a crossword puzzle into the biffy with you.
Cheers!
Rich
TOP
trade rag articles on CFD while sitting in traffic. CFD will be a hot
item there in a day or so.
Ian Stirling
It depends.
I'm reading more on my (1.1Kg) laptop than I read dead-tree these
days. (200 books/year)
It gets propped up on its side on the bed, taken to the loo, ...
However, PDF is fundamentally the wrong format IMO.
I DO NOT WANT to have a simple electronic copy of the magazine.
I want one that I can adjust to have text size appropriate to where I
am, what the conditions are, ...
HTML.
John Woodgate
<1127431626.9...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>) about 'Tech
Magazines going electronic.', on Thu, 22 Sep 2005:
>Bet all the engineers fleeing Houston are busy reading their online
>trade rag articles on CFD while sitting in traffic. CFD will be a hot
>item there in a day or so.
>
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
If everything has been designed, a god designed evolution by natural selection.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk
Winfield Hill
>
> Wink, wink! Nod, nod! Know what I mean, Know what I mean!
>
>> Nice. Hint Hint. Good one.
Word to the wise, word to the wise.
--
Thanks,
- Win
Robert Latest
On 2005-09-22, Muggs <Mugg...@home.net> wrote:
> Wink, wink! Nod, nod! Know what I mean, Know what I mean!
A nod's as good as a wink to a blind bat.
robert
Robert Latest
Say no more!
robert
Dirk Bruere at Neopax
Agree.
Why is everyone in the industry so fixated on using PDFs?
--
Dirk
The Consensus:-
The political party for the new millenium
http://www.theconsensus.org
John Woodgate
<dirk....@gmail.com> wrote (in <3pl6cdF...@individual.net>) about
'Tech Magazines going electronic.', on Sat, 24 Sep 2005:
>Why is everyone in the industry so fixated on using PDFs?
It started out free;
The reader still is free;
Everybody can read it;
It works (enough).
Rich, Under the Affluence
They don't know any better?
Their employer footed the bill for Adobe?
They think it's kewl?
It's got scalable vector graphics and text search capability?
Who knows?
Thanks,
Rich
Michael A. Terrell
>
> Why is everyone in the industry so fixated on using PDFs?
1: Because it was the first cross platform format, and is so widely
used that people rarely have to install software to read a file.
2: Some IT departments will not allow you to install other software,
but Acrobat reader is commonly installed on networked computers.
3: Most people are familiar with PDF so they don't have to answer a
bunch of stupid questions, over and over.
--
?
Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
Dirk Bruere at Neopax
HTML
Robert
"Dirk Bruere at Neopax" <dirk....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:3pla55F...@individual.net...
> Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>
>> Dirk Bruere wrote:
>>
>>>Why is everyone in the industry so fixated on using PDFs?
>>
>>
>>
>> 1: Because it was the first cross platform format, and is so widely
>> used that people rarely have to install software to read a file.
>>
>> 2: Some IT departments will not allow you to install other software,
>> but Acrobat reader is commonly installed on networked computers.
>>
>> 3: Most people are familiar with PDF so they don't have to answer a
>> bunch of stupid questions, over and over.
>
> HTML
>
> --
> Dirk
>
perhaps other things.
I don't want that "flexibility" in a document I view. And I don't want to
keep dropping down to the source to find out what clever dicks are doing.
Robert
John Perry
> ...
>
> I don't like the tricks you can do in HTML with external references. And
> perhaps other things.
>
> I don't want that "flexibility" in a document I view. And I don't want to
> keep dropping down to the source to find out what clever dicks are doing.
>
But, Robert, Acrobat reader has had hyperlinks for several versions,
now. And with the hot new 7.0, it'll even call home without asking your
permission, or even telling you it's doing it!. At least with a modern
browser (not, of course, M$ style), you can prohibit html doing that.
John Perry
Mark Zenier
Dirk Bruere at Neopax <dirk....@gmail.com> wrote:
>Why is everyone in the industry so fixated on using PDFs?
To them it's just another form of paper. They're media/graphic arts/
print geeks and they want their beautiful layouts fixed so nobody
can screw with them. (And the reader is stuck reading the ads, too).
Mark Zenier mze...@eskimo.com
Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com)
Michael A. Terrell
>
> HTML
A very poor choice, unless you have the exact browser software type
and revision it was written for. How many people want to keep every
version of every browser at hand when you only need a couple revs of
PDF?
Michael A. Terrell
>
>
> But, Robert, Acrobat reader has had hyperlinks for several versions,
> now. And with the hot new 7.0, it'll even call home without asking your
> permission, or even telling you it's doing it!. At least with a modern
> browser (not, of course, M$ style), you can prohibit html doing that.
>
> John Perry
Any decent firewall will stop it from "calling home".
Dirk Bruere at Neopax
> Dirk Bruere wrote:
>
>>HTML
>
>
>
> A very poor choice, unless you have the exact browser software type
> and revision it was written for. How many people want to keep every
> version of every browser at hand when you only need a couple revs of
> PDF?
Couple of revs eh?
Use standard, well defined, HTML.
Strangely, I manage to write HTML that runs on all known browsers. But then,
it's not loaded with Flash, movies or sound. Just pics and text.
Pooh Bear
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:
> Dirk Bruere wrote:
> >
> > HTML
>
> A very poor choice, unless you have the exact browser software type
> and revision it was written for. How many people want to keep every
> version of every browser at hand when you only need a couple revs of
> PDF?
A couple of revs of PDF ?
Yeah it's gone downhill ! Adobe should be shot.
Graham
Pooh Bear
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:
Oh wow !
Wtf does it need to do that for anyway ? Just more dumb cutesy features.
Graham
dlharmon
I would agree that Acrobat reader gets worse with every new version.
I both create and view PDF files with no Adobe software. I use ghostscript
to create them and xpdf to view them. I only use PDF for schematics. You
can't beat it for that. For instance http://dlharmon.com/dspcard/dspcard.pdf
is 4 pages of detailed schematics and is only 106KB.
There seems to be a version of xpdf for M$ Windows:
http://gnuwin32.sourceforge.net/packages/xpdf.htm
Darrell Harmon
http://dlharmon.com
Kman
And the number, quality and diversity in topics have declined dramatically
over the years in magazines such as Machine Design and Design News. Long
time ago, the magazine Editors concentrated more on useful design content,
new technologies (detailed) than on advertisements. I started saving
interesting and informative magazine articles back in the late 70's and
onward. It is very obvious to those of us who have been around awhile that
the majority of these magazines have transformed into nothing more than
advertisement journals. I don't know how others use these magazines, but I
barely notice the advertisements and go straight to articles of interest if
you can find one.
Kman
"FrankW" <fw...@mxznorpak.ca> wrote in message
news:Z_udnbl2pOE...@magma.ca...
John Woodgate
<rabbitsfriend...@hotmail.com> wrote (in
<4336F08...@hotmail.com>) about 'Tech Magazines going electronic.',
on Sun, 25 Sep 2005:
>Wtf does it need to do that for anyway ? Just more dumb cutesy
>features.
>
Acrobat 6 calls home, too, for updates. Updating doesn't seem to work
all that well, but on balance I'd rather have the updates than the
security holes or the crashes.
TOP
into possesion of a large stack of engineering papers from the 60's.
Within the stack were a number of engineering reports written by a then
well known engineering consultancy. They worked out a very complex
problem on paper in a very few pages using geometry and calculus. This
was a 3D problem that would be very difficult to solve in FEA. I rather
doubt that many Machine Design or Design News readers would even want
to tackle one of these reports. Yet this was how things were done and
many engineers and designers in the 60's would have little trouble
understanding them. 3D graphics and user friendly FEA have isolated
practitioners from needing to understand how they are getting the
answers they are getting. Magazine writers cater to this new crowd of
engineering wanabes with articles on features and user interfaces
rather than looking at the meatier issues of CAD, FEA or engineering in
general.
I ran across a prime example the other day in a question posted on
Eng-Tips. Somebody wanted to know how their canned FEA package really
knew a cylinder was going to buckle. Good question, but should this guy
really be using the software to design things till he understands the
answer? Red is bad and blue is good, right?
The long and short is that the engineering rags have to be careful not
to overwhelm their readers with technical content just like the CAD and
FEA software vendors are careful to isolate their users from the
reality of what they are doing. We are all becoming like soccer moms
driving 3 ton SUVs while completely oblivious to the implications of
controlling such a large vehicle and smug in the assurance that
whatever they do with it they will survive unhurt.
Ian Stirling
> Dirk Bruere wrote:
>>
>> HTML
>
>
> A very poor choice, unless you have the exact browser software type
> and revision it was written for. How many people want to keep every
> version of every browser at hand when you only need a couple revs of
Well, the solution to that is simple.
Burn at the stake anyone who designs for only a couple of browsers,
rather than using simple standards compliant HTML.
Robert
"John Perry" <j...@no.spam> wrote in message
news:D5lZe.6427$GK2.4250@lakeread07...
I agree. But I like being able to hold one source accountable for such
behavior instead of anyone that's doing the HTML. I can (mostly) believe all
I'm going to get in PDFs is URL's and calling home to Adobe. Either of which
I can block by closing my firewall when I read the Doc. I'm more suspicious
of general HTML tricks. And the people who can create them.
Robert
Robert
"dlharmon" <dlha...@dlharmon.com> wrote in message
news:slrndjdsur....@localhost.localdomain...
[snip]
>> But, Robert, Acrobat reader has had hyperlinks for several versions,
>> now. And with the hot new 7.0, it'll even call home without asking your
>> permission, or even telling you it's doing it!. At least with a modern
>> browser (not, of course, M$ style), you can prohibit html doing that.
>>
>> John Perry
>
> I would agree that Acrobat reader gets worse with every new version.
>
> I both create and view PDF files with no Adobe software. I use ghostscript
> to create them and xpdf to view them. I only use PDF for schematics. You
> can't beat it for that. For instance
> http://dlharmon.com/dspcard/dspcard.pdf
> is 4 pages of detailed schematics and is only 106KB.
>
> There seems to be a version of xpdf for M$ Windows:
> http://gnuwin32.sourceforge.net/packages/xpdf.htm
>
> Darrell Harmon
> http://dlharmon.com
There is a small (less than 1MEG) fast free PDF reader alternative that IT
friends recommend. I haven't played with it much yet.
http://www.foxitsoftware.com/pdf/rd_intro.php
Robert
martin griffith
Very fast, neat, I'll play with it as well
martin
Michael A. Terrell
>
> Well, the solution to that is simple.
> Burn at the stake anyone who designs for only a couple of browsers,
> rather than using simple standards compliant HTML.
The HTML "Standards" keep creeping, so you have to keep modifying the
HTML page to keep them current.
Michael A. Terrell
>
> Couple of revs eh?
> Use standard, well defined, HTML.
> Strangely, I manage to write HTML that runs on all known browsers. But then,
> it's not loaded with Flash, movies or sound. Just pics and text.
That's fine, if you are only going to look at your own work.
Jerry Steiger
news:bxCZe.4029$QE1...@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> I don't know how others use these
> magazines, but I barely notice the advertisements and go straight to
> articles of interest if you can find one.
That's interesting, Ken. We re polar opposites. I barely notice the articles
in many of my engineering magazines and focus on the ads!
On the other hand, I really do enjoy a good article. When I can find one,
that is.
Jerry Steiger
Tripod Data Systems
"take the garbage out, dear"
John Perry
> "John Perry" <j...@no.spam> wrote in message
> news:D5lZe.6427$GK2.4250@lakeread07...
>
>>
>>And with the hot new 7.0, it'll even call home without asking your
>>permission, or even telling you it's doing it!. At least with a modern
>>browser (not, of course, M$ style), you can prohibit html doing that.
>>
>
> behavior instead of anyone that's doing the HTML. I can (mostly) believe all
> I'm going to get in PDFs is URL's and calling home to Adobe. Either of which
> I can block by closing my firewall when I read the Doc. I'm more suspicious
> of general HTML tricks. And the people who can create them.
Uh, no, Robert, Acrobat Reader calls home to the author of the page.
And as I said, any modern browser allows you to defeat html (actually,
javascript) call-home. But Adobe doesn't give the user that option.
With Reader you _have_ to use low-level tricks discovered by
sophisticated users, or a firewall (which, I emphasize, is a Good Idea).
Much worse than html.
John Perry
Robert
"John Perry" <j...@no.spam> wrote in message
Are you talking about embedding URLs in the PDF document to call home to the
Author? Or that Adobe gives that capability to the author of a page? If so I
didn't know about the latter. Either way I can shut my firewall while
reading documents I don't trust. I worry about other capabilities of HTML.
It seems like part of the way towards a programming language and I don't
know how much of the way it really is.
Robert
Kman
"TOP" <kell...@cbd.net> wrote in message
news:1127676349....@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>I have a hypothesis about this decline in content. Last week I came
> into possesion of a large stack of engineering papers from the 60's.
> Within the stack were a number of engineering reports written by a then
> well known engineering consultancy. They worked out a very complex
> problem on paper in a very few pages using geometry and calculus. This
> was a 3D problem that would be very difficult to solve in FEA. I rather
> doubt that many Machine Design or Design News readers would even want
> to tackle one of these reports.
I wouldn't understand some of these in depth reports myself. But it is
always interesting and challenging to study such articles to understand out
how the other half sees the world. I miss some of the more practical
articles on subjects like how to determine friction force of
pneumatic-hydraulic seals, sizing servo drives, sizing electric motors for
variable power demands, coupler torsional stiffness verses servo resolution,
best practices for applying fasteners in different design applications,
sizing clutches and brakes, sizing cooling systems for electrical cabinets,
sizing pneumatic systems to achieve desired response time of actuators,
sizing and principles of designing with U-Joints, payback and net present
value, how to determine and derive the correct geometry for locating pins,
etc....
All of this information can be found in some obscure engineering reference
or manufacturer's engineering information section. However, the trade
magazines always brought these interesting topics to the reader on a regular
basis. Of course, engineers also used to have more time to kick back and
learn about these topics on the companies dime. Also, pretty much gone
Yet this was how things were done and
> many engineers and designers in the 60's would have little trouble
> understanding them. 3D graphics and user friendly FEA have isolated
> practitioners from needing to understand how they are getting the
> answers they are getting. Magazine writers cater to this new crowd of
> engineering wanabes with articles on features and user interfaces
> rather than looking at the meatier issues of CAD, FEA or engineering in
> general.
The underlying principles and mathematics necessary to derive the solutions
are buried in user friendly software and overly simplified for the masses.
However, I do like spell check ;>)
Someone in our organization was recently broadcasting how they could
instantly save the company barrels of money by replacing all the company
desktop systems with laptops. He authoritively pronounced the return on
investment would be less than one year based upon energy savings alone.
When asked if he took into account corporate tax rate, depreciation value,
salvage value, he looked puzzled and asked how this information was
relevant. Going back to your hypothesis, simple is dangerous or even fatal
in the hands of wannabes who don't understand the underlying principles.
>
> I ran across a prime example the other day in a question posted on
> Eng-Tips. Somebody wanted to know how their canned FEA package really
> knew a cylinder was going to buckle. Good question, but should this guy
> really be using the software to design things till he understands the
> answer? Red is bad and blue is good, right?
All shades of blue means not to worry, right :-)
> The long and short is that the engineering rags have to be careful not
> to overwhelm their readers with technical content just like the CAD and
> FEA software vendors are careful to isolate their users from the
> reality of what they are doing. We are all becoming like soccer moms
> driving 3 ton SUVs while completely oblivious to the implications of
> controlling such a large vehicle and smug in the assurance that
> whatever they do with it they will survive unhurt.
Sometimes it seems like too many companies prefer soccer mom's driving SUV's
Kman
Terry Pinnell
Looks good. But how do I get it to open PDFs in my FF browser please?
--
Terry Pinnell
Hobbyist, West Sussex, UK
Dirk Bruere at Neopax
I loaded it.
However (and it may be coincidence) the next time I started up the computer I
found all my nVidia drivers wiped out.
John Perry
> ...
> Are you talking about embedding URLs in the PDF document to call home to the
> Author? Or that Adobe gives that capability to the author of a page?
Both, if I understand your first question.
If so I
> didn't know about the latter. Either way I can shut my firewall while
> reading documents I don't trust.
As you can with html. But with a modern browser you don't need to.
I worry about other capabilities of HTML.
> It seems like part of the way towards a programming language and I don't
> know how much of the way it really is.
>
Html is a text markup language, and that's it. Period. It's the other
things, javascript, java, visual basic, etc, that do the damage if you
let them. Adobe reader now supports javascript, just like html. But
Adobe Reader doesn't let you turn off javascript. Modern web browsers do.
http://lwn.net/Articles/129729/
John Perry
Jerry Steiger
> The underlying principles and mathematics necessary to derive the
> solutions are buried in user friendly software and overly simplified for
> the masses.
>
> However, I do like spell check ;>)
So do I, but the same principles hold there as well. Don't you love seeing
the misspelled words where the writer didn't know that the spell checker
gave him the write spelling for the wrong word?
Terry Pinnell
>Terry Pinnell wrote:
>> martin griffith <marting...@XXyahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Sun, 25 Sep 2005 21:30:59 GMT, in sci.electronics.design "Robert"
>>><Rob...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>There is a small (less than 1MEG) fast free PDF reader alternative that IT
>>>>friends recommend. I haven't played with it much yet.
>>>>
>>>>http://www.foxitsoftware.com/pdf/rd_intro.php
>>>>
>>>>Robert
>>>>
>>>
>>>Very fast, neat, I'll play with it as well
>>>
>>>martin
>>
>>
>> Looks good. But how do I get it to open PDFs in my FF browser please?
>
>I loaded it.
>However (and it may be coincidence) the next time I started up the computer I
>found all my nVidia drivers wiped out.
I sure hope it *was* a coincidence, as I too have nVidia drivers.
Dirk Bruere at Neopax
Some other weird shit seems to be happening.
I hope it hasn't screwed the registry.
--
Kman
Microsoft would really help me out if they would add a "gray cell" (i.e. old
fart) spell checker.
Kman
"Jerry Steiger" <jer...@tdsway.garbage.com> wrote in message
news:3pte77F...@individual.net...
Michael A. Terrell
>
> Looks good. But how do I get it to open PDFs in my FF browser please?
Doesn't the Acrobat browser plug in work for you?
Kman
When they mail out those annoying little packets of advertisement cards you
might guess where I archive them.
Kman
"Jerry Steiger" <jer...@tdsway.garbage.com> wrote in message
news:3pr1lkF...@individual.net...
Paul Burke
>>>><Rob...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>There is a small (less than 1MEG) fast free PDF reader alternative that IT
>>>>>friends recommend. I haven't played with it much yet.
>>>>>
>>>>>http://www.foxitsoftware.com/pdf/rd_intro.php
I've been using it for a while, because Adobe is so bad. It has definite
faults though: its display quality is poor, and it has real problems
sizing and printing pages that don't match the format of the original.
It also crashes fairly regularly when it prints.
Paul Burke
Terry Pinnell
Terry Pinnell
>Terry Pinnell wrote:
>>
>> Looks good. But how do I get it to open PDFs in my FF browser please?
>
>
> Doesn't the Acrobat browser plug in work for you?
Yes, but the point was to replace that with Foxit.
Terry Pinnell
Elsewhere, I've just been pointed to this explanation:
http://www.lifehacker.com/software/productivity/download-of-the-day-foxit-pdf-reader-109741.php
Seems Foxit requires me to uninstall Adobe Acrobat before I can get
Foxit to integrate with FF (and then it opens PDFs only in a new
window, rather than a new tab).
JeffM
If you qualify that as **multi-page schematics**, a reluctant Yes.
A single-page PNG would just get bigger with the PDF wrapper/
...then there's the
**requires a reader that supports a proprietary format** issue.
The woes that folks are describing with Adobe's reader
and with the Foxit reader are indicitave of the gotchas in that.
Joel Kolstad
news:1127947481.2...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> **requires a reader that supports a proprietary format** issue.
> The woes that folks are describing with Adobe's reader
> and with the Foxit reader are indicitave of the gotchas in that.
Vaguely related: The state of Massachusetts is contemplating dumping
Microsoft Office unless it starts natively supporting their two selected
document formats: PDF and OpenDocument. The later I can see, but my
impression was that although lower versions of PDF were public standards that
anyone was free to use, the later versions are proprietary to Adobe and they
don't hand out the full document description under the guise of needing to
maintain 'security by obscurity' for their digital rights management
technology... in which case Adobe and PDF really don't seem that much better
than Word. Anyone know for certain?
JeffM
>>The woes that folks are describing with Adobe's reader
>>and with the Foxit reader are indicitave of the gotchas in that.
>
>Vaguely related:
>The state of Massachusetts is contemplating dumping Microsoft Office
>unless it starts natively supporting
>their two selected document formats: PDF and OpenDocument.
>
Heh. Interesting you should mention that:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.cad/browse_frm/thread/c485ee90ddc3561d/c966aceed058e674
.
.
>The later I can see, but my impression was that
>although lower versions of PDF were public standards
>that anyone was free to use,
>the later versions are proprietary to Adobe
>and they don't hand out the full document description
>under the guise of needing to maintain 'security by obscurity'
>for their digital rights management technology...
>
All the imperfect implementations of 3rd-party readers
would seem to bear that out.
.
.
>in which case Adobe and PDF
>really don't seem that much better than Word.
>Anyone know for certain?
>
(or "open" or "free"):
http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:X7Xt4_xDp7kJ:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portable_Document_Format+pdf-is-an-open-standard+royalty-free+Free-readers-for-many-platforms