new HP35
John Larkin
awful. It's so overloaded with features that you'll never use that the
basic functions are obscured. Not recommended.
Somebody should make a true HP35 clone. They'd sell jillions of them.
John
Joel Koltner
news:vh38h55s385pvntn8...@4ax.com...
> The new HP35 is a sad parody of the beautiful original. The display is
> awful. It's so overloaded with features that you'll never use that the
> basic functions are obscured. Not recommended.
I think it's mainly overloaded with *memory* you'll never use. And poor
implementations of some features, such as how they handle bin/hex/oct/dec --
clearly implemented by someone who wasn't actually familiar with how people
use such a feature.
BTW, the 35s is also filled with bugs. Most are minor, but some are not.
See: http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/articles.cgi?read=735 --
I found #15, which returns absolutely incorrect numerical results, and #16 is
pretty bad in that it completely locks up the machine, requiring a hard reset
that will erase all of memory to continue.
HP has never acknowledged -- much less fixed -- any of these problems. Not at
all like the original HP 35:
"The HP-35 had numerical algorithms that exceeded the precision of most
mainframe computers at the time. During development, Dave Cochran, who was in
charge of the algorithms, tried to use a Burroughs B5500 to validate the
results of the HP-35 but instead found too little precision in the former to
continue. IBM mainframes also didn't measure up. This forced time-consuming
manual comparisons of results to mathematical tables. A few bugs got through
this process. For example: 2.02 ln ex resulted in 2 rather than 2.02. When the
bug was discovered, HP had already sold 25,000 units which was a huge volume
for the company. In a meeting, Dave Packard asked what they were going to do
about the units already in the field and someone in the crowd said "Don't
tell?" At this Packard's pencil snapped and he said: "Who said that? We're
going to tell everyone and offer them, a replacement. It would be better to
never make a dime of profit than to have a product out there with a problem".
It turns out that less than a quarter of the units were returned. Most people
preferred to keep their buggy calculator and the notice from HP offering the
replacement."
The HP 35s probably would have been better if the calculator division had
ended up with test & measurement guys (Agilent), but who knows? A lot of the
problem is what you've said yourself -- "the culture of 'all software has
bugs' is self-fulfilling."
---Joel
Tim Wescott
This is one machine that has the right customer base for an open-source
hardware and software solution.
Done right you could even have room for various vendors to provide
hardware at various price/performance/quality/looks levels. Just make
sure that the code is downloadable -- then let the fur fly.
RST Engineering
...cost me a month's pay as a brand new engineer back in '68 and worth
every dime of it. I could do in an hour what it took me a day to do
with log and trig tables.
Jim
Phil Allison
"RST Engineering"
>
> ...cost me a month's pay as a brand new engineer back in '68 and worth
> every dime of it.
** Errr - the first HP35 was not available until 1972.
> I could do in an hour what it took me a day to do
> with log and trig tables.
** Should have tried using a well lubricated slide rule.
.... Phil
Joerg
They should offer the HP11C again. Best invention since pivot
irrigation. A while ago Costco sold HP12C re-makes as a HP anniversary
edition but those are more for the MBA types.
--
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com/
"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.
Joel Koltner
news:7nj115F...@mid.individual.net...
> They should offer the HP11C again. Best invention since pivot irrigation. A
> while ago Costco sold HP12C re-makes as a HP anniversary edition but those
> are more for the MBA types.
The latest HP 12Cs actually run a 32-bit ARM CPU that emulates the old 4-bit
Saturn CPU used in the original calculator (and no longer available in
silicon). Amazing!
John Fields
wrote:
>John Larkin wrote:
>> The new HP35 is a sad parody of the beautiful original. The display is
>> awful. It's so overloaded with features that you'll never use that the
>> basic functions are obscured. Not recommended.
>>
>> Somebody should make a true HP35 clone. They'd sell jillions of them.
>>
>
>They should offer the HP11C again. Best invention since pivot
>irrigation. A while ago Costco sold HP12C re-makes as a HP anniversary
>edition but those are more for the MBA types.
---
I've got an HP15C that I bought about 30 years ago, use it every day,
and I'm on my third set of battery cells.
Amazing, beautiful piece of work.
JF
Paul Hovnanian P.E.
>
> "RST Engineering"
>
> >
> > ...cost me a month's pay as a brand new engineer back in '68 and worth
> > every dime of it.
>
> ** Errr - the first HP35 was not available until 1972.
>
> > I could do in an hour what it took me a day to do
> > with log and trig tables.
Good thing. He did have that 4 year backlog of work ('68-'72) to catch
up with while waiting for it. ;-)
--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:Pa...@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
Fast wine, loose cars, old women.
krw
<jjla...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
>The new HP35 is a sad parody of the beautiful original. The display is
>awful. It's so overloaded with features that you'll never use that the
>basic functions are obscured. Not recommended.
I agree with everything other than "not recommended". It's no match
for the original (or even the superior HP45) but it's still the best
calculator out there.
>Somebody should make a true HP35 clone. They'd sell jillions of them.
The firmware is available.
krw
A month's pay in '68? It came out in '72. Even in '68 $400/month was
pretty crappy pay.
My HP45 did cost me more than a month's pay (I was in college).
Actually, I used a student loan to buy it.
Joerg
But we'll have to see if they can match the 10+ year battery runtime of
their grandpa.
David L. Jones
> John Larkin wrote:
>> The new HP35 is a sad parody of the beautiful original. The display
>> is awful. It's so overloaded with features that you'll never use
>> that the basic functions are obscured. Not recommended.
>>
>> Somebody should make a true HP35 clone. They'd sell jillions of them.
>>
>
> They should offer the HP11C again. Best invention since pivot
> irrigation. A while ago Costco sold HP12C re-makes as a HP anniversary
> edition but those are more for the MBA types.
It's odds-on HP will re-release the 15C.
They have the hardware platform in the current 12C model with the ARM
processor which runs a simulation of the original 12C ROM code, and the LCD
is the same as the 12C, so all they need do is drop in the 15C (or 11C) ROM
code, add new key legends, and print a new manual. Hey presto - a new 15C,
or 11C, or 16C.
In fact a working 15C prototype has been shown at a conference.
HP have also done targeted market research into re-introduction of classic
calcs some time ago, and it was fairly obvious the research was biased
toward a (Voyager) 15C/11C answer.
It has been much discussed over at the MOHPC forum for quite some time.
Dave.
--
================================================
Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog & Podcast:
http://www.eevblog.com
David L. Jones
> Joel Koltner wrote:
>> "Joerg" <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:7nj115F...@mid.individual.net...
>>> They should offer the HP11C again. Best invention since pivot
>>> irrigation. A while ago Costco sold HP12C re-makes as a HP
>>> anniversary edition but those are more for the MBA types.
>>
>> The latest HP 12Cs actually run a 32-bit ARM CPU that emulates the
>> old 4-bit Saturn CPU used in the original calculator (and no longer
>> available in silicon). Amazing!
>>
>
> But we'll have to see if they can match the 10+ year battery runtime
> of their grandpa.
I hope they don't screw it like they did with the new 20B ARM platform by
running it at full speed for all calculations:
http://www.eevblog.com/2009/04/16/eevblog-4-low-power-calculator-design-and-fpgas/
HP have responded and said they'll be more conscious of it next time, so
we'll see...
My uWatch does calculations splendidly at only 32KHz.
Joel Koltner
news:Bm%Qm.72221$W77....@newsfe11.iad...
> http://www.eevblog.com/2009/04/16/eevblog-4-low-power-calculator-design-and-fpgas/
> HP have responded and said they'll be more conscious of it next time, so
> we'll see...
Good point in your video there, Dave, and I expect you're correct that the
internal resistance of the battery wasn't considered. I'm thinking that an
L-C filter could "fix" a lot of this, though -- most calcuations would be fast
enough that the bulk of the power would come from the capacitor, and the the
battery would recharge the cap at a rate throttled by the inductor. A big
enough/low enough loss inductor might not be practical, so perhaps some
micropower op-amp design that current limits the battery output until the cap
voltages starts to drop to precarious levles?
---Joel
Joel Koltner
in the CPU so 1.7mW being dissipated in the battery's internal resistance is
still under 2% of the total power consumption... perhaps not worth worrying
about!
BobW
"John Larkin" <jjla...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in message
news:vh38h55s385pvntn8...@4ax.com...
If my 35 wasn't so valuable and hard-to-replace, I'd use it every day.
The 35S isn't a bad all-around calculator, and if you love RPN (who
doesn't?) then it's the best "simple" scientific contemporary calc (imho).
However, I still prefer using my 32SII. I'm glad I've got two of them.
Bob
--
== All google group posts are automatically deleted due to spam ==
John Larkin
>On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 10:28:53 -0800, John Larkin
><jjla...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
>
>>The new HP35 is a sad parody of the beautiful original. The display is
>>awful. It's so overloaded with features that you'll never use that the
>>basic functions are obscured. Not recommended.
>
>I agree with everything other than "not recommended". It's no match
>for the original (or even the superior HP45) but it's still the best
>calculator out there.
The best calculators are older HPs, from ebay.
John
David L. Jones
The CPU is only taking around 45mW @ 30MHz (3V x 15mA) (@0.5mA/MHz)
So the IR loss is closer to 4%. But that's best case, and that will get
worse with battery aging and brand of battery.
Some can argue that it's not much, but good calculator design is all about
power efficiency and optimal design.
krw
<jjla...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
>On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 19:23:59 -0600, krw <k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 10:28:53 -0800, John Larkin
>><jjla...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
>>
>>>The new HP35 is a sad parody of the beautiful original. The display is
>>>awful. It's so overloaded with features that you'll never use that the
>>>basic functions are obscured. Not recommended.
>>
>>I agree with everything other than "not recommended". It's no match
>>for the original (or even the superior HP45) but it's still the best
>>calculator out there.
>
>The best calculators are older HPs, from ebay.
Most of them are getting pretty flaky, after 35 years. I'd use my
HP45 but I can't keep it powered on. Crapping out in the middle of a
calculation isn't nice.
ChrisQ
I still have the HP25c bought at Sears NY in 1977 and still works
flawlessly, even though I had to replace. the cells a couple of times
over the years. Iirc, it cost me $187.00 at the time, when they cost
around ukp 230 in the uk, a significant saving. Iirc, I spent the whole
evening in the hotel room playing moon lander. A misspent youth ?.
Also, an HP16C programmer (1984), an HP29C from a boot sale and an
original HP35 with psu, all still working fine.
Couldn't really justify buying any more. They never wear out :-)...
Regards,
Chris
ChrisQ
>
> But we'll have to see if they can match the 10+ year battery runtime of
> their grandpa.
>
My HP16C, bought in 1984, only had it's silver button cells replaced in
2002. To be honest, it wasn't used every day, but the battery life is
amazing...
Regards,
Chris
Joerg
In a calculator? Ouch, ouch ...
I can't see David's posts since he is using Google. Personally, I think
a pocket calculator that devours batteries is not very useful. This was
the beauty of the old HPs, you could plop in three new coin cells and
not worry about a thing for the next 5-10 years.
Joel Koltner
> Joel Koltner wrote:
>> Although, come to think of it, even at 30mA you're dissipating upwards of
>> 90mW in the CPU so 1.7mW being dissipated in the battery's internal
>> resistance is still under 2% of the total power consumption... perhaps not
>> worth worrying about!
> In a calculator? Ouch, ouch ...
It's actually worse... Dave pointed out my calculation was wrong (I was
thinking "30mA" when it's really "30MHz at 0.5mA/MHz"), so power CPU power
consumption is 45mW, and hence ~4% power is wasted.
But note that this waste of 4% of the power is only when the calculator kicks
into "turbo mode" to run a calcuation; when it's just sitting there idle
waiting for keypresses, it's close to zero.
Here's his blog entry that discussed the problem initially:
http://www.eevblog.com/2009/04/16/eevblog-4-low-power-calculator-design-and-fpgas/ .
> I can't see David's posts since he is using Google.
He's definitely worth whitelisting!
> Personally, I think a pocket calculator that devours batteries is not very
> useful.
The HP 50g is far worse, where some "engineer" took the HP 48 design that used
3 "AA" sells and a switching regulator and designed to save a couple quarters
and went to 4 "AA" batteries and a linear regulator. :-(
---Joel
Joerg
> "Joerg" <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> news:7nktmkF...@mid.individual.net...
>> Joel Koltner wrote:
>>> Although, come to think of it, even at 30mA you're dissipating upwards of
>>> 90mW in the CPU so 1.7mW being dissipated in the battery's internal
>>> resistance is still under 2% of the total power consumption... perhaps not
>>> worth worrying about!
>> In a calculator? Ouch, ouch ...
>
> It's actually worse... Dave pointed out my calculation was wrong (I was
> thinking "30mA" when it's really "30MHz at 0.5mA/MHz"), so power CPU power
> consumption is 45mW, and hence ~4% power is wasted.
>
> But note that this waste of 4% of the power is only when the calculator kicks
> into "turbo mode" to run a calcuation; when it's just sitting there idle
> waiting for keypresses, it's close to zero.
>
> Here's his blog entry that discussed the problem initially:
> http://www.eevblog.com/2009/04/16/eevblog-4-low-power-calculator-design-and-fpgas/ .
>
>> I can't see David's posts since he is using Google.
>
> He's definitely worth whitelisting!
>
I know, but I can't. Yeah, Jim will now say I should use Agent instead
but I don't want to change newsreaders again.
>> Personally, I think a pocket calculator that devours batteries is not very
>> useful.
>
> The HP 50g is far worse, where some "engineer" took the HP 48 design that used
> 3 "AA" sells and a switching regulator and designed to save a couple quarters
> and went to 4 "AA" batteries and a linear regulator. :-(
>
I love the HP11C. It's all I really need and it was designed by the old
crew that knew how to do very low power designs. I wish they would just
take the old processor masks and do a few more runs, then sell an
anniversary edition. I don't think it'll be a problem to extract
$50-$100 for it from the wallets of people like me.
Jim Thompson
wrote:
>Joel Koltner wrote:
>> "Joerg" <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:7nktmkF...@mid.individual.net...
[snip]
>>> I can't see David's posts since he is using Google.
>>
>> He's definitely worth whitelisting!
>>
>
>I know, but I can't. Yeah, Jim will now say I should use Agent instead
>but I don't want to change newsreaders again.
>
[snip]
Whine! Whine! Whine! Whine!
Time for you to join the 21st Century.
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
Joerg
> On Tue, 01 Dec 2009 09:41:56 -0800, Joerg <inv...@invalid.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> Joel Koltner wrote:
>>> "Joerg" <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:7nktmkF...@mid.individual.net...
> [snip]
>>>> I can't see David's posts since he is using Google.
>>> He's definitely worth whitelisting!
>>>
>> I know, but I can't. Yeah, Jim will now say I should use Agent instead
>> but I don't want to change newsreaders again.
>>
> [snip]
>
> Whine! Whine! Whine! Whine!
>
> Time for you to join the 21st Century.
>
Wait, isn't Agent from the last century and kind of fading a bit? Please
elucidate.
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
I always wanted one of those but could never afford it.
Got a Sinclair Scientific instead.
http://www.thimet.de/CalcCollection/Calculators/Sinclair-Scientific/SinclairScientific-M.JPG
Like all Sinclair stuff, good looking on the outside and shit inside.
--
Dirk
http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/onetribe - Occult Talk Show
qrk
<jjla...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
>The new HP35 is a sad parody of the beautiful original. The display is
>awful. It's so overloaded with features that you'll never use that the
>basic functions are obscured. Not recommended.
>
>Somebody should make a true HP35 clone. They'd sell jillions of them.
>
>John
HP32S II would be a more useful calculator.
David L. Jones
> Joel Koltner wrote:
>> Although, come to think of it, even at 30mA you're dissipating
>> upwards of 90mW in the CPU so 1.7mW being dissipated in the
>> battery's internal resistance is still under 2% of the total power
>> consumption... perhaps not worth worrying about!
>>
>
> In a calculator? Ouch, ouch ...
>
> I can't see David's posts since he is using Google.
I haven't posted used Google Groups for a long time. I do however use gmail
for my usenet email address (which is valid).
If you are filtering out posters because they use gmail for email then
that's the wrong approach.
Dave.
--
---------------------------------------------
David L. Jones
> Joerg wrote:
>> Joel Koltner wrote:
>>> Although, come to think of it, even at 30mA you're dissipating
>>> upwards of 90mW in the CPU so 1.7mW being dissipated in the
>>> battery's internal resistance is still under 2% of the total power
>>> consumption... perhaps not worth worrying about!
>>>
>>
>> In a calculator? Ouch, ouch ...
>>
>> I can't see David's posts since he is using Google.
>
> I haven't posted used Google Groups for a long time. I do however use
> gmail for my usenet email address (which is valid).
> If you are filtering out posters because they use gmail for email then
> that's the wrong approach.
Oops, of course Joerg won't be able to read this because I'm being filtered
for using gmail.
If someone with a "real" email address can bump it so he can see it that
would be appreciated!
BTW, I post using Teranews, I'm not sure if that's "trendy" and acceptable
enough this week?, or is that a spammer haven too?...
I could of course post using any of my other email addresses, but that would
ruin my archive history, I've been posting using the same gmail address for
over 5 years now. Can't lose that covered 3 highest poster position on
aus.electronics now can I! :->
Joel Koltner
news:ff0bh5lh18l24hdag...@4ax.com...
> HP32S II would be a more useful calculator.
It's certainly better designed, but it's lacking in easy-to-use complex number
handling.
I'm amazed that so many calculators today (Casio and Sharp come to mind) have
fundamentally separate "modes" for complex number calculations, where you
often lose out on the ability to use many scientific functions, memories, etc.
I mean, how is it that these guys can write up all the code to, e.g., display
"textbook style" formulae yet they can't implement the complex version of the
transcendental functions?
HP "got it right" in that there's only ever "one mode" (well, at least until
they had the switch-hitting RPN/algebra calculators), and the user just had to
know to use "CPLX+", "CPLX-", etc. when they didn't yet have enough memory (or
whatever) for full complex number support.
---Joel
Jim Thompson
"Bumped" for Joerg's benefit.
(Dave, I block all that stuff that Joerg does, _except_ I know how to
use a white-list, which you are on ;-)
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
You can never be too prepared for the REPRESSION!
Tim Williams
Or at least use a newsreader with real features, like Outlook Express. I've
got filters here that do a fine job. Try it some day, it works, despite
what popular opinion might believe.
Tim
--
Deep Friar: a very philosophical monk.
Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms
"David L. Jones" <alt...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:TagRm.35706$cX4....@newsfe10.iad...
Reinhard Zwirner
>
> David L. Jones wrote:
> > Joerg wrote:
> >> Joel Koltner wrote:
> >>> Although, come to think of it, even at 30mA you're dissipating
> >>> upwards of 90mW in the CPU so 1.7mW being dissipated in the
> >>> battery's internal resistance is still under 2% of the total power
> >>> consumption... perhaps not worth worrying about!
> >>>
> >>
> >> In a calculator? Ouch, ouch ...
> >>
> >> I can't see David's posts since he is using Google.
> >
> > I haven't posted used Google Groups for a long time. I do however use
> > gmail for my usenet email address (which is valid).
> > If you are filtering out posters because they use gmail for email then
> > that's the wrong approach.
>
> Oops, of course Joerg won't be able to read this because I'm being filtered
> for using gmail.
> If someone with a "real" email address can bump it so he can see it that
> would be appreciated!
> BTW, I post using Teranews, I'm not sure if that's "trendy" and acceptable
> enough this week?, or is that a spammer haven too?...
>
> I could of course post using any of my other email addresses, but that would
> ruin my archive history, I've been posting using the same gmail address for
> over 5 years now. Can't lose that covered 3 highest poster position on
> aus.electronics now can I! :->
Hi Dave
I'm not a native speaker: am I nevertheless right when supposing
that this answer is kind of bumping your post?
Thanks for your great eevblog - I'm always waiting anxiously for
the next to come ;-)
Greetings from Germany
Reinhard
Tim Williams
news:TegRm.311040$Jp1.1...@en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com...
> the user just had to know to use "CPLX+", "CPLX-", etc. when they didn't
> yet have enough memory
> (or whatever) for full complex number support.
Huh.. my Canon F-502 has a CPLX button, but it doesn't seem to do
anything... I don't see an "i" button, and sqrt(-1) is still just as "E" as
ever..
Joerg
> On Wed, 2 Dec 2009 08:48:36 +1100, "David L. Jones"
> <alt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> David L. Jones wrote:
>>> Joerg wrote:
>>>> Joel Koltner wrote:
>>>>> Although, come to think of it, even at 30mA you're dissipating
>>>>> upwards of 90mW in the CPU so 1.7mW being dissipated in the
>>>>> battery's internal resistance is still under 2% of the total power
>>>>> consumption... perhaps not worth worrying about!
>>>>>
>>>> In a calculator? Ouch, ouch ...
>>>>
>>>> I can't see David's posts since he is using Google.
>>> I haven't posted used Google Groups for a long time. I do however use
>>> gmail for my usenet email address (which is valid).
>>> If you are filtering out posters because they use gmail for email then
>>> that's the wrong approach.
Well, right now I don't have another option but hopefully I'll figure
out something that works better. Problem is that google floods servers
with spam and they seem unwilling to do anything about it. I wrote to
them but they didn't even bother to answer.
I'll looks for something that filters only when messages actually comes
from a google server and not filter it when it comes from teranews like
your posts.
>> Oops, of course Joerg won't be able to read this because I'm being filtered
>> for using gmail.
>> If someone with a "real" email address can bump it so he can see it that
>> would be appreciated!
>> BTW, I post using Teranews, I'm not sure if that's "trendy" and acceptable
>> enough this week?, or is that a spammer haven too?...
>>
AFAICT the problem domain is only google. After I blocked that the spam
volume immediately fell to close to zero. In fact, most days it is zero,
in all newsgroups I follow.
>> I could of course post using any of my other email addresses, but that would
>> ruin my archive history, I've been posting using the same gmail address for
>> over 5 years now. Can't lose that covered 3 highest poster position on
>> aus.electronics now can I! :->
>>
Very understandable. Thought about a Guinness book entry? :-)
>> Dave.
>
> "Bumped" for Joerg's benefit.
>
> (Dave, I block all that stuff that Joerg does, _except_ I know how to
> use a white-list, which you are on ;-)
>
Thanks, Jim.
Rich Grise
> Joerg wrote:
>> Joel Koltner wrote:
>>> Although, come to think of it, even at 30mA you're dissipating upwards
>>> of 90mW in the CPU so 1.7mW being dissipated in the battery's internal
>>> resistance is still under 2% of the total power consumption... perhaps
>>> not worth worrying about!
>>>
>> In a calculator? Ouch, ouch ...
>>
>> I can't see David's posts since he is using Google.
>
> I haven't posted used Google Groups for a long time. I do however use
> gmail for my usenet email address (which is valid). If you are filtering
> out posters because they use gmail for email then that's the wrong
> approach.
>
My newsreader, Pan, has a menu entry: "Articles/Plonk author", which gives
options for the plonk.
I simply plonk the insufferable assholes. ;-)
Of course, when somebody trollfeeds them, I have another post to skip -
when a thread has turned into a pissfest, I have an "ignore thread" menu
entry. :-)
Cheers!
Rich
Rich Grise
> David L. Jones wrote:
>> Joerg wrote:
>>> Joel Koltner wrote:
>>>> Although, come to think of it, even at 30mA you're dissipating upwards
>>>> of 90mW in the CPU so 1.7mW being dissipated in the battery's internal
>>>> resistance is still under 2% of the total power consumption... perhaps
>>>> not worth worrying about!
>>>>
>>> In a calculator? Ouch, ouch ...
>>>
>>> I can't see David's posts since he is using Google.
>>
>> I haven't posted used Google Groups for a long time. I do however use
>> gmail for my usenet email address (which is valid). If you are filtering
>> out posters because they use gmail for email then that's the wrong
>> approach.
>
> Oops, of course Joerg won't be able to read this because I'm being
> filtered for using gmail.
> If someone with a "real" email address can bump it so he can see it that
> would be appreciated!
> BTW, I post using Teranews, I'm not sure if that's "trendy" and acceptable
> enough this week?, or is that a spammer haven too?...
>
> I could of course post using any of my other email addresses, but that
> would ruin my archive history, I've been posting using the same gmail
> address for over 5 years now. Can't lose that covered 3 highest poster
> position on aus.electronics now can I! :->
>
have configured to just delete everything. To make a real email from my
spamdump, elide ard. ;-)
(if you don't know what "elide ard" means, I probably don't want to hear
from you anyway.) ;-)
Cheers!
Rich
Rich Grise
> Bump!
>
> Or at least use a newsreader with real features, like Outlook Express.
Butthook Distress is a fucking virus magnet. Download Thunderbird or Pan
or something, anything but MICRO$~1.
Hope This Helps!
Rich
Joerg
> Bump!
>
Thanks.
> Or at least use a newsreader with real features, like Outlook Express. I've
> got filters here that do a fine job. Try it some day, it works, despite
> what popular opinion might believe.
>
Only over my dead body. OE is one of the reasons why, for example,
people often can't read each others attachments because of that dreaded
winmail.dat problem.
Joerg
I have Thunderbird. How do you whitelist with it?
Jim Thompson
wrote:
>Jim Thompson wrote:
>> On Tue, 01 Dec 2009 09:41:56 -0800, Joerg <inv...@invalid.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Joel Koltner wrote:
>>>> "Joerg" <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>>>> news:7nktmkF...@mid.individual.net...
>> [snip]
>>>>> I can't see David's posts since he is using Google.
>>>> He's definitely worth whitelisting!
>>>>
>>> I know, but I can't. Yeah, Jim will now say I should use Agent instead
>>> but I don't want to change newsreaders again.
>>>
>> [snip]
>>
>> Whine! Whine! Whine! Whine!
>>
>> Time for you to join the 21st Century.
>>
>
>Wait, isn't Agent from the last century and kind of fading a bit? Please
>elucidate.
I just updated to version 6, released this past week.
Of course you'd probably do best with Outhouse Excuse ;-)
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
David L. Jones
> Jim Thompson wrote:
>> On Wed, 2 Dec 2009 08:48:36 +1100, "David L. Jones"
>> <alt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> David L. Jones wrote:
>>>> Joerg wrote:
>>>>> Joel Koltner wrote:
>>>>>> Although, come to think of it, even at 30mA you're dissipating
>>>>>> upwards of 90mW in the CPU so 1.7mW being dissipated in the
>>>>>> battery's internal resistance is still under 2% of the total
>>>>>> power consumption... perhaps not worth worrying about!
>>>>>>
>>>>> In a calculator? Ouch, ouch ...
>>>>>
>>>>> I can't see David's posts since he is using Google.
>>>> I haven't posted used Google Groups for a long time. I do however
>>>> use gmail for my usenet email address (which is valid).
>>>> If you are filtering out posters because they use gmail for email
>>>> then that's the wrong approach.
>
>
> Well, right now I don't have another option
Your reader program can only filter on email domains and not newsgroup
domains?
That's strange, I haven't heard of any program that does this, or anyone
filtering by email domain alone.
Most people just filter out the google usenet domain if anything, in which
case I won't get filtered out.
The huge advantage of using gmail for my newgroup (and other) email is that
I get zero email spam.
I used to use my old ISP email address on the newsgroups, but I got
continually spammed. Gmail seems to know how to deal with it all. So no need
for me to obfuscate my email address like many do on here.
Dave.
--
================================================
Jim Thompson
wrote:
>Rich Grise wrote:
>> On Tue, 01 Dec 2009 16:12:23 -0600, Tim Williams wrote:
>>> Bump!
>>>
>>> Or at least use a newsreader with real features, like Outlook Express.
>>
>> Butthook Distress is a fucking virus magnet. Download Thunderbird or Pan
>> or something, anything but MICRO$~1.
>>
>
>I have Thunderbird. How do you whitelist with it?
Thunderbird is for E-mail.
Agent will do both E-mail and news reading.
Joerg
> On Tue, 01 Dec 2009 16:01:52 -0800, Joerg <inv...@invalid.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> Rich Grise wrote:
>>> On Tue, 01 Dec 2009 16:12:23 -0600, Tim Williams wrote:
>>>> Bump!
>>>>
>>>> Or at least use a newsreader with real features, like Outlook Express.
>>> Butthook Distress is a fucking virus magnet. Download Thunderbird or Pan
>>> or something, anything but MICRO$~1.
>>>
>> I have Thunderbird. How do you whitelist with it?
>
> Thunderbird is for E-mail.
>
> Agent will do both E-mail and news reading.
>
I've switched from Netscape to Mozilla, then from there to Thunderbird.
Every time several PC and birthing pains when transferring accounts. I
don't want to do it again just because of one spam-infested domain.
Jim Thompson
wrote:
>Jim Thompson wrote:
>> On Tue, 01 Dec 2009 16:01:52 -0800, Joerg <inv...@invalid.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Rich Grise wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 01 Dec 2009 16:12:23 -0600, Tim Williams wrote:
>>>>> Bump!
>>>>>
>>>>> Or at least use a newsreader with real features, like Outlook Express.
>>>> Butthook Distress is a fucking virus magnet. Download Thunderbird or Pan
>>>> or something, anything but MICRO$~1.
>>>>
>>> I have Thunderbird. How do you whitelist with it?
>>
>> Thunderbird is for E-mail.
>>
>> Agent will do both E-mail and news reading.
>>
>
>I've switched from Netscape to Mozilla, then from there to Thunderbird.
>Every time several PC and birthing pains when transferring accounts. I
>don't want to do it again just because of one spam-infested domain.
Weenie?
Tim Williams
news:pan.2009.12.01....@example.net...
>> Or at least use a newsreader with real features, like Outlook Express.
>
> Butthook Distress is a fucking virus magnet.
Rich Rich Rich,
My invitation to visit my computer with your choice of virus scanner still
stands unanswered.
I'm afraid you are precisely the example of irrational idiot who bleats
meaningless nonsense.
Tim Williams
> Only over my dead body. OE is one of the reasons why, for example,
> people often can't read each others attachments because of that dreaded
> winmail.dat problem.
I've never had that happen. Hell, I'll attach right now to demonstrate my
MIME compliance...
Dang, Eternal September doesn't allow attachments on non-binary
groups. Well at any rate, I've posted to ABSE plenty of times and never had
any complaints. Soooo I don't see what you're objecting to.
Jim Thompson
<tmor...@charter.net> wrote:
>"Joerg" <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>news:7nlp2jF...@mid.individual.net...
>> Only over my dead body. OE is one of the reasons why, for example,
>> people often can't read each others attachments because of that dreaded
>> winmail.dat problem.
>
>I've never had that happen. Hell, I'll attach right now to demonstrate my
>MIME compliance...
>
>Dang, Eternal September doesn't allow attachments on non-binary
>groups. Well at any rate, I've posted to ABSE plenty of times and never had
>any complaints. Soooo I don't see what you're objecting to.
>
>Tim
Joerg persists at being inexperienced and defensive ;-)
"winmail.dat" CAN be annoying until you realize a simple plug-in
handles it quite nicely in non-Wimpows E-mail clients (I've used
Eudora forever).
ehsjr
> Jim Thompson wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 01 Dec 2009 16:01:52 -0800, Joerg <inv...@invalid.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Rich Grise wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 01 Dec 2009 16:12:23 -0600, Tim Williams wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Bump!
>>>>>
>>>>> Or at least use a newsreader with real features, like Outlook Express.
>>>>
>>>> Butthook Distress is a fucking virus magnet. Download Thunderbird or
>>>> Pan
>>>> or something, anything but MICRO$~1.
>>>>
>>> I have Thunderbird. How do you whitelist with it?
>>
>>
>> Thunderbird is for E-mail.
>>
>> Agent will do both E-mail and news reading.
>>
>
> I've switched from Netscape to Mozilla, then from there to Thunderbird.
> Every time several PC and birthing pains when transferring accounts. I
> don't want to do it again just because of one spam-infested domain.
>
You could use news.eternal-september.org
It's free, and lets you use abse as well as Dave's posts. :-)
It seems low in spam content.
Ed
ehsjr
Martin Riddle
"Jim Thompson" <To-Email-Use-Th...@My-Web-Site.com/Snicker>
wrote in message news:59mbh5dgjb1abd1h4...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 01 Dec 2009 18:52:48 -0800, Joerg <inv...@invalid.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>>Jim Thompson wrote:
>>> On Tue, 01 Dec 2009 16:01:52 -0800, Joerg <inv...@invalid.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Rich Grise wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 01 Dec 2009 16:12:23 -0600, Tim Williams wrote:
>>>>>> Bump!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Or at least use a newsreader with real features, like Outlook
>>>>>> Express.
>>>>> Butthook Distress is a fucking virus magnet. Download Thunderbird
>>>>> or Pan
>>>>> or something, anything but MICRO$~1.
>>>>>
>>>> I have Thunderbird. How do you whitelist with it?
>>>
>>> Thunderbird is for E-mail.
>>>
>>> Agent will do both E-mail and news reading.
>>>
>>
>>I've switched from Netscape to Mozilla, then from there to
>>Thunderbird.
>>Every time several PC and birthing pains when transferring accounts. I
>>don't want to do it again just because of one spam-infested domain.
>
> Weenie?
>
I'll get the apathy cream ready.....
Cheers
Mark Zenier
John Larkin <jjla...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
>The new HP35 is a sad parody of the beautiful original. The display is
>awful. It's so overloaded with features that you'll never use that the
>basic functions are obscured. Not recommended.
>
>Somebody should make a true HP35 clone. They'd sell jillions of them.
There's an article in the November 2009 Circuit Cellar Ink about
how to reprogram the new 20B ARM based unit. With the title
"How to Repurpose a Development Platform", y'all might have missed
it. Written by Cyrille de Brebisson at HP's Calculator Division
in Boise, Idaho.
Mark Zenier mze...@eskimo.com
Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com)
Joerg
> On Tue, 1 Dec 2009 21:17:10 -0600, "Tim Williams"
> <tmor...@charter.net> wrote:
>
>> "Joerg" <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:7nlp2jF...@mid.individual.net...
>>> Only over my dead body. OE is one of the reasons why, for example,
>>> people often can't read each others attachments because of that dreaded
>>> winmail.dat problem.
>> I've never had that happen. Hell, I'll attach right now to demonstrate my
>> MIME compliance...
>>
>> Dang, Eternal September doesn't allow attachments on non-binary
>> groups. Well at any rate, I've posted to ABSE plenty of times and never had
>> any complaints. Soooo I don't see what you're objecting to.
>>
>> Tim
>
> Joerg persists at being inexperienced and defensive ;-)
>
> "winmail.dat" CAN be annoying until you realize a simple plug-in
> handles it quite nicely in non-Wimpows E-mail clients (I've used
> Eudora forever).
>
Yeah, the TB plug-in for it worked about five times for me, for one
sender. Then ... poof.
Joerg
> David L. Jones wrote:
>> Joerg wrote:
>>
>>> Jim Thompson wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 2 Dec 2009 08:48:36 +1100, "David L. Jones"
>>>> <alt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> David L. Jones wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Joerg wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Joel Koltner wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Although, come to think of it, even at 30mA you're dissipating
>>>>>>>> upwards of 90mW in the CPU so 1.7mW being dissipated in the
>>>>>>>> battery's internal resistance is still under 2% of the total
>>>>>>>> power consumption... perhaps not worth worrying about!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In a calculator? Ouch, ouch ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I can't see David's posts since he is using Google.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I haven't posted used Google Groups for a long time. I do however
>>>>>> use gmail for my usenet email address (which is valid).
>>>>>> If you are filtering out posters because they use gmail for email
>>>>>> then that's the wrong approach.
>>>
>>>
>>> Well, right now I don't have another option
>>
>>
>> Your reader program can only filter on email domains and not newsgroup
>> domains?
It can't :-(
>> That's strange, I haven't heard of any program that does this, or
>> anyone filtering by email domain alone.
>> Most people just filter out the google usenet domain if anything, in
>> which case I won't get filtered out.
>>
I'll have to get to the ground of this. AFAIK (so far) you need some
sort of proxy go-between that downloads all messages, looks at the full
source and then weeds out the chaff (based on NG domain). Or a
newsreader that does this but which probably also must download
everything. That means tons of data transfer which can be cumbersome in
hotels or airports where you are sharing WLAN with dozens of other and
the kid next to you is watching Youtube in hi-def ;-)
>> The huge advantage of using gmail for my newgroup (and other) email is
>> that I get zero email spam.
Yeah, because Google seems to provide a good incoming filter but not to
do a thing about spewing spam from their domain.
>> I used to use my old ISP email address on the newsgroups, but I got
>> continually spammed. Gmail seems to know how to deal with it all. So
>> no need for me to obfuscate my email address like many do on here.
>>
But they don't seem to know (or care) what gets sent from there. Most of
the spam was sales of some dubious goods. It completely stopped after I
blocked the domain but I know this isn't a great solution.
>> Dave.
>>
> bump
Thanks!
Jim Thompson
wrote:
>Jim Thompson wrote:
>> On Tue, 1 Dec 2009 21:17:10 -0600, "Tim Williams"
>> <tmor...@charter.net> wrote:
>>
>>> "Joerg" <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:7nlp2jF...@mid.individual.net...
>>>> Only over my dead body. OE is one of the reasons why, for example,
>>>> people often can't read each others attachments because of that dreaded
>>>> winmail.dat problem.
>>> I've never had that happen. Hell, I'll attach right now to demonstrate my
>>> MIME compliance...
>>>
>>> Dang, Eternal September doesn't allow attachments on non-binary
>>> groups. Well at any rate, I've posted to ABSE plenty of times and never had
>>> any complaints. Soooo I don't see what you're objecting to.
>>>
>>> Tim
>>
>> Joerg persists at being inexperienced and defensive ;-)
>>
>> "winmail.dat" CAN be annoying until you realize a simple plug-in
>> handles it quite nicely in non-Wimpows E-mail clients (I've used
>> Eudora forever).
>>
>
>Yeah, the TB plug-in for it worked about five times for me, for one
>sender. Then ... poof.
What is your name, "Joe Btfsplk" ?:-)
I use Eudora Pro v7.1.0.9 for E-mail
I use Agent v6.00/32.1186
On WinXP Pro
No problems!
I even have those dumb-ass Microsoft ".ics" calendared events going
straight to my calendar.
Jim Thompson
wrote:
Newsproxy/NFilter is free... if you need to go that route. It's a bit
cumbersome to update filtering when you use it. That's why I've gone
with Agent and its ability to content-filter IF you do a little
meddling with Macro Express or some other scripting gimmick... thus I
only need to edit a "key" file to add or subtract "perps" ;-)
That's how I grab all messages from John L, John F, YOU and a few
others, examine CONTENT for the presence of various obnoxia, then toss
Joerg
As said before, I am not going to switch mail/newsreaders again. With
that one biz contact that can't get their winmail.dat problem fixed at
the source (it's very easy) because the IT folks won't do it I simply
put an FTP site in place for them -> done.
Jim Thompson
wrote:
Atmel "IT" (what an oxymoron) blocks E-mail attachments that end in
".zip", but NOT ".piz" ;-)
Joerg
But in order for it to do the job doesn't it have to download
everything, message body, lock, stock and barrel? That would be a pain
when on the road, at least with busy newsgroups. You don't get 1Mbit/sec
at an airport unless you are on the last flight out :-)
Seriously, when I was at Las Vegas airport a few weeks ago and had a
Guinness at gate C1 the WLAN became real slow. Then I found out why: Two
guys were simultaneously watching a ballgame on their laptops.
Jim Thompson
wrote:
Only bodies for known "feeders" ;-)
>That would be a pain
>when on the road, at least with busy newsgroups. You don't get 1Mbit/sec
>at an airport unless you are on the last flight out :-)
I'm rarely out of town for more than a day. So it's rare that I take
a laptop, unless I'm away for some substantial time, then I have a
hotel for such "browsing".
I travel lite... cellphone, change of undies, jacket only when
necessary ;-)
I hate traveling :-(
>
>Seriously, when I was at Las Vegas airport a few weeks ago and had a
>Guinness at gate C1 the WLAN became real slow. Then I found out why: Two
>guys were simultaneously watching a ballgame on their laptops.
I use my cellphone for E-mail while traveling.... with forwarding
control by Eudora filtering... so no spam at all in the cellphone.
qrk
<zapwireD...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>"qrk" <Spam...@spam.net> wrote in message
>news:ff0bh5lh18l24hdag...@4ax.com...
>> HP32S II would be a more useful calculator.
>
>It's certainly better designed, but it's lacking in easy-to-use complex number
>handling.
>
>I'm amazed that so many calculators today (Casio and Sharp come to mind) have
>fundamentally separate "modes" for complex number calculations, where you
>often lose out on the ability to use many scientific functions, memories, etc.
>I mean, how is it that these guys can write up all the code to, e.g., display
>"textbook style" formulae yet they can't implement the complex version of the
>transcendental functions?
>
>HP "got it right" in that there's only ever "one mode" (well, at least until
>they had the switch-hitting RPN/algebra calculators), and the user just had to
>know to use "CPLX+", "CPLX-", etc. when they didn't yet have enough memory (or
>whatever) for full complex number support.
>
>---Joel
>
True, the HP32 has funky complex number handling. The new HP35S does a
better job, but the idiots at HP have never used a calculator and came
up with a display system that sucks when you have lots of digits. The
other bad thing with the HP32 series is the zebra connectors. After 10
or 15 years they become intermittent or stop working unless you
tighten up the board retainers.
--
Mark
RST Engineering
wrote:
>
>"RST Engineering"
>
>>
>> ...cost me a month's pay as a brand new engineer back in '68 and worth
>> every dime of it.
>
>** Errr - the first HP35 was not available until 1972.
You are correct. I just went back to my notebooks from that era. It
was my SECOND tour of duty with that same company.
>
>
>> I could do in an hour what it took me a day to do
>> with log and trig tables.
>
>
>** Should have tried using a well lubricated slide rule.
Needed better accuracy. My Pickett just wouldn't cut it.
Jim
>
>
>
>.... Phil
>
RST Engineering
>>
>>...cost me a month's pay as a brand new engineer back in '68 and worth
>>every dime of it. I could do in an hour what it took me a day to do
>>with log and trig tables.
>
>A month's pay in '68? It came out in '72. Even in '68 $400/month was
>pretty crappy pay.
Hey, if you can remember the '60s, you didn't experience them {;-)
OK, OK, it was the SECOND time I'd been hired by that company and by
then it was a third of a month's pay. That was still a hell of a lot
of money when you were still buying your first house for $8500.
OK?
Jim
Joerg
That's a ton of data to slosh around.
>> That would be a pain
>> when on the road, at least with busy newsgroups. You don't get 1Mbit/sec
>> at an airport unless you are on the last flight out :-)
>
> I'm rarely out of town for more than a day. So it's rare that I take
> a laptop, unless I'm away for some substantial time, then I have a
> hotel for such "browsing".
>
> I travel lite... cellphone, change of undies, jacket only when
> necessary ;-)
>
> I hate traveling :-(
>
I have to take a 'puter but nowadays I usually take the netbook. 8h+ on
one charge. I snapped a photo with its camera from said pub with me
holding a Guinness and emailed it home right there :-)
[...]
Joel Koltner
in message
> ".zip", but NOT ".piz" ;-)
I was at a presentation by some Atmel guys a little over a year ago where they
were demonstrating their C compiler/debugger for the AVR32 line of
microcontrollers; the tools run on both Windows and Linux. One Atmel guy
mentioned he had to get "special permission" from someone high up in
management to be allowed to have a Linux machine plugged into their network,
as the IT guys official policy was that only Windows machines were allowed on
the network... even though the plans to provide tools for Linux machines had
been well publicized throughout the company for quite some time. :-(
Joerg
Whoops. How do they password-protect emaiol attachments? Rename every time?
Jim Thompson
wrote:
Huh? Text files?
>
>
>>> That would be a pain
>>> when on the road, at least with busy newsgroups. You don't get 1Mbit/sec
>>> at an airport unless you are on the last flight out :-)
>>
>> I'm rarely out of town for more than a day. So it's rare that I take
>> a laptop, unless I'm away for some substantial time, then I have a
>> hotel for such "browsing".
>>
>> I travel lite... cellphone, change of undies, jacket only when
>> necessary ;-)
>>
>> I hate traveling :-(
>>
>
>I have to take a 'puter but nowadays I usually take the netbook. 8h+ on
>one charge. I snapped a photo with its camera from said pub with me
>holding a Guinness and emailed it home right there :-)
>
>[...]
I can do that from my cellphone (LG "the V"), though I'm not so
inclined. I could do without the camera, but I like the full QWERTY
keyboard and _real_ speakerphone capability... and typically a
week-long battery life ;-)
Joerg
> On Wed, 02 Dec 2009 12:07:41 -0800, Joerg <inv...@invalid.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> Jim Thompson wrote:
>>> On Wed, 02 Dec 2009 10:33:21 -0800, Joerg <inv...@invalid.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Jim Thompson wrote:
[...]
>>>>> Newsproxy/NFilter is free... if you need to go that route. It's a bit
>>>>> cumbersome to update filtering when you use it. That's why I've gone
>>>>> with Agent and its ability to content-filter IF you do a little
>>>>> meddling with Macro Express or some other scripting gimmick... thus I
>>>>> only need to edit a "key" file to add or subtract "perps" ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>> That's how I grab all messages from John L, John F, YOU and a few
>>>>> others, examine CONTENT for the presence of various obnoxia, then toss
>>>>> ;-)
>>>>>
>>>> But in order for it to do the job doesn't it have to download
>>>> everything, message body, lock, stock and barrel?
>>> Only bodies for known "feeders" ;-)
>>>
>> That's a ton of data to slosh around.
>
> Huh? Text files?
>
Well, there are guys who don't snip :-)
In some groups they schlepp along huge amounts of C- or assembler-code.
>>
>>>> That would be a pain
>>>> when on the road, at least with busy newsgroups. You don't get 1Mbit/sec
>>>> at an airport unless you are on the last flight out :-)
>>> I'm rarely out of town for more than a day. So it's rare that I take
>>> a laptop, unless I'm away for some substantial time, then I have a
>>> hotel for such "browsing".
>>>
>>> I travel lite... cellphone, change of undies, jacket only when
>>> necessary ;-)
>>>
>>> I hate traveling :-(
>>>
>> I have to take a 'puter but nowadays I usually take the netbook. 8h+ on
>> one charge. I snapped a photo with its camera from said pub with me
>> holding a Guinness and emailed it home right there :-)
>>
>> [...]
>
> I can do that from my cellphone (LG "the V"), though I'm not so
> inclined. I could do without the camera, but I like the full QWERTY
> keyboard and _real_ speakerphone capability... and typically a
> week-long battery life ;-)
>
In some areas they won't allow your cell phone on the premises if it
contains a camera.
Jim Thompson
wrote:
>Jim Thompson wrote:
>> On Wed, 02 Dec 2009 12:07:41 -0800, Joerg <inv...@invalid.invalid>
>> wrote:
[snip]
>>
>> I can do that from my cellphone (LG "the V"), though I'm not so
>> inclined. I could do without the camera, but I like the full QWERTY
>> keyboard and _real_ speakerphone capability... and typically a
>> week-long battery life ;-)
>>
>
>In some areas they won't allow your cell phone on the premises if it
>contains a camera.
I'm well aware. I'd like my "V" sans camera. Maybe if I bust out the
lens ?:-)
John Larkin
wrote:
>
>I have to take a 'puter but nowadays I usually take the netbook. 8h+ on
>one charge. I snapped a photo with its camera from said pub with me
>holding a Guinness and emailed it home right there :-)
My wife drinks that stuff. I think of Guinness as a roofing material.
John
Joerg
Exactly the other way around with us. My wife drinks a maximum of one
sip when it comes to Guinness or Porter. More and more US airports now
have Irish pubs. Love it.
Jim Thompson
My wife drinks it also. I can take it or leave it. I prefer wheat
beers, etc.
Baron
Use Public Private key combination.
--
Best Regards:
Baron.
Michael A. Terrell
Jim Thompson wrote:
>
> On Tue, 01 Dec 2009 09:41:56 -0800, Joerg <inv...@invalid.invalid>
> wrote:
>
> >Joel Koltner wrote:
> >> "Joerg" <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> [snip]
> >>> I can't see David's posts since he is using Google.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >I know, but I can't. Yeah, Jim will now say I should use Agent instead
> >but I don't want to change newsreaders again.
> >
> [snip]
>
> Whine! Whine! Whine! Whine!
>
> Time for you to join the 21st Century.
You mean that you're going to let him skip the 20th century?
--
The movie 'Deliverance' isn't a documentary!
Joerg
In industry that has never caught on, at least not in my fields of work.
Jim Thompson
Zip your data into save.zip
Password protect save.zip
Rename save.zip to save.piz
E-mail right thru their "protection"
Receiver renames save.piz to save.zip
Then password open it
Michael A. Terrell
Tim Williams wrote:
>
> "Rich Grise" <rich...@example.net> wrote in message
> news:pan.2009.12.01....@example.net...
> >> Or at least use a newsreader with real features, like Outlook Express.
> >
> > Butthook Distress is a fucking virus magnet.
>
> Rich Rich Rich,
>
> My invitation to visit my computer with your choice of virus scanner still
> stands unanswered.
>
> I'm afraid you are precisely the example of irrational idiot who bleats
> meaningless nonsense.
Watch it. Rich will start claiming that you hate him!
krw
<jwe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 19:28:38 -0600, krw <k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
>
>>>
>>>...cost me a month's pay as a brand new engineer back in '68 and worth
>>>every dime of it. I could do in an hour what it took me a day to do
>>>with log and trig tables.
>>
>>A month's pay in '68? It came out in '72. Even in '68 $400/month was
>>pretty crappy pay.
>
>Hey, if you can remember the '60s, you didn't experience them {;-)
I graduated HS in '70, so I remember the '60s. ;-)
>OK, OK, it was the SECOND time I'd been hired by that company and by
>then it was a third of a month's pay. That was still a hell of a lot
>of money when you were still buying your first house for $8500.
I was a Senior in college (late '73), working as a tech for the
university (20hrs/week @ $2.25/hr).
Joel Koltner
> In industry that has never caught on, at least not in my fields of work.
With the work we do with military contractors it's used, albeit I'd have to
say a bit grudginly... people consider the initial setup to be too much of a
hassle at times, I guess.
Joerg
Yup. Except us guys have two steps less :-)
Tim Williams
news:u--dnYoH4dLdZYvW...@earthlink.com...
>> I'm afraid you are precisely the example of irrational idiot who bleats
>> meaningless nonsense.
>
> Watch it. Rich will start claiming that you hate him!
But but... that would be... *Irrational!* ;-)
Tim
--
Deep Friar: a very philosophical monk.
Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms
Allan Herriman
> "qrk" <Spam...@spam.net> wrote in message
> news:ff0bh5lh18l24hdag...@4ax.com...
>> HP32S II would be a more useful calculator.
>
> It's certainly better designed, but it's lacking in easy-to-use complex
> number handling.
>
> I'm amazed that so many calculators today (Casio and Sharp come to mind)
> have fundamentally separate "modes" for complex number calculations,
> where you often lose out on the ability to use many scientific
> functions, memories, etc. I mean, how is it that these guys can write up
> all the code to, e.g., display "textbook style" formulae yet they can't
> implement the complex version of the transcendental functions?
>
> HP "got it right" in that there's only ever "one mode" (well, at least
> until they had the switch-hitting RPN/algebra calculators), and the user
> just had to know to use "CPLX+", "CPLX-", etc. when they didn't yet have
> enough memory (or whatever) for full complex number support.
I lost my 15C when some airline luggage was stolen. I tried a 32SII but
hated it, and finally settled on a software based RPN calculator that
seems more in the "HP style" than any from HP.
Tip: run it in 'mini' mode and use the keyboard shortcuts.
Cheers,
Allan
Spehro Pefhany
ChrisQ
You are kidding, right ?. It's one of the few beers left that has any
edge. Most of the light or lager beers have no taste at all. Lager is
very popular in the uk though, especially in the cities on a Saturday
night, with both men and women loose at both ends :-)...
Regards,
Chris
Anssi Saari
> Somebody should make a true HP35 clone. They'd sell jillions of them.
Are you sure? Do people really use calculators any more and if they
do, why?
Sure, I do some little things with my old HP48SX and older Casio, but
for most things a computer just beats them. I guess it starts with a
computer keyboard being at lot easier to use and the availability of
copy-paste...
Then there's a spreadsheet on pretty much every machine, and for free
a whole bunch of things like a script language with builtin types for
complex numbers, arbitrary precision integers and fractions (Python)
and a huge numerical function package for it (numpy), more numerical
tools in Octave and Scilab, Maxima for symbolic...
Jim Thompson
I use my calculator maybe once or twice a day.
Anssi Saari
> I use my calculator maybe once or twice a day.
I did ask why. Old habit or is there really something it does better?
Jim Thompson
I still need Ohms law in my Analog world, calculating resistor values
for my chip designs ;-)
Actually, I probably use pencil and paper more.
John Larkin
>John Larkin <jjla...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> writes:
>
>> Somebody should make a true HP35 clone. They'd sell jillions of them.
>
>Are you sure? Do people really use calculators any more and if they
>do, why?
To do math without being in front of a computer.
>
>Sure, I do some little things with my old HP48SX and older Casio, but
>for most things a computer just beats them. I guess it starts with a
>computer keyboard being at lot easier to use and the availability of
>copy-paste...
I find calculators to be easier to use than a computer screen.
>
>Then there's a spreadsheet on pretty much every machine, and for free
>a whole bunch of things like a script language with builtin types for
>complex numbers, arbitrary precision integers and fractions (Python)
>and a huge numerical function package for it (numpy), more numerical
>tools in Octave and Scilab, Maxima for symbolic...
I write a PowerBasic program to do serious math.
I had a fairly horrible programmable-gain-amplifier design problem
yesterday, the issue being to pick in-stock+available 0.05% resistors
in a string to get the required gain settings within a software
calibration headroom tolerance. I hacked the ideal values with a
little algebra and used LT Spice DC analysis to evaluate the gains and
CMRR with available resistor values.
John
krw
No fractional arithmetic. Its binary mode is useless.
krw
>John Larkin <jjla...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> writes:
>
>> Somebody should make a true HP35 clone. They'd sell jillions of them.
>
>Are you sure? Do people really use calculators any more and if they
>do, why?
>
>Sure, I do some little things with my old HP48SX and older Casio, but
>for most things a computer just beats them. I guess it starts with a
>computer keyboard being at lot easier to use and the availability of
>copy-paste...
The key layout is far better. A screwdriver is often better tool
choice than a hammer.
>Then there's a spreadsheet on pretty much every machine, and for free
>a whole bunch of things like a script language with builtin types for
>complex numbers, arbitrary precision integers and fractions (Python)
>and a huge numerical function package for it (numpy), more numerical
>tools in Octave and Scilab, Maxima for symbolic...
They're great for repetitive calculations, but no so much for a
one-off. Though I use them all the time, a lot of engineering
calculations are a PITA on a spreadsheet.
krw
<To-Email-Use-Th...@My-Web-Site.com/Snicker> wrote:
>On Thu, 03 Dec 2009 22:50:22 +0200, Anssi Saari <a...@sci.fi> wrote:
>
>>Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-Th...@My-Web-Site.com/Snicker> writes:
>>
>>> I use my calculator maybe once or twice a day.
>>
>>I did ask why. Old habit or is there really something it does better?
>
>I still need Ohms law in my Analog world, calculating resistor values
>for my chip designs ;-)
I even use resistors on boards. ;-)
>Actually, I probably use pencil and paper more.
I almost always have a pad of paper and a calculator sitting next to
my keyboard.
David L. Jones
It's because a calculator is faster and more convenient. You can move it
around your desk, sit it on the datasheet or catalog you are working with,
take it anywhere like the next cubicle, lab, meeting etc etc. And it always
works when you need it, no modes, no boot or load time, and solar powered
ones never run out of juice.
Computer based calculators have none of these advantages, and similar with
phone based calculators.
Dave.
--
================================================
Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog & Podcast:
http://www.eevblog.com
Allan Herriman
Fractions can be entered using the space key. Calculations will be done
returning fractions where possible.
Agree about the binary modes. OTOH, the HP15C (not 16C) that I was
replacing didn't have any binary modes at all.
Cheers,
Allan
Michael A. Terrell
Tim Williams wrote:
>
> "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:u--dnYoH4dLdZYvW...@earthlink.com...
> >> I'm afraid you are precisely the example of irrational idiot who bleats
> >> meaningless nonsense.
> >
> > Watch it. Rich will start claiming that you hate him!
>
> But but... that would be... *Irrational!* ;-)
Your point?
JosephKK
<pa...@hovnanian.com> wrote:
>Phil Allison wrote:
>>
>> "RST Engineering"
>>
>> >
>> > ...cost me a month's pay as a brand new engineer back in '68 and worth
>> > every dime of it.
>>
>> ** Errr - the first HP35 was not available until 1972.
>>
>> > I could do in an hour what it took me a day to do
>> > with log and trig tables.
>
>Good thing. He did have that 4 year backlog of work ('68-'72) to catch
>up with while waiting for it. ;-)
Maybe not readily available in Aus. But IIRC my dad had an HP35 then
an HP45 well before i graduated HS in 1970.
See:
http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/archv017.cgi?read=111916
JosephKK
wrote:
>Joel Koltner wrote:
>> "Joerg" <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:7nktmkF...@mid.individual.net...
>>> Joel Koltner wrote:
>>>> Although, come to think of it, even at 30mA you're dissipating upwards of
>>>> 90mW in the CPU so 1.7mW being dissipated in the battery's internal
>>>> resistance is still under 2% of the total power consumption... perhaps not
>>>> worth worrying about!
>>> In a calculator? Ouch, ouch ...
>>
>> It's actually worse... Dave pointed out my calculation was wrong (I was
>> thinking "30mA" when it's really "30MHz at 0.5mA/MHz"), so power CPU power
>> consumption is 45mW, and hence ~4% power is wasted.
>>
>> But note that this waste of 4% of the power is only when the calculator kicks
>> into "turbo mode" to run a calcuation; when it's just sitting there idle
>> waiting for keypresses, it's close to zero.
>>
>> Here's his blog entry that discussed the problem initially:
>> http://www.eevblog.com/2009/04/16/eevblog-4-low-power-calculator-design-and-fpgas/ .
>>
>>> I can't see David's posts since he is using Google.
>>
>> He's definitely worth whitelisting!
>>
>
>I know, but I can't. Yeah, Jim will now say I should use Agent instead
>but I don't want to change newsreaders again.
>
>
>>> Personally, I think a pocket calculator that devours batteries is not very
>>> useful.
>>
>> The HP 50g is far worse, where some "engineer" took the HP 48 design that used
>> 3 "AA" sells and a switching regulator and designed to save a couple quarters
>> and went to 4 "AA" batteries and a linear regulator. :-(
>>
>
>I love the HP11C. It's all I really need and it was designed by the old
>crew that knew how to do very low power designs. I wish they would just
>take the old processor masks and do a few more runs, then sell an
>anniversary edition. I don't think it'll be a problem to extract
>$50-$100 for it from the wallets of people like me.
I never found changing newsreaders to be that big of a issue. I have
several installed and can (and occasionally do) use any of them. I
prefer agent.
JosephKK
<To-Email-Use-Th...@My-Web-Site.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 01 Dec 2009 11:00:22 -0800, Joerg <inv...@invalid.invalid>
>wrote:
>
>>Jim Thompson wrote:
>>> On Tue, 01 Dec 2009 09:41:56 -0800, Joerg <inv...@invalid.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Joel Koltner wrote:
>>>>> "Joerg" <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>> news:7nktmkF...@mid.individual.net...
>>> [snip]
>>>>>> I can't see David's posts since he is using Google.
>>>>> He's definitely worth whitelisting!
>>>>>
>>>> I know, but I can't. Yeah, Jim will now say I should use Agent instead
>>>> but I don't want to change newsreaders again.
>>>>
>>> [snip]
>>>
>>> Whine! Whine! Whine! Whine!
>>>
>>> Time for you to join the 21st Century.
>>>
>>
>>Wait, isn't Agent from the last century and kind of fading a bit? Please
>>elucidate.
>
>I just updated to version 6, released this past week.
>
>Of course you'd probably do best with Outhouse Excuse ;-)
>
> ...Jim Thompson
Shame on you Jim, you could have found out he is using Thunderbird for
the cost of one keystroke.