Took Three daughters to the shooting range - CCW question
brent
and Wesson and let each shoot 100 rounds at targets. All three
absolutely loved it. I wanted them to shoot a real gun, not a .22.
Anyhow, I have been thinking of buying my own handgun and getting a
Concealed carry permit. Mostly as an exercise of citizen rights. I
am curious , if you feel compelled to answer, if you have a carry
permit and any thoughts on the matter and what kind of handgun to buy.
TTman
"brent" <bule...@columbus.rr.com> wrote in message
news:ffc860ce-3c52-4692...@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com...
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
If you want to pull and shoot, a Glock.
IMO the safest is probably a Walther P99
You might also want to consider 10mm or possibly a .357 for extra
hitting power.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.357_SIG
OTOH, you could go for the insanity option - Desert Eagle
--
Dirk
http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/onetribe - Occult Talk Show
Jim Yanik
news:dKK_m.15763$pV....@newsfe23.ams2:
typical DA,waste-of-bandwidth answer.
>
>
>
First,you have to decide if you have the mindset to shoot another person if
the situation warrants it. Not everyone can do that,or is willing to.
then you MUST teach your children proper gun safety if you're going to keep
a firearm in the house.
sounds like you're already on top of that,but I had to mention it anyways.
some states require a particular gun to be listed on the carry permit,and
the training to be done with that gun.
Some states,you can order the application package online(Florida's is
free),containing the permit manual,fingerprint cards,shipped right to your
mailbox.
Some states do not allow concealed carry at all,or make it extremely
difficult to get a permit(you have to "know somebody").
Some require approval of a local law enforcement official,who can deny you
on their whim.(may-issue states)
then there's the matter of other states "reciprocity",as carry permits are
not always accepted in other states,the way driver's licenses are.
you want a concealable handgun,and you need to consider what clothes you'll
be wearing;that determines HOW you'll be carrying;whether in pocket,small-
of-back holster,ankle holster,or fanny pack.
You don't want others to notice you're armed;in some places,that's a permit
violation resulting in revocation.
KelTec and Kahr are popular small 9mm (9x19)semi-autos.
Don't go lower than .380 auto (9x17)in caliber.
some folks prefer revolvers,being more reliable.
Vermont,(and now Alaska)you need NO permit,carry open or concealed as you
wish.
It's still best to learn the applicable state laws and "when to shoot/not
shoot",and where carriage is NOT allowed.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com
John Larkin
wrote:
The kick from a Dirty Harry gun would knock the kids over. I had a
Ruger Police Special and if I fired 38 magnums I'd probably have
trouble getting off a second shot when it mattered. 45's are worse.
John
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
A good point.
I usually envision a fairly strong man shooting two handed. A weak
person with a limp wrist will have the gun behind the back of their head
after the first shot.
TTman
"Jim Yanik" <jya...@abuse.gov> wrote in message
news:Xns9CF1849FC7291...@216.168.3.44...
> "TTman" <someo...@ntlworld.com> wrote in
> news:dKK_m.15763$pV....@newsfe23.ams2:
>
>>
>> "brent" <bule...@columbus.rr.com> wrote in message
>> news:ffc860ce-3c52-4692...@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com...
>>>I took my three daughters to the shooting range. I rented a 9mm Smith
>>> and Wesson and let each shoot 100 rounds at targets. All three
>>> absolutely loved it. I wanted them to shoot a real gun, not a .22.
>>>
>>> Anyhow, I have been thinking of buying my own handgun and getting a
>>> Concealed carry permit. Mostly as an exercise of citizen rights. I
>>> am curious , if you feel compelled to answer, if you have a carry
>>> permit and any thoughts on the matter and what kind of handgun to buy.
>>>
>> Ask Clint Eastwood.... lol
>
> typical DA,waste-of-bandwidth answer.
>>
>>
incapable of using/responsible enough to own.
He'll probably ask on here if he can shoot the burglar that's just robbing
his house.
We don't have those problems in the UK....
And a .22 between the eyes is probably real enough.
Vladimir Vassilevsky
TTman wrote:
Are you TTman because you carry TT pistol?
VLV
alie...@gmail.com
> I took my three daughters to the shooting range. I rented a 9mm Smith
> and Wesson and let each shoot 100 rounds at targets. All three
> absolutely loved it. I wanted them to shoot a real gun, not a .22.
As the Oz-zies say, good on you, and good on them!
> Anyhow, I have been thinking of buying my own handgun and getting a
> Concealed carry permit. Mostly as an exercise of citizen rights. I
> am curious , if you feel compelled to answer, if you have a carry
> permit and any thoughts on the matter and what kind of handgun to buy.
For some years I open-carried (in AZ) a .45 auto while riding my
bike. Got me plenty of elbow room, never had to draw it.
Consider having to use that weapon; can you or your daughters kill a
person to save their own or someone else's life? There is no other
reason *to* carry.
Next time you go to the range visualize an armed street punk
standing in front of the target. Smell him sweating, hear him
breathing. Can you kill him?
If you are not absolutely positively CERTAIN you are able to kill,
better to take Aikido lessons (less strenuous than Karate but very
effective for defense).
You might consider a Taser instead of a gun; check local laws. The
folks at the range will most likely be very helpful either telling you
everything you want to know or knowing who you should ask.
Now that that's out of the way, I largely concur with Jim Yanik; a .
45 isn't for everybody. You probably want to go with the largest
feasible slug (stopping power) in the smallest feasible gun
(concealability). I don't know how strong your daughters are, but
remember that most shootings are at pretty short range, and most
shooters miss more than they hit, so magnums and such are rather silly
for personal protection. Standard .38 or 9mm is fine. Plus the ammo is
cheaper.
Mark L. Fergerson
Hammy
wrote:
No home invasions in the UK? Must be nice.
>And a .22 between the eyes is probably real enough.
>
Actually when what your shooting at can possibly shoot back you may
find it inadequate. Contrary to TV and movies things dont drop dead
instantly when shot.
Ask some grunts about how they like that pissant 9mm.
brent
> "TTman" <someone...@ntlworld.com> wrote innews:dKK_m.15763$pV....@newsfe23.ams2:
>
>
>
> > "brent" <buleg...@columbus.rr.com> wrote in message
Thanks for your nice reply. Also Thanks to Mark Fergerson and
others. You all have some very good points to think about.
brent
> "Jim Yanik" <jya...@abuse.gov> wrote in message
>
> news:Xns9CF1849FC7291...@216.168.3.44...
>
> >news:dKK_m.15763$pV....@newsfe23.ams2:
>
> >> "brent" <buleg...@columbus.rr.com> wrote in message
> >>news:ffc860ce-3c52-4692...@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com...
> >>>I took my three daughters to the shooting range. I rented a 9mm Smith
> >>> and Wesson and let each shoot 100 rounds at targets. All three
> >>> absolutely loved it. I wanted them to shoot a real gun, not a .22.
>
> >>> Anyhow, I have been thinking of buying my own handgun and getting a
> >>> Concealed carry permit. Mostly as an exercise of citizen rights. I
> >>> am curious , if you feel compelled to answer, if you have a carry
> >>> permit and any thoughts on the matter and what kind of handgun to buy.
>
> >> Ask Clint Eastwood.... lol
>
> > typical DA,waste-of-bandwidth answer.
>
> Not really, if the OP can't even decide what gun to buy, he's obviously
> incapable of using/responsible enough to own.
> He'll probably ask on here if he can shoot the burglar that's just robbing
> his house.
> We don't have those problems in the UK....
> And a .22 between the eyes is probably real enough.
Being that you are from the UK, I would not expect you to "get it".
Nobody in the UK is responsible or capable of using a gun in UK as I
understand it. It is a right of being a citizen thing that I find
partially appealing.
mi...@sushi.com
Was the gun CMOS or bipolar? Battery or line operated?
Don't you just love how these fucking shit-head assholes make decent
gun owners look like loons!
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
> On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 19:16:21 -0000, "TTman" <someo...@ntlworld.com>
> wrote:
>
>> "Jim Yanik" <jya...@abuse.gov> wrote in message
>> news:Xns9CF1849FC7291...@216.168.3.44...
>>> "TTman" <someo...@ntlworld.com> wrote in
>>> news:dKK_m.15763$pV....@newsfe23.ams2:
>>>
>>>> "brent" <bule...@columbus.rr.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:ffc860ce-3c52-4692...@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com...
>>>>> I took my three daughters to the shooting range. I rented a 9mm Smith
>>>>> and Wesson and let each shoot 100 rounds at targets. All three
>>>>> absolutely loved it. I wanted them to shoot a real gun, not a .22.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyhow, I have been thinking of buying my own handgun and getting a
>>>>> Concealed carry permit. Mostly as an exercise of citizen rights. I
>>>>> am curious , if you feel compelled to answer, if you have a carry
>>>>> permit and any thoughts on the matter and what kind of handgun to buy.
>>>>>
>>>> Ask Clint Eastwood.... lol
>>> typical DA,waste-of-bandwidth answer.
>>>>
>> Not really, if the OP can't even decide what gun to buy, he's obviously
>> incapable of using/responsible enough to own.
>> He'll probably ask on here if he can shoot the burglar that's just robbing
>> his house.
>> We don't have those problems in the UK....
>
> No home invasions in the UK? Must be nice.
Remarkably rare here.
Jim Yanik
news:iGN_m.18696$pV.1...@newsfe23.ams2:
Ah,that explains it,you're from the UK.
plonk.
Jim Yanik
news:8obnj5doksbgtmgh9...@4ax.com:
actually,they have a much higher rate of AT-HOME burglaries.
UK criminals have nothing to fear from residents.
Heck,they even invaded their Queen's home.
Beatle George Harrison was nearly stabbed to death by a burglar.
He tried fighting him off with a lamp....
His wife also sustained injuries.
>
>>And a .22 between the eyes is probably real enough.
>>
> Actually when what your shooting at can possibly shoot back you may
> find it inadequate. Contrary to TV and movies things dont drop dead
> instantly when shot.
>
> Ask some grunts about how they like that pissant 9mm.
>
He's probably never owned a gun. Just some unknowledgeable troll.
PeterD
Absolutely. I prefer revolvers, simple, NEVER jam.
TTman
>>>>>>
>>>>> Ask Clint Eastwood.... lol
>>>>
>>>> typical DA,waste-of-bandwidth answer.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>Not really, if the OP can't even decide what gun to buy, he's
>>>obviously incapable of using/responsible enough to own.
>>>He'll probably ask on here if he can shoot the burglar that's just
>>>robbing his house.
>>>We don't have those problems in the UK....
>>
>> No home invasions in the UK? Must be nice.
>
> actually,they have a much higher rate of AT-HOME burglaries.
I doubt you would know that as a fact. I have no idea of the burglary rate
per 100K of pop. in the USA.
Or in the UK, for that matter, as it so rare as to not bother most
'ordinary' people.
Most high profile burglaries ( G Harrison/Queen) are done by nutters. Like
the guy that thought he could blow the Xmas day Delta Jet.
> UK criminals have nothing to fear from residents.
Unless they ( the resident) has a legal gun- 12 gauge twin barrel shotgun.
No fear of missing with that.
Yes, we ARE allowed to legally own /use/carry a shotgun. All other guns,
NO....
I am against ( as are most of the UK) allowing gun carrying. I'll tell you
why.
I live in a town near to Aldershot, hampshire. This is the 'Home of the
British Army'. We have thousands here....
Two days ago, a young woman took her 4 yr old daughter to see her estranged
partner (male)...
Whilst inside the house, the partner shot the daughter and then his
partner( or the other way round) .He then shot himself dead.
The woman died earlier today.
Time will tell the full story and maybe some medical background to the male.
OK over to you guys in the USA....
Let's say this woman had a gun in her handbag..... and there was no history
of violence from the partner.
She walks into his house and he blows the kids head off.
I gues she gets her weapon out and blows his head off....
I don't think so. She would be so traumatised she wouldn't even be able to
think of anything other than the mess in front of her.....
Leave your guns at home guys and leave the real shooting to soldiers who
are properly trained.
rant over.
Jim Thompson
wrote:
>
Awwwwh, shit! Yet another pretend BMOC ;-)
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
Help save the environment!
Please dispose of socialism responsibly!
Jim Thompson
wrote:
Dumb shit pretend BMOC. Surf on "Mesa Arizona grandmother 911
operator 'tell your mom to stop shooting now please'" to find out how
us US'eans can shoot ;-)
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
>>>>>> Ask Clint Eastwood.... lol
>>>>> typical DA,waste-of-bandwidth answer.
>>>>>>
>>>> Not really, if the OP can't even decide what gun to buy, he's
>>>> obviously incapable of using/responsible enough to own.
>>>> He'll probably ask on here if he can shoot the burglar that's just
>>>> robbing his house.
>>>> We don't have those problems in the UK....
>>> No home invasions in the UK? Must be nice.
>> actually,they have a much higher rate of AT-HOME burglaries.
>
> I doubt you would know that as a fact. I have no idea of the burglary rate
> per 100K of pop. in the USA.
> Or in the UK, for that matter, as it so rare as to not bother most
> 'ordinary' people.
> Most high profile burglaries ( G Harrison/Queen) are done by nutters. Like
> the guy that thought he could blow the Xmas day Delta Jet.
>
>> UK criminals have nothing to fear from residents.
>
> Unless they ( the resident) has a legal gun- 12 gauge twin barrel shotgun.
> No fear of missing with that.
> Yes, we ARE allowed to legally own /use/carry a shotgun. All other guns,
> NO....
Not true.
Rifles from .22 auto to higher calibre single shot.
That includes stuff like this:
http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn70-e.htm
Jon Kirwan
wrote:
An excellent array of thoughts.
Also, never ever consider just "pointing a firearm" as a means of
ordering someone around. It's not an "authority stick." I learned
this the hard way. When I was young and still living with my mom, a
boyfriend of hers was pounding her with his fists (he was a fireman
and pretty sturdy.) I had a 7.65mm Deutchverke semiauto for practice
and I grabbed it and pointed it at him, where he'd trapped my mom
against a wall and has hitting her and ordered him to stop. He looked
at me and stopped. But he came right at me and I had to decide if I
was going to pull the trigger or not. I decided I couldn't and he
stood about one inch from my face and told me _never_ to point that at
him again.
What I learned from that was that one should _never_ point a firearm
at a person unless it is intended to be used in the next moment. He
could have just taken it from me and killed me with it, had he wanted
to. It was worse than nothing and I might very well have ended up
dead. Luckily, this situation defused away and he didn't hit my mom
any more and I didn't wind up dead. But it could have gone any of a
number of ways. I was just very stupid and very lucky that time.
I'd like to point up night situations in the home. They may be _very_
dangerous for one's own family. Regular reinforcement of various
roles as a family team helps avoid mistakes. And strobe versions of
flashlights (rather than a simple flashlight) to identify targets may
be worth considering. Identification is crucial.
Continual training to improve accurate thinking speed in situations
helps. Here in Oregon, Clackamas County Sheriff's Office runs regular
trainings for the public on a wide variety of subjects, including
legal issues related to carrying and using a firearm and night
situations, as well. It's a good idea to take advantage of such
programs where they exist and to keep at it.
Your first point about being willing to use the firearm is true. Don't
carry if not prepared to use. I prefer carrying concealed to carrying
open and feel it may actually reduce the likelihood of a conflict when
others see you are able to walk away with confidence.
I walked into a McDonald's in NE Washington DC at night, back in 1980.
This was then a black neighborhood in a difficult section and I was
starkly white and wearing a suit. (I had been sight-seeing on foot.)
Everyone in there stared at me, while I ordered. I received my food
and walked quietly back to my hotel. (A girl was shot to death just
two blocks from where I was at, during my walk back.) No one tried
anything. Either it was because they could see I was confident or
else they just thought I was too insane to bother with. But the suit
probably meant the former was more likely.
I don't mean to suggest taking stupid chances. In my case, I had
already wandered in when it was daylight and hadn't gotten back out of
the area before dark fell. It was the shortest path and I wanted
something to eat on the way back. But the point is that you _can_
choose to just walk away when you carry. And on occasion, that
actually improves your chances of NOT getting into some conflict.
I use a Taurus PT 24/7 PRO DS .40, but also have a 9mm version.
You are never "trained enough." Train continually and take advantage
of professional quality programs in the area.
Jon
krw
<bule...@columbus.rr.com> wrote:
>I took my three daughters to the shooting range. I rented a 9mm Smith
>and Wesson and let each shoot 100 rounds at targets. All three
>absolutely loved it. I wanted them to shoot a real gun, not a .22.
A .38 or 9mm is likely the best bet. The ammo is relatively cheap and
anything bigger (.45 or .357) will likely be painful for them. It's
unlikely they'll enjoy the experience.
>Anyhow, I have been thinking of buying my own handgun and getting a
>Concealed carry permit. Mostly as an exercise of citizen rights. I
>am curious , if you feel compelled to answer, if you have a carry
>permit and any thoughts on the matter and what kind of handgun to buy.
I've had a carry permit for a little over a year. I got it when I
moved to Alabama (didn't need one in VT). I've never carried a weapon
concealed, though (or open, for that matter). I got the permit
essentially for the same reason you cite above (because I can). I
understand it'll get around any possible hassles between home and the
range, too.
I really like my Beretta 92FS Inox. It's a full size 9mm with a
stainless steel slide and upper hardware. I didn't like a lot of the
others, particularly the Glok, because of their plastic frame. The
Glocks didn't fit my hands, either. My suggestion is to go to a good
gun store and feel them yourself. Some ranges allow you to rent
weapons for a nominal fee (around here it's $5) so you can try it
before buying. These stores are typically more expensive than buying
in a sporting goods store box store, though.
http://www.beretta.com/Pistols-Carbines/Defence/Full/92FS/index.aspx?m=82&f=2&id=795&did=1844
krw
wrote:
>"TTman" <someo...@ntlworld.com> wrote in
>news:dKK_m.15763$pV....@newsfe23.ams2:
>
>>
>> "brent" <bule...@columbus.rr.com> wrote in message
>> news:ffc860ce-3c52-4692...@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com...
>>>I took my three daughters to the shooting range. I rented a 9mm Smith
>>> and Wesson and let each shoot 100 rounds at targets. All three
>>> absolutely loved it. I wanted them to shoot a real gun, not a .22.
>>>
>>> Anyhow, I have been thinking of buying my own handgun and getting a
>>> Concealed carry permit. Mostly as an exercise of citizen rights. I
>>> am curious , if you feel compelled to answer, if you have a carry
>>> permit and any thoughts on the matter and what kind of handgun to buy.
>>>
>> Ask Clint Eastwood.... lol
>
>typical DA,waste-of-bandwidth answer.
>>
>>
>>
>
>First,you have to decide if you have the mindset to shoot another person if
>the situation warrants it. Not everyone can do that,or is willing to.
It isn't necessary to shoot people to own a gun, though I expect
everyone has a "will shoot rather than being shot" reflex,
particularly when their children are in the mix.
>then you MUST teach your children proper gun safety if you're going to keep
>a firearm in the house.
>sounds like you're already on top of that,but I had to mention it anyways.
Absolutely agree. Let them shoot it often (at a range) so it's not
that big of a deal. A fun outing, but otherwise not much thought
given to it.
>some states require a particular gun to be listed on the carry permit,and
>the training to be done with that gun.
Some states don't require "training" to exercise one's Constitutional
rights.
>Some states,you can order the application package online(Florida's is
>free),containing the permit manual,fingerprint cards,shipped right to your
>mailbox.
>Some states do not allow concealed carry at all,or make it extremely
>difficult to get a permit(you have to "know somebody").
>Some require approval of a local law enforcement official,who can deny you
>on their whim.(may-issue states)
The opposite would be a "will-issue" state; the bureaucrat has no
choice but to issue a permit, given the applicant hasn't already given
up their rights.
>then there's the matter of other states "reciprocity",as carry permits are
>not always accepted in other states,the way driver's licenses are.
Pretty easy to check.
>you want a concealable handgun,and you need to consider what clothes you'll
>be wearing;that determines HOW you'll be carrying;whether in pocket,small-
>of-back holster,ankle holster,or fanny pack.
>You don't want others to notice you're armed;in some places,that's a permit
>violation resulting in revocation.
>
>KelTec and Kahr are popular small 9mm (9x19)semi-autos.
>Don't go lower than .380 auto (9x17)in caliber.
>some folks prefer revolvers,being more reliable.
I'd stick with a common caliber. Ammo for a 9mm or .38 is far cheaper
than oddball stuff. Also note that a .357 will shoot .38 ammo, so
it's a quite versatile weapon.
>Vermont,(and now Alaska)you need NO permit,carry open or concealed as you
>wish.
No permit required for either. Though Alaska has an optional permit
(for reciprocity), Vermont does not.
>It's still best to learn the applicable state laws and "when to shoot/not
>shoot",and where carriage is NOT allowed.
And learn any reciprocal state's laws you may enter too. Do *not*
forget your weapon in your briefcase when you go to the airport. ;-)
krw
I don't own a .45, but I've shot them. While a big bang, I find them
a lot easier to control than my .357 Magnum (using .357 ammo). I
rarely buy .357 ammo; too expensive and not all that fun.
As far as shooting fun goes, a .22 is a day's worth for under $20.
When I go out (it's been a long while) I shoot a *lot* more .22 than
anything else. I have two .22s, an automatic and a revolver, identical
to my .357Mag.
Ken S. Tucker
> and Wesson and let each shoot 100 rounds at targets. All three
> absolutely loved it. I wanted them to shoot a real gun, not a .22.
LOL, .22 not real, it's good enough for fun, and deadly.
I may sound like a sissy, but young women shouldn't be exposed to
Pb dust, and also loud cracks of supersonic ammo is hard on hearing.
I'd recommend an AR-7, one squeeze - one shot, 50 clips available.
Shorten the barrel, and put a combo silencer, filter on it, that'll
take
the muzzel velocity to subsonic, and suck up the Pb dust.
From that you can customize the stock to a pistol grip for gals if
that's
the option you want, but in the Olympics they usually have the benefit
of a shoulder stock for better aiming.
The AR-7 can be telescoped, like this,
http://world.guns.ru/civil/ar7-2.jpg
Here's one with a filter,
http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/attachments/other-military-firearms/12133d1215780134-air-force-guns-ar7.jpg
And a convient stock storage system,
http://10mmman.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/ar7.jpg
Here's an AR-7 with an extended clip,
http://www.rirwin.com/images/ar7pistol22elesite.jpg
A good shot will make that effective at 300 yards.
The thing I stress is NOISE, LEAD DUST and MUZZLE VELOCITY
SUPPRESION for long term safety reasons, and AMMO is cheap.
Ken
Jon Kirwan
><snip>
>Do *not*
>forget your weapon in your briefcase when you go to the airport. ;-)
hehe. Odd thing is, I carried 9 cartridges in my coat pocket right
through the airport checkpoints, about two years ago.
I was traveling from Oregon to California by air. I was kind of late
getting ready and made a bee-line to the airport. I grabbed my jacket
(I live on an active farm with coyote problems) and headed out. I was
picked up by my client at the airport and brought to my desk area
where I was to work for about a week's time down there.
It was about 9:30AM and I took off my jacket and placed it on the
chair. I noticed that the jacket was a bit heavy and I figured I'd
better dump out the pockets and put the contents in a small box so
that things didn't fall all over the place later on. In doing that I
pulled out nine fully functional cartridges for my rifle.
You can imagine my shock. That coat had been layed on the conveyor at
the airport and x-rayed. I had this sudden nightmare of what would
have happened to me has they actually noticed the bullets there. I'd
probably have been slammed in some tiny corner without representation
from a laywer until the current administration was voted out!
Anyway, since I'd only just arrived at the business and the boss there
had only just brought me in and was still standing there next to me
(he knew there was no way I could have faked this), I dumped out the
bullets for everyone to see! Nice reactions from everyone!!
As a post-script, on the return flight a week later, I took along a
new set of specialized screwdrivers, pliers and wrenches I'd seen down
in the bay area at a deep discount place for electronics miscellania.
Decided to just put it in my bags and scan it through. (I got rid of
the bullets, of course.) It was so cheap and I was willing to let
them keep it if there was a problem. No problems. Just went right
through the scanner and no one ever bothered me about it.
...
I still have NO IDEA how rifle cartridges sprawled in a coat pocket,
laid out flat and sent through their scanner, made it by. It
mystifies me -- they would have looked quite obvious, I'd imagine.
Jon
Hammy
wrote:
>Hammy <sp...@spam.com> wrote in
Actually I own several rifles 338 mag,7mm REM mag when I shoot a moose
I want to kill it not piss it off and a 222 sako,a couple of 22's and
a couple of shotguns. Got a nice fullly rigged fish and ski boat to. I
live on the great lakes. Tons of small inland lakes with in easy
driving distance.
I had rifles since I was a child.
Where I live the bush is easily accessible I hunt and fish regularly
within just out my door the lake to two hundred mile limit with a
longer excursion at least once a year.
My comment about the 9mm was from my father 35 yrs in the miltary who
goes to grayling and shares the range with the 10th mountain division
it was one of them who said the 9mm lacks stopping power. It's a
hollywood gun.
John Ferrell
<bule...@columbus.rr.com> wrote:
>I took my three daughters to the shooting range. I rented a 9mm Smith
>and Wesson and let each shoot 100 rounds at targets. All three
>absolutely loved it. I wanted them to shoot a real gun, not a .22.
>
>Anyhow, I have been thinking of buying my own handgun and getting a
>Concealed carry permit. Mostly as an exercise of citizen rights. I
>am curious , if you feel compelled to answer, if you have a carry
>permit and any thoughts on the matter and what kind of handgun to buy.
I prefer a Smith & Wesson 5 shot double action .38 revolver with a
shielded hammer. Also, the trouble free light finish saves a lot of
cleaning. It is light weight, jam proof and has a very light recoil
with lighter loads. Autos are best left to the pros who train
extensively to deal with malfunctions. The light trigger pull gives
you a chance to aim the first shot, the light recoil allows you come
back on the target in the next three shots and the hammer gives you
the smoothest possible trigger to spend your final round. According to
statistics offered in the North Carolina CCW course 85% of the rounds
fired in a gunfight miss their target. Under all circumstances, you
will be held accountable for the damages associated with those rounds.
A better home defense gun is a 12 Gauge Pump Shotgun with a barrel
that is too long to shoot yourself. No permit required in the Free
States of America. Be aware that the clean up bill after a successful
deployment inside a home is usually only about $2000.
Borrow/rent a gun & take the course first. Then think about whether
you want to take on the responsibility and risk of carrying.
Of course this is just one instructors opinion...
BTW, if you EVER point the weapon at a Law Enforcement Officer OR an
armed citizen you are volunteering to die!
John Ferrell W8CCW
Jim Yanik
news:db0oj5tr7omt6a114...@4ax.com:
I wasn't referring to you,"Hammy",but to that UK subject.
shot placement is more critical than "stopping power".
Jim Yanik
news:d6nnj59es2nm7q5un...@4ax.com:
ALMOST never jam.
You never heard of revolvers "tying up"?
Jim Yanik
wrote in news:0conj59n4lfn4s52g...@4ax.com:
he's a UK twit;he doesn't know anything about guns or self-defense.
He just has an active imagination,doesn't base anything on FACTS.
Hammy
wrote:
>
>I wasn't referring to you,"Hammy",but to that UK subject.
>
>shot placement is more critical than "stopping power".
You can have shot placement and stopping power. You just have to
practice with whatever you're using.
Snipers are using 50 cal rifles for hits out well beyond a thousand
yards.
krw
wrote:
>PeterD <pet...@hipson.net> wrote in
My .22 automatic often jams, but a lot of rimfire ammo is of pretty
poor quality.
TTman
>>shoot",and where carriage is NOT allowed.
>
> An excellent array of thoughts.
>
> Also, never ever consider just "pointing a firearm" as a means of
> ordering someone around. It's not an "authority stick." I learned
> this the hard way. When I was young and still living with my mom, a
> boyfriend of hers was pounding her with his fists (he was a fireman
> and pretty sturdy.) I had a 7.65mm Deutchverke semiauto for practice
> and I grabbed it and pointed it at him, where he'd trapped my mom
> against a wall and has hitting her and ordered him to stop. He looked
> at me and stopped. But he came right at me and I had to decide if I
> was going to pull the trigger or not. I decided I couldn't and he
> stood about one inch from my face and told me _never_ to point that at
> him again.
>
> What I learned from that was that one should _never_ point a firearm
> at a person unless it is intended to be used in the next moment. He
> could have just taken it from me and killed me with it, had he wanted
> to. It was worse than nothing and I might very well have ended up
> dead. Luckily, this situation defused away and he didn't hit my mom
> any more and I didn't wind up dead. But it could have gone any of a
> number of ways. I was just very stupid and very lucky that time.
>
Another good reason to not carry guns.... U were lucky to live to tell the
tale...
BTW we are all entitled to our opinions. Just because I'm from the UK
doesn't bar me from that.
You ( in the USA) should appreciate adn respect the freedom of speech....
TTman
> BTW, if you EVER point the weapon at a Law Enforcement Officer OR an
> armed citizen you are volunteering to die!
>
> John Ferrell W8CCW
years in prison for 'possesion' of a firearm, and that includes dummmy
guns,toy guns, bb guns etc.
Use it in a crime and that escalates to 10 yrs min. That includes using a
dummy gun.
Tough eh ?
The real problem over here is all (lots) the school kids carrying knives. It
a catch 22. they carry beacause others do.
Robert Baer
> I took my three daughters to the shooting range. I rented a 9mm Smith
> and Wesson and let each shoot 100 rounds at targets. All three
> absolutely loved it. I wanted them to shoot a real gun, not a .22.
>
> Anyhow, I have been thinking of buying my own handgun and getting a
> Concealed carry permit. Mostly as an exercise of citizen rights. I
> am curious , if you feel compelled to answer, if you have a carry
> permit and any thoughts on the matter and what kind of handgun to buy.
>
permit if it is always kept in plain sight?
Robert Baer
> "TTman" <someo...@ntlworld.com> wrote in
> news:dKK_m.15763$pV....@newsfe23.ams2:
>
>> "brent" <bule...@columbus.rr.com> wrote in message
>> news:ffc860ce-3c52-4692...@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com...
>>> and Wesson and let each shoot 100 rounds at targets. All three
>>> absolutely loved it. I wanted them to shoot a real gun, not a .22.
>>>
>>> Anyhow, I have been thinking of buying my own handgun and getting a
>>> Concealed carry permit. Mostly as an exercise of citizen rights. I
>>> am curious , if you feel compelled to answer, if you have a carry
>>> permit and any thoughts on the matter and what kind of handgun to buy.
>>>
>
> typical DA,waste-of-bandwidth answer.
>>
>>
>
> the situation warrants it. Not everyone can do that,or is willing to.
>
> a firearm in the house.
> sounds like you're already on top of that,but I had to mention it anyways.
>
> the training to be done with that gun.
> free),containing the permit manual,fingerprint cards,shipped right to your
> mailbox.
> Some states do not allow concealed carry at all,or make it extremely
> difficult to get a permit(you have to "know somebody").
> Some require approval of a local law enforcement official,who can deny you
> on their whim.(may-issue states)
>
> not always accepted in other states,the way driver's licenses are.
>
>
> be wearing;that determines HOW you'll be carrying;whether in pocket,small-
> of-back holster,ankle holster,or fanny pack.
> You don't want others to notice you're armed;in some places,that's a permit
> violation resulting in revocation.
>
> KelTec and Kahr are popular small 9mm (9x19)semi-autos.
> Don't go lower than .380 auto (9x17)in caliber.
> some folks prefer revolvers,being more reliable.
>
>
> wish.
> shoot",and where carriage is NOT allowed.
>
>
the Constitution).
Jon Kirwan
wrote:
>>>It's still best to learn the applicable state laws and "when to shoot/not
>>>shoot",and where carriage is NOT allowed.
>>
>> An excellent array of thoughts.
>>
>> Also, never ever consider just "pointing a firearm" as a means of
>> ordering someone around. It's not an "authority stick." I learned
>> this the hard way. When I was young and still living with my mom, a
>> boyfriend of hers was pounding her with his fists (he was a fireman
>> and pretty sturdy.) I had a 7.65mm Deutchverke semiauto for practice
>> and I grabbed it and pointed it at him, where he'd trapped my mom
>> against a wall and has hitting her and ordered him to stop. He looked
>> at me and stopped. But he came right at me and I had to decide if I
>> was going to pull the trigger or not. I decided I couldn't and he
>> stood about one inch from my face and told me _never_ to point that at
>> him again.
>>
>> What I learned from that was that one should _never_ point a firearm
>> at a person unless it is intended to be used in the next moment. He
>> could have just taken it from me and killed me with it, had he wanted
>> to. It was worse than nothing and I might very well have ended up
>> dead. Luckily, this situation defused away and he didn't hit my mom
>> any more and I didn't wind up dead. But it could have gone any of a
>> number of ways. I was just very stupid and very lucky that time.
>>
>
>Another good reason to not carry guns....
You are using the wrong example to try and make your point. I wasn't
carrying a firearm at the time. It was upstairs, the fight was going
on downstairs. I ran up, got the semi-auto handgun, came back down
and pointed it. My stupidity in pointing the firearm at someone had
nothing whatever to do with "carrying guns." I wasn't carrying
anything. It was merely within the home and it took me two minutes to
get it and return.
Firearms are pretty much everywhere in the US, with no end in sight.
Two doors down, my neighbor regularly fires _fully automatic_ weapons.
The police told me that it's fine with them, but that I should feel
free to call them if I hear bullets whizzing overhead or impacting in
my home! It's about like that, here. Bottom line is that one needs
to have some level of training. It's wise to assume that each and
every home has at least one or two firearms inside, somewhere. Some,
many more than that. No escaping it, so the best thing is to educate
yourself and get some training from professionals and develop some
maturity of thought about it. That doesn't come from watching TV.
>U were lucky to live to tell the tale...
Yes. On that point, I agree. Almost every other possibility would
have been worse for me. As it was, I made a very stupid mistake and
survived to learn from it.
>BTW we are all entitled to our opinions. Just because I'm from the UK
>doesn't bar me from that.
I've no idea about this comment of yours. I don't believe I said
anything about that.
>You ( in the USA) should appreciate adn respect the freedom of speech....
In the US, the most protected form of speech is political speech and
there is no doubt that expressing an opinion about private ownership
and use of firearms would be political speech. Feel free. I don't
mind.
I think the point I'd make is that in the US it makes sense to become
familiar with firearms. You don't have to be comfortable around them.
But it's probably better to know something about them and to be aware
of their prevalence here. If you plan to visit for a while, anyway. I
think they are probably as common as a refrigerator.
Jon
Jim Yanik
news:I6ednZ13QrmW5aHW...@posted.localnet:
Not in Vermont.
some states allow "open carry"(as it's called),many do not.
firearms laws vary widely from state to state.
Jim Yanik
Yes,but.....
For instance;
Florida says in their State Constitution that there's a right to keep and
bear arms,but that it doesn't allow concealed carry without a permit,but
goes on to prohibit open carry.
So,the only way you can exercise your "right" to bear arms is to pay for
permission from the State for the -privelege- of concealed carry.
Yes,it's unconstitutional.
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
>> BTW, if you EVER point the weapon at a Law Enforcement Officer OR an
>> armed citizen you are volunteering to die!
>>
>> John Ferrell W8CCW
> Bit off topic, but for those that don't know UK law, you get mandatory 5
> years in prison for 'possesion' of a firearm, and that includes dummmy
> guns,toy guns, bb guns etc.
Not true.
Only for real firearms.
PeterD
.22s are notorious for jaming, mostly because there simply isn't
enough power in the shell to work it well...
But, I'll stick to my revolver, I can get off five shots almost as
fast as someone with a semi, and bottom line: if I can't hit 'em in
five, then I deserve the results!
krw
wrote:
>>>It's still best to learn the applicable state laws and "when to shoot/not
>>>shoot",and where carriage is NOT allowed.
>>
>> An excellent array of thoughts.
>>
>> Also, never ever consider just "pointing a firearm" as a means of
>> ordering someone around. It's not an "authority stick." I learned
>> this the hard way. When I was young and still living with my mom, a
>> boyfriend of hers was pounding her with his fists (he was a fireman
>> and pretty sturdy.) I had a 7.65mm Deutchverke semiauto for practice
>> and I grabbed it and pointed it at him, where he'd trapped my mom
>> against a wall and has hitting her and ordered him to stop. He looked
>> at me and stopped. But he came right at me and I had to decide if I
>> was going to pull the trigger or not. I decided I couldn't and he
>> stood about one inch from my face and told me _never_ to point that at
>> him again.
>>
>> What I learned from that was that one should _never_ point a firearm
>> at a person unless it is intended to be used in the next moment. He
>> could have just taken it from me and killed me with it, had he wanted
>> to. It was worse than nothing and I might very well have ended up
>> dead. Luckily, this situation defused away and he didn't hit my mom
>> any more and I didn't wind up dead. But it could have gone any of a
>> number of ways. I was just very stupid and very lucky that time.
>>
>
>Another good reason to not carry guns.... U were lucky to live to tell the
>tale...
No, it's not a good reason "not to carry guns". He was stupid but
that had nothing to do with "carrying guns". He put himself in a
dangerous position unnecessarily. Yes, that's stupid.
>BTW we are all entitled to our opinions. Just because I'm from the UK
>doesn't bar me from that.
It seems it didn't. Even fools are allowed opinions.
>You ( in the USA) should appreciate adn respect the freedom of speech....
We also appreciate and respect the Second Ammendment (it's purpose is
to guarantee the First), something you obviously know nothing about.
krw
<jo...@infinitefactors.org> wrote:
>On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 18:37:07 -0600, krw <k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
>
>><snip>
>>Do *not*
>>forget your weapon in your briefcase when you go to the airport. ;-)
>
>hehe. Odd thing is, I carried 9 cartridges in my coat pocket right
>through the airport checkpoints, about two years ago.
I said it because one of the VT politicians did it, and got in a
heap-o-hurt about it.
>I was traveling from Oregon to California by air. I was kind of late
>getting ready and made a bee-line to the airport. I grabbed my jacket
>(I live on an active farm with coyote problems) and headed out. I was
>picked up by my client at the airport and brought to my desk area
>where I was to work for about a week's time down there.
>
>It was about 9:30AM and I took off my jacket and placed it on the
>chair. I noticed that the jacket was a bit heavy and I figured I'd
>better dump out the pockets and put the contents in a small box so
>that things didn't fall all over the place later on. In doing that I
>pulled out nine fully functional cartridges for my rifle.
>
>You can imagine my shock. That coat had been layed on the conveyor at
>the airport and x-rayed. I had this sudden nightmare of what would
>have happened to me has they actually noticed the bullets there. I'd
>probably have been slammed in some tiny corner without representation
>from a laywer until the current administration was voted out!
>
>Anyway, since I'd only just arrived at the business and the boss there
>had only just brought me in and was still standing there next to me
>(he knew there was no way I could have faked this), I dumped out the
>bullets for everyone to see! Nice reactions from everyone!!
You certainly were lucky! Funny story, though.
>As a post-script, on the return flight a week later, I took along a
>new set of specialized screwdrivers, pliers and wrenches I'd seen down
>in the bay area at a deep discount place for electronics miscellania.
>Decided to just put it in my bags and scan it through. (I got rid of
>the bullets, of course.) It was so cheap and I was willing to let
>them keep it if there was a problem. No problems. Just went right
>through the scanner and no one ever bothered me about it.
No one wonders about the ability of the TSA to protect air travel.
It's a great make-work program for Demonicrats, though.
>I still have NO IDEA how rifle cartridges sprawled in a coat pocket,
>laid out flat and sent through their scanner, made it by. It
>mystifies me -- they would have looked quite obvious, I'd imagine.
They may have looked, but do you think anyone saw? It is a crap job
and only the lowest forms of life would put up with it.
krw
wrote:
>Robert Baer <rober...@localnet.com> wrote in
As if that were the only unconstitutional law...
krw
wrote:
>>
>> BTW, if you EVER point the weapon at a Law Enforcement Officer OR an
>> armed citizen you are volunteering to die!
>>
>> John Ferrell W8CCW
>Bit off topic, but for those that don't know UK law, you get mandatory 5
>years in prison for 'possesion' of a firearm, and that includes dummmy
>guns,toy guns, bb guns etc.
>Use it in a crime and that escalates to 10 yrs min. That includes using a
>dummy gun.
Doesn't do you any good after you're dead.
>Tough eh ?
That you aren't allowed to protect yourself, yeah that would be tough.
>The real problem over here is all (lots) the school kids carrying knives. It
>a catch 22. they carry beacause others do.
At least they have a fighting chance. Of course school children here
are thrown out of school and criminalized for carrying tweezers.
krw
That depends entirely on the jurisdiction. Vermont, no. There are no
such gun laws (nor any permits at all, as has been mentioned). Most
other states require a concealed carry permit to carry and do not
allow open carry at all. It's commonly known as "menacing", a crime
in itself. In many CCW states one may transport an unloaded weapon
but again, this varies by state. One reason I got a CCW was to obviate
any confusion, here.
Jim Yanik
news:llppj5p8gm4jcmhh6...@4ax.com:
> On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 09:52:44 -0000, "TTman" <someo...@ntlworld.com>
> wrote:
>
>>BTW we are all entitled to our opinions. Just because I'm from the UK
>>doesn't bar me from that.
It helps if you know something about the subject.
Without factual support,opinions are just so much hot air.
>
> It seems it didn't. Even fools are allowed opinions.
>
>>You ( in the USA) should appreciate adn respect the freedom of
>>speech....
Of course you are free to spout off on what you are not knowledgable
about,but it doesn't do anything for your credibility.
People recognize it and have no respect for you.
>
> We also appreciate and respect the Second Amendment (it's purpose is
> to guarantee the First), something you obviously know nothing about.
>
--
Jim Yanik
news:puppj51h2630sdjee...@4ax.com:
I've read about people(ODCs) carrying loaded handguns onto flights(in
briefcases or purses),then discovering them when they were about to change
planes for the next leg of their trip.
I've also read about US Federal employees leaving their loaded handguns on
the seat and deplaning,the guns being found by other passengers(ODCs),and
LUCKILY,flight attendants notified.
And NO mention of any discipline of those Gov't employees.
There's an amazingly large number of gov't agencies whose employees can
carry aboard commercial flights (with credentials).
Many who have no business doing gov't business while armed.
ODC = Ordinary Decent Citizens
Jim Yanik
news:kgqpj5tl84movpfu8...@4ax.com:
> On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 10:01:00 -0000, "TTman" <someo...@ntlworld.com>
> wrote:
>
>>>
>>> BTW, if you EVER point the weapon at a Law Enforcement Officer OR an
>>> armed citizen you are volunteering to die!
>>>
>>> John Ferrell W8CCW
>>Bit off topic, but for those that don't know UK law, you get mandatory
>>5 years in prison for 'possesion' of a firearm, and that includes
>>dummmy guns,toy guns, bb guns etc.
>>Use it in a crime and that escalates to 10 yrs min. That includes
>>using a dummy gun.
So what?
that just means they become more clever at passing off or otherwise
disposing of the gun before they're caught.
In the US,it's a FEDERAL crime for any felon to have possession of a
firearm or a SINGLE round of ammo,5 year penalty for each count,in a
FEDERAL prison;
it doesn't stop them from doing it,though.
>
> Doesn't do you any good after you're dead.
>
>>Tough eh ?
>
> That you aren't allowed to protect yourself, yeah that would be tough.
>
>>The real problem over here is all (lots) the school kids carrying
>>knives. It a catch 22. they carry beacause others do.
and gang members,and other criminals. I note Beatle George Harrison was
stabbed miltiple times in his own home,nearly killing him,by a burglar.
even the QUEEN has had a home invader.
>
> At least they have a fighting chance. Of course school children here
> are thrown out of school and criminalized for carrying tweezers.
>
--
Jim Thompson
wrote:
>krw <k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote in
My brother-in-law was uniformed as US Air Force... except he really
was CIA. He was armed at all times. He breezed thru checkpoints
without so much as a glance. He said, "They always know I'll be
coming through".
He died about five years ago, supposedly of "natural causes", but
we've never been able to obtain a death certificate, and were not told
of his death for almost a year after the fact :-(
We do know that he was in Turkey a lot of the time.
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
Help save the environment!
Please dispose of socialism responsibly!
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
Lucky the burglar didn't have a gun eh?
krw
But I have three times the chance of surviving. ;-) Seriously, if I
were to carry, it would be a small revolver. A 2" Titanium/Scandium
.38, most likely. My 6" S&W 686 wouldn't be very easy to conceal. ;-)
Jim Yanik
wrote in news:eqspj5t182v1206og...@4ax.com:
Yeah,but armed Agriculture,Food and Drug,IRS,and the like??
they are NOT "LEO".
krw
How did the family clean up his affairs without a death certificate?
krw
You have it backwards, as always. BTW, burglars generally don't have
guns but know that homeowners might, so tend to shy away from occupied
homes. That is a *good* thing.
Jim Thompson
The immediate family isn't talking, and the state is sand-bagging us,
requiring "proof" that my wife was his sister. So we haven't pursued
it any further... never much liked the guy any way... bit of a horse's
ass... maybe that's why he's dead ;-)
Jim Yanik
news:8oupj55hs0ngb4kkr...@4ax.com:
that's the gist of it;
uncaring people,who don't care if someone else has a encounter with
criminals,in the belief that it somehow makes THEM safer.It doesn't.
To not fight crime allows crime to expand.Criminals become braver,go
farther and farther in their crimes.
>>>>
>>>>> The real problem over here is all (lots) the school kids carrying
>>>>> knives. It a catch 22. they carry beacause others do.
>>>
>>> and gang members,and other criminals. I note Beatle George Harrison
>>> was stabbed miltiple times in his own home,nearly killing him,by a
>>> burglar.
>>
>>Lucky the burglar didn't have a gun eh?
actually,IIRC,knife attacks are more often fatal.
Lots of people survive gunshot wounds,even multiple gun shots,and the
gunshots draw UNWANTED ATTENTION,something criminals like to avoid.
I thought burglars avoided burgling when people are at home?
That what you anti's always claim.(but it aint so)
>
> You have it backwards, as always. BTW, burglars generally don't have
> guns but know that homeowners might, so tend to shy away from occupied
> homes. That is a *good* thing.
If a "burglar" has a gun (or other weapon),they aren't burglars,but armed
robbers.
They bring weapons to DOMINATE their victims,to lessen the chances that a
victim will try to fight back,to make THEM *safer*.
that's the "In your face" violent crime,the worst sort.
>
>
"Progressives" think that the criminal will always have the advantage.
but,their thinking is always irrational.
I've read lots of examples of people using their guns to successfully
defend against home invasions and burglars,even after being shot
themselves. Old folks,particularly.
Criminals fear armed citizens.They prefer unarmed victims.
that is what prison surveys have found.
Criminals are PRO-guncontrol.
John Ferrell
wrote:
>>
Out here in the colonies (North Carolina anyway) we threw off the yoke
of tyranny with the help of a Frenchman named Lafayette many years
ago. Granted, freedom requires continual maintenance and we have
fallen behind in many areas.
I understand that the 2009 preliminary statistics indicate that gun,
ammo and large magazine sales rose sharply this year while the murder
rates fell sharply.
A favorite saying of mine is "God created man but Sam Colt made them
equal".
It has been an interesting thread but I find the first post a bit hard
to believe. 300 rounds through one handgun in one afternoon is a bit
much. Perhaps you have an oven mitt with hole for a trigger finger?
On the other hand, burning a brick of 22 Long rifles makes for a fun
afternoon.
John Ferrell W8CCW
Jon Kirwan
In Oregon, I've asked one of the policemen at Clackamas
County Sherrif's about what happens if I'm carrying a handgun
inside the car when I'm pulled over for some traffic reason.
"Should I tell them right away?" I asked. He said, "Not
unless the officer asks you, specifically. Otherwise, I'd
just avoid bringing it up."
I've had no problem bringing in a handgun case into the
Sherrif's office with an unloaded handgun inside and
cartridges in clips within the same case, for a quick
question I had regarding their firing range. (They restrict
what may be fired there.) They didn't flick an eye when I
opened the case to ask. Pretty routine, I guess. They gave
me an answer and I walked out, getting a cup of their coffee
and some pastries on the way.
Quite a contrast against British circumstances discussed in a
link that was posted to this group, earlier:
http://www.thisissurreytoday.co.uk/news/Ex-soldier-faces-jail-handing-gun/article-1509082-detail/article.html
There's a new update on it:
http://www.thisissurreytoday.co.uk/news/GUN-SOLDIER-WALKS-FREE-COURT/article-1626207-detail/article.html
Jon
Ken S. Tucker
>
> There's a new update on it:http://www.thisissurreytoday.co.uk/news/GUN-SOLDIER-WALKS-FREE-COURT/...
> Jon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blowgun#Legality
"In the US State of California, blowguns are illegal.[3] They are also
illegal in Massachusetts, Washington, DC, and New York City, but are
legal elsewhere for adults over the age of 18 to possess.[4]"
A pea-shooter is a blowgun, so is a straw, a straw in a Coke is
a semi-concealed weaponed,... a cop says drop that Coke now,
or we'll shoot, to a 6 yo.
Ken
brent
wrote:
> On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 10:01:00 -0000, "TTman" <someone...@ntlworld.com>
I have found the post to be highly informative. To clarify, I took
each girl to the range separately on three different days. Nobody's
trigger finger was fatigued, but my wallet was starting to get a
little fatigued, but well worth it.
John Ferrell
<bule...@columbus.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>> I understand that the 2009 preliminary statistics indicate that gun,
>> ammo and large magazine sales rose sharply this year while the murder
>> rates fell sharply.
>>
>> A favorite saying of mine is "God created man but Sam Colt made them
>> equal".
>>
>> It has been an interesting thread but I find the first post a bit hard
>> to believe. 300 rounds through one handgun in one afternoon is a bit
>> much. Perhaps you have an oven mitt with hole for a trigger finger?
>>
>> On the other hand, burning a brick of 22 Long rifles makes for a fun
>> afternoon.
>>
>> John Ferrell W8CCW
>
>I have found the post to be highly informative. To clarify, I took
>each girl to the range separately on three different days. Nobody's
>trigger finger was fatigued, but my wallet was starting to get a
>little fatigued, but well worth it.
You did well!
They are at least gun aware and are prepared to make rational
decisions in the future based on experience rather than social
pressures.
John Ferrell W8CCW
krw
<jferr...@triad.rr.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 1 Jan 2010 06:29:02 -0800 (PST), brent
><bule...@columbus.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
>>>
>>> I understand that the 2009 preliminary statistics indicate that gun,
>>> ammo and large magazine sales rose sharply this year while the murder
>>> rates fell sharply.
>>>
>>> A favorite saying of mine is "God created man but Sam Colt made them
>>> equal".
>>>
>>> It has been an interesting thread but I find the first post a bit hard
>>> to believe. 300 rounds through one handgun in one afternoon is a bit
>>> much. Perhaps you have an oven mitt with hole for a trigger finger?
>>>
>>> On the other hand, burning a brick of 22 Long rifles makes for a fun
>>> afternoon.
A brick is 500 or 550. Not a problem, on top of a hundred or so .38s
and .357s. ;-) A brick is going for about $15 (up from $8 or so) so
it's a pretty cheap afternoon, at that.
A few years ago, a friend brought a Ruger 1022 with a 250 round
magazine to the range. He'd made a cam with a crank that fit into the
trigger guard. It didn't take long to go through a half a brick. ;-)
>>> John Ferrell W8CCW
>>
>>I have found the post to be highly informative. To clarify, I took
>>each girl to the range separately on three different days. Nobody's
>>trigger finger was fatigued, but my wallet was starting to get a
>>little fatigued, but well worth it.
>
>You did well!
>They are at least gun aware and are prepared to make rational
>decisions in the future based on experience rather than social
>pressures.
Hear! Hear!
krw
That seems to be a big question. Before talking to you, he likely
already knows that you have a CCW. He should assume that you're
carrying, so as long as you don't do anything stupid that should work.
I've seen other recommend that you offer the location of the weapon so
he doesn't get jumpy.
>I've had no problem bringing in a handgun case into the
>Sherrif's office with an unloaded handgun inside and
>cartridges in clips within the same case, for a quick
>question I had regarding their firing range. (They restrict
>what may be fired there.) They didn't flick an eye when I
>opened the case to ask. Pretty routine, I guess. They gave
>me an answer and I walked out, getting a cup of their coffee
>and some pastries on the way.
Their firing range? What a nice Sherriff's office you have there!
Many would shoot you for touching their Dunkin' Donuts. ;-)
>Quite a contrast against British circumstances discussed in a
>link that was posted to this group, earlier:
>http://www.thisissurreytoday.co.uk/news/Ex-soldier-faces-jail-handing-gun/article-1509082-detail/article.html
What do you expect? Shepards shear sheep.
>There's a new update on it:
>http://www.thisissurreytoday.co.uk/news/GUN-SOLDIER-WALKS-FREE-COURT/article-1626207-detail/article.html
Just amazing. ...and he gets a suspended sentence.
TTman
>>Quite a contrast against British circumstances discussed in a
>>link that was posted to this group, earlier:
>>http://www.thisissurreytoday.co.uk/news/Ex-soldier-faces-jail-handing-gun/article-1509082-detail/article.html
>
> What do you expect? Shepards shear sheep.
>
>>There's a new update on it:
>>http://www.thisissurreytoday.co.uk/news/GUN-SOLDIER-WALKS-FREE-COURT/article-1626207-detail/article.html
>
> Just amazing. ...and he gets a suspended sentence.
Just show what a bunch of shit heads we have for police/CP ( crown
prosecution) and Judges.
If there was any justice, he should have been given an absolute discharge
and a pat on the back for being a good upright citizen...
'Absolute discharge' is given for 'technical guilt' but morally/socially
innocent, if you get my drift...
A bit like the judge saying ' what a total waste of time bringing this
prosection'...... but , of course, he/she is not allowed to say that .
krw
wrote:
>>
>>>Quite a contrast against British circumstances discussed in a
>>>link that was posted to this group, earlier:
>>>http://www.thisissurreytoday.co.uk/news/Ex-soldier-faces-jail-handing-gun/article-1509082-detail/article.html
>>
>> What do you expect? Shepards shear sheep.
>>
>>>There's a new update on it:
>>>http://www.thisissurreytoday.co.uk/news/GUN-SOLDIER-WALKS-FREE-COURT/article-1626207-detail/article.html
>>
>> Just amazing. ...and he gets a suspended sentence.
>
>Just show what a bunch of shit heads we have for police/CP ( crown
>prosecution) and Judges.
Which proves the point. You are a nation of sheep just waiting to be
shorn.
>If there was any justice, he should have been given an absolute discharge
>and a pat on the back for being a good upright citizen...
If there was any justice he never would have been charged with so much
as jaywalking.
>'Absolute discharge' is given for 'technical guilt' but morally/socially
>innocent, if you get my drift...
Official "jury nullification".
>A bit like the judge saying ' what a total waste of time bringing this
>prosection'...... but , of course, he/she is not allowed to say that .
Why not? Slap the prosecutor silly, too. He should serve the
sentence for malfeasance.
Ken S. Tucker
> I took my three daughters to the shooting range. I rented a 9mm Smith
> and Wesson and let each shoot 100 rounds at targets. All three
> absolutely loved it. I wanted them to shoot a real gun, not a .22.
>
> Anyhow, I have been thinking of buying my own handgun and getting a
> Concealed carry permit. Mostly as an exercise of citizen rights. I
> am curious , if you feel compelled to answer, if you have a carry
> permit and any thoughts on the matter and what kind of handgun to buy.
Ok, I posted previously about a filter, (also silencer), check this,
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5423a1.htm
That's a gov warning, from cdc. Personally I like the odor of Gun
Smoke,
but it's not good for me, so be aware of that insidious danger,
especially
for young gals.
Best
Ken
John Ferrell
>
>A few years ago, a friend brought a Ruger 1022 with a 250 round
>magazine to the range. He'd made a cam with a crank that fit into the
>trigger guard. It didn't take long to go through a half a brick. ;-)
>>>> John Ferrell W8CCW
>>>
>>>I have found the post to be highly informative. To clarify, I took
>>>each girl to the range separately on three different days. Nobody's
>>>trigger finger was fatigued, but my wallet was starting to get a
>>>little fatigued, but well worth it.
>>
>>You did well!
>>They are at least gun aware and are prepared to make rational
>>decisions in the future based on experience rather than social
>>pressures.
>
>Hear! Hear!
The Ruger 1022... it has to be one of the most popular guns of all
time! I have more fun shooting mine than any of the other guns. I have
the scope on mine mounted high enough that the iron sights are usable
underneath.
I don't often fire it but my number one gun is the .30 caliber M1 that
was manufactured by IBM. Truly a "Business Machine for War".
The sport models of the AK-47 are a lot of fun too. Not as hard to
handle and clean as most bigger guns yet plenty of punch. It was more
fun when we were paying a nick le a round for ammo though!
The SKS is fun to shoot and used to be pretty cheap. I have not fired
mine it several years. Just too much trouble to clean...
John Ferrell W8CCW
krw
<jferr...@triad.rr.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 01 Jan 2010 11:27:43 -0600, krw <k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>A few years ago, a friend brought a Ruger 1022 with a 250 round
>>magazine to the range. He'd made a cam with a crank that fit into the
>>trigger guard. It didn't take long to go through a half a brick. ;-)
>>>>> John Ferrell W8CCW
>>>>
>>>>I have found the post to be highly informative. To clarify, I took
>>>>each girl to the range separately on three different days. Nobody's
>>>>trigger finger was fatigued, but my wallet was starting to get a
>>>>little fatigued, but well worth it.
>>>
>>>You did well!
>>>They are at least gun aware and are prepared to make rational
>>>decisions in the future based on experience rather than social
>>>pressures.
>>
>>Hear! Hear!
>The Ruger 1022... it has to be one of the most popular guns of all
>time! I have more fun shooting mine than any of the other guns. I have
>the scope on mine mounted high enough that the iron sights are usable
>underneath.
My S&W 617 is a lot of fun to shoot, too. I've been thinking about
buying a 1022, but don't really have anywhere to shoot it now. I was
also thinking about an AR-15 bored out for .22LR. They're a tad
expensive, but it would freak the gun grabbers. ;-)
>I don't often fire it but my number one gun is the .30 caliber M1 that
>was manufactured by IBM. Truly a "Business Machine for War".
I'd *love* to have one of those. I saw the range (really a hole in
the wall) where they were test fired. It's since been buried under
another building. They were supposed to have saved it as a historic
site, but don't know how that worked out.
>The sport models of the AK-47 are a lot of fun too. Not as hard to
>handle and clean as most bigger guns yet plenty of punch. It was more
>fun when we were paying a nick le a round for ammo though!
Tell me about it. The stuff has gone out of sight, when you can get
it.
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
From two paces anyone with a knife in their hand and the determination
to use it will generally manage to stab anyone with a handgun unless you
hit them with a headshot or sever the spine. In a confined space there's
not much difference in effectiveness.
Most decent knives will also go through kevlar body armor.
> I thought burglars avoided burgling when people are at home?
> That what you anti's always claim.(but it aint so)
That tends to be the case in the UK
JosephKK
>John Larkin wrote:
>> On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 15:55:45 -0000, "TTman" <someo...@ntlworld.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> "brent" <bule...@columbus.rr.com> wrote in message
>>> news:ffc860ce-3c52-4692...@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com...
>>>> I took my three daughters to the shooting range. I rented a 9mm Smith
>>>> and Wesson and let each shoot 100 rounds at targets. All three
>>>> absolutely loved it. I wanted them to shoot a real gun, not a .22.
>>>>
>>>> Anyhow, I have been thinking of buying my own handgun and getting a
>>>> Concealed carry permit. Mostly as an exercise of citizen rights. I
>>>> am curious , if you feel compelled to answer, if you have a carry
>>>> permit and any thoughts on the matter and what kind of handgun to buy.
>>>>
>>> Ask Clint Eastwood.... lol
>>>
>>
>> The kick from a Dirty Harry gun would knock the kids over. I had a
>> Ruger Police Special and if I fired 38 magnums I'd probably have
>> trouble getting off a second shot when it mattered. 45's are worse.
>
>A good point.
>I usually envision a fairly strong man shooting two handed. A weak
>person with a limp wrist will have the gun behind the back of their head
>after the first shot.
I have fired a few handguns and rifles. US Military .45 ACP ain't so bad.
Some of the magnum revolvers will break your hand/wrist if you do not respect
them. Automatics have a little less recoil usually. The first time i erred
about recoil with a pistol i nearly smacked myself in the forehead. It was
the last time as well.
JosephKK
>>
>> BTW, if you EVER point the weapon at a Law Enforcement Officer OR an
>> armed citizen you are volunteering to die!
>>
>> John Ferrell W8CCW
>Bit off topic, but for those that don't know UK law, you get mandatory 5
>years in prison for 'possesion' of a firearm, and that includes dummmy
>guns,toy guns, bb guns etc.
>Use it in a crime and that escalates to 10 yrs min. That includes using a
>dummy gun.
>Tough eh ?
>The real problem over here is all (lots) the school kids carrying knives. It
>a catch 22. they carry beacause others do.
>
Close, but no cigar. They carry because you do not make the schools safe.
JosephKK
And worst of all far too many of them vote.
John Ferrell
"JosephKK"<quiett...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>I usually envision a fairly strong man shooting two handed. A weak
>>person with a limp wrist will have the gun behind the back of their head
>>after the first shot.
>
>I have fired a few handguns and rifles. US Military .45 ACP ain't so bad.
>Some of the magnum revolvers will break your hand/wrist if you do not respect
>them. Automatics have a little less recoil usually. The first time i erred
>about recoil with a pistol i nearly smacked myself in the forehead. It was
>the last time as well.
I used to work with a fella that had a Ruger 44 Magnum. He said it
cost less to shoot than any of his other guns. 6 rounds and he was
done with it for another year!
John Ferrell W8CCW
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
Give a beginner one of those and it will teach them all the features of
being totally gunshy.
krw
I suppose he never amortized the total cost of ownership over the
number of rounds fired. ;-)