Rigol oscilloscope prices have sky-rocketed!
David L. Jones
on eBay (and other places), with them being around the US$400 mark or less
for some time now from countless ebay sellers, the price has suddenly jumped
up to US$550 or more from all sellers. There has also been a sudden and
drastic reduction in the number of sellers for this scope.
I've heard that one ebay seller has been acused of "dumping" the scope at
low prices by another seller and has had their listings removed.
and a quote from a cancelled ebay listing:
"We'd like to let you know that eBay has ended an item you were bidding on
for breaching of one or more of our policies. As it's important that eBay
maintains member privacy, we can't tell you exactly why the listing was
removed."
Dealextreme still have them for US$400 though, better get in quick...
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.30573
Dave.
--
---------------------------------------------
Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog & Podcast:
http://www.eevblog.com
mi...@sushi.com
> After 12 months or so of steady decline on prices of the Rigol DS1052E scope
> on eBay (and other places), with them being around the US$400 mark or less
> for some time now from countless ebay sellers, the price has suddenly jumped
> up to US$550 or more from all sellers. There has also been a sudden and
> drastic reduction in the number of sellers for this scope.
>
> I've heard that one ebay seller has been acused of "dumping" the scope at
> low prices by another seller and has had their listings removed.
>
> and a quote from a cancelled ebay listing:
> "We'd like to let you know that eBay has ended an item you were bidding on
> for breaching of one or more of our policies. As it's important that eBay
> maintains member privacy, we can't tell you exactly why the listing was
> removed."
>
>
> Dave.
>
> --
> ---------------------------------------------
> Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog & Podcast:http://www.eevblog.com
My Tek DSO, which granted is a boat anchor, was a bit more than half
the price of that Rigol. I think for a bench scope, I'd just get a
used Tek. If the Rigol offered 12V operation, I'd consider it. I've
been looking at PC "pod" scopes. I'm not convinced a Chinese HP clone
(OK, ODM) is really going to be much better than a Chinese PC scope.
I was thinking of the Bitscope 100u, mostly because it is isolated
from the PC (less hash) and they support Linux. I have a great
distrust of Windows and USB due to driver issues.
Jan Panteltje
"mi...@sushi.com" <mi...@sushi.com> wrote in
<b1b6edcc-fbeb-439e...@a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>:
>I was thinking of the Bitscope 100u, mostly because it is isolated
>from the PC (less hash) and they support Linux. I have a great
>distrust of Windows and USB due to driver issues.
That seems to be only 40 meg samples / second.
Phil Hobbs
> After 12 months or so of steady decline on prices of the Rigol DS1052E scope
> on eBay (and other places), with them being around the US$400 mark or less
> for some time now from countless ebay sellers, the price has suddenly jumped
> up to US$550 or more from all sellers. There has also been a sudden and
> drastic reduction in the number of sellers for this scope.
>
> I've heard that one ebay seller has been acused of "dumping" the scope at
> low prices by another seller and has had their listings removed.
>
> and a quote from a cancelled ebay listing:
> "We'd like to let you know that eBay has ended an item you were bidding on
> for breaching of one or more of our policies. As it's important that eBay
> maintains member privacy, we can't tell you exactly why the listing was
> removed."
>
> Dealextreme still have them for US$400 though, better get in quick...
> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.30573
>
> Dave.
>
Well, you've been praising them to the skies on your wildly successful
blog, so what do you expect? It's sort of like Oprah's Book Club. ;)
Happy New Year
Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal
ElectroOptical Innovations
55 Orchard Rd
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058
hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net
Jamie
> After 12 months or so of steady decline on prices of the Rigol DS1052E scope
> on eBay (and other places), with them being around the US$400 mark or less
> for some time now from countless ebay sellers, the price has suddenly jumped
> up to US$550 or more from all sellers. There has also been a sudden and
> drastic reduction in the number of sellers for this scope.
>
> I've heard that one ebay seller has been acused of "dumping" the scope at
> low prices by another seller and has had their listings removed.
>
> and a quote from a cancelled ebay listing:
> "We'd like to let you know that eBay has ended an item you were bidding on
> for breaching of one or more of our policies. As it's important that eBay
> maintains member privacy, we can't tell you exactly why the listing was
> removed."
>
> Dealextreme still have them for US$400 though, better get in quick...
> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.30573
>
> Dave.
>
http://www.getbetterlife.com/rigol-ds1052e-50mhz-oscilloscope-color-monitor-1gsa-usb-dso_p797.html?gclid=CKqsvaPjg58CFRh15QodZWM20w
--
"I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy"
"Daily Thought:
SOME PEOPLE ARE LIKE SLINKIES. NOT REALLY GOOD FOR ANYTHING BUT
THEY BRING A SMILE TO YOUR FACE WHEN PUSHED DOWN THE STAIRS.
http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"
PeterD
>> After 12 months or so of steady decline on prices of the Rigol DS1052E scope
>> on eBay (and other places), with them being around the US$400 mark or less
>> for some time now from countless ebay sellers, the price has suddenly jumped
>> up to US$550 or more from all sellers. There has also been a sudden and
>> drastic reduction in the number of sellers for this scope.
>>
>> I've heard that one ebay seller has been acused of "dumping" the scope at
>> low prices by another seller and has had their listings removed.
'Dumping' doesn't exist on eBay, and they don't remove listings just
because someone lists for less than their competitors.
>>
>> and a quote from a cancelled ebay listing:
>> "We'd like to let you know that eBay has ended an item you were bidding on
>> for breaching of one or more of our policies. As it's important that eBay
>> maintains member privacy, we can't tell you exactly why the listing was
>> removed."
The only way to find out, is to ask the seller then. But price was not
the issue. It could have been almost anything, but since when eBay
canceles a listing, the entire listing is deleted, there is no way for
anyoneto go back and review it to see why.
As to the slight jump in prices, that's likely just market effects.
David L. Jones
Someone on my eevblog forum did ask a seller and the rely was:
<quote>
"Hello, Please don't worry, the problem is, an another seller has complaint
by ebay that i'm selling the rigol oscilloscopes at a dumping price"
He then offered to complete the original low price transaction outside of
ebay.
> As to the slight jump in prices, that's likely just market effects.
With an almost 40% jump in price and drastic reduction in the number of low
cost sellers, all of it practically overnight, that ain't just market forces
at work. Something has happened.
Jon Kirwan
<jamie_ka1lpa_not_v...@charter.net> wrote:
>$362.90 here
I see $411.96.
Jon
Jon Kirwan
Oh, never mind. I didn't look to the right side.
Jon
Hammy
<alt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>With an almost 40% jump in price and drastic reduction in the number of low
>cost sellers, all of it practically overnight, that ain't just market forces
>at work. Something has happened.
>
>Dave.
One of the primary reasons they are so attractive is the price. If
they increase too much sales will plummet. There's always another
cheap DSO Owen comes to mind.
Fortunately for us the entry level DSO market is flooded and very
competitive.
They could just be seeing what the market will bear. That can
backfire.
This assumes its even coming from head office or maybe there's a large
conspiracy of distributors to artificially inflate the price ;).
A year ago some gas retailers in Ontario where caught price fixing so
it may not be all that far fetched.
mi...@sushi.com
> On a sunny day (Fri, 1 Jan 2010 05:57:24 -0800 (PST)) it happened
> <b1b6edcc-fbeb-439e-bd13-7a2f3b8f8...@a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>:
>
> >I was thinking of the Bitscope 100u, mostly because it is isolated
> >from the PC (less hash) and they support Linux. I have a great
> >distrust of Windows and USB due to driver issues.
>
> That seems to be only 40 meg samples / second.
Yes, not a great scope, but I have real bench equipment. I have
nothing 12V portable. The Rigol doesn't buy me anything that I can't
get with a used Tek DSO. The 40MHz limit would be fine for my
portable purposes.
Jamie
You looked at the wrong model, that was to the right in small icon
the one I looked at was down the page a bit in full view.
I really don't think they would give me a different price.
I just did a check with Netscrap a IE, this is strange, Netscrap
does not even show URL after a google search for "DS1052e", IE
does show it as the first one in the list and the price is
full view is still $362.90 "12%" off. That's whole sale price..
I really don't think they're feeling sorry for me and giving me
a break!
gcd
I think the problem may be that an aus distributor may be complaining to
rigol that international sales are infringing on local sales. One US
distributor refuses to sell to aus due to such an issue.
Greg
"David L. Jones" <alt...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:xwi%m.87$Wl...@newsfe11.iad...
Greegor
You said the seller wrote to somebody:
> <quote>
> "Hello, Please don't worry, the problem is, an another seller has complaint
> by ebay that i'm selling the rigol oscilloscopes at a dumping price"
> He then offered to complete the original low price transaction outside of
> ebay.
Has it occurred to you that this is exactly the kind of story
that an ejected SCAMMER would tell to rope in a few
more suckers to send them money outside
of the aggressive protection of eBay/Paypal?
How would you know if the seller is a SCAMMER or not?
David L. Jones
Could be, but not my problem, I'm just passing on what was said.
Buyer-beware, as always.
If you are worried then buy from DealExtreme or some other known non-ebay
seller.
Remember, this is not a one-off seller thing, dozens and dozens of
(legitimate) ebay sellers of this scope have suddenly dissapeared. There is
somethign else going on. I have not heard of a single case of anyone being
scammed on a Rigol scope, and I can tell you I get a lot of feedback on this
issue though my blog. Doesn't mean it's safe of course.
> How would you know if the seller is a SCAMMER or not?
Err, not too hard. If the seller has a rep of selling the same gear
previously (ebay and other forum history can show that), and most of the
sellers have suddenly disappeared (presumably) due to ebay pulling their
auctions for some competive(?) reason, then it's more probable than not the
seller is not a scammer, they are just caught up in whatever is happening
here.
mi...@sushi.com
Ebay exists to collect fees. They don't care who is selling the item
as long as they get their cut. I suspect Rigol stopped supplying these
dealers. They have a right not to sell to any dealer they don't like.
Jan Panteltje
"mi...@sushi.com" <mi...@sushi.com> wrote in
<13bba92c-7810-4018...@m25g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>:
A 12V to 240V converter that easily powers a scope plus some other stuff,
with a plug that fits the cigatette lighter is only 35 Euro or less here.
http://www.gelders.org/start.php?voedingen_en_transformatoren_spanningsomvormers_12v-230v.php
John Devereux
Manufacturers *are* able to excert pressure on them somehow. A friend of
mine came home from the USA with 3 new PS3's just after they were
released there. He put them up on ebay, but the listing was removed
since it was "illegal" to sell them.
--
John Devereux
mi...@sushi.com
> On a sunny day (Fri, 1 Jan 2010 16:44:59 -0800 (PST)) it happened
> <13bba92c-7810-4018-8af9-62277a0aa...@m25g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>:
>
> >On Jan 1, 7:01 am, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> On a sunny day (Fri, 1 Jan 2010 05:57:24 -0800 (PST)) it happened
> >> "m...@sushi.com" <m...@sushi.com> wrote in
> >> <b1b6edcc-fbeb-439e-bd13-7a2f3b8f8...@a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>:
>
> >> >I was thinking of the Bitscope 100u, mostly because it is isolated
> >> >from the PC (less hash) and they support Linux. I have a great
> >> >distrust of Windows and USB due to driver issues.
>
> >> That seems to be only 40 meg samples / second.
>
> >Yes, not a great scope, but I have real bench equipment. I have
> >nothing 12V portable. The Rigol doesn't buy me anything that I can't
> >get with a used Tek DSO. The 40MHz limit would be fine for my
> >portable purposes.
>
> A 12V to 240V converter that easily powers a scope plus some other stuff,
> with a plug that fits the cigatette lighter is only 35 Euro or less here.
Those "modified sine" inverters are death to electronics, and
certainly to measurements since they radiate RF hash. A true sine is
substantially more money.
mi...@sushi.com
I'd like to see the paper trail on this. I think there is more to the
story. I see stuff sold on ebay that I know has serious security
concerns regarding export. [There is a New Mexico vendor that is
pulling gear out of Los Alamos.] I see copyrighted literature put on
CDs and sold, such as those electronics manuals that the manufacturer
provides for free but arseholes put on CD to sell to stupid customers.
I just don't believe ebay polices their sales to the degree you are
inferring. Probably Sony told ebay the goods are counterfeit.
Spehro Pefhany
<mi...@sushi.com> wrote:
>On Jan 2, 7:08锟絘m, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On a sunny day (Fri, 1 Jan 2010 16:44:59 -0800 (PST)) it happened
>> "m...@sushi.com" <m...@sushi.com> wrote in
>> <13bba92c-7810-4018-8af9-62277a0aa...@m25g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>:
>>
>> >On Jan 1, 7:01锟絘m, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >> On a sunny day (Fri, 1 Jan 2010 05:57:24 -0800 (PST)) it happened
>> >> "m...@sushi.com" <m...@sushi.com> wrote in
>> >> <b1b6edcc-fbeb-439e-bd13-7a2f3b8f8...@a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>:
>>
>> >> >I was thinking of the Bitscope 100u, mostly because it is isolated
>> >> >from the PC (less hash) and they support Linux. I have a great
>> >> >distrust of Windows and USB due to driver issues.
>>
>> >> That seems to be only 40 meg samples / second.
>>
>> >Yes, not a great scope, but I have real bench equipment. I have
>> >nothing 12V portable. The Rigol doesn't buy me anything that I can't
>> >get with a used Tek DSO. 锟絋he 40MHz limit would be fine for my
>> >portable purposes.
>>
>> A 12V to 240V converter that easily powers a scope plus some other stuff,
>> with a plug that fits the cigatette lighter is only 35 Euro or less here.
>> 锟絟ttp://www.gelders.org/start.php?voedingen_en_transformatoren_spannin...
>
>Those "modified sine" inverters are death to electronics, and
>certainly to measurements since they radiate RF hash. A true sine is
>substantially more money.
Have you actually had them damage anything? I've run chargers for
multiple laptops, cellphones, iPods, etc. as well as solder stations
and other stuff from them without problems, though I do worry. Both
the peak and RMS volages are close enough that it shouldn't bother
electronics (aside from the potential EMC issue).
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
sp...@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
David L. Jones
Ebay do nothing until someone complains. Then the bigger you are, the more
your complaint is taken seriously.
Ebay like to do stuff that shows the industries and government that they
care about the law and that they are in control, when in fact they don't
give a toss because they make money on everything of course. But they know
they have to be seen to be doing something at least some of the time.
Mike Harrison
Almost everything these days has a SMPS, and so will tolerate anything from DC to any sort of
waveform that rectifies to DC in the right range. "True sine' would be a waste of money.
Spehro Pefhany
eBay enforcement is based on complaints.. which could come from
competitors, or the mfrs like Sony. You can bet they take any
complaint from companies like Sony and Disney very seriously.
Jon Kirwan
Sounds exactly like credit card companies.
Jon
krw
I love credit card companies. They let me use their money and give me
free money for the privilege. They also make it hand to buy stuff
online. What's not to like?
Spehro Pefhany
They charge merchants a significant fee and force the merchants
contractually to not advertise higher prices for CC purchases. Just
like a 2-3% hidden tax. Sometimes you can wangle a bit of a it back as
a rebate (in cash or airline miles).
But they probably make up for it macro-economically by stimulating the
weak and/or stupid to overspend, so I guess they're not all bad.
kreed
wrote:
> On Sat, 2 Jan 2010 13:26:44 -0800 (PST), the renowned "m...@sushi.com"
>
>
>
> <m...@sushi.com> wrote:
> >On Jan 2, 7:08 am, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> On a sunny day (Fri, 1 Jan 2010 16:44:59 -0800 (PST)) it happened
> >> "m...@sushi.com" <m...@sushi.com> wrote in
> >> <13bba92c-7810-4018-8af9-62277a0aa...@m25g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>:
>
> >> >On Jan 1, 7:01 am, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >> On a sunny day (Fri, 1 Jan 2010 05:57:24 -0800 (PST)) it happened
> >> >> "m...@sushi.com" <m...@sushi.com> wrote in
> >> >> <b1b6edcc-fbeb-439e-bd13-7a2f3b8f8...@a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>:
>
> >> >> >I was thinking of the Bitscope 100u, mostly because it is isolated
> >> >> >from the PC (less hash) and they support Linux. I have a great
> >> >> >distrust of Windows and USB due to driver issues.
>
> >> >> That seems to be only 40 meg samples / second.
>
> >> >Yes, not a great scope, but I have real bench equipment. I have
> >> >nothing 12V portable. The Rigol doesn't buy me anything that I can't
> >> >get with a used Tek DSO. The 40MHz limit would be fine for my
> >> >portable purposes.
>
> >> A 12V to 240V converter that easily powers a scope plus some other stuff,
> >> with a plug that fits the cigatette lighter is only 35 Euro or less here.
> >> http://www.gelders.org/start.php?voedingen_en_transformatoren_spannin...
>
> >Those "modified sine" inverters are death to electronics, and
> >certainly to measurements since they radiate RF hash. A true sine is
> >substantially more money.
>
> multiple laptops, cellphones, iPods, etc. as well as solder stations
> and other stuff from them without problems, though I do worry. Both
> the peak and RMS volages are close enough that it shouldn't bother
> electronics (aside from the potential EMC issue).
>
> Best regards,
> Spehro Pefhany
> --
> "it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
> sp...@interlog.com Info for manufacturers:http://www.trexon.com
> Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
2 problems I have had with modified sine wave inverters on electronic
equipment
1. - They won't run my Dewalt cordless drill charger (comes on but
wont put a noticeable charge into the battery),
I think that they use a series capacitor type power supply
(transformerless).
2. - Blew the mains fuse in my ERSA temperature controlled iron (has
50hz transformer).
I see no reason that a pure sine wave unit wouldnt work fine though.
Modified sine wave should work ok with 240v soldering irons (240v
element, no transformer) or switchmode power supplies. I would
however test these thoroughly before taking into the field.
Jon Kirwan
I do the same thing, just not VISA or MC, anymore. Problem
is, they still make a lot of money on fraud. For VISA, for
example, credit is issued by some bank or credit union ...
not some big VISA-in-the-sky. When there is a dispute, it's
between you and those who issued the credit and VISA makes
money no matter what takes place. So everything makes them
money, fraud included. Hence, no motivation to provide
helpful services like, for instance, the address and location
of some vendor you are certain is fraudulent. They pretty
much don't care.
American Express is a little different. They both issue the
credit _and_ do the transaction work. So they retain a
personal, financial interest in fraud cases. And they seem
to demonstrate that difference, at least to me.
Jon
Joerg
I was thinking about trying Amex again myself. Problem is, many dealers
don't seem to accept them these days. Possibly because of their high fees.
--
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com/
"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.
Jon Kirwan
Yes, that was the exact same story that kept me from using
them, as well. Now, I'm simply fed up with VISA profiting
from fraud and not caring one way or another; and my local
bank pretending to be impotent. Amex wins, hands down, in
cases like this -- probably because it is all under one roof
instead of broken up with each hand washing the other.
Jon
krw
They can offer discounts for cash, however. Most don't because they
don't need to.
>like a 2-3% hidden tax. Sometimes you can wangle a bit of a it back as
>a rebate (in cash or airline miles).
The 2-3% can often be made up in increased sales. Like a tax, it
really comes out of operating expenses. Everyone pays them, so it's a
race to zero margin.
>But they probably make up for it macro-economically by stimulating the
>weak and/or stupid to overspend, so I guess they're not all bad.
Well...
krw
<jo...@infinitefactors.org> wrote:
You have this all inside-out. Ov course Visa/MC don't care, they're a
bank holding company. Your issuing bank sure cares about fraud.
Report it to them, they'll sure care. It *does* cost them.
>American Express is a little different. They both issue the
>credit _and_ do the transaction work. So they retain a
>personal, financial interest in fraud cases. And they seem
>to demonstrate that difference, at least to me.
I have an AmEx and a Visa that both pay my 1% (on everything, more on
some things). I bought my Unisaw with a year's kickbacks on the Visa
(we bought some expensive stuff during the teaser months - by
design ;). I just got two gift cards from AmEx. Works for me.
krw
wrote:
>Jon Kirwan wrote:
I don't know what the fee deal is anymore, but this is a thing of the
past. My AmEx is taken just about everywhere now. I can't remember
the last time it was refused.
mi...@sushi.com
> Jon Kirwan wrote:
> > On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 18:55:14 -0600, krw
> > <k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
>
> >> On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 16:32:43 -0800, Jon Kirwan
> >> <j...@infinitefactors.org> wrote:
>
> >>> On Sun, 3 Jan 2010 09:33:06 +1100, "David L. Jones"
If you are a Costco member, just get their free card. [Free is
relative since you have to pay to join Costco, but you get 4% back off
any gas purchase other than from SAMs, so over a year you easily get
your fee back.]
mi...@sushi.com
> On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 18:18:14 -0800, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >Jon Kirwan wrote:
> >> On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 18:55:14 -0600, krw
> >> <k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
>
> >>> On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 16:32:43 -0800, Jon Kirwan
> >>> <j...@infinitefactors.org> wrote:
>
> >>>> On Sun, 3 Jan 2010 09:33:06 +1100, "David L. Jones"
Fastrip gas stations are the only place I've run into that doesn't
take Amex. [Fry's added it about 2 years ago.]
http://www.fastrip.com/
My solution: If I see a Fastrip, go elsewhere.
mi...@sushi.com
wrote:
> On Sat, 2 Jan 2010 13:34:39 -0800 (PST), the renowned "m...@sushi.com"
There has to be some justification in the complaint. For instance, if
Sony says the seller has bad breath, ebay probably won't stop the
sale. Counterfeit goods, advertising used as new, etc, would probably
do the trick. Like I said, we need to get the whole story. Note that
ebay doesn't exactly want to get the so-called illegal seller all
pissed off either.
Case in point are radio scanners that are not legal to be sold as new
in the US due to cellular reception. These sell all the time on ebay.
So you are telling me that ebay has no fear of the feds, but bows down
to Mickey Mouse?
mi...@sushi.com
I blew up a $100 notebook power supply using a modified sine inverter.
Data centers use true sine. Generally, data centers use a double
conversion UPS. That is, convert AC to DC, surge surpress the crap out
of the DC (which is far easier than AC), then create a low THD sine
wave.
http://www.upsforless.com/doubleconversionupss-1.aspx
In any event, I can't have the RF hash generated by the modified sine
in the test environment.
Jon Kirwan
<k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
You know? I'm not always wrong, though you may think so.
I clearly said all this, earlier. I already know what you
just wrote. Been there, reported it, etc. My local bank
_does_ care... about it's own bottom line. And that means
not being very cooperative.
>>American Express is a little different. They both issue the
>>credit _and_ do the transaction work. So they retain a
>>personal, financial interest in fraud cases. And they seem
>>to demonstrate that difference, at least to me.
>
>I have an AmEx and a Visa that both pay my 1% (on everything, more on
>some things). I bought my Unisaw with a year's kickbacks on the Visa
>(we bought some expensive stuff during the teaser months - by
>design ;). I just got two gift cards from AmEx. Works for me.
Amex only, now.
Jon
Spehro Pefhany
>There has to be some justification in the complaint. For instance, if
>Sony says the seller has bad breath, ebay probably won't stop the
>sale. Counterfeit goods, advertising used as new, etc, would probably
>do the trick. Like I said, we need to get the whole story. Note that
>ebay doesn't exactly want to get the so-called illegal seller all
>pissed off either.
>
>Case in point are radio scanners that are not legal to be sold as new
>in the US due to cellular reception. These sell all the time on ebay.
>So you are telling me that ebay has no fear of the feds, but bows down
>to Mickey Mouse?
Pretty much. eBay is a profit-oriented corporation and doesn't have to
allow any particular person to be a customer. They will concentrate on
satisfying the big sellers who bring them big money, and the big IP
owners (and the government) who can cause them big problems. Telling
some troublesome small seller to go away is a low-cost way of avoiding
problems.
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/items-ov.html
There is no specific eBay restriction on radio scanners that I can
see. I'm not sure the prohibition has ever been applied to private
importation for personal use. Here's the relevant law-- they slipped
it into the back (Sec 403) of a bill mostly aimed at regulating the
1-900 bandits.
http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/OSEC/library/legislative_histories/1460.pdf
It's been years since I've even seen an analog phone anyway, so it's
kind of a non-issue these days.
Hmmm...
http://www.fcc.gov/Forms/Form740/740.pdf
Exemption:
7. Three or fewer radio receivers, computers, or other unintentional
radiators as defined in Part 15 of the FCC Rules, are being imported
for an individual�s personal use and are not intended for sale.
So it doesn't look like there is any prohibition on importing a few
for private use, provided you fill out the proper paperwork (not that
you'd likely be asked if USPS handled it) and you are what the US Feds
call the _importer of record_.
BTW, Disney regularly complained and had auctions terminated of items
made from legitimate licenced Disney fabric. They seem to have backed
off recently, but only because the sellers spent the money and time to
take Disney to court directly.
http://pages.ebay.com/help/community/NOCI1.pdf
Here we are talking about grey-market goods. Since the mfg company
generally owns the trademark, it has a say over what eBay allows--
even if the sales are legally allowed. Mfrs like to have the freedom
to maintain separate distribution networks- for example, a product
sold in the US may be cheaper than one sold through a distributor in
Canada. And it may be cheaper again in China, but perhaps no warranty
is provided (and maybe quality control isn't as good or accessories
are not as complete). If they don't limit grey market sales, local
disties won't have enough margin to survive and service (and their
brand name) will suffer. It's a legitimate concern, but also in
restraint of trade (seems to be allowable in the US, judging by car
dealers). In the US this is sort of an IP issue, and it could be a
contractual issue with offshore distributors (eg. no sales allowed
outside of your geographic area or we cut you off). Pretty hard to
enforce in some cases:
http://www.managingip.com/Article/2040839/Combat-grey-market-goods-in-the-US.html
John Devereux
> On Jan 2, 8:07 am, John Devereux <j...@devereux.me.uk> wrote:
>> "m...@sushi.com" <m...@sushi.com> writes:
[...]
>>
>> > Ebay exists to collect fees. They don't care who is selling the item
>> > as long as they get their cut. I suspect Rigol stopped supplying these
>> > dealers. They have a right not to sell to any dealer they don't like.
>>
>> Manufacturers *are* able to excert pressure on them somehow. A friend of
>> mine came home from the USA with 3 new PS3's just after they were
>> released there. He put them up on ebay, but the listing was removed
>> since it was "illegal" to sell them.
>>
>
> I'd like to see the paper trail on this. I think there is more to the
> story. I see stuff sold on ebay that I know has serious security
> concerns regarding export. [There is a New Mexico vendor that is
> pulling gear out of Los Alamos.] I see copyrighted literature put on
> CDs and sold, such as those electronics manuals that the manufacturer
> provides for free but arseholes put on CD to sell to stupid customers.
> I just don't believe ebay polices their sales to the degree you are
> inferring. Probably Sony told ebay the goods are counterfeit.
Possibly, or that the software was not licenced for UK sale
perhaps. IIRC it wasn't just him, all similar ads got taken down.
--
John Devereux
Jan Panteltje
"mi...@sushi.com" <mi...@sushi.com> wrote in
<c31ac3a1-b081-4d8e...@21g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>:
>I blew up a $100 notebook power supply using a modified sine inverter.
>Data centers use true sine. Generally, data centers use a double
>conversion UPS. That is, convert AC to DC, surge surpress the crap out
>of the DC (which is far easier than AC), then create a low THD sine
>wave.
>http://www.upsforless.com/doubleconversionupss-1.aspx
>
>In any event, I can't have the RF hash generated by the modified sine
>in the test environment.
Very long time ago I had a video recorder that had a synchronous 220V capstan motor.
So to drive it I used a power amplifier (2 x MJE3055 IIRC) feeding into a main transformer
used in reverse driving the low voltage winding), and a 50 Hz sine wave oscillator.
Efficiency was low, but, since I already had that amp and transformer, cost was low too.
It worked, but never became a permanent setup...
No RFI at all :-)
Spehro Pefhany
Maybe a bit from the rectifiers in the power supply.
Nico Coesel
AFAIK Ebay is very quick to take down listings. They don't bother to
investigate whether a claim is true or false.
--
Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
indicates you are not using the right tools...
nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
--------------------------------------------------------------
Jamie
has issues. You'll get a clean enough wave form on the other side to
correct for the issue.
Also, to a couple of friends of mine having problems trying to run
their auger on the wood stove via an inverter, in case power went out. I
had them use a transformer, because it would trip the inverter every
time the initial start on the motor would take place. This was with a
inverter well capable of driving the little AC motor. Also, putting an
incandescent lamp across the load helps with reactive type load devices
to reduce the effects on the inverter.
I don't think the cost of a 1:1 transformer for the troubled unit
would cost as much or more as a sine wave inverter, as long as the
device is lightly loaded. But then again, I you had a lot of devices
that has problems with this, then maybe a sine wave unit is practical,
price wise.
Jamie
We use AMx at work because the usually circle of venders we have
accounts for only carry the items I need about 50% of the time or, can't
deliver on time for us. So, we have a corporate AMx card I can use via
any vender off the .NET like Digikey, Mouser, Farnell, RF Parts, and
specialty places like getting large high powered resistors, HV, High
valued Caps etc...
The card is expensive how ever, we use it enough to cover the expense
and I guess the company thinks its a better deal!..
I myself, don't think otherwise. I guess i'll never understand big
business.
Jamie.
Didi
> "m...@sushi.com" <m...@sushi.com> writes:
> > Ebay exists to collect fees. They don't care who is selling the item
> > as long as they get their cut. I suspect Rigol stopped supplying these
> > dealers. They have a right not to sell to any dealer they don't like.
>
> Manufacturers *are* able to excert pressure on them somehow. A friend of
> mine came home from the USA with 3 new PS3's just after they were
> released there. He put them up on ebay, but the listing was removed
> since it was "illegal" to sell them.
I also had something similar. I was unable to see a product listed on
ebay a guy sent me a link to with my original IP address (located in
Bulgaria); had to hide behind some proxy to be able to see it (the
guy just wanted me to comment on the thing, was some sort of power
supply).
To believe all the "just market forces" cliche we are bombarded with
every day (anything else being branded "conspiracy theory") is just
naive nowadays. It is more like "just Darwinian forces", which is not
the same.
Dimiter
------------------------------------------------------
Dimiter Popoff Transgalactic Instruments
http://www.tgi-sci.com http://tgi-sci.com/tgi/nmcatb.htm <---- new
------------------------------------------------------
http://www.flickr.com/photos/didi_tgi/sets/72157600228621276/
Original message: http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.design/msg/c9668797d9771905?dmode=source
Jamie
Trying to vision the setup using bipolar on a 220v motor ?
I can only assume it was operating at a much lower voltage and maybe
in quasi bridge state?
krw
<jo...@infinitefactors.org> wrote:
Yes, from what you've said here.
>I clearly said all this, earlier. I already know what you
>just wrote. Been there, reported it, etc. My local bank
>_does_ care... about it's own bottom line. And that means
>not being very cooperative.
Then get another bank! If they don't care about *their* money, I sure
don't want them having access to mine.
>>>American Express is a little different. They both issue the
>>>credit _and_ do the transaction work. So they retain a
>>>personal, financial interest in fraud cases. And they seem
>>>to demonstrate that difference, at least to me.
>>
>>I have an AmEx and a Visa that both pay my 1% (on everything, more on
>>some things). I bought my Unisaw with a year's kickbacks on the Visa
>>(we bought some expensive stuff during the teaser months - by
>>design ;). I just got two gift cards from AmEx. Works for me.
>
>Amex only, now.
Don't like being stuck with only one. Those are the two I use
regularly. We also have a CU Visa but it doesn't kick anything back
so rarely gets used.
Jan Panteltje
<jamie_ka1lpa_not_v...@charter.net> wrote in
<7d30n.5500$_H7....@newsfe24.iad>:
Oscillator -> amplifier -> 220V-12V transformer in reverse -> motor.
No it was no bridge, just an audio power amp 50W RMS or so.
I think you can do this with a 12V car audio amp from a car battery too.
Jamie
Well, that explains it!..
2 3055's doing a class B or AB ..
Did stuff like that when making linears years ago via sweep tubes for
the chicken and 10 meter band for use in the car.
Used a couple of Radio shafts 6 volt CT xformers and some bipolars to
form a electronic multivibrator circuit. Voltage multiplier for the
plate voltage on the other side..
Connected 2 sweep tubes in series for the heaters, hence the use
of the 12 volt systems. Pie tank, plate choke etc....
The rest is history!..
Joerg
Ok, I'll have to check. Sometimes I look at the cards restaurants
mention as acceptable to them and I found that the Amex logo wasn't
always part of that line-up.
Joerg
That's the one I was thinking about. I wouldn't pay a huge fee for any
credit card.
Jon Kirwan
><snip>
>That's the one I was thinking about. I wouldn't pay a huge fee for any
>credit card.
I pay zero dollars for my American Express card(s). No
_direct_ fees, at least, annual or otherwise. I'm sure
businesses I buy from make certain they make a profit,
though. So I'm probably paying for it when I buy anything at
all from a sales outlet that so much as accepts the card. I'm
probably paying for other cards, too, whether or not I care
to use them. It all comes out in the wash. (Speaking of
which, what is the German equivalent for that last idiom?)
Jon
Joerg
Mostly they use a slang expression: "Es ist Pott wie Deckel". Pretty
much not-translateable :-)
Mr.T
"Jamie" <jamie_ka1lpa_not_v...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:DN10n.5400$_H7....@newsfe24.iad...
> Just use a 1:1 transformer between the inverter and device that
> has issues. You'll get a clean enough wave form on the other side to
> correct for the issue.
>
> would cost as much or more as a sine wave inverter, as long as the
> device is lightly loaded. But then again, I you had a lot of devices
> that has problems with this, then maybe a sine wave unit is practical,
> price wise.
But a 1:1 transformer will probably cost more than the modified square wave
inverter.
(Modified sine wave is a misnomer)
MrT.
krw
wrote:
Look around the next few times you're in restaurants. They're the
places that most like AmEx. I've never been refused in a restaurant
(a real one, anyway - don't know about McD's). Many will even take
Diners! <Shock!>
krw
wrote:
I won't pay a dime for a CC. I got a solicitation for a "Black" Visa
(I think it was) a while back. I showed the letter to my wife and
suggested we get it because it was so pretty. $500/yr for a single,
$750/yr for two cards. "Limited Membership", yea, I'll bet. For some
reason, she didn't think it very funny.
krw
<jo...@infinitefactors.org> wrote:
>On Sun, 03 Jan 2010 14:11:39 -0800, Joerg wrote:
>
>><snip>
>>That's the one I was thinking about. I wouldn't pay a huge fee for any
>>credit card.
>
>I pay zero dollars for my American Express card(s). No
>_direct_ fees, at least, annual or otherwise. I'm sure
My AmEx is a "Clear" card (really dumb idea, it can't be read). There
is no annual fee for it, either.
>businesses I buy from make certain they make a profit,
>though. So I'm probably paying for it when I buy anything at
>all from a sales outlet that so much as accepts the card. I'm
>probably paying for other cards, too, whether or not I care
>to use them. It all comes out in the wash. (Speaking of
>which, what is the German equivalent for that last idiom?)
Yes, it does. Either you take the kickback or you don't.
ehsjr
> David L. Jones wrote:
>
>> After 12 months or so of steady decline on prices of the Rigol DS1052E
>> scope on eBay (and other places), with them being around the US$400
>> mark or less for some time now from countless ebay sellers, the price
>> has suddenly jumped up to US$550 or more from all sellers. There has
>> also been a sudden and drastic reduction in the number of sellers for
>> this scope.
>>
>> I've heard that one ebay seller has been acused of "dumping" the scope
>> at low prices by another seller and has had their listings removed.
>>
>> and a quote from a cancelled ebay listing:
>> "We'd like to let you know that eBay has ended an item you were
>> bidding on for breaching of one or more of our policies. As it's
>> important that eBay maintains member privacy, we can't tell you
>> exactly why the listing was removed."
>>
>> Dealextreme still have them for US$400 though, better get in quick...
>> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.30573
>>
>> Dave.
>>
> $362.90 here
> http://www.getbetterlife.com/rigol-ds1052e-50mhz-oscilloscope-color-monitor-1gsa-usb-dso_p797.html?gclid=CKqsvaPjg58CFRh15QodZWM20w
>
>
What do you know about them? Legit? A scam?
What about shipping? The site seems to indicate $1.00 for
shipping 5 kg or less, but I wonder if I'm misunderstanding.
I say "seems to" because I clicked on shipping method. The
$1.00 might be a charge that is in addition to whatever the
actual shipping charge is. Shipping cost simply can't be
just one dollar, but I suppose it's possible the company
doesn't charge the customer the actual shipping cost.
Anyway, it all seems too good to be true, so it makes me
wonder.
Ed
mi...@sushi.com
<jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1l...@charter.net> wrote:
> Jan Panteltje wrote:
> > On a sunny day (Sun, 03 Jan 2010 11:21:45 -0500) it happened Jamie
> > <7d30n.5500$_H7.1...@newsfe24.iad>:
>
> >>Jan Panteltje wrote:
>
> >>>On a sunny day (Sat, 2 Jan 2010 21:39:14 -0800 (PST)) it happened
> >>><c31ac3a1-b081-4d8e-aa6a-2aff0b88a...@21g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>:
The true sine UPS are switchers of some sort. Maybe class D amp?
mi...@sushi.com
> "Jamie" <jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1l...@charter.net> wrote in message
Surplus isolation transformers are pretty cheap. I have a 1:1 and
considered using it with a stock modified rather than true sine. But I
figured just screw i. The UPS runs enough gear that it is worth doing
things right. Also, do you really want to put square waves in a
transformer? Won't that heat it up?
I came across a used isolation transformer at Excess Solutions about
two weeks ago. I think it was $20, and it would break your back if you
bought it. When RA Surplus went out of business, a got two big ass
120V to 100V Mitutoyo transformers for operating Japanese gear. So big
I really should have said no. However, the price was stupid cheap.
Anyway, back to back, this wold make an high power isolation
transformer.
geoff
> "Hello, Please don't worry, the problem is, an another seller has
> complaint by ebay that i'm selling the rigol oscilloscopes at a
> dumping price" He then offered to complete the original low price
> transaction
> outside of ebay.
Why should 'dumping prices' be a problem ?
geoff
Spehro Pefhany
wrote:
Undercutting the "sole agent" could be a problem for the sole agent.
Phil Allison
"geoff" <ge...@nospam-paf.co.nz>
**Sheep shagger alert !
>> "Hello, Please don't worry, the problem is, an another seller has
>> complaint by ebay that i'm selling the rigol oscilloscopes at a
>> dumping price"
> Why should 'dumping prices' be a problem ?
** You don't know "dumping " is against the law ??
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumping_(pricing_policy)
Or you don't know eBay's " User Agreement " excludes sellers engaging in
dumping.
http://pages.ebay.com.au/help/policies/user-agreement.html
See under " 6.2 Restrictions" part 4.
.... Phil
mi...@sushi.com
Nothing applicable in that section to the situation with Rigol alleged
to have occurred.
Phil Allison
<mi...@sushi.com>
Nothing applicable in that section to the situation with Rigol alleged
to have occurred.
** You are totally wrong - as usual.
Piss off wanker
.... Phil
Jamie
geoff
Yep, but nothing to do with Ebay.
geoff
geoff
Jeepers, Next time I have a bunch of things in stock I want to get rid of
cos they've been around too long I have to charge what everybody else
charges ?
geoff
Phil Allison
>
>>
>> **Sheep shagger alert !
>>
>>>> "Hello, Please don't worry, the problem is, an another seller has
>>>> complaint by ebay that i'm selling the rigol oscilloscopes at a
>>>> dumping price"
>>
>>
>>> Why should 'dumping prices' be a problem ?
>>
>>
>> ** You don't know "dumping " is against the law ??
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumping_(pricing_policy)
>>
>> Or you don't know eBay's " User Agreement " excludes sellers
>> engaging in dumping.
>>
>> http://pages.ebay.com.au/help/policies/user-agreement.html
>>
>> See under " 6.2 Restrictions" part 4.
>
> Jeepers,
** Wot a total fuckwit.
> Next time I have a bunch of things in stock I want to get rid of cos
> they've been around too long I have to charge what everybody else charges
> ?
** Got nothing to do with " dumping " laws
or the Rigol example
or the ebay user agreement
- you sheep shagging kiwi FUCKWIT !!
.... Phil
Mr.T
<mi...@sushi.com> wrote in message
news:8e1c962a-a471-448b...@k17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
>Surplus isolation transformers are pretty cheap.
Yeah when we had surplus stores here I got many big transformers that way.
They all (electronics surplus stores) disappeared years ago unfortunately.
MrT.
Mr.T
"Spehro Pefhany" <spef...@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote in message
news:uso4k5hjk9llvuodg...@4ax.com...
> >Why should 'dumping prices' be a problem ?
> >
And that affects eBay how?
MrT.
David L. Jones
It shouldn't be a problem until a local official seller that can't possibly
sell them for the same price complains.
There are countless companies like (presumably) Rigol that have diferent
wholesale pricing in different countries, so an official dealer in say
Australia can't even buy it for less than what someone in China sells it for
at a profit. Or to hold on to their dealership they aren't allowed to sell
it under a certain price.
With the advent of ebay and online trading, the world is a global
marketplace, so these sorts of traditional regional pricing models make it a
big fat mess.
You can bet your bottom dollar the ebay sellers in China are (or were) not
dumping the scopes at a loss, they made a very tidy profit.
I have since heard that another Rigol seller also had their auctions banned
for "dumping". So this appears to be the reason for removal of the hundreds
of Rigol's that were for sale on Ebay.
So it's likely that one (probably official Rigol) seller, that may not even
sell on Ebay, spoiled all the fun by complaining.
Dave.
--
================================================
kreed
> On Jan 3, 4:01 pm, "Mr.T" <MrT@home> wrote:
>
>
>
> > "Jamie" <jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1l...@charter.net> wrote in message
>
> >news:DN10n.5400$_H7....@newsfe24.iad...
>
> > > Just use a 1:1 transformer between the inverter and device that
> > > has issues. You'll get a clean enough wave form on the other side to
> > > correct for the issue.
>
> > > I don't think the cost of a 1:1 transformer for the troubled unit
> > > would cost as much or more as a sine wave inverter, as long as the
> > > device is lightly loaded. But then again, I you had a lot of devices
> > > that has problems with this, then maybe a sine wave unit is practical,
> > > price wise.
>
> > But a 1:1 transformer will probably cost more than the modified square wave
> > inverter.
> > (Modified sine wave is a misnomer)
>
> > MrT.
>
> Surplus isolation transformers are pretty cheap. I have a 1:1 and
> considered using it with a stock modified rather than true sine. But I
> figured just screw i. The UPS runs enough gear that it is worth doing
> things right. Also, do you really want to put square waves in a
> transformer? Won't that heat it up?
>
It will certainly make it very noisy
mi...@sushi.com
> <m...@sushi.com> wrote in message
I don't know where "here" is for you, but in the SF Bay Area, so much
manufacturing has left the area that the surplus stores are struggling
to get surplus stuff. Throw ebay into the equation, and there is even
less stuff available in stores. But isolation transformers are more
of a lab item than a production item, so they may still be in your
area locally, but probably stashed in some garage.
Topaz transformers show up from time to time at electronics flea
markets. In the days when small company owned a Vax, the Topaz was
your isolation transformer.
mi...@sushi.com
> <m...@sushi.com>
Have a nice day. Oh wait, somebody as screwed up as you never has nice
days.
You really make the rest of the Aussies look bad.
mi...@sushi.com
Dumping is selling beneath the cost of manufacturing, so only the
manufacturer can dump. A vendor can buy out the merchandise from a
store that goes out of business and sell those items for less than the
manufacturing cost. In the states, the FTC would have to declare a
dumping situation. [I haven't had to deal with the FTC in a long
time, but it was an amazingly accessible organization considering you
were dealing with the government.
Like I've said, I need to see the documents on this alleged dumping. I
just don't see Ebay taking sides in any kind of dispute like this.
Rather, I see Rigol deciding not to sell stock to certain vendors that
they don't like. An individual company can set up any distribution
channel is desires (well maybe excluding automobiles). A prime example
is Apple, that reduces it's vendors to keep the price of their good
high.
Phil Allison
Phil Allison
<mi...@sushi.com
Dumping is selling beneath the cost of manufacturing,
** NOT TRUE you FUCKING MORON
Read the damn Wiki on it - FUCKWIT
China is a special case too - FUCKWIT
Then GO DROP DEAD !!
.... Phil
VWWall
two junked microwave oven transformers. Just remove the HV windings and
the magnetic shunt, leaving the primary windings. Connect them together
with two coils wound on each core with a few turns of No 12 insulated
building wire. Calculate the number of turns to not exceed 20A at the
intended maximum load.
--
Virg Wall, P.E.
Phil Allison
"VWWall"
> You can make an isolation transformer that will handle a kilowatt from two
> junked microwave oven transformers.
** No you cannot.
> Just remove the HV windings and the magnetic shunt, leaving the primary
> windings.
** Lunacy.
> Connect them together with two coils wound on each core with a few turns
> of No 12 insulated building wire.
** Complete insanity.
> Calculate the number of turns to not exceed 20A at the intended maximum
> load.
** VW is bullshitting wildly.
No way has he tied it with success.
The huge Imag figures of microwave oven transformers kills the wacky idea
completely.
.... Phil
kreed
> Mr.T wrote:
> > <m...@sushi.com> wrote in message
This sounds very bodgy to me.
Getting 2 identical transformers, and putting the 2 primary windings
on one core would be a better idea
This would involve taking them (the E and I parts) apart and putting
them back together - not easy for the inexperienced.
Whether in practice it would work well is another matter.
David L. Jones
There almost certainly aren't any, it's an internal ebay decision.
The seller probably just got an email informing them their listings have
been removed because of a breach of some rule, and that's it, end of story.
Some monkey at Ebay has spoken.
> I just don't see Ebay taking sides in any kind of dispute like this.
Ebay are judge, jury and executioner, and they are famous for showing it.
Indeed, they have to be shown to take complaints of legal matters seriously,
and they err on the side of caution every time. If they get any complaint
with the wiff of a legal basis, they'll just pull the listing(s).
Their site, their rules, they don't muck around, and the "victim" (sellers
in this case) usually doesn't get any recourse.
> Rather, I see Rigol deciding not to sell stock to certain vendors that
> they don't like.
Maybe, but there are many other ways to obtain them, esp in China, so that
doesn't explain the lack of no more cheap Rigol scopes on Ebay.
The only facts are that Ebay have removed the cheap Rigol listings for what
they are calling "dumping".
You can still buy the unit at the old cheap prices from various other online
dealers, drop-shippers, and Chinese sources, here is but one example:
http://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?SearchText=rigol&CatId=0
Mr.T
<mi...@sushi.com> wrote in message
news:23b6594d-3c71-45d0...@a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>Topaz transformers show up from time to time at electronics flea
>markets. In the days when small company owned a Vax, the Topaz was
>your isolation transformer.
Yep, had a Topaz myself once, but I've never seen one going cheap in
Australia! Not to say it can't happen, but you'd have to be very lucky, not
something the OP can necessarily go and buy at a reasonable price just
because he wants it. And not something you'd want to carry in your car
either, to use with an inverter supply!
MrT.
mi...@sushi.com
> <m...@sushi.com> wrote in message
Freight for a Topaz down under would be significant. Topaz has made
some units that are small, well small for a Topaz. Maybe 12x8x8
inches.
mi...@sushi.com
I didn't want the scope. [I'm the one that suggested getting a used
Tek versus Chinese mystery gear.] I'm just very doubtful of the story.
Ebay has as much to lose from dissing a seller as to dissing an
manufacturer. In fact, more to lose from dissing the seller since the
manufacturer isn't sell their product on ebay.
Basically, the story doesn't pass the smell test. Now if Rigol cut out
the sleazy dealers, that would also explain the scope not being on
ebay, right? It is far easier for Rigol to not give the jerk gear to
sell rather than try to get ebay to prevent the sale.
Doctor, it hurts when I do this.
Well, stop doing that!
David L. Jones
I have heard from two people who have contacted previous Rigol ebay sellers
directly, and both have said their listings were pulled for the same
"dumping" reason.
So there is no reason to doubt the story.
> Ebay has as much to lose from dissing a seller as to dissing an
> manufacturer. In fact, more to lose from dissing the seller since the
> manufacturer isn't sell their product on ebay.
Ebay already make so much money the commisions on these scopes are nothing
to them. It is more important to them that they be seen to be acting on
complaints. It's been happening for many years now, nothing new here at all.
> Basically, the story doesn't pass the smell test. Now if Rigol cut out
> the sleazy dealers, that would also explain the scope not being on
> ebay, right?
Wrong.
As I said, there are plenty of places to buy this scope wholesale cheaply in
China, so I imagine it would be hard for Rigol to cut out these small time
ebay sellers directly.
There were so many cut price Rigol sellers on ebay you didn't know were to
look, everyone simply jumped on the Rigol popularity bandwagon, flipping it
for a profit to us westerners from whomever they bought it from in China.
There were zero reported cases of any dodgy sellers. All that are left now
are a couple of the expensive sellers.
> It is far easier for Rigol to not give the jerk gear to
> sell rather than try to get ebay to prevent the sale.
Nope, much easier for someone (maybe Rigol directly, we don't know) to
simply complain to Ebay and let them use their famous overzealous legal
paranoia to block all cheap sellers. Doing it the other way around would be
like pushing brown stuff up a hill with a pointy stick.
E
"VWWall" <vw...@large.invalid> kirjoitti
viestiss�:wN6dnWD6k6DfPt_W...@earthlink.com...
Would it work if I just connect HV windings together?
So as to avoid any rewounding job.
-ek
Phil Allison
"E"
> Would it work if I just connect HV windings together?
> So as to avoid any rewounding job.
** It will simply NOT WORK no matter what you do.
The idea that waste microwave transformers have all kinds
of other uses is 100 % FUCKING BOLLOCKS !!!
Just another internet MYTH !!
VW should know better than to spread such utter crapology around.
Shame on him.
..... Phil
Mike Harrison
Yes, although MOTs, being cheaply made are likely to run close to saturation, so you may find they
behave slightly less well than a properly rated isolation transformer.
By all means try it, as the raw materials are available often for free, and take great care of the
HV, which WILL kill you easily! Make sure you connect the cores to a good mains earth.
kreed
> "VWWall" <vw...@large.invalid> kirjoitti
>
>
>
> > Mr.T wrote:
> >> <m...@sushi.com> wrote in message
> >>news:8e1c962a-a471-448b...@k17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
> >>> Surplus isolation transformers are pretty cheap.
>
> >> Yeah when we had surplus stores here I got many big transformers that
> >> way.
> >> They all (electronics surplus stores) disappeared years ago
> >> unfortunately.
>
> > You can make an isolation transformer that will handle a kilowatt from two
> > junked microwave oven transformers. Just remove the HV windings and the
> > magnetic shunt, leaving the primary windings. Connect them together with
> > two coils wound on each core with a few turns of No 12 insulated building
> > wire. Calculate the number of turns to not exceed 20A at the intended
> > maximum load.
>
> Would it work if I just connect HV windings together?
> So as to avoid any rewounding job.
> -ek
If you have to do it - try using a pair of 240 - 110v / 48v / 24v
units back to back or other matching voltage low voltage surplus
transformers.
I did this 25 odd years back using 2 surplus (free) 240v to 24v @15a
units back to back, and it worked fine for many years. It wont be as
efficient as a single purpose designed transformer, and will be
heavier and run hotter.
Remembering that there will be 2 lots of losses, and that normal
transformers aren't designed to be used "backwards", you will NOT get
the full rated VA out of this arrangement, it will cost more in
electricity use.
I wouldn't even contemplate that idea of putting microwave HT windings
back to back - it would be an absolutely totally and instantly LETHAL
device if anything went wrong, not just an irritating "ZAP".
Please, Please Please do NOT muck about with these things. these
voltages (remember that unlike TV EHT supplies these oven transformers
have plenty of current behind them) can even punch through damaged or
underrated insulated tool handles and to your hand, delivering a
lethal shock !
If there was a breakdown to the output winding, which could possibly
happen with old parts - specially ones from faulty microwaves pulled
from rubbish dumps, or that had mouse / insect infestations - I would
hate to think what could possibly happen to anyone or anything
connected on the 240v isolated "secondary" side.
If you didnt join the 2 HT windings together in a proper way, and
insulate properly the connection point could even arc, starting a
fire.
Either physically remove the HT winding first if you are going to muck
around with it, or better still, just do yourself a favour and chuck
the microwave oven transformer (and the modification idea) in the
rubbish bin before someone gets killed.
kreed
Ouch ! That is one hell of a transformer :)
Phil Allison
"Mike Harrison"
> Yes,
** Sorry pal - but you are DEAD WRONG !!
> although MOTs, being cheaply made are likely to run close to saturation,
** CLOSE to SATURATION ?
How about HARD INTO SATURATION !!!
The off-load primary rms current is typically ** 75% ** of the full on-load
current !!!
How about 1250VA consumption - OFF LOAD !!!!
> so you may find they
> behave slightly less well than a properly rated isolation transformer.
**ROTFLMAO
The Poms are still the MASTERS of understatement !!!
> By all means try it,
** VERY BAD ADVICE !!
> as the raw materials are available often for free, and take great care of
> the
> HV, which WILL kill you easily!
** In the case of " E", Darwin might be well pleased.
.... Phil
Jan Panteltje
<phi...@tpg.com.au> wrote in <7qgctt...@mid.individual.net>:
>** It will simply NOT WORK no matter what you do.
>
>The idea that waste microwave transformers have all kinds
>
>of other uses is 100 % FUCKING BOLLOCKS !!!
Snif snif, you mean the electric chair I made with it specially for you won't work?
Phil Allison
"Jan Panteltje Wog Cunt "
> Snif snif, you mean the electric chair I made with it specially for you
> won't work?
** Dunno ....
why don't you try it out yourself ?
Arsehole.
..... Phil
Jan Panteltje
<phi...@tpg.com.au> wrote in <7qgrdd...@mid.individual.net>:
Becaue I think it will work!
And thus you were wrong.
geoff
Sounds more like parallel importing and selling at a lower price than the
local dealer, rather than 'dumping'. That's not illegal in USAor NZ. Dunno
about Oz.
geoff
mi...@sushi.com
Bingo. Only the manufacturer can dump. Like I said, the story doesn't
pass the smell test. Further, nobody has pointed out on ebays website
where they would take such action.
The issue is by refusing to sell something, you also subject yourself
to legal action. This is why most companies simply wait for the
temporary injunction before taking action.
mi...@sushi.com
Though you fail to provide traceable backing for your claim. Ebay
makes money from any vendor that completes a sale. The risk to
rejecting sellers is that seller will find another marketing channel
and simply bypass Ebay.
>
> > Basically, the story doesn't pass the smell test. Now if Rigol cut out
> > the sleazy dealers, that would also explain the scope not being on
> > ebay, right?
>
> Wrong.
> As I said, there are plenty of places to buy this scope wholesale cheaply in
> China, so I imagine it would be hard for Rigol to cut out these small time
> ebay sellers directly.
Wrong. The middle man in the deal wants profit too, so it would be
harder to compete under such circumstances.
> There were so many cut price Rigol sellers on ebay you didn't know were to
> look, everyone simply jumped on the Rigol popularity bandwagon, flipping it
> for a profit to us westerners from whomever they bought it from in China.
> There were zero reported cases of any dodgy sellers. All that are left now
> are a couple of the expensive sellers.
>
> > It is far easier for Rigol to not give the jerk gear to
> > sell rather than try to get ebay to prevent the sale.
>
> Nope, much easier for someone (maybe Rigol directly, we don't know) to
> simply complain to Ebay and let them use their famous overzealous legal
> paranoia to block all cheap sellers. Doing it the other way around would be
> like pushing brown stuff up a hill with a pointy stick.
>
Show me the cease and desist letter, the injunction, whatever. It is
far easier to ignore companies that have no legal standing.
> Dave.
>
Ebay is a company of dubious morals. Just look at the crap that gets
sold on ebay. CDRoms of copyrighted material for instance, often
available for free. They sell porn if you get vetted somehow. That
turns out to be the reason they have private auctions. About the only
thing they don't touch is Nazi memorabilia.
The good needs Rigol has nothing I want. ;-)