60 Hz RF
Joe Snodgrass
What do you suppose would be a good way for a person to generate high
intensity RF at 60 Hz? TIA
Spehro Pefhany
Half-wave dipole fed by an amplifier?
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
sp...@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
Rich Webb
For the purposes of your statement of requirements, define "good" and
"high intensity." An estimate of the target NRE, unit cost, and
production quantity/rate would be helpful.
One possible answer for selected values of the above requirements:
1. Stand in your kitchen.
2. Hold out your hand.
--
Rich Webb Norfolk, VA
George Herold
> What do you suppose would be a good way for a person to generate high
> intensity RF at 60 Hz? TIA
How about a big coil plugged into the wall socket?
George H.
Ian Field
"Joe Snodgrass" <joe....@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b10e602f-23ba-4cbf...@w10g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
>
> What do you suppose would be a good way for a person to generate high
> intensity RF at 60 Hz? TIA
>
Disable the safety interlocks on a microwave oven so you can run it with the
door open.
Winston
>
> What do you suppose would be a good way for a person to generate high
> intensity RF at 60 Hz? TIA
We need radiological pollution, more water vapor and louder
rap music at traffic intersections much more desperately
than we need another 60 Hz EM field.
--Winston
Phil Allison
"Joe Snodgrass is a fuckwit TROLL "
>
> What do you suppose ..
** The Q is not serious.
Joe is a metal defective who get his kicks out of wasting the time of good
people.
Tell him to go fuck himself.
.... Phil
John Larkin
<joe....@yahoo.com> wrote:
Use a really big antenna and lots of voltage. Like those submarine
comm things.
John
Phil Allison
"Joe Snodgrass is a fuckwit TROLL "
>
> What do you suppose ..
** The Q is not serious.
Joe is a metal defective who get his kicks out of wasting the time of good
people.
Tell the ASD fucked cunt to go fuck himself.
.... Phil
Tim Wescott
> On Tue, 3 May 2011 05:46:55 -0700 (PDT), the renowned Joe Snodgrass
> <joe....@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> What do you suppose would be a good way for a person to generate high
>> intensity RF at 60 Hz? TIA
>
> Half-wave dipole fed by an amplifier?
How about a half-wave dipole fed by the wall plug?
(note the frequency).
--
Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com
Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html
Tim Wescott
> On 05/03/2011 06:06 AM, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
>> On Tue, 3 May 2011 05:46:55 -0700 (PDT), the renowned Joe Snodgrass
>> <joe....@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> What do you suppose would be a good way for a person to generate high
>>> intensity RF at 60 Hz? TIA
>>
>> Half-wave dipole fed by an amplifier?
>
> How about a half-wave dipole fed by the wall plug?
>
> (note the frequency).
>
lot for the antenna, though).
Vladimir Vassilevsky
Tim Wescott wrote:
> On 05/03/2011 10:09 AM, Tim Wescott wrote:
>
>> On 05/03/2011 06:06 AM, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 3 May 2011 05:46:55 -0700 (PDT), the renowned Joe Snodgrass
>>> <joe....@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> What do you suppose would be a good way for a person to generate high
>>>> intensity RF at 60 Hz? TIA
>>>
>>>
>>> Half-wave dipole fed by an amplifier?
>>
>>
>> How about a half-wave dipole fed by the wall plug?
>>
>> (note the frequency).
>>
> (you may need to buy more real estate than is found on your average city
> lot for the antenna, though).
The transmit antennae for that kind of frequencies are done as a long
(~10...100km) cable connected to the ground at the both ends. The
effective current return path goes deep under the surface; so the whole
structure works like a giant loop.
Dipoles or GPs are getting practical from ~kHz frequencies or higher.
Vladimir Vassilevsky
DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultant
http://www.abvolt.com
Rich Grise
>
> What do you suppose would be a good way for a person to generate high
> intensity RF at 60 Hz? TIA
60 Hz isn't "radio frequency."
But as far as radiating 60 Hz, just look at the power poles around your
house. Get a proper oscilloscope, and touch the probe practically
anywhere - we're surrounded by 60 Hz radiation; RF is merely a
frequency designation.
Hope This Helps!
Rich
Rich Grise
> On 05/03/2011 10:09 AM, Tim Wescott wrote:
>> On 05/03/2011 06:06 AM, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
>>> On Tue, 3 May 2011 05:46:55 -0700 (PDT), the renowned Joe Snodgrass
>>>>
>>>> intensity RF at 60 Hz? TIA
>>>
>>> Half-wave dipole fed by an amplifier?
>>
>> How about a half-wave dipole fed by the wall plug?
>>
>> (note the frequency).
>>
> (you may need to buy more real estate than is found on your average city
> lot for the antenna, though).
>
Cheers!
Rich
Joerg
But first you'd have to buy uncle Leroy's 2500 acre buffalo ranch :-)
--
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com/
"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.
Rich Grise
> John Larkin wrote:
>> On Tue, 3 May 2011 05:46:55 -0700 (PDT), Joe Snodgrass
>>
>>> intensity RF at 60 Hz? TIA
>>
>> Use a really big antenna and lots of voltage. Like those submarine
>> comm things.
>
> But first you'd have to buy uncle Leroy's 2500 acre buffalo ranch :-)
>
Cheers!
Rich
Joe Snodgrass
wrote:
> On Tue, 3 May 2011 05:46:55 -0700 (PDT), the renowned Joe Snodgrass
>
>
> >What do you suppose would be a good way for a person to generate high
> >intensity RF at 60 Hz? TIA
>
> Half-wave dipole fed by an amplifier?
Calculate the wavelength, and you'll see why that's a bad idea.
Joe Snodgrass
Congratulations, you've just solved one of the most important problems
in the history of power electronics. What part of the world are you
in?
Ian Field
------------------------
Cloud cuckoo land.
John Fields
---
Whoosh...
--
JF
John Fields
---
Actually, he hasn't, since he only presented half of the solution.
What would be required, in addition to the coil, would be a capacitor
with a reactance equal and opposite to the reactance of the coil at
60Hz in order to make the system resonant and generate the EM field
via the radiation resistance of the circuit.
--
JF
TTman
>
> What do you suppose would be a good way for a person to generate high
> intensity RF at 60 Hz? TIA
The best way is to stick your fingers in an outlet socket. Your body makes a
great aerial at 60Hz. We do it all the time in the UK, but it's not as
efficient as we are on 50Hz...
Joel Koltner
news:ipptar$nf5$1...@dont-email.me...
> The best way is to stick your fingers in an outlet socket. Your body makes a
> great aerial at 60Hz. We do it all the time in the UK, but it's not as
> efficient as we are on 50Hz...
True, but supposedly it's easier to let go when you need to mind the chickens
or somesuch at 50Hz than 60Hz...
In Kaiser's "Electromagnetic Compatibility Handbook," he does include the
human body in an (otherwise?) completely serious table of antennas and their
various properties!
(You guys might not have access to this book, as being upwards of 4" thick and
heavy enough to double as a hammer it's probably classified as a weapon over
there... :-) )
John Larkin
A coil doesn't have to be resonated to radiate EM waves. Resonating it
just reduces the load on the AC power supply.
But "high intensity" is another matter. Hard to do with a
reasonable-sized coil, at 60 Hz.
John
John Fields
---
Not true.
For a given power output, if the circuit is parallel resonant, then
the power supply has to supply the voltage and current required to
drive the tank's resistance.
If it's series resonant, the power supply still has to supply the
voltage and current required to drive the tank's resistance.
---
>But "high intensity" is another matter. Hard to do with a
>reasonable-sized coil, at 60 Hz.
---
What's "reasonable sized", and what's "high intensity"?
--
JF
Joe Snodgrass
If all the circuit parameters are known, what equation is used to
calculate the RF power emitted? TIA.
John KD5YI
> On Tue, 03 May 2011 15:35:33 -0700, John Larkin
> <jjla...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 03 May 2011 15:56:55 -0500, John Fields
>> <jfi...@austininstruments.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 3 May 2011 13:13:11 -0700 (PDT), Joe Snodgrass
>>> <joe....@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On May 3, 9:41 am, George Herold<gher...@teachspin.com> wrote:
>>>>> On May 3, 8:46 am, Joe Snodgrass<joe.s...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> What do you suppose would be a good way for a person to generate high
>>>>>> intensity RF at 60 Hz? TIA
>>>>>
>>>>> How about a big coil plugged into the wall socket?
>>>>
>>>> Congratulations, you've just solved one of the most important problems
>>>> in the history of power electronics.
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Actually, he hasn't, since he only presented half of the solution.
>>>
>>> What would be required, in addition to the coil, would be a capacitor
>>> with a reactance equal and opposite to the reactance of the coil at
>>> 60Hz in order to make the system resonant and generate the EM field
>>> via the radiation resistance of the circuit.
>>
>> A coil doesn't have to be resonated to radiate EM waves. Resonating it
>> just reduces the load on the AC power supply.
>
> ---
> Not true.
I believe that is true, John. The field is radiated by passing current
through the *radiation resistance*. It doesn't care how the current
comes to be, whether it is due to circulating current or from a source
which can supply the current without resonance.
> For a given power output, if the circuit is parallel resonant, then
> the power supply has to supply the voltage and current required to
> drive the tank's resistance.
Yes, the tank's resistance plus radiation resistance.
> If it's series resonant, the power supply still has to supply the
> voltage and current required to drive the tank's resistance.
> ---
Yes, the tank's resistance plus radiation resistance.
>> But "high intensity" is another matter. Hard to do with a
>> reasonable-sized coil, at 60 Hz.
>
> ---
> What's "reasonable sized", and what's "high intensity"?
>
Well, check the radiation resistance vs the system's resistance. In the
case of a 60 Hz loop of "reasonable dimensions", you will probably find
the radiation resistance to be in the micro-ohms or less. This will give
nano-percent efficiency.
By the way, I am assuming we are discussing transverse electromagnetic
radiation.
Rich Grise
> On Tue, 03 May 2011 15:56:55 -0500, John Fields
>>>> On May 3, 8:46 am, Joe Snodgrass <joe.s...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > What do you suppose would be a good way for a person to generate high
>>>> > intensity RF at 60 Hz? TIA
>>>>
>>>> How about a big coil plugged into the wall socket?
>>>
>>>Congratulations, you've just solved one of the most important problems
>>>in the history of power electronics.
>>
>>
>>What would be required, in addition to the coil, would be a capacitor
>>with a reactance equal and opposite to the reactance of the coil at
>>60Hz in order to make the system resonant and generate the EM field
>>via the radiation resistance of the circuit.
>
> A coil doesn't have to be resonated to radiate EM waves. Resonating it
> just reduces the load on the AC power supply.
>
> But "high intensity" is another matter. Hard to do with a
> reasonable-sized coil, at 60 Hz.
Who said anything about "reasonable?" ;-)
Cheers!
Rich
Uwe Hercksen
John Larkin schrieb:
> A coil doesn't have to be resonated to radiate EM waves. Resonating it
> just reduces the load on the AC power supply.
Hello,
a coil would radiate a (strong) magnetic field with 60 Hz, but a very
weak electric field. For an efective radiation of EM waves, you would
need the electric and magnetic fields together, with balanced strength.
Otherwise the EM waves could not work over larger distances.
Bye
Mark
thought experiment..
take a small coil with a large current that radiates as you say a
strong magnetic field but a weak electric field.
right next to it, put a small probe with a high voltage that radiates
a strong electric field but a weak magnetic field.
Phased correctly these two should be an efficient EM radiator....
But they are not...
Mark
Archimedes' Lever
On a side note...
A single pulse into a coil inside an armor case will shrink coins just
fine!
The coil evaporates, but the coin shrinks from the magnetic force.
John Larkin
Loop antennas work fine. They just get a tad large at 60 Hz.
Joh
George Herold
Excellent is there any prize money involved?
George H.
George Herold
> On Tue, 3 May 2011 13:13:11 -0700 (PDT), Joe Snodgrass
>
Oh I could spray plenty of 60 Hz around without a capacitor. But sure
add cap. Series resonance? Do you want a share of my prize money?
George H.
George Herold
<jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
The 60 Hz AC magnetic fields have gotten so bad at the place I work,
that I now have to schlep the optical pumping apparatus back to my
home to test it. (~0.5 milli Gauss line widths at ~10 Gauss fields.)
The AC fields are ~1-2 mG in strength. I thought about trying dectect
and cancel them over a small area.. but gave it up.
George H.
Bill K7NOM
How about a BIG COIL plugged in to the transmission line from Hoover Dam :-)
Bill K7NOM
GoldIntermetallicEmbrittlement
Go look at the quarter shrinking site.
Rich Grise
> On May 4, 5:02 am, Uwe Hercksen <herck...@mew.uni-erlangen.de> wrote:
>> John Larkin schrieb:
>>
>> > A coil doesn't have to be resonated to radiate EM waves. Resonating it
>> > just reduces the load on the AC power supply.
>>
>> weak electric field. For an efective radiation of EM waves, you would
>> need the electric and magnetic fields together, with balanced strength.
>> Otherwise the EM waves could not work over larger distances.
>
>
> take a small coil with a large current that radiates as you say a
> strong magnetic field but a weak electric field.
>
> right next to it, put a small probe with a high voltage that radiates
> a strong electric field but a weak magnetic field.
>
> Phased correctly these two should be an efficient EM radiator....
>
> But they are not...
>
300 amp arc, my monitor screen distorts.
Cheers!
Rich
[1] weldor: a guy who uses a welder.
welder: the machine the weldor uses.
Greegor
> Joe is a metal defective < snip >
metal defective?
Is that related to a strain gauge?
Phil Allison
"Greegor"
> metal defective?
** So YOU are just like Joe - is a mental defective who get his kicks
out of wasting the time of good people.
.... Phil
Ian Field
"Greegor" <gree...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1ba83be4-ac37-433a...@f2g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...
metal defective?
-----------------------
Screw loose.
Stan Shankman
If necessary, use a matching network. That should do it.
- Stan
:-)
"Joe Snodgrass" <joe....@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b10e602f-23ba-4cbf...@w10g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
>
Bill Beaty
> A coil doesn't have to be resonated to radiate EM waves.
> Resonating it just reduces the load on the AC power supply.
>
> reasonable-sized coil, at 60 Hz.
A permanent magnet is analogous to a superconducting coil. But how to
build a 60Hz AC permanent magnet? Simple.
Two permanent magnet rods held side by side, with alike poles
adjacent, will create an extensive magnetic field in the surrounding
volume. But the same two PM rods, if held side by side with unlike
poles adjacent, will create no extensive magnetic field, since the
adjacent opposite poles cancel out (and the field strength at a
distance is ~0)
So, in order to create a "60Hz permanent magnet," spin two PM magnets
so they flip end over end. Let them spin in opposite directions. Use
maglev to suspend them. Spin them in a vacuum chamber. Friction will
be very low, so you can keep them going at 3600RPM by using a small
'kicker' coil. Better use ceramic magnets to avoid inductive
braking. Perhaps use magnetized ferrite spheres rather than rods.
Next, create a quarter-wave radiator. Build more of the levitated-
bar-magnet devices. And more. Build a vast array which covers
thousands of square miles of landscape. If the phases of the
flipping ceramic magnets are adjusted, you can have strong N/S poles
appearing and vanishing at 60Hz along the border of the array. Or let
those poles rotate around the array if you prefer (and radiate circ
polarized 60Hz RF.) The output will rival that of a gigantic
superconducting loop antenna.
And once the array grows large enough, radiation resistance will start
slowing the magnets. You'll have to add more microwatts to each
kicker coil.
With even a small version of this device, probably we could use it as
the stator of an induction motor, with a large number of spinning
squirrel-cage rotors nearby, each running a bit below 3600RPM.
Such a rotor would benefit from having long "antennas" to couple the
rotor to the ambient 60Hz b-field, "antennas" in the form of long rods
composed of laminated iron sheets, or perhaps clusters of iron cable.
Antennas for picking up Mag-tricity waves!
((((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( (o) ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty Research Engineer
beaty, chem washington edu UW Chem Dept, Bagley Hall RM74
billb, eskimocom Box 351700, Seattle, WA 98195-1700
ph 206-543-6195 http://staff.washington.edu/wbeaty/
Rich Grise
> John Larkin wrote:
>> A coil doesn't have to be resonated to radiate EM waves.
>> Resonating it just reduces the load on the AC power supply.
>>
>> But "high intensity" is another matter. Hard to do with a
>> reasonable-sized coil, at 60 Hz.
>
> A permanent magnet is analogous to a superconducting coil. But how to
> build a 60Hz AC permanent magnet? Simple.
>
> Two permanent magnet rods held side by side, with alike poles
> adjacent, will create an extensive magnetic field in the surrounding
> volume. But the same two PM rods, if held side by side with unlike
> poles adjacent, will create no extensive magnetic field, since the
> adjacent opposite poles cancel out (and the field strength at a
> distance is ~0)
>
> So, in order to create a "60Hz permanent magnet," spin two PM magnets
> so they flip end over end. Let them spin in opposite directions. Use
> maglev to suspend them.
Wait a minute. Maglev on a pair of spinning bar magnets? Wouldn't they
cancel each other out?
Thanks,
Rich
m II
>
> What do you suppose would be a good way for a person to generate high
> intensity RF at 60 Hz? TIA
My neighbours were very impressed with the homebuilt Jacob's ladder I
built using a 16kv neon transformer. Two straightened coathangers lead
the arc upwards to a width of about 8 inches, where it was extinguished
and a new one started at the bottom of the 'V', where the wires were
about an inch apart.
Hot air around the arc made it rise.
That was pre-cable, so the area of impressed neighbours covered at least
a half block area.
Doing stuff that interferes with TV and radio is probably against the law.
mike