Name/source for mounting hardware

[David Lesher]

I'm seeking those clips that hold TO-92 cases. They look sorta
like the number 9, with the TO-92 going in the donut hole, and
the tail having a hole for a mounting screw. They hold the
device parallel to the mounting surface.

But I am having no luck finding the right term to describe such
to Mr. Digikey or Ms Mouser.....Suggestions?

I'm open to alternatives; our task is to fasten a temp sensor
to a 0.25" OD copper line to sense the fluid temp. within...
I planned to solder the clips to the line...

--
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

[John Larkin]

On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 03:45:38 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher <wb8...@panix.com> wrote:

>I'm seeking those clips that hold TO-92 cases. They look sorta
>like the number 9, with the TO-92 going in the donut hole, and
>the tail having a hole for a mounting screw. They hold the
>device parallel to the mounting surface.
>
>But I am having no luck finding the right term to describe such
>to Mr. Digikey or Ms Mouser.....Suggestions?
>
>I'm open to alternatives; our task is to fasten a temp sensor
>to a 0.25" OD copper line to sense the fluid temp. within...
>I planned to solder the clips to the line...

Shrink tubing?


--

John Larkin Highland Technology Inc
www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com

Precision electronic instrumentation
Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators
Custom timing and laser controllers
Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links
VME analog, thermocouple, LVDT, synchro, tachometer
Multichannel arbitrary waveform generators

[Rheilly Phoull]

On 29/04/13 12:08, John Larkin wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 03:45:38 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher <wb8...@panix.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm seeking those clips that hold TO-92 cases. They look sorta
>> like the number 9, with the TO-92 going in the donut hole, and
>> the tail having a hole for a mounting screw. They hold the
>> device parallel to the mounting surface.
>>
>> But I am having no luck finding the right term to describe such
>> to Mr. Digikey or Ms Mouser.....Suggestions?
>>
>> I'm open to alternatives; our task is to fasten a temp sensor
>> to a 0.25" OD copper line to sense the fluid temp. within...
>> I planned to solder the clips to the line...
>
> Shrink tubing?
>
>

And a shot of heat gel ??

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 03:45:38 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
<wb8...@panix.com> wrote:

>I'm seeking those clips that hold TO-92 cases. They look sorta
>like the number 9, with the TO-92 going in the donut hole, and
>the tail having a hole for a mounting screw. They hold the
>device parallel to the mounting surface.

I found a few attached to transistors, but nothing sold individually.
Try your luck and see if you can do better:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=TO92+heatsink&tbm=isch>

>But I am having no luck finding the right term to describe such
>to Mr. Digikey or Ms Mouser.....Suggestions?

Ummm... TO92 heat sink?

>I'm open to alternatives; our task is to fasten a temp sensor
>to a 0.25" OD copper line to sense the fluid temp. within...
>I planned to solder the clips to the line...

If that's part of a temperature control system, it's not going to work
very well. The problem is that you're measuring the temperature of a
big copper tubular heat sink. It will take a while for the fluid to
heat or cool the copper tubing resulting in a rather slow response
time. If there's any air flow over this thing, it will cool the temp
sensor and copper, resulting in what might be a substantial
temperature error. Basically, you want to measure the temperature of
the fluid and not the temperature of the tubing or the environment.

I suggest you drill a small hole in the copper tubing, shove in a
small glass thermistor probe that contacts the fluid and *NOT* the
copper tubing, and seal with epoxy glue.
<https://www.google.com/search?q=glass+thermistor+bead&tbm=isch>
You'll have much faster response, better accuracy, and less time
wasted trying to find strange heat sinks.

--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[Cydrome Leader]

In sci.electronics.design David Lesher <wb8...@panix.com> wrote:
> I'm seeking those clips that hold TO-92 cases. They look sorta
> like the number 9, with the TO-92 going in the donut hole, and
> the tail having a hole for a mounting screw. They hold the
> device parallel to the mounting surface.

haven't seen those in a while.

> But I am having no luck finding the right term to describe such
> to Mr. Digikey or Ms Mouser.....Suggestions?

It's not quite what you want, but might work, and is probably the only
off the shelf item like this anybody even makes:

http://www.aavid.com/products/standard/92fg

here's how it mounts. Cut the top tab and legs off and just solder it to
the tube? It's going to look pretty homemade.

http://www.rapidonline.com/catalogueimages/module/M077178P01WL.jpg

> I'm open to alternatives; our task is to fasten a temp sensor
> to a 0.25" OD copper line to sense the fluid temp. within...
> I planned to solder the clips to the line...

Tough one as you've got the worst possible shapes to join.

[Michael A. Terrell]

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>
> Ummm... TO92 heat sink?


ECG used to have them as part of their replacement transistor line.
NTE bought ECG, and I haven't looked to see if they have them.

[JB]

"David Lesher" <wb8...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:klkqd2$2do$1...@reader1.panix.com...

> I'm seeking those clips that hold TO-92 cases. They look sorta
> like the number 9, with the TO-92 going in the donut hole, and
> the tail having a hole for a mounting screw. They hold the
> device parallel to the mounting surface.
>
> But I am having no luck finding the right term to describe such
> to Mr. Digikey or Ms Mouser.....Suggestions?
>
> I'm open to alternatives; our task is to fasten a temp sensor
> to a 0.25" OD copper line to sense the fluid temp. within...
> I planned to solder the clips to the line...
>
> --

Keystone do some interesting stamped metal parts.

regds.
JB

[Rick]

"Jeff Liebermann" <je...@cruzio.com> wrote in message
news:fc0sn8t2cfsqrrlpj...@4ax.com...

If you insulate the sensor AND the pipe it will work. If the temperature is
not too high you can use something like "Great Stuff".
Rick

[dave]

On 04/29/2013 05:00 AM, Rick wrote:
> "Jeff Liebermann" <je...@cruzio.com> wrote in message
> news:fc0sn8t2cfsqrrlpj...@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 03:45:38 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher

>> Try your luck and see if you can do better:
>> <https://www.google.com/search?q=TO92+heatsink&tbm=isch>
>>

>

FYI, IMHO, Google is not a very good search engine. People pay them to
be displayed at the top and Google keeps a file on you so they can spam you.

duckduckgo.com is much more secure.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=to-92%20heatsink&kp=-1&kn=1

[John Larkin]

Moving fluids, especially water, have enormous equivalent thermal
conductivities, and copper is pretty good, too. Air is a terrible thermal
conductor. So the surface temp of a copper tube that carries a flowing liquid is
very close to the liquid temp. The time constants will be very fast.

Add a little external insulation to do even better.

[Spehro Pefhany]

On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 22:22:55 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>

>I suggest you drill a small hole in the copper tubing, shove in a
>small glass thermistor probe that contacts the fluid and *NOT* the
>copper tubing, and seal with epoxy glue.
><https://www.google.com/search?q=glass+thermistor+bead&tbm=isch>
>You'll have much faster response, better accuracy, and less time
>wasted trying to find strange heat sinks.

A more intrusive way is to adapt the 0.25" tube to a larger (maybe
3/8") tube with a T-fitting so the fluid makes a 90� turn, and insert
a sealed probe deep into the larger tubing (say 10 diameters of the
probe OD plus the sensitive end length). The hard right turn also
causes turbulence if you have enough flow, and prevents laminar flow
which will screw up your readings. Read about Reynolds numbers and
such if you're interested- it can be important. A 1/8" OD probe would
be better than something a TO-92 will fit into.

More Mickey Mouse (tm) would be to put a dollop of heatsink compount
on the TO-92 (with attached and electrically insulated leads,
obviously), wrap wide adhesive copper tape around the two, and finish
with some adhesive-lined shrink tubing and outer (thermal) insulation.

[Phil Hobbs]

On 04/29/2013 01:22 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 03:45:38 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
> <wb8...@panix.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm seeking those clips that hold TO-92 cases. They look sorta
>> like the number 9, with the TO-92 going in the donut hole, and
>> the tail having a hole for a mounting screw. They hold the
>> device parallel to the mounting surface.
>
> I found a few attached to transistors, but nothing sold individually.
> Try your luck and see if you can do better:
> <https://www.google.com/search?q=TO92+heatsink&tbm=isch>
>
>> But I am having no luck finding the right term to describe such
>> to Mr. Digikey or Ms Mouser.....Suggestions?
>
> Ummm... TO92 heat sink?
>
>> I'm open to alternatives; our task is to fasten a temp sensor
>> to a 0.25" OD copper line to sense the fluid temp. within...
>> I planned to solder the clips to the line...
>
> If that's part of a temperature control system, it's not going to work
> very well. The problem is that you're measuring the temperature of a
> big copper tubular heat sink. It will take a while for the fluid to
> heat or cool the copper tubing resulting in a rather slow response
> time. If there's any air flow over this thing, it will cool the temp
> sensor and copper, resulting in what might be a substantial
> temperature error. Basically, you want to measure the temperature of
> the fluid and not the temperature of the tubing or the environment.

What's worse, TO-92 packages are excellent insulators--all that sensor
will do is measure the temperature of its leads. TO220 would be a much
better idea.

Thermal diffusion in organic materials is amazingly slow--like 5000
times slower than in aluminum or copper. A half-mil layer of Kapton
tape is slower than an inch of aluminum.

A small copper tube's temperature won't be a bad proxy for the
temperature of the fluid _in_the_tube_, not necessarily in some
reservoir. Certainly the error will be smaller than the die temperature
to tube temperature error, if you use a TO-92.

>
> I suggest you drill a small hole in the copper tubing, shove in a
> small glass thermistor probe that contacts the fluid and *NOT* the
> copper tubing, and seal with epoxy glue.
> <https://www.google.com/search?q=glass+thermistor+bead&tbm=isch>
> You'll have much faster response, better accuracy, and less time
> wasted trying to find strange heat sinks.
>

My vote would be for a PT1000 RTD attached to the tube with Arctic
Silver epoxy or something equivalent, or else a TO220 transistor.

It would be interesting to think about using the gate-cathode junction
of a TO220 sensitive-gate SCR instead of a transistor. Since the tab is
normally the anode, you'd have junction isolation between the tubing and
the signal ground, which should help a lot with ground loops without
requiring a slow and/or messy thermal junction.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs


--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

[Phil Hobbs]

Whoops, diffusion speeds up quadratically as you go thinner. The
half-mil of Kapton is about as fast as sqrt(2500) mils of aluminum.

The thermal _conductivity_ is thousands of times less.

[lang...@fonz.dk]

On Apr 29, 4:22 pm, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSensel...@electrooptical.net> wrote:
snip

>
> My vote would be for a PT1000 RTD attached to the tube with Arctic
> Silver epoxy or something equivalent, or else a TO220 transistor.
>

the stuff used for refrigeration is pt1000 zip tied to the copper tube

http://www.danfoss.com/Products/Categories/List/RA/Electronic-Controls-Sensors-Transmitters/AKSEKS-Temperature-sensors/AKS-11-PT1000-Temperature-Sensor-Superheat-Measurement/533fe30a-eea8-4637-9a84-3be174edd3c6.html

-Lasse

[Phil Hobbs]

Realistically given the thermal TCs of all the rest of this stuff, that
would probably be fine. I'd want to do a bit better job of thermally
grounding the leads than they seem to be doing.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 06:44:23 -0700, John Larkin
<jjla...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

>Moving fluids, especially water, have enormous equivalent thermal
>conductivities, and copper is pretty good, too. Air is a terrible thermal
>conductor. So the surface temp of a copper tube that carries a flowing liquid is
>very close to the liquid temp. The time constants will be very fast.
>
>Add a little external insulation to do even better.

Agreed, and quite true where the mass of the fluid is much larger than
the mass of the pipe, such as in a household steel 1/2" or 3/4" water
pipe. Not so true for the OP's 1/4" copper tubing where:
OD = 1/4"
ID = 3/16"
Cross sectional area = Pi * r^2
OD area = Pi * 0.125^2 = 0.0491 sq in
ID area = Pi * 0.188^2 = 0.0276 sq in
Cross sectional area of copper
= 0.0491 - 0.0276 = 0.0215 sq in.
Cross sectional area of fluid = 0.0276 sq in.

In the OP's case, the volume of the fluid per unit length is only
about 20% more than that of the copper. For a slow moving fluid, with
slow temperature changes, that's probably ok. For a fast moving
fluid, with abrupt temperature changes, the doubling of the thermal
mass by the copper tubing is going to slow things down.

Also, because the fluid mass is about equal to the mass of the copper
heat sink, air currents over the 1/4" copper tubing is going to have
an effect. Thermal insulation of the sensor is useful, but with high
air flow, such as under the hood of an automobile, one would need to
insulate the entire length of tubing.

[John Larkin]

On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 03:45:38 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher <wb8...@panix.com> wrote:

>I'm seeking those clips that hold TO-92 cases. They look sorta
>like the number 9, with the TO-92 going in the donut hole, and
>the tail having a hole for a mounting screw. They hold the
>device parallel to the mounting surface.
>
>But I am having no luck finding the right term to describe such
>to Mr. Digikey or Ms Mouser.....Suggestions?
>
>I'm open to alternatives; our task is to fasten a temp sensor
>to a 0.25" OD copper line to sense the fluid temp. within...
>I planned to solder the clips to the line...

To get serious, solder a thermocouple to the copper pipe.

[Spehro Pefhany]

On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 08:39:21 -0700, John Larkin
<jjla...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 03:45:38 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher <wb8...@panix.com> wrote:
>
>>I'm seeking those clips that hold TO-92 cases. They look sorta
>>like the number 9, with the TO-92 going in the donut hole, and
>>the tail having a hole for a mounting screw. They hold the
>>device parallel to the mounting surface.
>>
>>But I am having no luck finding the right term to describe such
>>to Mr. Digikey or Ms Mouser.....Suggestions?
>>
>>I'm open to alternatives; our task is to fasten a temp sensor
>>to a 0.25" OD copper line to sense the fluid temp. within...
>>I planned to solder the clips to the line...
>
>To get serious, solder a thermocouple to the copper pipe.

And sandwich that (short) section of copper pipe between sections of
plastic pipe.

[Joerg]

David Lesher wrote:
> I'm seeking those clips that hold TO-92 cases. They look sorta
> like the number 9, with the TO-92 going in the donut hole, and
> the tail having a hole for a mounting screw. They hold the
> device parallel to the mounting surface.
>
> But I am having no luck finding the right term to describe such
> to Mr. Digikey or Ms Mouser.....Suggestions?
>
> I'm open to alternatives; our task is to fasten a temp sensor
> to a 0.25" OD copper line to sense the fluid temp. within...
> I planned to solder the clips to the line...
>

I believe they are called "transistor clips". Talk to these guys:

http://www.atlee.com/TransistorClips.asp

Careful with beryllium-copper, personally I would not use those.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

[Spehro Pefhany]

On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 10:09:29 -0700, Joerg <inv...@invalid.invalid>
wrote:

How about beryllium-copper with cadmium plating?

[John Larkin]

Why?


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com

http://www.highlandtechnology.com

Precision electronic instrumentation
Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators

Custom laser drivers and controllers

Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links

VME thermocouple, LVDT, synchro acquisition and simulation

[Martin Riddle]

On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 03:45:38 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
<wb8...@panix.com> wrote:

>I'm seeking those clips that hold TO-92 cases. They look sorta
>like the number 9, with the TO-92 going in the donut hole, and
>the tail having a hole for a mounting screw. They hold the
>device parallel to the mounting surface.
>
>But I am having no luck finding the right term to describe such
>to Mr. Digikey or Ms Mouser.....Suggestions?
>
>I'm open to alternatives; our task is to fasten a temp sensor
>to a 0.25" OD copper line to sense the fluid temp. within...
>I planned to solder the clips to the line...

Thats called a 'loop strap'
http://www.mcmaster.com/#loop-straps/=mjaljx

You can try Keystone, RAF too.

Cheers

[Joerg]

Probably ok as long as nobody saws or scrapes. But then one fine day
somebody does ...

[Spehro Pefhany]

On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 12:47:34 -0700, John Larkin
<jla...@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 12:06:54 -0400, Spehro Pefhany
><spef...@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 08:39:21 -0700, John Larkin
>><jjla...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 03:45:38 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher <wb8...@panix.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>I'm seeking those clips that hold TO-92 cases. They look sorta
>>>>like the number 9, with the TO-92 going in the donut hole, and
>>>>the tail having a hole for a mounting screw. They hold the
>>>>device parallel to the mounting surface.
>>>>
>>>>But I am having no luck finding the right term to describe such
>>>>to Mr. Digikey or Ms Mouser.....Suggestions?
>>>>
>>>>I'm open to alternatives; our task is to fasten a temp sensor
>>>>to a 0.25" OD copper line to sense the fluid temp. within...
>>>>I planned to solder the clips to the line...
>>>
>>>To get serious, solder a thermocouple to the copper pipe.
>>
>>And sandwich that (short) section of copper pipe between sections of
>>plastic pipe.
>
>Why?

I'm imagining the copper tube goes through bulkhead fittings, into
tanks, bolted into pumps, held with hangers mounted to metal etc. that
could significantly change the temperature of the tubing relative to
the liquid flowing inside.

If your model is an effectively infinite length of thermally isolated
copper tube with liquid of the same temperature throughout then there
is no need of the insulation I suggested.

[Jamie]

David Lesher wrote:

> I'm seeking those clips that hold TO-92 cases. They look sorta
> like the number 9, with the TO-92 going in the donut hole, and
> the tail having a hole for a mounting screw. They hold the
> device parallel to the mounting surface.
>
> But I am having no luck finding the right term to describe such
> to Mr. Digikey or Ms Mouser.....Suggestions?
>
> I'm open to alternatives; our task is to fasten a temp sensor
> to a 0.25" OD copper line to sense the fluid temp. within...
> I planned to solder the clips to the line...
>

What you need then, is to use those circuit board fuse holders..

you get the size for the 1/4" fuses and you can snap the sensor in the
holder. You can solder this to a copper piece of course.

The URL links are far to long but go to mouser and look for
"Fuse clips" you put two of these on your pipe so that the wires
will hang out on one end and the tip of your sensor will sit in the
other end.


Jamie

[Cydrome Leader]

You forgot the beryllia insulating (electrical) wafer that's ground into a
special shape.

[David Lesher]

John Larkin <jjla...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> writes:


>Moving fluids, especially water, have enormous equivalent thermal
>conductivities, and copper is pretty good, too. Air is a terrible thermal
>conductor. So the surface temp of a copper tube that carries a flowing liquid is
>very close to the liquid temp. The time constants will be very fast.

>Add a little external insulation to do even better.

Exactly our plan. We will not create leak opportunities,
there are enough already. If we wrap the tube+sensor
with insulation, it will be fast enough for our needs.


--
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

[David Lesher]

The fuse clips idea is a good one; we'll look at that.

The sensor will be on a 1-2" long segment of tubing solely
for temperature sensing. The plastic tubing isolates it.
It will be wrapped with insulation against wind.

Yes, it won't be the fastest response, but in this application,
BFD; it will be fine.

We are NOT going to play with thermistors, thermocouples and
other instruments of aggravation and annoyance; I'm in recovery
from same. The Device Gods let us buy I2C and 1-Wire sensors,
and the output is bits.... nice friendly bits.

The 1-Wire vs. I2C decison is more nuanced; I2C has a TO-220
package but the tab is not electrically isolated. 1-Wire has
TO-92's that we can bury in a hole on the busbars. The CPU has
I2C support directly; but there's a I2C to 1-Wire chip that
sounds interesting, the DS2483. Maxim wants $85 for their simple
eval kit - DS2483K# so we'd make our own from a 2483.

[David Lesher]

"JB" <n...@spam.net> writes:


>> I'm seeking those clips that hold TO-92 cases. They look sorta
>> like the number 9, with the TO-92 going in the donut hole, and
>> the tail having a hole for a mounting screw. They hold the
>> device parallel to the mounting surface.

>Keystone do some interesting stamped metal parts.

Looked but don't find a hit on such in their catalog.
`