OT: Rust Stains on Ceramic Floor Tile

[Jim Thompson]

OT: Rust Stains on Ceramic Floor Tile

Giving our money-sink aquarium to the oldest son who's more into
aquariums and maintaining it himself, we find than the steel safety
pan has rusted due to the salt water exposure and left rust stains on
the ceramic floor tile underneath.

Any popular home remedies for cleaning rust stains off the tile?

Thanks!

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

[Phil Hobbs]

On 05/24/2013 03:39 PM, Jim Thompson wrote:
> OT: Rust Stains on Ceramic Floor Tile
>
> Giving our money-sink aquarium to the oldest son who's more into
> aquariums and maintaining it himself, we find than the steel safety
> pan has rusted due to the salt water exposure and left rust stains on
> the ceramic floor tile underneath.
>
> Any popular home remedies for cleaning rust stains off the tile?
>
> Thanks!
>
> ...Jim Thompson
>

Naval Jelly. Works great on bathtubs too.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

[Jim Thompson]

On Fri, 24 May 2013 15:44:39 -0400, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:

>On 05/24/2013 03:39 PM, Jim Thompson wrote:
>> OT: Rust Stains on Ceramic Floor Tile
>>
>> Giving our money-sink aquarium to the oldest son who's more into
>> aquariums and maintaining it himself, we find than the steel safety
>> pan has rusted due to the salt water exposure and left rust stains on
>> the ceramic floor tile underneath.
>>
>> Any popular home remedies for cleaning rust stains off the tile?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> ...Jim Thompson
>>
>
>Naval Jelly. Works great on bathtubs too.
>
>Cheers
>
>Phil Hobbs

Hey, Phil! Thanks! I have some, but didn't know it worked on
anything but metal.

[Phil Hobbs]

On 05/24/2013 03:46 PM, Jim Thompson wrote:
> On Fri, 24 May 2013 15:44:39 -0400, Phil Hobbs
> <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:
>
>> On 05/24/2013 03:39 PM, Jim Thompson wrote:
>>> OT: Rust Stains on Ceramic Floor Tile
>>>
>>> Giving our money-sink aquarium to the oldest son who's more into
>>> aquariums and maintaining it himself, we find than the steel safety
>>> pan has rusted due to the salt water exposure and left rust stains on
>>> the ceramic floor tile underneath.
>>>
>>> Any popular home remedies for cleaning rust stains off the tile?
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> ...Jim Thompson
>>>
>>
>> Naval Jelly. Works great on bathtubs too.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Phil Hobbs
>
> Hey, Phil! Thanks! I have some, but didn't know it worked on
> anything but metal.
>
> ...Jim Thompson
>

It turns ferric iron into ferrous iron, which is much less strongly
coloured, and dissolves most of that.

[Martin Riddle]

On Fri, 24 May 2013 15:49:39 -0400, Phil Hobbs

<pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:

>On 05/24/2013 03:46 PM, Jim Thompson wrote:
>> On Fri, 24 May 2013 15:44:39 -0400, Phil Hobbs
>> <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 05/24/2013 03:39 PM, Jim Thompson wrote:
>>>> OT: Rust Stains on Ceramic Floor Tile
>>>>
>>>> Giving our money-sink aquarium to the oldest son who's more into
>>>> aquariums and maintaining it himself, we find than the steel safety
>>>> pan has rusted due to the salt water exposure and left rust stains on
>>>> the ceramic floor tile underneath.
>>>>
>>>> Any popular home remedies for cleaning rust stains off the tile?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks!
>>>>
>>>> ...Jim Thompson
>>>>
>>>
>>> Naval Jelly. Works great on bathtubs too.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> Phil Hobbs
>>
>> Hey, Phil! Thanks! I have some, but didn't know it worked on
>> anything but metal.
>>
>> ...Jim Thompson
>>
>
>It turns ferric iron into ferrous iron, which is much less strongly
>coloured, and dissolves most of that.
>
>Cheers
>
>Phil Hobbs

I wonder if it will work on Blue Stone ;)
That CLR stuff didn't do a thing on that porous rock.

Cheers

[Michael A. Terrell]

Jim Thompson wrote:
>
> OT: Rust Stains on Ceramic Floor Tile
>
> Giving our money-sink aquarium to the oldest son who's more into
> aquariums and maintaining it himself, we find than the steel safety
> pan has rusted due to the salt water exposure and left rust stains on
> the ceramic floor tile underneath.
>
> Any popular home remedies for cleaning rust stains off the tile?
>
> Thanks!

I spotted this place today, and they have a Rusty, too. ;-)

http://www.jthompsonplumbing.com/

[Jim Thompson]

On Fri, 24 May 2013 15:44:39 -0400, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:

>On 05/24/2013 03:39 PM, Jim Thompson wrote:
>> OT: Rust Stains on Ceramic Floor Tile
>>
>> Giving our money-sink aquarium to the oldest son who's more into
>> aquariums and maintaining it himself, we find than the steel safety
>> pan has rusted due to the salt water exposure and left rust stains on
>> the ceramic floor tile underneath.
>>
>> Any popular home remedies for cleaning rust stains off the tile?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> ...Jim Thompson
>>
>
>Naval Jelly. Works great on bathtubs too.
>
>Cheers
>
>Phil Hobbs

Worked great! I had a 2' x 8' area. Only one tile I have to go back
and scrub some more.

[Helmut Wabnig]

On Fri, 24 May 2013 12:39:56 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-Th...@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

>OT: Rust Stains on Ceramic Floor Tile
>
>Giving our money-sink aquarium to the oldest son who's more into
>aquariums and maintaining it himself, we find than the steel safety
>pan has rusted due to the salt water exposure and left rust stains on
>the ceramic floor tile underneath.
>
>Any popular home remedies for cleaning rust stains off the tile?
>

Phosphoric acid. Rust-converter.
Actually the ironoxides are converted into ironphosphate.

Try Coca Cola.
Ever wondered why they keep their recipe a secret?

w.

[Jasen Betts]

It's no secret that Coca-Cola contains phosphoric acid.
Jolt does too, and Pepsi, it says so on the can.

--
⚂⚃ 100% natural

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ne...@netfront.net ---

[DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno]

On 25 May 2013 10:12:18 GMT, Jasen Betts <ja...@xnet.co.nz> wrote:

>On 2013-05-25, Helmut Wabnig <hwabnig@> wrote:
>> On Fri, 24 May 2013 12:39:56 -0700, Jim Thompson
>><To-Email-Use-Th...@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:
>>
>>>OT: Rust Stains on Ceramic Floor Tile
>>>
>>>Giving our money-sink aquarium to the oldest son who's more into
>>>aquariums and maintaining it himself, we find than the steel safety
>>>pan has rusted due to the salt water exposure and left rust stains on
>>>the ceramic floor tile underneath.
>>>
>>>Any popular home remedies for cleaning rust stains off the tile?
>>>
>> Phosphoric acid. Rust-converter.
>> Actually the ironoxides are converted into ironphosphate.
>>
>> Try Coca Cola.
>> Ever wondered why they keep their recipe a secret?
>
>It's no secret that Coca-Cola contains phosphoric acid.
>Jolt does too, and Pepsi, it says so on the can.

NONE of which are in ANY concentration that could or would have ANY
effect on the degree of oxide caking involved here.

And if was in a concentration in which it *could* eat hard metallic
oxides from hard metal rust processes, what do you think it would do to
biological flesh?

Use some common sense, guys.

[Jim Thompson]

Clear back in high school the favorite demo was to put a piece of beef
in a glass of Coke overnight >:-}

[Robert Macy]

On May 24, 12:39 pm, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-I...@On-

My-Web-Site.com> wrote:
> OT:  Rust Stains on Ceramic Floor Tile
>
> Giving our money-sink aquarium to the oldest son who's more into
> aquariums and maintaining it himself, we find than the steel safety
> pan has rusted due to the salt water exposure and left rust stains on
> the ceramic floor tile underneath.
>
> Any popular home remedies for cleaning rust stains off the tile?
>
> Thanks!
>
>                                         ...Jim Thompson
> --
> | James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     |
> | Analog Innovations                               |     et      |
> | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
> | Phoenix, Arizona  85048    Skype: Contacts Only  |             |
> | Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |

> | E-mail Icon athttp://www.analog-innovations.com|    1962     |

>
> I love to cook with wine.     Sometimes I even put it in the food.

commercial product called, Whink. Mild HF acid. WEAR GLOVES !!!!
Gently put some on, and rust stains disappear. Then, neutralize with
soda. Rinse, and done.

When I used it the first time, no gloves. BIG MISTAKE! About an hour
later the pain under the nails hurt like they were burnt with matches.
Learned the hard way to respect those 'sneak up on you' acids.

[Jim Thompson]

HF is nasty stuff. Never tried it without gloves. Though I did, in
Chem lab, show off by pouring 36-normal sulphuric acid into the palm
of my hand, wait for smoke, then put my hand under a water spigot ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |

| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

[Joe Gwinn]

In article
<d2d48ad1-0984-4760...@z10g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,

Try Zud first. Available from hardware stores.

Active ingredient is Oxalic Acid.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxalic_Acid>

Joe Gwinn

[Jasen Betts]

On 2013-05-25, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DL...@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote:

>
> NONE of which are in ANY concentration that could or would have ANY
> effect on the degree of oxide caking involved here.
>
> And if was in a concentration in which it *could* eat hard metallic
> oxides from hard metal rust processes, what do you think it would do to
> biological flesh?

different acids effect flesh differently

eg: compare sulphuric and hydrochloric acid,

> Use some common sense, guys.

Common sense is frequently an easy way to get the wrong answer.

[Robert Macy]

On May 25, 10:49 am, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-I...@On-

I used to make nitrogen tri-iodide, the world's most unstable
explosive, for colleagues in chem class and then quickly dismantle my
setup, so the instructor would see nothing around when he appeared
with accusation in his eyes. He once even said, "I know you did it."
To which I'd answer, "Why do you always think it's me?" ...oh, those
halcyon days. and we survived them!

[Jim Thompson]

[snip]

>
>I used to make nitrogen tri-iodide, the world's most unstable
>explosive, for colleagues in chem class and then quickly dismantle my
>setup, so the instructor would see nothing around when he appeared
>with accusation in his eyes. He once even said, "I know you did it."
>To which I'd answer, "Why do you always think it's me?" ...oh, those
>halcyon days. and we survived them!

I always wonder how males survive their youth... I've watched my sons
do the same crazy things ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |

| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

[Michael A. Terrell]

Jim Thompson wrote:
>
> I always wonder how males survive their youth... I've watched my sons
> do the same crazy things ;-)

Like making 20 pounds of black powder at a time, and using empty 2 Oz
glass bottles from chemistry sets to make fire crackers? ;-)

[Jim Thompson]

I used basically black powder plus powdered magnesium, or powdered
aluminum... what ever fine metallic I could get my hands on... made a
terrific flash >:-}

[rickman]

Naval Jelly is HCL. CLR is acid, but other acids. They aren't as
strong as HCL (Muratic Acid). What was the stain you were trying to
clean? Obviously they claim CLR will remove rust. Did it not clear
away a rust stain?

--

Rick

[rickman]

HF is very strong acid. We used that to etch glass. No need at all to
use HF for cleaning unless you want to get glass *very* clean, wettable
clean. But then there are other reagents for that too.

--

Rick

[Robert Macy]

On May 26, 8:41 am, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-I...@On-My-

you mean like making
homeade gunpowder [charcoal, sulfur, saltpeter]
gasoline based flamethrowers [at least 30 foot range, but no gel], and
silencers [slightly shot self in middle finger tip while holding
structure over barrel]

[Uwe Hercksen]

Robert Macy schrieb:

> When I used it the first time, no gloves. BIG MISTAKE! About an hour
> later the pain under the nails hurt like they were burnt with matches.
> Learned the hard way to respect those 'sneak up on you' acids.

Hello,

HF is very dangerous:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrofluoric_acid

Bye

[Joe Gwinn]

In article <knue6r$n1g$1...@dont-email.me>, rickman <gnu...@gmail.com>
wrote:

My recollection is that Naval Jelly is Phosphoric Acid, not
Hydrochloric Acid.

Bot will remove rust; the issue is what else they will remove and thus
damage.

Joe Gwinn

[Jim Thompson]

On Mon, 27 May 2013 10:36:20 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joeg...@comcast.net>
wrote:

That is correct.

>
>Both will remove rust; the issue is what else they will remove and thus
>damage.
>
>Joe Gwinn

The Naval Jelly worked a peach, though one spot required a great
amount of "elbow grease" ;-)

[rickman]

Either my recollection is faulty or they changed the formula over the
years. I recall looking at the label some 30+ years ago and noting that
it was HCL. But certainly I could be mistaken.

As you say, either will remove rust and both are rather strong acids.
Highly concentrated phosporic acid is about pH 1.0. I just looked up
the pH of HCl and it's pH is *negative*! I never heard of negative pH
before... lol

Then again, your stomach contents are pH 2.0, so what is "strong" exactly?

--

Rick

[Joe Gwinn]

In article <knvtuu$n66$1...@dont-email.me>, rickman <gnu...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On 5/27/2013 10:36 AM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
> > In article<knue6r$n1g$1...@dont-email.me>, rickman<gnu...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Naval Jelly is HCL. CLR is acid, but other acids. They aren't as
> >> strong as HCL (Muratic Acid). What was the stain you were trying to
> >> clean? Obviously they claim CLR will remove rust. Did it not clear
> >> away a rust stain?
> >
> > My recollection is that Naval Jelly is Phosphoric Acid, not
> > Hydrochloric Acid.
> >

> > Both will remove rust; the issue is what else they will remove and thus

> > damage.
> >
> > Joe Gwinn
>
> Either my recollection is faulty or they changed the formula over the
> years. I recall looking at the label some 30+ years ago and noting that
> it was HCL. But certainly I could be mistaken.

I just looked at the MSDS. It's Phosphoric Acid, plus a dash of
Sulfuric, but no HCl.

> As you say, either will remove rust and both are rather strong acids.
> Highly concentrated phosporic acid is about pH 1.0. I just looked up
> the pH of HCl and it's pH is *negative*! I never heard of negative pH
> before... lol
>
> Then again, your stomach contents are pH 2.0, so what is "strong" exactly?

I don't think pH can be negative: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PH>.

Strong acids are also discussed.

Joe Gwinn

[Martin Riddle]

It's the front porch, with Bluestone steps and casiron railing. The
rust from the railings has stained the bluestone.
The CLR didnt do a thing. Murtic acid might work. But that is nasty
stuff, even at 10%hcl.

Cheers

[Rich Grise]

>
> Then again, your stomach contents are pH 2.0, so what is "strong"
exactly?
>

So, he should puke on the rust stains? ;-)

[Rich Grise]

wrote:

Yeah, that's it! Pour Coke all over the bluestone! ;-)

[Dave Platt]

In article <270520131036201525%joeg...@comcast.net>,

Joe Gwinn <joeg...@comcast.net> wrote:
>In article <knue6r$n1g$1...@dont-email.me>, rickman <gnu...@gmail.com>
>wrote:

>> Naval Jelly is HCL.

>My recollection is that Naval Jelly is Phosphoric Acid, not
>Hydrochloric Acid.

According to the MSDS, you are correct - 10-30% phosphoric acid, a
trace of sulphuric acid, a phosphate ester, isopropanol, and a
polysaccharide gelling agent. Presumably the remainder (non-listed
ingredients) are water and miscellaneous contaminants.

No HCL listed.

--
Dave Platt <dpl...@radagast.org> AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

[P E Schoen]

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
news:SoOdnYaiDN9mfALM...@earthlink.com...

> I spotted this place today, and they have a Rusty, too. ;-)

> http://www.jthompsonplumbing.com/

Jim looks a lot different from what I had imagined:
http://enginuitysystems.com/pix/JimThompson.png

Bobby and Paul are in the picture, but Rusty Thompson is not pictured. Maybe
he was dissolved with Naval Jelly?

I figure JT looks something like Jerry Howe, of dog training infamy:
http://thesimplyamazingpuppywizard.webs.com/TheSimplyAmazingPuppyWizard.jpg

:)

Paul

[Bret Cannon]

"rickman" wrote in message news:knvtuu$n66$1...@dont-email.me...

pH is -log[H+], where [H+] is the concentration of free hydrogen ions
expressed as moles per liter. Concentrated HCl is about 11.0 moles per
liter, so if the HCl is completely dissociated in concentrated HCl, which is
what they teach in freshman chemistry among other gross simplifications,
then the nominal pH of concentrated HCl is -1.04.

Bret Cannon

[Martin Brown]

There is nothing stops the pH being negative it is simply the
log(hydrogen ion concentration ratio)

HCl has a negative pH for any solution of above about 3% wt/wt

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrochloric_acid

HBr and HI are even stronger acids in water but less common.

>
> Strong acids are also discussed.
>
> Joe Gwinn

The original problem of cleaning the rust marks off might also be done
with the less aggressive citric acid available from home brew centres.
The acid isn't strong but it does reduce brown iron(III) to soluble
green iron(II) and is less likely to damage ceramic surface finishes.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

[Joe Gwinn]

In article <6TYot.31467$CG1....@newsfe21.iad>, Martin Brown

Ahh. It's been a long time since I took Chemistry. OK. You might
consider editing the Wiki article.

> > Strong acids are also discussed.
> >
> > Joe Gwinn
>
> The original problem of cleaning the rust marks off might also be done
> with the less aggressive citric acid available from home brew centres.
> The acid isn't strong but it does reduce brown iron(III) to soluble
> green iron(II) and is less likely to damage ceramic surface finishes.

Yes. Ceramics are mostly acid-proof, but surfaces like marble are
another matter.

Oxalic acid is the traditional rust remover. Actually, Bar-Keepers
Friend is oxalic acid, so that might be an easy way to buy the acid.

Joe Gwinn

[Martin Brown]

On 28/05/2013 13:34, Joe Gwinn wrote:
> In article <6TYot.31467$CG1....@newsfe21.iad>, Martin Brown
> <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 27/05/2013 17:32, Joe Gwinn wrote:

>>> I don't think pH can be negative: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PH>.
>>
>> There is nothing stops the pH being negative it is simply the
>> log(hydrogen ion concentration ratio)
>>
>> HCl has a negative pH for any solution of above about 3% wt/wt
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrochloric_acid
>>
>> HBr and HI are even stronger acids in water but less common.
>
> Ahh. It's been a long time since I took Chemistry. OK. You might
> consider editing the Wiki article.

The Wiki article is right in that 1 mol/kg HCl is about 36.5g/kg or
3.65% wt wt which is about pH 0. What it fails to say is that HCl is so
very soluble in water that you can get upto 38% wt wt and pH -1.1.

It is rather difficult to measure this pH accurately in practice as most
kit misreads under extreme pH at either end of the scale.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

[Joe Gwinn]

In article <Sl2pt.31722$CG1....@newsfe21.iad>, Martin Brown

<|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> On 28/05/2013 13:34, Joe Gwinn wrote:
> > In article <6TYot.31467$CG1....@newsfe21.iad>, Martin Brown
> > <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >> On 27/05/2013 17:32, Joe Gwinn wrote:
>
> >>> I don't think pH can be negative: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PH>.
> >>
> >> There is nothing stops the pH being negative it is simply the
> >> log(hydrogen ion concentration ratio)
> >>
> >> HCl has a negative pH for any solution of above about 3% wt/wt
> >>
> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrochloric_acid
> >>
> >> HBr and HI are even stronger acids in water but less common.
> >
> > Ahh. It's been a long time since I took Chemistry. OK. You might
> > consider editing the Wiki article.
>
> The Wiki article is right in that 1 mol/kg HCl is about 36.5g/kg or
> 3.65% wt wt which is about pH 0. What it fails to say is that HCl is so
> very soluble in water that you can get upto 38% wt wt and pH -1.1.

This would be a useful thing to add to the Wiki article, which anybody
can edit.

> It is rather difficult to measure this pH accurately in practice as most
> kit misreads under extreme pH at either end of the scale.

How does one measure this, then? Or is it by analysis only?


Joe Gwinn