Not being able to find a small internet radio to buy we liked, we got mobile phone with which we link with wi-fi to a modem router, and use it as an internet radio.
Keeping the phoned plugged into its charger all the time, we are using it to play *all-day* background classical music through an amplifier and speakers.
Since the phone has no 'moving parts' unlike a computer, we are wondering if this continuous playing all day of the phone is going to shorten its working life ?
> Not being able to find a small internet radio to buy we liked, we got mobile
> phone with which we link with wi-fi to a modem router, and use it as an
> internet radio.
> Keeping the phoned plugged into its charger all the time, we are using it to
> play *all-day* background classical music through an amplifier and speakers.
> Since the phone has no 'moving parts' unlike a computer, we are wondering if
> this continuous playing all day of the phone is going to shorten its working
> life ?
> On 10/2/2012 5:21 PM, jim stone wrote:
>> Not being able to find a small internet radio to buy we liked,
>> we got a mobile phone with which we link with WiFi to a modem
>> router, and use it as an internet radio.
>> Keeping the phoned plugged into its charger all the time, we are
>> using it to play *all-day* background classical music through an
>> amplifier and speakers.
>> Since the phone has no "moving parts" unlike a computer, we are
>> wondering if this continuous playing all day of the phone is going
>> to shorten its working life ?
> Using anything shortens its working life.
Not so. There aren't any obvious failure mechanisms in solid-state devices
(other than dopant migration in high-power output transistors).
It's also true that most mechanical devices "like" moderate use. Letting
anything mechanical "sit" most of the time will probably cause it fail
sooner than if receives regular use.
It's now possible to build computers without moving parts (other than the
optical drives). My new computer has a solid-state "hard disk", and you
wouldn't believe how fast it boots up, or how fast programs start to run.
>>> Not being able to find a small internet radio to buy we liked,
>>> we got a mobile phone with which we link with WiFi to a modem
>>> router, and use it as an internet radio.
>>> Keeping the phoned plugged into its charger all the time, we are
>>> using it to play *all-day* background classical music through an
>>> amplifier and speakers.
>>> Since the phone has no "moving parts" unlike a computer, we are
>>> wondering if this continuous playing all day of the phone is going
>>> to shorten its working life ?
>> Using anything shortens its working life.
> Not so. There aren't any obvious failure mechanisms in solid-state devices
> (other than dopant migration in high-power output transistors).
> It's also true that most mechanical devices "like" moderate use. Letting
> anything mechanical "sit" most of the time will probably cause it fail
> sooner than if receives regular use.
> It's now possible to build computers without moving parts (other than the
> optical drives). My new computer has a solid-state "hard disk", and you
> wouldn't believe how fast it boots up, or how fast programs start to run.
There are many factors that cause something to fail. I you don't use it, it has no working life. I don't wish to play semantics but if you use it you are using up it's working life.
> There are many factors that cause something to fail. I you
> don't use it, it has no working life. I don't wish to play
> semantics but if you use it you are using up its working life.
Not so. With mechanical devices, regular moderate use provides a longer
useful lifetime than using the device only rarely.
William Sommerwerck wrote:
> optical drives). My new computer has a solid-state "hard disk", and you
> wouldn't believe how fast it boots up, or how fast programs start to run.
These, if flash memory, do have a definite wear out mechanism, although they do try to avoid writing to the same spot, even if the software does, to mitigate this.
>> There are many factors that cause something to fail. I you
>> don't use it, it has no working life. I don't wish to play
>> semantics but if you use it you are using up its working life.
> Not so. With mechanical devices, regular moderate use provides a longer
> useful lifetime than using the device only rarely.
On Tuesday, October 2, 2012 2:21:28 PM UTC-7, jim stone wrote:
> Not being able to find a small internet radio to buy we liked, we got mobile
> phone with which we link with wi-fi to a modem router, and use it as an
> internet radio.
> Keeping the phoned plugged into its charger all the time, we are using it to
> play *all-day* background classical music through an amplifier and speakers.
> Since the phone has no 'moving parts' unlike a computer, we are wondering if
> this continuous playing all day of the phone is going to shorten its working
> life ?
How much did you pay for the phone? Would it bother you greatly if it is stolen or if the battery fails to hold a charge, did you get it fairly cheap, did you buy a new mobile phone for regular use and this is an old phone from a previous cellular plan, etc.?
I used to use an old cell phone (well, it was "old" in the sense that I changed cell phone carriers) to play music from the internal microSD card for my plants in my office (a Mythbusters episode showed that plants like music), until the repetition of the songs drove *me* crazy. =)
On Tue, 02 Oct 2012 18:57:07 -0400, Tom Biasi <tombi...@optonline.net>
wrote:
>On 10/2/2012 6:32 PM, William Sommerwerck wrote:
>>> There are many factors that cause something to fail. I you
>>> don't use it, it has no working life. I don't wish to play
>>> semantics but if you use it you are using up its working life.
>> Not so. With mechanical devices, regular moderate use provides a longer
>> useful lifetime than using the device only rarely.
>I don't agree but will say no more.
>Regards,
>Tom
Not sure if my News server supports x-posts to the entire Usenet, but
I digress.
An incandescent light bulb is a good example, If it lasts 1000 hours
when run continuously, its life will be considerably shorter if run
(say) 4 hours a day and the time it is on added up. Equipment with lots of thermionic devices like very early computers
were, as far as practical, never switched off because of the
likelihood of failure.
> An incandescent light bulb is a good example, If it lasts 1000 hours
> when run continuously, its life will be considerably shorter if run
> (say) 4 hours a day and the time it is on added up.
>> An incandescent light bulb is a good example, If it lasts 1000 hours
>> when run continuously, its life will be considerably shorter if run
>> (say) 4 hours a day and the time it is on added up.
> ** Where ever did you get that nonsense from ??
> Some web forum ?
I believe turning the bulbs on and off can induce thermal shock which causes premature failure.
"The common wisdom was that valves—which, like light bulbs, contained a hot glowing filament—could never be used satisfactorily in large numbers, for they were unreliable, and in a large installation too many would fail in too short a time".[13] Tommy Flowers, who later designed Colossus, "discovered that, so long as valves were switched on and left on, they could operate reliably for very long periods, especially if their 'heaters' were run on a reduced current".
> William Sommerwerck wrote:
>> My new computer has a solid-state "hard disk", and you
>> wouldn't believe how fast it boots up, or how fast programs
>> start to run.
> These, if flash memory, do have a definite wear out mechanism,
> although they do try to avoid writing to the same spot, even if the
> software does, to mitigate this.
Correct. SSDs are an exception. They contain "leveling" software that makes
sure the disk is written to evenly. The Crucial disk I use is spec'd at
about 40TB of total writes.
>>> An incandescent light bulb is a good example, If it lasts 1000 hours
>>> when run continuously, its life will be considerably shorter if run
>>> (say) 4 hours a day and the time it is on added up.
>> ** Where ever did you get that nonsense from ??
>> Some web forum ?
> I believe turning the bulbs on and off can induce thermal shock which > causes premature failure.
** Bollocks it does.
There are many applications where incandescent lamps are turned on and off constantly and their life span is the same.
The OP's hypothetical example ( don't ya just LOVE them) is typical of domestic lamp use.
Phil Allison wrote:
> "JoRob64"
>> "Phil Allison"
>>> "Graham."
>>>> An incandescent light bulb is a good example, If it lasts 1000
>>>> hours when run continuously, its life will be considerably shorter
>>>> if run (say) 4 hours a day and the time it is on added up.
>>> ** Where ever did you get that nonsense from ??
>>> Some web forum ?
>> I believe turning the bulbs on and off can induce thermal shock which
>> causes premature failure.
> ** Bollocks it does.
> There are many applications where incandescent lamps are turned on
> and off constantly and their life span is the same.
> The OP's hypothetical example ( don't ya just LOVE them) is typical of
> domestic lamp use.
> Fuckwit.
> .... Phil
No Phil, that is not correct. If he only listens to Rap , its lifespan will
be shortend greatly.
Buffalo
>>>>> An incandescent light bulb is a good example, If it lasts 1000
>>>>> hours when run continuously, its life will be considerably shorter
>>>>> if run (say) 4 hours a day and the time it is on added up.
>>>> ** Where ever did you get that nonsense from ??
>>>> Some web forum ?
>>> I believe turning the bulbs on and off can induce thermal shock which
>>> causes premature failure.
>> ** Bollocks it does.
>> There are many applications where incandescent lamps are turned on
>> and off constantly and their life span is the same.
>> The OP's hypothetical example ( don't ya just LOVE them) is typical of
>> domestic lamp use.
>> Fuckwit.
>> .... Phil
> No Phil, that is not correct. If he only listens to Rap , its lifespan will
> be shortend greatly.
> Buffalo
You shit for brains your ignorance is truly amazing. You are an undercover racist idiot. Go to the Republican side, because you are not fit to be a Democrat.
After Obama wins, Zimmerman will be dealt with next.
On Oct 2, 6:28 pm, "Phil Allison" <phi...@tpg.com.au> wrote:
> "Graham."
> > An incandescent light bulb is a good example, If it lasts 1000 hours
> > when run continuously, its life will be considerably shorter if run
> > (say) 4 hours a day and the time it is on added up.
> ** Where ever did you get that nonsense from ??
> Some web forum ?
He is right, the stresses involved in the turn-on of the bulb each
time is equal to several hours of continuous running. If you cycle a
bulb on and off every few seconds, the total on time before the bulb
fails will be only a few hundered hours for a 1000 hour rated bulb,
On Wed, 3 Oct 2012 09:28:13 +1000, "Phil Allison" <phi...@tpg.com.au>
wrote:
>"Graham."
>> An incandescent light bulb is a good example, If it lasts 1000 hours
>> when run continuously, its life will be considerably shorter if run
>> (say) 4 hours a day and the time it is on added up.
>** Where ever did you get that nonsense from ??
It's not nonsense. The inrush current of a cold filament can shorten
the filament life. That's why light bulbs usually blow up when you
turn them on, not while they're running. The induced magnetic field
also tends to "twang" the filament, which can break the filament if it
were somehow mechanically weakened.
While attending kollege in the 1960's, I worked for a short time as a
non-union projectionist at a movie theater. Besides babysitting the
projectors, I had to deal with the flashing light bulb marquee. I
vaguely recall that there were something like 2000 40 watt light
bulbs. Roughly once per week, my job was to replace the blown bulbs
from a rickety pre-OSHA 20ft wooden ladder, sometimes at night. I
didn't keep count, but every week, we would lose about 20 light bulbs.
Doing the math, that means after about 2 years, ALL the light bulbs
would have been replaced at least once. At 8 hrs run per day, that's
800 hrs lifetime which isn't all that great, especially since we were
running the bulbs at reduced voltage to improve the lifetime. We used
the same bulbs in the theater foyer and lobby, where they were NOT
cycled on and off like the flashing marquee. I rarely replaced those
bulbs and they seemed to last forever.
> Some web forum ?
If you repeat something often enough, it eventually becomes dogma.
> On 10/2/2012 5:21 PM, jim stone wrote:
>> Not being able to find a small internet radio to buy we liked, we got >> mobile
>> phone with which we link with wi-fi to a modem router, and use it as an
>> internet radio.
>> Keeping the phoned plugged into its charger all the time, we are using it >> to
>> play *all-day* background classical music through an amplifier and >> speakers.
>> Since the phone has no 'moving parts' unlike a computer, we are wondering >> if
>> this continuous playing all day of the phone is going to shorten its >> working
>> life ?
> Using anything shortens it's working life.
Seems to go against the whole ethos of exercising. Never get out of bed and live forever ...
> Not being able to find a small internet radio to buy we liked, we got > mobile phone with which we link with wi-fi to a modem router, and use it > as an internet radio.
> Keeping the phoned plugged into its charger all the time, we are using it > to play *all-day* background classical music through an amplifier and > speakers.
> Since the phone has no 'moving parts' unlike a computer, we are wondering > if this continuous playing all day of the phone is going to shorten its > working life ?
You'll have dropped it well before it wears out :-). BTW, a cheap PC speaker set might be handy if you want a little more volume. And you can probably find a decent streaming client if you have your music sitting on a PC somewhere.
William Sommerwerck wrote:
>> There are many factors that cause something to fail. I you
>> don't use it, it has no working life. I don't wish to play
>> semantics but if you use it you are using up its working life.
> Not so. With mechanical devices, regular moderate use provides a longer
> useful lifetime than using the device only rarely.
Yes, this is also true with EM (Electro-Mechanical) devices like pinballs and jukeboxes (and other arcade games)- regular use keeps the contacts on the relays clean from their designed in rubbing action (overtravel). If the machine is not used then the contacts tend to oxidize and not pass electrical current well leading to service calls.
HOWEVER the topic here is a solid state mobile phone - and that device really doesn't care too much if it is on or off as long as it operates in a reasonable temperature range (around 20 - 35C). Chances are it will be obsolete before it fails if it runs cool to the touch.
Heat is the enemy of electronics, mostly capacitors - and their life gets quite short the warmer the operating temperature gets above 50C...just read the spec sheets. Typical electrolytics endurance: - up to 5,000 Hours at 105°C or about 210 days (7 months) running 24/7.
John :-#)#
-- (Please post followups or tech enquiries to the newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Wed, 3 Oct 2012 09:28:13 +1000, "Phil Allison" <phi...@tpg.com.au>
> wrote:
>> "Graham."
>>> An incandescent light bulb is a good example, If it lasts 1000 hours
>>> when run continuously, its life will be considerably shorter if run
>>> (say) 4 hours a day and the time it is on added up.
>> ** Where ever did you get that nonsense from ??
> It's not nonsense. The inrush current of a cold filament can shorten
> the filament life. That's why light bulbs usually blow up when you
> turn them on, not while they're running. The induced magnetic field
> also tends to "twang" the filament, which can break the filament if it
> were somehow mechanically weakened.
> While attending kollege in the 1960's, I worked for a short time as a
> non-union projectionist at a movie theater. Besides babysitting the
> projectors, I had to deal with the flashing light bulb marquee. I
> vaguely recall that there were something like 2000 40 watt light
> bulbs. Roughly once per week, my job was to replace the blown bulbs
> from a rickety pre-OSHA 20ft wooden ladder, sometimes at night. I
> didn't keep count, but every week, we would lose about 20 light bulbs.
> Doing the math, that means after about 2 years, ALL the light bulbs
> would have been replaced at least once. At 8 hrs run per day, that's
> 800 hrs lifetime which isn't all that great, especially since we were
> running the bulbs at reduced voltage to improve the lifetime. We used
> the same bulbs in the theater foyer and lobby, where they were NOT
> cycled on and off like the flashing marquee. I rarely replaced those
> bulbs and they seemed to last forever.
>> Some web forum ?
> If you repeat something often enough, it eventually becomes dogma.
Well-designed lighting circuits provide 'keep-alive' voltage to the filaments to reduce most of the inrush current. Might have put you out of that job though...
John :-#)#
-- (Please post followups or tech enquiries to the newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
> On 10/2/2012 5:21 PM, jim stone wrote:
>> Not being able to find a small internet radio to buy we liked, we got >> mobile
>> phone with which we link with wi-fi to a modem router, and use it as an
>> internet radio.
>> Keeping the phoned plugged into its charger all the time, we are using it >> to
>> play *all-day* background classical music through an amplifier and >> speakers.
>> Since the phone has no 'moving parts' unlike a computer, we are wondering >> if
>> this continuous playing all day of the phone is going to shorten its >> working
>> life ?
In article
<0ae7fdaf-9a45-4fd5-8800-9a6588a7f...@q4g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>,
hr(bob) hofm...@att.net <hrhofm...@att.net> wrote:
> He is right, the stresses involved in the turn-on of the bulb each
> time is equal to several hours of continuous running. If you cycle a
> bulb on and off every few seconds, the total on time before the bulb
> fails will be only a few hundered hours for a 1000 hour rated bulb,
It would be a strange way to rate the life of a lamp - on constantly,
since this pretty well never happens.
Do you find the 'flasher' lamps on your car failing more quickly than
similar lamps which don't flash?
-- *A plateau is a high form of flattery*
Dave Plowman d...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
>>> Not being able to find a small internet radio to buy we liked,
>>> we got a mobile phone with which we link with WiFi to a modem
>>> router, and use it as an internet radio.
>>> Keeping the phoned plugged into its charger all the time, we are
>>> using it to play *all-day* background classical music through an
>>> amplifier and speakers.
>>> Since the phone has no "moving parts" unlike a computer, we are
>>> wondering if this continuous playing all day of the phone is going
>>> to shorten its working life ?
>> Using anything shortens its working life.
>Not so. There aren't any obvious failure mechanisms in solid-state devices
>(other than dopant migration in high-power output transistors).
Yes interesting that especially in high power RF transistors, 'tho I
believe in such cases its paralled emitter connections that start going
open circuit...
>It's also true that most mechanical devices "like" moderate use. Letting
>anything mechanical "sit" most of the time will probably cause it fail
>sooner than if receives regular use.
>It's now possible to build computers without moving parts (other than the
>optical drives). My new computer has a solid-state "hard disk", and you
>wouldn't believe how fast it boots up, or how fast programs start to run.
Indeed they do just got one, not in this machine but very fast indeed.
They still it seems fail though...
