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The way to improve productivity and GDP for all nations
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Al Lal
Dec 12, 2012, 3:06:21 PM12/12/12
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Basic education in the arts and sciences should be completed by the age of 16, which should include not only the standard science, maths, language, history etc., but also basics of finance (so a person can manage his personal finances or operate a business), law (so a person is always aware of his legal rights in all situations), and computers (so a person can take advantage of technology for leisure and business).
Only 2 years of focused education is sufficient to have the background knowledge to become a productive member of society. By 18 young adults can enter the workforce and become professionals like engineers, scientists, accountants etc.
Further education is only necessary for those who wish to do original research and contribute to the advancement of human knowledge. Another 1-2 years of highly specialized education and training is sufficient.
By people entering the workforce earlier, their working life will be lengthened. They will contribute more to the economy. As medical advances continue to lengthen human life, the retirement age should be moved up. It should be linked to average lifespan or age most people can expect to live up to.
I am speaking from experience, as I graduated high school at 16, and attended junior college in Singapore where I mastered intermediate physics, mathematics, and computer science by the age of 18. After that university was a waste of time and I learnt very little (maybe 25% new material), and only spent maybe 25 hours a week attending classes and studying. In my MBA, I did learn some new material, but again I only spent about 30 hours a week on the program. It took 2 years, but should have been done in 1.
Formal education is partly a waste of time, and people should join the workforce at an earlier age. Maybe 10% of my university knowledge was applicable in my careers as an engineer and IT consultant.
We can add 4 years at the bottom and 6 - 11 years at the top, extending the career of an average person by 10 - 15 years. More experienced people are also more productive so we will also see higher productivity by the average person.
Abhinav Lal
Creator & Rebel
"Imagination is more important than knowledge"
-- Albert Einstein
Only 2 years of focused education is sufficient to have the background knowledge to become a productive member of society. By 18 young adults can enter the workforce and become professionals like engineers, scientists, accountants etc.
Further education is only necessary for those who wish to do original research and contribute to the advancement of human knowledge. Another 1-2 years of highly specialized education and training is sufficient.
By people entering the workforce earlier, their working life will be lengthened. They will contribute more to the economy. As medical advances continue to lengthen human life, the retirement age should be moved up. It should be linked to average lifespan or age most people can expect to live up to.
I am speaking from experience, as I graduated high school at 16, and attended junior college in Singapore where I mastered intermediate physics, mathematics, and computer science by the age of 18. After that university was a waste of time and I learnt very little (maybe 25% new material), and only spent maybe 25 hours a week attending classes and studying. In my MBA, I did learn some new material, but again I only spent about 30 hours a week on the program. It took 2 years, but should have been done in 1.
Formal education is partly a waste of time, and people should join the workforce at an earlier age. Maybe 10% of my university knowledge was applicable in my careers as an engineer and IT consultant.
We can add 4 years at the bottom and 6 - 11 years at the top, extending the career of an average person by 10 - 15 years. More experienced people are also more productive so we will also see higher productivity by the average person.
Abhinav Lal
Creator & Rebel
"Imagination is more important than knowledge"
-- Albert Einstein
Rod Speed
Dec 21, 2012, 10:42:16 PM12/21/12
to
Al Lal <alal1...@gmail.com> wrote
> Basic education in the arts and sciences
> should be completed by the age of 16,
Education in the arts and sciences should continue thru
life, essentially because particularly with the sciences, they
change so much over the life of a particular individual.
How computing is done has changed radically in
even just the last 20 years for example with it now
being so easy for anyone who can think of a useful
app to get that idea into a useful app available to
everyone for peanuts with the simpler ideas.
> which should include not only the standard science, maths,
> language, history etc., but also basics of finance (so a person
> can manage his personal finances or operate a business),
I'm not sure its actually possible to teach that to everyone.
Same with maths at a higher level than what a basic calculator can do.
I just don't believe that more than their native language
is necessary for most, even even desirable either.
> law (so a person is always aware
> of his legal rights in all situations),
Makes a lot more sense to use professionals
for the more messy situations legally.
> and computers (so a person can take advantage
> of technology for leisure and business).
But its never going to be feasible to teach that
before they are 16 and have that useful for the
whole of the rest of their lives after 16.
And with much of what you list, it makes a lot more
sense to make it easy for someone who has discovered
they have an interest in something like history or language
to educate themselves in that area rather than try to
stuff all kid's heads with that stuff before they are 16,
when they wont really have much of a clue about the
fundamentals of history etc like the best of them will
when they are much more mentally mature.
> Only 2 years of focused education is sufficient
> to have the background knowledge to become
> a productive member of society.
Depends on the field. It takes much more than that
with engineering, science, medicine and the law,
in fact most of the professions, even writing books.
> By 18 young adults can enter the workforce and become
> professionals like engineers, scientists, accountants etc.
But many of them don't have the mental maturity that's
needed at that age, most obviously with doctors etc.
> Further education is only necessary for those
> who wish to do original research and contribute
> to the advancement of human knowledge.
That's just plain wrong with any fast moving field, most
obviously with computing, medicine, engineering.
> Another 1-2 years of highly specialized
> education and training is sufficient.
Even sillier with medicine alone.
Which just happens to be one of the most important
professions in any modern first and second world country.
> By people entering the workforce earlier,
> their working life will be lengthened.
Not necessarily, they may well choose to stop working
earlier too, particularly in fields where you can get a
very decent standard of living well before you arent
physically capable of doing the work anymore, and
you chose that field for the living standard it will
provide rather than because its something you
would quite happily do for free if you didn't need
to pay off the mortgage and educate the kids etc.
> They will contribute more to the economy.
They certainly wont if they don't get any further
specialised education if they are in computing,
medicine, engineering, finance, etc etc etc.
> As medical advances continue to lengthen human
> life, the retirement age should be moved up.
It has to some extent, particularly now that
so much of the very heavy work is done by
machines and you don't see so many stop
working because they cant do the work anymore.
> It should be linked to average lifespan or
> age most people can expect to live up to.
What matters isnt the age they can be expect
to live up to, it's the age at which they are still
capable of doing as good a job as say a doctor
in their 40s is etc.
There are plenty of people who just arent capable
of even doing basic stuff like email etc who are not
really much use at all to any employer, even if they
are still physically capable of showing up every day.
> I am speaking from experience,
But you have no real experience of how productivity
would end up with if the whole of society was to do
things the way you happened to do things, particularly
with fields that you know very little about like medicine.
> as I graduated high school at 16, and attended junior
> college in Singapore where I mastered intermediate physics,
> mathematics, and computer science by the age of 18.
Computing alone has changed radically since then.
Medicine in spades.
> After that university was a waste of time
It wasn't for me and hordes of other professionals.
> and I learnt very little (maybe 25% new material),
University isnt just about what new material you learn.
> and only spent maybe 25 hours a week attending
> classes and studying. In my MBA, I did learn some
> new material, but again I only spent about 30 hours
> a week on the program. It took 2 years, but should
> have been done in 1.
And that's just not feasible with medicine or engineering.
> Formal education is partly a waste of time,
Yes, for the best of us, its really only a way of demonstrating
to a potential employer that you have covered the area that
they want to employ you in.
But that's crucial for some fields like medicine where the
last thing we need productivity wise is someone who has
skimmed the net doing major surgery etc when they think
that they understand whats involved and they don't.
> and people should join the workforce at an earlier age.
I'm not convinced with some fields like medicine.
I'm not even convinced with a lot of finance,
just because stupid kids who haven't got a
fucking clue what it was like in the last major
recession believe they know it all, and don't.
In fact we don't even do it that way with the military,
just use the stupid know it all kids as cannon fodder
because they are oh so sure that they know it all.
We don't use them to decide how major military
campaigns are done, even if they are absolutely
sure they know how to do those much better
than any of the old farts with scrambled egg
on their hats.
> Maybe 10% of my university knowledge was applicable
> in my careers as an engineer and IT consultant.
In fact none of mine was, but its different medicine for example.
> We can add 4 years at the bottom and 6 - 11 years at the top,
That varys with the field with the top.
We still don't do that with the military, for a reason.
> extending the career of an average person by 10 - 15 years.
Not everyone wants that.
> More experienced people are also more productive so
> we will also see higher productivity by the average person.
Like hell we will if they have no more education at all
past 18 with some fields like medicine and computing.
> Basic education in the arts and sciences
> should be completed by the age of 16,
life, essentially because particularly with the sciences, they
change so much over the life of a particular individual.
How computing is done has changed radically in
even just the last 20 years for example with it now
being so easy for anyone who can think of a useful
app to get that idea into a useful app available to
everyone for peanuts with the simpler ideas.
> which should include not only the standard science, maths,
> language, history etc., but also basics of finance (so a person
> can manage his personal finances or operate a business),
Same with maths at a higher level than what a basic calculator can do.
I just don't believe that more than their native language
is necessary for most, even even desirable either.
> law (so a person is always aware
> of his legal rights in all situations),
for the more messy situations legally.
> and computers (so a person can take advantage
> of technology for leisure and business).
before they are 16 and have that useful for the
whole of the rest of their lives after 16.
And with much of what you list, it makes a lot more
sense to make it easy for someone who has discovered
they have an interest in something like history or language
to educate themselves in that area rather than try to
stuff all kid's heads with that stuff before they are 16,
when they wont really have much of a clue about the
fundamentals of history etc like the best of them will
when they are much more mentally mature.
> Only 2 years of focused education is sufficient
> to have the background knowledge to become
> a productive member of society.
with engineering, science, medicine and the law,
in fact most of the professions, even writing books.
> By 18 young adults can enter the workforce and become
> professionals like engineers, scientists, accountants etc.
needed at that age, most obviously with doctors etc.
> Further education is only necessary for those
> who wish to do original research and contribute
> to the advancement of human knowledge.
obviously with computing, medicine, engineering.
> Another 1-2 years of highly specialized
> education and training is sufficient.
Which just happens to be one of the most important
professions in any modern first and second world country.
> By people entering the workforce earlier,
> their working life will be lengthened.
earlier too, particularly in fields where you can get a
very decent standard of living well before you arent
physically capable of doing the work anymore, and
you chose that field for the living standard it will
provide rather than because its something you
would quite happily do for free if you didn't need
to pay off the mortgage and educate the kids etc.
> They will contribute more to the economy.
specialised education if they are in computing,
medicine, engineering, finance, etc etc etc.
> As medical advances continue to lengthen human
> life, the retirement age should be moved up.
so much of the very heavy work is done by
machines and you don't see so many stop
working because they cant do the work anymore.
> It should be linked to average lifespan or
> age most people can expect to live up to.
to live up to, it's the age at which they are still
capable of doing as good a job as say a doctor
in their 40s is etc.
There are plenty of people who just arent capable
of even doing basic stuff like email etc who are not
really much use at all to any employer, even if they
are still physically capable of showing up every day.
> I am speaking from experience,
would end up with if the whole of society was to do
things the way you happened to do things, particularly
with fields that you know very little about like medicine.
> as I graduated high school at 16, and attended junior
> college in Singapore where I mastered intermediate physics,
> mathematics, and computer science by the age of 18.
Medicine in spades.
> After that university was a waste of time
> and I learnt very little (maybe 25% new material),
> and only spent maybe 25 hours a week attending
> classes and studying. In my MBA, I did learn some
> new material, but again I only spent about 30 hours
> a week on the program. It took 2 years, but should
> have been done in 1.
> Formal education is partly a waste of time,
to a potential employer that you have covered the area that
they want to employ you in.
But that's crucial for some fields like medicine where the
last thing we need productivity wise is someone who has
skimmed the net doing major surgery etc when they think
that they understand whats involved and they don't.
> and people should join the workforce at an earlier age.
I'm not even convinced with a lot of finance,
just because stupid kids who haven't got a
fucking clue what it was like in the last major
recession believe they know it all, and don't.
In fact we don't even do it that way with the military,
just use the stupid know it all kids as cannon fodder
because they are oh so sure that they know it all.
We don't use them to decide how major military
campaigns are done, even if they are absolutely
sure they know how to do those much better
than any of the old farts with scrambled egg
on their hats.
> Maybe 10% of my university knowledge was applicable
> in my careers as an engineer and IT consultant.
> We can add 4 years at the bottom and 6 - 11 years at the top,
We still don't do that with the military, for a reason.
> extending the career of an average person by 10 - 15 years.
> More experienced people are also more productive so
> we will also see higher productivity by the average person.
past 18 with some fields like medicine and computing.
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