JSH's next breakthrough
Tim Smith
Those dazzled by his breakthroughs in factoring and FLT who are eager to
see what his next breakthrough will be might find
comp.lang.java.programmer interesting. JSH has started posting there
about his new project: solving the traveling salesman problem.
--
--Tim Smith
Gib Bogle
In Java? LOL
Boon
Solving for 10 million cities would not be much faster in optimized
assembly than in Java :-)
Unless JSH has made /another/ break through.
Gordon Burditt
Yes, JSH has made another break through. He's going to reduce the
number of cities in the problem by reducing the cities to radioactive
rubble. Oh, wait, that's GWB's solution.
Actually, I think the traveling salesman problem needs to be re-worded
so for N cities it also involves avoiding N jealous husbands.
connie
The traveling salesman problem in the real world: Shortest path
connecting all sites with farmer's daughters.
Mensanator
Or sons.
Rolf
"Boon" <root@localhost> wrote in message
news:487da5f1$0$10396$426a...@news.free.fr...
I am sure JSH can optomize two cities, but his discovery will not be able to
do 3 or more.
Hendrik Boom
>
> Actually, I think the travelling salesman problem needs to be re-worded
> so for N cities it also involves avoiding N jealous husbands.
So far in this thread there's been a reference to farmers' daughters, and
to jealous husbands. Evidently there are some aspects to the travelling
salesman problem I'm not aware of. Could anyone enlighten me?
-- hendrik
Gib Bogle
It's an issue of ridiculous time vs. ludicrous time.
Joshua Cranmer
I am not an expert, and I certainly don't think that he should be an
object so degraded that one can only laugh at him.
In any case, my personal evaluation is that
a) He is looking for P = NP.
b) He has discovered (or will shortly) a version of bidirectional search
for TSP that he is going to try to tweak to get P = NP (which should be
fruitless; you can read my full response to see why).
c) He will, alas, not find that P = NP. I have some experience, maybe
more than he does, on the area; I believe P = NP for various personal
reasons, but I also don't believe I or anyone else will solve it for at
least 50 years.
In short, the same old: going down fruitless paths for research in an
area where existing results are good enough for general use.
David Bernier
And JSH might claim that he could do better than anyone else at solving
special
instances of the Halting Problem, and could compute Omega to a thousand
digits in about a month...
Mensanator
There were these 3 traveling salesmen:
Jimmy, the fertilizer salesman
Stevie, the seed salesman
Harry, the tractor salesman
They traveled together to save money.
One day, they had a rough time convincing a
farmer to buy their products. By the time the
deals were closed, the sun had already set
and they lamented being able to find a place
to stay for the night.
The farmer offered them his barn to sleep in
as the only beds in his house were occupied by
him and his wife and that of his young daughter,
Betty-Lou. They gladly accept knowing how far
they are from the nearest town.
In the middle of the night, Harry leaves the
hay loft and mkes a run to the outhouse.
Only to find Betty-Lou sitting there when he
opens the door.
The two return to the hay loft, nudge, nudge.
Next morning at the crack of dawn, the farmer
comes out to the barn and informs the salesmen
his wife is whipping up a big batch of hotcakes
and if they go pick some fruit while he milks the
cows, they can all sit down to a nice hearty
breakfast.
Harry arrives back at the kitchen first with a big
basket of blueberries.
Only to find the farmer pointing a cocked,
double-barrel shotgun at him!
"Take those bleberries and shove them up your ass!",
he orders.
When Stevie arrives with a basket of cherries,
he, too, is forced to shove them up his ass.
Stevie and Harry glance at each other and begin
to snicker. "What's so damned funny?", demands
the farmer.
In unison, they reply:
"Jimmy's out picking watermelons."
>
> -- hendrik
Mensanator
Actually, Jimmy is probably better off on
a fruitless path (see my explanation of the
Traveling Slaesman Problem to Hendrik Boom).
g
perhaps the problem he should be working on is how to construct an
optimal posting schedule across newsgroups to minimize ridicule. this
would presumably be a function of membership expertise, turnover, and
overlap, as well as overall traffic volume - and of course the subject
would have to be within JSH's preferred domain of crankery.
evidently he hasn't solved that one yet...
-g
junoexpress
> hay loft and mkes a run to the outhouse.
> Only to find Betty-Lou sitting there when he
> opens the door.
> The two return to the hay loft, nudge, nudge.
>
the vine, so to speak ;>).
M
Mensanator
> > In the middle of the night, Harry leaves the
> > hay loft and mkes a run to the outhouse.
> > Only to find Betty-Lou sitting there when he
> > opens the door.
> > The two return to the hay loft, nudge, nudge.
>
> What did Steve and Jimmy do?
Read the last sentence. Harry and Betty-Lou both
went back to the hay loft where you can assume
Jimmy and Stevie were waiting.
> Seems like only Harry tasted the fruit of
> the vine, so to speak ;>).
I was trying to paint the picture of a 4-way roll
in the hay. I didn't want to get too explicit,
I figured you'd get it from the "nudge, nudge".
Google for "triple-penetration" if you still don't
get it. Don't blame me for what you find.
I don't remember how the original joke went (I heard it
40 years ago). The only detail I recall is that there
were 3 being punished and that the last was picking
watermelons. All the rest I just made up.
Anyway, I think "Jimmy's out picking watermelons" is the
perfect way to describe JSH's attempt to solve The
Traveling Salesman Problem.
>
> M
mike3
I've still yet to see JSH's FIRST breakthrough.
He hasn't made ANY "breakthroughs" so far.
mike3
Why? What would be so bad about _real_ breakthoughs, anyway?
Mensanator
That was a joke. If he finds no fruit he won't have
to shove them up his ass. OTOH, if he tackles a
watermelon-sized problem like the Traveling Salesman,
he's going to end up with quite a grimace on his face.
As soon as I read he was going after TTSP, I literally
thought: "Jimmy's out picking watermelons".
Again.
porky_...@my-deja.com
> I am not an expert, and I certainly don't think that he should be an
> object so degraded that one can only laugh at him.
>
well, than, leave all the degrading and laugh to the experts. :-)
junoexpress
> On Jul 17, 2:41 pm, junoexpress <MTBrenne...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > In the middle of the night, Harry leaves the
> > > hay loft and mkes a run to the outhouse.
> > > Only to find Betty-Lou sitting there when he
> > > opens the door.
> > > The two return to the hay loft, nudge, nudge.
>
> > What did Steve and Jimmy do?
>
> Read the last sentence. Harry and Betty-Lou both
> went back to the hay loft where you can assume
> Jimmy and Stevie were waiting.
>
> > Seems like only Harry tasted the fruit of
> > the vine, so to speak ;>).
>
> I was trying to paint the picture of a 4-way roll
> in the hay. I didn't want to get too explicit,
> I figured you'd get it from the "nudge, nudge".
> Google for "triple-penetration" if you still don't
> get it. Don't blame me for what you find.
>
You learn something new every day....
Thanks
;>) --8
M
Rolf
"junoexpress" <MTBre...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:c2003410-3e33-491e...@e53g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
you gotta picka T
then picka a
then picka k
then picka n
then picka p
then solve-ed the old time equation Tn = a +k mod nt
or something like it.
then you done the "JSH stufshuffle"
Picka Choo!!
Blue
> "junoexpress" <MTBrenne...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Wow! That's amazing Bill. You can ponder on equations with the best of
them, yet you can't clean the shitstains out of your own underwear.
lol!
Michael Press
<adb52dc7-a789-484b...@p25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
Mensanator <mensa...@aol.com> wrote:
[...]
>
> "Jimmy's out picking watermelons."
So that's it. It was not funny the first time I heard it,
because he was supposedly picking pineapples.
--
Michael Press
Blue
I'm sure he can do with his pinky finger, what you wish you could with
yours. Except he's solving problems. You're just sticking it up your
ass, as usual.
David C. Ullrich
<Pidg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Tim Smith wrote:
>> Those dazzled by his breakthroughs in factoring and FLT who are eager to
>> see what his next breakthrough will be might find
>> comp.lang.java.programmer interesting. JSH has started posting there
>> about his new project: solving the traveling salesman problem.
>
>I am not an expert, and I certainly don't think that he should be an
>object so degraded that one can only laugh at him.
Look up his posts to sci.math for the last ten years on google.
Make certain not to miss any. When you're done, shouldn't
take more than a few months, let us know whether your
opiion has changed.
>In any case, my personal evaluation is that
>a) He is looking for P = NP.
>b) He has discovered (or will shortly) a version of bidirectional search
>for TSP that he is going to try to tweak to get P = NP (which should be
>fruitless; you can read my full response to see why).
>c) He will, alas, not find that P = NP. I have some experience, maybe
>more than he does, on the area; I believe P = NP for various personal
>reasons, but I also don't believe I or anyone else will solve it for at
>least 50 years.
>
>In short, the same old: going down fruitless paths for research in an
>area where existing results are good enough for general use.
David C. Ullrich
"Understanding Godel isn't about following his formal proof.
That would make a mockery of everything Godel was up to."
(John Jones, "My talk about Godel to the post-grads."
in sci.logic.)
jack
Thank you for your sincere apology "blue",
but you still gonna have to suck out your own shitstains outta your own
brown-crusty undies, if you can get them off.
"Blue" <rainbowb...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2503ed35-deb7-4cf3...@f1g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
<snip> Picka Choo!!
Blue
> Thank you for your sincere apology "blue",
> but you still gonna have to suck out your own shitstains outta your own
> brown-crusty undies, if you can get them off.
>
>
> news:2503ed35-deb7-4cf3...@f1g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
>
> <snip> Picka Choo!!
>
> >Wow! That's amazing Bill. You can ponder on equations with the best of
> >them, yet you can't clean the shitstains out of your own underwear.
> >lol!
lol! billy, rolf, biggues, etc...
I'm not too sure that you are sure exactly who you really are at this
point.
All these fake handles...funny you talking about attention, billy.
you seem to be begging for it...
loving you, bill!
mike3
Why, if he did find something real, would he have to
"shove it up his !!!" as you so crudely put it?
mike3
> On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 22:01:33 -0400, Joshua Cranmer
>
> >Tim Smith wrote:
> >> Those dazzled by his breakthroughs in factoring and FLT who are eager to
> >> see what his next breakthrough will be might find
> >> comp.lang.java.programmer interesting. JSH has started posting there
> >> about his new project: solving the traveling salesman problem.
>
> >I am not an expert, and I certainly don't think that he should be an
> >object so degraded that one can only laugh at him.
>
> Look up his posts to sci.math for the last ten years on google.
> Make certain not to miss any. When you're done, shouldn't
> take more than a few months, let us know whether your
> opiion has changed.
>
I don't laugh at him as a person as I think that is wrong and 2 wrongs
don't make a right, however I do sometimes laugh at his silly ideas,
esp. when they're proven to be bunk. Actually, it's not so much the
ideas
either (wrong ideas aren't so often amusing to me, they're just
wrong),
but all the grandstanding and stuff that he puts on top of them,
claiming
to have a "REVOLUTIONARY" new whatever and yet he has nothing at
all but a pile of garbage. And it just sounds funny and comedic.
Although I think even laughing *at him* is probably the mildest thing
that I've
seen done here -- some people here get very crude and use sad, sad
language
that makes me pine for the state of our world. Interesting general
observation:
It seems when one persion does wrong (here, James Harris, and the
"wrong" is
all this grandstanding, arrogance and egotism over these crap ideas)
he incites
others to wrong too, and a vicious circle is created. Indeed, it seems
one's
own actions really do shape the world one lives in... This is not just
a bunch of
hooey, it is provable fact, and the proof is right here.
I'm wondering: when you (in general, i.e. this group) tell James to go
away do
you really mean it, and if so why, considering you also seem so
entertained by
his arrogance, dumb ideas, etc.?
Mensanator
Jimmy has found plenty of real things, like
a prime counting algorithm. The joke is not
about finding them, it's what you do with them
afterwards.
Jimmy's stuff either originates in his ass or
eventually finds a home there.
David C. Ullrich
wrote:
"this group" doesn't do anything - various individuals in the
group do. For my own part, youi're never seen me tell him
to go away.
Douglas Eagleson
wrote:
> Those dazzled by his breakthroughs in factoring and FLT who are eager to
> see what his next breakthrough will be might find
> comp.lang.java.programmer interesting. JSH has started posting there
> about his new project: solving the traveling salesman problem.
>
> --Tim Smith
Abstract the distance and apply a Java class called "found". A pair
to test was always the mistaken assumption. A distance between point
to test applied the matrix element while abstract distance applies all
length.
Given ABCD as distance points.
A shortest path was
A C D
B
Given the above diagram find the shortest distance.
Place abstracted length between A and D, simply draw a line
---A-----C--------D-----------------
B
Apply matrix element as distance to all points, Use an X,Y grid
A= (0,0)
B=(2,2)
C= (2,0)
D=(4.5,0)
A shortest path ALWAYS has the abstracted dimensional transfrom as a
minimum. Given X,Y axis abstract the Y axis as an acceleration of X.
X- length
y- DX/Dt
Given Dx/dt we invert the issue. Find the longst time and a shortest
path appears.
Time A-C is zero acceleration. Allow a minum acceleration as a small
value. So at Y=0 we use a= 1 m/s^2.
A-C equalts 2m -> F(a) = time(A-C)
A-B equal A() F(a) =time (A-B)
Allow the Y distance value to always equate time only. I use a
transfrom here now to allow all time a distance.
Leg- 2 x
leg-2 y
time for y = A constant acceleration change over y=2 allows all
distance. SO acceleration goes from the minimum 1 to 2
SO time A-D is a small boat in the stream inverted issue.
I forget how do do that issue. BUt the outcome is a vector as the
elemental change to all distance.
A- 0
B- 2
C-0
D-0
A single accelerative vector appears to denote the change in any path
as a stream and arbitary bank issue. So allow all paths and find out
that the abstract distance as the allowable minimum was inverted to
the maximum. Making the direct trip as leg y +, leg y - distance
along line and back to D.
So the line goes
0,2
leg+y
leg-y
2,4.5
*
A--------------------D
|
|
B
Allowing all vector plot of act on all solution to be stated.
B= 2
And all distance equated to time.
Inverting once more to a simple matrix of distance.
Leg *,2 allows all travel to be minumized.
Select the set of smallest (*,distance y)
All you have to do is equate Y as N a complete set. And prove time as
minumizable. A type of proof also now outlined.
It is NOT a set as a minimum type, I transformed y to time and back as
proof. So the issue of proof appear time distance transform as a N
type solution.
And the method will be stated in an upcoming reply posting.
Joshua Cranmer
> On Jul 18, 7:15 am, David C. Ullrich <dullr...@sprynet.com> wrote:
>> Look up his posts to sci.math for the last ten years on google.
>> Make certain not to miss any. When you're done, shouldn't take more
>> than a few months, let us know whether your opiion has changed.
I've read most of his posts for the past year. I've not studied much in
terms of factoring, but I have unassuaged doubts with his algorithm, and
I'm not convinced that the basic idea is fruitful.
> I don't laugh at him as a person as I think that is wrong and 2
> wrongs don't make a right, however I do sometimes laugh at his silly
> ideas, esp. when they're proven to be bunk. Actually, it's not so
> much the ideas either (wrong ideas aren't so often amusing to me,
> they're just wrong), but all the grandstanding and stuff that he puts
> on top of them, claiming to have a "REVOLUTIONARY" new whatever and
> yet he has nothing at all but a pile of garbage. And it just sounds
> funny and comedic.
A view which roughly mirrors my own. He is likely an intelligent person,
at least in an academic sense (cue joke on an inverse relationship
between IQ and common sense), certainly smarter than many people here
will give him credit for; his primary foible with regards to criticism
is one which many people share.
The problem, though, is the grandstanding. My general impression is
that, if you were to strip all that away, he would be a person with whom
you could share a very pleasant discussion over, say, coffee. This is a
rather unique characteristic among the many who have become targets of
ridicule in newsgroups.
> Interesting general observation: It seems when one persion does wrong
> (here, James Harris, and the "wrong" is all this grandstanding,
> arrogance and egotism over these crap ideas) he incites others to
> wrong too, and a vicious circle is created.
Indeed. I have pontificated a bit on this idea in c.l.j.p, but I urge
you /not/ to respond there, since it is a topic well beyond OT.
Angus Rodgers
<Pidg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>I've read most of his posts for the past year.
Get help.
:-)
--
Angus Rodgers
(twirlip@ eats spam; reply to angusrod@)
Contains mild peril
mike3
And so what does he do with them then? ANd how does it make it
all useless? (unless the "Real" things are not actually _better_
than what already exists -- e.g. "surrogate factoring" being just
warmed-over Fermat's method or something (I think that was one
thing I heard about it))
mike3
> On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 21:03:46 -0700 (PDT), mike3 <mike4...@yahoo.com>
Oh, so you do like the "entertainment" provided by his cranky
stuff, then?
Rotwang
> On Jul 26, 6:34 am, David C. Ullrich <dullr...@sprynet.com> wrote:
>
>
> > "this group" doesn't do anything - various individuals in the
> > group do. For my own part, youi're never seen me tell him
> > to go away.
>
> Oh, so you do like the "entertainment" provided by his cranky
> stuff, then?
Can't speak for David, but I do.
mike3
Hmm.
> > Interesting general observation: It seems when one persion does wrong
> > (here, James Harris, and the "wrong" is all this grandstanding,
> > arrogance and egotism over these crap ideas) he incites others to
> > wrong too, and a vicious circle is created.
>
> Indeed. I have pontificated a bit on this idea in c.l.j.p, but I urge
> you /not/ to respond there, since it is a topic well beyond OT.
Alright, I won't. But glad to hear that you agree with this.
Lits O'Hate
So do I.
Mensanator
Comes the dawn.
> -- e.g. "surrogate factoring" being just
> warmed-over Fermat's method or something (I think that was one
> thing I heard about it))
>
>
>
> > Jimmy's stuff either originates in his ass or
> > eventually finds a home there.
>
> > > > As soon as I read he was going after TTSP, I literally
> > > > thought: "Jimmy's out picking watermelons".
>
> > > > Again.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
junoexpress
>
> A view which roughly mirrors my own. He is likely an intelligent person,
> at least in an academic sense (cue joke on an inverse relationship
> between IQ and common sense), certainly smarter than many people here
> will give him credit for; his primary foible with regards to criticism
> is one which many people share.
>
board, most people react negatively to criticism, especially so when
it comes from a group of your peers. Even though a person may have
enough presence of mind, sophistication, and maturity not to give an
overt sign that the criticism affects them, it does. Now this part, a
mentally healthy person *would* have in common with James. But this is
where the similarity stops, and a much larger distinction sets in. A
mentally healthy person understands the Taoist saying that "wisdom is
what one gets when the pain is gone", and they react in a positive way
to the criticism and grow from it. A person who is not mentally
healthy, will harbor a grudge and gain hatred against those who made
the criticism. However, most of them still have enough on the ball to
realize that their reaction is *wrong* and so they won't act out
publicly. However some people get to the point where their mental
health has so deteriorated that they lack the normal ability most
people have to see that their reaction is wrong. This state of mind is
so warped that no matter how rationally the criticism is made or how
many times they receive this criticism from others, they still persist
in believeing they are right, the others are wrong, and the others are
out to get them. This is James.
> The problem, though, is the grandstanding. My general impression is
> that, if you were to strip all that away, he would be a person with whom
> you could share a very pleasant discussion over, say, coffee. This is a
> rather unique characteristic among the many who have become targets of
> ridicule in newsgroups.
>
I don't know how one could have a pleasant conversation with someone
who is totally closed minded and thinks they are always right. Not my
idea of fun, but to each their own I guess.
M
Gib Bogle
> Comes the dawn.
I had too much to dream last night, too much to dream ...
David C. Ullrich
wrote:
>On Jul 26, 6:34 am, David C. Ullrich <dullr...@sprynet.com> wrote:
Giggle. You _don't_ find it entertaining when he explains
that all the math professors are going to be fired when the
Truth comes out? When he states that the Future of
Civilization As We Know It depends on people accepting
his greatness?
mike3
> On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 11:15:05 -0700 (PDT), mike3 <mike4...@yahoo.com>
<snip>
> >Oh, so you do like the "entertainment" provided by his cranky
> >stuff, then?
>
> Giggle. You _don't_ find it entertaining when he explains
> that all the math professors are going to be fired when the
> Truth comes out? When he states that the Future of
> Civilization As We Know It depends on people accepting
> his greatness?
It *is* funny when you go and contrast it with just how *wrong*
his "theories" or "discoveries" are.
mike3
> > A view which roughly mirrors my own. He is likely an intelligent person,
> > at least in an academic sense (cue joke on an inverse relationship
> > between IQ and common sense), certainly smarter than many people here
> > will give him credit for; his primary foible with regards to criticism
> > is one which many people share.
>
> You're confusing two very different levels of reaction. Across the
> board, most people react negatively to criticism, especially so when
May I step in here?
One thing is, I don't really have too much of a problem with
criticism, ~if~
that criticism is founded on logic and does not consist of vulgar
attacks
or anything like that. Say I propose a theory, I don't know, just a
theory.
If someone comes out and gives a criticism of it, then I'd have a look
at it.
I'd get mad if they tried to attack me as a person with names or
something,
or if they just call the theory "stupid" or something, without giving
exactly
and precisely what is wrong. Criticism should be ~useful~ -- so that
one
can _address_ the problem the criticism is directed at. Useless
criticisms,
attacks, etc. are things that I get ticked off at.
I'm not sure though about other people.
> But this is
> where the similarity stops, and a much larger distinction sets in. A
> mentally healthy person understands the Taoist saying that "wisdom is
> what one gets when the pain is gone", and they react in a positive way
> to the criticism and grow from it.
I'd think so. If the criticism is good, that is. I'd react in a bad
way to a useless
criticism like a personal attack.
> A person who is not mentally
> healthy, will harbor a grudge and gain hatred against those who made
> the criticism.
And then that will cause those people around them to become hating and
they
to succumb to evil *too*, and that will cause the people around *them*
to succumb
to more evil, and so on -- and as you can see, the initial evil (that
hatred you
mentioned) creates more evil... This is really what it means when it
is said that
one's action shapes the world around them. This is why it is best not
to do the
evil in the first place.
> However some people get to the point where their mental
> health has so deteriorated that they lack the normal ability most
> people have to see that their reaction is wrong.
And it was only by their own free will -- their choice to dig in those
heels and
corrupt their mind.
> I don't know how one could have a pleasant conversation with someone
> who is totally closed minded and thinks they are always right. Not my
> idea of fun, but to each their own I guess.
That's the whole point of "letting it go" -- not having the
conversation and dropping
out. If they do not wish to concede, then that is a signal to go. They
_cannot_
be made to. It is a product of free will -- they have _chosen_, out of
their own
free will of which they and they alone have complete control, not to
accept or
learn from the criticism. Proceeding from a rational criticism to
personal attacks
will not make it better -- as then it turns into a fight. In addition,
it is perpetuating
the evil.